ThinkFast: July 10, 2008
ThinkFast: July 10, 2008
Democrats in Congress are negotiating a compromise on offshore oil drilling. “Democrats also want any compromise plan to include investments in clean and renewable energies, a crackdown on oil speculators and proof that the oil and gas companies are fully utilizing land that is already leased for exploration.”
According to American military and intelligence officials, “there has been an increase in recent months in the number of foreign fighters who have traveled to Pakistan’s tribal areas to join with militants there.” The officials said “the flow may reflect a change that is making Pakistan, not Iraq, the preferred destination for some Sunni extremists” and “shows a further strengthening of the position of the forces of Al Qaeda.”
Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-ND) yesterday “accused an Army general of misleading Congress about problems with a major defense contractor in Iraq.” Dorgan said Maj. Gen. Jerome Johnson told the Senate Armed Services Committee “in April 2007 that there were no widespread problems with water supplied by KBR, after the Pentagon’s inspector general had already found that there were.”
Yesterday, the House approved legislation “designed to ensure the preservation of e-mails by the White House and other federal agencies.” The measure “passed 286-137 in the wake of accusations that the White House had failed to preserve internal e-mails.” The White House has threatened a veto.
“Home foreclosure filings jumped 53 percent in June from a year earlier,” according to real estate data firm RealtyTrac. Though they were down 3 percent from May, “foreclosures are expected to rise further.”
On the trail today: Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) holds a town hall meeting at Bayloff Stamped Products factory in Belleville, Michigan. Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) will unveil his plan for helping working women at a town hall meeting today in Fairfax, VA.
USA Today reports that the candidates’ votes are increasingly falling by the wayside as they campaign for president. Obama returned to Capitol Hill yesterday, marking the 12th day this year that he has showed up for a Senate roll call. McCain “has an even worse attendance record: six days.” The last time he voted was on April 8.
The chief economist of England’s carbon reduction agency criticized the climate plan agreed to at the G8 summit as not doing “a single thing” to reduce emissions. Professor Michael Grubb of the Carbon Trust accused G8 leaders of “an abrogation of responsibility” for their “lack of anything specific that will make any difference.”
Gulf Stream Coach, a leading U.S. trailer manufacturer, “failed to disclose to Hurricane Katrina evacuees or the government its internal findings that formaldehyde in some units exceeded a federal health standard by as much as 45 times in 2006, its chairman acknowledged to Congress yesterday.”
In an overwhelming 412-9 vote, the House yesterday approved a bill that would provide housing assistance to homeless veterans. White House advisers are urging President Bush to veto the legislation because it would require “builders of veterans housing to pay employees prevailing wage.”
“Iran test-fired nine missiles yesterday — including at least one capable of striking Israel.” While Defense Secretary Robert Gates said “the world is not closer to a military confrontation,” Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said, “We will defend American interests and the interests of our allies… No one should be confused about that.”
And finally: Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT) is still a huge Grateful Dead fan. On Tuesday, he “bounded” out of a Capitol elevator singing the song “Casey Jones.” “Driving that train,” he sang, although Roll Call notes he “stopped before completing the second part to that lyric, which goes, High on cocaine.” Leahy said that one of the best moments was when he brought the Grateful Dead “to the Senate Dining Room when [singer and guitarist] Jerry [Garcia] was alive.”
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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Look what I found in my inbox today. Makes a lot of since that we can add this to the republican mess list.
An Open letter to All Airline Customers:
Our country is facing a possible sharp economic downturn because of skyrocketing oil and fuel prices, but by pulling together, we can all do something to help now. Visit http://www.StopOilSpeculationNow.com.
For airlines, ultra-expensive fuel means thousands of lost jobs and severe reductions in air service to both large and small communities. To the broader economy, oil prices mean slower activity and widespread economic pain. This pain can be alleviated, and that is why we are taking the extraordinary step of writing this joint letter to our customers.
Since high oil prices are partly a response to normal market forces, the nation needs to focus on increased energy supplies and conservation. However, there is another side to this story because normal market forces are being dangerously amplified by poorly regulated market speculation.
Twenty years ago, 21 percent of oil contracts were purchased by speculators who trade oil on paper with no intention of ever taking delivery. Today, oil speculators purchase 66 percent of all oil futures contracts, and that reflects just the transactions that are known. Speculators buy up large amounts of oil and then sell it to each other again and again. A barrel of oil may trade 20-plus times before it is delivered and used; the price goes up with each trade and consumers pick up the final tab. Some market experts estimate that current prices reflect as much as $30 to $60 per barrel in unnecessary speculative costs.
Over seventy years ago, Congress established regulations to control excessive, largely unchecked market speculation and manipulation. However, over the past two decades, these regulatory limits have been weakened or removed. We believe that restoring and enforcing these limits, along with several other modest measures, will provide more disclosure, transparency and sound market oversight. Together, these reforms will help cool the over-heated oil market and permit the economy to prosper.
The nation needs to pull together to reform the oil markets and solve this growing problem. We need your help. Get more information and contact Congress by visiting http://www.StopOilSpeculationNow.com.
Robert Fornaro
Chairman, President and CEO
AirTran Airways
Bill Ayer
Chairman, President and CEO
Alaska Airlines, Inc.
Gerard J. Arpey
Chairman, President and CEO
American Airlines, Inc.
Lawrence W. Kellner
Chairman and CEO
Continental Airlines, Inc.
Richard Anderson
CEO
Delta Air Lines, Inc.
Mark B. Dunkerley
President and CEO
Hawaiian Airlines, Inc.
Dave Barger
CEO
JetBlue Airways Corporation
Timothy E. Hoeksema
Chairman, President and CEO
Midwest Airlines
Douglas M. Steenland
President and CEO
Northwest Airlines, Inc.
Gary Kelly
Chairman and CEO
Southwest Airlines Co.
Glenn F. Tilton
Chairman, President and CEO
United Airlines, Inc.
Douglas Parker
July 10th, 2008 at 9:04 amChairman and CEO
US Airways Group, Inc.
California town creates parking havens for homeless
Every night at dusk in this wealthy California coastal town, Barbara Harvey puts down food for her golden retrievers, Phoebe and Ranger, and watches as they go for their evening walk.
Not long afterwards, the 66-year-old mother-of-three clambers into the back of her white Honda CR-V, pulls up a blanket, and beds down for the night, snuggling next to her beloved dogs for comfort.
“For the most part I sleep okay,” says Harvey. “But it is very cramped. And my dogs are big. The CR-V wasn’t designed for people to sleep in.”
This was not quite the old age Harvey had been hoping for. Until recently she rented an apartment that featured a garden bristling with roses and heavy with the scent of jasmine.
But when Harvey’s job as a 37,000-dollar-a-year (23,600 euros) notary evaporated in the US sub-prime mortgage crisis, she found herself penniless and destitute in a town where the average price of a home is one million dollars.
Harvey’s nightly “home” now is the quiet carpark of the historic Santa Barbara Mission, one of 12 sites around the town that is part of a safe parking program run by a non-profit outreach group, New Beginnings.
(snip)
In Santa Barbara, the traditional middle-class has all but disappeared as property prices have soared, according to Gary Linker, executive director of New Beginnings.
(snip)
Linker said that the profile of people enrolled in the program varies. “There are clusters, people who are disabled, people who are mentally ill, substance abusers, people who are war veterans,” he said.
Perhaps surprisingly, around half of the people have jobs.
“In our last appraisal, just around half are working. We have electricians, plumbers, bus drivers. We had one case where a woman had nothing — and now she is the night supervisor at one of our local supermarkets,” he said.
“People of all walks of life working lower-income jobs are in our program.”
While the ultimate aim of the program is to place people in permanent housing, some in the safe-parking scheme are in no hurry to leave.
Guy Trevor, a 53-year-old British-born interior designer who lost his home and his job in the mortgage crisis, says he spent three months living in a pick-up truck before entering the parking scheme.
“The real difference is you’re not sneaking around any more,” Trevor said. “You feel safe. It’s nice to feel safe.”
Former software engineer and dotcom CEO, Jess Jessop, 54, has lived with his two sons in a converted school bus for the past four years, three of them in Santa Barbara. He says the parking scheme is a “life-saver.”
“Wherever else we’ve, it’s almost always okay for one day, maybe two. But nobody wants you to stay, so you’re constantly being forced — usually in the middle of the night — to move on. And that’s pretty tough,” he told AFP.
“But here with this program we’ve had a stable home for over three years, and my kids are part of the community.”
Single parent Jessop, who saw his career implode after the 2001 dot-com crash, says the situation in Santa Barbara has attracted national attention as America’s economic problems have deepened.
