ThinkFast: July 15, 2008
ThinkFast: July 15, 2008
Lawyers for Canadian detainee Omar Khadr have “released excerpts of videotaped interrogations” today, “providing a first-ever glimpse into the secretive world of questioning enemy combatants” at Guantanamo Bay. In the 10-minute video, Khadr is often weeping, “pulling at his hair,” chanting “Help Me,” and even tells agents that he was tortured while being held at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan.
The Bush administration is seeking to require “all recipients of aid under federal health programs to certify that they will not refuse to hire nurses and other providers who object to abortion and even certain types of birth control.” The proposed rule would force hospitals, clinics and medical schools to sign “written certifications” as a prerequisite to getting federal funds.
Taliban insurgents who attacked a remote American-run outpost near the Pakistan border on Sunday outnumbered allied forces almost three to one and “some breached the NATO compound in a coordinated assault that took the defenders by surprise.” The attackers were eventually “driven back in a pitched four-hour battle.”
A new Washington Post/ABC News poll finds “the country split down the middle between those backing Sen. Barack Obama’s 16-month timeline for withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq [50 percent] and those agreeing with Sen. John McCain’s position that events, not timetables, should dictate when forces come home [49 percent].” Sixty-three percent “somewhat” or “strongly” felt the war was “not worth fighting.”
On the trail today: Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) will deliver a major policy address on Iraq and national security at the International Trade Center in DC. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) will attend a townhall in Albuquerque and a fundraiser in St. Louis.
The euro has jumped “to a new all-time high versus the dollar, surging as high as $1.6036, according to FactSet, as the greenback saw a broad decline against major currencies on intensifying credit worries.”
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) said “that he would not allow a vote on an amendment giving states new authority to seek oil off their coasts” when he brings an energy bill to the floor later this month. “We want oil and gas companies to drill on the leases they’ve been given,” Reid said.
The Bush administration’s misguided drive to extract Colorado’s oil shale “carries none of the Western wisdom acquired over the past century,” warns Sen. Ken Salazar (D-CO), in a Washington Post op-ed today. Oil shale development would require massive amounts of scare Colorado water, and “energy companies are still years away” from knowing whether it can cost-effectively produce oil on a commercial scale.
“House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles B. Rangel is soliciting donations from corporations with business interests before his panel, hoping to raise $30 million for a new academic center that will house his papers when he retires.”
The “staff director for the House ethics committee has reportedly resigned,” leaving the committee “somewhat paralyzed.” As a result, “both the House and Senate ethics committees may be operating without a permanent staff director in the runup to the national political conventions,” the Hill Reports.
And finally: In an NBC interview on Friday, basketball star Charles Barkley curiously told NBC, “My game is like a blog.” The blog Deadspin, which interviewed Barkley the day earlier, caught up with him and asked him what he meant by the phrase. Barkley replied, “When I talked with you on Thursday, and you said your were blogging my rounds, I didn’t know what that was. What’s a ‘blog?’ … So when they asked me on television how to describe my golf game, I told them ‘My game is like a blog.’ Because I don’t know what a blog is, but it don’t sound good.”
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Rove defends defiance of congressional subpoena
Former White House adviser Karl Rove on Monday defended his defiance of a congressional subpoena, saying he’s offered lawmakers other ways to question him about allegations of political pressure at the Justice Department.
In five letters to the House Judiciary Committee, “my lawyer has offered for me to go up to visit with members of Congress, visit with the staff or respond to written questions without foreclosing any future action by Congress,” Rove said. Rove, now a Fox News contributor, was responding to questions from Television Critics Association members during a Fox News panel session.
John Moody, Fox News executive vice president, was asked if it undercuts the channel’s credibility to have someone with Rove’s “political baggage” in its lineup. “No,” Moody replied, calling the former Bush adviser an authority on politics and adding that the current difference of opinion with Congress is between Rove and lawmakers.
But when a reporter tried to press the point with Moody, Rove jumped in to dispute characterization of the dispute as personal. “It’s not between me and Congress. I’ve not asserted any personal privilege. This is between the White House and Congress,” Rove said. The issue centers on “the ability of the president to receive advice from senior advisers and for those senior advisers not to be at the beck-and-call of Congress for testimony,” Rove said.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Karl_Rove_Denies_Political_Ties_Taint_0715.html
Now it’s up to Nancy Pelosi to decide if Rove will be held in contempt. If she has any aspirations left of getting re-elected she will pursue contempt charges. Rove’s arrogance about how he will visit with members of Congress acts like they are inviting him to a tea party instead of responding to a subpoena. Pelosi & Conyers better slam home the reality that Rove is at the beck-and-call of Congress.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:01 am‘Keep up the fight,’ Top AP editor once wrote Rove
In its investigation of the misleading accounts that initially surrounded Pat Tillman’s death and Jessica Lynch’s rescue the House Oversight Committee on Monday shed some light on the White House’s press-management apparatus and the chummy relationship between Karl Rove and AP scribe Ron Fournier.
In the day’s after Tillman’s death, on April 22, 2004, the committee examined e-mails from the White House’s communications team, including some exchanges with reporters.
Commentators and reporters contacted the White House to offer advice. For example, Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan e-mailed the White House’s Director of Strategic Initiatives, Peter Wehner, recommending that he “find out what faith Tillman practiced and have the president go by that church and light a candle or say a prayer.” Karl Rove exchanged e-mails about Pat Tillman with Associated Press reporter Ron Fournier, under the subject line “H-E-R-O.” In response to Mr. Fournier’s e-mail, Mr. Rove asked, “How does our country continue to produce men and women like this,” to which Mr. Fournier replied, “The Lord creates men and women like this all over the world. But only the great and free countries allow them to flourish. Keep up the fight.”
The revelation of Fournier’s casual e-mails with Rove comes the same day that Politico’s Michael Calderone has outlined changes Fournier is introducing as AP’s Washington bureau chief with a new model he calls “accountability journalism.” He initially promoted the idea in an essay in the AP’s internal newsletter.
After briefly leaving daily journalism to pursue a Web startup and teach at Harvard, Fournier returned to the Associated Press earlier this year, where he is now its acting bureau chief.
His plan is for AP reporters to call out public officials when they break promises or fail to provide for the people who elected them. Examples include a piece accusing Barack Obama of choosing “winning over his word,” and a Fournier dispatch about Hurricane Katrina that excoriated the Bush administration. It began: “The Iraqi insurgency is in its last throes. The economy is booming. Anybody who leaks a CIA agent’s identity will be fired. Add another piece of White House rhetoric that doesn’t match the public’s view of reality: Help is on the way, Gulf Coast.”
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Keep_up_fight_Top_AP_editor_0714.html
Sandy Johnson former head of The Associated Press’s Washington bureau says “she regards Fournier as a threat to one of the most influential institutions in American journalism.” The shifting of the AP from fact based to opinion biased reporting means we have truly lost most of our media sources now. I can never look at an AP story in the same way ever again without verifying the facts from British sources now. An extremely sad day for American journalism and another Mission Accomplished by the Bush Administration.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:04 amShame on Rangel. It’s just as wrong for Dems to pull this kind of shit as it is for Rethugs.
Vote Green.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:07 amWell, Charles Barkley didn’t get to be famous for his brain power. Good thing.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:07 amSpeaking to the National Council of La Raza in San Diego, McCain made plain his pro-free trade position: “I reject the false virtues of economic isolationism.”
Meaning that McCain embraces the true sins of uneconomic freetradeitisezationism—it is a black-and-white world, after all.
“Any confident, competent country and its government should embrace competition,” he added.
Take the new Air Force Tanker contract for example. It wasn’t about delivering the best plane for the task without cheating; it was a competition to get the specifications re-written so as to eliminate the competition.
“Lowering barriers to trade creates more and better jobs, and higher wages. It makes goods more affordable for low- and middle-income consumers.”
