After Trying To Steal Credit For Webb’s GI Bill, McCain Skips The Vote And Instead Chows Down On Chili In Ohio
After Trying To Steal Credit For Webb’s GI Bill, McCain Skips The Vote And Instead Chows Down On Chili In Ohio
Earlier this month, House leaders struck a deal to push forward with Sen. Jim Webb’s (D-VA) GI Bill, which expanded generous educational benefits for veterans. The House deal also included a provision allowing troops to transfer the benefits to family members.
Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) was one of the most vocal opponents of Webb’s bill, claiming it was too generous and would lead to a drop in military retention. Yet when the House deal was announced, McCain tried to take credit for it:
With the addition of the transferability provisions sought by Senators Graham, Burr, myself and others to give service members the right to transfer earned G.I. Bill benefits to spouses and children, we will have achieved in offering vastly improved educational benefit.
As if trying to steal credit for Webb’s GI Bill wasn’t bad enough, McCain yesterday skipped the Senate vote on the legislation, which passed 92-6. The only other senator not present for the vote was Ted Kennedy (D-MA), who is battling a brain tumor.
What was McCain doing instead yesterday? In addition to holding a town hall meeting at Xavier University in Cincinnati, he also took some time to chow down at Skyline Chili:
McCain has not voted in the Senate since April 8 and has missed 367 votes (61.4 percent) during the current Congress.
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McCain 08: Less jobs, more war
June 27th, 2008 at 3:41 pmI hate chili with chocolate in it.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:43 pmMcCain is a surrender monkey.
He surrendered to the Viet Cong. He’ll surrender us to the Islamic Fundamentalists.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:43 pmAnd that is exactly why legislators should have to resign, or appoint a proxy, to run for higher office. The day to day operation of the government should have precedence over personal glory.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:44 pmwow – I knew he was getting on in years – but learning how to wear a bib is important for McCain in the coming years!!!
June 27th, 2008 at 3:44 pm.
Take note:
ANOTHER MISSED VOTE!
.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:44 pmMcCain’s looking at that spoonful of chili like he’s picturing how it’s gonna feel comin’ out the other end.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:45 pm.
Dear Arazona,
How is this man Representing you when instead of Representing you he’s busy stuffing his mouth?
.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:46 pmI don’t know about the rest of you…but I am very quickly coming to *loathe* that new and improved Sack of Shite™ McBush very nearly as much as I loathe the original Sack of Shite™ Bush.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:48 pmot but digby
reminds us of an
anniversary we missed.
three years.
time flies.
*
good luck.
¶
June 27th, 2008 at 3:52 pmAnd when the news media get finished with this story, McCain will have been the original sponsor – and his opposition to it, and failure to vote on it won’t even be mentioned. (Webb won’t be mentioned at all, in connection with it.) Just like when he was opposing the anti-torture bill, and encouraging Bush to veto it – but tv news said he sponsored and voted FOR it. News people project onto McCain what they WANT him to be, and ignore what he is – Bush’s clone.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:57 pmNobody can make a Maverick vote!
June 27th, 2008 at 3:59 pmAnd I’m sure the guy next to him in camouflage is his BFF and not some slug they picked for the photo op. Only a rethug would put on his hunting gear to go to an event with a nominee for president.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:59 pmThese people have the nerve to call Democrats elitist but how could we ever be backwards or backwoods enough to fit in with this bunch.
If McCain can’t vote and be a part of the solution….
Johnnie ToughTalk strikes again, this time at himself!
June 27th, 2008 at 4:01 pmGrampy McSame says – My friends back in the day we didn’t need education for our guys, no sir, not at all, why we would gather our best sticks and rocks and make our own stone tablets to learn from, why a close friend of mine invented fire, now a days we all know how to make fire, and that’s how we make chili, yummy chili, I like lots of beans in my chili, and they didn’t have beans in that GI Bill, so I didn’t vote for it, no sir, I went somewhere where they had beans, and I love my beans, so I voted on a bowl of chili, that’s what I did, not those loafer Iraq GI’s, they are soft and lazy freeloaders, and who needs all those limbs anyway…uh, oh… I think I sat in a bowl of chili…I hope.
