America’s unhappy birthday.
America’s unhappy birthday.
As the nation celebrated its 232nd birthday, people across America were more worried about how much is “wrong right now.” The AP writes, “The nation’s psyche is battered and bruised, the sense of pessimism palpable.” An example in its report from the Optimist Club in Gilbert, AZ:
They use words such as “terrified,” “disgusted” and “scary” to describe what one calls “this mess” we Americans find ourselves in. … One member’s son is serving his second tour in Iraq. Another speaks of a daughter who’s lost her job in the mortgage industry and a son in construction whose salary was slashed. Still another mentions a friend who can barely afford gas.
Joanne Kontak, 60, an elementary school lunch aid inducted just this day as an Optimist, sums things up like this: “There’s just entirely too much wrong right now.”
Happy birthday, America? This year, we’re not so sure.
A May Washington Post-ABC News poll found that nearly “seven in 10 Americans are worried about maintaining their standard of living,” and a separate ABC poll showed economic anxiety at its “highest level on record since 1981.”
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The pseudo-conservatives are destroying this country.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:17 pmSen. Obama is right. I'm bitter as hell.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:20 pmWe need a new day to celebrate the conviction of chimpy's regime.
Winter is going to be hell.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:24 pm... it must be Clinton's Fault™
(this post brought to you by the RNC Troll Dept., Cliché Division)
July 5th, 2008 at 10:25 pmThis could be the end of this great country. Many have said that a democracy can only survive for about 250 years. Then there is a revolution and it becomes socialist. Because all of the money rises to the top few and the middle class is destroyed. Is this the end?
July 5th, 2008 at 10:26 pmThis oughta shake the freak bushes a bit. Well atleast I hope.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:35 pmJust think how different things were 10 years ago. So much better. What a change. That it could be this bad again is really depressing. Whats more depressing is it could get worse.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:42 pmI feel bad for Barrack Obama. He is (if he wins, god willing) going to be walking into a turd pile worse than anyone imagined.
I don't know how you all feel about Alex Jones (I get the condensed version from my finance, because I find Jones a littly hyperbolic) but his intentions are good.
You should check out his new movie. Here's a trailer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Q1r7pTWB4
I hope you don't think I'm a spammer, but I think the word needs speading. Especially now.
A friend (who is in a bubble) asked me if it was okay to wish happy independence day to foreigners, and I responded that it didn't matter really anyway, since we are NOT independent anymore, and she chided me, "Any chanve you get!! You interject a political comment."
And, in that vein, I am interjecting something now. Hope you don't mind.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:45 pmWith grammatical errors as well! My bad.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:47 pmI am clinging to my gun and Bible hoping I do not have to use the gun in a revelution against the fascist regime of Bush and to the Bible to pray for the salvation of my country that the rethuglican majority tried to destroy in the past twelve years of Abramoff, DeLay, Bush, and Cheney along with the rest of the crime family. I guess I am bitter.
July 5th, 2008 at 11:01 pmthe culmination of 28 years of republican dominated greed, lies, and corruption. The buyer wasn't aware and so got rolled.
July 5th, 2008 at 11:07 pmBush called out on his 4th o' Joo-ly speech.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/25532271#25532271
You can see that look in his eyes, saying, "You guys are toast, like the rest of 'em."
And you can see his face turn red, but not from embarassement, but from anger.
I'm so pissed off.
July 5th, 2008 at 11:21 pmeconomic anxiety at its “highest level on record since 1981.”
Say, isn't that when "Whell, Nancy, I Don't Remember" Reagan came in? The attack on middle class America by Corporatists at that time was now in full swing after a resounding, but temporary smack back by the phenomena known as "The 60s".
July 5th, 2008 at 11:24 pmAnd now that I go back and click on my own fu(king link, I see that there is an Exxon ad as well as many others. I can't even post information w/o posting a gas advertisement. I am sickened.
Must be the tomato.
July 5th, 2008 at 11:25 pmIt's gonna suck being a Republican in November no matter how "exotic" Karl Rove tries to make Obama. War, death, debt, and lies are a tough platform for GOP candidates to run on (or from).
July 5th, 2008 at 11:27 pmAfter 40+ year's of fighting for stopping the war's (Nam). civil right's. womens right to choose, gay right's, wildlife, enviroment and all the libral Dem. stuff one could think of I'm not bitter, I's sick at heart....We didn't have the internet, cell phone's and dozen's of great technolegy that can turn thing's on a dime..We had to march in masses against the war..Write real letter's that took day's to reach the address and forget phone's a large part of the country was on party line's, mine was a 10 party and I heard 4 other ring's plus mine...Any one phoning long distance had to be rich and a private line..
