Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) was in Denver, CO, today for a town hall meeting. The event, at the Denver Center for the Performing Arts, was billed as “open to the public.” Yet Carol Kreck, a 61-year-old librarian carrying a “McCain=Bush” sign, was taken away by police for trespassing. A police officer told Kreck:
You have two choices. You can keep your sign here and receive a ticket for trespassing, or you can remove the sign and stay in line and attend this town hall meeting.
Watch it:
Kreck received a ticket for trespassing and her court date is July 23. McCain has apparently taken a page from the Bush playbook. In 2005, the White House had three activists expelled from a Denver public forum with President Bush because it was the administration’s policy “to exclude potentially disruptive guests from Bush’s appearances nationwide.”
Welcome to McForrestalFire-Nazi America…
July 7th, 2008 at 6:24 pmMcCain=Bush. Are you going to arrest me now?
We used to have a free country, and doesn’t ‘open to the public’ sort of mean, ya know, open to the public? I guess not the sane part of the public. Only the nutjobs who support McSame. Goebbels would be so proud of our GOP.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:26 pmI don’t have my copy of the Constitution handy. Where’s the amendment which limits free speech to agreeing with those in power?
July 7th, 2008 at 6:26 pmIt’s those librarians you really have to look out for. Send her to Gitmo, how dare she.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:28 pmHussein McCain Says:
It’s those librarians you really have to look out for. Send her to Gitmo, how dare she.
You really have to be careful with librarians. They read and stuff. Scary things for the homeschooled GOP.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:30 pmNo matter how much McCain protests that he is not like Bush, he keeps doing and saying things that are exactly what Bush has done and said.
Isn’t one of the first symptoms of the onset of Alzheimer’s is that you can’t remember things? Like what you said? Or what you are doing? Or where you are?
McCain is McSame is McBush.
Carol, I hope you fight that ticket all the way!
July 7th, 2008 at 6:32 pmWow! Good for her! … and why IS IT offensive?
McCain = Bush… Come and get me!
Idiots.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:32 pmShut up about the librarians! They’re our ace in the hole.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:32 pmWelcome to Bush’s Moronica: Land of totalitarianism. Home of the slaves.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:33 pmp.s. good for the librarian for her exercising free speech.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:34 pmIn my head I am imagining an 8 bit Nintendo Game - Librarians for Liberty. Level one - against the police at a public rally. Level two - free fellow librarians from Guantanamo. Level three - Assassinate Hitler. Level four - defeat Guandar the evil magician from outer space.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:35 pmI don’t see anything wrong with that sign, well..obviously McCain and his police friends are offended. But yeah, what about the first amendment?
July 7th, 2008 at 6:40 pmA better strategy might be to wear a t-shirt proclaiming “McCain=Bush”. When asked to cover it, have a person ready to provide a shirt that says “I’ve been censored” to put over the first. And have a series of such shirts ready to replace each “offending” one. Wear down the censors or at least get more publicity about the issue.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:40 pmThe odd thing is that Bush has done a wonderful job. Why wouldn’t McCain want to be compared to him. Has anyone asked him yet if he found that offensive?
We better put this in front of those ‘activist judges’ on the Supreme Court as soon as we can.
She also just lost her chance to work at the Bush Presidential Library.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:44 pmCrap like this makes me wish I was a lawyer with deep pockets (Oh hell just deep pockets - a lawyer can always be bought). I would take her case on for free.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:47 pmand so it continues….
July 7th, 2008 at 6:47 pmIf we can’t carry signs and are subject to being searched to prevent us from carrying anything inside any event, well then it just might be time for some good old fashion MOONINGS.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:47 pmFirst question to ask in evaluating this story:
did the organizers allow anyone with signs in the event?
In other words, if they allowed a citizen with a pro-McSame sign into the town hall meeting, but refused entry and even ticketed Ms. Kreck, then, as expressed by Tired of being lied to, McSame is just following the same playbook as BushCo. and the sentiment Ms. Kreck was expressing is all the more valid.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:48 pmIf a statement is true, how can it not be allowed to stay?
July 7th, 2008 at 6:48 pmYou can keep your sign here and receive a ticket for trespassing, or you can remove the sign and stay in line and attend this town hall meeting.
Kreck received a ticket for trespassing and her court date is July 23.
- - Well, the McBushes certainly lived up to the sign she was carrying.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:49 pmFreedom isn’t free, afterall.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:49 pmHow much is the ticket for free speech?
I never even considered I’d live long enough to see the collapse of the United States and citizen rights. I’m 47.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:50 pmScore one for the fascists. Obviously, these cops have no clue about our free speech laws in public events. I’m glad that she took the ticket; now she can sue the entire Denver police department and win BIG. Arrogant buttholes deserve to pay through the nose.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:56 pm22: Welcome to the United Fascist States!
July 7th, 2008 at 6:57 pmI would like to see Obama respond to this with something like “and you wonder why I wouldn’t agree to 10 town-hall meetings that are being run in this fashion?”, and then watch McStumlbe try to retort.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:57 pmBush and his cadre of criminals have hijacked our democracy in one fell swoop. Now let’s watch the people attempt to take it back by exercising the constitutional rights we no longer have.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:57 pm#25 I’d just like to hear Obama say something even remotely reminiscent to the fire in his belly of the primaries right now. I’m afraid that he’s either bought into the fascism or the fascists are blackmailing him like they did to their own in 2000 when Bush blackmailed McStumble with details of the USS Forestal incident. It rendered McCrazy totally mute.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:59 pmBob Says:
Freedom isn’t free, afterall.
How much is the ticket for free speech?
The cost of squelching free speech is quite steep: 235 years of Constitutional government, numerous articles in the Bill of Rights, Many papers written by our founding fathers Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Franklin, Madison, etc…An decrease in worldwide reputation for fairness and balance, more authoritarian leadership hell bent on destroying the existing protections we have enjoyed, and the world envies.