You really are making so much more sense today grampy.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:03 pmDon’t expect McIIIrd to show up in the Senate until late November. The job of running for president takes a full five days a week, weekends off. You’d think with polls showing him losing by double digits in key Mid-Northern states that he’d at least start working weekends, like millions of Americans have to do to make ends meet.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:04 pmNot that he’s an elitist or anything.
I still think the country is better off with McNutzi not voting — especially since his long absence give Obama a good comback when McNutzi tries to use his “vast time in the senate” as an advantage. Would prefer that he find another city to haunt tho’
June 27th, 2008 at 4:04 pmOh, yeah, and McIIIrd supports the troops, as long as that support involves stealing credit for something he had no hand in crafting, and failing to show up to vote for it.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:05 pmI see Obama made a special trip to give it a vote
Proving how easy it is to show your support for those serving and just how much the lying piece of sh*t McCain doesn’t and is nothing but all talk and no action.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:06 pmTo be perfectly fair, this measure didn’t really need McCain’s vote to pass or fail. When one is busy running for president, I can excuse missing votes except when the vote is going to be close and one vote would really make a difference.
That said, however — McCain’s behavior still disturbs me. He first co-sponsored the Webb bill, then became non-committal when asked about his support. Then after an unusually long time of not commenting, he came out against it because he claimed it would lead to our troops leaving the military in droves. Then he tried to claim credit for it. And then didn’t bother to show his support by voting for it, even though his opponent (also running for president) managed to carve some time out of his schedule for it.
This is more than just missing a vote. This is attempting to pander to so many different people while at the same time refusing to get nailed down. McCain has moved from flip-flopping to playing dodge ball.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:07 pmWow. And I thought rogerse was stupid.
Yeah, it tends to be “politically easy” to vote in favor of bills that have wide public support and that address problems with the way BushCo has treated the military.
And yes, it does take political courage to vote against the bills.
But you say “I think McCain had a great reason to not vote In favor of it .”
Yet McCain DIDN’T vote against it. He just didn’t vote ON it.
And if he had such a great reason to vote against it, why is he trying to take credit for the bill’s passage?
Sheesh. Can we get any smarter trolls, please?
June 27th, 2008 at 4:09 pmS_Mart
Yeah, McCain is finding lots of “good” reasons for not showing up to vote. He’s stuffing “Benjamin’s” in his trousers like he’s on a game show and put in a tornado machine with the money flying about, knowing he can keep what he still has on him after 30 seconds.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:09 pmTypical empty suite politician!!
Empty Suite? Has Obama not spent enough time in the Marriot for you?
and a suite? isn’t that a little elitist?
Still, I prefer the ‘empty suited politician’ to the empty headed, empty suited, empty conscienced variety of politician that McCain exemplifies…
June 27th, 2008 at 4:10 pmOh, goodie! New trolls showing up every day! Wonder why?
From crooksandliars.com:
On McCain’s “Blog Interact” page, where the candidate’s supporters can find recommended blogs of all ideological stripes, the campaign is actually awarding points for trolling.
Help spread the word about John McCain on news and blog sites. Your efforts to help get the message out about John McCain’s policies and plan for the future is one of the most valuable things you can do for this campaign. You know why John McCain should be the next President of the United States and we need you to tell others why.
Select from the numerous web, blog and news sites listed here, go there, and make your opinions supporting John McCain known. Once you’ve commented on a post, video or news story, report the details of your comment by clicking the button below. After your comments are verified, you will be awarded points through the McCain Online Action Center.
The site even has “Today’s Talking Points” that McCain supporters can cut and paste into the comments sections of liberal blogs.
So, blogging for points… What a bunch of buffoons!