Take the present US economy, for example. Upper management types are making higher wages, ‘retired’ politicians and political hacks are clearly getting more and better jobs than before whilst low and middle-income consumers will be able to afford goods or services—but not both at the same time of course
“And for workers of a certain age who have lost a job that won’t come back; if they move rapidly to a new job we’ll help make up the difference in wages between their old job and the new one.”
In other words up to a dozen sprightly old people will compete for a single job with 2×4s in hand-to-hand combat and the difference between the winner’s old and new wages will be ‘made-up’—by repeating the claim that the difference is entirely psychological.
The slower unemployed “of a certain age” will of course be turned into a green oatmeal-like food substitute, or bio-fuel.
McCain didn’t make a third attempt to overhaul immigration laws until the government can “prove we have the resources to secure our borders and use them.”
Just like the government proved it had the resources to bring freedom, peace, security and prosperity to Iraq.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:13 amThe issue centers on “the ability of the president to receive advice from senior advisers and for those senior advisers not to be at the beck-and-call of Congress for testimony,” Rove said.
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It sounds more like the issue centers on the ability of the president to conspire to commit crimes and for those he conspires with not to be at the beck-and-call of Congress for testimony.
No one is above the law, Karl. Not even you.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:15 amCanadian detainee Omar Khadr’s military tribunal (trial) is set for October.
Just in time for November’s general election. Convenient.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:16 amI love Charles Barkley! Dude is a stand-up guy.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:17 am“John Moody, Fox News executive vice president, was asked if it undercuts the channel’s credibility to have someone with Rove’s “political baggage” in its lineup. “No,” Moody replied . . .”
If your credibility is already zero, it is impossible to have it undercut, so Moody was right, in a way.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:20 amThe Bush administration is seeking to require “all recipients of aid under federal health programs to certify that they will not refuse to hire nurses and other providers who object to abortion and even certain types of birth control.”
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I would imagine that most health organizations receiving federal aid currently don’t have an issue with hiring qualified people who object to abortion and/or birth control — as long as those subjects are irrelevant to their position.
No, it seems that what Bush wants to do is to ensure that people who object to abortion and/or birth control ARE put in positions where those subjects are paramount. Bush WANTS family planning counselors who will say, “just keep your legs crossed, honey.”
Six months, five days…
July 15th, 2008 at 9:20 amIn the 10-minute video, Khadr is often weeping, “pulling at his hair,” chanting “Help Me,” and even tells agents that he was tortured while being held at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan.
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I hope that if this footage ever makes it to YouTube, that citizens — even the gung-ho torture freaks — will ask themselves if they would find it acceptable if these techniques were administered to our own soldiers.
Yes, yes — you can say, “but those guys are beheading our people!” True — a few groups of extremists are doing just that, which is abominable. But how would you feel if the government of a sovereign state was doing that to us — not just the fringe loonies?
July 15th, 2008 at 9:25 amIt’s not only cost, it’s energy-effectiveness – i.e. the energy returned on energy invested. The best figure claimed, and this is just a claim, is about 3.5. When one admits that oil shale extraction cannot be done in situ, and Western U.S. shale cannot due to the aforementioned lack of water, that figure drops enormously.
It’s best to remember that the powers that be wants energy to be resource-based. That’s why you hear so much about nuclear, coal gasification, carbon sequestration, shale, etc. There ain’t nearly as much money to be made from renewables – solar, wave motion, wind, geothermal, etc. – cuz process can’t be cornered.
The greatest, most immediate impact comes from energy efficiency – about which you don’t hear squat from MSM, which gets a sizable portion of their revenue from the resource companies, cuz their ain’t no money in it.
Among the renewables, the most promising consistent source, barring some gene-spliced, gasoline-farting enzyme being produced, is geothermal, about which, again you hear squat. Deep-drilling techniques being tested at MIT, among others, will allow more geographical sites access to the heat beneath the earth’s crust, an energy source to last thousands of millennia. Look for the resource companies to soon lay ownership claims to the earth’s core and all effluvia therefrom.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:28 am[Rove] offered lawmakers other ways to question him…
Mr. Rove will only appear if the following conditions are met:
1) Alex Trebek to ask the questions
July 15th, 2008 at 9:32 am2) Questions to be selected by spinning the Wheel of Fortune
3) Answers will be given in mime, in the form of a question, or as Republican talking point.
Freedom Rebel Says:
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Rove defends defiance of congressional subpoena
Former White House adviser Karl Rove on Monday defended his defiance of a congressional subpoena, saying he’s offered lawmakers other ways to question him about allegations of political pressure at the Justice Department.
In five letters to the House Judiciary Committee, “my lawyer has offered for me to go up to visit with members of Congress, visit with the staff or respond to written questions without foreclosing any future action by Congress,” Rove said. Rove, now a Fox News contributor, was responding to questions from Television Critics Association members during a Fox News panel session.
Rove in Yalta
Karl Rove participated in a meeting at Yalta in the Crimea, at the place where Stalin, Churchill and FDR carved up the World in 1945. The Crimea is now part of Ukraine.
The weekend event, held at the Livadia Palace, was the 5th annual YES (Yalta European Strategy) conference. Mr. Rove was a panelist on a Saturday morning plenary session: Elections in Russia and the USA: impact on Ukraine and Europe. The panel, chaired by Richard Haas, President of the Council on Foreign Relations, also included veteran Democratic speechwriter Bob Shrum.
Mr. Rove is a fugitive from a House Judiciary subcommittee subpoena, which summoned him to testify at a hearing on political interference at the Department of Justice, and is expected to be held in Contempt of Congress. For some unknown reason, Mr. Rove’s lawyer did not inform the House committee staffers that he was scheduled to participate in the YES conference in Ukraine.
http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/rove-in-yalta/
**There are no extradition treaties with the Ukraine. Wonder how long it will take him to show up in the good ol’ US of A?
July 15th, 2008 at 9:33 amFreedom Rebel Says
July 15th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Rove’s arrogance about how he will visit with members of Congress acts like they are inviting him to a tea party instead of responding to a subpoena.
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I don’t get it. Rove is doing everything possible to avoid being put under oath. Why? It’s fairly obvious from his efforts that he has a lot to hide. But why is he worried? It’s not like he’s lied before. Why would being under oath bother him? If for some reason he gets caught in a lie and then gets charged with perjury, Bushney will pardon him.
Rove and that whole unsavory band of crooks has operated with arrogance and swagger, while thumbing their nose with disdain at Congress and the public, because they have always known they can’t be touched. Now, Karl is revealing that he has something to fear from being put under oath. Holes in his safety net, maybe?
July 15th, 2008 at 9:38 amRe:Obama
from Information Clearing House (Mike Whitney):
Still think the “peace candidate” does not have the warmongering bone fides to do the empire’s dirty work?
Think again.
Many of us who have criticized Obama are being dismissed as cynics, but that’s nonsense. The truth is that the Obama supporters have projected their own values onto their candidate and are trying to make him out to be something that he is not. They put words in his mouth so they can continue to hold on to the crazy notion that the system really isn’t broken and that it can be fixed by simply pulling a lever on election day. This is just the lazy-man’s way of ignoring the real work that needs to be done to restore American democracy; the organizing of groups and networks, the building of labor unions and working coalitions, the focussed determination to root-out corruption and entrenched corporate power. The system has to be rebuilt from the bottom-up not the top-down. It’ll take a revolution in thinking and lots of hard work. There’s no quick fix. Freedom isn’t free anymore; deal with it. Voting for Obama and keeping one’s fingers crossed, is not a sign of hope. It’s a sign of self-delusion.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:38 amcavjam Says:
There ain’t nearly as much money to be made from renewables – solar, wave motion, wind, geothermal, etc. – cuz process can’t be cornered.
Indeed.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:46 amA house or building equipped with solar panels, wind turbine and a heat-pump (I think that’s what it’s called, kind of a geo-thermal critter) would get its power from freely available sources, NOT industry-controlled sources.
