Hatch compares FISA critics to those ‘who wear tin foil hats and think 9/11 was an inside job.’
By on Jun 25th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Hatch compares FISA critics to those ‘who wear tin foil hats and think 9/11 was an inside job.’
Speaking today on the Senate floor in favor of the Foreign Service Intelligence Act legislation, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) compared critics of the bill — which include Sens. Harry Reid (D-NV), Chris Dodd (D-CT), and Barbara Boxer (D-CA), among others — to deluded conspiracy theorists. Hatch mocked the what he called “onerous oversight provisions” included in the bill, and said those who raise the specter of unchecked executive wiretapping power “feed the delusions of those who wear tin foil hats around their house and think that 9/11 was an inside job.” Watch it:
Those “onerous” oversight provisions Hatch maligns? A ban on “reverse targeting” of Americans and a new requirement of probable cause for surveillance of Americans abroad.
Update Late this afternoon, the Senate voted 80-15 to invoke cloture on the FISA bill. Ian Welsh at FDL writes that this "was the real vote" and applauds the 15 senators who "voted for the Bill of Rights."
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Actually Opie, I would compare these brave critics to Messers. Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Adams, et al. who drafted and refined the Declaration, Constitution (original text) and Bill of Rights. You and your fellow Republicans who willingly trade liberty (of others) for (perceived) security will make great pets.
June 25th, 2008 at 9:05 pmWhat if you don’t wear a tin foil hat and think 9/11 was an inside job?
June 25th, 2008 at 9:05 pmAren’t there some photos of Hatch wearing a tinfoil hat inhis livingroom? Where has the law-and-order party gone. Oh, it’s only the laws that protect the corporations and their dear leader that they care about. The constitution? What’s that?
June 25th, 2008 at 9:06 pmHatch mocked the what he called “onerous oversight provisions” included in the bill, and said those who raise the specter of unchecked executive wiretapping power “feed the delusions of those who wear tin foil hats around their house and think that 9/11 was an inside job.”
The tin foil hat belongs on his head. How any elected member of government can be so completely ignorant of what this country stands for is beyond me.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
June 25th, 2008 at 9:07 pmSo speaks the traitor.
June 25th, 2008 at 9:08 pm19 guys armed with boxcutters attack us, and Bush responds by trying to destroy our Constitution and by trying to set up a facsist police-state dictatorship. Isn’t that a bit of an over-reaction, Sir?
June 25th, 2008 at 9:08 pmWho gives a rats arse about what the fool moron hatch says?
June 25th, 2008 at 9:09 pmHere’s something I bet no one knows about:
The larger possible consequences of impeachment being “off the table.”
June 25th, 2008 at 9:13 pmSo if someone says they have a truth detector in their head isnt that made of metal?
So why is Hatch giving Limbaugh a hard time here?
June 25th, 2008 at 9:20 pmIt was an inside job Orin and you had an intern hack into Ted Kennedy’s computer to steal his secrets during the appointment of Roberts and Alito et al. The concern is 1. You guys spy on your enemies domestically instead of foriegn 2. You give immunity to the thugs who help you.
Orin Hatch: One of the worst people in the whole world.
June 25th, 2008 at 9:20 pmWell now, the words ‘9-11 was an inside job’, spoken on the Senate floor. Veeerrrry interesting indeed.
June 25th, 2008 at 9:28 pmWhy do you suppose it was that Mr. Hatch drew that particular ‘parallel’ so to speak. How did this completely insulated fossil get the word that there were actually people who entertained such outrageous thoughts, hmmmm.
Word must be gettin’ around.
I’ve gotta go play some foos, this is too good.
PHuck you Hatch! Anybody that supports this asinine bill is a traitor to this nation and should be tried as such and when found guilty, shot by a firing squad while standing next to their fellow traitors!
I had the lucky stroke of running into Tim Murphy (R) PA this weekend on the main street of my home town while my 3 year old daughter was riding on my shoulders. He was passing out nailfiles w/ his name on them. He saw me coming and leaned in like he musta thought that it was going to make a great picture. He stuck out his hand for me to shake, I refused it and leaned in real close and told him, “you are a traitor and should seek other employment ’cause you’re not fit as a congressmen.” He sputtered and stamered and finally spit out, “why’s that.” I said are you going to pretend that you didn’t just vote to grant immunity to the telecomms that broke the law? He said, “but, but, but it was already agreed too…” To which I responded, “No one had the right to agree to shred our constitution, you’re a disgrace.” and walked away. Thank god my daughter was there or I very likely would’ve shown him how a “patriot acts” and landed myself in jail.
My wife took the nailfile and told me as we walked away, “you’re not aloud out in public anymore.”
Maybe, but Murphy knows how I feel. ;)
June 25th, 2008 at 9:33 pmDo these people ever get out?
June 25th, 2008 at 9:40 pmNo one on the right spoke out when most of the Democrats originally surrendered to the Republicans on FISA. Now that some are actually speaking out against FISA; all of a sudden they are delusional and wear tin foil hats. Republicans are watching way too many Mel Gibson movies. (Signs)
Some one has to protect our rights and defend the Constitution and it obviously isn’t going to be the GOP. How much did the telecoms contribute to your campaign Hatch???
June 25th, 2008 at 9:40 pm“He was passing out nailfiles w/ his name on them.”
A psycho-an’o'lyst could have fun with that one….
Good show, RadicalRightisRadicallyWrong!
June 25th, 2008 at 9:43 pm9/11 was almost certainly an inside job of staggering proportions, and I seriously doubt that there is a single congressperson that does not know it. For Hatch to openly mock those educated in the facts only indicates to me that he was at the least aware of the conspiracy and at the most is directly connected in some way. 9/11 was no “19 man” operation. Make no mistake, the Bush/Cheney administration is up to it’s beady little eyes with complicity in the 9/11 tragedy/crime. Despite what the 9/11 Commission whitewash wants us to believe, the evidence of a NeoCon, Military false flag operation is overwhelming. All that is necessary is the ability to read, an internet connection and the willingness to accept the truth when you see it.
June 25th, 2008 at 9:47 pmThanks, Nevar!
Believe it or not I actually had the thought that I could claim that I thought he has trying to attack me with what was in his hand as they were dragging me off of him, but then I felt the weight of my daughter on my shoulders and had a rare moment of clarity, knowing nothing good would come of my more “base” instincts.