PEACE
June 27th, 2008 at 4:11 pmYou can criticize McCain, but I won’t stand for your slanderous remarks regarding the chili.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:12 pmI’ve said it before, and I’ll say it often, McPander Bear has lost his mind, his principles, or both. His lust for the Presidency has unbalanced him. He isn’t qualified to preside over a chili cook off, much less a government.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:14 pmI’m a chili elitist.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:15 pmKY_Mart, did you even read the post. McCain hasn’t voted since April 4 and has missed 367 votes.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:15 pmMcCain just doesn’t vote, period. That means he isn’t fulfilling a sworn Constitutional duty as Senator. But I guess it’s all okay to not vote on any policy matters when you’re trailing in the race for the office of president.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:15 pmAh, rogerse has wisely decided to get back within his comfort zone — copying and pasting others’ comments.
Good call. He’ll take fewer hits this way, let the bruises and dislocated limbs heal a bit.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:16 pmSee what I mean? rogerseses, the cut-and-paste wiz, must be racking up the McCain blog points! Bet he’s getting close enough for a free Big Mac!
PEACE
June 27th, 2008 at 4:16 pm1/2_Smart, why exactly should anybody vote against a bill to support the troops? And how does that show courage depriving others of what they deserve. You really are dumb even for a right wing bootlicker.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:16 pmI have concerns for a candidate incapable of tying his own chili bib. What if the phone rings at 3 am?
June 27th, 2008 at 4:17 pmSupporting the troops is bad in the GOP, m’kay!
June 27th, 2008 at 4:18 pmRUC, they mentioned on the news yesterday that McCain doesn’t work evenings either. He’s only done one evening fundraiser since clinching the nomination. Not exactly an over achiever.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:18 pm“Exactly, and none of the dems thought twice about voting against this bill.”
Why do you not support this bill?
June 27th, 2008 at 4:18 pmBib = confusion
Iran = confusion
Do we see a trend?
June 27th, 2008 at 4:19 pmDon’t worry dbadass, McCain always has a young woman around to “tie his bib” for him.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:19 pmS_mart:
June 27th, 2008 at 4:20 pmHow much courage does it really take to not take a stand on something?
McCain didn’t vote against Webb’s bill… he just didn’t vote at all… now, I’m not one of those whose gonna count the numbner of missed votes and yadda, yadda, yadda- ’cause it’s silly and doesn’t mean anything…
But to claim that McCain is somehow ‘courageous’ for not showing up to vote at all, let alone against it, is even more silly…
Uh, oh, FOOD FIGHT!
June 27th, 2008 at 4:20 pmdbadass Says
June 27th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
I have concerns for a candidate incapable of tying his own chili bib. What if the phone rings at 3 am?
________________________________________________
I suspect that the reason McCain can’t tie his own chili bib is the same reason why he can’t comb his own hair. Vietnam POW injuries have left him unable to raise his arms above his head.
Let’s not hit below the belt here.
On the other hand, what was the bib for? He’s not even wearing it in the second picture — the one showing him actually eating the chili. I suspect it was for some photo-op — Cincinnati’s Skyline Chili is supposed to be a noteworthy place.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:22 pmbelac
McCain is hoping no one (speaking about the general public) will notice he wasn’t in the Senate at those times. Sort of a reverse “Where’s Waldo”.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:23 pmIt’s not gonna work here rog. Give it up.
McPander Bear went so far as to offer competing legislation rather than letting his idiotic base think he supported a “Democrat’s bill”. Regardless of the merit or necessity of that bill. It just might be the stupidest thing that ANY candidate has done in this campaign and I certainly hope our fine young people in uniform learn the truth about how he tried to sell them out for a few radical votes. His conduct regarding this bill is beneath contempt.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:23 pmWhen you’re so senile that you can’t remember which side of the vote you should be on, it’s a whole lot easier not to vote at all.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:25 pmS_mart logic:
McCain doesn’t show up to vote = courageous heroism
Obama leaves campaign trail and flies to Washington to vote = cheap showmanship
McCain gets father to assign him to flight duty, gets shot down and spends years in prison camp = Courageous war hero
Kerry asks for transfer to riverboats, most dangerous duty in the navy, risks his life to save a crewmember under fire and testifies before hostile Congress about Vietnam = cheap showmanship and lies…
What a weird world.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:26 pmS_Mart Says:
Typical empty suite politician!!