Freedom of speech is our ABSOLUTE right and it is arguably the most precious of those rights.
We have fallen still another step into the basement of history. I wonder if this story will even get on the air?
July 7th, 2008 at 6:59 pmOf course, one must consider that security guards for Rheichwing events most likely have “White Power” tattooed on one butt-cheek and “NRA Forever” on the other.
Constitutional law is probably outside their expertise.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:59 pmThe United Oligarchy of America - yep, that’s it.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:00 pmI live in Denver and went to both our Dailies online to check on this, and guess what?
NADA! Nothing.
Just he and McCindy strolling down the 16th Street Mall, shaking hands.
It’s going to be a L O N G summer!
July 7th, 2008 at 7:02 pmTHAT’S WHAT THIS ELECTION IS ALL ABOUT . . . . .
“this administrations’ policies”. . . .
JUST PERHAPS some disruptive individuals might have saved a few American lives, and Trilllllllllllions of $s., not to mention a complete collapse of America’s Image around the world.
DANCE ON AMERICA . . . the PIPER can wait.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:04 pmSeems America under republicans are not free anymore. Bush pulled the same kind of stunts and they continue to get away with it. What she had on the sign was not offensive in any way. To her, McCain is another Bush Term. I see it the same way.
Why is McCain against freedom of speech?
McCain IS another Bush term. Come arrest me McCain
Sorry, correction, McCain is another Bush term but much older so likely even more Conservative…if that is possible.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:06 pmA=B
How is this “trespassing” ?
What would be made of my Impeach Bush T-shirt?
Instant rendition?
At least the cop offered an option for her to exercise her right to free speech in another way, but as far as I can tell her rights were still infringed.
I know from experience that cops have a lot of discretionary power when it comes to misdemeanors. This cop chose to directly serve a politician, not a constitutional principle.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:07 pmupside99 Says:
I live in Denver and went to both our Dailies online to check on this, and guess what? Just he and McCindy strolling down the 16th Street Mall, shaking hands….
. . . accompanied by 100 armed US troops and three Blackhawk helicopters.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:08 pmTo librarians, a core principal is the ability to pursue information without restrictions ; in the 60’s the FBI tried to get check out records and this eventually had the effect of 48 states having laws against disclosing patron records.
In the early days of the Patriot Act, Librarians noted that it would require them to furnish records on patrons, and they couldn’t even talk with counsel about it. The librarians voiced their concerns. The Pro-Patriot act folks characterized the resistance as being Radical Militant Librarians…..
The American Library Association at one time sold buttons with the words “Radical Militant Librarians”
July 7th, 2008 at 7:08 pmHow about a T shirt with a noose and under it “The cure for BDS”
I have a horrible case but I could be cured by seeing the bastard swing. Or at least put it in remission, it’s never cured.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:09 pmWonder if that same a**hole cop will be on duty during the convention this August?
July 7th, 2008 at 7:09 pmmcsame,
mcbush,
mcrove,
mccheney.
*
he goes under
many names.
*
good luck.
@
July 7th, 2008 at 7:10 pmI know from experience that cops have a lot of discretionary power when it comes to misdemeanors. This cop chose to directly serve a politician, not a constitutional principle.
And this happens when the leader is annointed by the SCOTUS - rather than being elected. This happens when the leadership truly believes they are both above the law, and in fact are the law. Remember: “It’s not illegal if the president does it”. When that sort of ‘example’ is allowed to continue, all sorts of small people with badges will use it as a way to increase their own status and stature.
America will always be bigger, stronger, and more vital than Bush and the neocons will ever admit. They only can take advantage of a weak citizenry; such as our trolls.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:12 pm“He says you’re trespassing.”
Hey, buddy. You’re the frigging cop.
Ok, tomorrow I’m going outside, get a cop and make them arrest the first person I see walking on the sidewalk. I’ll tell the cop they are trespassing and obviously the cop will have to arrest them.
What idiocy.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:12 pmUm beijair? There’s nothing remotely conservative about McPander Bear or Bushco. They are dangerous, reckless, radicals who would exact any price to perpetuate their dreams of power. And manipulating the Constitution to their own ends is downright tyrannical.
To a once proud conservative, like myself, their usurping of the conservative name is high on their list of crimes.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:12 pmSince when was trespassing conditional on what you say?
If you say one thing, you’re trespassing. If you say another, then you’re not.
By your location you are either trespassing or not. It has nothing to do with what you are saying at the time.
Total lunacy.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:15 pmYea, this is just a ‘townhall’ thing. What’s the convention going to be like? ‘68?
July 7th, 2008 at 7:17 pmJUST WAIT UNTIL THE CONVENTIONS!!!
Denver and St. Paul will be 2 epicenters of tyranny against free speech.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:17 pmWatch.
What a great campaign ad that will make!
July 7th, 2008 at 7:19 pmMcCAIN = BUSH and Johnny proves it every chance he gets! I have major issues with war criminals and their heirs creating “policies” that exclude the potentially disruptive. Take note McCain denied this librarian her 1st amendment rights (presidential candidate/senator denied rights to a US citizen).Does John McCain need a lobbyist appointed to explain what inalienable rights are? - enough of this BS! if presidential candidates are getting away with this crap…WTF? John McCain will not protect you from the terrorists he’ll pardon them.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:21 pmMcCain = loss of any freedoms. Just think- holding a sign negative to McCain = trespassing. Do these freaks realize how they are destroying the American way of life? So from now on, anyone who dislikes McCain is trespassing & liable to be carted away by police? McCain = police state. McCain = nazi Germany. McCain had better correct this, denounce this, etc. Or– it means he condones /agrees with destroying American freedoms? Time for him to speak up or just fade away. The Repubs are really very scary- they want us all to give up any freedoms we have, so we can all bow down to McCain, the Bush clone. And frankly, these ‘police’ should be ashamed of themselves for destroying freedoms. Who told the police to do this? Worth investigating.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:23 pmAnd the vote on FISA and retroactive telcom immunity is TOMORROW!
