Feingold: FISA law a ‘black mark’ on country, ‘terrible piece of legislation.’
Feingold: FISA law a ‘black mark’ on country, ‘terrible piece of legislation.’
Yesterday, the Senate approved surveillance legislation that grants immunity to telecommunications companies for their role in the administration’s warrantless wiretapping program. Yesterday on MSNBC’s Countdown, Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) — who voted against the bill — remarked, “This is a sad moment,” calling the bill a “black mark” on “the history of our country”:
This is a terrible piece of legislation. It’s one of the greatest assaults on the Constitution I think in the history of our country. We are going to have to fix it, but it is a dark hour for the Constitution.
Watch it:
“Even more serious” than the immunity clause is that the legislation gives the administration the “ability, potentially, to suck up all bulk communications, all international calls, all e-mails, all text messages, that any American might make,” he added.
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i am not surprised… congress has a 9% approval rating…
100% JUNK!
nothing but a bunch of pu$$ies who have been bought and paid for….
July 10th, 2008 at 11:09 amlooks like im staying home this election cause votes dont mean a goddamn thing.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:10 amJust got this E-mail from the ACLU:
Congress just compromised your rights by passing the FISA Amendments Act.
But you can help the ACLU protect your privacy. Make a monthly pledge to support the ACLU’s lawsuit challenging the gutting of FISA and all of our other critical work defending the Constitution.
By taking a strong stand for freedom as a monthly supporter today, you can help the ACLU get a $100,000 matching gift.
Dear ACLU Supporter,
Today, elected officials in Washington sold out the Constitution — again.
Cowed by the Bush administration’s pre-election scare tactics, the Senate passed freedom-stealing FISA legislation undermining your Fourth Amendment rights.
This is not a “compromise,” as some in Congress would have us believe. The only thing they compromised is your freedom. Become an ACLU monthly donor, and stand up for your rights.
The FISA Amendments Act allows for mass, untargeted and warrantless surveillance of all communications coming into and out of the United States. And to top it off, it hands immunity to telecom companies for their role in domestic spying. This means your phone calls can be tapped and emails read with virtually no proof of threat, and there’s no chance to learn how the telecoms invaded your privacy.
It’s outrageous, unconstitutional and un-American. That’s why the ACLU is prepared to challenge this unconstitutional law the moment President Bush signs it.
Help the ACLU protect your privacy. Make a monthly pledge to support the ACLU’s lawsuit challenging the gutting of FISA and all of our other critical work defending the Constitution.
Now is an especially important time for you to act. Not only can you help fund essential work fighting this unconstitutional legislation but your decision to make a monthly pledge can move us a giant step closer to our target of 2,000 new monthly supporters this month. If we reach that goal by July 31st, the ACLU will earn a $100,000 Matching Gift further strengthening our efforts to stand up for freedom as no other organization in America can.
As a Guardian of Liberty, you can join tens of thousands of your fellow citizens in donating a small amount each month to help the ACLU’s critical work in defense of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Donate now to help the ACLU fight for freedom and move closer to our $100,000 Matching Gift goal.
In one fell swoop, Congress has not only legalized the Bush administration’s secret NSA spying program, it has given the government even more power to listen to our phone calls and read our emails than even the Bush administration illegally claimed for itself under its secret program. And, by granting telecoms immunity, it has greatly harmed the chances of ever learning the extent of the administration’s lawless actions.
While politicians lack resolve, the ACLU and its supporters do not. Stand with the ACLU by becoming a monthly supporter of the ACLU today.
In defense of freedom,
Anthony D. Romero
Executive Director
ACLU
P.S. Act now to help strengthen the ACLU by providing ongoing monthly support and moving us closer to that $100,000 Matching Gift.
© ACLU, 125 Broad Street, 18th Floor New York, NY 10004
Psst… DO SOMETHING!
July 10th, 2008 at 11:10 amRuss is right. God bless him. The Bush administration is doing a great job of destroying our freedom. The Congress is going a long with him. I think they lack a spine. I am disappointed in them for going along with W. Stand up to him, people! We elected you to do just that.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:11 amI keep hearing that Democrats are afraid to look weak on national security so they keep voting for these outrageous bills.
They don’t get it. It’s the constant caving in that makes them look weak. Because it is weak.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:14 amI read that the ACLU is going to file a lawsuit to stop this bill. Our last hope, since the Democrats could have filabustered, but didn’t…
July 10th, 2008 at 11:15 amI watched that peice with Fiengold yesterday and he walked a very thin line between calling it for what it was, “a vast capitulation and cave in” and supporting Obama. I wish the the follow up question was, “THEN WHY THE PHUCK DID HE AND THE DEMS VOTE FOR IT!”
July 10th, 2008 at 11:15 amCowering before the most inept, most corrupt, most criminal administration in the history of the US is the epitome of weakness.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:16 amWhy are Russ and Dennis about the only sacked up patriots out of 438 Reps? That is a TERRIBLE average.
Maybe it just reflects the percentage of true patriots left in America.
How incredibly sad ……..
July 10th, 2008 at 11:16 amIf st. john is elected, there is no chance to fix the FISA bill. If obama is elected, there may be some chance, but obama’s “run to the center” (well to the right) does not fill me with hope that he will want to fix things. By giving up the 77% in hopes of picking up a few of the 23% shows me that obama thinks that he can hold the many because they have no where else to go, but he really doesn’t care what they think.
I am sure that I will be attacked for being a troll and for not seeing the “reality” of what it takes to get elected, but why attack mccain for his flip-flops and give obama a pass? Maybe mccain will govern differently as you think that obama will in spite of the rhetoric.
I wanted Kucinich, but he was too independent to most people. I was backing obama until all of the recent problematic statements and votes.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:19 amupside:
Yeah, we crazy, fringe lunatics who actually care about the Fourth Amendment and proper governing. Regulars kooks we are!
July 10th, 2008 at 11:19 amFrosty Cupcake Says: I keep hearing that Democrats are afraid to look weak on national security so they keep voting for these outrageous bills.
Incredible what fear does to people inspite of all the evidence to the contrry.
Just ignore the overwhelming support for Obama from red states who believed he was going to filabuster the bill. He needs to fire his advisors that told him to pander.
We knew fully well in 2001 that Osama bin Laden wanted to attack us WITHOUT having violating the Fourth Amendment! Sheesh!
July 10th, 2008 at 11:19 amPassage of the Bush/Cheney FISA law is far worse than a black mark. It’s outright betrayal and ripping up the Bill of Rights.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:19 amFeingold, Waxman, Kucinich, and Wexler are IMHO the only ones who actually take their jobs and their oaths of office seriously (Byrd gets a nod too),all the time, in principle and in action.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:19 amIt’s really sad that most in Congress don’t understand the Constitution and what those amendments are there for. Even though the 4th Amendment was violated before 9/11, it’s really this administration’s incompetence surrounding the worst attack in US history that is the source of eroding the rights of the people. Since they we’re not able to do anything preventative, they are using that to basically say that the Bill of Rights is what got in the way of preventing anything. Had we had a competent administartion in place prior to attacks, the Constitution would not be in the dire straits it is today. No doubt about it.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:21 amFeingold is right — it’s a terrible piece of legislation, and as an American who cherishes the freedoms the constitution gives me, I must resign myself to living in a society that can spy on my phone calls, my e-mails, my internet usage, my library check-outs, etc. — all legally.
