Report: Scalia’s Claim That Released Gitmo Prisoners Have Killed Americans Is An ‘Urban Legend’
Report: Scalia’s Claim That Released Gitmo Prisoners Have Killed Americans Is An ‘Urban Legend’
A new report from the Seton Hall University School of Law explodes the myth that some 30 detainees released from Guantanamo Bay prison have “returned to the battlefield” against American forces.
This conservative urban legend was recently parroted by Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia in his dissent from the Court’s Boumediene decision. Scalia wrote that granting habeas corpus rights to Gitmo detainees “will almost certainly cause more Americans to be killed,” and supported this view by asserting that “at least 30 of those prisoners hitherto released from Guantanamo Bay have returned to the battlefield.”
The new Seton Hall report (pdf) states that “Justice Scalia’s claim of 30 recidivist detainees is belied by all reliable data” :
Despite being repeatedly debunked, this statement has been reflexively accepted as true by Members of Congress and much of the American public. Justice Scalia is only the most recent disseminator of an urban legend that refuses to die. [...]
[Scalia's] source was a year-old Senate Minority Report, which in turn was based on misinformation provided by the Department of Defense.
Justice Scalia’s reliance on these sources would have been more justifiable had the urban legend he perpetuated not been (one would have thought) permanently interred by later developments, including a 2007 Department of Defense Press Release and hearings before the House Foreign Relations Committee less than two weeks before Justice Scalia’s dissent was released.
Among the report’s conclusions:
– According to the Department of Defense’s published and unpublished data and reports, not a single released Guantánamo detainee has ever attacked any Americans.
– Despite national security concerns, the Department of Defense does not have a system for tracking the conduct or even the whereabouts of released detainees.
While there is little evidence that fighters interred at Guantanamo Bay — that is, those who were fighters before they got there — have attacked Americans, there is quite a bit of evidence that, for those falsely imprisoned there and for many young Muslims watching around the world, Guantanamo has a politically radicalizing effect. Maintaining Guantanamo and other illegal detention sites hurts America’s image abroad, and calls into question America’s support for human rights and the rule of law. There is no good argument against closing it down.
Cross-posted on The Wonk Room.
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“Urban legend”? How about “lie” – for many spouting this one, that’s what is, because they know it isn’t true.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:13 amWhat?? Tony “The Fixer” Scalia parroting misinformation from the Bush Defense Department? Who’d of thunk it?
Just saying . . .
June 21st, 2008 at 11:15 amspeaking of “conservative urban legends”…
i need some help… i’m writing a ‘letter to editor’ in response to a recent charley reese column, and want a quick FACT CHECK…
i am adding the words “The REPUBLICAN” to charley’s claims:
“Who failed to seal our borders? The REPUBLICAN Congress. Who voted for ruinous deficits, now totaling $9 trillion? The REPUBLICAN Congress. Who voted to forbid the government from negotiating lower prices for the Medicare drugs? The REPUBLICAN Congress. Who authorized a war on false pretenses? The REPUBLICAN Congress. Who set Medicare and Social Security on the road to bankruptcy? The REPUBLICAN Congress. Who votes to give billions of your tax dollars away to foreign governments? The REPUBLICAN Congress. Who voted for free-trade agreements that have virtually destroyed America’s manufacturing base? The REPUBLICAN Congress.”
true?
thanks!
June 21st, 2008 at 11:19 amCalling this an urban legend means a great many people believe it. In actuality, it’s something that a those believing it are people have only heard from neocons and Fox news people, never from an authoritative source (and yes, Fox news is not one of those). Most people have not heard anything authoritative either way until this report came out. That means it’s not an urban legend, and dasm is a lot more honest than you are by calling it a lie.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:20 amOf course the MSM hasn’t dispelled this lie. They allow it to stay out there in the ether. God I wish there was some way to get to the low-information voters who get all their news from the MSM. I feel like buying each of them a computer and teaching them to use the computer. I stopped watching news on TV and reading newspapers years ago. I love reading my news on the internet not only because I get all the news, not just what the MSM wants to feed me, I also get to read differing views on the news which I think makes me much better educated.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:21 amWhy don’t the pseudo-conservatives understand that the Bush administration is creating MORE terrorists, not less???
It’s a complete no brainer when you think about it. This administration is putting this country at great security risk, his administration should be impeached on this issue alone.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:21 amI’ve heard arguments that lifetime appointments to the SCOTUS unfairly burdens the nation with one point of view for ages, and locks out evolutionary positions. Duh! The proposed solution is for SC justices to be appointed to ONE UNRENEWABLE 9-year term to the Court.
Given that our toxic and corrupted Senate and Presidents typically only nominate and approve tools for ideology its not like we-the-people would be loosing great thinkers anymore. Maybe Scalia could move to the Vatican and work as an Inquisitor!
June 21st, 2008 at 11:25 amScalia, he’s the smart one, right?
June 21st, 2008 at 11:26 amThings are pretty damn bad when “urban legends” aka LIES are woven into SCOTUS dissents.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:29 amSo they aren’t returning to the battlefield? This is good news. It tells me that the experience at GITMO is breaking their will for Jihad.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:37 ama rogerse copy ‘n paste would go nicely here…
June 21st, 2008 at 11:38 amGood Morning Lady Z and all…Some are not suited to serve, many only serve themselve’s, like scalia…Blessings
June 21st, 2008 at 11:39 amThat think about the tequila worm is also a myth. I checked…
June 21st, 2008 at 11:40 am19/01/2007
GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba: Nearly three years after his release, an Afghan who was one of three young teens from his country held at Guantanamo Bay, is in custody in Afghanistan for fighting against U.S. forces, a senior camp official said.
The Afghan, who was about 15 when he was swept up along with hundreds of others and taken to Guantanamo Bay, is among a small number of former prisoners who have been killed or recaptured following their release by U.S. authorities, said Paul Rester, director of the Joint Intelligence Group at the detention center.
The former detainee, who would now be about 19, was captured more than a year ago after a shootout with U.S. troops, but Rester said in an interview this week with The Associated Press that there are no plans to bring him back to Guantanamo Bay, where the military holds nearly 400 men on suspicion of links to al-Qaida or the Taliban.
“He’s not been brought back here. We’re not bringing anybody here,” he said.
Authorities did not release the detainee’s name, and the detention center commander, Navy Rear Adm. Harry B. Harris, said details about his capture remain classified. A Defense Department spokesman also declined to comment.
It was unknown where he was being held in Afghanistan, where the U.S. holds about 620 prisoners.
The United States has released nearly 380 detainees from Guantanamo Bay, and officials say at least 20 have taken up arms again. Those include at least two Russians arrested by authorities in their native country and two other Afghans, the officials said.
“A portion of that 20, we’ve killed them so we know they’ve returned to the fight,” Harris told the AP. “Some of them are in jail today so we know they returned to the fight.”
Disclosing details about the former detainees could compromise U.S. intelligence-gathering efforts, Harris said.
SOURCE: International Herald Tribune
June 21st, 2008 at 11:43 am“I feel like buying each of them a computer and teaching them to use the computer. I stopped watching news on TV and reading newspapers years ago. I love reading my news on the internet not only because I get all the news, not just what the MSM wants to feed me, I also get to read differing views on the news which I think makes me much better educated.”