Now we get to today where we could with the ease of a mouse and click turn everything around in minute's.....We could make the representative's listen, we could make Obama or any candidate do what is right before the next election and the majority are gripped with fear of loosing to the point we will be loosing no matter who get's into office, Mcnut's or Obama...Once the person is in office it's over..Obama is not going to help impeach, he will continue the war for another year and a half, he back's Israel in their war like way's 100% and along with a few other item's he had been painfuly silent for day's before addressing the worst of all FISA bill....What will it take to realise you may have put your rope on the wrong horse?...Where is the fight that the old dem's use to have.
What I see now is people that I thought were in my party have betrayed us and what do the majority of the dem's do, little or nothing..The very candidate that by carisma has become the savior has shown you before the convention he is not going to do what the dem's want or indeed what the constitution call's for and all any one is doing is slapping his hand and withdrawing fund's...Hell .you want action work in masses and tell him he won't get your vote if he continue's to pander to the reich winger's and centerest's...Stop acting like he is your child and since he's your's it's alright that he give's your right's and everything else away...If your as heart broken as I am pick another candidate who doe's hold the constitution and our people in trust....Refuse to hitch your wagon to a pretty horse that is showing you it's not broke to pull yet and definately has poor vision....Blessings
July 5th, 2008 at 11:39 pmAnybody wonder why there's no link to the AP article? It's because the quotes don't give a real sense of the article. Even some libs have to have a problem with TP basing the thread on this article. Then again, maybe not.
These quotes show the actual tone of the article:
At 82, Ruth Townsend has experienced her share of downturns — in her own life and that of the country. She suffered a stroke years ago that left her in a wheelchair, and lives now in an assisted-living center in Orlando, Fla. Townsend recalls World War II and having to ration almost everything: sugar, leather shoes, tires, gas.
"You made do with the little you had because you had to. You shopped in the same stores over and over because you HAD to. We had coupon books and stamps to figure out what we could have," Townsend says. Americans have gotten so used to "things," she says, "that we can't take it when we hit a bad patch."
Allison Alvin condemns an "out of style" values system, in which even kids have cell phones, credit card debt is out of control and families purchase four-bedroom homes they can't afford instead of the two-bedroom ones they could.
"I'm mad at us ... all of my fellow Americans. Maybe a little hardship would be good for us," says Alvin, who at 36 has a job as a freight exporter in Cincinnati, a husband with a factory job, two healthy children, her own home and four cars, all paid off.
At the same time, she acknowledges feeling that "things are getting worse."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080705/ap_on_re_us/america_s_bad_mood
July 5th, 2008 at 11:40 pmOkay, I need to wait for the open thread. I will not post anything else, b/c I really am super OT.
I just must say this link is insane. Apple, against 1984. I am ashamed to have a MAC. What...the...eff.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8
Again, I apologize. I'm just feeling....well...how does one who uses the computer to overcome MSM justify using a computer that uses this shite as a gimmick?
Check out internet 2 btw. We may not have this forum to rely on. And I realy will digress at this point.
Sorry....I'm acting like some of those posters whose comments I skip. Hypocrisy facing hypocrisy.
July 5th, 2008 at 11:44 pmGame of Life Says:
We need a new day to celebrate the conviction of chimpy’s regime.
Winter is going to be hell.
I am afraid you are right about that. If it's a cold winter, with the price of fuel for heating - it could be really bad. Thanks a lot chimpy - burn in hell you bastard.
July 6th, 2008 at 12:20 amThe Governor of Texas (last elected post for gwb) is laughing his ass off at us.
July 6th, 2008 at 12:43 amMakes me sick.
It's called a fist bump. And why do think the world will snap back? It's your limited thinking. This is a new day with tons more problems. Get real!
July 6th, 2008 at 12:49 amI didn't feel like celebrating anything this year - except possibly that this is the last Independence Day under the rule of King George the Toxic.
July 6th, 2008 at 12:51 amPay no attention to Tankie.
He's not too bright. Not too bright at...all. Too much kool-aid, you know?
July 6th, 2008 at 12:52 amPotters Gin Says:
Add to that the total international embaressment if the Iranian hostage situation that has encouaged the image of the US as a paper tiger in the Islamic world.
Riiight. Because your boy Bush has done wonders for the US in the Islamic world. Well, he has made bin Laden happy, that's true.
And after Carter, things were so much better in Iran under Reagan. Oh, wait. There was that whole thing with Reagan's people selling weapons to . . . uh, lessee. Oh, yes. Iran.
You must bump into a lot of walls walking around with those blinders on, silly child.