Anyone who believes that FISA will “only affect the terrorists” is living in a fool’s paradise.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:21 amFilibuster? Why not, Russ?
And that sorry excuse for a leader, Harry Reid, could have ensured this bill never saw the light of day. A pox on all their houses.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:22 amWhy didn’t Feingold filabuster?
July 10th, 2008 at 11:23 amBob:
Don’t you know that if we could just get rid of that pesky Constitution Bush could catch every terrorist in the world?
July 10th, 2008 at 11:24 amOne thing we can be sure of is if Obama had voted against this bill the administration would have staged a “terrorist attack” and blamed people weak on national security for it.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:25 amRegarding the filibuster:
Republicans had enough Democrats vote with them on cloture, thus overriding a filibuster.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:25 amThis is a terrible piece of legislation. It’s one of the greatest assaults on the Constitution I think in the history of our country. We are going to have to fix it, but it is a dark hour for the Constitution.
I believe this is an accurate statement and not hyperbole. Feingold is one of but a handful of truly patriotic and courageous Americans in government today. Unfortunately there’s not nearly enough like him.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
July 10th, 2008 at 11:25 amBut Reid, yeah he’s a complete failure as a Democratic leader, letting this bill on the floor.
Same with Pelosi in the House.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:26 amThis is only the beginning. The PNAC crowd changed the political landscape long before 9/11. This was a long time coming. How could the scope of something like the Patriot Act appear so quickly after 9/11?
It’s because it was written before 9/11. This phony war on terror is like a cancer, spreading each day.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:27 amPaul:
Yeah, makes me want to live in Wisconsin. The fact that they keep electing Feingold suggests to me that they’re a rational bunch.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:28 amFrosty Cupcake Says:
July 10th, 2008 at 11:28 amYea, but then, according to him, there would be no terrorists.
Funny how that circular logic works.
Frosty Cupcake Says: Regarding the filibuster:Republicans had enough Democrats vote with them on cloture, thus overriding a filibuster.
But still do it and get it on record. Show some spine and stand up to the bullies, maybe then the DINOs might stop freely siding with the Cons?
July 10th, 2008 at 11:28 amBearCountry Says
July 10th, 2008 at 11:19 am
I am sure that I will be attacked for being a troll and for not seeing the “reality” of what it takes to get elected, but why attack mccain for his flip-flops and give obama a pass? Maybe mccain will govern differently as you think that obama will in spite of the rhetoric.
____________________________________________________________
Nope — Obama doesn’t get a pass on this one. Even though I suspect that he probably figured that the bill would pass no matter how he voted, and also figured that a “nay” vote would just give McCain ammunition against him, I would much rather have seen him stick with his principles and vote against it anyway. He could easily have voted “nay” and told the people, “I voted against this measure because it strips away our freedom and allows criminal coverup, without providing us with any real security,” and then let the chips fall where they may.
I admit that as a result, my support for “Obama” has turned into support for “notMcCain” — even though in the voting booth the result is the same.
And, of course, I’d like to point out that when our own people screw up, we point it out and hold their feet to the fire. Unlike the wingnuts, who defend their people no matter how criminal or outrageous they are.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:29 amHow can there be a “war on terror” -when- war itself is terror?
July 10th, 2008 at 11:32 amunbelievable:
I’m unsure as the the procedure – can you prevent a filibuster through cloture? Can you just launch right into a a filibuster and thus force cloture?
July 10th, 2008 at 11:32 amquo
jabber?
:)
good luck.
*
July 10th, 2008 at 11:32 ammisshusseinmolly Says: I admit that as a result, my support for “Obama” has turned into support for “notMcCain” — even though in the voting booth the result is the same.
Me too. I’ve been a little depressed about that for a couple of weeks now.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:33 amFrosty Cupcake says:
I keep hearing that Democrats are afraid to look weak on national security so they keep voting for these outrageous bills.
unbelievable says:
Just ignore the overwhelming support for Obama from red states who believed he was going to filibuster the bill. He needs to fire his advisers that told him to pander.
Here’s what I don’t get:
The big issue is the economy–which means wages, jobs, credit, mortgages, cost of gas, cost of food, cost of energy, cost of health insurance.
The problems could be ameliorated by getting the hell out of Iraq.
“National security” doesn’t register anymore, even with the GOP fear-mongering.
Why can’t the Dems say to the paranoid voters:
Well the Republicans tell us we haven’t been attacked since 9-11 so their security policies have been working just fine–but they want to waste time and money on more security bills instead of taking care of the economy which is your most urgent concern.”
Done!
July 10th, 2008 at 11:33 amRHF’s on the loose, people. Prepare to flag it before it ruins this thread, too.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:36 amUnbelievable and misshusseinmolly:
I’m in the “notMcCain” camp, too, now.
Which begs the question: Vote for Obama in November, yes. Send any more money to his campaign now? Not so sure.
(Hubby and I are already in to his campaign to the tune of just over $800. A bit of a sacrifice, as I’ve gone back to college full time and hubby is a freelance artist.)
July 10th, 2008 at 11:36 amThe biggest black mark in the history of the US is the Bush Adminstration.
This crowd with all the Federal Crimes they have committed (and continue to commit) should have gotten the boot long ago.
But the sheeple are sleeping.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:37 amBut the Media are Corporate bought and sold cowards.
Frosty Cupcake Says: I’m unsure as the the procedure – can you prevent a filibuster through cloture? Can you just launch right into a a filibuster and thus force cloture?
There was a TP article about how one Republican was holding up over 100 bills – by himself. Some unstated rule they have in Congress that lets that happen. So, why not here? Force another renegotiation.
I think you have to start the filibuster in order to bring about the cloture vote on it. But who knows what rules they use anymore. “Anything they want” seems to be fair game these days.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:38 amMy new write-in candidate is George Carlin; screw the rest of these losers:
July 10th, 2008 at 11:38 amhttp://www.bloggerradio.com/2008/01/george-carlin-n.html
I no longer support Obama. I sent a small donation (my 1st) to Cynthia McKinney.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:39 am“one Republican was holding up over 100 bills”
Crap, that’s right! I forgot about that . . .
July 10th, 2008 at 11:40 amI have a question that perhaps someone here can answer.
Why is Obama’s version of this FISA bill so different from Feingolds? Obama said in his e-mail to his supporters that this FISA bill brings surveillance back under the FISA court. But Feingold and people like Glenn Greenwald say that this new FISA bill gives Bush an unlimited ability to spy without a warrant. Those two explanations don’t jive. So, which is correct.