Houses and buildings so-equipped would realize massive savings whilst the energy companies would realize a massive drop in demand.
Power generation would become highly distributed and localized which is not what the energy companies would want ( or a lot of politicians for that matter).
The Bush administration is seeking to require “all recipients of aid under federal health programs to certify that they will not refuse to hire nurses and other providers who object to abortion and even certain types of birth control.” The proposed rule would force hospitals, clinics and medical schools to sign “written certifications” as a prerequisite to getting federal funds.
You know, I thought that Republicans were against government intrusion into hiring practices.
Did I just imagine that?
July 15th, 2008 at 9:47 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
Freedom Rebel Says
July 15th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Rove’s arrogance about how he will visit with members of Congress acts like they are inviting him to a tea party instead of responding to a subpoena.
_____________________________________________________________
I don’t get it. Rove is doing everything possible to avoid being put under oath. Why? It’s fairly obvious from his efforts that he has a lot to hide. But why is he worried? It’s not like he’s lied before. Why would being under oath bother him? If for some reason he gets caught in a lie and then gets charged with perjury, Bushney will pardon him.
Rove and that whole unsavory band of crooks has operated with arrogance and swagger, while thumbing their nose with disdain at Congress and the public, because they have always known they can’t be touched. Now, Karl is revealing that he has something to fear from being put under oath. Holes in his safety net, maybe?
Good Morning :) That is what has been bothering me also, Missmolly. We know that Bush probably has a pardon for him. I agree with you there has to be a problem somewhere that even a pardon won’t get him out of. Or the other possibility is maybe incriminating evidence or direct orders that others (Bush & Cheney) don’t want under public scrutiny.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:51 amYou know how to get a Republican off your porch after November?
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July 15th, 2008 at 9:52 am.
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Pay him for the pizza!
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Thank you, I’ll be here all night! Please tip the bartenders!
misshusseinmolly Says:
Well, Charles Barkley didn’t get to be famous for his brain power. Good thing.
Good morning misshesseinmolly.
Actually, having seen his golf game, Charles’ comment is spot on. He doesn’t know what a blog is just like he doesn’t know what a good swing is. He is the worst golfer I’ve ever seen. But he knows this and couldn’t give a free throw what people think of it. He has a great sense of humour and knows he’s a celebrity because of sport. I have no idea if he is political – he may well be a republican.
If you haven’t seen him swing a club, you will be amazed that an ‘athlete’ could be that bad!
July 15th, 2008 at 9:57 amConyers may hold hearings, but plans no action on impeachment
All Rep. Dennis Kucinich wants is a chance to present his case. The Ohio Democrat has made a crusade of his efforts to impeach George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, only to be ignored and ridiculed by many of his fellow lawmakers.
While House Speaker Nancy Pelosi still sees the prospect of actually booting the president from office as “off the table,” discussing the idea now at least seems OK.
Sometime before its August recess, the House Judiciary Committee likely will hold a hearing to consider Kucinich’s impeachment appeal, CQ Politics reports:
Chairman John Conyers Jr. , D-Mich., said Judiciary will take a broad look at the behavior of the Bush administration, and Kucinich can lay out his arguments as part of that as-yet unscheduled hearing.
Kucinich, D-Ohio, intends to formally offer a resolution on Tuesday that accuses Bush of lying to Congress in order to get approval to invade Iraq.
Conyers said he wants a public discussion of the issues being raised by Kucinich, but does not plan to take any action on the resolution. “We’re not doing impeachment, but he can talk about it,” the chairman said.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Conyers_may_hold_hearings_but_plans_0715.html
**The dems are as complicit as the repukes. Impeach them all — or vote them out of office. It’s all empty promises for an election year. They can’t wait to get their hands on all these illegal activities because, of course, their intentions are so much “better” than the neocons. “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
July 15th, 2008 at 10:03 amVoting for Obama and keeping one’s fingers crossed, is not a sign of hope. It’s a sign of self-delusion.
and voting for mckinney ISN’T???
AH HAHAHAHAHA! HOOoooo boy!
you folks are a hoot… or would be if you weren’t so DELUSIONAL.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:03 amA couple years ago Barkley suggested he might run for governor of Alabama someday, as a Republican. (He is rich, after all.)
Then a while later he declared that he was no longer a Republican because the Republican Party had “lost their minds”. Or something like that.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:04 am#15 And the beat goes on Says:
**There are no extradition treaties with the Ukraine. Wonder how long it will take him to show up in the good ol’ US of A?
Good Morning and the beat goes on :)
That would make my day if Rove was put on the Interpol most wanted list.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:05 am“We want oil and gas companies to drill on the leases they’ve been given,” Reid said.
I heard on Air America radio last night that the oil companies have numerous offshore leases that they are not drilling, in addition to the leases on property in the US.
I agree with Reid, we must force the oil companies to drill where they already have leases before we give them more.
I had to laugh when a Republican was quoted as calling Reid “obstructionist” and accused him of trying to control congress by not allowing the bill to come to the floor. I guess he forgot all the times that the Republican lead congress did the same to the Democrats. They did that for 6 years, not allowing any Democratic sponsored bill to even come to the floor much less being voted on. Turn abouts fair play and payback is a b|tch.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:10 amUncle Ho Says:
Vote Green.
Throw your vote away and consign this country to another 4 years of Republican hell. I don’t think we could survive it.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:13 amYou said it yourself. There is no quick fix. It won’t happen between now and November. So what do we do in the meantime to start moving us in the right direction? Vote against Obama? That’s your leadership?
If you vote for anyone but the democrat this cycle then you are voting for mccain.
Sorry but I can’t just let you make such statements without offering a differnt view.
what have we missed: 100 banks expected to close within the next year. Want more of that? Make sure mccain gets elected.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:13 amThe “staff director for the House ethics committee has reportedly resigned,” leaving the committee “somewhat paralyzed.” As a result, “both the House and Senate ethics committees may be operating without a permanent staff director in the runup to the national political conventions,” the Hill Reports.
Since when has this congress worried about ethics issues this year? I think the committee has been more than “somewhat paralyzed” for a very long time. Don’t feign a false appearance of conscious now, it’s far too late.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:17 amBilbo Says:
“I heard on Air America radio last night that the oil companies have numerous offshore leases that they are not drilling, in addition to the leases on property in the US.”
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Because it’s all one big land grab.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:20 amjabberjaw Says:
kay, you guys who are hammering Obama and want to vote 3rd should really follow guys like jj. They are using you.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:20 amWaiting for Chimpy’s press conference at any moment (10:20 AM EDT).
Barack to give major speech at 10:45 EDT.
McSame’s response to Obama at Noon EDT.
‘Tis a shame we can’t harness hot air from politicians for useful purposes.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:21 amA vote for McKinney/Nader = McCain presidency.
Vote third party. Because things could always suck more.
(I think I found your guys’ new slogan.)
July 15th, 2008 at 10:22 amjabberjaw Says:
Obama is expected to move more towards the middle and soften his stance on Iraq today, much like he softened his stance on FISA.
And you know this how? Did you get an advanced copy of his speech. Do you really think that just because you say something it is true? If you do, then you need some serious psychiatric help.
Obama did not “soften his stance” on FISA, he did a complete turn around. But thus far, that is the only move to the right he has made. He has always been more of a middle of the road kind of guy and if anyone thought different, they weren’t paying attention.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:23 amI hate McCain.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:23 amI am not voting for Obama.
Period.
Because of Ralph Nader we drive safer cars, eat healthier food, breath better air, drink cleaner water, and work in safer environments.
it’s true… 30 years ago he was a busy, very important man…
too bad he quit those challenges and only comes around every 4 years to be a spoiler… too bad he hasn’t spent his off time shoring up a legitimate 3rd, 4th party… just a spoiler…
too bad…
July 15th, 2008 at 10:23 amKay Says:
“I hate McCain.
