ThinkFast: July 16, 2008
The Pentagon has announced an end to the surge in Iraq, as “the last of the five additional combat brigades sent in by President Bush last year has left the country.” But “150,000 U.S. troops remain, as many as 15,000 more than before the buildup began.” Gen. David Petraeus now begins his “45-day evaluation period” in order to “determine how many more troops he could send home.”
The Congress voted to override President Bush’s veto of a Medicare bill “aimed at forestalling an 11 percent cut in payments to doctors taking care of Medicare patients.” The House “voted 383 to 41 to override the veto, while the Senate voted 70 to 26.”
In Afghanistan, “the killing of civilians in foreign military airstrikes is shattering Afghans’ support for keeping international troops in their troubled land and driving angry young men into the arms of the Taliban.” A spokesperson for NATO explained, “There is a perception problem.”
President Bush tried to “calm consumers” troubled by the economy, “but his words had little effect.” By the end of the day on Tuesday, “the Dow had closed at its lowest level in two years,” and “the government reported that prices had jumped at their sharpest pace in 27 years.”
On the trail today: Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) will be at Purdue University in West Lafayette, IN, discussing emerging national security issues at a Summit on Confronting 21st Century Threats. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) will be attending a fundraiser in Ashland, NE, and will be addressing the NAACP’s annual convention in Cincinnati, OH.
Secretary of Defense Robert Gates warned yesterday against “creeping militarization.” He argued that the military option should be subordinate to diplomacy because “we cannot kill or capture our way to victory.”
The Massachusetts State Senate “voted swiftly and unanimously yesterday to strike down a 95-year-old law that blocks gay and lesbian couples from…being married” there. If the repeal passes the State House and is signed by the Governor, Massachusetts will become the second state “to allow gay and lesbian couples to marry regardless of their place of residence.”
“Merrill Lynch has warned that the United States could face a foreign ‘financing crisis’ within months as the full consequences of the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgage debacle spread through the world.”
Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) is in trouble with his “GOP colleagues” who complain that “his stalling tactics on the Senate floor have gone too far.” DeMint recently scheduled and then missed a vote on President Bush’s global AIDS program, tried to delay the housing bill and has previously tried to “block an immigration measure and a bill to beef up lobbying and ethics rules.”
And Finally: The Lion of the Senate, Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA), is the subject of a new ballad by his conservative colleague from Utah, Sen. Orin Hatch (R-UT). Hatch, who has “written hundreds of songs on patriotic themes - with such titles as ‘Freedom’s Light’ and ‘I Love Old Glory,’” wrote the song as a tribute to “Kennedy’s heroic return to the Senate.” The ode may be played at next month’s Democratic convention “as a living example of a brotherhood that transcends party lines.”
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
Day of Reckoning? Super Rich Tax Cheats Outed by Bank Clerk
Technician in Liechtenstein Turns Over Names of Americans With Secret Bank Accounts
Hundreds of super-rich American tax cheats have, in effect, turned themselves in to the IRS after a bank computer technician in the tiny European country of Liechtenstein came forward with the names of US citizens who had set up secret accounts there, according to Washington lawyers investigating the scheme.
The bank clerk, Heinrich Kieber, has been branded a thief by the government of Liechtenstein for violating the country’s bank secrecy laws. He is now in hiding but scheduled to testify to the Senate’s Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations Thursday via a video statement from a secret location, according to Congressional investigators.
Kieber reportedly sold three CD’s full of names and data to tax authorities to 12 countries including Germany, Great Britain, France, Italy and the United States. Tax authorities in Italy published the full list of names.
In Germany, the disclosures led to the arrests of several prominent CEO’s on charges that had evaded millions of dollars in taxes. A former UBS private banker, Bradley Birkenfeld, has agreed to a plea deal and is reported to be cooperating with US authorities in bring charges against American citizens on tax evasion charges. The Liechtenstein bank, LGT, is owned by the tiny country’s ruling family led by Prince Hans-Adam II.
http://abcnews.go.com/ Blotter/ story?id=5378080&page=1
I hope the IRS nails them to the wall. It’s about time they get an illegal loophole taken away.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:04 amFirst U.S. Town Powered Completely By Wind
Rock Port, Mo., has an unusual crop: wind turbines. The four turbines that supply electricity to the small town of 1,300 residents make it the first community in the United States to operate solely on wind power.
“That’s something to be very proud of, especially in a rural area like this — that we’re doing our part for the environment,” said Jim Crawford, a natural resource engineer at the University of Missouri Extension in Columbia.
