After Voting For Education Cuts, McCain Touts Education Reform At NAACP
After Voting For Education Cuts, McCain Touts Education Reform At NAACP
Today, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), in a speech focusing on education, addressed the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and suggested that he had the “clarity of purpose” to address education issues in the African American community:
Education reform has long been a priority of the NAACP, and for good reason. For all the best efforts of teachers and administrators, the worst problems of our public school system are often found in black communities. Black and Latino students are among the most likely to drop out of high school. African Americans are also among the least likely to go on to college.
But McCain’s voting record has only exacerbated the “problems of our public school system.” In fact, McCain received an ‘F’ from the NAACP’s Civil Rights Federal Legislative Report Card for the 109th Congress (the last date for which a complete report is available), voting with the NAACP only 7 percent of the time and tying with 14 other conservative senators for last place. McCain “also received failing grades from the NAACP in every report card of the last decade.”
Here is a sampling of McCain’s record on education:
- Voted Against Head Start Programs: In 2005, for instance, McCain voted against increasing “federal spending on Head Start programs by $153 million.”
- Voted Against Expanding Pell Grants: While 45 percent of African Americans rely on Pell Grants to pay for college, McCain has consistently voted to cut the value of Pell Grants.
- Voted Against Title I Education Grants: McCain voted against increasing spending on Title I education grants, which are designed to help public schools that serve predominantly low-income students, by $3 billion.”
As the Wonk Room has points out, McCain’s campaign proposals do little to improve education in minority communities. On the contrary, the draconian funding cuts needed to pay for his McCain’s proposed tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy and his proposed spending freeze would likely crowd out education initiatives.
Education may be “a priority of the NAACP,” but not for McCain.
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Facts are facts, bullshit is smelly.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:01 pmFigure it out McIIIrd.
Well, you do have to give him points for having the courage to speak in front of the NAACP. I’m betting his welcome was rather chilly.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:09 pmI heard he got a standing ovation.
What is it? Pick on African-Americans. First Sen. Obama on ‘responsibility’ the mcchimpy on ‘education.’ Can they see the two are meshed? These problems affect all communities. Pointing fingers won’t solve a damn thing.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:22 pmI will double my usual odds and give $40 to a glass of warm (make that even cold) that the SOB (In McSame’s case it is Senile Old Bastard–just keep in mind that I am “CRUSTY” not senile)doesn’t even read his speeches before they come up on the tele-prompter (which may be an error in itself–would you believe myoptic-prompter) Before you get all up in arms and accuse me of age discrimination keep in mind that my Dear Departed Daddy taught me to respect my elders. I don’t have to respect that young whipper-what?
July 16th, 2008 at 7:25 pmWe’re talking about a man who graduated 894 out of 899 at the Naval Academy. We’re talking about a man who considers himself computer ‘illiterate’ and just now learning to use the internet. He wouldn’t know much about education.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:26 pmAny education beyond “God bless America” and “Goddidit” works against McPander Bear and his defunct party.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:30 pmHe wouldn’t know much about education.
And after crashing five planes, it seems he doesn’t know much about flight either. We don’t need another dumb president.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:34 pmMost would agree that our public education system is lacking and our students are lagging by comparasion to the students of other countries.
Our per capita spending on education seems generous. More money doesn’t seem to be the issue.
Vouchers. If African American students are in a failing school. And we offer vouchers to their parents, so they can choose to send their child to a better school. Wouldn’t we be empowering them to find better education for their children? Wouldn’t we stimulate schools to become more competitive, to offer better education?
July 16th, 2008 at 7:38 pmWe need fewer administrators and more in-class educators. We need more focus on the fundamentals and less focus on the ’stylish’ hip class of the day (movie history, music trivia). We need to make the teachers accountable for the progress and performance of their students.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:43 pmHow do you make teachers accountable?