Also, since a Federal Court judge recently said that Bush does not have the ability to spy on us without a warrant, doesn’t that trump this new bill?
July 10th, 2008 at 11:41 amFan of Man Says:
looks like im staying home this election cause votes dont mean a goddamn thing.
Of course they do. It’s because of people like you that we got the Bush Crime Family.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:42 am5th Estate Says: Why can’t the Dems say to the paranoid voters: Well the Republicans tell us we haven’t been attacked since 9-11 so their security policies have been working just fine–but they want to waste time and money on more security bills instead of taking care of the economy which is your most urgent concern.”
Having worked in public education, I think it’s because we teach students, during their 13 years of captivity in a system that is little more than baby sitting, not to think for themselves. I witnessed it first hand myself – we punish critical thinking skills, independence, valid criticism of ‘authority figures’, and free thought. As a result, we’ve become a society filled with people who cannot process thoughts, and simply look for someone to tell them what to think. In general, we cannot connect the dots, because common sense isn’t.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:42 amRHF = BARTLEBEE. Keep that in mind before engaging.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:43 amKay Says:
I no longer support Obama. I sent a small donation (my 1st) to Cynthia McKinney.
So does that mean that we can all thank you on November 3rd when the Republicans hold control over this country?
THIS COUNTRY CANNOT SURVIVE ANOTHER 4 YEARS OF REPUBLICAN RULE.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:43 amWell, ONE of my Senators voted against it. (Dick Durbin)
The Republicans? Lockstep all the way.
There’sa big difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican–just a little bit lower on the scale than we hoped.
I would like to see Barack Obama elected President, because we will not survive John McCain in the office.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:44 amBut I would also like to see him booed at the convention.
I would lso like to see him confronted with this vote time and again at stump speeches and damn well at town meetings.
I want to see him have severe shortfalls in his fund raising.
I don’t want to see him take away both our right to privacy and our political voice.
Frosty Cupcake Says: I’m in the “notMcCain” camp, too, now. Which begs the question: Vote for Obama in November, yes. Send any more money to his campaign now? Not so sure.
Perhaps he should have taken public financing?
July 10th, 2008 at 11:45 amDitto on the “not McCain” vote. My biggest issue with HRC was her constant triangulation to get on all sides of the issue. Now Obama is doing the same thing. I don’t understand this tactic, especially this year from the Democratic side with the voters actually showing some faint signs of paying attention. Acting like every other politician just dampens support and lowers voter turnout. That always helps the Republicans even when they run a barely animated corpse for president.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:46 amBearCountry Says:
If st. john is elected, there is no chance to fix the FISA bill. If obama is elected, there may be some chance, but obama’s “run to the center” (well to the right) does not fill me with hope that he will want to fix things.
You know, I have just about had it with people saying that Obama is taking a turn to the right, especially when it comes from Progressives. Other than his betrayal on FISA, Obama has been consistent in all his other views. Just because you didn’t know that Obama has a certain stand on a subject doesn’t mean that he has changed his mind.
Obama was always a “middle of the road” candidate. I knew it when I voted for him.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:48 amBob Geldof writing on the UK’s passage of a 42 day no charges imprisonment law helps clarify what’s at stake on both sides of the Atlantic and how the security states we and the British are constructing are doing more damage than good. The security states are compromising our ideals.
Exactly what are we “winning” if we give up the freedoms, liberties, and rights that our founders pledged their Lives, their Fortunes and their sacred Honor? The men and women who vote to strip us of our inalienable rights are cowards.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:48 am“Perhaps he should have taken public financing?”
*sigh*
:)
I want a Democratic win in November. But sending money after a vote like that is painful. The curse of having a conscience! ;)
July 10th, 2008 at 11:51 amBilbo Hussein Baggins Says: Other than his betrayal on FISA, Obama has been consistent in all his other views.
He recently spoke out saying that he is going to expand Bush’s faith-based iniatives. Really doesn’t settle well with his representing ‘all’ the people approach. We ‘non-religious’ fols are actually a growing group, and represent a bigger percent of the population than is advertized.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:54 amunbelievable Says:
Frosty Cupcake Says: I’m in the “notMcCain” camp, too, now. Which begs the question: Vote for Obama in November, yes. Send any more money to his campaign now? Not so sure.
Perhaps he should have taken public financing?\
I’m thinking that his decision to not take public financing may come back to bite him in the butt. If a large portion of the 1.5 million net roots supporters withdraw their financial support because of his vote on FISA, Obama is going to be forced to go to the people he said he would never take money from. That could be a real problem for his candidacy.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:55 amFrosty Cupcake Says: The curse of having a conscience! ;)
I’d rather most of us have that curse than the alternative. :)
July 10th, 2008 at 11:58 amunbelievable Says:
Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says: Other than his betrayal on FISA, Obama has been consistent in all his other views.
He recently spoke out saying that he is going to expand Bush’s faith-based iniatives.
You may not like it but this IS NOT a change in position for Obama. He has always supported having churches involved in providing services for the community. He worked closely with church groups while he was a community organizer in Chicago.
I agree with you that we need to get religion completely out of our government, but this is not a change in position by Obama.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:03 pmBilbo
No argument that Obama is superior to McCain by every measure despite this vote but your “other than his betrayal on FISA” caveat is truly an “aside from that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play” moment. Our duly elected representatives have now overwhelmingly approved a statute purporting to allow the federal government to listen in on the conversations of any and all citizens for a full week without securing a warrant first. All that is needed is authorization of the Attorney General. Worse than that, they have effectively killed the last best means of determining the scope of the illegal program used by the Bush administration by immunizing the telecoms. In so doing, Congress has eliminated any incentive for this or any other administration to feel bound by the concessions cowards like Rockefeller claim to have extracted.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:03 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says: If a large portion of the 1.5 million net roots supporters withdraw their financial support because of his vote on FISA, Obama is going to be forced to go to the people he said he would never take money from. That could be a real problem for his candidacy.
I think you’re right, and it worries me. How do those of us with a conscience choose between contributing or not contributing, if it means he has to turn to Corporate money if we don’t?
July 10th, 2008 at 12:04 pmI didn’t like it, but I know why Obama had to vote the way he did. Just sad that it has come to that because of the Attack Corporate Media.
I want to thank Washington State Senators for voting against this.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:05 pmOT sorry.Kucinich to be on the house floor today with impeach bush on war….C=Span should cover it between 3;30 and 4;00 EDT…Not that it will make any diffrence but think it is worth the watch….To bad Kucinich and Feingold are not running now…Hell, to bad the public is so brain dead they won’t rally and put them in office with massive vote’s…Oh well! .I’ll go and treat my horrible headache caused by spinless democrat whore’s and enabeler’s now..Blessings
July 10th, 2008 at 12:06 pmpbg Says:
I want to see him have severe shortfalls in his fund raising.
I don’t want to see him take away both our right to privacy and our political voice.