You’re right, that’s what McSame is. Funny troll. It calls Obama an empty suit for missing less votes than McSame has missed. I guess that makes McSame an empty/empty suit.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:26 pmMissmolly, it’s too bad they didn’t tie that chili bib much tighter around his neck! That employee must have had an extraordinary amount of self-restraint
June 27th, 2008 at 4:26 pmS_Mart Says:
dim wit Says:
shoeless Says:
I hate chili with chocolate in it.
Speaking of Chocolate did you know the Government has deemed it necessary to spend your hard earned money on cracking the genome of the cocoa bean?
U.S. government scientists are launching a five-year project aimed at safeguarding the world’s chocolate supply by dissecting the genome of the cocoa bean.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Sounds like your president wants to clone his supplies of M&M’s and Snickers and become the Chocolate Emperor of Candy Land!
June 27th, 2008 at 4:27 pm#15 not_so_S_Mart says:
What was Johnny McAbsent’s vote on these bills?
.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:27 pmspencers mom Says
June 27th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
________________________________________________
Hillary’s supporters ran a special site to recruit blog posters for her, too, so this isn’t really a new tactic. Although McCain’s blog posters will have a harder time of it, the talking points change constantly, what with all the flip-flops and all.
How come Obama isn’t offering anything to troll for his campaign? Could it be he doesn’t need to?
June 27th, 2008 at 4:27 pmHe was openly against the Bill .
Then he should have voted ‘no’ that would be courageous…
June 27th, 2008 at 4:27 pmthat stuff about the cacao genome is excellent. Advances in molecular biology have proven incredibly beneficial yet in the wrong hands like Monsanto a little frightening
June 27th, 2008 at 4:27 pm… stupid, but courageous.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:27 pmS_Mart Says:
Don’t worry – as a loyal Bushie, we know that you have no use for science. You don’t need to go off topic to confirm it – it’s a given.
Like hating the poor, the troops and scary brown people, it comes with the territory.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:28 pmJohn McCain still needs a good VP, and the weekly poll at http://www.votenic.com holds a weekly poll. What does America think of Hillary as Vice President? Find out at http://www.votenic.com The only 2008 Presidential Election Weekly Poll run by a kid.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:29 pmI think McCranky is hoping that the 23%ers out there aren’t paying any attention to, well, anything that is really happening and he’s hoping they will just take his word for whatever spews out of his mouth at any given moment.
Sometimes I feel sorry for those 23%ers…….Okay, the moments gone now. Back under the bridge troll. Your powers have no effect here.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:31 pmI like “scary brown people” when they wear nice things to show off their big, curvy woman parts!
They are not like “scary white people” who you don’t want to see walking around, showing off any of there big, flabby whale parts.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:33 pmS_Mart Says
June 27th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
I commend the one’s who opposed it as it would have been very politically easy to vote for it. I think McCain had a great reason to not vote In favor of it . I see Obama made a special trip to give it a vote. Very Surprising because Obama as been absent from voting all the way back until June 4th.
I guess he found all these bill’s not that important to show up and vote Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008, Motion to Invoke Cloture on the Motion to Proceed to Consider H.R. 6049; Renewable Energy and Job Creation Act of 2008, Bond Amdt. No. 4986 As Modified; To clarify that GSEs have no responsibility for funding housing entities under the Affordable Housing program.
Typical empty suite politician!!
_____________________________________
Huh? You are criticizing Obama for his voting record when he has voted more often and more recently than McCain? This makes no sense even by troll standards.
So sad to see a troll derail like this. Take some time out, have an iced tea, gather your thoughts together, and start over.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:33 pmI’m a veteran so that gives me a pass on what I’m about to say about John McCain. He made disloyal statements to the enemy during his captivity and the other prisoners didn’t. I can’t say that I wouldn’t have done the same thing, but he media doesn’t want you to know that he confessed to bombing women, children, and civilian targets. Of course that wasn’t true, but if Obama had done it, the Republicans would be attacking him as a COWARD. Don’t believe it? Look at what they did to John Kerry. He was as much of a hero or more so than McCain, but they made him out to be a coward. The truth of the matter was that George Bush is a coward who avoided war in Viet Nam.