I am not voting for Obama.”
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This makes no sense. Zero.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:25 amFrosty Cupcake Says:
Vote third party. Because things could always suck more.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:22 am
**snort**
You owe me a new keyboard!
July 15th, 2008 at 10:25 am“released excerpts of videotaped interrogations” ….
Need I say the obvious. These are the tapes which not only weren’t destroyed but also which the interrogators **ALLOWED** the defense to see.
I wonder what happened that we haven’t seen?
July 15th, 2008 at 10:25 amSo, my one vote for McKinney will tip the nation to:
Mc-I-cant-hold-my-hand-up
July 15th, 2008 at 10:26 am:D @ Zooey.
Thanks. And good morning!
July 15th, 2008 at 10:26 amKay,
You’re not the only one.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:27 amKay Says:
I hate McCain.
I am not voting for Obama.
Period.
Fine, then what are you going to say to your grandchildren after McCain is elected and this country is permanently destroyed? Are you going to tell them that you refused to vote for the only viable candidate for President who wouldn’t continue to destroy this country just because he is a little too conservative for you or whatever your complaint is?
I have no patience for people who think that their ego needs are more important than this country.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:27 amFrosty Cupcake Says:
Vote third party. Because things could always suck more.
excellent.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:27 amI love it. Obama being a constitutional scholar goes and guts the 4th Amendment.
Right.
That’s real leadership.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:27 amGood morning, Frosty Cupcake. Your moniker makes me crave sweets. Not sure why… :)
July 15th, 2008 at 10:28 am#Kay Says:
So, my one vote for McKinney will tip the nation to:
Mc-I-cant-hold-my-hand-up
If it was only you, then no it would not tip the election. Unfortunately it is not just you. There are a lot of selfish people in this world and you are one of them.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:28 amKay,
What do you think McCain will do to the Constitution?
Most politicians suck. When you find a perfect one, let us know. Right now, we need to get the Republicans out of power, because they are killing this country.
Truly, I wish my vote for Obama was a vote FOR Obama, and not a vote AGAINST McCain. But there you have it.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:30 amKay Says:
I love it. Obama being a constitutional scholar goes and guts the 4th Amendment.
Right.
That’s real leadership.
No it’s not and I hate that he did it. But I understand why he did it. It’s an unfortunate fact that if you want to be elected President in this country you have to play certain political games. But that one bad thing he did does not disqualify him in my book and he is still light years better than McSame.
Kay, are you going to continue along this vein until November, posting anti Obama shit every day and encouraging people to throw away their vote. As far as I am concerned you are no better than trolls like jj.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:31 am#10 Frosty Cupcake Says:
“John Moody, Fox News executive vice president, was asked if it undercuts the channel’s credibility to have someone with Rove’s “political baggage” in its lineup. “No,” Moody replied . . .”
If your credibility is already zero, it is impossible to have it undercut, so Moody was right, in a way.
Good Morning Frosty :)
I had to laugh, it is the first time Fox didn’t have to lie or manipulate the truth in their “fair & balanced” reporting practices. When you have Billo on staff also, it is hard to maintain any appearance of credibility.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:33 amKay Says:
So, my one vote for McKinney will tip the nation to:
[McCain]
———————————————————-
Look, it’s not like I’m unsympathetic to your feelings here, but yes your vote – or non-vote/stay-at-home-protest – combined with others like you *and* any vote suppression the GOP generates (yet again) could tip the election.
Furthermore, your constant imploring others to join you just serves McCain’s and the GOP’s purposes.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:33 amGood morning, Freedom Rebel. :)
July 15th, 2008 at 10:35 amSo, I guess you can tell your grandchildren that you voted for a Constitutional Scholar that Gutted the 4th Amendment and is a Suck-up to the Israeli Lobby.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:36 amBilbo; vote Green
I sure as hell ain’t voting for ANY Rethug at ANY level.
Dems are voting to gut the Constitution(see FISA vote last week), and impeachment is ‘off the table”. Ergo, although the Democrat party is clearly the lesser evil, it is still evil.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:37 amKay, you are headed down the RHF path towards irrelevancy. You make good posts at times but this fanatic refusal to see the McKinney McCain connection is annoying.
A vote for Nader/McKinney is a vote for the same shit we have seen for the last 8 years.
JJ is already irrelevant. Poorly disguised McCain pimp.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:38 am… concern trolls… dangerous…
troll + tool = trooll
…
OVERWHELMING DEMOCRATIC VOTER TURNOUT.
THEY CAN’T STEAL IT IF IT’S NOT CLOSE.
IT CAN’T BE CLOSE.
DUH.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:42 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
July 15th, 2008 at 9:25 am
have you even seen the video or are you comments based on assumptions about what is on the video?
July 15th, 2008 at 10:42 amLast night I was thinking — maybe this Obama move to the center is all show — just to get elected. And I thought — how shrewd in a way it is — if it’s true.
Maybe these policy shifts are just a ploy to “see tough on security/terrorism” — and once he’s elected he’ll return to his primary (more left) stances.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:43 am#49 Zooey
Your moniker makes me crave sweets. Not sure why… :)
Good Morning Zooey :)
In my case I know why. I’m addicted too sugar. LOL
July 15th, 2008 at 10:43 amThat is why my recipe file has 4 times the dessert cards as any other catagory.
Kay claims that her vote alone will not tip the scales. Yet she comes here every day and on any semi-related thread continues to knock Obama and convince others not to vote for him. Get real Kay. A President McCain will most definitely use the expanded powers that Bush has bestowed upon himselfto the further ruination of our Nation. A President Obama will work with a (hopefully) overwhelming Democratic Congress and Senate to FIX all the Constitutional trampling done by the current Administration. A candidate cannot be all things to all people and I try to be realistic in my expectations. This FISA vote was pure politics and I still have hope for our Fourth Ammendment under an Obama presidency. With McCain all bets are off.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:44 amActually, I found Kay irrelevant after she equated spousal abuse to our responses to her regarding McKinney.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:44 amConstructive criticism is NOT similar to abuse!
NEVER!
By the way, Kay is a he
July 15th, 2008 at 10:45 amKay Says:
Last night I was thinking — maybe this Obama move to the center is all show — just to get elected. And I thought — how shrewd in a way it is — if it’s true.
Maybe these policy shifts are just a ploy to “see tough on security/terrorism” — and once he’s elected he’ll return to his primary (more left) stances.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Bingo. He’s a politician. He needs to get elected — for all Americans, not just us.
Am I happy about some of the things Obama is doing? No.
Republicans can’t govern. They need to be gone, so let’s get them gone.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:47 amZooey and Rebel:
I love baking waaay more than cooking.
“my recipe file has 4 times the dessert cards as any other catagory”
Mine, too! Hence the name. Cupcake with lots of frosting.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:47 amKay Says:
By the way, Kay is a he
Since when?
July 15th, 2008 at 10:49 ami do believe that Barack Obama is running for the Office of the President of the United States…
not the Democratic party…
duh.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:50 amSince I was born. I never said I was a “she”
July 15th, 2008 at 10:51 amBecause of Ralph Nader we drive safer cars, eat healthier food, breath better air, drink cleaner water, and work in safer environments. Imagine what he could do as President!
July 15th, 2008 at 10:52 amNo, not true, isn’t the case, false.
DRxJ,
I’ve always find you relevant…
July 15th, 2008 at 10:53 amdim wit Says
July 15th, 2008 at 10:42 am
have you even seen the video or are you comments based on assumptions about what is on the video?
___________________________________________________________
I have not seen the video.
I’m not even making any assumptions about what is on the video, outside of what TP said in their item.
I am merely saying that if this video reaches the general public, I hope those who see it ask themselves if what they see would be acceptable if it was being done to our own people before they make judgments about it. I stand by this statement regardless of what the video shows — whether it shows waterboarding, flogging, or having a tea party.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:54 amUncle Ho Says:
Bilbo; vote Green
I sure as hell ain’t voting for ANY Rethug at ANY level.