I so agree with you. What really infuriated me about Obama was when he sent his supporters an e-mail about FISA and he pretty much gave his supporters the finger. He actually said in his e-mail that we have no choice but to vote for him.
I know I have no choice but to vote for him, but that doesn’t mean I like it. And it doesn’t mean I am going to take it lying down. I have already sent his campaign an e-mail telling them that the money I was giving to Obama monthly is now going to go to the ACLU.
We need to keep his feet to the fire and remind him that it is because of us that he is where he is at.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:07 pmDear Bilbo Hussein Baggins,
All of your tired, old droning on about how we all must vote for Obama or all be guilty of the country going down the swirly is pure BUNK ‘my friend‘.
Keep this quote in mind, because it is as applicable to a candidate for the office of President as it is for an already installed (Bush was never elected) President:
WE-THE-PEOPLE have a duty to call ‘em like we see ‘em, and not candy coat it for Obama. If Obama is going to suck-up to the Corporatocracy, better that we know it now than discover it after he had mislead us into giving him OUR votes or our dollars or both.
The now deceased George Carlin was 110% accurate when he told us all this, and he is now my write-in favorite come November:
http://www.bloggerradio.com/2008/01/george-carlin-n.html
And if these types of comments cause you to:
Then HEY, quit reading, coz I’m gonna keep callin’ ‘em like I see ‘em and I am glad to see others doing so as well. MAYBE, if enough of WE-THE-PEOPLE display this type of honestly, then, and only then will some candidate surface who heeds that message and emulates it!
I ALSO think that the whole Jesse Jackson thing was STAGED, too.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:10 pm#paleolib Says:
Bilbo
No argument that Obama is superior to McCain by every measure despite this vote but your “other than his betrayal on FISA” caveat is truly an “aside from that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play”
I was in no way trying to diminish the magnitude of this betrayal. I was simply making the point that FISA is the only subject that Obama has changed his mind about. I am tired of progressives perpetuating the Republican myth that Obama is taking a right turn. He was never a “lefty” candidate in the first place.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:10 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says: You may not like it but this IS NOT a change in position for Obama. He has always supported having churches involved in providing services for the community. He worked closely with church groups while he was a community organizer in Chicago. I agree with you that we need to get religion completely out of our government, but this is not a change in position by Obama.
It’s one reason why I was initially a John Edwards supporter. He had the chutzpah to attend a nationally televised “FAITH debate” and say that he believe in Evolution and not Creationism. I was concerned that Obama was too religious…
July 10th, 2008 at 12:10 pmBloggerRadio.com Says:
Dear Bilbo Hussein Baggins,
All of your tired, old droning on about how we all must vote for Obama or all be guilty of the country going down the swirly is pure BUNK ‘my friend‘.
Keep this quote in mind, because it is as applicable to a candidate for the office of President as it is for an already installed (Bush was never elected) President:
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
–Theodore ‘Teddy’ Roosevelt
WE-THE-PEOPLE have a duty to call ‘em like we see ‘em, and not candy coat it for Obama. If Obama is going to suck-up to the Corporatocracy, better that we know it now than discover it after he had mislead us into giving him OUR votes or our dollars or both.
I have no problem “calling them like we see them”, that’s what I am doing with my criticism of Obama on his FISA vote.
But I think that not voting for Obama will cause this country to, as you put it, go down the swirly. Do you really think that this country can survive another four years of Republican rule?
July 10th, 2008 at 12:12 pm“I have already sent his campaign an e-mail telling them that the money I was giving to Obama monthly is now going to go to the ACLU.”
I think that sounds like a good idea.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:14 pmBilbo:
I also agree on your assessment of Obama. I’ve always known I am waaay to the left of him.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:15 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says: I know I have no choice but to vote for him, but that doesn’t mean I like it. And it doesn’t mean I am going to take it lying down. I have already sent his campaign an e-mail telling them that the money I was giving to Obama monthly is now going to go to the ACLU.
That works! Great idea :)
July 10th, 2008 at 12:17 pm______
Shayne Says:
One thing we can be sure of is if Obama had voted against this bill the administration would have staged a “terrorist attack” and blamed people weak on national security for it.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:25 am
______
That’s amazing. Where did you find proof of this?
July 10th, 2008 at 12:18 pm______
Kay Says:
How can there be a “war on terror” -when- war itself is terror?
July 10th, 2008 at 11:32 am
July 10th, 2008 at 12:21 pm______
Because there are other forms of terror.
i wish ed schultz had transcripts of his show – hell, i just need the first 2 minutes of today’s…
’cause what he just said you all need to hear… all the whiners and complainers are gonna lose this thing for obama, for the democrats…
i haven’t read the comments after 15ish… but i can imagine after getting through the FAST thread…
i’ve realized that TP is for whiners’… gives me a headache…
i can always count on a lethal dose of pissin’n'moanin’ here…
you’re gonna help hand it to mcBUSH… just watch…
and, knowing TP’s ties to the clinton dream, i’m guessing this thread was just the showcase hillary needs to further her plans…
have at it…
July 10th, 2008 at 12:21 pm______
unbelievable Says:
——————————————————————————–
misshusseinmolly Says: I admit that as a result, my support for “Obama” has turned into support for “notMcCain” — even though in the voting booth the result is the same.
Me too. I’ve been a little depressed about that for a couple of weeks now.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:33 am
July 10th, 2008 at 12:25 pm______
Now you both know how most of the people who voted for Bush feel.
Now you both know how most of the people who voted for Bush feel.
Wrong. I’m not stupid enough to have voted for a complete moron like you and your ilk.
We’ll never know how it feels to be sub-human.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:28 pmSince when did you right wing nuts start caring about proof, or facts or truth.
You guys made up the game, I’m just playing along. Let’s see, which side pulls out the “fear” and “terror” card every day? That would be you guys wouldn’t it. You don’t think your people are just waiting for an excuse to pounce on Obama and blame him for all the mistakes Bushco has made? Puhlease!
Anyway, HISTORY, proves that the right will do anything, even attack the citizens of this country to remain in power. What do you think this bill is about in the first place.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:51 pmpbg Says
July 10th, 2008 at 11:44 am
I would like to see Barack Obama elected President, because we will not survive John McCain in the office.
But I would also like to see him booed at the convention.
I would lso like to see him confronted with this vote time and again at stump speeches and damn well at town meetings.
I want to see him have severe shortfalls in his fund raising.
I don’t want to see him take away both our right to privacy and our political voice.
_____________________________________________________________
I agree with everything on your list except for “I want to see him have severe shortfalls in his fund raising.” While I definitely want Obama to feel some pain as a result of his vote, I figure that if Obama loses the contributions from the citizens that have brought him this far, he’s just going to turn to corporations and special interests for funding, and then be beholden to them once he gets elected. Which will be no good for anyone but the fat cats. And then “Change” will REALLY have turned into “Same Old, Same Old.”