July 16th, 2008 at 7:45 pmI SAW SOME OF HIS SPEECH ON CNN…..IT WAS HILARIOUS….DEAD SILENCE
I BET MKKKAIN WAS WONDERING WHETHER HIS MICROPHONE WAS TURNED ON
July 16th, 2008 at 7:46 pmBackup, No, we need better paid teachers and smaller classroom sizes for poor school districts, like they have in richer school districts. We need more federal money to bridge that gap.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:46 pmIs it time for new flip flops for McCain? Surely he must have worn out at least one pair by now.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:47 pmWell, I give him credit for venturing into unfriendly territory.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:49 pmBilbo, I don’t think McCain had a lot to fear there. If he holds a town meeting in Cabrini Green, then I’ll give Johnny BomBombs some credit for courage.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:50 pmMcCain. I’m asking this because I don’t know:
Is there evidence that more money for teachers and smaller class size in poor districts improves performance.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:51 pmbackup, your approach seems to say that it’s the schools fault that education isn’t working.
There’s a lot of evidence that says that the home environment plays a much greater role in scholastic success or failure than does an individual school or teacher. Poverty, single-parent households, households where both parents work outside the home… these are the big challenges to improving school performance.
Teachers today are asked to provide much more of the discipline, structure and moral guidance that kids need than they ever were before. That’s not conducive to a good educational experience.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:52 pmbackup Says:
Most would agree that our public education system is lacking and our students are lagging by comparasion to the students of other countries.
Our per capita spending on education seems generous. More money doesn’t seem to be the issue.
Vouchers. If African American students are in a failing school. And we offer vouchers to their parents, so they can choose to send their child to a better school. Wouldn’t we be empowering them to find better education for their children? Wouldn’t we stimulate schools to become more competitive, to offer better education?
That won’t help. Vouchers are good for schools who have the option to choose their students. I know the school system isn’t doing what the time calls for…modernization.
Besides vouchers isn’t good for the economy. What do we give people who don’t have kids to send to school?
July 16th, 2008 at 7:53 pmbackup,
The Pollyanna routine is getting tired. Find something else, please.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:56 pmHere’s some pro voucher argument:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=1532494
July 16th, 2008 at 7:57 pmI oppose the use of school vouchers because, like health care, education should not be a “for-profit” industry. What’s the purpose, to teach the next generation things they’ll need to learn to survive on this crazy planet, or make money off their parents?
July 16th, 2008 at 7:58 pmteachers and administrators are not to blame. But, there doesn’t seem to be much incentive to perform. And, an even bigger problem may be a societal responsibility shirk.
Parents send there kids on the bus and expect teachers to be wholly responsible for the child’s development. Teachers send the kids back on the bus with homework expecting the parents to handle it. Each party thinks the other is managing things. After 12 years of student ping pong everyone puts down their paddles and the kids got no employable skill.
You could pay the teachers $100k a year, but the parent still needs to take the responsibility that the child is getting educated.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:05 pmralph. I agree. This is the heart of the problem.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:07 pmBackup, I don’t know of any specific studies. It seems self evident to me, comparing statistics between rich and poor districts. I think most teachers will say class size effects their ability to teach- to control their class and to give individual attention. I think better pay would attract more applicants, giving a district a better chance to hire better teachers, and would also improve the morale and thus the performance of the teachers. I have friends/family who’ve taught in both well-off and poor districts, and my opinions have been largely influenced by them.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:08 pmZooey.
I’ll try to throttle back and possibly throw in an occassional curmudgeon. :(
July 16th, 2008 at 8:11 pmOvenbirds are so cool…
July 16th, 2008 at 8:12 pmMcCain. It would seem that more money would either help attract better teachers and/or retain them. And it also seems that smaller class sizes would promote a better learning environment.
I’m am agreeing with ralph, that an even more important factor is parental involvement. How do you generate that?
July 16th, 2008 at 8:14 pmBack in the day it was easier for parents to satisfy their children’s emotional needs. These days the parents are too overworked and overwhelmed.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:14 pmMy wife makes enough money to support are family. I don’t know how other families can manage, especially as the world gets more complicated and dangerous by the day.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:18 pmyou’re right. There seems to be some logic behind the idea of one parent staying at home. (I support equality for women, so it could be either parent.)