I’m in the same boat, except I listen to the reich-wing radio shows to cross check the lies they are spewing. I swear, almost 3/4 of the information they put out there is either a lie or completely skewed for their purpose of shaping peoples perceptions.
I tend to read books and scan the newspapers online, and then I hit the daily blogs…whenever I have time that is. The only way to stay informed is to control what information is going into your body. You can’t do that by only listening to the radio and television, they control your perception of the matters…and this is why we have so many ill-informed people walking around in America.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:44 am15/05/2007
May 17 (Reuters) – The Pentagon on Monday identified six former Guantanamo detainees who it said were released from the U.S. military prison in Cuba only to rejoin the fight against American and coalition forces in Afghanistan.
Following are names and descriptions of the six, whom the Pentagon said were among 30 released prisoners who have resurfaced as fighters.
* Mohamed Yusif Yaqub, also known as Mullah Shazada — Released May 8, 2003, he assumed control of Taliban operations in Southern Afghanistan and died fighting U.S. forces on May 7, 2004;
* Abdullah Mahsud — Released in March 2004, he became a militant leader within the Mahsud tribe in southern Waziristan and directed the October 2004 kidnapping of two Chinese engineers in Pakistan. Pakistani forces killed five of the kidnappers during a rescue. Mahsud was not among the dead;
* Maulavi Abdul Ghaffar — Captured in early 2002, he was held at Guantanamo for eight months and later was reported to have become the Taliban’s regional commander in Uruzgan and Helmand provinces where he carried out attacks on U.S. and Afghan forces. He was killed in a raid by Afghan security forces on Sept. 25, 2004;
* Mohammed Ismail — Released from Guantanamo in early 2004, he was recaptured four months later in May while participating in an attack on U.S. forces near Kandahar. When captured, Ismail carried a letter confirming his status as a Taliban member in good standing;
* Abdul Rahman Noor — Released in July 2003, he has since participated in fighting against U.S. forces near Kandahar. After his release, he was identified as the man described in an Oct. 7, 2001, interview with Al Jazeera television as the “deputy defense minister of the Taliban.”
* Mohammed Nayim Farouq — Released from U.S. custody in July 2003, he quickly renewed his association with Taliban and al Qaeda members and has since become “reinvolved in anti-coalition militant activity.”
SOURCE: Reuters
June 21st, 2008 at 11:44 am10/05/2008
By David R. Sands
Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates yesterday said a “fair number” of detainees at the Guantanamo Bay military prison cannot be returned to their countries for fear that they might be freed when they arrive home.
Mr. Gates was responding to reports in The Washington Times and other press outlets yesterday that former Guantanamo inmate Abdallah Salih al-Ajmi is now thought to have participated in a suicide bombing in the Iraqi city of Mosul on April 26 that killed six other people.
“I would say that I think we do as careful a vetting job as we possibly can before releasing these people,” said Mr. Gates, who has called in the past for the U.S. facility to be eventually shut down.
“There are a lot of prisoners down there, frankly, that we would be prepared to turn over to their home government, but the home government isn’t prepared to receive them, or we don’t have any confidence that if they still need to be incarcerated, that the home government will keep them incarcerated,” he added.
Mr. Gates confirmed Pentagon figures released earlier this week that showed an estimated 6 percent to 7 percent of the detainees released from Guantanamo have rejoined militant Islamist groups to fight the United States and its allies after their release.
At least 10 former Guantanamo inmates have been killed or recaptured, according to Pentagon figures. Al-Ajmi, who was released from Guantanamo in 2005, is the first former inmate of the U.S. facility in Cuba linked to a suicide attack.
The case of the 29-year-old Kuwaiti, released after being kept 3½ years in Guantanamo, has been reported as civil liberties groups and some congressional critics have been pressing to close the prison immediately.
A military judge yesterday threatened to suspend the war-crimes trial of a Canadian detainee at the prison, accusing government attorneys of failing to provide records of his confinement. The detainee, Omar Khadr, is accused of killing a U.S. soldier in Afghanistan.
Mr. Khadr’s attorneys say the records could give them grounds to suppress self-incriminating statements he made. The judge complained that prosecutors were seeking an expedited trial date for the Canadian detainee without providing the documents needed to make a ruling.
The Bush administration and its defenders say the question of Guantanamo’s future remains difficult, balancing the rights of the detainees and the demands and dangers posed in waging a global war on terror.
Guantanamo records show that during his time in the prison, al-Ajmi was in constant trouble with the guards and had to be placed in special detention. Despite the records, he was transferred to Kuwait in 2005.
In May 2006, a Kuwaiti court acquitted al-Ajmi of being a member of al Qaeda and raising money for the terror organization. The court also acquitted four other former Guantanamo prisoners.
“There is an implied future risk to U.S. and allied interests with every detainee who is released or transferred from Guantanamo,” Pentagon spokesman Cmdr. Jeff Gordon said Wednesday.
Asked yesterday whether the U.S. government was any closer to closing the Guantanamo prison, Mr. Gates replied, “I don’t think so.”
• Bill Gertz contributed to this article, which is based in part on wire service reports.
SOURCE: Washington Times
June 21st, 2008 at 11:45 amLet’s see if I can follow the legal logic:
1. We imprison some poor schnook at Gitmo whose greatest crime is camel cruelty.
2. Absent habeus rights, he is held indefinitely with no opportunity to tell a court of competent jurisdiction “hey, you got the wrong guy.”
3. Due to torture and unwarranted incarceration, our poor schnook becomes radicalized and now hates America.
4. Thus, we should deny him habeus so that he can be imprisoned in perpetuity with neither just cause nor judicial overview.
Exactly how are we marketing “democracy” in the region with this display of freedom?
June 21st, 2008 at 11:46 amIsn’t this boob the same guy who conjured up a Jack Bauer moment. This buffoon is just a twinkle away from believing in fairy dust
June 21st, 2008 at 11:46 am“Another Chris” contradicts himself within 4 comments.
Is that a trollie record?
June 21st, 2008 at 11:46 amLet’s also remember that a dissenting opinion in a Supreme Court case, no matter how many times it gets repeated in the media, carries no legal weight whatsoever. It is the dissenting view, the point of view that lost the argument. And usually it loses because it is wrong.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:47 amWhat is one more liar and propagandist amongst friends? Just add him to the vp and p list.
Spies, lies and torture ….your country, my country. We (even unto the 6th generation) are paying for someone else’s profit. Think oil.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:48 amZooey,
June 21st, 2008 at 11:48 amIntra-comment contradiction is the holy grail of the partisan
Zoo,
He/she/it is starting to look a lot like our other contradiction Zen master, Roger2.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:50 amits all so shameful
June 21st, 2008 at 11:53 amNo the first comment was a bit of sarcasm. Of course these people are returning to the fight when the get out. To think otherwise is foolish. This isn’t like WWII where you defeat the nation and the soldiers lay down their arms or surrender. You need to break the will of the individual person. Whether it takes 1 year, 5 years or the rest of their lives.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:54 amYa’ gotta know those law student researchers who helped with the report just loved poking a lawyerly thumb into Justice Scalia’s jaundiced eye.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:55 am13/10/2004
Twelve men recently released from the terrorist prison at Guantanamo Bay were involved in carrying out attacks on U.S. military and coalition targets in Afghanistan, the Pentagon said yesterday.