July 7th, 2008 at 7:24 pmPeople need to call their senators.
Obama supporters need to call his people and ask that he vote NO.
Isn’t this a violation of freedom of assembly as well as freedom of speech?
July 7th, 2008 at 7:31 pmStratrat: And this happens when the leader is annointed by the SCOTUS - rather than being elected. This happens when the leadership truly believes they are both above the law, and in fact are the law
Indeed. The hard-core conservatives of the GOP fashioned not a mere “50-state strategy” but a total strategy, like “total war” only political. Secure the legislative branch and ’stack’ the supreme judiciary. Use executive privilege to appoint control of the DOJ and exercise authority over every other government department. In so doing the conservative’s view is fulflled, a manifest destiny in operation, othewrwise, they believe, it simply wouldn’t be possible, ergo they are destined to rule with impuntiy. It;s a weird “survival of the fittest” except that they forget that the forces that helped them rise to power aren;t impartial and natural, they have been carefully manufactured.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:31 pmSorry but I’m obliged to “shout” this as after 51 comments I seem to be the first to notice:
SO WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GUY TO THE RIGHT? SOME KIND OF GUMBY(?) WITH MCCAIN AND BUSH’S IMAGES?
That looks like an equation of Bush and McCain.
WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM?
July 7th, 2008 at 7:39 pmWait a minute, I don’t get it. If I am carrying a sign they don’t like I am trespassing. But if I am not carrying a sign I’m not trespassing. What am I missing here (besides the first amendment). If I were the librarian, I would be suing the people who owned the property the event was held on because they are who had to define her as trespassing.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:39 pm“And all I did was carry a sign that said McCain = Bush,” Kreck said. “And for everyone who voted for Bush, I don’t see why it’s offensive to say McCain = Bush.”
That’s a good argument.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:43 pmSorta ironic isn’t it? McCain doesn’t like being compared to Bush, so he has the woman thrown out, just like Bush would.
Bilbo, you make a good point, there. The owner of the property had to make the charge.
Freedom of speech died in January 2001.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:43 pm“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” (Amendment 1, U.S. Constitution)
July 7th, 2008 at 7:44 pmTanqueray Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 7:51 pmAnd I’ll wager you that McCain will personally call this librarian and apologize and then have a face to face meeting with her at a later date…
wait, that was Obama…
Then, I’ll wager that McCain will call this a ‘misunderstanding’ tonight, ignore it tommorrow and won’t even remember this happened a week from now…
Toilet Tanqueray, your wit is overflowing.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:51 pmSomehow the police are out of hand here.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:53 pmThis lady has had her rights violated,unless we are all under bush law. And I bet that is the case.
With everything else going down, when will America arise to defend her rights? This lady is doing her part as are many other ladies. And where are their tough male counterparts who drive those big trucks and hug their guns?
America is in trouble! It’s time to demand that bush relinquish the driver’s seat.
Toilet Tanq, racist much?
July 7th, 2008 at 7:53 pm5th Estate Says:
Sorry but I’m obliged to “shout” this as after 51 comments I seem to be the first to notice:
SO WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GUY TO THE RIGHT? SOME KIND OF GUMBY(?) WITH MCCAIN AND BUSH’S IMAGES?
That looks like an equation of Bush and McCain.
WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM?
He was also escorted off, because he was wearing a ‘peas in a pod’ suit. Get it?
McDepends is not only old but paranoid!
I hope this Youtube vid goes viral by tomorrow and ends up on Stewart, Colbert and KO!
Librarians ROCK!
July 7th, 2008 at 7:54 pmNice, Tanquy
seating assignments = ticket for trespassing
Good argument there.
Please, TP, keep us informed of the outcome of this case. I have a feeling that many citizens will want to contribute to help pay any fine Ms. Kreck is assessed.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:57 pmLibrarians For al Qaeda will now be the retarded mantra of the right wingnut brigade …..
July 7th, 2008 at 7:57 pmBy the way, Tanquy, the correct terminology is “terrorist fist jab”.
Try to keep up.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:58 pmTanqueray Says:
——————————————————————————–
What has happened to our freedoms? I’ll wager that if she had shown up at an Obama rally wearing a headscarf that she would have been seated right up on stage behind him so that she could appear in the photos.
I be down wit Barry(fist-tap)me and you bro.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Then perhaps she should have worn Depends and dyed her teeth yellow to get in to see the stupid old fossil ………..
July 7th, 2008 at 8:00 pmPlease MSNBC, especially Keith and Dan, cover this!
July 7th, 2008 at 8:02 pmLet’s be clear.
Open to the Public =
Open to prescreened, mewling sycophants who are willing to not only drink the kool aid, but worship McIIIrd at a respectful distance.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:06 pmTanqueray Says:
——————————————————————————–
belac Says:
Tanqueray Says:
And I’ll wager you that McCain will personally call this librarian and apologize and then have a face to face meeting with her at a later date…
wait, that was Obama…
Right, only after those women expressed their shock and dismay at Obamas actions to the press and to CAIR did Barry apologize. And some lefties even had the nerve to claim it was all a RW setup.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
The press wouldn’t even bother with that type of triviality if it were their ‘darling’ ; the stupid , pandering wrinkled old moron , McStupid……….
July 7th, 2008 at 8:10 pmTrespassing ticket for telling the truth !!
July 7th, 2008 at 8:10 pmMcCain is Bush, it’s a well known fact.
Cowards fear dissent.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:13 pmI’m torn on this issue.
First, this situation seems heavy handed. I don’t think the librarian was going to interrupt the proceedings and her sign should have been tolerated. She should not have to pay any fines. What she was doing was not trespassing.
But, it seems very plausible that the librarian was caught up in general policy to ensure that more vocal opponents, that often disrupt proceedings with louder verbal protest, would be prohibited.
On one hand you don’t want to violate someones right to speak freely. But, on the other hand, more and more often vocal protesters are impacting the free speech rights of presenters.