July 6th, 2008 at 1:02 amCarter's job growth rate was better than Ford's and Reagan's. Carter's budget deficit finished at about the same point he inherited, but most of his term it was better. Under Carter I could easily find a $12 per hour job ($2,000 a month) and my rent was $200 per month. At the end of Carter, the US had been going about 200 years and the total debt was $0.9 Trillion. Twelve years later (after Reagan and GHWB) it was $4.1 Trillion (4.5 times the previous 200 years). The rich were richer, the poor were poorer, and the middle went nowhere.
Carter could not get the Iranians to release the hostages, because Reagan's team had made a deal with them to keep the hostages until he was inaugurated in exchange for massive amounts of weaponry. Ollie North said it was a neat idea and Ronnie said he could not remember if he authorized it or not.
W's disapproval rating is 73%--by far the record. His consecutive time below 50% approval is also a record.
July 6th, 2008 at 1:32 amCarter's only problem was he was to good for the country we had at the time, true to this day.....Blessings
July 6th, 2008 at 2:08 amLeftside Annie Says:
Pay no attention to Tankie.
He's not too bright. Not too bright at…all. Too much kool-aid, you know?
Yeah, I noticed.
July 6th, 2008 at 2:21 amCarter was a way better president than all the repug presidents put together. And he is still, kind, compassionate and giving.
You are making yourself look like a total idiot. I guess you like it because you do it on every one of your posts.
July 6th, 2008 at 2:27 amWe can always blame Jimmy Carter!
July 6th, 2008 at 2:29 amDon't forget Clinton's blowjob!
July 6th, 2008 at 2:33 amYeah, that bj killed millions of people, put our economy in ruins and gave away our goodwill.
July 6th, 2008 at 2:55 amOne of the things that happened on Carter's watch had absolutely nothing to do with him.
July 6th, 2008 at 3:00 amAfter the end of WWII, we were the only major nation with our factories left standing. For almost a generation American industry had no functional compettition. And American companies got used to the fact that they had a huge built-in advantage on the world stage.
By the late Seventies, the rest of the world had caught up. Standards of living in Europe and Japan had equalled the U.S's. The hot consumer technology at the time, the VCR, was completely in the hands of the Japanese. Remember Fifth-Generation Computing? A prime bugaboo the Japanese were going after to leave us in the dust.
And the Arab Oil Embargo damaged our feeling of power far more than the hostage crisis: The latter was little difference from an airplane hijacking. The former was a shocked discovery that we were miserably vulnerable and that a bunch of stinking Arabs could throw us into panic. But the Japanese fear was worse.
The fear at the time had very little to do with Jimmmy Carter and everything to do with America waking up to a new reality.
Someone else mentioned the speech Bush made for the fourth of July here, and the look on his face. What I found most meaningful about that video though, was the boos and shouts from the audience at several points in that speech.
"He's a fascist! He's a fascist!"
What dismays me, is that people could sit by and watch him pull all the crap he's pulled, to trample the meaning and rights of this country and what we stand for...and things had to get this bad for people to show that much dissent.
'Cause I really think it's this *points to the above wonderful and as always truthful article from ThinkProgress*
is what's spurred people to either get out of denial or do something.
A part of me thinks I should be disgusted myself. But all I can do is shake my head. Better late than never for people to start thinking, right?
July 6th, 2008 at 3:51 amTanq:
Carter gets the blame every bit as much as Bush does.
But the real point is we recovered from Jimmy much as we will recover from Bush, doom and gloomers aside.
How much was the national debt, when Carter was in office? Reagan ran the debt up to a level higher that all previous administrations - combined. So, to liken Carter to Bush is ludicrous. There is little comparison to Reagan, much less Bush.
July 6th, 2008 at 5:16 amdrick23 Says:
Does it ever get old to hate your country so much?
You don't represent our country by any stretch of the imagination, so hating you is just fine.
July 6th, 2008 at 5:18 amAmericas must understand that its problems are caused by the criminal and arrogant rich. Republicans and Democrats alike. Controls must be placed on the criminal rich or they will destroy our society for greed and power as they have always done to countries throughout history.
Too much money creates moral degeneracy in human beings.
July 6th, 2008 at 5:40 amA May Washington Post-ABC News poll found that nearly “seven in 10 Americans are worried about maintaining their standard of living,”
Maintain their standard of living or just survive the decline? I don't know about anyone else but times right now are pretty ugly. I think the concept of maintaining (or bettering) standards of living is what has gotten us in this mess. It's this concept (maintaining) that could really get us in trouble if we decide we have to do this at everyone else's expense. Personally survival looks pretty good now.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:49 amBetter stock up on canned goods while you can.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:03 amdrick23 Says:
Does it ever get old to hate your country so much?
