Conservatives Peddle Hurricane-Spill Lie For Entire Month
Conservatives Peddle Hurricane-Spill Lie For Entire Month
To support the Big Oil agenda of increased offshore drilling, conservatives have been telling the American public that there weren’t any major spills caused by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita for an entire month. The following video shows Sen. McCain (R-AZ), Wall Street Journal writer Stephen Moore, Gov. Bobby Jindal (R-LA), Secretary of the Interior Dirk Kempthorne, McCain spokeswoman Nancy Pfotenhauer, former Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS), and Sen. McCain (again).
Watch it:
They appeared on CNN, CNN Headline News, Fox Business Network, Fox News, and MSNBC, but were never challenged for their false claims.
As the Wonk Room has reported, the clear satellite evidence of major spills was borne out by final reports. In May 2006, the U.S. Minerals Management Service (MMS) published their offshore damage assessment: “113 platforms totally destroyed, and 457 pipelines damaged, 101 of those major lines with 10″ or larger diameter.”
Unsurprisingly, this devastation caused significant spillage, according to the official report prepared for the MMS by a Norwegian firm:
Hurricanes Katrina and Rita Caused 124 Offshore Spills For A Total Of 743,700 Gallons. 554,400 gallons were crude oil and condensate from platforms, rigs and pipelines, and 189,000 gallons were refined products from platforms and rigs. [MMS, 1/22/07]
Hurricanes Katrina and Rita Caused Six Offshore Spills Of 42,000 Gallons Or Greater. The largest of these was 152,250 gallons, well over the 100,000 gallon threshold considered a “major spill.” [MMS, 5/1/06]
In addition, the hurricanes caused disastrous spills onshore throughout southeast Louisiana and the rest of the Gulf Coast as tanks, pipelines, refineries and other industrial facilities were destroyed, for a total of 595 different oil spills. The 9 million gallons reported spilled were comparable with the Exxon Valdez’s 10.8 million gallons, but unlike the Exxon Valdez, were distributed throughout Louisiana, Mississippi, and other Gulf Coast states, many in residential areas. The most massive spills included:
– The Bass Enterprises Cox Bay spill of 3.78 million gallons of oil, the largest spill caused by the hurricanes
– The Murphy Oil spill in Mereaux, LA of 819,000 gallons of oil, contaminating 1,700 homes and the local high school
At the time, the Houston Chronicle described the devastation as “among the worst environmental disasters in U.S. history.”
Cross-posted in The Wonk Room
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Conservatives must think that people are like mushrooms.
To be kept in the dark and fed shit.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:18 pmNeoCons can lie their collective butts off and our Corporate Own Media doesn’t challenge them on it….I wonder why?
I hate regressive cons, they are the most destructive plague on our country in history. We are being destroyed from domestic corruption.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:21 pmATTENTION TROLLS!!!
Here’s your talking points for the next few months:
July 16th, 2008 at 3:24 pmThere were NO oil spills caused by Katrina (in fact, those increase in gas prices were due to Democrats hording fuel!)
THANK YOU!
And don’t forget, when all else fails, the time tested non debater response of “It’s Clinton’s fault” will suffice.
You may now go back to your regularly scheduled devil shakin’ in your mother’s basement.
“They appeared on CNN, CNN Headline News, Fox Business Network, Fox News, and MSNBC, but were never challenged for their false claims.”
Allowing a lie to be perpetuated when knowing it is a lie, makes you a liar, too.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:27 pmSeems to me lying on this scale should be a crime. We don’t allow our children to tell lies like this. Why do we look away when our “leaders” do?
July 16th, 2008 at 3:29 pmNew Bush lies for old. New Bush lies for old. P.S., our Royal Bush has again claimed Tyrant’s Privilege to keep his treason on the outing of the undercover CIA agent Valerie Plame out of the public record.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:31 pmcomforting to know that we can count on MSM to set the record straight.
nothing but a bunch of fu(king co-conspirators!
July 16th, 2008 at 3:34 pmcronies of corporate amerika.