June 25th, 2008 at 9:50 pmNail files?
Really?
Huh.
June 25th, 2008 at 9:52 pmTheRadicalRightisRadicallyWrong Says: “I said are you going to pretend that you didn’t just vote to grant immunity to the telecomms that broke the law?
He said, “but, but, but it was already agreed too…”
This part jumped out at me, as evidence of the herd mentality of the legislature. They must feel safety in numbers, and I’m sure most of them are afraid of the telecoms, and the information gathering agencies.
There are only a few courageous individuals willing to stand up and speak truth aloud.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:04 pmThank goodness we have one of them running for president.
tanq,
defend hatch
but not beck?
coward
aren’t you…?
*
good luck.
&
June 25th, 2008 at 10:09 pmBarry who?
June 25th, 2008 at 10:12 pmHatch your a fookin idiot. Yeah, its really ridiculous and paranoid to think that like, we should have constitutional rights and stuff, to like, protect us from government intrustion into our private lives. I mean, who worries about stuff like that?..there are people with box cutters who want to do us harm…
June 25th, 2008 at 10:14 pmBombay Sapphire makes Tanqueray taste like piss
June 25th, 2008 at 10:16 pm>But at least he came out in
>favor of the death penalty today,
right.. hooray. the death penalty, name me ONE dictatorship which doesnt use it? name me ONE civilized country, other than japan and the united states, that does..
June 25th, 2008 at 10:16 pm>Me and Barry support that death penalty bro
> (tap fists), even preemptive if necessary.
pre-emptive death penalty? you mean abortions?
June 25th, 2008 at 10:17 pmmy how times have changed — from the mid 90’s:
June 25th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
tanq,
see you at the post.
if
you have the
guts.
:)
tap fists.
lol.
*
good luck.
*
June 25th, 2008 at 10:20 pmand “FreeRepublic On FISA 11/30/2000 (A Trip Down Memory Lane)“
June 25th, 2008 at 10:22 pmChocolate Jesus Says:
>Me and Barry support that death penalty bro
> (tap fists), even preemptive if necessary.
pre-emptive death penalty? you mean abortions?
cj,
pro abortion?
only in case of incest.
let’s ask his sister.
*
good luck.
*
tanq?
*
June 25th, 2008 at 10:22 pmtanq?
tap fists?
*
;)
*
June 25th, 2008 at 10:23 pmsc mom:
Excellent post. And to think that the ass h***s on the Right (they know who they are) are so damn quick to blame Clinton for being soft on terror.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:37 pmThat Telcom money spends real good, eh, Hatch?
F’n whore.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:42 pmLet’s watch the unseen surveillance footage of the 911 pentagon attacks. Then we can discuss.
Seems like a sham.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:50 pmtanq,
no vote for beck?
coward.
good luck.
*
June 25th, 2008 at 10:51 pmIncluding abortion, both on demand and in many instances forced. A women should be allowed 1 “mistake”, after which the state says your on your own.
St Tanqeray, of the Church of the Sacred Coathanger, has spoken…
June 25th, 2008 at 10:56 pmHug The Moon Says:
Let’s watch the unseen surveillance footage of the 911 pentagon attacks. Then we can discuss.
I want to see more of The Dancing Israeli’s…
June 25th, 2008 at 11:02 pmUnlike you, I don’t suck cocks, so I wouldn’t know what piss tastes like. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Check this crazy shit out
June 25th, 2008 at 11:07 pmTanqueray
FLAGGED
June 25th, 2008 at 11:12 pmAnd while we are discussing the sucking of cocks, could someone explain why you can’t say anole eyes?
June 25th, 2008 at 11:14 pmuMM, Oh, Orin? What about the illegal surveillance that was ordered by BushitCo and carried out by the telecoms BEFORE 9/11? Effing ninny.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:17 pmtanq,
the beck post
is that way.
*
you like piss?
there is something wrong
with that.
*
republicans like the taste
of piss?
ok, tanq.
if you say so.
good luck.
*
June 25th, 2008 at 11:17 pmdbadass, it’s just gotta be the yze!
June 25th, 2008 at 11:17 pmIt’s too damn bad that TP would allow this pernicious troll to sully the good name of a premium gin.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:18 pmTanker !
But the idiot who impregnated her should be tracked down and sterilized immediately
How utterly Geshtapo of you!
How about concentration camps for the unwed mothers?
June 25th, 2008 at 11:19 pmLet’s not forget that Republicans opposed tougher anti-terror measures Clinton proposed because they did not want a ‘police state’.
http://www.cnn.com/US/9604/18/anti.terror.bill/index.html
June 25th, 2008 at 11:29 pmHi
June 25th, 2008 at 11:34 pmNow where exactly was Ms. Clinton on all of this? Silly c*unt!
RHF! You goof!
June 25th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
republicans hate facts Says:
The NetRoots really were NutRoots for supporting Obama over Hillary!
I would have rather it had been Kucinich or Edwards, because, frankly, neither Obama or Clinton are trying to fight on the floor for our 4th Amendment rights. I am sorely disappointed in both of them.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:38 pmAnd more.
And more.
Nice try, RHF. But your candidate still lost.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:39 pmLooks like we have 80 senators to run candidates against and kick all of them out of office.
Time to start taking the party back or start a new one.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:48 pmA party that actually believes in the Constitution and Rule of Law.
Every one of these 80 got paid off by the telcos, like their House counterparts.
9/11…….
Conspiracy Theory #1 – 19 Arabs with Box Cutters directed by a tall man from a cave in Afghanistan fly airplanes into two buildings, one building falls which is not hit, pristine passports drop out of sky, and steel turns into molten metal 500 degrees less than it is supposed to.
Conspiracy Theory #2 – 19 Arabs directed by man in cave in Afghanistan fly planes into two buildings, while thermite weakens beams beforehand and during ensuing confusion.
Conspiracy Theory #3 – Particle Beams, UFOs, Aliens, The Devil, and unmanned planes bring down all three buildings.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:51 pmWhy are you guys poking RHF?
That’s MY job!
June 25th, 2008 at 11:54 pmThe Mistress is in the house…
June 25th, 2008 at 11:56 pmZooey Says:
Why are you guys poking RHF?
That’s MY job!
Well, start poking, already.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:58 pmSlacking?
=D
RHF@61
Flagged.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:59 pmThat was way over the top.
republicans hate facts Says:
June 25th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Calm down, or I’ll charge you extra.