The Defense Department released the figures in the wake of reports that a former Guantanamo prisoner, “Commander” Abdullah Mehsud, who has forged ties with al Qaeda since his release, now leads a group whose members have strapped explosives on two Chinese engineers they kidnapped near the Afghanistan border.
Pentagon spokesman Lt. Commander Alvin Plexico said the United States knows of at five released detainees who have “returned to the battlefield,” and said that there are uncorroborated reports that another seven “have participated in attacks or provided support to anti-coalition forces in Afghanistan.”
One released prisoner killed an Afghan judge leaving a mosque and another was recaptured firing on U.S. forces during a raid on a suspected training camp.
Two other freed detainees were killed in action during battles against U.S. forces in Afghanistan.
“Reports of previously transferred detainees returning to al Qaeda and the Taliban is further evidence that these individuals are dedicated to their cause and have been trained to be deceptive,” Plexico said.
“From the beginning, we recognized the assessment process is not risk-free. There are inherent risks in transferring detainees for release.”
The United States has released 202 prisoners from Guantanamo.
In Pakistan, local leaders are trying to negotiate the release of the two Chinese, who were building a dam when they were kidnapped Saturday by terrorists led by the one-legged Mehsud.
Mehsud, 28, who calls himself “Commander Abdullah,” returned to Pakistan in March after about two years’ detention at the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. He had been captured by U.S.-allied Afghan forces in December 2001 while fighting for the Taliban, Pakistani officials said.
It was not clear why U.S. authorities released Mehsud
SOURCE: New York Post
June 21st, 2008 at 11:56 amAnother Chris Says:
June 21st, 2008 at 11:54 am
So when are you going over there to “break their will?”
Thank you in advance for sending your children and grandchildren to fight your good fight.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:57 amWell Zoe, I was in Afghanistan from Jan to June 2003 and Iraq from Sep 2003 to March 2004. Both times with the 82nd Airborne. What have YOU done to support the troop, but not the war? Which seems to be a favorite line among the Progs.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:00 pmThis isn’t like WWII where you defeat the nation and the soldiers lay down their arms or surrender.
The germans were told lies of what the invading americans would do to them. The only difference, is that unlike the captured germans, we actually did it to detainees.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:01 pmAnother Chris Says:
Oh, good, a cut-and-paste job from 2004. That’s convincing.
Take a little time and actually read the study referenced, because it directly addresses press coverage and the DOD. Feel free to take all the time you need to actually READ, or have someone read it to you.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:03 pmBarfly,
Never heard that one before. Why would the Germans be afraid of us? They were lead to believe that they were the superior race.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:03 pmBoth times with the 82nd Airborne. What have YOU done to support the troop, but not the war?
My grandson is an in-country artillery spotter, in the Big Red One.
Next question?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:05 pmI see Chris, so create terrorists, then break their will, create more terrorists, then break their will….and repeat. Makes sense to me…
June 21st, 2008 at 12:05 pmGummitch,
Post #17 is from last month if you are looking for something a bit newer. Sorry but I consider the DOD, Reuters and the Washington Times to be credible sources.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:06 pmBarfly,
Never heard that one before.
Another “student of history,” who doesn’t know his facts?
Shocking!
June 21st, 2008 at 12:06 pmSorry but I consider the DOD, Reuters and the Washington Times to be credible sources.
Why?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:08 pmBarfly,
Where did I say I was a sudent of history? Oh wait, I didn’t you just hung that quote on me. But I have read some books on WWII, and never saw would you said happened.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:10 pmAnother Chris Says:
Gummitch,
Post #17 is from last month if you are looking for something a bit newer. Sorry but I consider the DOD, Reuters and the Washington Times to be credible sources.
Leaving aside the use of the Washington Times as “credible”, what you’re saying is that you can’t be bothered to actually read the study, right?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:10 pmWere, by some anomaly of chicken hawk genetics, this cretin in Afghan when he says, he was 1st Brigade. First Brigade didn’t deploy to Iraq till 2004. I love the frizzled smell of chicken hawk dung seared by fact.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:12 pmAnother Chris, if our government sent you to Gitmo for no reason other than the color of your skin and treated you the way we treat these detainees you’d probably pick up arms and fight against the US government where ever you were able to. Bushco is creating more terrorists daily.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:13 pmAmong the report’s conclusions:
– According to the Department of Defense’s published and unpublished data and reports, not a single released Guantánamo detainee has ever attacked any Americans.
Ok so that was in the study right? Well either they are looking at the wrong data from the DOD, or they just plan lied, cause the articles I posted directly refute that.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:14 pmNot only does Another X have trouble with history, he has trouble with human psychology.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:14 pmWhy don’t we subpoena DOD to support your claims and wait for them to claim executive privilege, AC?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:15 pmShayne,
Do you think everyone at GITMO is innocent? Do you really think everyone is their cause of the color of their skin? Or do you at least think some of them are there based on evidence that they conducted attacks or supported attacks against US and Coalition troops?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:17 pmBarfly,
Where did I say I was a sudent of history?
———————————————————-
Of course these people are returning to the fight when the get out. To think otherwise is foolish. This isn’t like WWII where you defeat the nation and the soldiers lay down their arms or surrender.
Since you were asserting this is all that occurred at the end of WW2, I thought you were talking with some authority on the subject. My added quotation marks were for sarcastic effect, not that I was actually quoting you directly.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:17 pmAccording to the Department of Defense’s published and unpublished data and reports, not a single released Guantánamo detainee has ever attacked any Americans.
So, Scalia, a justice of the highest court in the land, not only bases his judgements on unreliable evidence, he apparently has no concept of how our legal system works where guilt or innocence is determined by what one has already done rather on what you think they will do.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
June 21st, 2008 at 12:20 pmShayne,
As far as psychology goes, yes some people are going to get released and seek reveange against the US. But I believe others will turn their backs on the jihadist movment fr fear of recapture and having to go through it all again.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:21 pmWhy would anyone in their right mind think for one second that any of the people that are running our government wants, or is using their power, to protect them or our military personnel?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:22 pmNearly every single stinking one of them use talk about protecting the people of this country.
As if it is a given that that is what they’re all about.
It is a batch of fecking lies.
Another Chris Says:
Or do you at least think some of them are there based on evidence that they conducted attacks or supported attacks against US and Coalition troops?
If those in charge of Guantanimo have EVIDENCE, why don’t they prosecute the ALLEGED Terrorists, instead of releasing them??? The fact that so many prisoners have been released, while so few have been convicted of anything, makes me question the quality of the EVIDENCE.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:25 pmBadger,
Just curious, would you convict them on the word of a 19 year old Private First Class in the US Army who says in a court this is the guy who was shooting at me. I have a feeling that’s what alot of these trials would come down too.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:29 pmFrom the study:
There is a great deal more documented in the study, but it requires actually reading it instead of relying on the very press releases studied and @n@lyzed in the study.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:30 pmBarfly,
But I have read some books on WWII, and never saw would you said happened.
Enjoy (from a German propaganda treatise, entitled “Never!”):
“The extermination of all nationally-aware continental peoples, our own German people above all. It is all the same, whether English or American papers, parliamentarians, popular speakers or writers speak of the destruction of the Reich, the seizure of our people’s children, the sterilization of male youth, etc., or if Bolshevism actually practices the slaughter of whole peoples, men, women and children. Behind it all is the eternal hatred of that race that for thousands of years has presented itself as God’s gift to the peoples, until at times of renewed awareness the peoples again defend themselves against their torturers.”