July 10th, 2008 at 12:51 pm______
DieNowForPeace Says:
We’ll never know how it feels to be sub-human.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
______
Don’t be such a defeatist, bud. I’m confident you can rise at least that high, probably higher! ;)
July 10th, 2008 at 12:55 pmupright left Says
July 10th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Now you both know how most of the people who voted for Bush feel.
___________________________________________________________
Well, not quite. The only way that would be a fair comparison would be if I thought “wow — if only I had known this, I would have voted for somebody else!” And that’s not the case here.
Knowing what I know now, I still would have voted for Obama in the primary over Hillary. Even though Hillary voted “nay” on the measure (as well as voting the right way on the amendments), I feel fairly certain that if she was the presumptive nominee and Obama wasn’t, their votes would be reversed. And Hillary would have voted yea for the same reason Obama did.
Furthermore, I still plan to vote for Obama in November. McCain has not convinced me that he would be a better president — in fact, with each passing day, he illustrates how incompetent he is for the job.
While I’m disappointed in Obama, and I may see him more as the lesser of two evils than a shining knight, it’s not nearly on the same par as what I would feel if I had voted for Bush.
I DO, however, remember my parents’ regret over voting for Lyndon Johnson in 1964. That’s probably a closer parallel.
July 10th, 2008 at 1:00 pm——————————————————————————–
katy Says:
——————————————————————————–
’cause what he just said you all need to hear… all the whiners and complainers are gonna lose this thing for obama, for the democrats…
i haven’t read the comments after 15ish… but i can imagine after getting through the FAST thread…
i’ve realized that TP is for whiners’… gives me a headache…
i can always count on a lethal dose of pissin’n’moanin’ here…
you’re gonna help hand it to mcBUSH… just watch…and, knowing TP’s ties to the clinton dream, i’m guessing this thread was just the showcase hillary needs to further her plans…
have at it…
Katy,
I hate to break it to you but we are not going to be responsible for Obama’s or the “D’s” downfall. They brought this on themselves.
This vote is with out a doubt one of the worst things that they could’ve done, right up there with authorizing this war.
And it was done solely for political expedience. The Dems and Obama not only deserve to be beat with with this but they need to be beat with it often and loudly. They are afraid to appear weak so they keep acting weak.
If we don’t help them find their spine, who will?
And if we don’t use every forum available to us, how will they ever get the msg?
I called every one of them repeatedly and yesterday faxed the Full-Page Ad from ActBLue to the Dems (yes All of them) and I’m pretty certain that I wasn’t the only one. But still they caved. So obviously they ain’t listening.
How else do you suggest we get their attention? Before it’s too late?
July 10th, 2008 at 1:07 pmaddendum: that was mostly directed at the whiny posters who declare their support for ANY candidate other than the ONLY candidate who can FIX THIS MESS and there are only 2 candidates, as usual, and only one of those will HAVE to try and STEAL this election, and the other candidate needs your help…
and you’re not helping.
Obama 08
July 10th, 2008 at 1:09 pm“crossed in the mail”, radical…
i don’t disagree with what you say…
and, i stand by my comments…
July 10th, 2008 at 1:12 pm______
Shayne Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left Says:
That’s amazing. Where did you find proof of this?
Since when did you right wing nuts start caring about proof, or facts or truth.
You guys made up the game, I’m just playing along. Let’s see, which side pulls out the “fear” and “terror” card every day? That would be you guys wouldn’t it. You don’t think your people are just waiting for an excuse to pounce on Obama and blame him for all the mistakes Bushco has made? Puhlease!
Anyway, HISTORY, proves that the right will do anything, even attack the citizens of this country to remain in power. What do you think this bill is about in the first place.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
______
Just playing along? More like using whatever tactic suits you.
My people? I’m voting for Obama. Is that the people you mean? I don’t kow about you, but I hold people responsible for their own mistakes not the mistakes of others. I also refuse to make excuses for politicians and I realize that they will all do the politically expedient thing a lot of the time. I don’t then sit around and pretend that I am astounded that it happens. You people are not children. You are experienced enough to know what to expect from politicians. You don’t like his vote. Fine. If Obama wants to continue to be successful, it won’t be the last. Register your discontent and stop pretending like this is some watershed event in history. If libs keep harping on Obama and encouraging people to defect, we’ll get McCain.
July 10th, 2008 at 1:12 pmkaty
I don’t mean this to sound as nasty as it may come out but your comment #73 sounds a lot like a desire for the progressive community to fall into line like the Republicans traditionally do. Oh yes, you also issue a blanket comment on this thread while admitting that you didn’t need to read past the first 15(ish). I always gravitate towards people who can and do think for themselves. While all points on the spectrum have their share of lockstep thinkers, I am always encouraged that the lefties — and thus the Democrats — exhibit a greater array of opinions as well as a desire to express them. That is how ideas get debated and hopefully perfected. What is often seen as the “discipline” of the right, as exhibited by lockstep votes in congress and early selection of preordained presidential candidates is not a desireable trait unless you like having a prepackaged sack of manure like G.W. Bush rammed down your throat. This board is an example of democracy in action. Sorry you don’t like it but unless or until I am banned by the moderator I fully intend to raise my voice when I disapprove of the conduct of my government or of the candidate for whom I voted in the primary.
July 10th, 2008 at 1:15 pmkaty Says:
——————————————————————————–
“crossed in the mail”, radical…
i don’t disagree with what you say…
and, i stand by my comments…
Ok, but how ’bout answering my questions?
What other recourse do we have than to use every venue at our disposal to help them find their spine and do the right thing?
July 10th, 2008 at 1:16 pmEh. Well, everybody knows that the Bill of Rights is just another “g*ddamned piece of paper”…
July 10th, 2008 at 1:37 pmpaleolib – read my #81…
…
radical – you’re doing fine, let them all know how you feel, however you can…
just don’t start with the “i’m gonna vote for thin air if i don’t get my way!” and hand it over to the right…
’cause that’s what will happen…
and this is our last chance… get it?
July 10th, 2008 at 1:37 pm#89–RadicalRightisRadicallyWrong
Did you know about the money bomb on August 8th? This is a coalition of people like Glenn Greenwald, Christy Hardin Smith at Firedoglake, Ron Paul supporters, and those who are concerned about the direction Democrats have taken us.
http://www.accountabilitynowpac.com/
July 10th, 2008 at 1:43 pmkaty
Agreed on your #81. If the lesson needed to be given, the last eight years should demonstrate that those who claimed in 2000 that there was no meaningful difference between Bush and Gore were shall we say mistaken.
July 10th, 2008 at 1:59 pmYou get the president you deserve……
The last two threads on this topic make it clear that America deserves mccain. You guys will hand it to him.
You can rant and carry on all you want but it doesn’t change the fact. If Obama loses….mccain wins. No 3rd party will be in the competition this year.
Is that the kind of change you want, really?
Life is not fair and it is not black and white. Instead of beating your head on the wall and jumping off of a cliff and dragging us along with you why don’t you help us get rid of the republicans and then we can concentrate on specifics?