Both Republicans and Democrats spin this report from the MMS.
Here is the link to the actual report:
http://www.mms.gov/ SettingtheRecordStraight/ EstimatedOil%20SpillsAsaResultofHurricanesKatrinaandRita.htm
There where 125 spills from Kartina and Rita which averaged 130.42 barrels per spill.
Here are some highlights:
” As of January 25, 2007, MMS identified 125 spills of petroleum products totaling 16,302 barrels that were lost from platforms, rigs, and pipelines on the Federal Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) as a result of damages from Hurricanes Katrina and Rita in 2005.
Those spills did not occur due to loss of control of the producing wells.
There were no major spills (2,381 barrels per spill or greater) according to USCG official standards.
The USCG defines offshore spills of less than 10,000 gallons (238 barrels) as “MINOR”; offshore spills of 10,000 to 99,999 gallons (238 to 2,380 barrels) as “MEDIUM”; and offshore spills of 100,000 gallons, (2,381 barrels) and greater as “MAJOR”.
According to a report on “Oil in the Sea” from the National Academy of Sciences (1995), far more oil enters the ocean from natural, underwater seeps than from offshore production platforms. In fact, the seeps introduce about 1700 barrels of oil a day into U.S. marine waters, which is about 150 times the amount from oil and gas activities.
Over the past 20 years, less than .001 percent of the oil produced in U.S. state and federal waters have been spilled.
The loss of oil from the Federal OCS wells themselves was minimal due to the successful operation of the safety valves that are required by the Minerals Management Service (MMS) to be installed on every well at least 100 feet below the ocean floor.
All facilities on the Outer Continental Shelf in areas threatened by the hurricanes are “shut in” prior to a storm’s arrival, meaning that pipelines are closed and platforms are secured for heavy weather.
Oil losses were mostly limited to the oil stored on platforms that were damaged or oil contained in individual segments of pipelines that were damaged.
There were no accounts of spills from facilities on the OCS that reached the shoreline, or oiled birds or mammals, or involved any large volumes of oil to be collected or cleaned up.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:35 pmThe irony is: they believe this because they never saw any footage on TV of oil-covered beaches, like we saw after the Valdez oilspill in Alaska.
But they ARE the Media that never showed the footage.
And few showed the condition of the beaches because if a reporter was sent to Louisiana, they went to New Orleans, not the beach.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:35 pmmonday evening, by happenstance, i got to listen in to a conference call with my rep., john shimkus (shitkus) (R-IL 19th)… it was new to me, and as i only send him “hate” email, not sure why MY number was picked, but i was curious so i hung on and listened…
when a question got to the gas prices and how to help lower them, he got in several of these lying talking points… when he got to “not a drop spilled during katrina” i started yelling…
which may be why they never got to MY question before ending the call… the moderator must’ve heard me, if no one else…
but i did leave a message as invited at the end of the call…
that pr!ck has been lying for years…
now, the dems here are running a pro-life-er without a chance…
July 16th, 2008 at 3:35 pmBuckie Boy Says:
NeoCons can lie their collective butts off and our Corporate Own Media doesn’t challenge them on it….I wonder why?
I hate regressive cons, they are the most destructive plague on our country in history. We are being destroyed from domestic Terrorism.
There, fixed it for you
July 16th, 2008 at 3:36 pmDon’t mind that little squeaking sound from the margin. Big Oil is no longer en-vogue and most people hate em’ now. Their tanker is running aground.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:37 pmIt absolutely boggles my mind that such blatant lies can be told again and again, and the liars who tell them get away with it.
I said this in the Beck thread, and I’ll say it here for the same reason. I miss the days when journalism as an industry had integrity and credibility, and any member of the club who didn’t meet those standards was essentially expelled from it. Pundits and interviewers did their homework, and would never allow any interviewee to lie their head off without being challenged.
What happened?
July 16th, 2008 at 3:37 pmBoy, the Pukes must be off their game. They only peddled this lie for a single MONTH??
Yikes.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:37 pmOn a trip back from South America about a week after Katrina, I was flying home out of Miami across the N. Gulf of Mexico and you could see oil slicks on the water for miles coming from some of the platforms.