Maybe our pursuit of materialism has lead us to dual incomes and neglected kids.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:21 pmschool vouchers.
the conservative canard.
*
thank you.
:)
July 16th, 2008 at 8:21 pmMcCain. Good to hear about you family (#29). Maybe a cultural shift away from buying, consuming and credit and towards family, education and saving could save us, our planet, and our economy.
Gotta split. Good night.
July 16th, 2008 at 8:30 pmMaybe we can test our way out…
If you’d like to change your answer please be sure to erase completely. Use a number 2 pencil only… When you come to the stop sigh that says stop, stop. It is sort of weird that we have to read you that part…
July 16th, 2008 at 8:32 pmjoe. I’ll read your link later. Are you agnostic or atheist?
July 16th, 2008 at 8:33 pmMaybe our pursuit of materialism has lead us to dual incomes and neglected kids.
You are a pompous little twit, did it ever occur to you that most working class families need both incomes just to survive?
July 16th, 2008 at 8:38 pmbu,
i’m a baptised
anagogical practicalist.
the seat of our church
is located in lodi, ca.
“oh lord stuck lodi again.”
- john fogerty
*
¿y usted?
&
¡buena suerte!
#
July 16th, 2008 at 8:58 pmLawr1999 beat me to it.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:02 pmWhat backup does not understand is that it is going to take changes/improvements across multiple areas of our current society.
Lower Inflation
Equal Pay
Higher minimum wage on par with costs of living
More regulatory controls for educational earmarks (Stop the Feds and States from stealing from the education funds)
I can go on and on, but I think you get the drift.
JoeC
July 16th, 2008 at 9:05 pmLodi! I am in San Jose. Went to a Seminary right outside of Galt. St. Pius X, alas I am no longer a believer though.
Backup, Welfare “reform” and a poverty-level minimum wage lead to neglected kids. My family wouldn’t being doing so well if we hadn’t benefited from good old fashioned welfare.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:12 pmIt has been said that the only education of value is the ability to learn and think. Unfortunately, there’s no clear consensus of the best way to teach those two things. What is clear is that parents play a more important role as motivators whereas teachers (including informal mentors) provide a range of knowledge beyond the parent’s experience. Energetic motivation from one or the other is a necessity.
From my own experience with youngsters I would say that American public schools are frightfully deficient in history and fail to separate disciplines. The lines between opinion and knowledge, fact and pop-culture, seem to be hopelessly blurred. And the pursuit of a discipline, like science or history, is rarely assigned the value it deserves aside from absorbing facts or learning a vocation.
Learning only things that others have learned is empty. The goal of any education should be to teach how to learn “new” things, even if thousands of others have learned them before. Even if it’s as simple as balancing a bank account. That’s where society as a whole seems to fail. We have misplaced the thrill of discovery.
It’s happened in ages past as well. When knowledge reaches a perceived plateau, society becomes complacent. One could make the case that once Man reached the Moon, human knowledge (Especially in the United States) stopped to catch it’s breath. Curiosity has become less revered and popular science lost much of it’s popularity.
That’s where we need to place our emphasis. We must teach our children about the limitless things which are yet to be learned and the value of, even mundane, discoveries. Musty old textbooks contain little but lists and techniques. The past is only a reference. It’s only the Living World, Today, that can teach vital lessons; if we give our children the tools to learn them.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:15 pmRandomChaos Says:
Lodi! I am in San Jose. Went to a Seminary right outside of Galt. St. Pius X, alas I am no longer a believer though.
these days who is?
*
good luck.
#
July 16th, 2008 at 9:18 pmDull knife, Flat spoon, Forked tongue
Never heard
a spoken word
that contained the truth.
Easier having
summer weather,
mid December in Duluth.
“A chicken in every pot”
a promise made loud and clear.
Standing on a podium
smiling ear to ear.
“No new taxes,
we need a change,
vote for me I’m your man.”