“In 2001 there were a bunch of us in the dot-com community who suddenly found out what it was like to be out of work, out of the picture, not earning,” Jessop said.
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/California_town_creates_parking_hav_07092008.html
**I had posted a story months ago about the beginning of this program. This program as well as many tent cities springing up all over California is so sad to read about, on the one hand. On the other hand, it is refreshing that many groups/organizations recognize that there are more and more people who do not fall into the traditional homeless profile who have lost their homes/jobs and are facing situations they never dreamed they would be facing. I guess if you can’t live in your own home, you can at least live in your car. Small comfort I am sure, but it is better than nothing I suppose.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:04 amAt least the Democrats are demanding all the right things for offshore oil drilling compromise. I’d be a lot happier if they were demanding all these things WITHOUT compromise — they should be done, offshore oil drilling or not.
But I recognize that they don’t have the majority necessary to do what’s right. Which is why November can’t come soon enough.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:06 amthe House yesterday approved a bill that would provide housing assistance to homeless veterans. White House advisers are urging President Bush to veto the legislation because it would require “builders of veterans housing to pay employees prevailing wage.
There you have it. Immigration reform cannot be accomplished when even the WH is against paying workers prevailing wages. This should be shouted from the rooftops as a reflection of what the Bush regime believes in.
A dead soldier is less expensive than homeless veterans
July 10th, 2008 at 9:06 am“Iran test-fired nine missiles yesterday — including at least one capable of striking Israel.” While Defense Secretary Robert Gates said “the world is not closer to a military confrontation,” Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said, “We will defend American interests and the interests of our allies… No one should be confused about that.”
Maybe she should have said: “We will defend GOP interests and the interests of our allies… No one should be confused about that.”
That would, hoever, be telling the truth, something that GOP’ers have a major problem with doing. Look forward to a pre-emptive war with Iran when Sen. Obama is elected in November!
July 10th, 2008 at 9:07 amI just made my first Presidential Campaign donation.
To: Cynthia McKinney
Thanks — Obama for gutting the Constitution.
Obama’s vote in favor of cloture, in particular, cemented the complete betrayal of the commitment he made back in October when seeking the Democratic nomination. Back then, Obama’s spokesman — in response to demands for a clear statement of Obama’s views on the spying controversy after he had previously given a vague and noncommittal statement — issued this emphatic vow:
To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.
But the bill today does include retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies. Nonetheless, Obama voted for cloture on the bill — the exact opposition of supporting a filibuster — and then voted for the bill itself. A more complete abandonment of an unambiguous campaign promise is difficult to imagine. I wrote extensively about Obama’s support for the FISA bill, and what it means, earlier today.
With their vote today, the Democratic-led Congress has covered-up years of deliberate surveillance crimes by the Bush administration and the telecom industry, and has dramatically advanced a full-scale attack on the rule of law in this country. As I noted earlier today, Law Professor and Fourth Amendment expert Jonathan Turley was on MSNBC’s Countdown with Rachel Maddow last night and gave as succinct an explanation for what Democrats — not the Bush administration, but Democrats — have done today.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:09 amLast time I looked, June had 3% fewer days than May.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:09 amThe officials said “the flow may reflect a change that is making Pakistan, not Iraq, the preferred destination for some Sunni extremists” and “shows a further strengthening of the position of the forces of Al Qaeda.”
______________________________________________________________
This will be greeted by a giant yawn from Bushco. After all, Pakistan doesn’t have oil.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:09 amDemocrats negotiating a compromise on offshore drilling.
Yesterday, Democrats caved in on telecom immunity.
Tomorrow, Democrats will give Bush/Cheney carte blanche on ?
DEMOCRATS = QUISLINGS
July 10th, 2008 at 9:10 amThat’s a true “Mission Accomplished” moment for the Cheney admin.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:11 amFrom Wapo:
U.S. Troops in Iraq Face A Powerful New Weapon
Use of Rocket-Propelled Bombs Spreads
BAGHDAD, July 9 — Suspected Shiite militiamen have begun using powerful rocket-propelled bombs to attack U.S. military outposts in recent months, broadening the array of weapons used against American troops.
U.S. military officials call the devices Improvised Rocket Assisted Munitions, or IRAMs. They are propane tanks packed with hundreds of pounds of explosives and powered by 107mm rockets. They are often fired by remote control from the backs of trucks, sometimes in close succession. Rocket-propelled bombs have killed at least 21 people, including at least three U.S. soldiers, this year.
The latest reported rocket-propelled bomb attack occurred Tuesday at Joint Security Station Ur, a base in northeastern Baghdad shared by U.S. and Iraqi soldiers. One U.S. soldier and an interpreter were wounded in the attack.
U.S. military officials say IRAM attacks, unlike roadside bombings and conventional mortar or rocket attacks, have the potential to kill scores of soldiers at once. IRAMs are fired at close range, unlike most rockets, and create much larger explosions. Most such attacks have occurred in the capital, Baghdad.
The use of the rocket-propelled bombs reflects militiamen’s ability to use commonly available materials and relatively low-tech weaponry to circumvent security measures that have cost the U.S. military billions of dollars. To combat roadside bombs, known as improvised explosive devices or IEDs, U.S. and Iraqi troops have set up scores of checkpoints throughout the capital, increased patrols and purchased hundreds of armored vehicles that can resist such attacks.
A June report on the Web site Long War Journal called the explosives-filled propane tanks “flying IEDs.”
Militia members and insurgents have at times increased the sophistication of their weapons, but the rocket-propelled bombs are makeshift devices that also have been used in recent years by insurgents in Colombia. Propane tanks are ubiquitous in Iraq, where the fuel is widely used for cooking, making it hard for security forces to stop production of the bombs.
U.S. military officials in Baghdad have noted the use of rocket-propelled bombs in press releases in recent months. But they have not publicly discussed their use or their concerns about the weapons at length because most of the information about them is classified, U.S. military officials said.
“IRAM attacks could be very tragic against us,” said Col. William B. Hickman, the commander of the 2nd Brigade Combat Team of the 101st Airborne Division, which operates in northwestern Baghdad. “We take them very seriously.”
As the number of U.S. soldiers in Baghdad has begun to drop with the end of the “surge” of additional forces, U.S. military officials are placing a higher percentage of their troops in small outposts in densely populated neighborhoods. U.S. military officials say this is crucial to ensure the continued training of Iraq’s security forces, win the trust of the capital’s residents and improve local governance. But deployments in small outposts — some are manned by just one platoon — also have made soldiers more vulnerable.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:11 amSorry,
July 10th, 2008 at 9:12 amI must give credit to Salon’s Glenn Greenwald’s for the above
bold text (#6)
ACLU, EFF will challenge FISA update in court
As the Senate voted to endorse a Bush-administration backed plan to expand its surveillance authority and grant retroactive legal immunity to telecommunications companies that facilitated warrantless wiretapping, the American Civil Liberties Union unveiled plans to challenge the new law in court.
“This fight is not over. We intend to challenge this bill as soon as President Bush signs it into law,” said Jameel Jaffer, Director of the ACLU National Security Project, in a statement provided to RAW STORY as the Senate was voting. “The bill allows the warrantless and dragnet surveillance of Americans’ international telephone and email communications. It plainly violates the Fourth Amendment.”
After defeating three attempts to improve the update to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the Senate was expected to President Bush a FISA update Wednesday. Senators approved the FISA update on a 69-28 vote. After the vote, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which is representing plaintiffs in lawsuits against the phone companies, also vowed to fight the bill in court, confirming plans outlined last week.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/ACLU_will_challenge_FISA_update_in_0709.html
I am feeling battered and bruised emotionally after yesterday’s vote; but the Constitution looks worse. The ACLU always fights for our liberties. Since I never give up, I’m going to fight this also. Here is a link to the ACLU to donate: https://secure.aclu.org/site/Donation?ACTION=SHOW_DONATION_OPTIONS&CAMPAIGN_ID=4981
The ACLU has been the Guardians of Liberty, they help defend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. What Bush and The Senate did was dishonor this great nation and what it stands for.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:13 amI know a lot of people on this site will give me crap for voting for Cythnia McKinney.
But, you know I don’t care anymore. I see Obama’s shift in certain positions reprehensible.
People will say a vote for McKinney means a vote for McBush.
I am between a Barock and a Hard Place.
Obama Great Shift — shifted me to the Green Party.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:15 amThe White House responded with a veto threat (regarding legislation designed to ensure the preservation of e-mails by the White House and other federal agencies), saying the measure would result in “an excessive and inappropriate” intrusion into the activities of an incumbent president and his or her staff.
____________________________________________________________
Oh, the irony. I guess the White House is all for the fourth amendment when it applies to them.