The all or nothing attitude is unacceptable. It shows a lack of understanding the process. JFK had doubters too….because he was catholic for one thing but we still voted for him because the alternative was Nixon…..think.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:13 pmBarak Obama has proven that he is no Al Gore.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:15 pmAnd he’ll prove it again in Novemeber when he wins by such a large margin that all this hard work you’ve done boosting Nader for the RNC will be for naught, Jabber.
You’re loving this aren’t you jj? Everyone read jj’s posts to see what you are doing please.
remember, lots of people lurk here and never post. They read your comments though.
jj, Obama is much more like Al Gore than he is mccrazy. MUCH.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:23 pmlefttown Says:
——————————————————————————–
#89–RadicalRightisRadicallyWrong
Did you know about the money bomb on August 8th? This is a coalition of people like Glenn Greenwald
Already signed up for it… I’m just not convinced that any of them (politicians) are listening no matter what we do. As loud as we were all screaming over this issue and calling and writing and… they still went against the wrong way. They had a choice and knew we were fully behind them to make the Correct choice and they still went wrong. Now our only option is to vote out the weak and support the strong.
I said before that Obama needed to hear us and feel the tightening of the purse strings and I know that over 20,000 people went to his website and signed on to help him do the right thing but I don’t know if the funds stopped flowing enough to let him know we were serious.
July 10th, 2008 at 2:55 pmkaty Says:
——————————————————————————–
paleolib – read my #81…
…
radical – you’re doing fine, let them all know how you feel, however you can…
just don’t start with the “i’m gonna vote for thin air if i don’t get my way!” and hand it over to the right…
Katy,
It’s not, “my way” it’s our way, the American way! And what they voted for yesterday was as close to the most UN-AMERICAN thing they ever could’ve done.
So I’ll ask you again, How do you propose that we get them to do the Right thing. From your responses so far, I think I’m hearing, let’s just keep supporting them even though what they’ve done is repugnant to all that we hold dear.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:03 pmkaty Says:
’cause what he just said you all need to hear… all the whiners and complainers are gonna lose this thing for obama, for the democrats…
i haven’t read the comments after 15ish… but i can imagine after getting through the FAST thread…
you’re gonna help hand it to mcBUSH… just watch…
and, knowing TP’s ties to the clinton dream, i’m guessing this thread was just the showcase hillary needs to further her plans…
Hi Katy: I think you are being too harsh on the people here. This thing is still new and still raw. People are furious and need a venue to vent that fury. I see this whole situation with FISA and Obama the same way I say Hillary supporters saying they wouldn’t vote for Obama. Well, most of the Hillary supporters had come around and I think the same thing will happen with all the people here who are saying they will vote for a third party candidate or not vote. I think once the pain dulls and Obama does some good things, people will be back. But, Obama does need to start doing something to bring his base back to the fold. I think the first thing he should do is to announce that he will be investigating every crime committed by the Bush Crime Family once he takes office, and say that he will immediately write a new FISA bill. I think that would go a long way towards healing the rift that he has created with his base. If he doesn’t do something like that, then I fear that perhaps he actually wants the power that he essentially gave himself by voting for the FISA bill.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:50 pmTheRadicalRightisRadicallyWrong Says:
So I’ll ask you again, How do you propose that we get them to do the Right thing. From your responses so far, I think I’m hearing, let’s just keep supporting them even though what they’ve done is repugnant to all that we hold dear.
How we get them to do the right thing is to not stop yelling and kicking. We need to let our representatives know what we think about what they did (including Obama) and keep it up to let them know that this is not just a passing phase.
We need to get people at town halls to ask Obama what he plans to do to fix FISA when he takes office. We need to get people at town hall meetings to ask Obama if he is going to investigate the crimes committed by the Bush Administration. We need to keep Obama’s feet to the fire and not let up. But, we still need to vote for him or all will be lost.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:53 pmFrom your responses so far, I think I’m hearing, let’s just keep supporting them even though what they’ve done is repugnant to all that we hold dear.
Or, vote for a third-party candidate, and hand the presidency to McCain.
Or, don’t vote at all, and hand the presidency to McCain.
Or, vote for McCain.
Or, suck it up, and remember Bill Clinton’s legislative policy. While he did things progressives hated, he also drove the Right nuts, and ushered in a period of economic progress, unequaled in modern times. Clinton’s triangulation strategy always ensured that neither progressives nor conservatives ever were fully satisfied with the package, but he always brought home the goods. Obama has learned from the master, and knows if he isn’t pissing everyone off, equally, he is successfully doing his job. Middle-of-the-roadism sucks, but we’ve also seen what its like, being out of power, and having to hitch a ride on republican hayrides.
July 10th, 2008 at 4:02 pmThat’s “…isn’t successfully doing his job.”
Crappy keyboard!
July 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pmWhere are all the REAL conservatives in all this????
Since when has the conservative movement in this country become a movement in favor of big gov’t spying on it’s citizens????
True conservatives believe in small gov’t, private property, privacy, the constitution, freedom of speech, etc. It’s like the conservative movement has compromised these fundamental beliefs out of senseless fear! They have been blinded by the propaganda from the neo-(pseudo)conservative movement!
Turn off your damn tv’s, turn off your radios and THINK for YOURSELF! Real conservatives think for THEMSELVES. Always has been this way. Don’t trade your fundamental principles for the promise of security.
July 10th, 2008 at 4:04 pmWell i have oficially left the democratic party and today re-registered as an independant. i can no longer tolerate being associated with a bunch of cowards who crumble at every republican grumble , especially after yesterdays FISA collapse.. What happened to holding the goddamned law breakers accountable? I would never ever, ever vote for McCain, but i will stay home on november 4th. With every change on every issue obama’s asked about he’s quickly losing my support. As of today he’s lost my financial support and is well on his way to losing my vote also. If i had it to do over again i would vote for Hillary in the pennsylvania primary instead of obama. he’s not the same guy i voted for in our primary. Like Hillary or not, she doesn’t cave to every rove or republican bullshit line.
July 10th, 2008 at 4:08 pmOT sorry. Kucinich on house floor now with impeachment of bush.C-Span..Blessings
July 10th, 2008 at 4:29 pmSorry if you all missed Kucinich and his impeachment reading…It was well worth the watch…Blessings
July 10th, 2008 at 5:12 pmI’m tired of playing tidleywinks with you guys. This is not the first time you have turned your back on our democrats when they needed our support….who do you trust?
You bailed on Jimmy Carter and let the republicans villify him….crickets…
You bailed on Hillary when she tried to get health care for us.
You bailed on Bill Clinton when they impeached him.
You bailed on Al Gore in 2000
Why am I not surprised that you’re bailing again.
You guys are the problem…..furthermore you offer nothing as a solution.
And you wonder why Al Gore didn’t want to trust you again….seriously.
July 10th, 2008 at 5:18 pmWell I won’t take your post personely Fred cause none of your post is about me…I never bailed once and stayed with the party line for over 45 year’s..