Dems are voting to gut the Constitution(see FISA vote last week), and impeachment is ‘off the table”. Ergo, although the Democrat party is clearly the lesser evil, it is still evil.
I disagree. You might as well vote for McCain because if you throw away your vote by voting green, you and others like you are quite likely to throw the election to McCain. It will be on your conscience.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:55 amoops.
I’ve always found you relevant.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:55 amI sympathise with those here who feel that Obama is “leaning to the right” in his presidential bid. What nobody seems to remember is that Bill Clinton was quite the right leaning Democrat when he needed to be. Most modern Progressives and Liberals look back fondly on the Clinton Presidency and its profound impact on the prosperity of our Nation. To be honest, I consider Obama’s platform to be much closer to Bill Clinton’s than Hillary’s was.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:56 amnanlichi,
July 15th, 2008 at 10:58 am#58
what is RHF path?
#jabberjaw Says:
So much for being anti-corporate, anti-establishment, progressive. Bilbo has surrendered to the establishment.
No, I have not surrendered to the establishment. I am just pragmatic enough to recognize that sometimes I have to do something I would prefer not doing for the better good of this country. As Katy said, Obama is not running for President of the Democratic Party, he is running for President of the United States. And, at this point in time, he is the only candidate that holds a good chance of winning and helping this country recover from all the harm 8 years of Republican rule has done. I am disappointed in Obama’s vote on FISA, but it is not enough for me to throw away my vote. I love this country more than I love my own ego.
THIS COUNTRY CAN’T SURVIVE ANOTHER 4 YEARS OF REPUBLICAN RULE. That’s a fact.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:59 amKay-
July 15th, 2008 at 11:00 amI apologize for my gender assumption, good sir. No offense!
Katy,
Kay is right.
I, too, have serious concerns about Obama.
I have serious concerns that a Republican minority of just 40 Senators will continue to run this country through filibuster or threat of filibuster; and the Democrats will continue to roll over and play dead, as they have for the past several years.
I have concerns that our electoral system may be “played” by corporate interests, and that whomever we elect is beholden to puppetmasters.
Kay is right. The work necessary to overcome such manipulations of the public is difficult indeed. But as long as the masses are placated by a charismatic leader, that work will never see the light of day.
Is Obama the better choice of the two? Yes. But vote with both eyes wide open.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:00 amKay Says:
nanlichi,
#58
what is RHF path?
RHF went off the rails and became a troll in his fervent wish that Hillary would be our next President. Pretty much like what you are doing with your fervent wish that Obama NOT be the next President of the United States.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:01 amOk.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:01 amMaybe I will vote for Obama.
Kay,
I don’t mean to pile on, but with all due respect to your concerns, McKinney has the Capitol Hill police incident hanging over her. Even the Congressional Black Caucus isn’t rooting for her.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:01 amYou have a right to vote how ever you choose. But you’re badmouthing Obama just the way jabberjaw does. And it won’t take too many of you to hand the election to McCain.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:03 amDo you think Obama will choose Hillary and her 18M votes as Veep?
July 15th, 2008 at 11:03 amThe Bush administration is seeking to require “all recipients of aid under federal health programs to certify that they will not refuse to hire nurses and other providers who object to abortion and even certain types of birth control.” The proposed rule would force hospitals, clinics and medical schools to sign “written certifications” as a prerequisite to getting federal funds.
So now Bush wants to politicize healthcare. I guess nothing is sacred. Healthcare providers that accept federal money should provide all currently legal health services.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
July 15th, 2008 at 11:05 amI know there are Nader and McKinney fans here, and one of the great things about this country is that we get to vote for whom we want, which separates us from — oh, say — Zimbabwe.
I’d like to point out a couple of truths, though.
First, like it or not, our next president is going to be either McCain or Obama. No matter who else is on the ballot. No other candidate is going to get a single electoral vote, unless they are the recipient of a faithless elector. If you live in a state that is already heavily for one candidate or the other, and you suspect your vote won’t make that much difference, then do what your conscience dictates. I live in a battleground state, and I am going to do everything in my power (including my vote) to keep another Bush term from happening.
Second, in 2004, the Republicans worked hard for Nader. They realized that Nader would siphon votes from Kerry, and it was in their best interests to fuel his campaign any way they could. They did this by contributing money to his campaign and working to gather signatures to get him on the ballot in as many states as possible.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/07/09/MNGQQ7J31K1.DTL
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-08-07-nader-bush_x.htm
And now we have posters like jabberjaw here coming in daily to pound the drums for Nader. Is it so far-fetched to believe that the GOP would send their trolls out to try to sway as many voters from Obama to Nader as possible? I’m not accusing jabberjaw of anything — but he sure fits that profile. Just saying…
July 15th, 2008 at 11:06 am#48 Kay Says:
I love it. Obama being a constitutional scholar goes and guts the 4th Amendment.
Right.
That’s real leadership.
Good Morning Kay :)
You said it yourself “Obama being a constitutional scholar
guts the 4th Amendment”. Being a Constitutional Scholar he would know that the ACLU would never sit back quitely and let this happen. I agree with Bilbo, it was politics also.
The ink wasn’t even dry when the American Civil Liberties Union announced that it would mount a constitutional challenge to the new law, claiming that it violates the First and Fourth Amendments. The group also filed a motion with the secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, requesting that proceedings and rulings on the constitutionality of the FAA be made public.
Kay just giving you something to think about. Not everything is always crystal clear as far as motives are concerned. But, I consider Obama to be a very intelligent person that looks at all of his options and considers all the possible outcomes. He had to know the ACLU would jump on this.
I’m personally not happy about the vote. But, I don’t know all of his strategical strategies are either. So for right now, I’m seeing what his next move is.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:08 amjabberjaw Says:
You have to make sense and be able to back up your argument. You have failed at every turn. You made yourself irrelivant.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:08 amKay Says:
Last night I was thinking — maybe this Obama move to the center is all show — just to get elected. And I thought — how shrewd in a way it is — if it’s true.
Maybe these policy shifts are just a ploy to “see tough on security/terrorism” — and once he’s elected he’ll return to his primary (more left) stances.
That’s the first intelligent thing you have said in a while. Of course he is saying what he needs to say to get elected. All politicians do it. He has also said he will fix FISA when he is president. For that reason his FISA vote didn’t bother me. It did bother me, though, on telecom immunity because there is no way to put that toothpaste back in the tube. I know people say that we can go after the telecoms criminally, but I don’t believe it will be done.
Obama could redeem himself in my eyes if he would take a stand right now and announce that as President he will investigate and prosecute all the crimes committed by the Bush Administration. That would show me that he truly is for change in the way our government operates.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:09 amAs an FYI, the video is available. Watched it on BBC this morning and its on their website. Ironically enough, it more resembles a tea party than it is does waterboarding.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:09 amWhat profile do I fit under?
Ok. Don’t answer that.
I’m just the jerk progressive that comes here everyday that cares about his country:
July 15th, 2008 at 11:10 amI am livid about:
2 stolens elections
2 illegal preemptive wars
our State Sponsored Terrorism (see 9/11)
4,000+ men and women dying in 2 illegal Oil Wars
a crumbling infrastructure
a tanking economy
a Million+ dead Iraqis
the Millions of displaced Iraqis
Katrina and it’s continuing aftermath
Our disgraced Moral Standing in the World (secret prisons, prisoner abuse)
The Patriot Act
The Military Commissions Act
The Homegrown Terrorist Prevention Act
The FISA Amendment Act
HELL on earth unleashed in the Middle East
People losing their homes left and right
$4+ a gallon for gas
skyrocketing food prices
US Attorney Scandal
lowered FDA standards
A dumber society
Greater disparity between rich and poor
A Disgraceful Environmental Policy
A Complicit Corporate Controlled Media
Manipulating Science
Executive Power Grab thus eliminating checks and balances
Disdain for the Constitution and The Bill of Rights
This “Phony War On Terror
I agree wholeheartedly. As Kay was trying to point out, to affect real change it must be done with sustained, coordinated effort. For an excellent model, see how the “Christian Coalition” pulled it off, after all, their agenda now runs this nation, and it took them just 30 years to put it in place. Are “Progressives” willing to work so patiently, so steadfastly, for so long before seeing results?