What part of “these records belong to the people” do they not understand?
July 10th, 2008 at 9:17 am“Democrats in Congress are negotiating a compromise on offshore oil drilling.”
should be:
“Democrats in Congress are negotiating a complete capitulation (bordering on rolling over and taking it in the bvtt) on offshore oil drilling.”
Fixed that for you, TP…
July 10th, 2008 at 9:17 amMcKinney/ Kuchinich ‘12!
July 10th, 2008 at 9:17 amJuly 10th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-ND) yesterday “accused an Army general of misleading Congress about problems with a major defense contractor in Iraq.”
__________________________________________________________
Why do we still use terms like “misleading” when it’s more accurate to say “lying through their teeth”?
July 10th, 2008 at 9:19 am#13 Freedom Rebel Says:
——————————————————————————–
ACLU, EFF will challenge FISA update in court
ood morning, FR! I am glad that some are maintaining a healthy, positive attitude. Personally, turning these issues over to the court that elected Dubya does not offer me any hope or comfort.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:20 amHeaven forbid construction workers get a decent wage.
Meanwhile, pharmaceutical companies get full retail via the prescription drug boondoggle and Dick Grasso, former head of the NYSE, a not-for-profit position, BTW, gets to keep his $188 million payday. Why don’t GOoPers just come out and say they’ll screw anyone to feed the aristocracy.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:21 amKay:
I’m with you. We have been betrayed. Criminality has been assented to by the Democratic leadership. I will not vote for any candidate put forth by either party. Some might say I’m wasting my vote. I see it as doing my duty.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:21 amBTW: All other issues (other than FannieMae and FreddieMac insolvency) pale in comparison to the FISA treason.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:23 am#14 Kay
People will say a vote for McKinney means a vote for McBush.
I am between a Barock and a Hard Place.
Obama Great Shift — shifted me to the Green Party.
Good Morning Kay :)
I know a great many people that are going to vote for the green party and others (write ins). You are voting your conscience. It’s better than not voting at all.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:24 amIn the spirit of “bipartisanship” the DemocRAT Party will compromise with the Republicans but then strip out any measures to promote alternative enegy or environmental concerns. Bush and the Republicans will get exactly what they want and America be damned. Today’s bipartisanship is nothing more than one party rule. Welcome to America’s newest Banana Republic. A police state no less.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:28 amFreedom/Marcus:
thanks for the kind words. I do feel betrayed. I am proud of financial donation to the Green Party (albeit, a small amount of money) —
Barack Obama just like the Democratics in Congress are turncoats. People like Pelosi (Impeachment is OFF the table), Jane Harman (S1959, the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007.)
July 10th, 2008 at 9:30 amObama: Business as Usual.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:32 am#20 And the beat goes on Says:
13 Freedom Rebel Says:
——————————————————————————–
ACLU, EFF will challenge FISA update in court
ood morning, FR! I am glad that some are maintaining a healthy, positive attitude. Personally, turning these issues over to the court that elected Dubya does not offer me any hope or comfort.
Good Morning :) I understand completely. Since what they did was unconstitutional yesterday, I hope that the law will prevail in the end. With Scalia in the Supreme Court I shudder but, we have other Supreme Court Justices that don’t always agree with him. That is where my hope comes from.
Have a good day…
July 10th, 2008 at 9:33 amPima County, AZ Transportation Election Was Rigged, According to Affidavit from County Employee
Extraordinary Evidence Presented at Presser Today Alleges Diebold Tabulator Was Used to ‘Fix’ Results of 2006 Ballot Initiative on Orders from County Election Officials
State AG Called on to Preserve and Manually Count Ballots from Controversial Proposition…
Pima County, Arizona’s Diebold vote tabulation system was manipulated to “pass” a 2006 ballot initiative when, in fact, the measure was actually voted down, according to a startling new allegation revealed today by election watchdog group, Audit AZ.
The long-running election integrity battles in Pima flared up again this afternoon as an explosive affidavit from a former county official was released at a press conference held by the tenacious local organization. On the heels of several recent Audit AZ court victories, resulting in the unprecedented if long overdue release of mountains of previously “proprietary” Diebold election databases, today’s presser was well attended by much of the local media.
(snip)
The potentially explosive new piece of information introduced during the press conference was a sworn affidavit from Zbigniew Osmolski, a former Pima County employee, stating that Bryan Crane, the computer operator at the Pima County Elections Division, told him, during a conversation in a bar that the RTA Election was “fixed…on the instructions of his bosses.”
During that conversation Bryan Crane told me he “fixed” the RTA, or Regional Transportation Authority election on the instructions of his bosses and he did what he was told to do. Mr. Crane expressed his concern about being indicted and said he would like to talk but couldn’t trust anyone.
The affidavit is the latest in a series of red flags concerning the RTA election. Other red flags include: (1) This was a sales tax increase, the type of vote that usually fails, and it looked like it was going down in the days prior to the election; (2) The database on the vote counting computer was erased and replaced a day into the early ballot scanning; (3) Unauthorized vote total summary reports were printed during the counting; (4) A tape of the original ballot layout stored with the Secretary of State — which could have indicated if the vote was flipped — was sent back to the County, who lost it; (5) An investigation into the election completed by the Attorney General’s office was cursory and inconclusive.
A video of today’s press conference will soon be posted at Google Video and a few other places.
Thanks for the tip Calibleu!
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6160
**This week a Regional Transportation election, November 2008…any questions? We have got to get as many volunteers as we can to monitor the upcoming election. If we allow our vote to go the way of our fourth amendment rights, we can say goodbye to our constitution and our country. Isn’t it sad that it’s all come down to this? Make sure you follow the link to the original article to see copies of the affidavits.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:35 amAll this Fisa handwringing is unbecoming. Let me channel Don Rumsfeld for a minute.
Yes, Obama decided to take the issue away from McCain, by switching his vote. Yes, a great many other democrats did the same, and probably for the same reason. Yes, it’s true that the constitutionality of the Fisa deal was always a problem, and might scuttle the whole thing. But, is anyone who would throw their votes to another candidate, solely upon this issue, looking for a reason not to vote for him? That’s an unknown known (I think).
Were was I? Channeling Rummy always gets me a little dizzy…
Anyway, my point is, if Obama had sampled the sense of the senate, and found the issue would be decided against his previously-stated political position (and being a lawyer, believed it would never pass constitutional muster anyway), he’s more guilty of Clintonian slipperyness, than flip-flop, right? Now, Johnny can’t use the issue agaimst him, without it reflecting badly upon himself.
Anyway, off to work…
July 10th, 2008 at 9:36 amMaybe the Democrats could just do one big compromise and adopt the Republican platform all at once, instead of doing one “compromise” at a time.
What do Democrats stand for anymore anyway? They campaign as being against the war and for the Constitution, then they govern as Bush toadies who respond to broken laws and ignored supoenas with, at most, a snitty note.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:38 am#4 Zimzone Says:
the House yesterday approved a bill that would provide housing assistance to homeless veterans. White House advisers are urging President Bush to veto the legislation because it would require “builders of veterans housing to pay employees prevailing wage.
There you have it. Immigration reform cannot be accomplished when even the WH is against paying workers prevailing wages. This should be shouted from the rooftops as a reflection of what the Bush regime believes in.
A dead soldier is less expensive than homeless veterans
Good Morning Zimzone :)
You got that right. Plus we can’t forget what they are paying all those mercenaries. White House advisers are complaining about prevailing wages, that is a joke. What about the $500 to $1,000 a day that is being paid to our Soldiers of Fortune? Reality Check.
Have a good day!!
July 10th, 2008 at 9:41 amI supported Obama fully – against Republicans, racists, and Hillary supporters.
He has proven he will not do his duty to uphold our Constitution. This was an acid test. You do NOT go along to get along when it comes to violating the law, especially when the victim is everyone. This BS is how we got where we are.
Vote for him if you want – you’ll get the same thing the Republicans got from Bush/Cheney.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:42 amThanks, barfly.
I’ve been in a foul mood since yesterday afternoon’s FISA scam.
I take our personal liberties seriously. My Grandfather, Father, myself & my Son have all served in the military on the premise that Americans would never be spied on by their own leaders.
I’m not over this yet. I realize Obama saw the writing on the wall. I realize that now McCain can’t pull the bogus story of Obama being soft on security…but WHO’S security are they ‘protecting’?
Are we not the citizens the 4th amendment protects?
Again, WHO are they ‘protecting’?
July 10th, 2008 at 9:43 amMaybe Obama and McCain can run as Co-Presidents: Start a whole new party, hence, abandoning the VP’s
Repubocrats!
Since, there are, now, virtually the same!