June 21st, 2008 at 12:32 pmgummictch,
How many is too many to return to the fight? 30, 40, 100. I think 1 is too many.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:34 pmThat’s pretty interesting Barfly.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:36 pmScalia isn’t alone in peddling the discredited “Gitmo 30″ talking point. It’s no surprise that John Yoo – and John McCain – echoed the same sound bite in respondse to the Court’s Boumediene ruling:
“30 of the people who have already been released from Guantanamo Bay have already tried to attack America again.” (John McCain, June 13, 208)
“As Justice Antonin Scalia’s dissenting opinion notes, at least 30 detainees released from Guantanamo Bay — with the military, not the courts, making the call — have returned to Afghanistan and Iraq battlefields.” (John Yoo, June 17, 2008)
For more details, see:
June 21st, 2008 at 12:36 pm“McCain, Scalia and Yoo Peddle Discredited ‘Gitmo 30′ Sound Bite.”
How many is too many to return to the fight? 30, 40, 100. I think 1 is too many.
And how many friends and relatives of these detainees are radicalized because of our actions?
30, 40, 100?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:38 pmAnother Chris Says:
gummictch,
How many is too many to return to the fight? 30, 40, 100. I think 1 is too many.
Why? Is there some magical significance to someone released from Gitmo as opposed to someone recruited in Syria on the basis of Gitmo?
The point of this particular thread is that there is a difference between 30 and 1, and the difference is propaganda and lies.
Why don’t you address the points in the study, such as the fact that the DOD is labeling people for “returning to war” when they’ve simply criticized their internment?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:39 pmAnother Chris,
Some of those held at Guantanimo were Working for the UN, at th time they were aprehended. Obviously, Mistakes were Made, and without Habeus Corpus, thes mistakes would go UNCORRECTED.
As for the 19 yr old soldier who was shot at….yes I think his ability to recognize an unfamiliar face in the heat of battle could be a mistake. It happens all the time in police lineups. Without Habeus, the ALLEGED Terrorist would not be able to present conflicting evidence.
In any Case, this alleged battlefield terrorist should be a Prisoner of War, and held in accordance with the GENEVA Conventions. MOst at Guantanamo we NOT picked up “ON the Battlefied” but elsewhere in far flung places like Bosnia.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:40 pmAnother Chris Says:
That’s pretty interesting Barfly.
How nice.
But it disproves your assertion. Shouldn’t you at least acknowledge that?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:42 pmAnother Chris Says:
How many is too many to return to the fight? 30, 40, 100. I think 1 is too many.
Ahh, the mysterious but increasingly popular Blackheart formula, “I would rather that 10 innocent men be tortured, than 1 guilty man be free…”
June 21st, 2008 at 12:43 pmAnother Chris Says:
June 21st, 2008 at 12:44 pm–Ok so that was in the study right? Well either they are looking at the wrong data from the DOD, or they just plan lied, cause the articles I posted directly refute that.
—
Why do have confidence in your links but call sources which dispute them lies or incorrect. Do you hold your sources to such scrutiny or do you believe them because you wiash to? Discounting sources so cavalierly may indicate a lack of critical thinking. I am not suggesting you are not a critical thinker and I admit I have not read all the posts. I just find this post sort of over confident
Barfly,
Would you follow a friend or relative blindly into crime if they were put in prison for something they may not have done?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:45 pmSorry but I consider the DOD, Reuters and the Washington Times to be credible sources.
That is hilarious. The Washington Times a “credible source”??? And the DOD during wartime a “credible source”??? In case you haven’t been paying attention, almost all initial DOD reports of incidents turn out to be lies, incomplete, or just plain wrong. And the Washington Times does not practice journalism.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:48 pmAnother Chris,
If Canada invaded and started arresting young men in city-wide raids and they arrested your brother in one even though he was a pacifist and a priest and sent him to St. Johns to a special detention center with no contact and no legal representation and your family couldn’t contact him… are you seriously telling me that a that point you would still consider fighting the Canadians to be a “crime”?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:48 pmDbadass,
It is clear that there is a difference between the sources in this post and the ones I posted in response. I beleive my sources. If you believe the Seton Hall report that’s fine too. I am willing to admit that the number might not be as high as 30, but I beleive that released detainees from GITMO have returned to the battlefield. Do you agree or disagree?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:48 pmBarfly,
Would you follow a friend or relative blindly into crime if they were put in prison for something they may not have done?
False choice.
If there was a scattershot policy of arresting my friends or relatives in place, that might target me next, for that association, I might feel that I have no alternative…
June 21st, 2008 at 12:50 pmSorry but I consider the DOD, Reuters and the Washington Times to be credible sources.
Now, didn’t the DOD ar first claim that their humvees and protective vests were ably doing the job?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:52 pmBelac,
The difference between that senerio and what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan is that the governments of those countries also see attacks against troops whether they be of that country or Coalition forces as a crime. If the US did not reconize attacks against the invading “Candaian” forces as a crime, then no it wouldn’t be a crime.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:53 pmNow, didn’t the DOD ar first claim that their humvees and protective vests were ably doing the job?
And didn’t Reuters and the Washington Times report it, at the time?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:54 pmAnd the Washington Times does not practice journalism.
Sorry but I doubt you have anything to back that up other then personal opinion.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:55 pmAnother Chris,
June 21st, 2008 at 12:55 pmAhh, so the French Resistance WERE criminals! I knew it! After all the Vichy Government considered attacks against the Germans to be a crime…
rog,
“He did not say when the suicide bombing happened.”
you forgot that part.
another message from “curveball” perhaps?
rog you may never become a great troll,
so be the best troll you can be, ok?
good luck.
*
jeb bush for vice-president.
mcbush/bush ‘08.
catchy.
*
June 21st, 2008 at 12:58 pmSo Another Chris, what would you do with these folks? Hold them indefinately? I am far more concerned about the loss of my nations values and rule of law than I am a few maybe angry releasees whom have every reason to be thoroughly pissed off. Why not simply try this folks and if there is a case incarcerate them accordingly. We release people from prisons everyday. Some of these folks commit new crimes. Fear should not be the driver behind justice
June 21st, 2008 at 12:58 pmWow, the mark of a true integrity and legal professionalism – putting unsubstantiated political rumor in your Supreme Court opinion.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:58 pmAnother Chris Says:
And the Washington Times does not practice journalism.
Sorry but I doubt you have anything to back that up other then personal opinion.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:55 pm
The Washington Times is owned and run by the Moonies, f_ckwit.
You might want to actually read the study, and then maybe read up on who owns and runs the sources you “believe” in.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:58 pmChris,
Tell us why you feel that invading and occupying a sovereign nation is legal? And that if you resist that occupation, you are a criminal? In our Revolutionary War, they were called PATRIOTS.
What is your feeling about the Iraq situation?
Inquiring minds and all …..
June 21st, 2008 at 12:59 pmcavjam Says:
Were, by some anomaly of chicken hawk genetics, this cretin in Afghan when he says, he was 1st Brigade. First Brigade didn’t deploy to Iraq till 2004. I love the frizzled smell of chicken hawk dung seared by fact.
