Tracy5 Says:

#136

“Schools are confusing equal treatment with equitable treatment. . . . Kids in middle school and high school care most about fairness. When they see two students whose ‘offenses’ are vastly different being treated exactly the same, that sense of fairness is obliterated and replaced with fear and alienation.”

Exactly my point! Thank you. This quote show exactly how parents push this BS relativism when it comes to things like stealing and lying. Are you saying it would be appropriate to tell your children it’s bad the you stole that 5 cent piece of gum, but it far worse if you stole the $100 dollars out of your grandfather’s wallet?

Very odd. Somehow T-5 read this passage:

When they see two students whose ‘offenses’ are vastly different being treated exactly the same, that sense of fairness is obliterated and replaced with fear and alienation.

and saw something that made his point.

Did he think this was some parent being quoted pushing “this BS relativism”? If so, it shows that he obviously didn’t follow the link and read the report.

Or did he just badly mis-read what was written and somehow convince himself that replacing a sense of fairness with “fear and alienation” is something to be pursued?

Very odd indeed.

I think belac is right. T-5 appears to be a lost cause. I too feel for those poor children, trying to grow up under the misguided tutelage of such a father.

Just don’t tie them to a tree when they misbehave, okay, T-5?

belac Says:
Good-day to you Tracy… I would like to take this opportunity to extend my condolences to your children, should you have any, as you sound like a real hard-*ss and unprepared parent.

I suspect that it’s mostly bluster now that you’ve painted yourself into this ‘moral relativism’ corner but your unwillingness to change your mind also does not bode well for your children’s future…

hopefully they won’t be to terribly mal-adjusted and can someday learn to forgive you… and see the frightened sheep inside of you that can’t EVER be wrong… I see him now and won’t challenge, or talk to you again… here’s hoping.

Well, belac, there’s always the chance that his kids will one day have had enough and will brutally beat T-5 with baseball bats and douse his body with lighter fluid.

That sometimes happens with hard-a$$, unforgiving parents.

Then again, sometimes this happens to the kids:

A 13-year-old died Thursday after he was twice tied to a tree overnight for disobeying his parents, the Edgecombe County sheriff said today.

Tracy5 Says:
#132

“Wow. This one has a real mental block.”

Answer the question sheep.

I’m pretty sure I already answered it ,d!ck.

Tracy5 Says:

That’s your opinion. Please provide your proof.

Yes. My opinion.

I doubt if I can “prove” it to you, since you seem pretty well set in your beliefs, but here’s some support for this particular opinion:

The American Bar Association talks about “Zero Tolerance” policies in schools:

“Schools are confusing equal treatment with equitable treatment. . . . Kids in middle school and high school care most about fairness. When they see two students whose ‘offenses’ are vastly different being treated exactly the same, that sense of fairness is obliterated and replaced with fear and alienation.”

Here’s a piece on Canada’s sentencing policies:

Canada ’s criminal justice system is highly effective in meeting the needs of the public for a safe and just society. Canada ’s approach to sentencing and corrections emphasizes fairness, effective protection of public safety, flexible and individualized approaches to sentencing and policy decision-making based on evidence of what works to reduce crime.

And, lest you complain about Canada’s crime rate:

The rate of property crime in the US and Canada are roughly on par. However, historically, the violent crime rate in Canada has been lower than the US and this continues to be the case. For example, in 2000 the United States’ rate for robberies was 65% higher, its rate for aggravated assault was more than double and its murder rate was triple.

I know it won’t convince you of anything, but you may learn a thing or two.

I suspect that it’s mostly bluster now that you’ve painted yourself into this ‘moral relativism’ corner but your unwillingness to change your mind also does not bode well for your children’s future…

hopefully they won’t be to terribly mal-adjusted and can someday learn to forgive you… and see the frightened sheep inside of you that can’t EVER be wrong… I see him now and won’t challenge, or talk to you again… here’s hoping.

Tracy5 Says:
#124

“Who here wondered why we have a crime problem? I didn’t. I didn’t notice belac or barfly wondering.”

Then do you agree or disagree that varying degrees of punishment for the same crime has led to high crime rates and repeat offenders?

Wow. This one has a real mental block. I don’t know whether it’s reading comprehension, a broader trouble with language in general, or an inability to reason efficiently, but something’s not firing on all cylinders.

Asked and answered (see #126) Your Honor, I move that Tracy be stricken from the record and ignored from now on…

Tracy5 Says:
#120

“Now is your response still the same?”

I already corrected you and you are welcome. No need to be redundant. The answer is still yes. Why do you think that they should be treated differently by the law?

i already explained why.

But I understand you’re not that quick on the uptake, so I’ll explain it again.

The social and economics of the two crimes are completely disproportionate, and the deterrent impact required for each case is completely different.

Thus, imposing the same sentence on an eighteen-year-old who stole a 5-cent piece of gum as you would impose on the embezzling CEO is counterproductive in terms of resources, impact on crime and social justice.

In short, it would inevitably make crime worse, not better.

Black-and-white, indeed.

When have I ever wondered why America has a crime problem? Is this projection a problem for you?

(See how lame that argument is when someone throws it back in your face, Tracy? We can both do better. Here’s my real answer…)

There are many factors that influence crime levels, poverty being chief among them. But ‘zero tolerance’ policies that have been tried have either no effect on crime or actually increase it… just sayin’

Tracy5 Says:
#113

“Tracy lives in a black and white world- he has no time for ’shades of grey’”

And you cluelessly wonder why America has such a crime problem. Unbelievable.

Who here wondered why we have a crime problem? I didn’t. I didn’t notice belac or barfly wondering.

Is this one of those clever wingnut tricks where you imagine the most extreme position possible, suggest as a form of hyperbole that someone holds it, then criticize that person for the imagined flaw that you projected onto them?

Seen it.

Tracy5 Says:
#111

“So, lying to buttress a war claim is morally the same as lying about a blowjob?”

To you it relative which is utterly pathetic. Didn’t your parents teach you that lying is lying, not matter what it’s about? I sure hope you don’t have any children.

Why do you have such a difficult time saying “Yes”?

Tracy5 Says:
“And yet thay would be treated very differently by the justice system. I understand that you would imprison the five-year old gum thief for EXACTLY the same amount of time as the Bank Robber, but can you see how others might object?”

No I would imprison an an ADULT the same amount of time for stealing a piece of gum or stealing a million dollars. You must be able to see the deterance problem with our current justice system and then you wonder why robbery is such a big crime statistic.

My mistake, T-5, I said “five-year-old gum thief” when I meant “eighteen-year-old thief of 5-cent piece of gum”.

Now is your response still the same?

Tracy5 Says:
#106

Okay, testifing under oath would be enough for me, too. Glad we got that cleared up. Wonder why they refuse?

They have better things to do than let a bunch of vultures get their jollies off.

Why does this comment make me think of Ken Starr breathlessly composing his report about what Bill and Monica did when no one was looking?

Really? They seem to have a lot of free time on their hands…

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/mason/5042364.html

Tracy5 Says:

“So, in the strictest understanding of our system of jurisprudence, no, Clinton did not “lie” to the grand Jury, just as Scooter did not “out” Valerie Plame because there was no conviction.”

Yes, just as Bush and Cheney didn’t have anything to do with the outing of Plame, that’s of course by some miracle charges are actually brought, which I will bet you $100 right now that they won’t.

Thank you for admitting that you erred when you insisted that Clinton lied to the Grand Jury.