July 10th, 2008 at 9:43 amoops!
Since, they are, now, virtually the same!
July 10th, 2008 at 9:45 amPerhaps Leahy should be singing U.S. Blues…
July 10th, 2008 at 9:46 amThe Romans had co-Emperors for a while (until they started killing each other).
July 10th, 2008 at 9:47 amThe ACLU is placing a full-page ad in a national newspaper, announcing the lawsuit and the reasons for it. You can add your name to the list of those patriots signing the letter here:
http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/fisaad
July 10th, 2008 at 9:48 am‘beat…’new California homeless:
The only media outlets I know that have reported on foreclosure/reducnacy homelessness are the AFP and BBC. I might have seen one US mention of it, but only online.
As you say this is “old news”–except of course that the US MSM regards it as news they don’t want to report. Despicable.
Hats off to the Safe Haven organization for providing some practical help to these people.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:51 amThis is sounding frighteningly close to the “a vote for Gore would be the same as a vote for Bush, so vote Nader, et.al.” …
Look where that got us.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:53 amSince when have the Democrats compromised on anything — except their principles, that is.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:54 amRay Edmonds Says:
You’re free to leave if you’re unhappy with topics being discussed. :)
July 10th, 2008 at 9:58 am#2 And the beat goes on
**I had posted a story months ago about the beginning of this program. This program as well as many tent cities springing up all over California is so sad to read about, on the one hand. On the other hand, it is refreshing that many groups/organizations recognize that there are more and more people who do not fall into the traditional homeless profile who have lost their homes/jobs and are facing situations they never dreamed they would be facing. I guess if you can’t live in your own home, you can at least live in your car. Small comfort I am sure, but it is better than nothing I suppose.
Good Post :) I agree with you, many people could not foresee this ever happening to them. It is so sad to see so many without the basics. This is why so many food banks keeping running out of food. The administration just doesn’t understand why. I know they are not clueless, they just refuse to address this ever growing problem. Because they would have to admit they were complete failures on every single major issue.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:58 ammisshusseinmolly:
Why do we still use terms like “misleading” when it’s more accurate to say “lying through their teeth”?
I don’t want to rag on Dorgan, but why is he making this observation now? KBR providing contaminated water ( and charging $100 per laundry -load amongst other things) was reported when, a year ago? Dorgan should have known this at the hearing and called bullshit on it then whilst the cameras were rolling.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:58 amSenate bows to Bush, approves surveillance bill
I had no idea how “far-left” I was until the MSM told me that my concerns about law-breaking telecoms (if they did nothing illegal then why are they worried about retroactive immunity?) were just crazy. Crazy they tell me!
I guess we’re supposed to just worry about SOME of the Constitution while pretending that other bits don’t matter.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:59 amSo now that Bush has been given the legal authority to break any law he pleases with no recourse what is to stop him from having his corporate buddies at Diebold fix the next election. I can hear Bush’s attorneys now, “The President’s decision to install John McCain as the next President was the right thing to do. Obama would not have continued President Bush’s agenda and would have compromised national security. In a time of war the President has wide discretion as to what needs to be done to protect American soil. This is a post 9/11 world we live in and McCain clearly understands what this Country needs. That is why he has selected Dick Cheney to continue in his role as VP. As to the rumors regarding Mr. Obamas sudden dissapearance we have no comment at this time other to say that the President reserves the right to arrest anyone considered to be acting against the GOP…er I mean America’s interests. I would also like to reiterate at this time that America doesn’t torture. As to your earlier question, yes Michael Mukasey will be staying on as AG until further notice.”
July 10th, 2008 at 10:01 amDemocrats in Congress are negotiating a compromise on offshore oil drilling.
I think we all should know what this mean. The “compromise” will be Dems rolling over and giving the Bush Admin every demand they could possibly want, with a few bucks thrown in for renewable sources to act as a sweetener. Bush will sign it with a nice little signing statement attached saying there won’t really be any money for renewables, and the Dems will sulk and wish there was some way to not get rooked every time. I’m really, REALLY tired of this…..
July 10th, 2008 at 10:03 amWhat is this….Red State forum?
July 10th, 2008 at 10:07 amRay Edmonds Says:
You seem to not understand what this site is about.
Newbies are like that, trying to dictate the direction of an OPEN THREAD.
Although you apparently like the “sound” of your words being typed, we don’t share your enthusiasm.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:09 amWhat is this….Red State forum?
The losers who get banned there often end up here.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:10 amHere’s my take:
This is what the Obamas and McBush’s of the world want:
July 10th, 2008 at 10:10 ammake the sheeple so dizzy from High gas prices, High food prices, Foreclosures and Soothe them with a Stimulus Check (of course to be spent at f____ing WalMart)and Mindless Entertanment (American Idle) that we do not care, do not know that Our 4th Amendment is Being Gutted Before Our Very Eyes.
From America blog today:
When Gina Gray took over as the public affairs director at Arlington National Cemetery about three months ago, she discovered that cemetery officials were attempting to impose new limits on media coverage of funerals of the Iraq war dead — even after the fallen warriors’ families granted permission for the coverage. She said that the new restrictions were wrong and that Army regulations didn’t call for such limitations.
Six weeks after The Washington Post reported her efforts to restore media coverage of funerals, Gray was demoted. Twelve days ago, the Army fired her.
“Had I not put my foot down, had I just gone along with it and not said regulations were being violated, I’m sure I’d still be there,” said the jobless Gray, who, over lunch yesterday in Crystal City, recounted what she is certain is her retaliatory dismissal. “It’s about doing the right thing.”
Army Secretary Pete Geren, in an interview last night, said he couldn’t comment on Gray’s firing. But he said the overall policy at Arlington is correct. “It appears to me that we’ve struck the right balance, consistent with the wishes of the family,” the secretary said.
Sounds more like the Bush Crime Family wishes.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:11 amI also blame the Corporate Bought-and-Sold Media for being such Cowards. We have a Lame Stream Press that has cowered to the Bully Bush Pulpit since day 1.
Since, Cheney’s Revenge for his humiliating defeat in Watergate: 9/11 — this Press continues to Avoid the Real Issues.
I guess it’s more important to discuss whether a Presidential candidate is wearing a flag pin or not.
Where are the Intrepid reporters? Where are the Deep Throats willing to risk their lives to Get the Truth Out? Where are the 9/11 Whistleblowers?
July 10th, 2008 at 10:21 amMcCain repeats his mantra for solving the problem ofjob losses–”job training.” Will anyone ever ask him what training? For which jobs? “Job training” is just another insubstantial “will-o’-the-wisp” just like “change.”
July 10th, 2008 at 10:25 amIf our congress (converted to a sheep dog ala Dumb and Dumber) can’t read the fourth amendment, let’s hope that the next branch in our system of checks and balances, the courts, will. I trust that our liberties groups will keep attacking. They ARE what we expected the 110th congress to be.
I’m still voting for Obama (very painful for me to uphold), but the ammunition of criticizing those opting for third-party candidates has been taken away.
I’ve got three words of advice for choosing a great democratic candidate on the open political market — Kucinich, Kucinich, Kucinich.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:26 amMcWars Job Training Program:
handling “enemy combatants” into detention centers.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:27 amWe Must exterminate the Truth Tellers.
Freedom Rebel Says:
The ACLU has been the Guardians of Liberty, they help defend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. What Bush and The Senate did was dishonor this great nation and what it stands for.
Thanks. The monthly contribution I was going to send to Barack Obama will now go to the ACLU.
It’s a very sad day for our country.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:27 amMore people losing their livelihood to fascism. Today’s victim is Gina Gray.
Good morning, Marie.
Good morning, Freedom Rebel.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:29 amMarcus Aurelius Says:
Kay:
I’m with you. We have been betrayed. Criminality has been assented to by the Democratic leadership. I will not vote for any candidate put forth by either party. Some might say I’m wasting my vote. I see it as doing my duty.
I understand where you are both coming from, but do you really think our country can survive another 4 years of Republican rule? You need to think long and hard about that.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:29 amKay Says:
McWars Job Training Program:
handling “enemy combatants” into detention centers.
We Must exterminate the Truth Tellers.
Well, if you and others who are disappointed in Obama vote for Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader, you will be condemning this country to what you are criticizing here.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:30 amIf the Democratic controlled senate since 2006 is any indication of where we are headed :
This Country is Lost.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:30 amIn an overwhelming 412-9 vote, the House yesterday approved a bill that would provide housing assistance to homeless veterans. White House advisers are urging President Bush to veto the legislation because it would require “builders of veterans housing to pay employees prevailing wage.”