Then we had the BLM/USGS reports and it confirmed it.
But I guess, if the Repugs say it didn’t happen, I should believe them instead of my own two eyes, right?
July 16th, 2008 at 3:38 pmI’m missing something. The MMS report says that there were 124 spills but the Houston Chronicle says there were 595. Noob17@8 above says that the MMS report states that none of the spills were very large but the quote in the blog post says that that “Hurricanes Katrina and Rita Caused 124 Offshore Spills For A Total Of 743,700 Gallons. 554,400 gallons were crude oil and condensate from platforms, rigs and pipelines, and 189,000 gallons were refined products from platforms and rigs.”
Are all these numbers coming from different areas? Is the Chronicle report the only one that pulls all the numbers together? Is the link posted by Noob17 not correct in that it says that the MMS report states that the spills were small? What’s the buzz here?
July 16th, 2008 at 3:47 pmNoob’s “link” is not to the report but to the apologia the Bushies put up to spin it. Noob also falsly claims that “[B]oth Republicans and Democrats spin this report. . .” when the truth is that the Republicans ignore it, instead denying that there were any platform spills. My point last night on a similar thread is that the scary part of the report is that the conclusion was that the rigs and pipelines performed well and we still had 124 spills from Katrina and Rita. In a responsible society you do not lie about the facts. You get them on the table and discuss whether the proven consequences of the proposed conduct (in this case increased offshore drilling) can be justified. The only lying (I won’t dignify the blatant lie with the term “spinning”) is from the Republicans. Coincidence?
July 16th, 2008 at 3:50 pmSomething’s wrong with this picture. These morons lie and lie again on TeeVee, and no-one calls them on it. The news reporters (and I use the term loosely) do the same thing when telling the most outrageous stories, particularly on FoxNews, and no-one calls them on it.
Yet several months ago there was a lady named Martha Stewart who apparently told a lie regarding insider information when selling stock. The press was all over it like stink on shit. Countless hours, days and months were devoted to the horrible crime she had committed. Rather than the ordeal of a trial, she voluntarily served five months or so in prison.
What’s going on here? Does the current crop of liars get a pass because they are male, affluent, important or well connected? Have so many lies been told that we are immune to reality?
July 16th, 2008 at 3:58 pmjgc
The MMS and Chronicle numbers are different because they are talking about different kinds of spills. The Chron figures relate mostly if not entirely to spills resulting from damage to refineries and storage tanks which, because of the concentration of oil and onshore location were devastating to the ecology. The MMS report is restricted to deep water spills which is the kind relevant to the issue of offshore drilling. One of the reasons they can say that the damage was not as great is that the farther out to sea you spill oil the less likely it is to make it to your shoreline before they can at least try to clean it up. The MMS report did without question complement the functioning of the offshore equipment. It also however acknowledged the spills took place which the wingers are not willing to do.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:00 pmThe fact of the matter is that, this isn’t about drilling, pollution, or even gas prices. It’s an attempted “land grab” by the oil industry. They have no need, desire or ability to drill new wells over existing plans. If they did? There would be new wells all around the country.
Their obvious, and admitted, plan is to use “extra” drilling on existing leases to justify more leases. This will occur whether the “extra” drilling takes place or not. And the only way the “extra” drilling will ever occur is if the multinationals are, eventually, booted from Iraq.
So long as the record profits are flowing? No company will drill any “extra” domestic wells.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:02 pmMiss H Molly
What happened?
Corporate conglomerate ownership and no independently owned & operated media.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:03 pmWhy do Republicans feel the constant need to lie? Why do Republicans lie about everything?
July 16th, 2008 at 4:07 pm“All of these people are polluter-funded, from McCain on down.”
You mean there’s something below McSame?
(Maybe whale shit?)