A map published by the U.S. Department of Energy indicates that northwest Missouri has the state’s highest concentrations of wind resources and contains a number of locations that are potentially suitable for utility-scale wind development. The four turbines that power Rock Port are part of a larger set of 75 turbines across three counties that are used to harvest the power of wind.
http://www.livescience.com/ environment/ 080715-wind-powered-town.html
“Anyone using the Rock Port utilities can expect no increase for the next 15 to 20 years.” This should be the model for many small rural towns across the country. Kudos to Rock Port, hopefully this technology picks up so that improvements can be made for even better efficiency.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:06 amAt the Uneasy Intersection of Bloggers and the Law
There is no better way to get a blogger talking than by telling him what he cannot publish — although you might forgive a government prosecutor for thinking otherwise.
A grand jury subpoena sent by prosecutors in the Bronx earlier this year sought information to help identify people blogging anonymously on a Web site about New York politics called Room 8.
The subpoena carried a warning in capital letters that disclosing its very existence “could impede the investigation being conducted and thereby interfere with law enforcement” — implying that if the bloggers blabbed, they could be prosecuted.
“We were totally perplexed,” said Ben Smith, who co-founded Room 8 with Gur Tsabar. (The site calls itself an “imaginary neighbor” to the press room — Room 9 — in City Hall in New York.) The two promptly began looking for a lawyer. “We knew enough to be scared.”
This, of course, is a blogger’s nightmare: enforced silence and the prospect of jail time. The district attorney eventually withdrew the subpoena and lifted the gag requirement after the bloggers threatened to sue. But the fact that the tactic was used at all raised alarm bells for some free speech advocates.
The demand for secrecy raised the unnerving prospect that prosecutors could quietly investigate anyone who posts comments online, while the person making those comments is unaware of and unable to respond to the risk. The tactic also robs bloggers of one of their most powerful weapons: the chance to spread the word and turn the legal attack into an online cause célèbre.
snip
Some of the people blogging on the Room 8 site are named, but many choose to be anonymous. Mr. Smith said he called the assistant district attorney in the Bronx who had issued the subpoena to try to find out more about why prosecutors wanted the Internet Protocol, or I.P. address, of the person who blogged under the name Republican Dissident. But the prosecutors would not share any information, he said.
An I.P. address, together with the date and time of an online comment, can help identify the computer used to make that comment.
Mr. Smith said he was not opposed to helping prosecutors in all cases. “Was somebody found face-down on their keyboard and the I.P. address was going to help identify the killer?” he said. “We’re not free speech absolutists here.”
snip
“They refused to go anyplace and tell me, what are they investigating, why is this speech relevant,” Mr. Levy said. Prosecutors also opposed posting a note on the blog announcing the subpoena, though they eventually permitted Room 8 to try to send an e-mail message in May to Republican Dissident about it. No one answered, but by then, Republican Dissident had already deleted all of his or her posts from the Room 8 site.
“Generally, people post anonymously sometimes for a good reason, sometimes it’s for a bad reason,” Mr. Levy said.
“We argue for a balancing test,” he continued. “Let the discovery be had when there’s a good reason for it.”
http://www.nytimes.com/ 2008/ 07/ 15/ technology/ 15law.htm
**Asking for the identity of anonymous bloggers by insisting log founders provide IP addresses and threatening them with arrest and prosecution if they disclosed the subpoena is nothing short of strong-arm Gestapo tactics. I know that the “press” (or in this case bloggers) and law enforcement have butted heads for years over what lines may or may not be crossed but I am afraid that the current condition of our loss of constitutional rights is going to really turn up the heat. We better make sure we get Obama elected and that he will make sure he appoints Supreme Court justices who will support the constitution. If we don’t our constitutional rights will become a distant memory.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:06 amAn Air Car You Could See in 2009: ZPM’s 106 MPG Compressed-Air Hybrid
Compressed-Air Powered cars could take you over 800 miles on a single fill-up, at speeds of up to 96 mph. They should refuel in less than 3 minutes, and at speeds over 35 mph emit about half the CO2 of a Toyota Prius. Best part? You could see them in the US at the end of next year.
Car-tech aficionados may already be familiar with Zero Pollution Motor’s (ZPM) compressed-air powered car. For those that haven’t heard of it yet, read on:
“The compressed air vehicle is a new generation of vehicle that finally solves the motorist’s dilemma: how to drive and not pollute at a cost that is affordable!”