BTW, your precious Hillary couldn’t even be bothered to show up to vote for or against cloture, nor could she be bothered to say a single word about it.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:01 amrepublicans hate facts Says:
ROTFL! After Obama has PROVEN ME RIGHT, you all still want to POKE AT ME? ROTLF, how PATHETIC!
Where was Hillary today, exactly?
June 26th, 2008 at 12:02 amRHF is using a winky face — does that mean he really loves us? Deep, deep down?
Or does that mean he’s actually “upright left?”
June 26th, 2008 at 12:03 amWiggedy whack
June 26th, 2008 at 12:03 amrepublicans hate facts Says:
Actually we ALL LOST, and mainly because TARDS like YOU AND ZOOEY were CONFUSED ENOUGH to think Obama was MORE OF A DEMOCRAT than Hillary. She has PROVEN herself to be the loyal party person, and PROVEN YOU ALL WRONG as to how she’d behave if she had last. We were right about, that, and we were RIGHT about everything else. You’re just too INSECURE to admit HOW BADLY YOU WERE DUPED!
While you’re too insecure to admit that Clinton’s stance on the death penalty is no more progressive than Obama’s. Go ahead and ignore that, though. I wouldn’t expect anything better from you.
The whole infantile ALL CAPS thing is really old, though.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:05 amRHF thinks that someone merely disagreeing with him over a favorite candidate is “trashing” him.
I had no idea he was so sensitive.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:05 amOh, and the ROTFL thing is even more juvenile.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:06 amWho’s dumb, RHF?
You’re the one falling for the “poking” every single time.
ROTFL!! ROTFL!!! ROTFL!!
June 26th, 2008 at 12:07 amNone of you have ever actually rolled on the floor doing anything other than perhaps grasping clenching bowels so can you all give that sorry shit a break please?
June 26th, 2008 at 12:10 amNone of you have ever actually rolled on the floor doing anything other than perhaps grasping clenching bowels so can you all give that sorry shit a break please?
June 26th, 2008 at 12:10 amRHF, you are avoiding the real question.
Where was Hillary today, exactly?
She is no longer a candidate, why was she not doing her job?
June 26th, 2008 at 12:11 amdouble quick! Two times!
June 26th, 2008 at 12:11 amWow.
I’m so powerful, that I brought down Hillary Clinton singlehandedly. That is f_cking cool.
It couldn’t possibly be that she ran her campaign like a political novice. No, it couldn’t be that.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:12 amI see.
RHF chooses to be a raving maniac. Ok.
RHF, I challenge you to post on TP as often as you ever do, and to never respond to a single “poking.”
You will fail.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:14 amrepublicans hate facts:
June 26th, 2008 at 12:15 amIs your brain beginning to break?
republicans hate facts Says:
If you mean YOU THE INDIVIDUAL, not so much, but YOU THE GROUP OF TARDS – yep that’s EXACTLY what you did. And you were COMPLICIT, just like the TARDS that brought GWB into office. Even if you aren’t ADULT ENOUGH to ADMIT what a LYING, SMEARING person you ARE PERSONALLY. I’m not SURPRISED, that would required a CONSCIENCE and an INTELLECT, both of which YOU seem devoid of..
You really are psychotic, RHF. Delusions of grandeur, persecution complex . . . seek professional help.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:17 amThis is hilarious!
I love it when RHF does this shit, and then comments on another thread as if he isn’t a slobbering madman.
How kooky!
June 26th, 2008 at 12:17 amrepublicans hate facts Says:
She’s staying out of the focus, and not making Obama look like a fool. She’s nicer to him than I would be…
Actually, she’s campaigning with him so that his financial backers will help bail her out of her $20 million debt. He’s nicer to her than I would be.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:18 amSorry to say it, but so-called “truthers” pretty much ARE either barking-moonbat crazy or really badly informed.
In the latter case it is usually because they have chosen to believe the wrong people and they readily do so because they trust nothing from the Bush goons. Those people, however cannot be given a pass because doing good research is essential to being a responsible member of a political society.
As those of you who know me realize, nobody is a bigger enemy of this administration than I am. I would LOVE to think that the crime of the century was Bush’s doing!
But as an engineer I have examined ALL of the evidence, and listened to all of the arguments on both sides, and you know what? The Truth of 9/11 is that a bunch of Saudi malcontents hijacks some planes and crashed them into targets of high value.
Thats “all” that happened.
And it did not surprise me greatly as I had predicted it on The Mike Malloy Show in June of 2001. I knew that stolen airliners were likely the best way that terrorists could really hurt us badly. Only – I thought they would go after the spent fuel pool at a nuclear power station, or the Union Carbide plant in Institute WV, and they chose targets of symbolic importance instead.
If you want a good summary of the ACTUAL truth of matters, please see my friend Mark Roberts’ excellent site at http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/
Thanks for listening!
-Ben Burch
June 26th, 2008 at 12:18 amhttp://www.whiterosesociety.org/
Hey grasshopper. See what I mean?
June 26th, 2008 at 12:19 amrepublicans hate facts Says:
Wayne Says:
RHF, you are avoiding the real question.
Where was Hillary today, exactly?
She is no longer a candidate, why was she not doing her job?
She’s staying out of the focus, and not making Obama look like a fool. She’s nicer to him than I would be…
Thats a pretty lame excuse when the 4th is at stake.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:19 amThe Democrats ?controlling? Congress could do what the Republicans did when they controlled Congress and strip the retroactive immunity obscenity out of the bill in the Senate/House conference committee, and send this to Bush.
Of course, he’ll veto it, which would indicate to everyone that he cares more about giving retroactive immunity to the telecom companies (and himself) than he cares about protecting U.S. citizens from right-wing terrorists…which, of course, we know already.
This won’t happen, though, because Reid and Pelosi will make certain to pack the Senate/House conference committee with anyone besides those senators and representatives who are vehemently against gutting our Fourth Amendment and giving a get-out-of-jail-free card to the telecom companies and the Bush administration.
We need a House Unamerican Activities Committee again. Oh right, certain House members would only end up investigating and questioning themselves.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:20 amdbadass Says:
Hey grasshopper. See what I mean?