What you perceive as hating "your country" is actually hating what's been done to OUR country.
A gang of cheap con-men have co opted the traditional patriotic symbols for their own financial and political gain.
Phoney patriotism has been used to deceive the American people.
The economic rise of China, the fall of the dollar and the rise in the price of oil did not happen by accident.
They are the result of governmental policies. China's government supports it's domestic industries,
Europe has some economic policies that are forward looking.
ON THE OTHER HAND......
The U.S. government policies had created bubbles in the real estate and financial markets, will eventually end up squandering over a trillion dollars on Iraq, have allowed the national Treasury to be looted and stuffed full of IOU's, sunk us into deep debt and charged Iraq on the national credit card.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:16 amAfter years of increasing net worth for the very wealthy and stagnation for everyone else; the hammer is about to fall on the middle class and people are angry. Flag waving is not going to help and those SUV's people were slapping magnets on are now dinosaurs. The American people have been scammed.
______
And the beat goes on Says:
A May Washington Post-ABC News poll found that nearly “seven in 10 Americans are worried about maintaining their standard of living,”
Maintain their standard of living or just survive the decline? I don’t know about anyone else but times right now are pretty ugly. I think the concept of maintaining (or bettering) standards of living is what has gotten us in this mess. It’s this concept (maintaining) that could really get us in trouble if we decide we have to do this at everyone else’s expense. Personally survival looks pretty good now.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:49 am
______
Also from the article which TP referenced, but to which they didn't provide a link:
Katy Neild, the Arizona Optimist whose son fights on in Iraq, understands that better than most. She worries about her child, and about the many other dilemmas confronting Americans.
"Did I cringe when I filled my car last week? Yes," she says. "But 100 years from now, if I were still alive, would I really care that I paid $4 a gallon for gas? No. I care my grandbaby is safe and she's well and she has a good place to live.
"Your joy can't be about your circumstances."
As she says this, the other Optimists nod in agreement. Then their president, Susan Kruse, begins reciting one of the 10 tenets of the "Optimist Creed," and the others soon join in, their smiles returning.
"Forget the mistakes of the past," they chime in unison, "and press on to the greater achievements of the future."
In the end, that's what the Optimists do. They get their troubles off their chests, debate possible solutions — and then move on to doing what they can to make some positive changes in their communities, and in their own lives.
A birthday lesson for all Americans, perhaps.
http://news.yahoo.com/ s/ ap/ 20080705/ ap_on_re_us/ america_s_bad_mood
July 6th, 2008 at 9:34 amMainstream corporate media glosses over the big one...Bush attacked Iraq under false pretext. 'Bush attacked Iraq to steal Iraq's oil'. Will this never be reported and or deemed as offensive as Clinton's blowjob?
Bush attacked Iraq to steal Iraq's oil. Is this legal now?
July 6th, 2008 at 9:34 amA May Washington Post-ABC News poll found that nearly “seven in 10 Americans are worried about maintaining their standard of living,” and a separate ABC poll showed economic anxiety at its “highest level on record since 1981.”
it doesn't matter who's the next occupant of the Shite-House, "average 'Murkins" are gonna undergo a reduction in life-style. That's the MEANING of the "divide" between "haves" and "have-nots." Being a "have" is really only meaningful, in a zero-sum system such as capitalism, when you are INCREASING the number of "have-nots." Seven in 10 Murkins very likely WILL experience a reduction in their standards of living. That's the plan, fer chrissake. You have got to be GRATEFUL for the crumbs they toss you.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:58 amChuy, folks...fer chrissakes, get fffuuuukkkkiiiinnnn REAL!!!
______
satirev Says:
They’ve counted on american “incredulity”; now they’re counting on american “optimism” which isn’t possible with the dire situation(s) surrounding us, thanks to Bush and his cadre of criminals who have hijacked this democracy right out from under us.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:50 am
_____
Optimism is possible for the folks in the article that TP referenced if you'd like to read it. ;)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080705/ap_on_re_us/america_s_bad_mood
July 6th, 2008 at 10:05 am______
tokin librul Says:
it doesn’t matter who’s the next occupant of the Shite-House, “average ‘Murkins” are gonna undergo a reduction in life-style. That’s the MEANING of the “divide” between “haves” and “have-nots.” Being a “have” is really only meaningful, in a zero-sum system such as capitalism, when you are INCREASING the number of “have-nots.” Seven in 10 Murkins very likely WILL experience a reduction in their standards of living. That’s the plan, fer chrissake. You have got to be GRATEFUL for the crumbs they toss you.