(which begs the question – will this nation/planet even survive another 30 years?)
July 15th, 2008 at 11:10 amYou are a RNC flunky and a lying sack of fecal matter.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:11 am#misshusseinmolly Says
And now we have posters like jabberjaw here coming in daily to pound the drums for Nader. Is it so far-fetched to believe that the GOP would send their trolls out to try to sway as many voters from Obama to Nader as possible? I’m not accusing jabberjaw of anything — but he sure fits that profile. Just saying…
Bingo. I truly believe that most of the “Nader” posters here and on other political blogs are nothing more than an extension of Operation Chaos. I’ve known that about the jabber since it first showed up here. What concerns me, though, are people like Kay who have been consistently progressive and now, because of one vote, are fervently anti Obama and beating the drums of third party candidates. They are the ones that can truly do harm and affect the election.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:13 amKay Says:
Do you think Obama will choose Hillary and her 18M votes as Veep?
The conventional view, I believe, is that the democratic party doesn’t need a supercard to defeat republicans this year.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:13 amKay,
Sorry about the late response. Pinche work gets in the way. RHF (Republican Hates Facts) was so focused on Hillary getting nominated that all of his/her posts were pro-Hillary or anti-Obama, even when they were off topic.
I appreciate your posts and opinions (even if we don’t always line up on every issue) and would hate to see you get branded with the one issue of McKinney.
McKinney/Nader/Hillary don’t have a realistic shot at the Presidency and it really is a McCain vs Obama choice. There are still Hillary supporters out there who say they are going to vote for McCain out of spite. I think that is petty and short sighted.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:14 amBriseadh na Faire Says:
(which begs the question – will this nation/planet even survive another 30 years?)
I don’t know if we can survive another 30 years but I do know that we can’t survive another 4 years of Republican rule. The only chance we have as a nation to pull out of the downward spiral the Bush Crime Family has caused is to help Obama win the Whitehouse. I would say the same thing if Hillary was the candidate. Even she would be better for this country than another 4 years of Republican rule.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:16 amOfficials Seeking Cause For Tumors Test Soil
CAMERON, Mo. — State and federal officials investigating a rash of brain tumors in the Northwest Missouri town of Cameron gathered soil samples Monday from the former site of the Rockwool Insulation Plant to test for possible contamination.
More than a dozen people in the community have been diagnosed with brain tumors, including an 8-year-old girl.
Maycee Gardner has two tumors in the right front lobe of her brain, the part of the brain that controls memory and imagination. If they grow during the next three months, she’ll have to have them removed.
Cyndee Gardner, Maycee’s mother, knew something was wrong on Memorial Day when her daughter, who has epilepsy, had a strange seizure. Maycee had undergone an MRI a year earlier and was given a clean bill of health, but a new MRI showed that two tumors had grown within that year.
According to Missouri officials, Maycee is the 13th person from Cameron in the past year to develop a brain tumor. That’s why officials from the Department of Natural Resources and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency were in Cameron Monday testing soil.
They’d already ruled out the drinking water, so they’re testing the soil and groundwater. An anonymous tipster told officials that in the ’90s, hazardous chemicals were buried at the plant site.
Maycee starts the third grade next month, but it could be a challenging year if she has surgery to get her brain tumors removed.
http://www.kctv5.com/news/16882528/detail.html
HT:Calibleu
**The article goes on to say that many residents are now having MRIs to make sure they don’t have brain tumors. Meanwhile the EPA is…..?????
July 15th, 2008 at 11:17 amJust thought I’d ask:
who do you think Obama will pick as VEEP?
July 15th, 2008 at 11:17 amKay,
You do a good job of keeping the problems of our country at the forefront of your mind. Your list should be distributed to every American.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:19 amI think Governor Tim Kaine would be a good running mate for Obama, in terms of securing a win in Virginia.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:21 amjabberjaw Says:
——————————————————————————–
The only way I will consider voting for Obama is if he picks someone like Dennis Kucinich for VP, but what are the odds of that?
–
July 15th, 2008 at 11:23 amBut what about Nader? Have you moved on already? Damn you are fickle…
Is former Gov. Warner from Virginia (?) still being considered?
Of course, mayne Obama will choose McKinney!
July 15th, 2008 at 11:27 amLOL…
I should clarify #73.
Nader deservedly gets credit for various very important health and safety acts.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:29 amHowever the food ‘we’ eat now clearly isn’t healthier’ ( and hasn;t been for years), the cars we drive now are safer because of imported technologies. not because Nader exposed a dangerous car and business practices and got the seat-belt law passed decades ago.
States undermine federal air quality laws, power plants get exempted from pollution controls, mines poison waters more than ever before and OSHA regs aren’t properly policed or enforced.
Everything Nader accomplished for the public benefit required the support of the Republicans and/or the Democrats in Congress and the White House. Much of his good work has since been undermined and/or undone.
Nader hasn’t been able to accomplish anything since his hey day.
If Nader had any understanding of the reality of politics he should have run for Congress as a Democrat and then he’d have had the influence and access to power to make a bigger difference.
Instead he chose to stay outside the system and has proven he can’t affect it. So his ’solution’ is to simply become President. somehow. He’s an old consumer advocate, not a leader and not a political player. He made himself irrelevant.
Kay, your list is a perfect log of what the republicans have brought us under their rule. Do you really think those things would have happened at all if dems had been elected in 2000…??
July 15th, 2008 at 11:30 am*sigh* My over-sanitized comment has been moderated. Why? It hasn’t even the words @an@alist, f#ck a$$ or derived ones in it…
July 15th, 2008 at 11:31 amWell that is nice to know jabberjaw. I am still interested in learning more of your involvement in the Nader campaign and how you got so involved. I assume you were too busy yesterday to share your experiences with us. Maybe you’ll have a chance today
July 15th, 2008 at 11:32 amWarner doesn’t really want the VP slot. He only wants a Senate seat, which he’s guaranteed to win.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:36 amBreaking:
VIENNA, Austria – Oil prices are tumbling as traders dump the commodity amid concerns about the economy that are also driving the stock market sharply.
Prices dropped more than $10 a barrel from highs earlier in the day, and are now down more than $6 from Monday’s closing price. Light, sweet crude is trading at $139.03, down $6.15.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:36 amKay Says:
——————————————————————————–
Since I was born. I never said I was a “she”
July 15th, 2008 at 10:51 am
For the record, I never said I was a “he,” but people still though I was a boy between the ages of 8 & 10.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:41 amWell I like walks on beaches, sunsets, rainbows, and bunnies. My turn-offs are liars, distorters of truth and dudes that wear crocs (double if they have socks on)… So really I respect your dedication to the Nader way. Why not share it with us?
July 15th, 2008 at 11:42 amKay Says
July 15th, 2008 at 11:10 am
____________________________________________________________
This is a great list, and I admit I am also livid about every item on it.
I would add the following:
– Health care unaffordable and inaccessible for many, and getting more so all the time
– National debt escalating at an unprecedented rate, and interest on this debt taking up a larger and larger share of our budget
– China and other foreign interests owning more and more of our country
– A Department of Justice that’s anything but
– Lucrative no-bid contracts for Bushney friends
– Virtually every federal agency politicized
And those are just the ones off the top of my head.
I can understand your being fed up with politics as usual, and why you want to cast your vote for somebody else.
