WTF were you trying to say with this:

Llama,
Daniel Pearl was beheaded by this KSM guy who’s currently in Gitmo, at least according to his own admission. He’s clearly a terrorist. He bragged about holding the guys bloody severed head. Its a legit point to bring up. Just deal with it.

How did this further debate on the question of due process?

And WTF am I supposed to “deal with” in that?

Is that “debate”?

Mr.NiceGuy Says:

Llama,
Daniel Pearl was beheaded by this KSM guy who’s currently in Gitmo, at least according to his own admission. He’s clearly a terrorist. He bragged about holding the guys bloody severed head. Its a legit point to bring up. Just deal with it.

Deal with what? You seem to have misread what I and others have been saying.

No one has said that KSM should go free or that he is not a bad guy.

What we have been saying over and over is that you claiming on a blog that “He bragged about holding the guys bloody severed head” is not proof in a court of law. It’s proof of nothing.

He’s a bad guy, sure. People like that should be easy to convict. Why should this nation squander what’s left of the international respect we once held over pieces of filth like that?

“Not sure what that was about.”

It was about holding an American citizen, for years, without trial, as you claimed we weren’t.

Who should get to decide which “class” of American citizen has the right to a trial?

Well, I’m glad that we can agree on something, but I guess you’ve never heard of Jose Padilla.

“We aren’t talking about someone down the street pulled out of their bed and whisked away in a van like in the former soviet union.”

Actually we are. Many of the people in Gitmo were there because a neighbor had a grudge and they were rounded up in a raid with no real evidence against them. Not everyone was on a “battlefield” per se. That’s where your argument falls apart. The “legal” term “enemy combatant” does not simply pertain to an enemy on the battlefield as it seems to imply. The actual language applies to whoever the State Dept (Bush Administration) labels as such. That’s why we are so “livid” and you should be as well. Why wait for it to happen to more American citizens, on a much grander scale?

Actualy , no I do not trust my government at all. The way they let us down pre-911 was atrocious. But that’s not the only reason. I could go on all day about all the ways my government lets me down. The people in our government are generally pretty awful, regardless of their party affiliation.

Anyway I understand your concern however it is thus far unwarranted because we aren’t locking up our neighbors nor are we holding American people without trial. I would hope that our pathetic media would help shed light on it if the government was doing these things to Americans, but the media seems more concerned over treatment of the terrorists. Perhaps there no smoke because there’s no fire.

Enemy combatant terrorists captured on the battlefield, that’s who were talking about. We aren’t talking about someone down the street pulled out of their bed and whisked away in a van like in the former soviet union.

belac,
Your of course correct; we’re a nation of laws. We agree. We simply may disagree about with whom our constitution actually applies. I think it applies to US citizens and people arrested on US soil and I would never think that we would be so silly as to extend our constitutional rights to enemy combatants on a foreign battlefield.

Llama,
Daniel Pearl was beheaded by this KSM guy who’s currently in Gitmo, at least according to his own admission. He’s clearly a terrorist. He bragged about holding the guys bloody severed head. Its a legit point to bring up. Just deal with it.

“I understand that we are not locking up any of our neighbors in Gitmo. If we were, I would be livid.”

The Patriot Act currently allows for it, though. I think we actually disagree because you trust our Government to use the same discretion that you personally would in their position.

Also, if all of the people in Gitmo are guilty, evil terrorists, then why have so many been released? You can’t put the cart before the horse. They’re not guilty just because they’re in Gitmo… especially without a proper trial or being allowed to question the evidence of their detention.

Mr.NiceGuy Says:

Llama,
Yes belac makes very polite and thoughtful conversation, unlike many here.
I haven’t ignored any of belac’s points. On the contrary I’ve discussed, challenged and often disagreed with them. That’s the point of the comments right? Or.. is intended to be nothing more than a place to hear your own ideology simply regurgitated back to you?

Bullsh!t. For starters, you completely ignored belac’s response to your “I would say that KSM is a terrorist” bit. belac astutely pointed out that your say-so carries no weight with the international community. You followed up by demanding that we ask Daniel Perl’s widow if he’s a terrorist.

You never acknowledged that due process demands proof — evidence that must be examined and a judgment reached. You continue to offer emotional points instead of dealing rationally with the arguments that belac has soberly offered up — frustration with your slowness of comprehension notwithstanding.

If that’s how you “discuss and challenge” I’d hate to see you throw a tantrum.

June 25th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

Chalk it up to TP’s new “bullshit and stupidity meter” that nabbed you before you burnt it out……….

June 25th, 2008 at 4:05 pm

No , gullible clueless wonder

Those that killed my neighbors in NY were from Saudi Arabia ; we’re not in Saudi Arabia , in case you didn’t know that (and judging by your ignorance , you don’t know that).

I’m hypocritically pious?

Well, I find you blithely and willfully ignorant with a tendency to over-siplify complex world affairs…

The fact is we are a country of laws… being attacked shouldn’t be used as an excuse to dismiss those laws, even if the attackers are really, really bad. And especially not if, as many have claimed, those laws and protections are the very thing our attackers despise most about us.

June 25th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

You want that you should be treated nicely here after outright lying ; yet believe that those being held unconditionally somehow “deserve it” or that their incarceration is somehow justified ?

Could you be a more selfish , pathetic worm ?

Classic.

Mr.NiceGuy Says:

One reason is that the whole discovery issue would likely present national security concerns. However, I’m all for closed door military tribunals, as I’ve said before.

Oh, forgive me for misinterpreting your support for due process. I may have been confused by your saying this:

Yea, that’s how America deals with its enemies when we’re attacked. We didn’t give them lawyers, we eliminated them.

My bad.