Chuy, folks…fer chrissakes, get fffuuuukkkkiiiinnnn REAL!!!
July 6th, 2008 at 9:58 am
______
That's some serious class envy you have there. ;)
"Still, others suggest a lack of perspective and a sense of entitlement among Americans today may make these times feel worse than they are."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080705/ap_on_re_us/america_s_bad_mood
July 6th, 2008 at 10:10 amDon't bother trying to answer the troll's blather. They are incapable of seeing reason. Indeed, their only pleasure is saying the most outrageous things possible in order to see how much they can stir things up. They wouldn't believe you if you said water was wet. Ignoring them makes them sad. I hate seeing a happy troll.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:16 amThat’s some serious class envy you have there. ;)
A lot more class than you'll ever have.
Besides, we're not the one's crying about George Soros every chance we get.
You fcuking idiots.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:21 amThat’s some serious class envy you have there. ;)
Why would I be envious of the class to which I already am a card-carrying membmer both hereditarily and meritocratically? that would seem to imply that i am not of the elite class, but that would be a false presumption. I am to the manner born, bred, and educated. But I see the machinations of class from the inside, know it's truth, and speak it.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:36 amTanqueray Says:
Add to that the total international embaressment...
Pretty damned shrewed on their part.
...a bunch of crazed mooslims...
a wise man once said,
"conservatives can be trained,
but they cannot be taught."
sad.
*
good luck.
&
July 6th, 2008 at 10:50 ami hate_america Says:
Trollshit: Today's date is not July 6, 1858 -- no matter how much you'd like it to be.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:15 amWhat fraction of the 70% that can detect that something is wrong will vote for actual change?
How many of these people will vote for Mcsame thinking that he represents some type of change?
After 40 years of Republican perfidy, corruption, incompetence, obstruction, excuses and failure, how much longer can these people afford to vote the same way while expecting different results?
July 6th, 2008 at 11:31 amhate_america Says:
People like you, and sites like this are destroying this country!!
The USA is like a car. You are driving along, everything works OK. One day, a loud tapping metal sound starts coming under the hood. Republicans, Neocons, and Conservatives will keep driving, telling the passengers to not worry and the car is functioning fine. Liberals and Progressives will diagnose the problem, and pull over if they can, and stop driving as it could make the problem worse.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:47 amSeriously?...Thats your best response?
I don't understand how free speech and criticism of elected officials and their special interests are "bad" for America. Maybe you could clue me in? Because, last I recall...the founding father created the system so that there was a balance of powers in all area of government, no? I mean, democracy is always changing, it's not always the same....it's not like a dictatorship where leaders are resistant to change....but a country where change is the norm.
We can't continue to keep troops in the middle east, we keep encouraging the spawn of more terrorists. We need change. We can't continue our addiction to finite resources, it is warming our climate and hurting our economy. We need change. We can't continue the current health care system, it is too expensive and more and more people are losing access to medical insurance. We need change. We can't continue piling on more personal and public debt...American is becoming slaves to foreign countries and the banks. We need change. We can't continue ignoring ignoring the poor and middle class, their standard of living is in constant decline while the super rich in this country keep getting more and more rich everyday on the backs of everyone else. We need change. We can't ignore easy access to higher education which is a strategic tool in getting out of poverty. We need change.
I mean, anyways...you get the point! We need change! So no, we are NOT hurting America. We only want what is BEST for America. And the current policies of the current administration is NOT best for America.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:56 amsurely, you've seen this, via C&L...
so sad, it's funny... ... or somethin' like that...
Bush Tours America To Survey Damage
Caused By His Disastrous Presidency
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/bush_tours_america_to_survey?utm_source=embedded_video
July 6th, 2008 at 12:44 pmkaty Says:
Bush Tours America To Survey Damage
Caused By His Disastrous Presidency
July 6th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
______
It's scary that The Onion has become a more trustworthy news source than any of the major TV networks.
July 6th, 2008 at 1:00 pmtanq,
yawn.
you're repeating
yourself.
*
got any new
material you can
copy 'n past?
*
good luck.
&
July 6th, 2008 at 1:26 pmAfter 40 years of Republican perfidy, corruption, incompetence, obstruction, excuses and failure, how much longer can these people afford to vote the same way while expecting different results?
July 6th, 2008 at 11:31 am
I hate to keep reminding you folks of this, but you make a big mistake regarding the past 40 years as some kind of failure.
It has been a success beyond the wildest imaginings of the ones responsible.
Except that it began in 1963, not 1968.
In the interim, just about the whole Constitution has been re-interpreted to give corporations and big money the advantage of the presumption of innocence, disenfranchise REAL citizens, and impose near-totalitarian surveillance upon the populace.