After the veto, the demowimps in congress will cave and fail to override it. 412-9 is just short of what they’d need to show some courage :)~
July 10th, 2008 at 10:32 amI’ve been thinking a lot since the Democrats gave away our right to privacy. It was the final straw, and to think that Obama–a Constitutional lawyer–supported this gigantic dump on the citizens of the United States is beyond comprehension.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:33 amI no longer listening to people who say: “A vote for someone other than Obama is a vote for McCain.” Well, I look at it this way: it’s not my responsibility as a citizen to vote anti-McCain. It’s my responsibility as a citizen to vote for the candidate who most conforms to my ideals and beliefs. It’s the responsibility of the Democratic Leadership (whoever they are) to keep the party together, and they are failing every step of the way.
Hey Bilbo, no surprise now that the suspension of your monthly financial contribution to Obama’s campaign is now a termination.
What lecture will he give “his friends on the left” now?
July 10th, 2008 at 10:34 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
But I recognize that they don’t have the majority necessary to do what’s right.
Or the balls to do so :(
July 10th, 2008 at 10:35 amOn Obama
So you, Kay, (and a bunch of other Obama supporters) feel betrayed. A lot of Clinton supporters who were prepared to vote for Obama must feel doubly betrayed–I certainly do. But I’m still going to vote for him if he gets the nomination.
Given that Obama jumped into the race without even serving one term in the Senate was testament to his massive ambition–for which he was praised but Clinton was derided for, even though until he announced she was the front runner and had ‘paid her dues’.
Now Obama seems to be demonstrating the “triangulation” that Clinton was always loudly criticized for. In your case it seems you’ve found your limit of hope and faith, and justifiably too, but there are others I’m sure who aren’t there yet.
What staggers me is why Obama thinks his latest actions are necessary, desirable or justifiable. Is he “polticking” or is he more conservative than even I believed he really was/is?
If his FISA vote is supposed to undermine the “soft on security” weakness he’s supposed to have ( as has been argued in this thread), well he’s surely going to lose the votes of those who not only understand the issue clearly but hold it as an essential issue. As ill-informed as the voting age population is when it comes to those who DO vote the ratio of idiot to informed is much smaller, especially on the Democratic side. It seems Obama is trading guaranteed support for marginal gains from the idiots and “independents”.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:37 amAgain I see no reason for this. Though the economy polls highest, civil liberties and the constitution still score significantly as areas of concern–among DEMOCRATS. As Dems beat the GOP 3 or 4 to 1 in the caucuses what the hell does Obama need fringe votes for? Either he’s getting terrible advice and guidance or he’s a bullshit artist or he’s not that smart or a combination.
Yet I’m still going to vote for the Dem nominee, no matter what. That will be my ‘conscience’ vote.
Bilbo Hussein Baggins says:
The monthly contribution I was going to send to Barack Obama will now go to the ACLU.
As a member of the ACLU I can assure you that there is no more staunch defender of the civil liberties and Constitutional rights of ALL AMERICANS than that fine institution.
Bilbo Hussein Baggins says: do you really think our country can survive another 4 years of Republican rule? You need to think long and hard about that.
Thats the #1 question all Democrats, Independents, or progressives need to ask themselves. No matter what stumbles Obama makes on the trail, can we really afford to not rally around him and move forward, united, to make an effort at getting this country off its horrific course? Do you think another Republican term or two will get the Constitution or Department of Justice back to its pre-Bush status? The Supreme Court would be irretrievably altered by another Republican president.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:40 amRay Edmonds Says:
mary,
No one cares about FISA. People are concerned about their declining living standards and declining wages. You should go out and talk with real people.
Well, if real people were paying attention, they would be concerned. Unfortunately low-information voters like your “real people” and yourself are who got us into this mess in the first place.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:42 amObama voted for cloture on the bill — the exact opposition of supporting a filibuster — and then voted for the bill itself.
The cynic in me is not buying the scenario that he is taking the politically safe stance in order to not jeopardize his election in November. Is it possible he is looking forward to all that power too?
P.S. I just ripped the Obama sign from the front of my house. Now I need to be won back and shown exactly why I should get off my ass and vote for Obama in November. I am livid.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:42 amKay Says: If the Democratic controlled senate since 2006 is any indication of where we are headed : This Country is Lost.
I disagree. There are plenty of house races with progressive challengers not just to GOP seat but Blue-Dog Dems too ( assuming that these candidates aren’t bullshitting as well). It’s not much but its all we’ve got, outside of open revolt.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:42 amIn a perfect world maybe. Your statement reflects the exact scenario of 2000. I will thank you once again for siding with the right.
Your responsibility is to do the best you can for America. Do you really think that helping elect another republican is the best thing you can do for her?
July 10th, 2008 at 10:43 amrhf, what a sore loser.
You deserve your world of anger and hate.
It’s all you have now, and apparently, all you ever had.
I’ll continue to enjoy your batshit crazy rants as a sign that we’re doing the right thing.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:45 amrepublicans hate facts Says:
If f**king MORONS like YOU had listened to those of us during the PRIMARIES that pointed out Obama was MORE CONSERVATIVE than Hillary, we’d be voting in November for the candidate that stood up for our rights yesterday. Instead all of you TARDs in the Zooniac/Obamahead camps kept repeating REPUBLICAN TALKING POINT SMEARS against Hillary, and REFUSED TO EVEN LOOK at Obama’s voting record and platform.
Knew it wouldn’t take long for RFH to show up. No RHF, you are the f**king moron. The only reason why Hillary voted no on the FISA bill was because it had zero political consequence for her and would be PR. I know in my heart of hearts that if she was the candidate she would have done the same thing that Obama did.
I knew what Obama’s voting record was and I thoroughly studied his platform. And in the end the was simply the best candidate. Before FISA I was an enthusiastic supporter. Now I will simply vote for him because we have no choice.
But, it would not have been different if we had voted for Hillary. She had the political cover she needed to vote no on FISA. I also believe it was a calculated move on her part to get the troops to rally around her. I still believe she’s going to try to pull something at the convention.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:45 am#78:
open revolt.
Now, you’re talkin’!!
July 10th, 2008 at 10:45 amBTW, my comments at #73 aren’t directed to kay specifically, just pondering out loud–I just can’t understand what the hell Obama has been doing lately.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:45 am#64 Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
Freedom Rebel Says:
The ACLU has been the Guardians of Liberty, they help defend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. What Bush and The Senate did was dishonor this great nation and what it stands for.
Thanks. The monthly contribution I was going to send to Barack Obama will now go to the ACLU.
It’s a very sad day for our country.
Thank you Bilbo :) They are one of the last line of defense we have. They are a great constant in these uncertain times we are witnessing.
Have a good day..
July 10th, 2008 at 10:46 ami see the anti-bama-bots are here, planting the seeds of discontent…
and sending money to the ACLU makes a LOT more sense than wasting it on useless 3rd party “candidates”…
OVERWHELMING DEMOCRATIC VOTER TURNOUT.
THEY CAN’T STEAL IT IF IT’S NOT CLOSE.
IT CAN’T BE CLOSE.
… but some people just don’t get it…
they prefer to whine.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:47 amFreedom Rebel Says:
The ACLU has been the Guardians of Liberty, they help defend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. What Bush and The Senate did was dishonor this great nation and what it stands for.
How about we let the ACLU and the America haters in congress change places. The congresswimps might learn something about the constitution.
Good morning Freb :)
July 10th, 2008 at 10:48 amrepublicans hate facts
You can’t possibly be serious in proposing that Clinton was the voice of those who are concerned about our liberties, Iraq, etc.? She was as guilty as anyone of the same strategy that Obama seems to be using now.
And we’re being sexist by not supporting Hillary? No, we’re just supporting the better candidate. End of story.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:49 amIt’s my responsibility as a citizen to vote for the candidate who most conforms to my ideals and beliefs. – lefttown
no, it’s NOT… unless you are a citizen of “lefttown”…
selfish idjits…
July 10th, 2008 at 10:50 amfun with
fox.
enjoy :)
*
good luck.
$
July 10th, 2008 at 10:52 am#65 McWars Says:
More people losing their livelihood to fascism. Today’s victim is Gina Gray.
Good morning, Marie.
Good morning, Freedom Rebel.
Good to see you this morning McWars :)
Never a dull moment in the US. This administration is doing it’s darnest to make it even harder to keep up. Between the remodeling on my home and the work I do with autistic teenagers they both keep me sane and grounded. Life’s little gifts.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:54 amjabberjaw Says:
My only real dilemna was picking between Nader and the Green Party candidate. Both are deserving, but the tiebreaker for me was the fact that Nader actually has a chance of hitting 10% and gettign into the debates. The current Green Party candidate, unfortunately, has no realistic chance of ever hitting 10%.
it’s their poor
spelling that
reveals them for
who they really are.