I was 82nd airborne from 82-91and keep up with what the 82nd is doing. This troll was caught in other falsehoods months ago. One stating he was transfered to Korea when no brigades or divisions were in Korea, at the time all were in Afghanistan,Iraq or training at Ft Bragg.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:59 pmWayne,
June 21st, 2008 at 1:01 pmAnd notice how he has avoided any direct response to cavjam’s call-out. Telling.
Troll busting, what a great pasttime!
June 21st, 2008 at 1:02 pmWayne,
I’m in Korea right now, Camp Hovey to be exact. it’s about 2 in the morning here. 1st Heavy Brgade Combat team is still in Korea along with about 37,000 other troops.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:02 pmIgnorance breeds Fear
June 21st, 2008 at 1:03 pmFear breeds Republicans
Have some prisoners released from Guantanimo subsequently gone on to attack Americans? Perhaps.
Has the Existence of, and procedures at Guantanimo led to UNIVERSAL CONDEMNATION, Which has subsequently DAMAGED the moral standing of the United States Throughout the Whole World? Absolutely.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:03 pmZoe,
So the owners of the paper reflect the quality of the journalists?
June 21st, 2008 at 1:04 pmBrave patriots of America have stood up to the Fear-mongering of the right wing and are in the process of restoring freedom and democracy to the United States.
All you chickensh-t sissy Republicans will just have to deal with it.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:04 pmZooey,
June 21st, 2008 at 1:04 pmThe Moonies are also highly invested in seafood but my place is still idependent of them. Still it would be cool to marry a couple thousand salmon to a couple thousand halibut someday…
Oh and Wayne I have no idea who cavjam is.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:05 pmAnother Chris Says:
Zoe,
So the owners of the paper reflect the quality of the journalists?
June 21st, 2008 at 1:04 pm
The owners of the paper reflect the quality of the paper.
You’re a truly sad case Another Chris — you are willfully and persistently ignorant. I guess as long as you can “believe,” you’ll be ok in your tiny world.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:07 pmChris, if you believe that who owns a ‘news’ outlet has no bearing on the quality of the journalism, how do you explain Rupert’s Faux NoNooz Fantasyland and what he has done since purging the WSJ of it’s senior staff since acquiring it?
June 21st, 2008 at 1:08 pmDbadass,
In response to post #76, I think there should be trials, but it will take a long time. I DON’T think however that they should be released unless there’s good reason. I believe that keeping them off the battlefield saves American lives.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:09 pmSo let me ask everyone, Where do you get your news from?
June 21st, 2008 at 1:11 pmAnother Chris Says:
Zoe,
So the owners of the paper reflect the quality of the journalists?
anser: yes.
moonies.
check it out.
*
when you buy the washington times
you are supporting the rev. moon.
why do you support rev. moon?
what special qualities does he have that you admire?
*
good luck.
*
June 21st, 2008 at 1:11 pmFortunately, more and more people are refusing to be frightened into voting against freedom.
Bad for Republicans. Great for America.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:11 pmAnother Chris Says:
——————————————————————————–
Dbadass,
In response to post #76, I think there should be trials, but it will take a long time. I DON’T think however that they should be released unless there’s good reason. I believe that keeping them off the battlefield saves American lives.
–
June 21st, 2008 at 1:13 pmAre we talking about a real battle field or that weird abstract battlefield ala the War on Terrorism, Poverty, Drugs, Etc? Could you/Should you not make the same argument for holding murders, child molesters, drug dealers, etal indefinately regardless of the rule of law?
So let me ask Another Chris, when will you imprison those French Resistance fighters? Time is running out- they’re getting really old!
June 21st, 2008 at 1:13 pmI get mine from : Washington Post, NY Times, BBC, PBS, Daily Show (a comedy show but still better than anything else on the air), Newsmax, Drudge, Huffpost, TP, HDNet, to name a few.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:14 pmAnother Chris Says:
So let me ask everyone, Where do you get your news from?
why do you ask?
*
why do you get your news from rupert murdoch and rev. moon?
is bill o’reilly a journalist?
is sean hannity a journalist?
what about john gibson, is he a journalist?
what special qualities do you admire about them most?
*
good luck.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:15 pmChris supports violating everyone’s rights, as long as it makes him FEEL safe.
Fortunately, people weak enough to be frightened by right-wing terrorism are becoming a smaller and smaller minority in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:15 pmBelac,
I’m going to let the French Resistance guys go this time. After all they have gone about 63 years without gettign their A$$ handed to them by the Germans.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:19 pmAnother Chris,
June 21st, 2008 at 1:21 pmWell that’s at least one thing we agree on…
tommy,
“He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.”
- Benjamin Franklin
*
ac, was ben franklin a terrorist?
should we remove his face from the one hundred dollar bill?
*
good luck
June 21st, 2008 at 1:22 pmAnother Chris Says:
Wayne,
I’m in Korea right now, Camp Hovey to be exact. it’s about 2 in the morning here. 1st Heavy Brgade Combat team is still in Korea along with about 37,000 other troops.
1st Heavy Brigade Combat Team is in the 2nd Infantry isn’t it, not 82nd Airborne?
Did you transfer out of the 82nd to infantry?
June 21st, 2008 at 1:22 pmI did a(nother) doubletake:
From the Report:
???
So – I’m just curious. Why is the Department of Defense using media reports for information it, itself, should be gathering?
Did I misread this?
June 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pmFortunately, people weak enough to be frightened by right-wing terrorism are becoming a smaller and smaller minority in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.
They’ve been crying “wolf!” for so long…
…and when the wolf finally appears, he’s starving, mangy, three-legged, and half blind.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pmDbadass,
The “weird abstract battlefield” you speak of is the way things are gong to be for a while. The days of the conventional fight with armies on field is just about over.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:24 pmAnother Chris Says:
Belac,
I’m going to let the French Resistance guys go this time. After all they have gone about 63 years without gettign their A$$ handed to them by the Germans.
note the spelling error.
ac is rogerse.
busted.
good luck.
*
June 21st, 2008 at 1:24 pmWayne,
When exactly did I say I was STILL in the 82nd? I left the 82nd in ‘06 Spend a year and half in Virginia and now I’m in Korea.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:26 pmGood try Joe, but No
June 21st, 2008 at 1:27 pmAnother Chris Says:
I’m going to let the French Resistance guys go this time. After all they have gone about 63 years without gettign their A$$ handed to them by the Germans.
But you should at least give them credit for the Algerian strategy that’s worked so well for Bush in handling the Iraqis!
June 21st, 2008 at 1:27 pmWhen any advertiser wants to sell you a worthless product, there is a simple formula:
1. Create a problem or fear of a problem:
-’You may not realize how many germs are in your home’s air’
-’Are you missing out because you’re overweight?’
-’You may fall down and not be able to get up’
-’Scary Muslims have weapons of mass destruction!’
2. Propose that only YOU can solve this ‘problem’
-’Only Air Cleaner X will get rid of those dangerous germs!’
-’Only FatBGone2000 will get rid of that dangerous fat!’
-’Only ConstaMonitor will keep you safe from falls!’
-’Crimes of terrorism must be fought with military, not police!’