June 26th, 2008 at 12:19 am
Yep. :-D
June 26th, 2008 at 12:21 amHillary Clinton is a Republican — always has been.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:22 amrepublicans hate facts Says:
Last time I check, Hillary hasn’t called Rape grounds for the Death Penalty, and until she does, her stance IS MORE PROGRESSIVE.
You apparently hadn’t checked at all or you wouldn’t have condemned Obama so quickly. Your entire argument above was that the State had no business killing people. Now you want to change the goalposts because Clinton clearly supports the death penalty. So, apparently, you’re OK with the death penalty but only under certain circumstances. If the State can legitimately kill people, why not for the rape of a child?
June 26th, 2008 at 12:23 amrepublicans hate facts Says:
By the way, Hillary did come out and say she would vote against FISA, unlike Obama.
Thats why she didn’t vote against it today,huh?
Guess not voting is the same as voting for it?
pathetic.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:24 amOhhhh, she’s GOING TO VOTE against it.
Well, she’s got the talking done. As per usual…
June 26th, 2008 at 12:27 amI wonder if RHF has a lot of chairs in his living room — so all his personalities have a place to sit. ;)
June 26th, 2008 at 12:29 amWe’ll see an amendment to strip immunity out of the bill. That will probably be Feingold’s.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:30 amIt will be very telling how Obama, Clinton, et al line up on that vote.
There were 5 that didn’t vote, 2 are out medically, 2 are running for president and should have voted, and then there is Hillary.
Put lipstick on that pig, RHF.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:32 amWayne Says:
There were 5 that didn’t vote, 2 are out medically, 2 are running for president and should have voted, and then there is Hillary.
Put lipstick on that pig, RHF.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:32 am
Exactly as I pointed out on TheZoo (in an update to BnF’s post).
June 26th, 2008 at 12:34 amRHF is probably off replenishing his meth level. Maybe he keeps his supply in a different room of the basement.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:38 amOne day, RHF’s heart is going to explode, and it’s going to startle all the voices in his head. For a second or two…
June 26th, 2008 at 12:41 amHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
I know it’s cruel but I do enjoy psychotic breaks.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:44 amHeh.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:47 amThe argument that the FISA bill represents a choice between national security and telecom immunity is a contrived and false one. Telecom immunity should never have been in this bill in the first place, and telecom immunity is the primary reason President Bush is pushing for the passage of this bill. Obama doesn’t want to “appear” weak on national security and is willing to pay the price of losing the ability to expose Bush’s illegal actions of pressuring Telecoms to comply with his illegal eavesdropping program. I think it’s a mistake. I think it’s bad policy. I think it’s a blatant act of political expedience that makes Obama look like just another Washington politician who goes along to get along rather than fight to “change” Washington politics. I’m very disappointed in Barack Obama’s argument that he’s choosing national security over telecom immunity because it’s a contrived false argument. I don’t like the fact that he apparaently accepts that telecom immunity should have been included in the bill at all. The fight against telcom immunity should have prevented this bill from ever coming to a vote.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:51 amOrrin Hatch wrote a song to honor Sun Myung Moon’s efforts.
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/9/29/03943/6196
June 26th, 2008 at 1:06 am
My god I thought this buffoon was dead. he’s been senile for 2 decades. met him a couple times and he couldn’t hold one coherent thought.
June 26th, 2008 at 1:20 amguys, lets drop the hillary vs obama crap. we have bigger fish to fry. zooey, RHF, please join forces so that mccain doesn’t give us a 4th bush term. if the trolls see us fighting amongst ourselves, then they will crawl out from under their bridges
June 26th, 2008 at 1:23 am.
These guardians of Freedom, Liberty and American Rights sure are liberal with dismissing their charges… NO?
I mean, they were elected to PROTECT OUR RIGHTS…
… NOT the protection of corporations’ ability to violate, with impunity, my personal Liberties, Freedoms and Rights
… NOT to provide cover for an out of control Administration that unconstitutionally violates US Code, Constitutional Law and International Law
… NOT to commit TREASON against the Republic and Her People’s inalienable Rights
Why, I’m still waiting to hear from Orin, the merits and values gained by violating the People’s Liberties, Freedoms and Rights, let alone that of the Republics’.
.
June 26th, 2008 at 1:46 amThe myth persists that Democrats and Republicans comprise our two-party system in this country, however, this is merely an illusion. The real two-party system consists of corporatists (every Republican and enough Democrats to amass a veto-proof majority, no matter who occupies the Oval Office) and a small minority of true patriots who are tolerated in the same way that many families tolerate a crazy aunt or uncle, who are a harmless combination of entertainment and annoyance. We are supposed to believe that differences of opinion still exist in Washington, D.C., however, the final outcome of each fight is determined before it even begins.
Perhaps it’s no accident that thirteen of the fifteen senators are from blue states, and the remaining two from red states that are currently trending blue (Brown from Ohio, who is 5 1/2 years away from his next election and Harkin from Iowa, who doesn’t stand for re-election for another 3 1/2 years).
According to the most recent polls on pollingreport.com, the relevant approval/disapproval ratings are as follows: George W. Bush 23%/73% (-50%) and Congress 19%/69% (-50%). By contrast, the approval/disapproval ratings for Bush and Congress assigned by their most ardent corporate benefactors would most certainly be radically different. Those who’ve sold out can anticipate a generous thank you note from the telecoms in the form of increased campaign contributions, after all, they would certainly want to keep their best friends in office, would they not?
And this is a government of the people?
The evidence of the disconnect between the people and what is supposed to be their government mounts with each new disappointment excreted from Washington, D.C.
Other than the miniscule increase in the minimum wage (paid for with a pound of flesh), can anyone identify any lasting good news that has come from Foggy Bottom in the past decade?
“The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism–ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.” — Frank Delano Roosevelt
June 26th, 2008 at 2:03 amAccording to a December 5, 2005 article in Capitol Hill Blue, George W. Bush is quoted as screaming to an aide, “Stop throwing the Constitution in my face. It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”
Apparently, the majority of those in Congress agree.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:30 amIf the Democrats could learn SOMETHING from the Republicans, may it be to NOT ALLOW bills such as these to EVER see the light of day…How many bills have the GOP never allowed to come to a vote? Yet Reid says he feels an OBLIGATION to put forth a bill that the majority wants, no matter how flawed to a vote? I wouldn’t be surprised if the GOP laughs behind his back all the time…I know I would be too…
June 26th, 2008 at 2:41 amThat’s rich coming from the man who originated the “magic bullet” hypothesis of the JFK assassination!