But I see Obama as the only hope we have of derailing the GOP-Bush machine that’s ruining this country. Even if I don’t agree with Obama 100% of the time.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:43 amNader said about the 2000 elections that he was willing to take America to the bottom by helping the republicans get elected to make his point. Don’t forget he took gop money to run against a democrat, again.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:48 amEvil Spaniard Says:
*sigh* My over-sanitized comment has been moderated. Why? It hasn’t even the words @an@alist, f#ck a$$ or derived ones in it…
I said the exact words two weeks ago. They moderated me 7 times in two days. I feel your pain.
have a good day Evil Spaniard :)
July 15th, 2008 at 11:49 amthanks, Molly for the additional Bush “Mission Accomplishments” for my list.
:)
July 15th, 2008 at 11:49 amGood Morning all and yes I do mean all…..I read all your post after I took my asprin and morning coffee..Good thing.
I find it so intresting that those of us that have been spoon fed and continued to vote for the lesser of two evil’s for many year’s are now being beat to death because we really do want change…What has been our own, progressive’s, Liberal’s are treating any one with the solution’s for a good change are being thrown under the bus, shunned and bad mouthed..Just goe’s to show how lazy our party had become…The majority on this and many site’s have screamed for year’s they want a change but in reality they continue to vote the party line, just like the rep’s and keep adding, “this is not the time to vote for a third party”…
I don’t happen to see it as a third party BTW, since we all know most of the dem’s have not just been enabeler’s to the bush madness indeed they have been driving the get away bus for the rep’s, they vote with them and are in bed with them..There are few good people in D.C…Kucinich, Fingold and a few other’s that do hold their oath of office and the constitution, country dear…I would call those few the last good remaining Dem’s..Clearly not a majority.
I found it insane the day the FISA vote and name’s were listed on this very site were put up…Comment’s that we had to vote all those that voted for FISA out, had to be removed from office, people said thing’s here and on other site’s like “F*** all of you that voted for Fisa”, “we are going to vote you out”. bla. bla . AND WHO’S NAME WAS ON THAT LIST.? OBAMA…Who waited long after it was obvious we the people were loosing voted along with the rest of the rep, telacom enabeler’s…Jeebos it was so insane and still is..AND THEN HE GET’S A FREE PASS. WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?…How many time’s are you all going to let these candidate’s play you for fool’s? You are being show up front before an election just what you are getting and you are ignoring the law breaker’s and still going to vote for him/them because you call them your own..
In my opinion anyone that vote’s for a person that has broken their oath of office has baught into a fear based realety that we must get the rep’s out at any cost..You are over looking the very heart and soul of our country, the constitution and using your fear to vote for someone who just threw a part of it away..I find this insanety and treasonious for our country.
Well, you all do as you please….I’m not in office or planning on running. I’ll be lucky to live long enough to vote in this election and you can take this to your failing bank, I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR ANY ONE WHO HAS VOTED AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION AND MY COUNTRY…THIS IS THE ONE THING I WILL NOT COMPROMISE ON….This old witch has gone GREEN…Many Blessing to all..
July 15th, 2008 at 11:52 amI am livid about:
2 stolens elections
2 illegal preemptive wars
our State Sponsored Terrorism (see 9/11)
4,000+ men and women dying in 2 illegal Oil Wars
a crumbling infrastructure
a tanking economy
a Million+ dead Iraqis
the Millions of displaced Iraqis
Katrina and it’s continuing aftermath
Our disgraced Moral Standing in the World (secret prisons, prisoner abuse)
The Patriot Act
The Military Commissions Act
The Homegrown Terrorist Prevention Act
The FISA Amendment Act
HELL on earth unleashed in the Middle East
People losing their homes left and right
$4+ a gallon for gas
skyrocketing food prices
US Attorney Scandal
lowered FDA standards
A dumber society
Greater disparity between rich and poor
A Disgraceful Environmental Policy
A Complicit Corporate Controlled Media
Manipulating Science
Executive Power Grab thus eliminating checks and balances
Disdain for the Constitution and The Bill of Rights
This “Phony War On Terror
Health care unaffordable and inaccessible for many, and getting more so all the time
July 15th, 2008 at 11:53 amNational debt escalating at an unprecedented rate, and interest on this debt taking up a larger and larger share of our budget
China and other foreign interests owning more and more of our country
A Department of Justice that’s anything but
Lucrative no-bid contracts for Bushney friends
Virtually every federal agency politicized
No oversight for BlackWater USA, Bechtel, Haliburton
jabberjaw
July 15th, 2008 at 11:55 amCats are only acceptable as indoor animals as they have serious implications to native bird populations, so I suppose we won’t be dating anytime soon. Is it safe to assume that a) your sudden Nader deal is a charade or b) you aren’t really that engaged in the Nader campaign?
jabberjaw Says:
——————————————————————————–
dbadass Says:
——————————————————————————–
Well I like walks on beaches, sunsets, rainbows, and bunnies. My turn-offs are liars, distorters of truth and dudes that wear crocs (double if they have socks on)…
July 15th, 2008 at 11:42 am
________________________________
Wow db, sounds like we have a lot in common. If you tell me you like kittens too, I may be hooked.
July 15th, 2008 at 11:48 am
*************************************************************
Um…you guys just wanna get a room?
July 15th, 2008 at 11:57 amthey are not the same. You cannot compare dems and reps and say they are the same…..they are not.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:08 pmWitch1 Says:
July 15th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Whoa! Easy there. Don’t go thinking for yourself now.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:12 pmWitch1:
I share your pain exactly and in fact, voted for Nader in 2000. Yup, me and about 80,000 (give or take) fellow Democrats in the state of Florida alone.
I felt OK in this because:
1. I wanted to help drive the Democrats to the left, to recognize the strength of the Progressives.
2. I was sure, after 8 years of prosperity, the country would elect another Democrat to the White House.
Yet, thanks to election fraud by Katherine Harris, Gore lost by 565 (?) votes in Florida and thus lost the election.
If just a fraction of the Nader voters (liberals, all) in Florida had voted for Gore we wouldn’t have Kay’s Livid List above. With the possible exception of “A Complicit Corporate Controlled Media”.
My vote was a big mistake and one I sorely regret. I’d like to help others avoid my own buyer’s remorse, if I can.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:13 pmThere are a number of things that are “broken” about the way we conduct elections in this country, and one of them is that our system doesn’t allow for any third party to be taken seriously.
People should not have to choose between voting for a candidate they truly would like to see in the White House, and voting for the lesser of two evils just to keep the greater of two evils from winning. Yet that’s what happens, election after election.
Because people don’t want to risk “losing” their vote, they are less likely to vote for a third party candidate — which in turn keeps any third party from gaining any real traction.
How to fix? Here’s an idea that I wish I could claim credit for, but it’s been proposed by quite a few others smarter than myself. Voters would vote for a first AND a second choice — the “instant runoff” scenario.
Here’s how it works. Let’s say that I like Nader, but I realistically believe that only Obama and McCain have a chance of winning the election. I vote for Nader, but my “instant runoff” choice is Obama.
Now, when the votes are counted, the “first choice” vote results are 38% McCain, 34% Obama, 17% Nader, 8% Barr, and 3% McKinney. In our current system, McCain would win the state. But with the “instant runoff” system, the “second choice” votes for everyone who did not vote for one of the top two vote-getters as their first choice would be counted. Adding up these votes gives McCain 44% and Obama 55% (1% of the voters chose another third party candidate as their second choice, resulting in neither of their votes affecting the results).
Obviously, Obama would win the state in this scenario. But something even more important would happen. The fact that Nader’s party grabbed 17% of the vote would help that party gain funding (and traction) for future elections. In time, these third parties would be true players in elections, causing candidates to have to campaign for the “second votes” of their supporters, and putting together coalitions that served the populace better.