Only the most easily frightened, most ignorant will fall for it, but sometimes, that’s enough.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:29 pmjoe cantwell is on to something I think. It might be interesting to give subjects a list of historical figues and let them check off either “terrorist” or “freedom fighter”. This could make an excellent tool for accessing an individuals psyche.
Che Guevara? William Wallace?
June 21st, 2008 at 1:29 pmAnother Chris Says:
Wayne,
When exactly did I say I was STILL in the 82nd? I left the 82nd in ‘06 Spend a year and half in Virginia and now I’m in Korea.
Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!
– Sir Walter Scott.
*
from wayne:
I was 82nd airborne from 82-91and keep up with what the 82nd is doing. This troll was caught in other falsehoods months ago. One stating he was transfered to Korea when no brigades or divisions were in Korea, at the time all were in Afghanistan,Iraq or training at Ft Bragg.
*
ac, have you no shame?
where do you get your news from?
^
June 21st, 2008 at 1:30 pmRepublicans hate facts,
I’m flattered but you shouldn’t compare me to Christ.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:30 pmAC is another frightened child, clinging to the bullshit fairy tales told to him by those that wish to manipulate him.
Too bad that he is too undeveloped intellectually to see through it.
The ruse is obvious to thinking people.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:33 pmJoe if you have been reading the posts after that you can see wayne doesn’t know what he is talking about in regards to MY past. I get my news from the usual sources I guess. Actually I stop by TP about once a day. I also check MichaelMoore.com, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, Fox. I just don’t have the same doubts about the MSM as other people I guess.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:33 pmdbadass Says:
joe cantwell is on to something I think. It might be interesting to give subjects a list of historical figues and let them check off either “terrorist” or “freedom fighter”. This could make an excellent tool for accessing an individuals psyche.
Che Guevara? William Wallace?
not che but his brother “buzzy” was a heckuva freedom fighter and he played first conga in desi arnaz’s band.
btw – check out the maccabees.
terrorists or freedom fighters?
*
good luck
*
June 21st, 2008 at 1:34 pmEven if this is true, these detainees were released before the SCOTUS ruling.
??????????????????????????????????????
I can easier tell you where I dont get my news from…the people that think Caribou are getting warm from a heavily insulated oil pipe, MSM or the AM radio circuit.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pmRanting Tommy,
The ruse is obvious to thinking people.
But, your not a thinking person.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:36 pmAnother Chris Says:
Joe if you have been reading the posts after that you can see wayne doesn’t know what he is talking about in regards to MY past. I get my news from the usual sources I guess. Actually I stop by TP about once a day. I also check MichaelMoore.com, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, Fox. I just don’t have the same doubts about the MSM as other people I guess.
there’s just one more question you have answer.
you don’t have answer it here.
but you do have ask your self this question every morning,
when you look into the mirror,
“am i a man?”
good luck.
*
June 21st, 2008 at 1:37 pmRepub,
that’s why he clings to a military structure
Ya I’m a big fan of the Seven Army Values
Loyalty
June 21st, 2008 at 1:40 pmDuty
Respect
Self-less Service
Honor
Integrity
Personal Courage
Joe,
Your a $hitbag
Say that in your mirror.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:42 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
Joe, he doesn’t know what that means, so he couldn’t possibly answer that question honestly…
he could answer,
“no
i’m just another chris.”
this is for ac.
*
good luck.
*
June 21st, 2008 at 1:42 pmLoyalty
Duty
Respect
Self-less Service
Honor
Integrity
Personal Courage
Nice words but how shall they be applied? Kamikaze pilots certainly seem to fit as do any suicide bombers. Mafia, Yakusi, Drug Cartels. The devil is always in the details
June 21st, 2008 at 1:44 pm“Your a $hitbag”
Excluding the grammatical error this still seems to negate the RESPECT word
June 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pmAnother Chris Says:
Joe,
Your a $hitbag
Say that in your mirror.
you are rogerse.
rog, why are you so ashamed of yourself?
did chris hanson catch you chasing jail bait on tv?
is that it?
*
good luck
*
June 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pmdbadass Says:
Loyalty
Duty
Respect
Self-less Service
Honor
Integrity
Personal Courage
Nice words but how shall they be applied? Kamikaze pilots certainly seem to fit as do any suicide bombers. Mafia, Yakusi, Drug Cartels. The devil is always in the details
notice he left out grammar and spelling?
good luck.
*
June 21st, 2008 at 1:47 pmIn the month of April, foreclosure filings were reported on more than 243,000 properties, a 65% increase compared with April 2007, according to RealtyTrac. In San Bernardino California 800 foreclosures per day are being filed in the area. By the way, towns dominated by military bases suffer foreclosure rates four times worse than the national rate.
Where is the respect and loyalty of those that sent them to Iraq and Afghanistan?
June 21st, 2008 at 1:48 pmJoe,
Thanks for the link. I actual have that song on CD. And while I’m not Green Beret, but I do have those Silver Wings upon my chest. They are my Airborne Wings. You should listen to the words in that song. It’s about sacrifice and giving your all. “100 men will test today..but only 3 win the Green Beret.”
June 21st, 2008 at 1:49 pmdbadass,
the current time and date in seoul, south korea is june 22, 2:50am.
ac (rogerse) is up late.
if he is in korea.
good luck.
*
get some sleep.
*
June 21st, 2008 at 1:51 pmI’m not a veteran of any war, never been in the service. lol. I’m no fan of GITMO, Bush or the Republicans. Scalia is certifiably insane and I doubt EVERYTHING HE SAYS. Lie upon lie. I despise them all.
But the report is contradictory and confusing.
The story says:
One of the first things the report says is:
I don’t need or want half-truths. They are splitting those hairs mighty thin with the claim no Americans have been attacked. Apparently some have attacked non-Americans. But the 12 number really burns my a**.
You can’t jump from no detainees at all to 12.
I already posted this story at a political forum and had to eat my words based on the report itself. If anyone makes a mistatement there they are set upon immediately. lol. Having the rightwingers point out the 12 number doesn’t make me very happy.
If you’re going to make a claim like that in a story or headline it would be nice if the report actually backed up the claim. I appreciate ammuntion in targeting rightwing extremists but the Seton Hall report made me look like a fool and I sure don’t appreciate it.
Guess I’m going to have to read the whole damned thing. Everyone has to spin the info.
That’s my two cents. Thanks, artmann11
June 21st, 2008 at 1:52 pmGood post artmann
June 21st, 2008 at 1:54 pmoh… well, ok then…
thanks for your “help”…
June 21st, 2008 at 1:58 pmXisithrus,
I imagine the reason it’s hitting military families worse is that as housing rates go up, the local BAH for housing is staying the same, so more families are having to dip into their base pay in order to pay the rent of mortgage.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:58 pmAnother Chris Says:
Joe,
Thanks for the link. I actual have that song on CD. And while I’m not Green Beret, but I do have those Silver Wings upon my chest. They are my Airborne Wings. You should listen to the words in that song. It’s about sacrifice and giving your all. “100 men will test today..but only 3 win the Green Beret.”
yw, ac (rogerse).
nowhere in the song did i hear the words
“Your a $hitbag”
do you think ssgt. barry sadler committed suicide?
do you have his self-defense video?
good luck.
*
look in that mirror.
what do you see?
a man’s a man who looks a man right between the eyes.
&
June 21st, 2008 at 1:59 pmartmann11 Says:
ah yes,
the call of the “concern troll”
nice post artmann.
good luck.