June 26th, 2008 at 6:30 amHatch, Stevens, Cheney, McDepends; Prime examples of the Repug party.
Pasty old white guys who are 20th Century men …. in a 21st Century world.
June 26th, 2008 at 7:41 am9/11 was an inside job. And until this country faces the truth about this sunny, Tuesday September morning almost 7 years ago — our infrastructure will continue to crumble, our moral standing in the world (see: secret prisons etc.) will continue to tumble, our economy will continue to tank (At gas approaching $5 a gallon it is obvious BushCo, the gas companies and their Saudi friends are taking all of us for a ride). Of course, at $5 a gallon gas it’s getting more expensive to take that ride to get groceries which are climbing through the roof.
We are living in a corporate military economy. The only one’s now that are making money are the Oil Companies, Bechtel, Haliburton, Blackwater —
9/11 was the Big Lie, The Big Ruse to create another “ism”
We always have to have an enemy; we always have to have an “ism” to fight against. The was on “terror” is phony to the core.
And until a light is shone on 9/11 and a truly independent investigation looks into the LIES of 9/11 we are truly sunk.
19 Muslims with boxcutters taking down America’s financial center, Pentagon etc. is one conspiracy theory.
The US Military aligned with Wall Street, Pakistan and Israel to kill 3,000 of it’s own citizenry.
9/11 was an inside job.
June 26th, 2008 at 8:15 amedited version:
9/11 was an inside job. And until this country faces the truth about this sunny, Tuesday September morning almost 7 years ago — our infrastructure will continue to crumble, our moral standing in the world (see: secret prisons etc.) will continue to tumble, our economy will continue to tank (At gas approaching $5 a gallon it is obvious BushCo, the gas companies and their Saudi friends are taking all of us for a ride). Of course, at $5 a gallon gas it’s getting more expensive to take that ride to get groceries which are climbing through the roof.
We are living in a corporate military economy. The only one’s now that are making money are the Oil Companies, Bechtel, Haliburton, Blackwater —
9/11 was the Big Lie, The Big Ruse to create another “ism”
We always have to have an enemy; we always have to have an “ism” to fight against. The war on “terror” is phony to the core.
And until a light is shone on 9/11 and a truly independent investigation looks into the LIES of 9/11 we are truly sunk.
19 Muslims with boxcutters taking down America’s financial center, Pentagon etc. is one conspiracy theory.
The US Military aligned with Wall Street, Pakistan and Israel to kill 3,000 of it’s own citizenry is another conspiracy theory.
9/11 was an inside job
June 26th, 2008 at 8:16 amOrrin Hatch mocks those who value the fourth amendment. I wonder how he would feel if the amendment on the chopping block was the second one? I wonder how he would feel about having that amendment pretty much gutted for “homeland security”, and I wonder if when his side insisted on “onerous oversight provisions” to keep from losing the freedom to bear arms completely, the other side mocked him as a tin foil hat wearer?
Make you a deal, Senator. You willingly give up the freedom your side holds so dear, and then we’ll talk.
June 26th, 2008 at 8:19 amTheRadicalRightisRadicallyWrong Says:
My wife took the nailfile and told me as we walked away, “you’re not aloud out in public anymore.”
I’d be damn proud to be seen in public with you :)~
June 26th, 2008 at 9:43 amI hope Orin is ready to return to private life. Americans are tired of Bush, the GOP and the neocons and everyone who supports them. The up coming elections are going to be a huge win for all Dems and people such as nutty Hatch will be jettisoned.
June 26th, 2008 at 9:45 amPeople always spell his name wrong its, Whorin Hatch!
June 26th, 2008 at 9:45 amKay,
Not boxcutters; Huge freaking fuel-filled jetliners.
“Truthers” always seem to forget that part.
We always deny things we cannot accept.
-Ben
June 26th, 2008 at 9:48 amMany of the most fervent Second Amendment supporters will likely cheer the end of all other amendments, not realizing that once that is accomplished, there will be little to prevent the ending of their most cherished amendment.
If freedom of speak out against governmental actions, the freedom of news publications to air opposing points of view, the opportunity for like-minded individuals to assemble and then be able to exercise these rights without having mail, phone, and other means of communications monitored have vanished, what would stop a corrupt government if they decided to confiscate all guns? The people would be told that this is a temporary measure necessary to ensure our safety. The people could be directed to turn them in voluntarily or suffer grave consequences. Citizens could be suddenly and randomly detained without charge, but tortured repeatedly until they turn over names of those they believe to still harbor weapons. And, then be able to enter your home whether you are there or not, search the premises and confiscate anything and everything thought to be contrary to the aims of the government. This has already been practiced in Afghanistan and Iraq for several years, and perhaps in other locations that our government will never divulge to us.
“He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.” — Thomas Paine
“All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.” — Thomas Jefferson
“The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home.” — James Madison
June 26th, 2008 at 9:57 amNo buildings other than the 3 World Trade bldgs have ever come down due to fire.
They all came down at free fall into their own imprint.
Repeat after me: controlled demolition.
June 26th, 2008 at 9:58 amDearest Ben,
You seem to be in denial, too.
That our lovely government would ever harm it’s own citizenry.
See: Operation Northwoods.
June 26th, 2008 at 9:59 am##131 —
Jet fuel is a hydrocarbon that is very similar to kerosene. If such fuels could generate sufficient temperatures to melt steel, then your kerosene heater would melt within an hour or less, and the metal grate in your fireplace would become a puddle of molten iron.
And did you hear about any parts of the planes that were found in the wreckage? Is is not just a little unnerving that jet fuel could generate enough heat to cause the complete destruction of an airplane, including the engines?
And what’s your explanation for WTC7?
“Only puny secrets need protection. Big discoveries are protected by public incredulity.” — Marshall McLuhan
June 26th, 2008 at 10:07 am#133: no steel framed bldgs, that is.
June 26th, 2008 at 10:07 amKay,
steel buildings fail in fires ALL the time. Literally ALL the time. The “no steel building” thing is just plain disinfo. Ask ANY firefighter. Seriously. Go right now down to the local firehouse and ask the firemen there how steel buildings behave in fires. They would actually rather go in under a burning timber roof than a steel one!