As of this date, virtually nothing to which the American citizen could have appealed to support his/her resistance to corporate pre-emptiopn of the public sphere still exists in any form that would threaten the corpoRat interest.
This has been done by GOPukes and Dims, Carter and Clintoon no less than Nixon, Raygun, or the Busheviks...
July 6th, 2008 at 1:38 pmTanqueray Says:
After 4 short years of Carter what else could you expect. That’s why he was dumped from office.
But this country recovered from the 4 years of the worst president in history, it will recover again.
A few too many drinks last night, it appears. He was
July 6th, 2008 at 2:05 pmdumped from office because Reagan made a hostage deal, for weapons (which were shipped to Iran in the first year of his first term). So, the economy was worse under Reagan, the terrorist-codler. Live with it.
We're brainwashed our whole lives that we should love our country. We should be loving each other, not the system of government we're born into.
July 6th, 2008 at 2:49 pmMaybe you shouldn’t drink so much then.
It couldn’t have been Carter’s 21% approval rating and the horse bleep state of the economy though could it?
Remember if Jimmy had been re-elected those hostages would have probably rotted in Iran for another 4 years.
How cute. The troll finds a way to justify terrorist-coddlers, while complaining about the very moral Carter.
You do know the weapons transfers started just a few months after his taking office, right?
How can you credibly make the case that Carter was worse, when the national debt under Reagan was larger than all the other presidents, combined? He had to raise taxes to offset the phony-baloney trickle-down tax policies that blew a huge hole in the deficit, and the debt.
It's just silly.
July 6th, 2008 at 3:56 pmAnd, Reagan's acts spurred addition hostage taking, when the terrorists saw how cowardly and corrupt Reagan really was.
July 6th, 2008 at 3:57 pmBrain From Planet Arous Says:
The USA is like a car. You are driving along, everything works OK. One day, a loud tapping metal sound starts coming under the hood. Republicans, Neocons, and Conservatives will keep driving, telling the passengers to not worry and the car is functioning fine. Liberals and Progressives will diagnose the problem, and pull over if they can, and stop driving as it could make the problem worse.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:47 am
July 6th, 2008 at 4:12 pm______
And those libs will complain about what a worthless pile of junk the car is because it has devloped a problem.;)
Reading the article, "Military action 'would destabilise Iraq," this little gem popped up:
The Americans disarmed the 3,700 MEK militants, who had long been allied to Saddam Hussein, at Camp Ashraf in 2003, but they remain well-organised and well-financed. The extent of their support within Iran remains unknown, but they are extremely effective as an intelligence and propaganda organisation.
Though the MEK is on the State Department's list of terrorist groups, the Pentagon and other US institutions have been periodically friendly to it. The US task force charged by Mr Bush with destabilising the Iranian government is likely to co-operate with it.
And there we have the Bush administration's true response to terrorism: political venality, and cowardice. Just like his predecessor Reagan, he believes in "realpolitic" and cozying up to terrorists.
It was ever thus.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:30 pmReqgarding the above debate on Carter and the economy.
I keep a graph of the 3 major stock markets (S+P 500, Dow, NASDAQ) for the last 40 years. I correct the values for the Consumer Price Index as a means to correct for inflation.
Interesting part is that Carter doesn't look great, but the Carter years don't look bad either.
However, over the Bush years, from 2001 to the present, all 3 of the above markets have lost at least 20%.
If you want to look for yourself, go to yahoo.com to finance and you can download the historical stock market values. For the CPI, just to a yahoo search and choose the Bureau of Labor Statistics. (Of course, you can't correct for the CPI before it started in the mid-60s). I used the all metro statistics.
July 6th, 2008 at 6:16 pmTanqueray Says:
separate ABC poll showed economic anxiety at its “highest level on record since 1981.”
Do you know that Ronnie was elected in Nov 1980 and took office in Jan 1981? I don't know when in 1981 this poll was taken, but shouldn't it have been "Morning In America"?
Do you know that under Carter the US was the greatest CREDITOR country in the world and that it only took about a year and a half of Reaganomics for us to become the greatest DEBTOR country in the world?
Did you know that Reagan's first budget took us so far into debt that his second budget included the greatest tax increase in history? Did you know as governor, he enacted the greatest tax increase in California's history?
Did you know his Budget Director said noone ever thought that trickledown economics would work and that it was just a way to reward donors?
Did you know that conservative Democrats like Phil Gramm prevented Carter from getting through the legislation he really wanted?
At the end of Carter, the US had been going about 200 years and the total debt was $0.9 Trillion. Twelve years later (after Reagan and GHWB) it was $4.1 Trillion (4.5 times the previous 200 years).