*
June 21st, 2008 at 2:02 pmRepub,
Good try on the Army Values, you get partial credit for Loyalty, but you were way off on the others. Let me help you out,
Loyalty – Bear true faith and allegiance to the US Constitution, the Army, your unit, and other Soldiers
Duty – Fulfill your obligations
Respect – Treat people as they should be treated
Selfless-Service Put the welfar of the Nation, the Army, and your subordinates before your own
Honor Live up to all the Army Values
Integrity Do what’s right, legally and morally
Personal Courage Face fear danger or adversity (physical or moral)
June 21st, 2008 at 2:03 pmOr maybe because the republicans won’t pay soldiers a decent wage…
I have gotten a raise every year I’ve been in the Army 6 years plus now. They are trying to make military pay equal to civilian pay for those who perform similar duties or have similar responsibilities. I only hope that if a Democrat wins in Nov that they will continue to this trend.
June 21st, 2008 at 2:06 pmac,
US Constitution.
read it.
agree or disagree?
good luck.
*
June 21st, 2008 at 2:07 pmGet bent ya radical rightwinger. I’m not on your side AT ALL. I think Republicans and rightwingers in general have betrayed the country. They set up GITMO outside US jurisdiction so they can get away with war crimes like torture. Personally? If anyone ordered torture or carried it out IMO and by Nuremberg standards they should be tried and hung (or shot, whatever is done with war criminals these days).
Make no mistake, I want Republicans held accountable for their long list of crimes. I just want my information clear and NOT contradictory.
Habeas corpus is a fine tradition in our country and the only way we can avoid the “king” from dissapearing people with no oversight or hope. That is unAmerican and counter to everything our forefathers had in mind.
June 21st, 2008 at 2:07 pmnowhere in the song did i hear the words “Your a $hitbag”
That’s cause he wasn’t singing about you Joe.
June 21st, 2008 at 2:08 pmScalia’s theme song: “Call Me Irresponsible…”
June 21st, 2008 at 2:10 pmAmen.
June 21st, 2008 at 2:12 pmAnother Chris Says:
nowhere in the song did i hear the words “Your a $hitbag”
That’s cause he wasn’t singing about you Joe.
of course not.
it was before i was born.
i’m not as old as you i guess.
sorry about artmann.
another good post, ac?
btw – you’re up awfully late ac,
can’t sleep?
are you alone again?
good luck.
*
June 21st, 2008 at 2:12 pmrepub,
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benjamin_franklin.html
June 21st, 2008 at 2:14 pmNot sure if this is an insult or apology. lol.
June 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pmThe THEY that gave you wages are Democrats
Dems didn’t win Congress until 2006. How do you explain 2002-2006? And actually the defense budget for 2007 was probably already approved before they took control so..
June 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pmI find Scalia to be a repulsive loudmouth who adds nothing to anything. It’s ironic that he’s on the supreme court.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:00 pmac,
it’s currently sunday, june 22, 2008 at 4:18:56 am
in seoul, south korea.
you’re tired, alone,
and sitting in front of a computer screen.
soon sleep will overcome you.
but in the morning you must face the mirror
and yourself.
i wish you good luck in your quest.
*
June 21st, 2008 at 3:22 pmHe’s a fargin radical SOB. Torture is not covered under the cruel and unusual punishment part of the Constitution. He cites Jack Bauer of the Fox propaganda show 24 in his rulings. That’s insane.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:29 pmI should have said torturing suspects is not covered by the cruel and unusual punishment part of the Constitution.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:39 pmKeep up the bullshit, Scaliar, I’d just love to see you impeached over your pre-determined political stances, and your refusal to recuse yourself when you have a conflict of interest.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:40 pmBastard.
I wish.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:41 pmQuestion Number 1: How many times did the Japs attack Pearl Harbor after Dec 7,1941?
June 21st, 2008 at 3:55 pmQuestion Number 2: We whupped the Axis in WW II in a little over 4 years,world-wide, so why haven’t we whipped a couple hundred towel-head in almost 7 years? We’ve captured thousands of their No.2 men, how many can there be left?
Question Number 3: What kind of Commander in Chief is leading this country anyway?
12?
Because if we actually win that would deny Republicans their “fear” card to use in elections?
As many as Bush wants?
The corporate wh0re type?
June 21st, 2008 at 4:03 pmBig Difference Klem,
In WWII all able bodied men ( and many women) served, Americans endured Rationing, War profiteering was Anathema, Nobody got a tax cut….the Country was United. And the WE who whipped the Axis has to include the Russians, who suffered lots more casualties than anyone else.
As for what kind of Commander in Chief is leading (sic) this country…I think you know thew answer to your question.
June 21st, 2008 at 4:06 pmPersonal courage is locking up middle easterners indefinitely even if they have no evidence against them to try them with because we pissed them off by incarcerating them for no reason. That kind of blows your courage and integrity claims right out of the water you pantywaist.
June 21st, 2008 at 4:50 pmI hope Scalia keeps yapping. I’m pretty sure insanity would be a justifiable reason for removing him from the bench.
June 21st, 2008 at 4:54 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
Where do you get your news from?
From the SOURCE where possible, and MULTIPLE SOURCES as much as possible, and NOT from the MOONIES OR FOX if at all possible.
the best thing you’ve written in a long time.
June 21st, 2008 at 5:20 pmShayne,
June 21st, 2008 at 5:23 pmWhen term limits were set up for judges were established in The Constitution, Alzheimer’s was not a concern. If the framers realized then what mental disease meant, the conditions for term limits in the judiciary would have been framed differently.
That second ‘were’ s/b ‘and’, sorry guys and dolls.
June 21st, 2008 at 5:26 pmYa got love that crazy Moonie Times. After all the rev is Christ. Right? At least he claims to be. Hell, Republicans went to his coronation. Believe it or not. How weird is that? How about it rightwingers? Is he or isn’t he?
If he is, I’m in deep sheit. However, if he isn’t but says he is, wouldn’t that make him a false prophet? The worse kind of blasphemy? I can’t think of anything worse from a Christian point of view. But y’all still read, quote and love the Moonie times. When y’all gonna have a mass wedding?
lol.
Republican double standards are fun… sometimes.
June 21st, 2008 at 5:44 pmAnother Chris Says:
June 21st, 2008 at 1:02 pm
The delta time from Seoul to EDT is 14 hours. That means that when you posted, it was 3AM in Korea.
Since it is past midnight, did you miss the “The Walk of Shame
June 21st, 2008 at 5:53 pm?”
Sorry, AC, I forgot that Korea does not observe DST at this time. The delta time is indeed +13 hours.
June 21st, 2008 at 6:09 pmI’m surprised to learn that the DOD lets its active duty personnel post comments at a progressive site like Think Progress. Not completely out of the realm of possibility, but surprising, nonetheless.
June 21st, 2008 at 6:21 pmEx-Guantanamo Detainee Joined Iraq Suicide Attack
By Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 8, 2008; Page A18
A Kuwaiti man who complained about maltreatment during a three-year stay in the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, was involved in a deadly suicide bombing in northern Iraq last month, the U.S. military confirmed yesterday.
Abdallah Salih al-Ajmi, 29, whom the U.S. military accused of fighting with the Taliban in Afghanistan and wanting to kill Americans, was involved in one of three suicide bombings that killed seven Iraqi security forces in Mosul on April 26, Defense Department officials said.