-Ben
June 26th, 2008 at 10:09 amcurmudgeon,
The jet fuel was just a STARTER for the fire, like your charcoal lighting fluid. The steel failed due to a class-one office fire, and those absolutely do allow steel to reach the failure point; And quite quickly too. We are NOT talking about melting steel, we are talking about softening it to where it is less strong than it needs to be to resist the forces of the building. In towers 1 & 2 floors softened to the point of sagging, the sagging pulled in the exterior load-bearing walls to the point of buckling and it was all over. A number of engineers that morning KNEW what would happen and actually tried to warn the FDNY, but owning to a complete breakdown of communications could not ge through to them. The results were unremarkable to those who understand such buildings.
-Ben
June 26th, 2008 at 10:14 amOn WTC7? It was heavily damaged by falling debris and the burned for hours and hours. By 1 PM FDNY used a transit to take sights on the building and found it to be leaning and bulging; and at that point they knew it was going to fall and established a collapse zone all around it.
Once again, prolonged intense fires are a disaster for a modern steel building. When we went away from masonry and terracotta to protect steel in buildings and went to drywall and spray on fluff to save money, we made all large steel buildings into death traps.
-Ben
June 26th, 2008 at 10:22 amActually, I just put the foil “inside” my hat. :)
June 26th, 2008 at 10:29 am#139 –
Other examples of steel-framed buildings that have collapsed due to fires? Please provide them. If you are correct, then perhaps the time and expense for controlled demolitions can be avoided by merely setting the condemned buildings on fire.
Perhaps you have an explanation for the following WTC7 report on 9/11 as well:
June 26th, 2008 at 10:43 amhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqqhX8gkhE0
#139 —
This video of BBC reporting on 9/11 is much shorter. Please check it out and report back to us.
June 26th, 2008 at 10:46 am#139 —
Sorry. Here’s the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejjySUVOGKA&feature=related
June 26th, 2008 at 10:47 am#139 —
On September 11th, Rudy Giuliani indicated to Peter Jennings that he had been warned about the collapse of the World Trade Center Tower BEFORE it collapsed. Yes, it would seem that his communication system worked (however, it didn’t for the fire fighters who were trapped in the towers).
Should you wish to see the video for yourself, you can find it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLNtvOKdjsE
June 26th, 2008 at 10:53 amNo, the radio system was chaos. You can listen to it yourself, if you like; All of the recordings are on the firehouse magazine web site.
June 26th, 2008 at 11:06 amcurmudgeon,
the list of steel buildings that have failed in fires would go to the hundreds of thousands if I listed them all. If you do not believe me, GO ASK THE LOCAL FIREHOUSE.
And there is no way you want an UNCONTROLLED collapse of a building by allowing it to burn! You pollute the air, risk setting other buildings alight, and as we saw on 9/11 they absolutely will not fail in a neat way in their own property lines if they are tall buildings. Thats a ridiculous idea.
One note, before the second tower fell, the police chopper saw what was about to happen and warned. That warning also failed to relay to personnel on the ground, such was the chaos. He saw the exterior walls GLOWING and being pulled in by the sagging floors. You can clearly see that pulling-in in some of the video.
-Ben
June 26th, 2008 at 11:13 amArn Gunnutes,
I answered about WTC 7 already. You can find more on http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/
-Ben
June 26th, 2008 at 11:14 amand what about all the reports of multiple explosions and reporting on bombs going off?
June 26th, 2008 at 11:53 amhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw&feature=related
BuckarooBanzai
Ever been at a big fire? Things that are not bombs go BOOM in fires. Again, go to the local firehouse and ask the firemen there if things that sound like bombs don’t happen in routine fires every day.
-Ben
June 26th, 2008 at 12:14 pmbenburch:
June 26th, 2008 at 12:20 pmThen why is the fire department on camera saying they were bombs?
What exactly could be exploding in that building? Besides fuel tank in the B5 level, there wouldn’t be much that would be exploding. Not like financial firms keep drums of gasoline in there offices.
That would have been the fuel tank for the generator. But there were no fires down there, so don’t tell me that is what happened. Firemen saying ‘there is a bomb in the building’ is interesting. Who was telling them that? This was set up to blame terrorists for also putting bombs in the building.
June 26th, 2008 at 12:27 pmIf there were bombs, why don’t they show up in audio recordings? Because they do not.
And where is the explosive residue?
And why did trained demolition experts who removed the wreck not see any bomb damage? (They would know just what it looked like!)
Also, I think you are parsing what they said incorrectly. Things that sound like bombs usually are not, but you will still use that simile for them. And remember what they had been though in 1993. Of COURSE you would suspect a bomb after that.
Things that are not fuel tanks go BANG in a fire, BB, when there is incomplete combustion, the producer gases from that can accumulate and go off in an explosion. That is what a backdraft is. Compressed air tanks can go boom. Aerosol cans can go boom. Lead acid batteries (of which there were thousands) can go boom. Cleaning chemicals can go boom. And steel members failing catastrophically go boom too. Things go boom in fires ALL THE TIME and they sound JUST like bombs.
But physics shows it is only the airliners and resulting fires that did this horrific thing. Its a mathematical certainty.
-Ben
June 26th, 2008 at 12:37 pmHatch actually said Bush was a “wonderfully good man.” Check, please!
June 26th, 2008 at 12:45 pmBen’s been imbibing some bad kool-aid…
June 26th, 2008 at 12:53 pmBenburch society,
How did floor 13,14,15 fall again?
Were they on fire?
Were they hit by a plane?
Or did they crumble from the debris thrown out of the collapsing floors above.?
Was it the displaced weight?
Or did they give because of the reducing weight from that thrown out debris?
.
June 26th, 2008 at 1:03 pmWhy was the debris shipped to China before a single forensics expert could look at it?
According to the laws of physics, the building could not have collapsed at free fall.
June 26th, 2008 at 1:06 pm911 was an Inside Job
June 26th, 2008 at 1:25 pmThe free fall thing is a lie.
The buildings collapsed at about 35% slower than free fall.
-Ben
June 26th, 2008 at 1:29 pmctcadguy,
Say that ALL you want, and it still won’t be true.
Sorry.
Wish it were because I’d love to see Bush in prison!
But I don’t let my wishes blind me to reality as most “truthers” do.
-Ben
June 26th, 2008 at 1:30 pmBen,
There are many, almost endless questions. The physics aspect is just a red-herring.