It’s a difficult (gray) rights issue.
The less disruptive protests should be permitted, but how do you know until the disruption? Until it’s too late?
In today’s less reasonable environment (on both sides), I’m afraid we will see more divisions like this.
Maybe the answer is this: Even if you don’t like what someone is saying, let them say it. Eventually the best ideas will prevail. When we start shouting each other down, it’s no longer about ideas.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:14 pmHold a sign that says…
July 7th, 2008 at 8:19 pm“Can you hear my dissent now…?
How about Now…?
Now…?
Is it not ironic that our first troll appears, where it’s moronic disruptive contributions are not welcome, to support his master’s abillity to shut him up?
Further proof that one must fail several tests of intellect to align with the Reichwingers.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:21 pmbackup,
It is not about the sign itself…it is about what’s written on the sign.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:21 pmIf the woman was carrying a sign that says” McCain is a hero’….probably she will given a nice seat and McCain’s autograph on the sign.
backup,
you should be stripped of the mass that is in your head, it obviously is not grey matter, it must be a cancerous tumor.
Then you should be summarily hung. You obviously have no idea what this country stands for.
“Its a difficult (gray) rights issue.”
ARE YOU FCKING KIDDING. You piece of vile filth.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:21 pmVerbalkint…
NOW THAT is a sign.
“Cowards FEAR dissent.”
Love it
July 7th, 2008 at 8:23 pmbackup Says:
——————————————————————————–
It’s a difficult (gray) rights issue.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Since when is Freedom of Speech regarded as a ‘difficult (gray) rights issue’ ?
It isn’t ; the horseshit GOP has you believing it is ……..
July 7th, 2008 at 8:29 pmOne, almost, begins to feel sorry for the 23%ers. Their nominee attracts protesters in a group of dozens while thousands cheer Obama.
The popping sounds you hear over the next few months is the exploding of Reichwing heads. When the fact of their imminent demise gets crammed into a head stuffed full of hate, BS, and lies? Something has gotta give.
The human skull simply wasn’t designed to handle that kind of stress. And if they are lucky enough to escape cranial explosion? Their “brains” are turned into nonreactive organic jelly.
Here’s a great example of the lame excuses coming from the “best conservative minds” when faced with the truth of Bushco’s disasters.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/ 2008/ 07/ 07/ the-mclaughlin-group-the-toxic-legacy-of-george-w-bush-dick-cheney/
July 7th, 2008 at 8:34 pmIf this is the case, she probably isn’t likely to disrupt the proceedings.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:39 pmThis “town hall meeting” must for just for the rich side of town or McCain voters.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:42 pmThe right to, peaceful, free speech is absolute, backup. That’s why the authors of the first Amendment thought it needed specific protection over and above “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”.
Without the absolute right to peaceful expression we quickly become a two bit banana republic. Or a dictatorship. And no previous or additional violation of that absolute right excuses it’s violation by the security guards in this case. Based on the available information, this is a clear violation of the First Amendment. It’s tailor made to become a common textbook example in constitutional law courses.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:45 pmConsider this:
For the past couple of months, I’ve considered myself an Obama supporter.
He gives a mean speech and tens of thousands of people come to hear him speak.
Is it my right (or anyone elses) to stand and shout during his speech. To disrupt his ability to give his message. To impede an audience of 50,000 plus from hearing him, while I practice my right to free speech?
I don’t think it is that clear cut. And I think it is a gray area.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:46 pmBTW. Removing someone, and their sign, because one thinks they may foster disruptive behavior is ridiculous and illegal. It would make as much sense as the FBI cutting off a registered Republican’s internet access because they may be disruptive of blog threads.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:49 pmThis is why I couldn’t support Hillary Clinton, her campaign did the same thing.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:50 pmmccain = bush.
mccain doesn’t
like being compared to bush,
why?
why doesn’t the republican
candidate embrace the
republican president?
oh wait, he did.
it’s love.
:)
if i wore that on a tee shirt to a mccain
rally would i get a ticket too?
*
good luck.
;)
July 7th, 2008 at 8:52 pmImagine a rich corporate type that opposes Obama. Imagine he has the absolute right of free speech that you suggest and plenty of money to waste.
He understands that Obama ability to speak is powerful and threatens the conservative candidate.
Couldn’t he just pay people to show up to rallies and shout down the message. Continually disrupt every appearance?
I’m not sure that’s what the founder’s intended.
And I don’t think the right to free speech is absolute when you consider the ‘cry fire in a crowded threater’ example.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:53 pmConsider this backup. The event had not even started and she wasn’t even in the auditorium. She was removed because she was displaying a sign BEFORE THE EVENT and she was not shouting anything at anyone. The actions of the SS, in this case, are inexcusable.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:53 pm#73 Backup
The less disruptive protests should be permitted, but how do you know until the disruption? Until it’s too late?
In today’s less reasonable environment (on both sides), I’m afraid we will see more divisions like this.
Maybe the answer is this: Even if you don’t like what someone is saying, let them say it. Eventually the best ideas will prevail. When we start shouting each other down, it’s no longer about ideas.
Protests of John McCain:
New School University students protest commencement speech by John McCain May 23, 2006 (Dozens of students and faculty)
McCain event draws record number of protesters
Jun 24, 2008 … A John McCain campaign event in Santa Barbara drew about 100 protesters
Graduates at New School Heckle Speech by McCain
May 20, 2006 The jeers, boos and insults flew, as caustic as any that angry New Yorkers have hurled inside Madison Square Garden.