:)
thank you.
*
July 10th, 2008 at 10:54 amDemocrats in Congress are negotiating a compromise on offshore oil drilling. “Democrats also want any compromise plan to include investments in clean and renewable energies, a crackdown on oil speculators and proof that the oil and gas companies are fully utilizing land that is already leased for exploration.”
Holy crap! If this is anything like the FISA compromise then our coastlines will be dotted with derricks and Alaskan moose will be bathing in oil.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
July 10th, 2008 at 10:54 amYesterday while mulling why Obama caved, why many of the Dems cave, an answer came to me. Wellstone.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:55 amkaty Says:
i see the anti-bama-bots are here, planting the seeds of discontent… and sending money to the ACLU makes a LOT more sense than wasting it on useless 3rd party “candidates”…
OVERWHELMING DEMOCRATIC VOTER TURNOUT.
THEY CAN’T STEAL IT IF IT’S NOT CLOSE.
IT CAN’T BE CLOSE.
… but some people just don’t get it…
they prefer to whine.
Hi Katy: Please don’t tell the people who are expressing their outrage about what Obama did that they are whining. We need to vent our anger someplace and since here is where we hang out, it seems like the appropriate place to do it.
I am outraged and very sad about what Obama did. But I will still vote for him. He is still light years better than McCain and a vote for a third party candidate is suicide. It’s what got us into this mess in the first place (along with the Supremes anointing Bush).
Rather than calling our brethren who are reacting badly to what Obama did whiners, I think we will be better served if we reason with them.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:56 amI seem to remember that Billary was a nominee, but isn’t anymore.
Didn’t your mama teach you not to cry over spilled milk rhf?
Or does your family own a “whine-ery”?
July 10th, 2008 at 10:56 amKay Says:
Maybe Obama and McCain can run as Co-Presidents: Start a whole new party, hence, abandoning the VP’s
Repubocrats!
I say call’em Pubic-rats :)~
July 10th, 2008 at 10:57 amRHFacts…
I feel your pain.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:57 amThough there’s always the possibility that the shoe might have been on the other foot. That’s the trouble with this whole set-up, there’s so much conjecture involved. That’s why I stopped arguing once I’d cast my caucus vote (when the race was still open)–I couldn;t see myself persuading 20,000 people that MY choice was irrefutably the best—I just didn’t know, it was just my choice, that’s all.
RHF and Jabberjaw are both RNC shills acting like they’re interested in the same causes we are.
To people like Kay, you should vote your convictions, definitely. But this constant badmouthing of Obama is just what the Rovian Republicans are counting on. Why is it that the Republican pundits and bloggers understand that it’s going to be either McCain or Obama but progressives don’t seem to get it. No matter how mad you are at Obama he might have a motive and might end up ensuring justice is served. With McCain Bushco will definitely get a free pass. What good will a McCain presidency accomplish.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:58 amrepublicans hate facts Says:
Look rhf, I took fire here for defending the attacks on hillary as fueling the fires of the right against our own. Don’t preach to me.
I have supported Obama from early on but thought that attacks against any democrat in an open forum was just fodder for the right and I was villified for that.
My interest is in changing the direction that this country is headed and making decisions based on emotion are exactly what got us bush to begin with.
I am no more happy with the latest turn of events than anyone here, however the realities are before us. Will we hand the republicans another win because you now equate Obama with all republicans?
Do you honestly think we would be in iraq now if Gore had been elected? Do you think our economy would be tanking? On and on it goes and you know it will continue if a republican is elected. You must make rational decisions based on the real world conditions……not get mad and take your marbles and go home.
Obama will help take us in a different direction. You know that in your heart, you are just angry.
July 10th, 2008 at 10:59 amPaul W Says:
Democrats in Congress are negotiating a compromise on offshore oil drilling. “Democrats also want any compromise plan to include investments in clean and renewable energies, a crackdown on oil speculators and proof that the oil and gas companies are fully utilizing land that is already leased for exploration.”
Holy crap! If this is anything like the FISA compromise then our coastlines will be dotted with derricks and Alaskan moose will be bathing in oil.
I don’t think that the Democrats in Congress will follow through with offshore drilling. I think they are using it as a vehicle to bring front and center the real problems like the oil speculators. I don’t know why they are using this vehicle to do it, though. Why don’t they just introduce a bill that closes the “Enron loophole” that is allowing people to speculate on the sale of our energy? Oh, I forgot. They won’t be able to pass a bill like that because the Republicans will filibuster. Well, I guess that answers my question. Until we have a veto proof majority in Congress, they will have to manipulate the system to try to get the bills passed that this country so sorely needs.
If we don’t get a veto proof majority, the Democrats need to start fighting back. Every time the Republicans threaten a filibuster, the Democrats need to publicize it and make them actually conduct a veto. After the third or fourth time they are forced to read the telephone book for days on end, they will give it up. It is ridiculous how the Democrats cave the minute the Republicans threaten a filibuster. It is also ridiculous that the Republicans have filibustered more bills than ever in the history of this country.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:00 amGlenn Greenwald has a column out this morning that is well worth the read. The segment that stood out for me was:
“I’m increasingly convinced that the effort to battle the growing lawlessness of our political class and the sprawling surveillance state that assaults core Constitutional liberties will come not from the Democratic Party, but from citizen coalitions….
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
(Fred– Please don’t presume to tell me what my responsiblity is. If Obama wants my vote, he’ll have to earn it. I’m not sure what he can do at this point to gain the trust and respect of Americans who are “paying attention.” He’s counting on “low information” voters. Those kinds of voters can be pretty fickle, and I don’t think they can be completely trusted to show up at the polls. Good luck to him.)
July 10th, 2008 at 11:04 amjabberjaw Says:
My only real dilemna was picking between Nader and the Green Party candidate. Both are deserving, but the tiebreaker for me was the fact that Nader actually has a chance of hitting 10% and gettign into the debates. The current Green Party candidate, unfortunately, has no realistic chance of ever hitting 10%.
You are so full of $hit it’s coming out your eyeballs. First, Nader is at 2%, I proved that to you yesterday.
Second, a vote for Nader or the Green Party Candidate is in actuality a vote for McBush. It’s pretty evident to me that is your intention, to encourage people to throw away their vote in order to keep your party in power. You want them in power so they can finish the job they have started and that would be to turn it from the United States of America into the United Corporations of America. Hopefully the people of this country are now smart enough to not allow that to happen.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:06 am#77 Exit Stage Left Says:
Obama voted for cloture on the bill — the exact opposition of supporting a filibuster — and then voted for the bill itself.
The cynic in me is not buying the scenario that he is taking the politically safe stance in order to not jeopardize his election in November. Is it possible he is looking forward to all that power too?
P.S. I just ripped the Obama sign from the front of my house. Now I need to be won back and shown exactly why I should get off my ass and vote for Obama in November. I am livid.
Good Morning Exit Stage Left :) Are we cranky this morning? I understand, being betrayed is not something anyone gets over quickly if ever.
As much as I am angry like you and many others; to me it is a matter of McCain and a 100 year war. I can’t be a party to that innocent killing of Iraqis or the loss of one my soldier on my conscience. That is one of the few driving motivations for me to vote for Obama. He will make sure we get out, most likely in less than 2 years.
I don’t want the Rich to get another tax break, while I watch my neighbors and friends suffer with this economy. If too many votes go to a third party it will hurt Obama’s chances to win. I agree we need to send a message that we are pissed off and are not going to take it anymore. Emails and grass-roots organizations are doing just that. I find it a good way to work out my anger at having the 4th amendment jutted. Plus I’m sending the ACLU money to fight this unlawful bill that will be a law. I feel your pain, but I can’t let McCain win this election because I let anger cloud my judgement of the goal. That is what the Republicans are counting on and they do this everytime. Just food for thought. I hope in some way this helps some.
Have a good one!!
July 10th, 2008 at 11:08 am#lefttown Says:
(Fred– Please don’t presume to tell me what my responsiblity is. If Obama wants my vote, he’ll have to earn it. I’m not sure what he can do at this point to gain the trust and respect of Americans who are “paying attention.” He’s counting on “low information” voters. Those kinds of voters can be pretty fickle, and I don’t think they can be completely trusted to show up at the polls. Good luck to him.)
And good luck to us if enough people like you throw their vote away or just don’t vote. You will be dooming your country if you do that. I feel the same towards people like you as I did towards the Hillary voters who were threatening to vote for McCain because Hillary lost. You obviously care more for your ego than you do for your country.
THIS COUNTRY CAN’T SURVIVE ANOTHER FOUR YEARS OF REPUBLICAN RULE.