What happens when you replace the explosions in your car’s combustion chamber with clean compressed air? Well, as long as you lighten things up by replacing heavier parts with aluminum, you end up with a clean, efficient way to power a vehicle.
http://gas2.org/ 2008/ 07/ 15/ an-air-car-you-could-see-in-2009-zpms-106-mpg-compressed-air-hybrid/
1 tank of air + 8 gallons of gas = 848 mile range, half the CO2 emissions of a Prius and the car will retail at under $15,000. This is great news and it’s affordable.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:08 amThe Congress voted to override President Bush’s veto of a Medicare bill “aimed at forestalling an 11 percent cut in payments to doctors taking care of Medicare patients.” The House “voted 383 to 41 to override the veto, while the Senate voted 70 to 26.”
I’d be impressed if I didn’t already know that many of those voting against the veto are up for re-election in November, and that they know that a vote against overriding the veto would be the kiss of death.
Would be nice to see them do the same for general healthcare, alternative energy, education, etc., etc., etc. but I won’t hold my breath.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:08 amPresident Bush tried to “calm consumers” troubled by the economy, “but his words had little effect.” By the end of the day on Tuesday, “the Dow had closed at its lowest level in two years,” and “the government reported that prices had jumped at their sharpest pace in 27 years.”
Nice and sympatheic speech there Hitler. I’m sure the folks in your concentration camps are relieved now…
July 16th, 2008 at 9:10 amFreedom Rebel Says:
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Day of Reckoning? Super Rich Tax Cheats Outed by Bank Clerk
Good morning, FR. I would love to see the list of names! Wish there were members of the current Bush crime family who were brave enough to step forward and speak out as well. I know what he did was lawbreaking, but this is one of the few times that 2 wrongs DO make a right! Thaks for the post.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:10 amIn Afghanistan, “the killing of civilians in foreign military airstrikes is shattering Afghans’ support for keeping international troops in their troubled land and driving angry young men into the arms of the Taliban.” A spokesperson for NATO explained, “There is a perception problem.”
Yeah, the perception of the US and NATO forces as an occupying band of infidels is a real perception problem…
July 16th, 2008 at 9:10 amPresident Bush tried to “calm consumers” troubled by the economy, “but his words had little effect.” By the end of the day on Tuesday, “the Dow had closed at its lowest level in two years,” and “the government reported that prices had jumped at their sharpest pace in 27 years.”
If only we understood chympgibberish we’d be better off, psychologically, that is.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:11 am“Merrill Lynch has warned that the United States could face a foreign ‘financing crisis’ within months as the full consequences of the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgage debacle spread through the world.”
The beginning of the end of Capitalism….
July 16th, 2008 at 9:12 amFreedom Rebel Says: Hundreds of super-rich American tax cheats have, in effect, turned themselves in to the IRS after a bank computer technician in the tiny European country of Liechtenstein came forward with the names of US citizens who had set up secret accounts there, according to Washington lawyers investigating the scheme.
Can’t wait to see how the trolls try to spin this one. We’ve been telling them for years that the richest Americans don’t pay taxes like the rest of us. Seems that they aren’t paying them at all…
July 16th, 2008 at 9:14 am#7 And the beat goes on Says:
Freedom Rebel Says:
——————————————————————————–
Day of Reckoning? Super Rich Tax Cheats Outed by Bank Clerk
Good morning, FR. I would love to see the list of names! Wish there were members of the current Bush crime family who were brave enough to step forward and speak out as well. I know what he did was lawbreaking, but this is one of the few times that 2 wrongs DO make a right! Thaks for the post.
Good Morning and the beat goes on :) I want the list also. Hopefully they will publish it like they did in Italy. They should be shamed publically for what they did. Not to mention all the years that this has been going on. It will be interesting I agree to see if any of the Bush Family or even Cheney is on the list. That would cause one hell of an uproar considering all the money he has already made off of Halliburton.
Have a good day!!
July 16th, 2008 at 9:18 amIn Afghanistan, “the killing of civilians in foreign military airstrikes is shattering Afghans’ support for keeping international troops in their troubled land and driving angry young men into the arms of the Taliban.” A spokesperson for NATO explained, “There is a perception problem.”
_____________________________________________________________
I think that if foreign military airstrikes were killing civilians here in the United States, it would be far more than a mere “perception problem” — we’d be mad as h*ll. Why are we surprised that the Afghans have a problem with this?