Female’s join in,
arm in arm,
with their rendition of the can-can.
No matter
what the sex is,
color, race or creed,
agenda hidden,
out of sight,
it’s all about their greed.
So take a listen
and watch the dance,
a dog and pony show.
It is your vote
that they want,
just watch how low they’ll go.
Useless tools
the bunch of them,
dull knife, flat spoon, forked tongue.
What is left
when all is done,
a pile of cow dung.
Poem by Ronald J. Edwards
July 16th, 2008 at 9:20 pmBTW, we MUST stop pretending that “religious education”, the anti-science movement in particular, is not a conflict in terms. Religion is the opposite of education.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:20 pmPete, Curiosity has been blunted by insecurity. We’ve overdomesticated ourselves to the point of sickness.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:24 pmHussein McCain Says:
Backup, I don’t know of any specific studies. It seems self evident to me, comparing statistics between rich and poor districts. I think most teachers will say class size effects their ability to teach- to control their class and to give individual attention. I think better pay would attract more applicants, giving a district a better chance to hire better teachers, and would also improve the morale and thus the performance of the teachers. I have friends/family who’ve taught in both well-off and poor districts, and my opinions have been largely influenced by them.
So true. Also resources are very limited and inclusion is not a good idea unless the class has extra staff. Getting an IEP is fruitless because it takes too long. The system needs to be totally automated.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:40 pmMcCain is trying to sell the same old school voucher program as “reform.” Vouchers would help few working Americans and minorities least of all. We don’t need reform that would leave public schools worse off than they were before.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
July 16th, 2008 at 9:46 pm#40 pete Says:
It’s happened in ages past as well. When knowledge reaches a perceived plateau, society becomes complacent. One could make the case that once Man reached the Moon, human knowledge (Especially in the United States) stopped to catch it’s breath. Curiosity has become less revered and popular science lost much of it’s popularity.
That’s where we need to place our emphasis. We must teach our children about the limitless things which are yet to be learned and the value of, even mundane, discoveries. Musty old textbooks contain little but lists and techniques. The past is only a reference. It’s only the Living World, Today, that can teach vital lessons; if we give our children the tools to learn them.
Good Evening Pete:) Great points. I have two teenagers, and the biggest problem I have with the school systems of today is lack of critical thinking skills and research. Which leads into many of the things you addressed in your post. When I went to school my teachers challenged us to think outside the box. Not just in one class but in many of them. My best example is in 9th grade I was taking all college prep courses one of them was speech. The teacher I had taught Freshman College Speech at the University also. (My daughter’s school did not offered this course at all) Two semester course, she would pick a topic and you would decide what to do the speech on. The last semester we had to do a thesis, you picked the topic and debate your point. I choose the Salem Witch Craft Trials, my theory was Mass Hysteria and I had to backup that theory with facts.
My point, I honed my skills in research, learned better critical thinking skills, to speak intelligently to a group of people, to debate an issue, and to put together a great presentation. Not one class in my daughters high school offers anything even remotely at this level. I was technically ready for college by 10th grade. (My parents never helped me with homework.)
The school systems of today I’m not seeing this. Plus I work at the High School helping teenagers with disabilities to learn life skills and fundamental grade appropriate studies. I mention that just in case someone thinks I haven’t seen everything they have to offer there. I have and it’s not as good as it use to be.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:55 pmrandomchaos and lawr1999. It’s possible that I’m out of touch and have no idea that Americans now need to incomes to survive. Possible.
It’s also possible that we need to reconsider what it means to survive.
Do we need a house to survive. Do we need a car to survive. Do we need a cell phone to survive. Do we need a television to survive. Do we need a computer to survive. Do we need a microwave to survive. Do we need a washing machine to survive. Etc, etc, etc.
What has happened to America, is that we have bought into the idea of new ‘necessities’. And because they are now ‘necessities’ we have mortgaged our houses or run up our credit cards to pay for necessities that aren’t really necessities at all.