For starters: Why was the “evidence” shipped away without investigative inspection? Why no investigation until the Whitehouse finally relented, formed their own commission, then stonewalled it anyway? What about the NORAD wargames taking place that day involving highjacked planes and how that coincides with Administration officials claiming that “no one knew” that planes could be used? Too many questions, but we can start there.
June 26th, 2008 at 1:50 pm9/11 Inside job ….hmmm lets see
1. Why were bomb sniffing dogs removed from the Trade Centre two weeks before the attacks???
2. If you watch and time the buildings colapes it’s 10 sec…free fall speed…NOT ONE ENGINEER IN THE COUNTRY SAID A BUILDING CAN NOT COME DONW AT FREE FALL SPEED UNLESS THE BUILDING IS SET UP (DEMOLISHION) TO FALL IMMEADATELY. If A CUE BALL TAKES 8SEC TO FALL FROM 110 FLOORS HOW COULD A BUILDING 110 STORIES FALL WITHIN 1 1/2 SECONDS????
3. Building 7 – with only two small fires, and less then 2% of the building damaged, collapses five hours after initial attack??? The filmed collapse was taken to Europian Engineers (without the knowledge of which building was being destroyed)and asked whether the collapse was staged or a free fall event from damage? Well all the engineers said it was a perfect demolishion…afterwards, they were informed it was building 7 from the world trade centre.
4. Why was there not testimony from 9/11 survivors or first hand eyewitness accounts????
5. Why were there no airplane parts at the Pentigon????
6. Why was it not reported that one of the supposedly terrorists who’s picture was posted as one of the terrorist, shows up in pakistan and says I’m not a terrorist and I’m alive???
7. How could jet fuel (caraseen)melt a plane when that fuel has the lowest burning rate of fuels?????
I could go on…but I don’t want to look like a 9/11 inside job freek….no not me…im to smart for that.
I don’t believe in false flag attacks….naaa our government would never come up with a way to take away rights, and have full control of laws with out a fight. Naaa…
WAKE UP AMERICA. http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com watch the master plan being unfolded (2hrs in lenght). Make sure time code says 2:02 for full lenght documentory. You will be changed forever.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:06 pm*sigh* none of those seven points are relevant and most are simply untrue. There were bomb dogs at work that very morning in the towers, for example.
You want to believe this stuff so badly that you will believe any lie you are told.
Go investigate for yourself, and by that I mean not on youtube; Go READ the NIST report – ALL of it. And go crack textbooks when there is anything in there you do not understand. Teach yourself the math required to make sense of it. (Only took me four years at University of Chicago.) Go down and talk to some actual fire fighters and ask your questions; If you are respectful they will bend your ear for hours with stuff on the science of fires!
You are being Sheep, folks. The “truth” you are being fed is simply propaganda.
It is very very sad to watch.
-Ben
June 26th, 2008 at 2:12 pmWow, Ben Burch :(
I had no idea you joined forces with the unethical James Randi bunch.
I’m sorry to hear this.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:19 pm“You are being Sheep, folks. The “truth” you are being fed is simply propaganda.”
Yeah, that’s exactly the problem. You have answered nothing.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:23 pmbenburch, it was no where near 35% slower. It was on the order of 10% slower than free fall in a vacuum.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:26 pmNOLIESPLEASE, don’t forget to ask why the CIA visited bin Laden 2 months before the attacks.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RIC111B.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism
June 26th, 2008 at 2:31 pmBenburch:
Why did WTC7 collapse in 7 seconds? That’s right, it must have been all that burning jet fuel.
And please identify what ‘demolition experts’ where in charge of removing the debris. Why would demolition experts be cleaning up/removing evidence?
And how coincidental that there was an exercise involving the scenario of highjacked planes hitting the WTC going on on 9/11. This confused air traffic controllers who asked, is this part of the exercise? Must have been masterful planning on the parts of the terrorists to know that would confuse them. Lucky FEMA was set up NYC on September 10th. Why?
Rudy Guliani being told the building would collapse, before it did?
Sorry, Ben, there are just way too many coincidences to not raise serious questions, especially when the buildings were designed to not only withstand sustained 120mph winds for 24 hours, to say nothing of a wayward jet from La Guardia, which is what it was designed to withstand.
Both Towers fell less than 2 hours of being hit. WTC 7 collapsed 8 hours 45 minutes after NOT being hit or burning intensely. 54 stories just collapse in 7 seconds?
A Presidential Daily Brief states “Bin Laden determined to Attack” US, planes may be used, WTC target. 35 days later, there is an attack of that very same nature?
The Project for the New American Century, members of which were at the core of this administration, stated regarding their desire to ‘transform’ (invade and occupy) Iraq and Iran, in the report “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” published in 2000, “…the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor”. Wow, not only later that year was a President ‘elected’ that shared these views, but less than 1 year from publishing the report, the very catalyzing event they sought occured, uniting the country. What are the odds?
Ben, whatever medication you are on, I would love some, because I would love to deny that something rotten has happened and the majority do not want to even contemplate that this could have happened.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:41 pmMark Roberts – NYC Tour Guide. An expert. Ohhh-Kaaay.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:44 pmAlso recall that security was shut down (building power down) the weekend before 9/11 to install new cable, and as was pointed out earlier, the bomb-sniffing dogs were already gone. As a point of interest, Marvin Bush (GW’s brother) had been on the board of Securacom, the company providing the security for the buildings.
June 26th, 2008 at 3:16 pmI find it ironic that a year ago, most of the posters on this site were labeling those of us who refused to believe the official version, as kooks. Many comments suggesting an inside job were quickly deleted. What happened?
June 26th, 2008 at 3:19 pmThe power-down never happened. That is a lie and we can show tickets sold for the observation deck DURING the supposed power down.
And the towers were 35% slower than free-fall. You have to compute free fall IN AIR – go do it. The equations are not hard.
WTC7 did not fall in 7 seconds; The plaza-facing side was falling before it became obvious from the side the videos were taken from. You can clearly see that the penthouse structure disappears seconds before it looks like the building is coming down.
And Kira; Mark Roberts *is* an expert on 9/11 truth because he has taken the time to learn the actual truth. Anybody can be an expert on anything they set their minds to be an expert on. The JREF people are among the most honest folks I have ever run across; Utterly and completely ethical.
Sorry, folks, but the REAL story of 9/11 is exactly what Noam Chomsky says it is; Decades of US Imperialism coming home to roost, combined with an utter failure of government at all levels. (Not surprising when you consider that the government was being run by the stupidest man to ever hold that position.)