July 16th, 2008 at 9:20 amDueling Bible Theme Parks in Tennessee
What is funnier than the idea of a bible theme park? How about two of them competing against each other to attract Christian families with more disposable income than sense? That would do it. According to UPI, this appears to be the situation developing in Nashville, TN, as The Holy Land Experience is planning to expand their presence in the area while Bible Park USA is trying to buy land nearby.
According to the UPI article,
“This is not a good time to be opening theme parks,” said Dennis Spiegel, president of International Theme Park Services Inc., an industry consulting firm. “And history has shown us that Bible theme parks just haven’t done well.”
Bible theme parks have not done well? I just don’t understand this one bit. I mean, what child doesn’t grow up thinking of the Christian bible as a fun time for all?
http://www.atheistrev.com/
July 16th, 2008 at 9:20 am“He’s quick, he’s funny, he makes me lots of money, Lichtenstein! Lichtenstein!”
~Chaucer from “A Knight’s Tale”
Looks like some tax cheats are going to get fonged…
July 16th, 2008 at 9:21 am#11 unbelievable Says:
Freedom Rebel Says: Hundreds of super-rich American tax cheats have, in effect, turned themselves in to the IRS after a bank computer technician in the tiny European country of Liechtenstein came forward with the names of US citizens who had set up secret accounts there, according to Washington lawyers investigating the scheme.
Can’t wait to see how the trolls try to spin this one. We’ve been telling them for years that the richest Americans don’t pay taxes like the rest of us. Seems that they aren’t paying them at all…
Good Morning :) I know what you mean unbelievable. This week they tried to justify torture now it’s going to be not paying taxes like the rest of us. They are grasping at straws to get people to listen them. At times it can be entertaining. It has proved to be an interesting summer, definitely not boring.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:26 amGosh, Swiss bank UBS seems to be caught up in a tax shelter scandal just like LGT. Doesn’t Phil Gramm work for UBS? Can’t wait for the U.S. media to make that connection (yeah, right).
July 16th, 2008 at 9:26 amThe alternative energy production tax credit is set to expire Dec 31, 2008. An extension for this credit has been filibustered in the House by Republicans twice in June alone. (I still haven’t figured out how Repubs can do this but Dems can’t) Anyway, it has expired a couple of times over the last decade even though it was eventually renewed. These gaps in the credit make it difficult for companies working on alt energy. The other day I heard an NPR story about a new company with a working idea for a thermal storage for solar energy which, despite much interest, is now gearing down rather than up because of uncertainty about the fate of the credit.
http://www.npr.org/ templates/ story/ story.php?storyId=92342742
http://newenergynews.blogspot.com/ 2007/ 09/ solar-on-verge-of-solving-storage.html
http://www.hillheat.com/ articles/ 2008/ 06/ 18/ republicans-filibuster-renewable-tax-credit-legislation-again
July 16th, 2008 at 9:27 amPresident Bush tried to “calm consumers” troubled by the economy, “but his words had little effect.”
______________________________________________________________
Yeah — just like I’m sure the French proletariat was impressed by anything Marie Antoinette had to say, too.
The people are hurting. They are trying to hold onto their houses, fill their gas tanks, cling to their jobs, keep from being hungry despite food budgets that stretch less and less, and stay healthy with no health insurance. And this gets harder and harder to do.
They are tired of being told they are whiners and that their problems are all in their head. They don’t want “psychological” fixes. They want leadership that truly understands their problems instead of the “living inside the bubble” people who are in charge now.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:28 ammisshusseinmolly Says: I think that if foreign military airstrikes were killing civilians here in the United States, it would be far more than a mere “perception problem” — we’d be mad as h*ll. Why are we surprised that the Afghans have a problem with this?
You’re right. This is terrorism. And it’s the very same thing we are still mourning from 9/11.
But, you know that Republicans don’t recognize them as ‘humans’, so this ‘collateral damage’ is acceptable. To them, it’s only the lily white people who share their DNA that deserve to be defended - everyone else is just fair game… Ridiculous.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:29 amMassachusetts will become the second state “to allow gay and lesbian couples to marry regardless of their place of residence.”
_________________________________________________________
And heterosexual marriages all over will break up as a result. After all, Canada legalized gay marriage throughout their entire country, so heterosexual marriage there should be completely destroyed — right?
/snark off
July 16th, 2008 at 9:31 amunbelievable #14
If one of the Bible Parks fails will it be branded as a heretic and burned at the stake?