You need to be able to rent a place in an area that you can afford. Buy some groceries to feed you family and some clothes from goodwill. And go to the emergency room when you’re sick if you don’t have medical coverage. That’s about it.
All the other ‘necessities’ that compel you both to work are only choices. Choices that compel you to work instead of making sure someone is at home with the kids.
I’m sure I missed a real necessity or two. I’m open to reconsideration.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:58 pmpete, I’m not sure I followed your whole comment, but I think I agree with you for the most part.
My perspective is that some of the ills of the condition of today’s education can legitimately be placed at the feet of reformers who, in the sixties and seventies, pushed for a new way to teach. It must be admitted that this movement was basically liberal, and its failures should be noted.
What I’m talking about is the push to teach ways of thinking and problem-solving without paying much attention to, as you say, history, and “facts”. I think the prejudice of the time was that rote learning of facts was a poor substitute for critical thinking, and that you didn’t need to learn facts as long as you knew how and where to look them up.
The problem with that approach is that facts are necessary to form concepts and make judgments about the world. Sure, you can overdo it, and learn facts facts facts without having any idea how to synthesize them into some coherent narrative, but that doesn’t mean facts are bad things. It’s not simply trivia if it leads to an informed opinion.
I find it quite useful to know, for instance, how the economic conditions of the 1920s led to the Great Depression, or how Reconstruction affected the South in the decades after the Civil War. because I know these things, I can more easily see how they relate to conditions today, and it also makes it more fun to learn more. Find more connections. Understand more stuff.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:59 pmAll I see is that nations with GOOD public education systems are kicking our ass when it comes to educated kids.
I don’t see McSame’s lame-ass failed pie-in-the-sky proposals doing anything to change that.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:03 pmYes, all religions. Religions are only to fill in the gaps. As science advances, there are less gaps and less need for religion.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:04 pmGoL. I must beg to differ. Resources are limited only by the priorities/greed of those who control the purse strings. Every first grader in the country could be provided with a laptop for the price of one, or two, F-22s for example. And the entire PBS library is available for free to educators.
It’s allocation of resources that is the problem.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:04 pmPerfect illustration of why our medical delivery system is as fu(ked up as it is today.
Emergency rooms are meant for emergencies. Yet they have become de facto clinics for those without health coverage. I know this because my wife has visited one for various ailments.
And backup has accepted emergency room care as a “necessity”, instead of recognizing the real necessity of affordable health coverage as a feature of personal welfare and the common good.
Sorry for going OT but I thought it should be mentioned.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:06 pmralph. excellent post. pete’s right about problem solving skills but the facts and history provide an outline for learning. To build on.
History, in particular, shows the problem solving of the past. The lesson of history is not those events in a vacuum, but their applicability to situations of the present.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:14 pmralph. I said I was open to reconsideration. Add base (government provided) medical care to my list of necessities.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:15 pmI agree, ralph. I was in school during the “new math” disaster. LOL! I was also the first generation to see tests simplified to raise test scores. As someone who raised the curve on every test I took, that ticked me off to no end.
And I don’t mean to belittle facts. I love facts and know many of them both useful and inane. But, I don’t know if I would love facts without that esoteric love of learning and logic.
I was VERY lucky in my parents and teachers. My Father taught me to read at age four, sitting on his lap after work. My Mother had been a teacher until her second child. My earliest memory is the day the new World Book Encyclopedia arrived at the door. And my teachers included hippies, communists, and WW2 vets from both sides. And I don’t think any of them ever let a fact get in the way of learning.
As you said. Facts are a tool, and our schools did go too far in de-emphasizing them. But simple memorization should not be the goal of education.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:19 pmFair enough, backup.
I just thought your comment was telling. We as a society are growing to accept those without health coverage using emergency rooms as their only source of health care.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:20 pmMcSame’s determination to divert public funds to PRIVATE (read RELIGIOUS — most of’em are) schools is a recipe for failure.
The FIRST precept for ANY religious school is “believe this crap or ELSE!”
That is, of course, antithetical to critical thought.