There are other things broken about our election system besides this — the way we conduct our primaries, the Electoral College, etc. — but those rants I’ll save for other threads.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:22 pmAs much as many would like to blieve it is not about me, never has been.It’s about our country and more spacificaly about our constitution…..I pointed out on another post day’s ago if everyone would pick another candidate like Kucinich, Edward’s who ever, ban together on the net and vote for that person we could take our country back…As usual I have been sent to the troll bin rather than any one doeing anything…..As long as you think you have no choice thing’s will remain the same….Come up with another choice that doe’s not go against the constitution and I will join you…..If not I will continue to go with who ever doe’s not vote against my country or constitution…..Blessings
July 15th, 2008 at 12:27 pmGood morning, everyone!
Hmmm. I wonder why our concern troll is ignoring Bob Barr? He’s every bit as viable as our old friend Nader.
Perhaps because Barr is going to siphon Republican votes away from McOld, eh, Jabbie?
July 15th, 2008 at 12:51 pmmisshusseinmolly:
I couldn’t agree more.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:52 pmThose of you planning to vote for Nader – and as a consequence really pull the switch for McCain – why not vote for Barr and do the opposite? It makes more sense – and then you won’t feel the eternal guilt for assisting in the complete destruction of this once great country. Just a thought.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:53 pmThanks, Frosty. And good morning to you (and all posters).
July 15th, 2008 at 12:56 pmWell, shortening my limbo-post,
the economy is in the craper (Dow took yet another nose dive today), and Bernanke is saying that there are a lot of bad things to come in the short and medium term future),
a high-profile push by business groups to double the number of U.S. bachelor’s degrees awarded in science, math and engineering by 2015 is falling way behind target, a new report says. In 2005, 15 prominent business groups warned that a lack of expert workers and teachers posed a threat to U.S. competitiveness, and said the country would need 400,000 new graduates in the so-called STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) fields by 2015,
and, the EPA has just published a report about the costs of Global warming.
Sorry for the absence of links, but I want to minimize the odds of a moderation.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:02 pmRHF – Pssssst……. Screaming abuses and using violent language are right wing tactics that destroys the chance for civil discourse. Try expressing your opinions without the violence. Thank you.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:04 pmThe house will read Kucinich’s Impeachment bill today at 5 P.M. EDT…C-span will cover this…Blessings
July 15th, 2008 at 1:05 pmOh, the number of graduates in STEM as of today is around 255000, and isn’t rising. Has been flat consitently with the last years. That’s a 155000 graduates short.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:06 pmjabberjaw Says:
green Says:
——————————————————————————–
Those of you planning to vote for Nader – and as a consequence really pull the switch for McCain – why not vote for Barr and do the opposite? It makes more sense – and then you won’t feel the eternal guilt for assisting in the complete destruction of this once great country. Just a thought.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
_________________________________
Barr is not progressive. Barr is a conservative libertarian that would eliminate most of the government programs progressives have worked hard to create.
That’s my point. A vote for Barr is a vote for Obama. All Barr votes are votes taken away from McCain; all Nader votes are votes taken away from Obama. Think about it. If one cannot stomach voting for Obama because of the FISA bill, voting for Nader is really a vote for McCain. If McCain becomes president our country will die. So we all must do the responsible thing for ourselves, each other and are descendants.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:16 pmWell since libertarians seem to fall into one of two camps, I figure the “I am tooo lame to want to pay my taxes” camp might go with Barr. Now as to the ” I just want to smoke dope” camp…
July 15th, 2008 at 1:19 pmdbadass Says:
Well since libertarians seem to fall into one of two camps, I figure the “I am tooo lame to want to pay my taxes” camp might go with Barr. Now as to the ” I just want to smoke dope” camp…
July 15th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
We have a problem here, where do we classify Oxycontin Breath?
July 15th, 2008 at 1:25 pmTrippleKick Says:
Omar Khadr, you crybaby! I bet you thought you were a real tough man when you were at your al queda training camp. I bet you thought you were a big hero when you killed that Marine. Now you crying like a wimp. Enjoy the rest of your short life in Gitmo, scumbag.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
In the other hand, valiant Tongueatdick has been fighting the talibans typing furiously in internet boards at his mommy’s basement.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:30 pmTrippie, I sincerely hope someone tortures YOUR 15 year old son.
STFU, you heartless schmuck.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:36 pmgreen Says
July 15th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Those of you planning to vote for Nader – and as a consequence really pull the switch for McCain – why not vote for Barr and do the opposite?
_________________________________________________
Because, unless you were planning to vote for McCain if Barr wasn’t on the ballot, voting for Barr would not siphon anything away from McCain.
Voting for a third party candidate will only siphon your vote away from the major party candidate you would have voted for if you only had two choices. Regardless of whether you cast your vote for Nader OR Barr.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:53 pmTrippleKick Says:
Leftside,
This al queda trained terrorist killed one of your fellow American citizens who gave his life defending your freedoms. Who’s side are you on anyway…. oh, that’s right.
Accused, meathead. Where’s your proof?
Don’t have any? I thought so. If you believe anything the US military’s telling you, after Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch, you’re a sap.
July 15th, 2008 at 2:07 pmWe’re on the side of truth and justice. Who’s side are you on anyway….oh, that’s right
July 15th, 2008 at 2:09 pmWow it took 15 hours to subdue one dude? I’ll bet he is one of those militant monks that can fly and kick tens of thousands of asses using nothing more than a paper fan which gets folded into a cute peaceful animal after all the ass kicking is done.
July 15th, 2008 at 2:17 pmYeah, well, TK, I know whose side I’m on.
But returning barbarism for barbarism makes US terrorists as well.
Again, STFU you useless barbaric terrorist schmuck. I don’t care if you wrap yourself in 20 American flags – you’re as much a terrorist as any Al Qaeda member.
July 15th, 2008 at 2:27 pmJust wondering,
July 15th, 2008 at 2:28 pmdoes anyone have any proof Omar Khadr was tortured?
TrippleKick Says:
How pathetic that you eagerly defend the destruction of our morals and what America has stood for for over 200 years.
July 15th, 2008 at 2:30 pmAnd I’ll bet ol’ TK believes that he’s a Christian, too.
Who would Jesus torture, TK?
July 15th, 2008 at 2:39 pmdim wit Says
July 15th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
does anyone have any proof Omar Khadr was tortured?
______________________________________________________________
No proof that’s available for public consumption. Yet. Of course, I haven’t seen the videotape, but I understand that what it shows doesn’t meet everyone’s standards of what constitutes “torture” (though it obviously was unpleasant).
We also have no proof yet that he killed anyone.
This is why we need to start trying some of these people. If they are guilty of whatever offenses that have resulted in their detainment, then let them pay the penalty. If they are security risks if they are freed, then let this be specifically documented. If they are neither, let them go.
July 15th, 2008 at 2:55 pmKay Says:
By the way, Kay is a he
I’ve always find you relevant…
oops.
what is RHF path?
Ok.
Maybe I will vote for Obama.
Do you think Obama will choose Hillary and her 18M votes as Veep?
What profile do I fit under?
i dunno… i find it hard to take this one seriously…
July 15th, 2008 at 2:56 pmi say it’s a plant… doing a fairly good job…
misshusseinmolly Says:
[...]
How to fix? Here’s an idea that I wish I could claim credit for, but it’s been proposed by quite a few others smarter than myself. Voters would vote for a first AND a second choice — the “instant runoff” scenario.
[...]
In time, these third parties would be true players in elections, causing candidates to have to campaign for the “second votes” of their supporters, and putting together coalitions that served the populace better.
[...]
July 15th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
see, THIS is the kind of thing that nader SHOULD have been educating the public about, promoting and working to get changed.
he’s wasted way too much time.
July 15th, 2008 at 3:02 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFcxPjw2f-g
July 15th, 2008 at 3:33 pmWhen did congress declare a war?
This is a police action. It requires a justice system. The defendant(possibly you next) has rights, national and international that are being violated for no reason other than to show the world that we are mean and vicious. They believe us now.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:16 pm