That is a fact, pure and simple.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:09 amlefttown: it’s my responsibility as a citizen to vote for the candidate who most conforms to my ideals and beliefs.
regardless of whether they can acquire the office and authority that will allow those ideals and beliefs to take on a practical and applicable form?
July 10th, 2008 at 11:09 amIt’s not all about one persons beliefs and ideals, it’s about shared beliefs and ideals. You”e talking about a responsibility to your ego, not a communal responsibility.
DvlsAdvocat Says:
No matter what stumbles Obama makes on the trail,
Voting for a complete gutting of the 4th amendment is way beyond a stumble. It lands him in the column of “how the fcuk is he different from the repukes”, in my humble opinion. I am livid.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:09 amrepublicans hate facts
Wow, you are really, REALLY, over the top. If thats working for you, fine, but the tone of your comments makes you sound like an embittered, hysterical, Clintonite, ready to go on a crying jag because people aren’t agreeing with you.
Now, you reply with SHOUTED insults and **cussing**, because that’s the sure path to making your point…..
Obama ‘08
July 10th, 2008 at 11:11 amRHF, I was an Edwards supporter FYI and obviously both he and Kucinich would be better candidates than Hillary or Obama so get off your high horse.
It is obvious that Hillary plans to storm the convention and pitch a last ditch effort to steal delegate and the nomination. And that is another way of handing the presidency to McCain.
If you’re not getting paid to promote this poor Hillary crap you have some serious issues and should get medicated. Because Hillary gave away the late support of many of us by using Rovian tactics in her campaign. She has nobody to blame and neither do you but herself and her advisers.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:13 am#88 Exit Stage Left Says:
Freedom Rebel Says:
The ACLU has been the Guardians of Liberty, they help defend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. What Bush and The Senate did was dishonor this great nation and what it stands for.
How about we let the ACLU and the America haters in congress change places. The congresswimps might learn something about the constitution.
Good morning Freb :)
I agree they might actually learn something about constitutional law and the powers granted to Congress, Gee what a concept!! I’m all for it. LOL If we could only make it happen.
Glad to see you Exit Stage Left:)
July 10th, 2008 at 11:14 amrhf this thread is not about you…flagged
July 10th, 2008 at 11:15 amRHF = BARTLEBEE
July 10th, 2008 at 11:18 amrepublicans hate facts Says:
f**k off loser.
Oh I see now, thanks for using your sound argument to help me see the light.
Hillary-Rove ‘08!!
July 10th, 2008 at 11:20 amkaty Says:
i see the anti-bama-bots are here, planting the seeds of discontent…… but some people just don’t get it…
they prefer to whine.
I don’t often disagree with what you post, but this seems a little over the top to me. If I may say so, your post sounds a little republican-esque: if you disagree with me, you’re nothing more than a discontented whiner.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:21 amIsn’t this supposed to be a forum for discussion of ideas, not just your ideas?
Just sayin’……
Sorry for the late response, Freb!
I’m not surprised at all that you devote yourself to human causes. I’m sure those whom you work with are very appreciative of your service. I think your ability to deal with large amounts of information at once is a great testiment to your curiosity and your tolerance.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:24 amWe’ve got racial issues to overcome in America. A lot of white racism and conversely an industry of black race baiting.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=pa1oM8-1LfM
Obama challenges this ugly status quo. On all fronts.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:27 amrepublicans hate facts but they do have their own whiny brat ironically named ‘republicans hate facts’ to vouch for them on TP’s threads
July 10th, 2008 at 11:20 am Recommend (FUBAR) | Report Abuse
July 10th, 2008 at 11:27 amFreedom Rebel Says:
Good Morning Exit Stage Left :) Are we cranky this morning?
Damn right I am, and with good reason.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:28 amGive it a rest jabberjaw we all know you’re not a Nader supporter. You’re RNC through and through. Do you think we don’t remember all your posts before you got your “push Nader” orders. At least have the brains to change your name when you’re trying to pull something like this off.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:29 amFreedom Rebel Says:
As much as I am angry like you and many others; to me it is a matter of McCain and a 100 year war. I can’t be a party to that innocent killing of Iraqis or the loss of one my soldier on my conscience. That is one of the few driving motivations for me to vote for Obama. He will make sure we get out, most likely in less than 2 years.
I am no longer confident he will honor that pledge either :(
July 10th, 2008 at 11:31 amGee how would RHF know what Bart thinks of me unless they were the same person, oh wait …
July 10th, 2008 at 11:33 amCVS called, Chucky RHF. Your meds are ready for pickup.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:33 amyea, the clintonistas are nothing if not tenatious, relentless…
they’re trolling all over the place, whining about her debt, whining about how she’s not getting enough donations from obama supporters, whining about all kinds of “unfairness”…
they’ve upped the calls to left radio, demanding (demanding!) respect and “due admiration”, wanting to make sure her name is read into the rolls at the convention… when has that ever happened? the LOSER gets a roll call???
yes, it’s gonna be an interesting convention…
July 10th, 2008 at 11:35 am“recreate 68″??? naaah… there’ll be nothing like it… ever…
Good Morning poster’s, who ever you are or want to vote for…After yesterday I still have a headache like I went on a seven hundred dollar drunk….Do as you choose, as I will do..
.Sadly this entire thread point’s to why we can’t come together well enough to pick another better suited candidate than the one who betrayed us yesterday..Have read all your post’s and one thought came to mind…Perhap’s you are all wrong in your opinion of why Obama voted the way he did…You skirted close to the reason’s but not on target..
I believe Obama has and was intending to take a right turn on many issues once he secured the nomination….I also believe we are seeing a definate arrogance, post presidential…Now he has the nomination he can and will do what ever the hell he want’s..It is apparent to me he planned to vote the way he did from the git go…Be prepared voter’s and poster’s….Oh, and as any old timer would say “keep your powder dry”……Blessings
July 10th, 2008 at 11:38 amSo we can assume that you are just fine with mccain for president.
Exit, things are not always black and white. We teach our children fairness although the world is often not fair.
the republicans have beaten us for too long now and they have done it by unifying even if they don’t fully agree with the candidate. We must do the same if we are to have any hope.
The divisions in the democratic party are how they are able to control the elections and we must not give them that power anymore.
To accuse Katy of being a republican is truly over the line. Please take a deep breath and think about what you are saying.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:41 amAll I know is that nowadays it seems like the only real choices for representation (as in someone who could actually win) are center-right or far-right. How did this happen?!
Democrats mostly seem to think that they can only win by catering to the “center” – a center that has been veering right for years! Meanwhile, the Republicans are catering to the furthest right-wing of their party! What’s up with that?
July 10th, 2008 at 11:43 amAnd I certainly don’t appreciate being shouted down for expressing disappointment over the direction that Obama and the Democratic party seem to taking. Sure we need party unity but are we supposed to be fake? Are we supposed to profess enthusiasm over a candidate that doesn’t seem to care what my concerns are?
Sure, most of us will end up voting for Obama. But the idea that we’re supposed to bite our tongue and let the throwaways from Clinton’s campaign steer Obama to the right just pisses me off!
July 10th, 2008 at 11:47 amHe’s pandered to the left during the primary and will pander to the right during the general. I still like Obama, but his lack of a track record is one area of concern.
It’s hard to be confident which positions he’ll support if/when he’s elected.
But, he is running a smart campaign.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:47 amIs RHF really Terry McAuliffe? I mean really, lay off the coke, you’re going to have a heart attack. The rabid, mouth foaming rants are quite unbecoming. Get over yourself. If you are in fact a true Progressive and support the Democratic Party you should choke down that lump of humble pie that’s been stuck in the back of your throat since Clinton lost her bid, climb down from that high horse and do what you can to support the nominee. If not, please have your physician up your meds…they’re obviously not doing the job you nutty flake.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:51 amExit Stage Left Says:
Freedom Rebel Says:
Good Morning Exit Stage Left :) Are we cranky this morning?
Damn right I am, and with good reason.
I understand completely..
July 10th, 2008 at 11:53 amhe said “republican-esque”, fred, and “a little” at that…
whatever… i don’t allow annonymous posters to get to me…
i do appreciate your concern though…
July 10th, 2008 at 11:58 amA Patriot Acting Says:
Is RHF really Terry McAuliffe?
AH HAHAHAHAHA!!! aaaaahhh…
that’s it! oh, that’s rich… and perfect…
July 10th, 2008 at 12:01 pm5th Estate Says:
I disagree. There are plenty of house races with progressive challengers not just to GOP seat but Blue-Dog Dems too ( assuming that these candidates aren’t bullshitting as well). It’s not much but its all we’ve got, outside of open revolt.