McSame’s solutions fit the 14th Century perfectly.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:20 pmDoes McIIIrd think Afreican Americans are stupid?
He shows up (which is probably, maybe better than him not showing up), and spews a line of complete bullshit that his voting record would deny in a heartbeat, and thinks any self respecting African American would vote against their self interest?
Yuck Foo, McIIIrd.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:22 pmjonny ~ including the Inquisition!
July 16th, 2008 at 10:22 pmEducation in America is about sports…..thus bullying and columbine.
It is also just a convenient baby sitter. It is more important to most people that the school is there to wathch thier kids when they need them to.
backup….all things cannot be adequatly solved with competition and the free market. Some thinks require real dedication and the will to invest for the future. Education and health care are a couple of those things.
ps more atheletes get breaks (not better education) for going to college than geeks.
Most schools budgets are based on their atheletic departments success sadly.
Most schools today are as one poster mentioned, manned by as many administrators as they are teachers, why, when did that happen? When they started running them like corporations.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:23 pmI agree completely, pete.
I didn’t think you were belittling facts. I know it’s easy to overlook their importance, and I think our education system went a little too far in that direction back in the day. But like you, I was lucky. My parents valued education, I had some excellent teachers, and it came easily to me.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:23 pmAfreican = African (in a world where I can spell)…Geez.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:23 pm62. Fred Says:
Education in America is about sports…..thus bullying and columbine.
_____
The firstprograms to be cut are music and the arts — the most useful tools in teaching critical thought.
A student composing a piece or making a drawing makes thousands of individual decisions — and must think them through.
How many decisions must be made to run into another guy and fall down?
July 16th, 2008 at 10:27 pmyou guys have been
working hard.
you deserve a break.
helen mirren.
•
we should all look so good
at 63.
:)
July 16th, 2008 at 10:30 pmjoe, you are so thoughtful.
I don’t know why the tolls say such mean things about you down at Troll Central.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:33 pmralph. (and Fred). I agree on the healthcare point.
Just because we haven’t had universal healthcare coverage in the past doesn’t mean that it’s not time we did. Societies evolve, just like people. It may be time to consider univeral coverage a necessity and a governmental responsibility.
But, when we consider universal healthcare, it poses many new questions. What does coverage entail? Who pays? How do we manage the system, fund it, and who runs it?
I also concede that unfettered free markets can lead to situations that are not in the best interests of the whole. Markets need some regulation.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:35 pm#66 joe cantwell Says:
you guys have been
working hard.
you deserve a break.
helen mirren.
I really like her Prime Suspect Series. She is a great actress. :)
July 16th, 2008 at 10:36 pmah backup,
we’re all in springfield
and you’re stuck in shelbyville.
$
what’s the matter,
hate girls?
#
good luck.
*
July 16th, 2008 at 10:38 pmbackup, you raise a valid point. There will be a whole host of questions about details, and some of the details will be gotten wrong, just because of the nature of “vested interests” and the game of politics.
But the first step is to recognize as a society that the profit motive is counterproductive in delivering quality health care to a population.
I think we’re getting close to taking that step.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:38 pmpete and ralph. Just an observation. you both communicate well and come across as well educated.
you also both remark that your parents valued education.
Maybe that is the determinant factor.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:39 pmbackup, you pose rhetorical questions about education and health care in America and want to do things to change it. Look around the world. Many countries are being way more sucessful than we are at both tasks.
It’s a matter of will. When the people with the will to fix things get enough power then the changes will be made if the people want them to.
Not so much republicans because they want to do completely away with public education and health care completely.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:41 pmjoe. coincidentally I just saw the ‘Queen’ movie. Almost impossible to believe she’s the same woman.
very nice.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:43 pmYo’ folks, I got a mention on Bartcop!
Imagine that.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:46 pmbackup Says:
joe. coincidentally I just saw the ‘Queen’ movie. Almost impossible to believe she’s the same woman.
very nice.