So my point is, John McCain signed a forced confession while other prisorners who were tortured didn’t. As a matter of fact Admiral John Stockdale, who recently died, as was one of the first pilots shot down during the war survived for 8 years in a POW camp. He was tortured, and beaten daily, yet he refused to confess to anything. He was Ross Perot’s running mate if you don’t recall who he was. He was also John McCain’s commanding officer in the POW camp. If fact some of the other POW recented what McCain did, but said that they understood.
Even John McCain has said he was ashamed at having signed a false confession because the other prisoners didn’t and they looked down on him for doing so. So is John McCain a hero? Yes he is, but if the stories where reversed, would the be allowing his party to attack Obama for signed a false confession? I believe he would because he stood listen when his party falsely and shamlessly attack his good friend Sen. John Kerry as a coward. How could a man of honor stand silent when he knows the so called “swift boat vets” were lying through their teeth. John McCain and John Kerry had been really really close friend before the 2004 elections. The silence from John McCain who knew better, speakes volumes about his character. He put party first and his honor is permanently destroyed as far as I’m concerned.
I’d never ever vote for him because he has NO HONOR.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:34 pmIs S_Mart Charlie Black?
June 27th, 2008 at 4:34 pmsectionop92 Says
June 27th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I like “scary brown people” when they wear nice things to show off their big, curvy woman parts!
They are not like “scary white people” who you don’t want to see walking around, showing off any of there big, flabby whale parts.
_________________________________________
Huh??? Are you sure you’re on the right blog?
June 27th, 2008 at 4:35 pm“S_Mart”=lock_box.
Howdy sock puppet. Are we wasting the bandwidth of a different email provider or just using a clone account?
BTW. The cocoa genome project, while it’s being coordinated by the government, has many partners including other governments and corporations including IBM. The reason is to study diseases and other issues with the world cocoa crop. Cocoa, in all it’s uses, is a huge international industry and the whole thing depends on a heavily domesticated and vulnerable plant. They are hoping to avoid a disaster like those which have hit so many crops, from potatoes to grapes, in the past. Spending 10 million up front, to save billions in the future, just makes good sense. It appears that some government employees, seeing the immenent departure of the Incompetent in Chief, are starting to do their jobs again.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:35 pmYo, I_diot, you think you’re being so very clever with your little picture?
Well, here’s the original:
Bush Phone
June 27th, 2008 at 4:35 pmsectionop92 Says:
I like “scary brown people” when they wear nice things to show off their big, curvy woman parts!
Hey, don’t be talking about my booty like that!
June 27th, 2008 at 4:36 pmmisshusseinmolly Says:
Huh??? Are you sure you’re on the right blog?
Should have explained a bit further, I guess. Just a interpretation of white Republican women.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:39 pmsectionop92 Says
June 27th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Should have explained a bit further, I guess. Just a interpretation of white Republican women.
_______________________________________________
Ah. Hey, it’s late on a Friday, and my brain isn’t working as well as it should. I thought for a moment you had something going on with ScaryBrownHusseinChick or something. :-)
June 27th, 2008 at 4:41 pmFirst a bib, next a drool cup…
June 27th, 2008 at 4:43 pmS_Mart Says:
sectionop92 Says:
——————————————————————————–
Is S_Mart Charlie Black?
Bruce Campbell
In your dreams. Ash would spit you out like rotten fruit.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:55 pmAnd what makes you think that McCain isn’t suffering from a brain tumor as well?