I will take exception to all the slamming by today’s dem’s directed to me and other’s because me and mine are not going to vote for Obama…
Let me say I am and alway’s have been for my country and the constitution and I will not cast a vote for any one who has voted to distroy it no matter their reasoning…Every one here can make the tired old vote for the lesser of two evil’s yet again and slam away..It is my opinion the constitution and country come first, not a man that want’s the same power this evil administration already has and show’s his huge flaw’s before the election….No one man is above the law and neither should he have the power to distroy the constitution and our people at will…By voting for Obama or mccane you are giving away your right’s and imposing yet another king like george..
Most here have baught into the mind set of we have no choice, over look the flaw’s, go kicking and screaming into the night, suck it up and vote for one of these two or else you are a bad guy..Well excuse the hell outta me…I will take up my arm’s to protect my little corner of this country and the constitution to my last breath…..I am not a moderate on those two item’s and will not waver..I will not and can not compromise my country or constatution and for those that think they should are no better than traitor’s as far as I am concerned…My feeling’s are what gave this country greatness in the beginning and I am ashamed the dem’s have become such whore’s they don’t remember or care..Blessings
July 10th, 2008 at 5:43 pmWitch, maybe when you get over being angry you will regret implying that we are traitors. Even Ben Franklin, et al made compromises that were painful. How do you think this will ever be reversed if republicans get elected.
Feingold said:
do you seriously think we can change it with mccain in office?
JJ, you are just a fool. You say things that you have no idea about. I protested, was beaten and arrested repeatedly during viet nam…after serving. Johnson was in office so suck on that you right wing shill.
July 10th, 2008 at 6:34 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
THIS COUNTRY CANNOT SURVIVE ANOTHER 4 YEARS OF REPUBLICAN RULE.
It cannot survive with Obama ripping up the Constitution in a “Liberal” way either. He basically said, “The Constitution is not as important as looking bad to Neocons. WTF? What else will this stealth Traitor estroy? The US cannot survive with the likes of Pelosi and Reid with their noses up AIPAC’s butt. It cannot survive with globalists of the left and the right making corporations more important than people.
Vote with your conscience, and not for the party.
July 10th, 2008 at 6:52 pmDear Fred, with respect I will not change my mind nor my opinion…To vote for a traitor or subversive that voted against our constitution and country would make me a traitor as well….That vote was the proof posative of how far and how weak our voter’s have become..This is against all reason as far as I can see and I’m very far sighted…To forgive Obama when he waited to vote in favor long after it was obvious the bill was going to pass and still cast his vote along with the rest of the traitor’s lost it for me….None of this is about me, anger or party…It is about the constitution and our country…At this point in time I dont’ give a flying fig about who is running the country as long as they go by the constitution and protect the country…I will never betray my country and the constitution, never….Blessings
July 10th, 2008 at 6:53 pmWitch1 Says:It is my opinion the constitution and country come first, not a man that want’s the same power this evil administration already has and show’s his huge flaw’s before the election….No one man is above the law and neither should he have the power to distroy the constitution and our people at will…By voting for Obama or mccane you are giving away your right’s and imposing yet another king like george..
Witch1, I agree with you 100%. These are the same people that still think Bill Clinton was a liberal and a good president, even though he signed Defense of Marriage, NAFTA, GATT, and the Digital Millennium Act, as well as bombing places on a regular basis.
There is ZERO compromise with the Bill of Rights and The Constitution. Maybe some of you “compromisers” think it is a “Goddamn piece of paper” like Bush.
Obama will fix it when he gets in? Not a chance. He is the biggest recipient of Telecom money, and these and the Likud/AIPAC crowd are his masters.
July 10th, 2008 at 6:58 pmAnyone who want’s to vote for Obama has got to be insane as well as a traitor to the constitution and our country….He was on the list of all the dem’s everyone wanted to vote out of office because they voted for the FISA mess..Why the hell would you want to put him in office after that.?..I watched every minute of that senate vote, he could of atleast made a token no vote since he waited so long to cast his vote he knew they were going to pass it….What kind of logic is it to put some one in office who has shown you just like the other’s he doesn’t give a fick about the constitution, our people and the country just as long as he get’s in office….Jeebos what will it take for people to wake up…
Your tired old BS about taking the white house back is lost in the wind like a fart, unless you choose some one else and vote in massive number’s you are getting nothing..You already lost….Blessings
July 10th, 2008 at 8:31 pmMuch as I hate to agree with ya, Witch & Man from Planet…I do.
Had the heebie-jeebies about Obama right off when the Queen of daytime talk dragged him through SC. She Who Has Never Taken A Political Stand prior to…
I had to think ..WTF? Why would she…oh wait..ok…owned by the corporate media, ‘fraid to give up her billions…this was a push job. uh huh…or maybe….hell.. maybe she *is* totally in line with corprit ‘merica now. After all, she’s got enough money to shift Wall Street her ownself.
Then when millions and millions were being hurled at Obama on a monthly basis…when let’s face it, blacks in general are not known to be THAT well heeled…and not too many Dems (the ordinary non-political people, excluding the Kennedys and the like) actually are el-richo either…so ..where all dat money comin’ from, Obie?
Hmmm..let’s see now….could it possibly be da telecoms, for one?
I’d say they rank way up dere on the pilin’ on list…and I wonder why…hm…ah…could it be there was a (pending) Congressional reckonin’ to face in the near future? …hmm…lesseee now…and hey now…dere’s a LOT of folks up for re- ‘lexshun this November comin’ up.
Do ya thinks that mighta had sumthin’ to do wid the retroactive Yay’ers lookin’ for a little tricklin their way for a Yay?
Lol. well blow us down…and shred the Constituent-ution while you is at it.
maybe we should just wad ‘at ole thing up inna ball, frow it inna corner and slap a great big ol’ hunnert dolla bill in its place.
‘Cause that do seem to be da law of choice. yassuh.
Brer Rabbit coulda see dis one comin’..
Wondah why the Dems (besides me) dint.
The weird thing was…if Bill C. was such a “going along” type guy as to corporate America, then…why wuz everbody so terrified-like that Hillary would be the Dem’s candidate that (unknown) Obie got dragged up on stage and the carnival that got him elected was ratcheted up into HIGH gear?
I mean, if Bill was a go-along to get along…then…wouldn’t Hill be too?
Why corporate America was so scairt of her?
I guess now…at least not for the next 4 years…we won’t get to find out.
But I’ll be it was because…
she wasn’t Bill.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:31 pmdidInhale Says:
I mean, if Bill was a go-along to get along…then…wouldn’t Hill be too?
Why corporate America was so scairt of her?
I guess now…at least not for the next 4 years…we won’t get to find out.
But I’ll be it was because…
she wasn’t Bill.