July 6th, 2008 at 6:52 pmA lot of people know someone who's been hurt by policies of the Bush administration.
That's what's truly going to keep dragging Americas moral to the lows they are at now.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:24 pmupright left Says:
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And those libs will complain about what a worthless pile of junk the car is because it has devloped a problem.
No, Fix the problem.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:42 pmJimmy Carter, they have finally figured out that blaming Clinton won't work so they bring out Carter. Carter's presidency may not have been a success, but it was 10 times better than this disgraceful disaster. Not to mention that Carter is a million times a better human being.
It must be a bitter little existence to still support this bastard regime.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:48 pmTanq,
Go here for the truth:
http://www.cbo.gov/budget/data/historical.pdf
Carter inherited deficit from Ford of -4.2% of GDP
Carter improved it to -1.6% of GDP
Reagan inherited -2.6% defict from Carter and took it to -6.0%
Clinton inherited -4.7% deficit from GHWB and turned it into a SURPLUS of +2.4% of GDP.
W took the +2.4% inheritance and made it a -3.6% deficit. W always ruined his inheritances! W had a Republican White House, Senate, House, and Supreme Court---so don't try to pin it on liberals. He also allowed the 9/11 attack and lost a major metropolitan area.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:23 pmNew Zogby poll of 46,274 online : Obama 273 electoral votes; McCain 158: Undecided 105. Give McCain all the undecided's and Obama still wins.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1523
July 6th, 2008 at 11:34 pm______
Brain From Planet Arous Says:
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upright left Says:
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And those libs will complain about what a worthless pile of junk the car is because it has devloped a problem.
No, Fix the problem.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
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Yeah, they fix the problem as they complain about what a worthless pile of junk the car is because it has developed a problem. Better to acknowledge that the car doesn't cease to be valuable just because it isn't perfect and needs repairs. ;)
July 6th, 2008 at 11:56 pmupright left,
July 7th, 2008 at 12:05 amI never heard so many unwarranted complaints about Bush as I did about Carter, Clinton, their wives and their young daughters. That was pure unrestrained hated from conservatives---not patriotism.
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Keith Says:
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upright left,
I never heard so many unwarranted complaints about Bush as I did about Carter, Clinton, their wives and their young daughters. That was pure unrestrained hated from conservatives—not patriotism.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:05 am
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Who said anything about that being patriotism. My comment was in reference to the thread topic and how TP posted a few comments and gave a totally false impression of the article. The article noted that the Optimist Club members acknowledge the problems that we have, but also realize that we've had such problems in the past and come through it ok and will again. They don't just sit around trashing our country in the meantime. It's possible to appreciate our country and how good we have it even though we have some serious problems. Like the car that doesn't automatically become a piece of junk just because it needs a repair. ;)
July 7th, 2008 at 12:34 amI don't trash our country. I trash all the members of the Bush administration and many in the House, Senate, and Supreme court because they are destroying our country. There is a huge difference. As evidence I mentioned the millions of conservatives who complained about everything under the sun during the Carter and Clinton administrations. Clinton's was the greatest economic expansion in the history of our country. Bush II is taking us over a cliff.
I'm not exactly alone. Eighty per cent thinks the country is now on the wrong track. Before GWB, about 65% thought it was on the right track.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:06 am______
Keith Says:
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I don’t trash our country. I trash all the members of the Bush administration and many in the House, Senate, and Supreme court because they are destroying our country. There is a huge difference. As evidence I mentioned the millions of conservatives who complained about everything under the sun during the Carter and Clinton administrations. Clinton’s was the greatest economic expansion in the history of our country. Bush II is taking us over a cliff.
I’m not exactly alone. Eighty per cent thinks the country is now on the wrong track. Before GWB, about 65% thought it was on the right track.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:06 am
July 7th, 2008 at 1:31 am______
Absolutely, we have serious problems. But read through this thread and the one on fireworks displays and see how many libs took the opportunity on July 4th to say "We have a great country that has problems." Compare that to those who can't bring themselves to say anything good about our country and those who disdain patriotism. Barack Obama celebrated July 4th and not just because it's his daughter's birthday. It really is ok for libs to acknowledge that there is good in the U.S. Just pointing out that it's ok to express appreciation for what one has even though it isn't perfect. One just appears ungrateful otherwise. ;)
Patriotism is a leading factor in every other country hating the US. Freud said "Patriotism is the narcissism of petty differences". Did Jesus say that the USA was the greatest country in the world? I don't think so. The more patriotic the Iraqis and Afghans get, the more they will want to fire on our occupying army.