July 16th, 2008 at 9:32 amThis is a little misleading. The law was originally passed to prevent out of state inter-racial couples from coming into the state to marry. While it affected gay marriages, preventng them was not the intent of the law.
However, I do agree the removal of the law is a good thing and other states will now have to deal with legal marriages performed in MA.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:33 amBoth chambers of Congress over-rode Bush’s veto of cutting Medicare payments yesterday.
On of 2 things will happen; 1) Bush will claim he was against the cuts in the first place..2) Bush will issue a signing statement and will proceed with the cuts anyway.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:34 amdid anyone see/hear the 3 financial professionals on the today show this a.m.? each gave 3 “solutions” - guessing those solution were directed at investors and market players…
but then, i’m no fincial professional…
July 16th, 2008 at 9:34 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
——————————————————————————–
President Bush tried to “calm consumers” troubled by the economy, “but his words had little effect.”
______________________________________________________________
Yeah — just like I’m sure the French proletariat was impressed by anything Marie Antoinette had to say, too.
Don’t forget that huge energy saving suggestion from Bush — turn off the air conditioner when you’re not at home! I don’t think I can take much more of this — I’m ready to run down the street, screaming at the top of my lungs, with my hair on fire!
July 16th, 2008 at 9:35 amThe Lion of the Senate, Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA), is the subject of a new ballad by his conservative colleague from Utah, Sen. Orin Hatch (R-UT).
__________________________________________________________
Kennedy and Hatch have always had a great respect for each other as legislators, even though their political views are almost polar opposites. Because of this respect, they have managed to work together, communicate with each other, and generally behave the way I wish ALL our elected officials would.
These two are a welcome change from the childish partisan obstructionism that has become “business as usual” in the Senate.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:37 ampaleolib Says: If one of the Bible Parks fails will it be branded as a heretic and burned at the stake?
LOL
If the commercialization of Christmas weren’t enough, I’m sure Jesus would be proud to have become a theme park mascot generating cold hard cash just like Mickey, Donald and Goofy…
July 16th, 2008 at 9:37 amSen. John McCain (R-AZ) … will be addressing the NAACP’s annual convention in Cincinnati, OH.
________________________________________________
Think he will impress non-white Americans as much as he has impressed women?
July 16th, 2008 at 9:41 amAre Obama And McCain Ebbing Or Flowing?
About a week ago, Republican media specialist Alex Castellanos asked pollster Scott Rasmussen to add a question to one of his surveys: If the November election were between Barack Obama and George W. Bush, who would you vote for? Obama crushed Bush 54-34.
Noting that tracking polls generally show just a 2 to 4 point edge for Obama over John McCain, Castellanos said the most obvious conclusion is that “McCain is not Bush.” But more importantly, Castellanos argued, “It means McCain is not running against the Obama who won Iowa, but [against] the more polarizing Democrat [who] Hillary Clinton was beating like a drum in Texas, Kentucky, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, etc.”
Bob Beckel, who managed Walter F. Mondale’s 1984 campaign, argues that Obama has lost his edge because he has started to follow the advice of political consultants - like Beckel himself:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ 2008/ 07/ 15/ are-obama-and-mccain-ebbi_n_112972.html
July 16th, 2008 at 9:43 amSen. McCain, “What’s with all the colored folk? I thought this was the North American Alliance of Conservative People convention. Hurry up Lieberman, get me a towel so I can wipe off this black-face I put on for my opening bit.”
July 16th, 2008 at 9:46 amIn Afghanistan, “the killing of civilians in foreign military airstrikes is shattering Afghans’ support for keeping international troops in their troubled land and driving angry young men into the arms of the Taliban.” A spokesperson for NATO explained, “There is a perception problem.”
When you kill women and child going to Wedding Parties that is going to cause alot of anger. The fact that at least one bride was killed before the wedding took place is unbelievable. Forget about “perceptions” and start dealing in hard cold facts. The military airstrikes are adding to the problem instead of fixing it. With international troops like that, who needs enemeies?
July 16th, 2008 at 9:47 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 9:20 am
missmolly,
read the entire article, as ThinkProgress’s blurb is misleading. The article goes on to note that the Taliban have killed far more civilians, but when the Taliban kill people in terrorist attacks, the Afghan public still blames the US. If the Afghani’s are going to blame the US for the actions of the Taliban, what incentive does the Taliban have to stop killing civilians in the first place?