They said that after his release in Kuwait, Ajmi traveled to Iraq via Syria — a common way for foreign fighters to enter Iraq through porous borders. Military officials said Ajmi’s motives were unclear, but in a lengthy martyrdom audio recording before his death, Ajmi implores people to take part in suicide bombings to attack Americans.
June 21st, 2008 at 6:23 pm.
Justice SCALIA…
The Urban Legend.
.
June 21st, 2008 at 6:42 pmrepublicans will not hesitate to lie if they think they can gain some advantage from it!
June 21st, 2008 at 7:37 pmZoe,
So the owners of the paper reflect the quality of the journalists? (another chris)
Gee, this is a tough one.
So the “owners” (let’s say, the Kremlin) of the “paper” (let’s say, TASS and PRAVDA) reflect the quality of the “journalists” (let’s say, all the loyal Communists who wanted to keep their jobs and didn’t want to end up in Siberia).
Yes, I’d have to say that if the owners of any news outlet are inflexible totalitarians (like Rupert Murdoch, Rev. Moon, the Communist leaders in the Kremlin during the Cold War, or the Defense Department under Donald Rumsfeld) then there will definitely be a conservative slant to whatever their puppet journalists/public affairs officers are writing or spouting on-air. The warped ideology of these types of conservative totalitarians will always prevail, will always trump factual reporting. No deviation from totalitarian-inspired “talking points” is tolerated, even to report “the truth that sets men free.”
When I served in the Air Force years ago, during Nam, during the Watergate scandal, I experienced “media blackout” firsthand. I remember walking one day into the base cafeteria overseas, seeing the Stars and Stripes banner headline “Nixon Resigns,” and thinking “What? I didn’t even know President Nixon was in trouble.” Either I had been completely spaced out (actually very probable) or Stars and Stripes had not been reporting (on the front page, versus buried inside) how serious the charges against the Nixon administration really were. Only when I saw “All the President’s Men” several years later, after getting out, did I grasp the true extent of the constitutional crisis that a bunch of criminal, conservative, “tough-on-crime” Republicans had foisted on our democracy…kind of like today.
Oh, and AC, I read the same articles and figured there was bound to be some recidivism among those released, just like there’s recidivism in our own penal system, but I refuse to be “Willie Hortoned,” if you know what I mean. I refuse, based on the oath I swore to upon entering the military, to trash our Constitution and the “rule of law” based on someone’s irrational fear of our judicial system, which I know is behind the Bush administration coming up with their kangaroo-court military tribunals. This didn’t happen after the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993. President Bill Clinton, for all his other faults, didn’t trash the U.S. Constitution, respected the “rule of law,” and had the Justice Department try the case in federal court, with the federal judge keeping any sensitive information safe, while giving the right-wing religious fundamentalist terrorists a fair trial, their day in court, an American tradition. The only thing that’s changed between 1993 and today is that some people with a lot less honor than President Bill Clinton are now in the White House.
And, good one, Ranting Tommy. “Ignorance breeds fear, fear breeds Republicans.” And “Republicans” is interchangeable with conservatives or totalitarians or fascists…who all seem to have a one-track “talking point” mindset.
June 21st, 2008 at 8:14 pmThanks for sharing your experiences, Wizard2000.
Also, thanks for reminding folks that honor, dignity & integrity has been practically non-existent during the bu*sh reign of terror – all the more obvious when compared to President Clinton’s terms – even with all its warts.
And, it’s no secret this neoCon admin. has hijacked the media creating a well-oiled echo chamber. Soviet Style.
June 22nd, 2008 at 11:37 am“Fox News”
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/05/07/gitmo.bomber/?iref=mpstoryview
“Why don’t the pseudo-conservatives understand that the Bush administration is creating MORE terrorists, not less?”
http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0001454.html
Kinda been around for a while. However, I don’t find a it to be a terrorist act if its against a military target (USS Cole, Oklahoma City Bombing etc.) I find them to be acts of war. Just hard to delcare war on non-state entities.
We should probably just keep doing w/e the Terrorists want because that will get them to stop amirite?
“Tony “The Fixer” Scalia parroting misinformation from the Bush Defense Department?”
I too wasn’t very happy with Scalia’s entire Dissent. Although he’s one of the few Justices that only cites the Constitution and Constitutionally Acceptable Federal Laws. He does not cite “public opinion” (usually obtained through Constitutional Amendments) or Foreign law/Opinion like most of the other judges. But of course appreciating that is limited to those with a understanding of law and our actual form of government.
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:12 pmanybody see the new york times today? Al Qaedas own Yemen site announces its newest deputy… hes an x gitmo resident. is that republican PR?
as far as the notes above about the media being a “republican echo-chamber” are concerned, I must say that this idea is ridiculous. As someone who works in film and television over the past 13 years in NY and LA, I can without doubt say that the mass-media is absolutetly and undeniably leftist. Not to be insulting…but any claim to the contrary is just ridiculous and literaaly ignorant. Sure, the righties have FOX NEWS and Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity on AM radio… but the leftists dominate EVERY OTHER MEDIA OUTLET in the country. to deny this is to be in denial.
and to the person who lauds Clintons response to the 93 bombings…I would argue that it is his inaction that has contributed to where we are today. After all..it was Shiek Khalid Mohammed who masterminded the 93 bombings and was never pursued properly… he came back and masterminded the 9/11 plot. It was Clintons refusal to accept a “non-prosecutable bin laden” that allowed Osama to be free to plan oversee 9/11. Whether or not Clintons principles/ideas are in question here doesnt matter… the results speak for themselves… during his presidency we saw 93 WTC bombings, MULTIPLE US Embassy Bombings, USS Cole Bombing and the planning of the 9/11 attacks…
Our constitution and our principles are awesome models of civilization and I dont denounce anybody who values these ideals… I do however argue that maybe these ideals do not effectively safe guard us against a people with no such ideals… For better or for worse, the ideas and actions of the recent administration have provided 1 inarguable result… NO ATTACKS in 8 years.
hopefully this new Yemenise Deputy isnt the next mastermind… apparently the bloggers here think that this guy is the only dangerous person to be released from gitmo… if they even accept that. Maybe Dan Rather can do a factual report on it…complete with forgeries.
January 23rd, 2009 at 8:41 pmwhat BRAVE PATRIOTS stood up to the right?
thats a bit mellow dramatic isnt it? yeah…blogging, marching, petitioning, is real brave.
be careful how you throw around the word “brave”.
id venture to say that there is no bravery that isnt wearing a uniform.
i also say that reading this blog is a bit depressing. I am not a repub, but im conservative about many things. and if you follow politics, youd have to agree that the repib party is anything but conservative on many matters these days..
I would hope that we all could stop such aggressive dialouge at some point. In reading Right Wing blogs…I see the same exact thing that i see here…all people who swear that the other side is wrong/ignorant/naive/week. All quoting self-proclaimed superior sources of information. I cant figure out if its comical or scary.
We are fast becoming a country of blind idealouges…full of quotes but totally void of original ideas.
our answers arent in the multi-millionaire DC pols…most of whom have zero real world experience… the answers are within. the less govenrment involvement the better.
January 23rd, 2009 at 9:10 pm