“very nice”?
how about,
“kowabunga! i just sprung
a woody the size of a
sequoia!”
*
backup, life is
passing you by.
#
good luck.
$
July 16th, 2008 at 10:48 pmI know you guys are going to tell me that there are some good public schools out there but I would counter that they are the exception rather than the rule.
Most public schools are training employees for mcdonalds, not preparing them for college.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:55 pmHas Uncle Ho been namejacked again?
July 16th, 2008 at 10:58 pmI hope he was as entertaining as Ross Perot’s “You People” speech to the NAACP.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:58 pmUncle Ho Says:
Americans don’t care about helathcare and education. They have been brainwashed by the greedy Neon Capitalists. We must educate THE PEOPLE!
ladies and gentlemen,
trajan!
(off his meds)
@
July 16th, 2008 at 11:06 pmHmmm. The mods must be asleep. G’night good people.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:16 pmYou too trolls.
#79 Fred Says:
I know you guys are going to tell me that there are some good public schools out there but I would counter that they are the exception rather than the rule.
Most public schools are training employees for mcdonalds, not preparing them for college.
Fred, it seems to me that you have to pay for your child’s education now, by sending them to private schools. The public schools are more worried if children can pass standardized tests than teaching them useful facts, theories and critical thinking skills.
I know that my daughter’s generation was less prepared than mine to enter college. Some of us started taking college classes in 11th or 12th grade. I agree with you also about schools over emphasizing sports and letting grades slide if the student is an all-star athlete.
It’s good to see you :)
July 16th, 2008 at 11:18 pmnon_prophet Says:
McCain is a racist like all Republicans. The GOP is the home of the KKK.
trajan.
:)
July 16th, 2008 at 11:19 pmCongratulations barfly!!!
July 16th, 2008 at 11:22 pmGreat discussion, all.
Just like old times on TP. :)
July 16th, 2008 at 11:22 pmgood evening Zooey :)
July 16th, 2008 at 11:23 pmHi FR,
Work is keeping me away lately. That and a vacation.
I have a bitter taste in my mouth about public education these days. We bought a second home in a good school disctrict when our kids were in school and moved there.
It was as you say a bitter change from when we went to school. As you said, when I went to public school you had a choice of 4 diploma’s to persue. General, academic, etc. but that is no longer the case, at least where we live.
This seems to be something that we could change if enough Americans would get involved for the right reasons. They generally are brushed off or offended until they get the message that no one wants to hear what they have to say…..alternative is as you say, home shool or private school.
Ironically, my new daughter in law is a teacher in the largest public school in southern LA. Cabrillo. She has been teaching only a year now and is considering a position at a private school as she says no one is interested in education where she is now, not the school or the parents.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:28 pmGot to run. Good evening zooey, fr, pete, joe and ho. You too Ralph. I miss the heat here but I’ll be back.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:33 pmEvening, Z, and all. I valued my Catholic school education, but both brothers and sister went to public school (albeit 1960s we’re talkin about) and did just fine.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:34 pmFred, it sounds like your school district sucks.
We’ve already got our five year old well ahead of the curve, she enjoys her computer “homework” we give her, as well as her free time on the computer.
She can do math without the computer when she needs to, and we’re giving her problem solving activities as well.
She starts public school kindergarten in Sept, and if she isn’t challenged by second grade, she goes to private school (not parochial)…
Good evening, Freb — and Fred. :)
Just popped in for a minute. Goodnight, all.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:36 pmFred, that doesn’t surprise me at all about your daughter-in-law. I have known several teachers that made that move and were very happy with the students at the private school. The environment is completely different also.
I know many teachers are not happy about the new books they are getting, which is not helping the problem. Others have the problem that the books are so outdated it is ridiculous.
I agree with you, we have a big problem with the education system in this country.
I hope you had a good vacation :) Have a good night Fred!!
July 16th, 2008 at 11:39 pmRUC, I tried to talk my daughter into going to a private school. I guess I should have insisted, I partially blame myself. She didn’t want to go because none of her friends could.