Corporate America likes to create the image of “competition”, in this case White Woman vs Black Man. This gives the illusion of “change”. AIPAC, Israel, Telecoms, Pharmaceuticals, and the Military will profit in a Democrat administration. The big difference will be oil, but the writing is on the wall with that. The only sector that will be using oil on a large scale in 10 to 20 years is the military. it just happens that white male corporate America can take a Black man more than a white woman. Hillary was a phony, as is Obama. Globalism and a police state with a smile instead of Bush’s smirking and Cheney’s snarling faces.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:46 pmHere’s a post from Dailykos that sums up the corporate drones that will support Obama no matter what he does. This person seems to mistakenly think this is “one issue”, FISA. It is the Constitution itself, NOT a single issue:
Jeremy Zilber on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 08:23:38 PM PDT
No one–and I mean NO ONE–has the capacity to shoot themselves in the foot the way Democrats do. “I disagree with Obama on FISA so I’m not giving money to him.” G-d damn it, grow up. Contrary to what some people think, this is NOT the most important issue in the election. The economy, the environment, the courts, the war, ALL take priority over FISA. Now can we stop complaining about this issue and work on getting a Democratic administration elected? I’m so SICK AND TIRED of Democrats turning on their own nominees because they disagree on one issue. A McCain presidency would be a national tragedy. I don’t like the FISA vote either, but can we get a f—ing grip here?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/10/122540/717/768/549423
July 11th, 2008 at 12:04 am#108 Fred,
I didn’t bail on the Dem’s…
The Democratic Party Leaders bailed on the Republic!
… And joined forces with the Loyalist Christians(R) GOP.
So Fred, what IS the solution…?
Trust the liars?
Got troops home?
Got Habeas Corpus? (did you thank the SCOTUS?)
Got Fourth Amendment Rights? (remember only ONE GOP House Rep voted against the recent FISA)
Got P.A I & II?
R E M E M B E R:
THEY(sic) HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS…
And so THEY(sic) have debated, lobbied, and legislated away those FREEDOMS>
.
July 11th, 2008 at 3:52 amMax-1 Says:
So Max, what’s your solution? Wait for the easter bunny to deliver you a perfect candidate? Who do you suggest that is better than Obama….you know, someone who might get elected?
July 11th, 2008 at 8:52 amTerrible atrocity against the American people. Don’t look to Mccain nor Obama to change anything. I’ll be writing in Ron Paul.
July 11th, 2008 at 6:59 pmThink about it this way.
The repugs want the FISA to be overturned and return to the way it should be all nice and legal. This way there will be no more illegal spying once the new prez is in the office. but if it’s in place now the new president can use the same tools to spy on repug. After all they have intel that they won’t share on the most crooked admin since hitler.
repugs lose again
July 11th, 2008 at 8:02 pm<
Yes, Hence, McCain and Obama”, two guys duking it out.
But a strong woman vs a man, now that was a whole different thing, one that bore in the belly of that beast the probability that WOMEN might gain a rightful place of equality and then a balance of control. And when women are in control, war goes out the window.
Secondly, Hillary got subjected to a humiliation of a thousand cuts during Bill’s time in office when she tried to do the right thing re: changing the absurdity of our health being controlled by the insurance business. She had insurance comps quaking in their boots and they became the power behind the bashing she got as a result of those efforts. Moreover, she did not show a willingness to compromise during her campaign. She did not guarantee them “A place at the table” as Obie did, remember?
She was candidly in favor of all Americans without health insurance being allowed to join in the elite DC health club, and ultimately to migrate into a universal health care system, such as those which work just fine for all the other industrialized countries (despite the desperate brainwashing attempts by the solid-front corporate hijackers and the republicans and/or very wealthy who choose to be stalwart, profit-hungry shareholders and ignore their own inhumanity.
She also favored drugs from Canada. period. ouch to that pharmaceuticals will profit from dems (HAD she been the nominee)
She also wanted out of Iraq adn would have gotten us out.
How many mothers can stomach the idea of sending their offspring into harm’s way? How many mothers can IGNORE the combat deaths, suicides, mental illness and heinous physical hurts sustained by these young folks (mostly) and the stop-loss revolving door they are caught in that may never ever let them return home?
Mothers are a different story entirely, no matter what people may nonchalantly toss out as to Hillary being a tool of corporate America.
In fact, she would have been a rallying point, a focus of power to be brought to bear against the hijackers. She would ultimately have brought WOMEN together to speak in a clear and meaningful voice, united, taking charge of the country that has been betrayed by the Bushites and Reagans, and, yes, even the go along Bills.
It would have been impossible for her to have been Bill.
Her power did not lie in her charm or savoir faire. her power lies in her ability to make sense.
Women would have been united. Men of reason and conscience would have joined us.
Nay, Man, she was and IS a force to be reckoned with. The women who were conned and charmed or race-baited and led astray from the real purpose of this election? God bless ‘em. They’ll be back. The next four years will find them FED UP, and feeling betrayed by their own candidate. Rest assured, Obama will get elected. That’s the plan.
But before the 4 years are over, it won’t just be Jesse Jackson who will want to cut his nuts off.
If he is allowed to live out his office and try for a second term… the women will bring that to a halt.
They will think with their minds and hearts, and they will NOT be moved aside again.
Truly it’s time. Past time.
The boys have had their turn at bat. for a LONG time.
A pretty horrendous showing.
Mayhem, murder, conspiracy; war after war after war; chaos, poverty, illness; agonizing diseases geared to be “treated” and not cured, using more and more invented and outrageously expensive drugs sold on tv, earning kickbacks for doctors, instead of eliminating the cause for the disease (no profit there); jobs vanished into the Outsource and shareholders holding their tongues because, well, their retirement plans have profited so WONDERFULLY–and criminally— from this de-construction of the American way of life; borders leaking imported gangs that bring their viciousness with them; children abused–sexual deviants in our OWN Congress,even, and the perps getting to resign and KEEP THEIR PENSIONS? the elderly mistreated and shoved aside; white collar crimes getting excused with a wink and a nod; billions wasted on a drug war the government itself is running, instead of drug users being helped to conquer addiction; veterans treated like so many “acceptable losses” as they come back in coffins covered by a flag betrayed by a people who allowed a fascist to steal the White House by way of a corporate hijacking..
yeah boys, your record is just plain shitty.
Now it’s OUR turn. Or will be. Soon. very soon.
I know you is a man, Man, so it’s hard for you to gulp and admit that a woman MIGHT have made a difference simply because she is a woman and thinks like a woman and experiences life as a woman. And that power in different hands CAN make a difference.
But if you haven’t come up against a truly PISSED off, righteously indignant woman who intends to right something that has been done wrong..if you haven’t quailed in the face of the TREMENDOUSLY CREATIVE AND BREATHTAKINGLY AWESOME power that emanated from just such a person as she began to move,
Then you’re in for a treat :)
A WHOLE reality shift. Think on these things.
July 11th, 2008 at 11:56 pm#120 Fred,
July 12th, 2008 at 12:07 amKucinich…
Bless the Snow family. What a brave man and after fighting so long he deserves to rest in peace.
July 12th, 2008 at 9:21 am