What makes the US a great country is dwindling all the time. If I was living in 1937 Germany, I wouldn't be talking about what a great country it was. I would be saying it was going to hell in a handbasket! A pollyanna optimist could list many good things about 1937 Germany---but remember, this is a progressive political thread, not a Norman Vincent Peale or Dr. Phil philosophy thread.
July 7th, 2008 at 2:11 amDo you pick one day out of the year to remember your mother, one day to remember your father, one day out of 365 to be thankful and one to give gifts? I'm really opposed to that kind of Hallmark thinking.
July 7th, 2008 at 2:14 amUL thinks the shit stain on his nose is a trophy of sorts.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:28 am______
Keith Says:
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Patriotism is a leading factor in every other country hating the US. Freud said “Patriotism is the narcissism of petty differences”. Did Jesus say that the USA was the greatest country in the world? I don’t think so. The more patriotic the Iraqis and Afghans get, the more they will want to fire on our occupying army.
What makes the US a great country is dwindling all the time. If I was living in 1937 Germany, I wouldn’t be talking about what a great country it was. I would be saying it was going to hell in a handbasket! A pollyanna optimist could list many good things about 1937 Germany—but remember, this is a progressive political thread, not a Norman Vincent Peale or Dr. Phil philosophy thread.
July 7th, 2008 at 2:11 am
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So, we shouldn't have a day on which we celebrate our freedom until our country is perfect and we can't do it then either because someone else may not like us for it? Wow, now I see why libs refuse to acknowledge any good in the U.S.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:45 am______
Keith Says:
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Do you pick one day out of the year to remember your mother, one day to remember your father, one day out of 365 to be thankful and one to give gifts? I’m really opposed to that kind of Hallmark thinking.
July 7th, 2008 at 2:14 am
July 7th, 2008 at 10:02 am______
I'm thankful every day for all that I have, including my parents. On mother's day, I express my appreciation for my mother. I don't spend the day saying, "So what if you were a good mother, sometimes you disciplined the wrong kid for doing something wrong, and sometimes we didn't have as much money to do things as the kids down the street, and sometimes you made us eat food we didn't like, and you couldn't afford to pay for our college so we had to work hard to do it ourselves, etc."
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DieNowForPeace Says:
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UL thinks the shit stain on his nose is a trophy of sorts.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:28 am
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Hey bud, how are you this fine morning? ;)
July 7th, 2008 at 10:06 amI don’t spend the day saying,
Thou doth project too much.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:18 amThe shit-stained nose does go nicely with the yellow piss-stain on the back of your head, resulting from too much boot-licking of those with much disdain for your pandering.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:19 am____
DieNowForPeace Says:
I don’t spend the day saying,
Thou doth project too much.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:18 am Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
DieNowForPeace Says:
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The shit-stained nose does go nicely with the yellow piss-stain on the back of your head, resulting from too much boot-licking of those with much disdain for your pandering.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:19 am Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
I've always admired your ability to turn a well worn phrase, and someday I'm sure you'll manage to use that first one appropriately. And your command of filth is almost without equal on this site... almost. You keep trying, though, and you'll be the best in no time. You have a great day, now, bud.;)
July 7th, 2008 at 12:10 pmUL,
July 7th, 2008 at 12:29 pmI was saying that other countries' hatred for us is part of their patriotism----not that they are hating us for our patriotism. Understand? It's what happens when everyone thinks they are the greatest. It leads to wars. 1937 Germany was very patriotic.
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Keith Says:
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UL,
I was saying that other countries’ hatred for us is part of their patriotism—-not that they are hating us for our patriotism. Understand? It’s what happens when everyone thinks they are the greatest. It leads to wars. 1937 Germany was very patriotic.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
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And you really think that's a valid argument against having a day in which we show appreciation for our freedom? I see a world of difference in taking a day to celebrate what we have and attacking another country because we think we are better than they are. The majority on this site post daily about freedoms we've supposedly lost under Bush, so I assume freedom is important to them. Yet most of them can't bring themselves to say one good thing about the freedoms they do have.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:33 pmIf you got mugged and the mugger took everything you had except the pants you were wearing---and he then said to you "be grateful I left you the pants"---would you be grateful to him or mad at him?
July 7th, 2008 at 2:26 pm______
Keith Says:
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If you got mugged and the mugger took everything you had except the pants you were wearing—and he then said to you “be grateful I left you the pants”—would you be grateful to him or mad at him?
July 7th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
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July 4th isn't a day to be grateful to the president. The U.S. is much more than the current president. Is that what libs have against the celebrations? The fact that Bush is president?
July 7th, 2008 at 2:33 pm