July 16th, 2008 at 4:07 pmMy son, a college student in a 2 year program, now completed 1 year of this, in with the same students, (20 students) most appear to be young Christians… he has noticed a change in their attitudes…. more than ever they hate Obama. When he questions as to why they have no answers. They don’t know why, just hate him.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:11 pmI am going to guess this young group does not listen to Rush and the other hate America shows, and the attitude must be coming from the church via right wing spin and LIES.
Dallas Morning News - 15 Sep 2005.
It sounds like most of the oil came from refineries and tank farms (with possibly 1-2 million gallons from cars and gas stations.
Is there a disconnect between significant oil spills after the hurricanes from other sources and the comparatively less oil being spilled from the actual drilling operation?
July 16th, 2008 at 4:14 pmThey have to lie otherwise people will find out the truth.
We don’t want that now, do we?
July 16th, 2008 at 4:18 pmI don’t think politicians deserve hate.
I think most of the hatred is cultivated by machiavellian forces that want to push their agenda by any means. The top priority seems to be to demonize the opposition, without regard to reason.
It’s sad to say, but it must be working, because both sides do it.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:23 pmAnd let’s consider that, with plenty of advance warning, none of the platforms should have been operating at the time. Presumably they were all shut down, possibly evacuated?
And thy still leaked oil into the Gulf.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:24 pmOooo, I know! I know this one!
…Because the truth has a liberal bias?
July 16th, 2008 at 4:25 pmThe Big Lie! Part of any Fascist regime!
July 16th, 2008 at 4:34 pmWhat’s abeach without a few tarballs? The Gulf Coast has some lovely beaches. Too bad they are filthy.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:40 pmGross.
I’m glad Dirk Kempthorne aka Plastic Man is no longer the Governor of this state.
Thank you, America, for sharing the burden of this idiot with the State of Idaho.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:43 pmVerbalKint Says:
Why do Republicans feel the constant need to lie? Why do Republicans lie about everything?
They lie because your average Republican doesn’t know any better, and doesn’t care to properly inform themselves. This is why the continue to have a base. Until people educate themselves, this will never change.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:47 pmHi Zooey:
How’s work? Can your people expediate my reimbursement?
Seriously what parent names their kid Dirk? Maybe the same ones that name their kid Grover…
July 16th, 2008 at 4:50 pmHi dbadass, work is nuts. I’ll tell one of the Zoo creatures to move to NH right away. :)
The current Governor’s name is “Butch.” I think our politicians are WAY overcompensating…
July 16th, 2008 at 4:57 pmI suppose Butch is better than Buddy or Rusty
July 16th, 2008 at 4:59 pmNot really…
July 16th, 2008 at 5:02 pmHey maybe Dick Swett might relocate
July 16th, 2008 at 5:05 pmHere’s from the MMS link on the oil and condensate leaked from platforms, rigs and pipelines:
The impacts from Hurricanes Katrina and Rita
July 16th, 2008 at 5:05 pmwere typical of this historical experience.
While cleanup was required. The volume of oil
spilled and impacts to shore from the offshore
infrastructure were categorized as minor.
Onshore impacts from localized tank failures resulting from flooding were more significant, but
are not in the scope of the damage assessment carried out by DNV.
this:
As a result of both storms, 124 spills were reported with
July 16th, 2008 at 5:07 pma total volume of roughly 17,700 barrels of total petroleum products, of which about 13,200
barrels were crude oil and condensate from platforms, rigs and pipelines, and 4,500 barrels were
refined products from platforms and rigs.
Pipelines were accountable for 72 spills totaling about 7,300 barrels of crude oil and condensate
spilled into the GOM.
and finally this:
Response and recovery efforts kept the impacts to a minimum with no onshore impacts from these spill events.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:07 pmIf you look at the video; Moore, Pfotenhauer and Lott say that not a drop was spilled. That’s obviously not correct.