I’m ready for the open revolt!
July 10th, 2008 at 12:03 pmFred Says:
To accuse Katy of being a republican is truly over the line. Please take a deep breath and think about what you are saying.
YOU might wanna take a breath and re-read what I said. I didn’t accuse her of anything. I merely stated her post sounded republican-esque. Big difference.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:04 pmmary. If Obama doesn’t steer to the right a little, you’ll more likely end up with a McCain presidency.
He’s has the most liberal voting record in the senate.
Like it or not, without a few steps to the right, it’ll be hard for him to win.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:07 pmI’m as mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore!
I’m ready for armed revolt.
the revolution has come,
July 10th, 2008 at 12:08 pmtime to pick up the gun.
This thread is rich today. There seems to be little tolerance of opposing views from fellow progressives. I will NOT be an apologist for Obama’s total capitulation/cave-in to what asswipe bush wanted all along. As I’ve stated earlier, I will need to be won over, again, in order to get off my ass to cast a vote for Obama. I will NOT vote for a third-party candidate, or McCorpse. I have contributed numerous times to Obama’s campaign. I can no longer contribute to anyone willing to sell-out to the repukes and the telecoms for political expediency.
Sincerely,
July 10th, 2008 at 12:11 pmAnonymous Poster :)~
Bilbo and Shayne – thanks for expressing what I feel, because now I don’t have to.
And RHF…?
I used to read your posts with interest and even laughter, but now, my God, you’re worse than the Republican trolls! Why don’t you dial it back about 8 notches and have a little respect for the rest of us, eh? We’re supposed to be on the same side, aren’t we? All the hysterics and abuse is simply going to get you flagged and banned.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:11 pmbackup Says:
“Like it or not, without a few steps to the right, it’ll be hard for him to win.”
It’s not a matter between right and left. It’s a matter of right and wrong.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:12 pmExit Stage Left Says:
Freedom Rebel Says:
As much as I am angry like you and many others; to me it is a matter of McCain and a 100 year war. I can’t be a party to that innocent killing of Iraqis or the loss of one my soldier on my conscience. That is one of the few driving motivations for me to vote for Obama. He will make sure we get out, most likely in less than 2 years.
I am no longer confident he will honor that pledge either :(
I know he has hurt his credibility, no doubt. But, he also knows we can’t afford this war. If he has any hope in fixing the economy that has to be a guiding factor. We can’t be mortagaged to the hilt with China. Which Bush has done.
I am not sending him money because of what he did. Also, he knows how many Americans feel about this illegal war. I believe he will honor his pledge on that partical issue since the Iraqi’s have been so vocal about us being there also. I know, call me optimistic. I have already made a major sacrifice because I wanted Kucinich to begin with, so for me this is very difficult.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:12 pmFred Says:
So we can assume that you are just fine with mccain for president.
Since you used “we” I will respond to everyone your post represents: No, you cannot assume that. Please don’t put words in my mouth because we are not in total agreement.
July 10th, 2008 at 12:15 pm#152.Uncle Ho, I’m with you and I have 2 gun’s one for each hand….Blessings
July 10th, 2008 at 12:16 pmIt’s safe to say that the only “idiot” here is rhf, based on her hysterical posts.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and your’s is full of “whine”, which makes you look like a total fcuking moron.
Which you are apparently quite proud of!
July 10th, 2008 at 12:16 pmAfter yesterday it is apparent Obama is not liberal….Not even close…He now can be put in a seperate catagory all together, centerest right winger…Do anything to get the vote even if it mean’s joining the reich winger’s and dismanteling the constitution…
Ron Paul make knock out some of mcinsane’s and any one coming down the pike that is truly libral will mess up Obama.Seem’s to me we have a 4 horse race no matter what the progressive’s think…
Instead of in fighting on the net maybe everyone should get out there and do something useful for our country….Localy you can get real representative’s voted in..Nationaly, vote you concious…I’m for the constitution, do as you choose..Blessings
July 10th, 2008 at 12:49 pmI think everyone has been very tolerant of your views. I just think you are playing the game the right wing wants you to play…..
July 10th, 2008 at 1:28 pmFred Says:
I think everyone has been very tolerant of your views. I just think you are playing the game the right wing wants you to play…
How magnanimous of you to speak for the entire forum. I’m sure all here appreciated your doing so. If, as you (while speaking for everyone) claim, demanding Obama show me he is worthy of my vote is playing the reich wing’s game, so be it. However, I think you’re being ridiculous. Even Dems can be sheeple. Toe the party line, even when the constitution is being dismantled? How is that different than what the reich wing wants? If you want to find someone playing the game the way the repukes want it played, you need not look further than your own mirror.
July 10th, 2008 at 1:36 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
On yesterday’s vote, along with the previous House vote, to immunize law breakers that were following unconstitutional orders…
… Does this mean that Richard M. Nixon was correct and that when a president orders it, that means it’s NOT illegal?
… Does this mean that Watergate was a waste of time?
… How about the impeachment proceeding that began during Nixon… ill conceived?
.
July 10th, 2008 at 1:38 pm.
LOL everybody, backup believes in “BUMPER STICKER SLOGANS”
.
July 10th, 2008 at 1:42 pmBumper sticker slogans? You mean like this one?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×3585665
As Joe Cantwell might say,
Good
July 10th, 2008 at 1:48 pmLuck
The Right to Remain Silent
July 10th, 2008 at 1:49 pmhttp://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
July 10th, 2008 at 1:51 pmi’ve heard it before, and edschultz repeated it again today -
if all of hillary’s “19 million voters” would send her one dollar [well, better make it 2, since a LOT of those voters were dittoheads], then her debt would be cleared and she wouldn’t have to whine about being treated unfairly and blackmailing the obama campaign…
paraphrasing, of course, except for [ ] …
July 10th, 2008 at 2:20 pmThis is disgraceful – Obama returned to the senate, to vote FOR the abolition of the Fourth Amendment; and John McCain didn’t – yet we have to vote for Obama or face having more Scalias Roberts’s & Alitos on the Supreme Court. Sometimes it really does feel that all is lost….
July 10th, 2008 at 2:57 pmlawr1999 Says:
Backup:
Let’s put this ranking in it’s proper context: National Journal used 99 Senate votes in 2007 as the basis for its rankings, and because he was on the presidential campaign trail, Obama missed a third of those votes. (According to the magazine, Obama voted the liberal way 65 out of 66 votes.
While Obama ranks as the magazine’s most liberal senator of 2007, his ranking was 16th in 2005 and 10th in 2006.
As for McCain, the magazine says that he didn’t vote frequently enough in 2007 to get an overall rating. Per National Journal, “He missed more than half of the votes in both the economic and foreign-policy categories.
So backup is presenting half-baked propaganda, again. Color me shocked!
July 10th, 2008 at 3:45 pmTalk about putting words in someones mouth…..you’re a champ.
Just a note: If all dems had towed the party line in 2000 we would have had Al Gore for president the last 8 years. Exactly how is that playing the the game the way the republicans want it.
got mirror.
July 10th, 2008 at 5:10 pmI’m tired of playing tidleywinks with you guys. This is not the first time you have turned your back on our democrats when they needed our support….who do you trust?
You bailed on Jimmy Carter and let the republicans villify him….crickets…
You bailed on Hillary when she tried to get health care for us.
You bailed on Bill Clinton when they impeached him.
You bailed on Al Gore in 2000
Why am I not surprised that you bailing again.
You guys are the problem…..furthermore you offer nothing as a solution.
July 10th, 2008 at 5:14 pmI’ll play, vote for any one but these two…Check out my post on the feingold thread.Blessings
July 10th, 2008 at 6:16 pmWitch, I think I know your heart and I understand and respect your opinion. I posted a followup on the feingold thread too.
Peace.
July 10th, 2008 at 6:38 pmFred Says:
I’m tired of playing tidleywinks with you guys. This is not the first time you have turned your back on our democrats when they needed our support….who do you trust?
You bailed on Jimmy Carter and let the republicans villify him….crickets…
You bailed on Hillary when she tried to get health care for us.
You bailed on Bill Clinton when they impeached him.
You bailed on Al Gore in 2000
Why am I not surprised that you bailing again.
You guys are the problem…..furthermore you offer nothing as a solution.
Hey moron….now you have access to voting records? You have officially proven yourself not worthy of anything but being ignored. Why don’t you go back from wherever it is you came from.
July 10th, 2008 at 7:01 pmExit Stage Left Says:
hey moron……got a real solution….you know, one that might work? You guys act like the easter bunny will deliver you a perfect candidate. You have offered no candidate better than Obama. Who do you suggest?
July 11th, 2008 at 8:51 am