These are just a few events I have listed. This article is talking about a 61 year old woman with one sign that says McCain=Bush. Now compare that to the three I have listed. You said “The less disruptive protests should be permitted” I would think this qualifies as less disruptive compared to the three current events I listed. Plus, do you really want to live in a country that limits your right to free speech? You would always have to agree with the government or get a ticket or worse yet thrown in jail for speaking you mind.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:53 pmbackup is disrupting the group with suggestions that the candidates must be protected from all protests. Lets write him a ticket. The trolls come here to distract from the business of progressives and then complain that a progressive might distract from the brilliance that is McCain and his audience won’t be able to concentrate.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:53 pmBackup,yes, it is the right and duty for those who dissent to speak up, especially when it interrupts a politician’s drivel.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:55 pmI’d bet a years’ salary that if that had been a Obama event and someone showed up with a sign saying “Obama=Surrender” no one would have touched him with a ten foot poll.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:58 pmC’mon Trolls, prove me wrong, if you can.
Bah! You’re hopeless. When you compare a organized political force with large resources to a little old lady with a sign? YOU FAIL!
And, once again, how is it possible she was disrupting an event which hadn’t begun?
July 7th, 2008 at 8:58 pmbackup Says:
I’m not sure that’s what the founder’s intended.
And I don’t think the right to free speech is absolute when you consider the ‘cry fire in a crowded threater’ example.
You could not possibly be more wrong, backup. That is exactly what the Founders intended and is the bottom line about freedom of speech. If it was a private party in someone’s house, sure, no problem. But a public event involving the most critical decision that can be made in this country every four years? This is exactly what freedom of speech is about.
P!ssing people off during a political rally is in no way the same as endangering lives in a theater by creating panic.
There is no gray area here at all. Not even close.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:00 pmso now we know.
mccain feels that
comparing him
to bush is disruptive.
*
we just don’t know why.
*
rilo kiley.
enjoy.
:)
do the math,
mccain = bush.
the newtonian logic of
the equation is irresistible.
*
good luck.
$
July 7th, 2008 at 9:02 pmWhat happened is that she was excluded from participating in respectful political discourse because someone feared she may become disruptive. That’s illegal and against a fundamental precept of our country. To condone such an abuse is against the best interests of our society and each of its members.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:04 pmYou’re speaking in hypotheticals. Any comment on McGrampa’s and the GOPig’s Nazi-like arrest of this peaceful librarian?
July 7th, 2008 at 9:13 pmEverybody should ignore the braindead troll backup. You won’t change it’s mind (like they say, you can’t fix stupid). It will simply continue posing ridiculous scenarios to try to justify it’s opinion, and will succeed in it’s goal of hijacking yet another thread from intelligent discussion. I know it’s great fun to play “whack-a-troll” but don’t try to reason with it. Mock it, but don’t directly address it. If unfed it will eventually slither back under it’s bed. Check allmost any previous thread from the last week. Same thing. Hijacked. It’s what it’s here for, people.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:25 pmMcCain, brave war hero, afraid of a small, 62 year old librarian?
July 7th, 2008 at 9:26 pmDr. Hussein Matt,
ah yes, backedup’s usual
pan drippings have attracted
your attention.
*
they’re good for lubricating
the shaft of intellectual onanism.
but at the end of the day aren’t
they also the equavilent of shouting
“fire” in a crowded marsupial pouch?
*
good luck.
*
July 7th, 2008 at 9:27 pmI think the librarian’s legitimate right to peacefully protest with a sign was violated in an attempt to head off the more vocal forms of protest that disrupt the presentations and are less legitimate and that have become more prevalent.
Again, does one person have the right to vocally disrupt Obama’s speech to 50,000? Wouldn’t that person be removed?
July 7th, 2008 at 9:27 pmIn case my comment gets booted, here is the link without the word that has me awaiting moderation.
This cop should lose his/her job immediately.
Here is the link to complain
http://www.denvergov.org/ tabid/ 37889/ Default.aspx?link=http:/ / www.denvergov.org/ apps/ policereport&title=Police%20Report
July 7th, 2008 at 9:27 pmThis is a cut and dry infringement on free speach. NO GRAY AREAS TO BE SEEN. Town Hall Meetings are an open forum for the public (not just one party). If you are selective of who attends due to apprehension of POSSIBLE dissention it IS NOT a town hall meeting.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:28 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_hall_meeting
Until it happens, you’re living in hypotheticals and in fantasyland.
Any comment on McGrampa’s and the GOPig’s Nazi-like arrest of this peaceful librarian?
July 7th, 2008 at 9:29 pmThe truly laughable part of this story is this: Does grampy McLame REALLY think he’s going to get a warmer reception appearing at town hall meetings with Barack Obama? How do they plan on arresting 10,000 Obama supporters for heckling the old prune? Furthermore, I thought the old coot was in his element at town hall meeting style gatherings…perhaps that’s only AFTER the sheeple who don’t goosestep to his every word are arrested.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:30 pmBushed,
i don’t mind backedup
saying the same thing over
and over again.
*
it’s like a bird chirp.
:)
July 7th, 2008 at 9:30 pmJoe, you’re a little heavy on the lube, there.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:32 pmbackup Says: “Again, does one person have the right to vocally disrupt Obama’s speech to 50,000? Wouldn’t that person be removed?”
BWWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. You’re comparing apples to oranges there skeeter. I would love to see ONE person disrupt an Obama speech with 50,000 people at it. Good luck with that. However, when grampy McLame speaks in front of 50 members of the local Lion’s club, who are dozing due to boredom, a senior citizen librarian can certainly raise hell.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:33 pmThis looks like a subtle, domestic GOP implementation of Bush’s pre-emptive war. You cannot arrest someone on the mere suspicion that they might do something. She should have been allowed into the meeting and if she became disruptive the police could have ejected her. McCant doesn’t want multiple repeat performances of the disruptions that he faced last week. It’s embarrassing to the old man. How do you not allow the people to present a dissenting opinion in an open forum? GOP solution: infringe on their rights, that’s how!
July 7th, 2008 at 9:34 pmStop being an idiot backup. She wasn’t disrupting anything. It’s an invalid comparison. She was simply standing in the foyer with a sign. We don’t even know if she was going to attend the event proper. This is a clear case of political censorship. It stinks and it’s indefensible. The right to remove disruptive influences does not carry over to denying access.