We do have some really good school districts in Ohio. The one I’m in use to be excellent, it has been backsliding for about 5 years now. My daughter did awesome in grade school and middle school. We started both of my teenagers out on a computer when they were about 2 1/2, they were both fascinated by it. They were both very good on the computer by the time they entered school. The high school in our district is the problem now. The courses they offer are sadly lacking.
good to see you RUC :)
July 16th, 2008 at 11:49 pm#97 non_prophet Says:
Freedom Rebel,
Think all schools should be funded at the same levels. That will go along way towards school improvement.
That would help. School districts would have the books they need, better pay for more qualified teachers and could offer courses that would give students a jump-start to college.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:54 pmEveryone have a good night!!
July 16th, 2008 at 11:58 pmFR, this tells me that backup’s statement earlier, that there doesn’t seem to be much incentive to perform, has nothing to do with teachers. Private schools generally pay teachers much less than public schools and frequently ask more of them. Yet teachers who make the switch tend to be happy with their choice.
Teachers want to teach. The difference isn’t the administration or the curriculum (well, sometimes it is), the difference most of the time is the parental support.
Agreed all, good discussion. Thanks.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:21 ambackup Says:
McCain. I’m asking this because I don’t know:
Is there evidence that more money for teachers and smaller class size in poor districts improves performance.
It’s hard to say since it hasn’t been tried. But I see no reason why more money for the schools and teachers wouldn’t improve the performance of the students. Are you implying that black children are inherently less intelligent than rich white children? Fully funded schools create better students than poorly funded schools, that’s a fact.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:34 ambackup Says:
Here’s some pro voucher argument:
I’ll tell you what backup. Why don’t we just privatize our schools. It’s worked so well in other places in our government.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:35 am#backup Says:
McCain. It would seem that more money would either help attract better teachers and/or retain them. And it also seems that smaller class sizes would promote a better learning environment.
I’m am agreeing with ralph, that an even more important factor is parental involvement. How do you generate that?
Create parents who have some hope for their children’s future and some hope for their own. Most parents in under funded school districts went to school in underfunded school districts. They never learned the joy of learning or the value of education. It’s hard to instill in your children something you don’t believe in yourself.
It’s the same as breaking the cycle of violence in a family. If you come from a family of violence, you are more likely to be violent. Break the cycle and you won’t.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:39 amralph the wonder llama Says:
Teachers want to teach. The difference isn’t the administration or the curriculum (well, sometimes it is), the difference most of the time is the parental support.
It’s not quite that simple. I agree that teachers like to teach and they have a better chance of doing it in private schools because they don’t have to contend with stupid programs like “All children left behind”. That has made a total nightmare out of teaching. Teachers today have to teach to the test. There is no real creative teaching left for them. I have two friends who have left teaching in the last couple of years because they couldn’t stand it any longer.
July 17th, 2008 at 12:42 amMcCain needs to Czech his facts.
July 17th, 2008 at 1:07 am“backup Says:
Most would agree that our public education system is lacking and our students are lagging by comparasion to the students of other countries.”
Aaahhhh yes, the standard comparison favored by those who are pro school vouchers. They never take into consideration that in this country we have a COMPULSORY education system whereas in other countries students are subjected to a series of exams to determine if they are to continue on an academic track. Thus, seniors in an academnic high school for example, in Japan, would be like students enrolled in AP or honors courses here. The “regular” and sprcial ed. students have been weeded out from academic programs by the time they reach high school in other countries.
Furthermore, under the voucher program, private schools are not subjected to the guidelines of NCLB. They do not have to give the testing required and show adequate yearly progress to receive federal funds like public schools. Thus, you have no hard data to prove these kids are actually learning at a private school.
Finally, as a previous poster mentioned, private schools take WHO THEY WANT, whereas public schools do not have that option. Do you really think Rosemary-Choate Hall is going to accept some kid from the Bronx? Essentially, the entire voucher system is designed to give upper middle class white kids a free ride at a private school
July 17th, 2008 at 7:01 am