But McCain, Jindal and Kempthorne say that the spills weren’t significant - which is more consistent with the MMS source sited by TP.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:11 pmbackup:
July 16th, 2008 at 5:12 pmHave you ever actually walked those beaches? I have and I have been a volunteer for the Center for Marine Conservation for years. As a marine scientist have experienced coastal environments on both coasts and overseas. I wonder about the priorities of others. Buy local, slow down, and stop buying stupidly packaged products… In most places water in the US water comes out of a tap. Enough with those plastic bottles…
If they say it over and over, with enough conviction and a serious tone…
July 16th, 2008 at 5:16 pmdoesn’t it then become true?
dbadass. I haven’t been to the beaches (LA, TX, MS, AL). I am with you about the overuse of plastic. The multilayers of seemingly useless packaging doesn’t make sense. Ideally, someone will come up with an alternative that actually bio-degrades over time.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:18 pmJust these:
1.The damage from any oil spill can’t be accurately assessed for years or even decades. Spilt oil has a nasty habit of turning up in unexpected places.
2.Every time oil is transported, up a well-shaft or across an ocean, the chance of a spill increases.
3.The Bush administration and the GOP have systematically lied about the number, and extent, of every environmental disaster for the last 8 years. And they have adopted the “it didn’t happen” defense in the case of the Katrina/Rita spills.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:20 pmOops! “spilled”.
I knew I needed a nap.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:23 pmTrent Lott is from Mississippi. We already have enough mouthbreathers here in Alabama.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:26 pmpete:
Many years ago I was employed as a mate on a local party boat that provided the transport to from a community which hosted both a destroyer and later a carrier. The hydrocarbon losses from these two vessels alone in an inshore harbor area with limited tidal flushing was really eye opening.
backup:
July 16th, 2008 at 5:26 pmThen let’s all work together and make easy lifestyle changes which all add up
pete. more drilling, more chance for spills.
The issue on this thread seems to be credibility. McCain, Jindal, Kempthorne say that the oil spilled during Katrina and Rita from the drilling operations were not significant. The source sited by TP characterizes the environmental impact (from the drilling operation) as minor with no onshore impact.
That seems consistent to me.
On whether we should drill more: I would prefer that we let the oil stay in the ground (a reserve that we could drill later if/when we really need it) and that we address the supply vs. demand crisis by lowering our demand (conservation, alternatives, innovation).
July 16th, 2008 at 5:30 pmThe bottom line, the 800 lb gorrila in the room is this:
We are at Peak Oil now. The known reserves - if they are accurate - suggest another 50-60 years of ever diminishing supplies. Within 20-30 years, it will cost so much to extract the oil, it will take a small fortune to purchase it - only governments and movie stars would have access to it.
And also during this time, we would have crossed the point of no return concerning the livability of our planet due to green house gasses and the like.
We are discussing a disappearing substance. As the supply dwindles, more and more wars and invasions will be needed to acquire the shrinking commodity. We are approaching a vanishing point where it might be too late to re-tool the infrastructure and economic models necessary to change the way we propel our vehicles and heat our homes.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:32 pmdbadass. That is the answer. I oppose the drill here, drill now sentiment. It’s short sighted. We can keep our reserves in the ground for a much rainier day (hopefully that day won’t come) and suffer though the short term, while we transition to better, cleaner alternatives.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:35 pmThe Republicans keep on doing this sort of thing because they have no respect for the truth. They haven’t respected the truth in decades. They take advantage of the concept of “civil debate” by saying outrageously false things because they know that if anyone says, “Wait a minute, that’s a total lie and you know it!”, the person calling them out will be portrayed as the one who’s “shrill” or “uncivil”. They also take advantage of the media’s preposterous idea of having a liberal and a conservative on to discuss each and every issue (they call it “balance”), as if the two views carried equal weight and the truth (or responsible thing to do) lies somewhere exactly in the middle. This is wrong. Conservatives, and the Republicans supported by them, lie all the time. All. The. Time.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:35 pmdbadass:
In 1964 an oil-barge went down on the Mississippi, about 5 miles upstream from our rustic cabin. It wiped out the Bald Eagles, (which were already suffering from DDT and have since returned), and destroyed backwater vegetation for a 30 mile stretch. To this day there are places where there’s a layer of oil under about a foot of sand. And there are tarballs in the flood plain. Petroleum, as you well know, is millions of years in the making and, when spilled, lasts essentially forever.