Plus, dealing with hecklers is as old as speech. She had every right to attend, lead a loud protest and THEN be removed. Just like your hypothetical Obama heckler. WTF is wrong with you that you can think it’s OK that YOU can be silenced?
July 7th, 2008 at 9:36 pmIf she has a legal defense fund, I will gladly contribute. Could Think Progress give us any information?
July 7th, 2008 at 9:38 pmJust out of curiosity, how in the hell can someone “trespass” at a town hall meeting? It was my understanding by definiton a town hall meeting was open to everyone.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:40 pmquestioneverything Says:
If she has a legal defense fund, I will gladly contribute. Could Think Progress give us any information?
best question,
it bears repeating.
*
tp?
*
July 7th, 2008 at 9:41 pmBozo The Neoclown Says:
Just out of curiosity, how in the hell can someone “trespass” at a town hall meeting? It was my understanding by definiton a town hall meeting was open to everyone.
in the republican world town hall meetings
are open only to everyone who
agrees.
:)
if she carried a sign that read:
mccain ? bush,
she would not have been arrested.
*
good luck.
*
July 7th, 2008 at 9:46 pmhaha, hey libs at least she didnt get tasered like the libs did during a john kerry speach! http://youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag nice comments though
July 7th, 2008 at 9:47 pmjoe cantwell Says:
“in the republican world town hall meetings
are open only to everyone who
agrees.”
As were the Nuremburg rallies in pre-war Germany and we all know how well THAT worked out for them.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:51 pms it my right (or anyone elses) to stand and shout during his speech. To disrupt his ability to give his message. To impede an audience of 50,000 plus from hearing him, while I practice my right to free speech?
I don’t think it is that clear cut. And I think it is a gray area.
I see this point made all the time and it strikes me as ridiculous….it’s ALL ABOUT THE MESSAGE…as others have pointed out, if the librarian had one a “McCain is a hero” shirt, NOTHING would have been done.
How many times has Bush been “interrupted” by cheers and chants of USA!, USA!,etc to the point he stops speaking..is this not an “interruption”?? But, if someone shouts out “Impeach!”, he would be considered “disruptive” and arrested.
These types of harassment are BLATANTLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL because the “arrest” or “ticketing” is done SOLELY on the CONTENT of the message, not the fact that a message is being proclaimed….that someone can see a gray area here only shows how much brainwashing has already been done….
July 7th, 2008 at 9:56 pmkamattox,
we can read about it here.
from the article:
Video begins
At this point Meyer’s video begins.
According to The Washington Post, Meyer’s question turned into “an increasingly agitated three-parter.”[12]
Meyer spoke for approximately 1 minute and 20 seconds, beginning by citing the book Armed Madhouse and its author Greg Palast’s description of the 2004 U.S. presidential election and reports of election irregularities.[12][13]
Meyer questioned Kerry’s concession of the 2004 U.S. presidential election, Kerry’s support or lack of support of the movement to impeach George W. Bush [12], and Kerry’s involvement in the Yale University secret society known as Skull and Bones [12]. After Meyer used the term “blowjob,” (in reference to the impeachment of Bill Clinton) and while he was asking about Kerry’s involvement in Skull and Bones, Meyer’s microphone was cut off. Later, Steven Blank, ACCENT chairman, said, “We make it clear that any profanity and vulgarity by anyone asking questions will result in a cutting off of the mic.” [14]
¶
you left out something from you comment
kamattox.
*
the facts.
+
good luck.
$
July 7th, 2008 at 10:03 pm75,000 will see Obama get his nomination in Denver. With a head’s up from the McCain people, I can reserve a St. Paul little league park near my home for McCain the week the GOP are in town. The park seats about 25 with standing room for another dozen–about the total number of Republicans in St. Paul.
July 7th, 2008 at 10:36 pmAgain, does one person have the right to vocally disrupt Obama’s speech to 50,000? Wouldn’t that person be removed?
Do you ever think before posting?
In a crowd of 50,000, one person couldn’t even be heard, much less disrupt the speech.
Geeze…
July 7th, 2008 at 10:47 pmI have not read all of the comments, but let me simply state that this is beyond shocking! Freee Speech?
July 7th, 2008 at 10:53 pmpete. I don’t think the librarian should be silenced. I agree that she should have been left with her sign.
I was only trying to make the point that I believe hecklers have become more prevalent. Prevalent to the extent that they might be limiting the speech rights of those they are trying to shout down.
Here’s a link that shows McCain gets heckled quite a bit.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/ politicalradar/ 2008/ 06/ hecklers-butt-i.html
If we believe in free speech, shouldn’t we consider the free speech of those we oppose?
On one hand, the McCain camp is limiting the free speech rights of the librarian (I suggest in a general attempt to reduce the possibility of a disruption in the event, disruptions that have become more and more common).
That’s a problem.
But, aren’t the more active hecklers limiting McCain’s right to speech? Isn’t that a problem also?
Do we stop in the middle of one of Obama’s inspirational speeches to divert our attention to someone that feels their personal agenda super cede those of the 50,000 attendees that came to consider Obama’s vision?
Those that shout down those they oppose aren’t advancing free speech. They are trying to squelch it.
But, I agree, let the librarian have her sign.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:25 pmAll that courage. Those big strong young men to throw out a 61 year old woman. Warms the heart doesn’t it?
She is an example of how far we have fallen as a so called free society. Now discussion, activism, dissention and demonstration are anti-Amerian. Questioning the decisions of our government is treason. The government can lie, torture in our name, shred the constitution, start a war, occupy a country, spy on us and take away our constitutional rights. And we should all just keep quiet and let them take away all the rights the framers gave us.
The right to assemble, the right to dissent, the right to question is ours. When you give up those rights and go quietly into fascism then we have ourselves to blame.