-Ben
June 26th, 2008 at 4:28 pmIdyll:
Add that Marvin Bush’s company also provided security screeners for United Airlines, as well as Dulles Airport.
As for the kooks comment, I believe that there are just way too many things about 9/11 that don’t add up and more people are at least questioning the ‘official’ and inadequate investigation.
The WTC was designed to withstand a 707 fuel of fuel crashing into it. Not much smaller than a 757. Maybe if one tower fell that’s one thing, but 2 not withstanding the crash. WTC 7 is what puts me over to the top. And the fact that WTC7 contained offices of the FBI, Department of Defense, IRS (which contained prodigious amounts of corporate tax fraud, including Enron’s), US Secret Service, Securities & Exchange Commission (with more stock fraud records), and Citibank’s Salomon Smith Barney, the Mayor’s Office of Emergency Management and many other financial institutions. Remember all those put orders on Airline stocks prior to 9/11?
Is it odd that the FBI’s most wanted list has this to say about Osama? “Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world.”
Wow, nothing about 9/11? Why?
June 26th, 2008 at 4:32 pmAnother “Mission Accomplished” for the bad guys as they managed to achieve another victory against American Freedom, while the list of “Mission Accomplished” for the US centers around establishing the rights to Iraqi’s oil fields. Thank you Congress for giving away our freedoms because you were more worried about winning your next election than you were doing the duty you swore to do when you were first elected to Congress, protecting the constitution.
June 26th, 2008 at 4:46 pmBenburch Einstein,
You’re wrong.
In a vacuum, it would have taken the towers 9.2 seconds to collapse in free fall, and it would take longer through air. I’m really surprised you didn’t know this. The towers took approximately 10 seconds to fall, which is a good estimate of free fall, when one allows for air friction. Hence they fell at roughly free fall.
The equation is not that hard.
Show us a link proving there was no power down. Here are some of mine:
http://69.28.73.17/thornarticles/powerdown.html
http://www.911review.com/articles/griffin/nyc1.html
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/339746/power_down_in_trade_centers_weekend_before_9_11/
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/DemolitionWTC.htm
http://www.911blimp.net/prf_FreeFallPhysics.shtml
June 26th, 2008 at 7:45 pmBuckarooBanzai, I had forgotten about those connections with Securacom.
June 26th, 2008 at 7:48 pmBottom Line!
Sen. Oral Snatch is one useless RePugniScum corporate fascist, Utah, More-moron that must be removed from office!!!!!
He’s a gawd damned Morman cult member.
Mormans are racist, cult members founded in religious scams and crime in upstate NY!!! Their march to Utah was to out run the law!!!!!!!!
June 26th, 2008 at 8:02 pmIdyll,
That is what I said. LONGER IN AIR.
Are you dense?
Assuming the top bit of WTC-1 weighed one-fifth of the total weight of the tower, or 100,000,000 pounds, and that the cross-sectional area in the direction of travel was 43264 sq ft (208 squared), that the drag coefficient was 0.7, and that the height of fall was 1,368 feet, we come up with a terminal velocity of 158 ft/second.
(Calculator is here; http://exploration.grc.nasa.gov/education/rocket/termvr.html )
Calculating the free-fall time with that terminal velocity we get a free fall time of 11 seconds.
The standard estimate of the time of the tower to fall is 15 seconds. 15 seconds is NOWHERE near 11 seconds. Not even CLOSE to 11 seconds. In fact it is 36% more.
So, I’ve just shot down the free fall argument.
And if you are gonna argue against it, you’d better find fault with that calculation. Anything else is the desperate attempt of a true believer resorting to the Gospel According To Jones.
-Ben
June 26th, 2008 at 8:15 pmLink please
June 26th, 2008 at 9:47 pmBenburch says:
Your set of facts!
100,000,000 pounds…
Where did you get the weight of that “top bit”? That “top bit”… is it the top 1/5? Was the top 1/5 as heavy as the bottom 1/5? Or are you averaging your facts?
The lower sections were built with thicker, denser weight steel than the “Top Hat” or the upper third of the building just below the “Top Hat” section.
However so, you arrived at a number… and from THAT number, you calculated…
Please show me how you arrived at 100,000,000 pounds?
Or can we ASSUME that the top 1/5 was lighter than the base?
June 27th, 2008 at 12:04 amWould this change the velocity any?
Ben Burch,
As I said, I’m extremely disappointed to find you, of all people, joined at the hip with the JREF organization. They are non-ethical in the sense of being contrary to conscience, social and professional behavior.
You, of all people :(
You run a website named for White Rose – a group of people who were dedicated to disseminating the truth while living underneath an oppressive society ruled by Goebbels’ Ministry of Propaganda.
Yet you, Ben Burch, are using the term “Truther” in a derogatory way – as a smear.
You, Ben Burch, delight in calling those of us who are seeking the TRUTH “Moonbats who poison the well.”
Moonbats – please. That’s straight out of Freeperville. You have joined forces with the Dark Side. You are truly a Left Gatekeeper as you proudly proclaim at JREF.
This is so anti-productive to any discovery of TRUTH. It is wrong to inhibit questioning on any subject that might come up – even ideas that may seem crazy to you. There’s a lot of CRAZY to explore in the DOD and elsewhere.
I will wear the badge of “Truther” with honor — even though I do not belong to any organization.
If you think “Truther” is something derogatory, what badge do you wear? Non-truther?
Thanks, but no thanks.
June 27th, 2008 at 2:47 pmBen Burch #173 says: And Kira; Mark Roberts *is* an expert on 9/11 truth because he has taken the time to learn the actual truth. Anybody can be an expert on anything they set their minds to be an expert on.
Wow! I didn’t know this — I’m an expert on 9/11. I’ve been studying 9/11 intensely for the past 4+ years. I also have the advantage of having bona fide structural engineers in my family. They find the work by Journal of 9/11 Studies and Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth the most compelling.
Unfortunately, most of the evidence has been destroyed – a first for any major disaster in the US.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:05 pmBen Burch,
To clarify – I said, the JREF organization – non-ethical in the sense of being contrary to conscience, social and professional behavior.
I mean that specifically in the context of the rest of my comment at #183 – specifically the juvenile Freeper tactics used to denigrate people who have differing viewpoints.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:09 pm