The odd thing is that I’m not against additional exploration or drilling. We just need to invest much more in spill prevention and containment. And we can no longer afford to let the industry police itself.
What’s triply frustrating is that oil is getting precious enough that the prevention will pay for itself in reduced loss. But they can’t break their mad addiction to obscene wealth. Short-term profit will be king until the long range projections go down. And as long as a quarter of the country is stupid enough to buy the Party Line? Change won’t occur.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:43 pmThey also take advantage of the media’s preposterous idea of having a liberal and a conservative on to discuss each and every issue (they call it “balance”), as if the two views carried equal weight and the truth (or responsible thing to do) lies somewhere exactly in the middle. This is wrong. Conservatives, and the Republicans supported by them, lie all the time. All. The. Time.
Agreed. Which is why I would prefer that the news divisions be entirely separate from the other business units within the parent organization.
GE and MSNBC are linked so that the vast profitability concerns are paramount - not providing good news coverage. That’s why we will get numerous days of coverage for a missing white girl in Aruba, but little on the fact that the 4th amendment has been shredded.
That’s why we get wall to wall coverage of Jon Benet Ramsey and nothing of Rove’s refusal to honor a Congressional subpeona.
Until the news can stand on it’s own, we will be subject to the ‘fair and balanced’ approach which got us King Dufus and his happy henchmen.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:43 pmpete:
July 16th, 2008 at 5:51 pmWhich is one of the basic reasons why I think the idea of the invisible hand is largely nothing more than cloud talk. I am sandwiched between two poorly located and aging nuclear plants. Year after year we extend licenses and stiff wallow about with eyes closed. The US has never had a coherent energy policy and probably never will. Tragedy of the Commons?
before the freudians get here, that should have been still
July 16th, 2008 at 5:52 pmI appreciate that backup. Have you harassed your Representatives lately? And I certainly agree about saving our dwindling supplies. I often tell friends:
“Once motivated, changing how we propel cars will be easy. Learning to live without plastic will be a freakin catastrophe”!
July 16th, 2008 at 5:54 pmJust “catapulting the propaganda”, ma’am, move along, nothing to see here.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:55 pmdbadass Says:
The US has never had a coherent energy policy and probably never will.
Coherent? I’d settle for one that’s not bat-scat insane.
July 16th, 2008 at 5:58 pmThe ‘invisible hand’ isn’t the whole answer, but it is real and probably our most powerful engine.
If you think about our oil addiction, it is the ‘invisible hand’ that may finally break it.
Many people want to do good for the environment. Many people probably don’t want to be dependant on the middle east for our energy needs. Many people think it’s a good idea to conserve, innovate more efficiency and find better alternatives. They’ve probably thought that for a long time.
But, in the end, what will motivate them? $4 a gallon (and higher) gasoline. People are driving less. Adjusting the thermostat and insulating their homes. Hybrids are much more popular. Windfarms and solar farms are being built.
I don’t think the answer is to deny the invisible hand, but to find the best way to ‘progressively’ manage it for the common good.
July 16th, 2008 at 6:04 pmI’ve got nothing to base it on, but I just feel that (in terms of plastic packaging) we ought to be able to come up with a watertight, sturdy, material (like plastic) that would degrade much more rapidly.
July 16th, 2008 at 6:07 pmAt the risk of going completely off topic, our nuclear “policy” makes me so angry, and frightened, I could scream. Nuclear power could, still, be the savior it was once projected to be, however, there needs to be one fundamental change in thinking.
ONLY engineers and physicists can be allowed operational control. No lawyers. No MBAs. And absolutely no politicians. Anyone with a profit motive above a fair salary MUST be eliminated from the loop.
Yes. There are inherent dangers in running nuclear reactors. But, they are well understood and preventable IF qualified people make the decisions. Unfortunately, I have yet to hear of a method to ensure the proper level of competence. So, nuclear power must remain a promise for a more rational, evolved, future, generation. I hope we save enough of the planet to give them the chance.