A man was nearly arrested, and threatened with death and told by his landlord he could not fly his flag upside down as a protest on the 4th. Well the fact is, it’s legal. So is burning the flag. It is a protest against an dictatorship. Which if you look up the meaning, you will see we have it. We have an oligarchy. Which means power of a few over the many. We have both and more.
If we really are not going to allow demonstrations, dissent or the questioning of our government about what they do in our name, then let’s admit we are no longer a democracy. Let’s admit democracy has failed here. Let us admit, at long last that we are no better than any other country. Let’s admit as George Bush has said, “the constitution is just a piece of paper.” Let’s stop being hypocrites about what we are and what we do.
Let us just bend over and well you know the rest. I say give this lady a pat on the back. She is a patriot. She’s a fighter. How many of you out there fight for anything? What would it take for most of you to get off your collective asses and fight for democracy? Apathy.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:32 pmAnd I reiterate that hecklers have always existed and our society has effective measures in place to limit any possible damage they may incite. At least the throwing of rotten vegetables has fallen out of favor.
But, that’s irrelevant to our discussion. This lady was excluded from participating in American democracy by Sen. McCain’s employees. It’s indefensible and a hypothetical “increase in disruption” doesn’t make it so. Plus I think a whole bunch of anti-Vietnam protesters would disagree with that premise and many have real live scars to show for it.
In fact. The complacency of the majority, in the face of a predatory Radical Right minority, is a big cause of our current problems. A few hundred thousand people chanting “Down with Bush! No Blood for Oil”!” on the Washington mall just might be the best thing that could possibly happen. But it can’t happen if jackbooted thugs can arrest someone for carrying a non-offensive sign. And this incident should disturb every American Patriot to the core of their being.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:41 pmCan you imagine how fast they’d have “detained” her had her sign said “McCain=Bush=Hitler” ?
July 7th, 2008 at 11:52 pmBackup:
Here’s a real example which actually happened and which does NOT support your supposition.
In the fall of 2004 Michael Moore came to Tucson. He spoke at McHale, which is a gymnasium at the Univ. of AZ, to a sellout crowd of 15,000. Among those attending were a group of Republicans, maybe 15 or 20. About midway during Moore’s speech, the Republicans started yelling insults, screaming, and making themselves generally obnoxious. After a few minutes of this, Moore asked the audience, “Should I have these guys thrown out?” I was one with the audience as we all answered with a loud unison “NO!”
Michael had a microphone, his image was up on a huge 4-sided overhead screen, and someone was typing his words as fast as possible for the hearing-impaired to read, so he was having no trouble getting his message out over these idiot hecklers, who were way up in the rafters. The rest of us attending knew that these guys were making fools of themselves. After a couple of minutes more, they piped down.
As someone else pointed out upthread, people attending speeches interrupt with applause, “USA, USA”, etc., which is certainly as disruptive as negative heckling.
I’m 62 and a retired librarian, and I’m very proud of my sister librarian, and if TP can get us info where to contribute, I’ll happily throw some bucks her way.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:58 pmbackup Says:
I was only trying to make the point that I believe hecklers have become more prevalent. Prevalent to the extent that they might be limiting the speech rights of those they are trying to shout down.
Tough. Frankly, any public speaker that can’t handle a few hecklers needs to find a new line of work.
Why is this so hard for you to grasp? Hecklers do not limit anyone else’s free speech. I’m also guessing that you have never been to a rally or political event in which hecklers appeared or you would know that they get shouted down or dealt with by the others at the event, who are invariably there because they’re fans of the speaker.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:01 amgummitch,
i agree with you.
stand up comics deal
with hecklers all the time.
the leader of the free world
should be able to deal with heckler too.
*
backedup is right for once,
if mcsame can’t handle it
then he’s unfit for the job and
unfit for command.
:)
good luck.
>
July 8th, 2008 at 12:24 amThe police proved her point; McCain=Bush. Bush gutted free speech and McCain is on the same page as Bush.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:46 amIf protesters are hecklers, then Bush and McCain are Gallagher and Carrot Top.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:13 ambackup is more concerned with manners, than the right of free speech.
This attitude has been a huge problem for the last 25 years, and it needs to go away.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:20 amListen, paying attention to the “news” will only cause you problems. Pay for the gas, ignore everything Bush is doing, vote for McCain, etc, and you will be fine. Just imagine where we could be as Americans eight years from now! Don’t get in the way. They will send Cheney out to shoot you in the face.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:57 amI agree with her sign (to an extent, I do think that McCain is “more of the same”), but she doesn’t have a right to attend the event. And she doesn’t have the right to remain on the property after she has been asked to leave by the people renting the property. “Open to the public” does not mean that you have a right to be there. It means that you don’t need a ticket to attend. She was charged with trespassing just like she would be if she had shown up on my lawn with a sign.
Her First Amendment rights have not been violated. She was issued a citation not because of her sign, but because she was trespassing and refused to leave.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:24 am.
REMEMBER
THEY(sic) HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS
… And so THEY(sic) order you to shut up.
Courts have seen cases of buttons, hats and signs before. The problem is that Fascists love to push the envelope at marginalizing and infringing… AUTHORITATIVELY.
GREAT VIDEO
GREAT SIGN!
GREAT QUESTION…
… You would think
.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:32 am134 Mark,
“OPEN TO THE PUBLIC” = PUBLIC WELCOME = ALL INVITED
Or was this an “INVITATION ONLY” = PRIVATE EVENT?
.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:34 amHave any of you noticed you are all posting comments with the same opinion to others with the same opinion? You don’t really need to preach to the choir.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:42 amAll our opinions are the same as those that share our opinion? Thanks, murder1…
July 8th, 2008 at 8:31 amYou know who else likes ‘preaching to the choir?’ Who would go so far as to have people trespassed for having a different opinion? Apparently, Bush, er John McCain… sorry, they look and sound so similar lately that I’m having trouble telling them apart…
backup and the other trolls are showing their true colors:
dumb and although seemingly impossible, even dumber.