June 27th, 2008 at 4:57 pmS_Mart Says:
Don’t worry, I recognize the courage and fortitude that it took to anonymously post your opposition to the cocoa genome project on a web-site… if only there were a vote you could avoid attending on the issue you would be a real hero, but you did your best.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:01 pmNo mister sock puppet. I’m not “touchy”. I do, however, object to assertions that investing in science is trivial or unnecessary and will continue to offer my limited knowledge when someone misrepresents an issue which is of particular interest to me. Plus I sometimes enjoy helping sock puppets make themselves look foolish.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:04 pmNot So S_Mart Says:
I have noting against people who visit the tanning bed often. I will admit I’m a bit scared of an over tanned cougar.
Yep, with the grammar and spelling multiplied with poor typing skills..
Yes it is Lock_Box
June 27th, 2008 at 5:07 pmThis is too easy. Campaign commercial to stress:
Johnny supports the troops and says that he was the bestest little sponsor of the GI Bill.
Cut to video clip of him voicing his opposition to the bill with time and date indicated. Cut to second clip…………
So where was he when the vote was taken – cut to picture of him in the bib.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:21 pmYou don’t really think we are interested in your gay porn or phishing or whatever, do you? Why don’t you go throw rocks at windows or spraypaint a wall like a normal vandal.
Note to TP. When are you going to start blocking IPs?
June 27th, 2008 at 5:23 pmMacINSANE, who is the darling of the media because he gave them a hamburger, which is what they sold out for, is, to use a word that the media should but will never use, a freaking hypocrite. I am sick and tired of hearing about what a hero he is. Heroes, to me, like saints, are people who don’t do one thing and that’s it, but who continue to act in a heroic way all their lives. This fraud didn’t do that. If the media would get their collective noses out of his butt and do their job, then the American people might get to know the real man and not the media driven campaign propaganda. Hero my ass!
June 27th, 2008 at 5:24 pmNote to bloggers: S_Mart has seen fit to start providing “dirty” links. Flag him and do NOT click on his links.
June 27th, 2008 at 5:30 pmMcCain now supports what he never even voted on, when he had a chance to vote on it twice.
How “Bush” of him.
What’s next…trying to fool us that he’s for peace talks with Iran?
June 27th, 2008 at 5:55 pmDon’t worry – that Skyline Chili will exact some revenge. That stuff tastes great going down, but you pay for it over the day or so. And that’s what it does to me, a 31 year old guy in good shape.
I can’t imagine what it’s going to do to a 129 year old man’s GI tract.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:20 pmbobcat_grad Says:
Don’t worry – that Skyline Chili will exact some revenge. That stuff tastes great going down, but you pay for it over the day or so. And that’s what it does to me, a 31 year old guy in good shape.
I can’t imagine what it’s going to do to a 129 year old man’s GI tract.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
They probably came up with a Neocon secret home remedy after SR. yakked all over Japan. My guess is powdered baby bones or something equally vile.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:39 pmThese dumbass photo-ops always crack me up. It reminds of the time Georgie McNoseCandy did that photo-op at the BBQ restaurant years ago. Chimp: “I’m here to order some ribs….”
June 27th, 2008 at 9:18 pmHe is damn busy flipflopping to vote !!!!!!!!!!
June 27th, 2008 at 11:40 pmcaptions:
June 28th, 2008 at 9:17 am(right hand photo)
“Steady…steady…I can do this, I know I can… I think…”
(left hand photo)
“Thanks my friend, that cheesy chili really made a mess, didn’t it?”
Breaking news from the British Journal of Nutsology.
June 28th, 2008 at 9:52 amIt is now a proven scientific fact that being republican is proof positive of insanity says Dr Elmwood Futherthom.
All republicans should be treated, and some can recover.
However die hard bush supporters are beyond help and should be quarantined as soon as possible for the greater good of humanity; these people have lost all signs of being human and have become a danger to themselves and others. If republicans are spotted in your area they should be pointed out to local mental health professionals. The sooner the better. That is all.
Good one Nevar.
June 28th, 2008 at 10:54 amPosting a picture of someone tying a bib on McCain is pretty low TP, considering he can’t raise his arms because the torture he endured as a POW.
June 28th, 2008 at 4:44 pmHow pathetic is it that this man has to eat with a BIB??????
June 29th, 2008 at 3:15 am