July 16th, 2008 at 6:08 pmpete and I tend to be somewhat of the same mind. My nuclear concerns have more to do with management and the aging infrastructure. Still the problem of waste storage is a major issue. Yucca Mtn isn’t a real solution
July 16th, 2008 at 6:13 pmI’ve got nothing to base it on, but I just feel that (in terms of plastic packaging) we ought to be able to come up with a watertight, sturdy, material (like plastic) that would degrade much more rapidly.
That’s another area we need to change our thinking. It’s never made sense, to me, to wrap a piece of meat (shelf life three days) in plastic (lasts “forever”). Why not biodegradable cellulose? Heck! Why not 100% recyclable glass bottles? I would even lobby for a return to all paper milk cartons, but, some politician would insist they be made out of old-growth Redwoods or endangered Whooping Bushes.
July 16th, 2008 at 6:15 pmpete,
I’m not against the use of nuclear energy so much because of the dangers of the operation itself. I agree that if built correctly and operated and run by people who understand what they’re doing (and how doing it cheaper could be deadly), there is little to worry about, though we should still be concerned.
It’s the nuclear waste that’s the problem. What do we do with it?
July 16th, 2008 at 6:17 pmI haven’t contacted my representative, but obviously, I should. I was taking with a co-worker today and he started bring up the need to break our oil addiction.
I think this issue is very ripe. I understand why Bush/Cheney have foot dragged, because of their ties to oil.
But, they’ll be gone in January. What I can’t understand is the lack of an attempt at a comprehensive energy policy from those vying for leadership today.
I think people want to be united in a common effort. People want to be energy independent. People want to conserve the environment. Find cleaner and cheaper, alternatives. They want to stop sending U.S. dollars to the middle east.
The goals may come to confluence.
Like most efforts, it could require some compromise (environmentalists might compromise some drilling, clean coal efforts, nuclear to get those non-environmentalists to commit to conservation measures, higher fuel standards, carbon taxes, better emissions standards, mass transit, etc.)
Obviously, my plan may not work. But, would it be that hard to come up with a plan that would?
A comprehensive energy plan, that’s more environment friendly and independent, is begging for it’s Kennedy moment.
July 16th, 2008 at 6:26 pmStill the problem of waste storage is a major issue. Yucca Mtn isn’t a real solution
July 16th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
That’s where new technologies come in. Theoretically, a reactor can be designed to “burn” any radioactive material including chopped up bits of old reactors.
These new reactors (there are many types being pursued) will use generations of fuel, much of it consisting of “waste” from old reactors or created by the reactor itself. If the process is completed there will be two grades of waste.
1. Large amounts of “cool” waste which is less radioactive than the parent ore and could be shoveled back in the same hole it came out of.
and.
2. Small amounts of waste which is so “hot” it will remain dangerous for a very short time. (Years or decades as opposed to millennia.)
But, like dbadass, it’s the human parts of the equation that give me the willies. They thought of a 70 year old Bushbot making cost based decisions is too frightening to comprehend.
July 16th, 2008 at 6:28 pmI live in GROUND ZERO for Katrina, south of New Orleans in Plaquemines Parish, Louisiana.. The forgotten story…
My website details the oil spilled IN JUST THIS PARISH BY *KATRINA ALONE*, not counting Rita which nailed us also.
http://www.PLAQUEMINES.com
Scoll down: SUBJECT: OIL SPILLS ALMOST AS BAD AS EXXON VALDEZ SPILL
“Just months ago, oil spills on the Louisiana coast almost reached the scale of the Valdez disaster. But the spills drew little attention because they were only one piece of an even bigger story: Hurricane Katrina.
The storm smashed pipelines and tanks, unleashing at least 7 million gallons of crude; it laced valuable coastal wetlands and oiled wading birds.”
July 16th, 2008 at 8:17 pmI’m from Missouri, and I take Kitt Bond as a surrogate of Bush. (Proof that the republicans actually support cloning).
I’ve noticed the conservative tactic in the past - just say something outrageous and dare the person to disagree with you. If they do, just sit there and smile.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:41 pm