July 8th, 2008 at 9:02 amHave any of you noticed you are all posting comments with the same opinion to others with the same opinion? You don’t really need to preach to the choir.
Coming from a meth-head at 4:42 am, you excuse us if we deem your comment “irrelevant”.
July 8th, 2008 at 9:03 amThe law does not work this way….
-assuming that ’she was going to disrupt the proceedings’.
A policeman will not give you a ticket assuming you might go over ’speed limit’.
But policeman will give you a ticket if you did exceed the speed limit.
In this case, and many argued here that she might disrupt the proceedings..’Might’ does not work here’ and it is hypothetical assume she will.
July 8th, 2008 at 9:12 amEither she did or she did not,and the fact is she did not and was simply carrying a sign.
Welcome the United Fascist States of America:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security .
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections
July 8th, 2008 at 9:21 amWe’re in deep doodoo folks.
July 8th, 2008 at 9:38 amIf any of you are interested, our local progressive talk show host here in Denver (Jay Marvin) just had a long interview with the terrorist-librarian. It was 7AM (Denver time. Here is a link to his page - and you can listen to the podcast, or download it (look for hour 2)
http://www.am760.net/pages/JayMarvin.html
July 8th, 2008 at 9:50 amSo, are you suggesting that we should agree with the arrest of this librarian for not breaking the law?
July 8th, 2008 at 10:02 amTo quote George Carlin-
July 8th, 2008 at 10:23 amYou have no rights. You have privileges that can be taken away by the powerful as soon as they feel threatened
we are all in favor of the “protect the vote” campaigns going on this season.
How about the ACLU starts a “protect the speech” campaign. We lawyers and activitst sent out to areas where they know it will be supressed. Site the rules of being on public property, etc, etc.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:27 amSo free speech is illegal in McCain’s world. Good choice for president.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
July 8th, 2008 at 11:24 amPLEASE…SOMEONE FROM THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN GET HER IN ONE OF YOUR TOWN HALL MEETINGS WITH THAT SIGN….AND ADD ANOTHER SIGN THAT READS…….REPUGS THREW ME OUT…AND DEMS ALLOWED ME TO SPEEK!!!
July 8th, 2008 at 11:35 amcorrection: the reason definition was not part of Gore’s quote from ‘Assault’.
His words end at ‘This premise is now under assault.’
My bad.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:53 pmmy comment is being moderated (lost in cyberspace) so I’ll cut and past different sections. Sorry.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:23 pmbackup is more concerned with manners, than the right of free speech.
This attitude has been a huge problem for the last 25 years, and it needs to go away.
Zooey. I’m reading Gore’s ‘Assault on Reason’.
Disclaimer: Gore opposes Bush and McCain. Me taking a quote from his book is not an attempt to imply that Gore agrees with me in any way.
I agree with a lot of what Gore says. I was initially attracted to the book and the idea that we are becoming less reasonable as a society. Here’s a paragraph from the introduction:
July 8th, 2008 at 2:23 pmGore’s quote from Assault:
July 8th, 2008 at 2:24 pmMy concern is not the librarian. My concern is the more prevalent incidence of heckling (that I believe precipitated the event). If you can explain to me how heckling provides us with a more reasoned environment to debate our issues, I’m all ears. I think the jeopardy from this form of expression, is that it will lead to more heavy handed control of more reasonable expression.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:26 pmProgressives might not object as long as the target is Bush or McCain. But, obviously hecklers can come in either partisan persuasion and the objects of heckling can be anyone.
Hecklers may be exercising free speech, but are they promoting an environment of reason or simple mob rule. A mob rule that is a competing brand of ‘raw power’ that Gore may not have been addressing, but I contend, is just as limiting in terms of reason.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:27 pmWhere does one who DOES NOT agree with the US Government go? How do we rally our fellow Americans to our cause if we are gagged and bound by the ropes of governmental power?
“I am… against all violations of the Constitution to silence by force and not by reason the complaints or criticisms, just or unjust, of our citizens against the conduct of their agents.” –Thomas Jefferson, 1799
It is not hard to imagine the dismay Jefferson would feel viewing how American government now treats its citizens. Today dissent is sequestered behind “free speech zones”, and corporations can delete any speech from the internet that they do not like (violates their “policy”). Individuals who wish to petition their leaders for redress are treated like criminals (in this case turned INTO a criminal).
I was watching this policeman with great sadness. The police state we have become has no recognition or understanding of what liberty is. It does not understand or have knowledge of our Constitution. The policeman is little better than the jack-boots of Hitler or the old Soviet Union. They are “just following orders”. In this case orders from Federal agents passed by a civilian “with authority”. How sad for our country.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:34 pmWhere is the MSM on this? They practically crucified the Obama campaign over the two Muslim women who were not allowed in the camera background. Here is a REAL free-speech issue, and the MSM is silent.
Beware- the MSM is owned and run by large companies beholden to the Republican Party. Do not expect anyone else to get a fair shake.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:46 pmWhat I am saying is that you are all voicing your outrage like anyone here will notice it, and then they themselves will become outraged; sites with dissenting opinions would be a better place to sound off. No one here cares what you say because they are all of the same opinion. I am of the same opinion as you all as well. Asking McCain to come and arrest you over and over does nothing.
July 8th, 2008 at 5:35 pmShe wouldn’t have enjoyed working at Bush’s Presidential Library–I understand that both of the books have been colored in anyway.
July 9th, 2008 at 3:01 pmThis woman has received more notoriety and visibility because of this brown shirt tactic than she would have otherwise if they had just left her alone. There will be even more on July 23rd when she goes to court.
This is a classic example of the short-sightedness of the typical republican. Act first, think later.
Republicans have become nothing more than a group of idiots who THINK they’re qualified to run a democracy, but can only have their way and acquire power when they openly break the law, subvert the US Constitution, or steal elections.
Republicans are finished in America.
July 12th, 2008 at 12:55