July 16th, 2008 at 9:49 amyou can find that segment here: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/#
scan the ‘Video from TODAY’ selections and choose
Video: Experts’ economic solutions
.
check out the latest Jib Jab video there also… funny!
July 16th, 2008 at 9:55 amWhite House loses appeal to keep visitor logs secret
By Jason Leopold
The White House lost an appeal to keep secret visitor logs containing the identities of evangelical Christian leaders who visited the White House and Vice President Dick Cheney’s home, according to an opinion issued Friday by a federal appeals court.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit rejected the Bush administration’s claims that Secret Service visitor logs are the property of President George W. Bush and are not subject to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests. The White House assumed control of the visitor logs when watchdog groups and the media sought access to the files.
The panel of three appeals court judges essentially upheld a December decision by a U.S. District Court judge who said the visitor logs were public documents subject to the FOIA. They sent the case back to District Court Judge Royce Lamberth for consideration
“At that point, the court may agree with the agency, allowing it to withhold the requested records, in which case the government would have no cause to appeal,” says the appeals court’s opinion.
http://onlinejournal.com/ artman/ publish/ article_3500.shtml
**I am sure those logs, in the meantime, won’t be “accidentally” damaged or misplaced in the meantime. /snark off
July 16th, 2008 at 9:55 am#17 paleolib Says:
Gosh, Swiss bank UBS seems to be caught up in a tax shelter scandal just like LGT. Doesn’t Phil Gramm work for UBS? Can’t wait for the U.S. media to make that connection (yeah, right).
That is a great point paleolib. With Gramm being the Vice-Chairman of UBS he may have to slink into the woodwork. But you are probably right the media will probably give McCain’s campaign economic guru a free pass on scrutiny.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:00 am30. unbelievable Says:
Are Obama And McCain Ebbing Or Flowing?
…Bob Beckel, who managed Walter F. Mondale’s 1984 campaign, argues that Obama has lost his edge because he has started to follow the advice of political consultants - like Beckel himself:
Or it coulda been Obama completely caving to the telecoms and voting for telecom immunity, simultaneously concealing the crimes of the biggest war criminal in US history.
After, of course, a hefty payday from the telecoms here…and here…and here, from the telecoms.
Voters don’t like being sold-out.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:00 amHmm… let’s take out Barr and see how Nader alone would affect the race? Oh — looky here — that hurts Obama!
Nader finds the most support with women (5%), weekly Wal-Mart shoppers (6%), those age 18 to 24 (6%), and those living in Western states (6%).
Women… young voters… western states… those sound like groups with which Obama does well.
Does jabberjaw really think we’d believe that support for Nader doesn’t draw votes from Obama?
July 16th, 2008 at 10:07 amSen. John McCain (R-AZ) … will be addressing the NAACP’s annual convention in Cincinnati, OH.
Another wasted day on the campaign trail. I bet the flip flops will be at epic proportion.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:08 am#35 And the beat goes on Says:
White House loses appeal to keep visitor logs secret
By Jason Leopold
**I am sure those logs, in the meantime, won’t be “accidentally” damaged or misplaced in the meantime. /snark off
They can blame on a new intern that didn’t know what they were shredding.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:10 amBob Beckel, who managed Walter F. Mondale’s 1984 campaign
There’s a success story.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:10 amralph the wonder llama Says:
Nader finds the most support with women (5%), weekly Wal-Mart shoppers (6%), those age 18 to 24 (6%), and those living in Western states (6%).
July 16th, 2008 at 10:07 am
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Whoa whoa whoa - weekly Wal-Mart shoppers? So among the groups that support the anti-Wal-Mart crusader most are people who frequently shop at Wal-Mart?
Makes me wonder how he does among Pinto drivers.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:13 amDueling Bible Theme Parks in Tennessee
Oh rapture! oh joy! Oh thank you unbelievable!
Oh boy! Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy!
My mind is reeling with the possibilities.
In the competition for shekels (or ‘pieces of silver’) each park is going to have to ‘one-up’ the other in its attractions. The obvious route for both parks is to emphasize the violence and the sex (both of ‘which Real Christians’ love to pretend to hate) in their displays and dioramas. Luckily there’s plenty of both in the Bible.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:13 amSen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) is in trouble with his “GOP colleagues” who complain that “his stalling tactics on the Senate floor have gone too far.”
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Hard to believe that the Republicans actually have limits on obstructionism. DeMint must have blocked something important to them.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:13 amI ALWAYS support Nader, not the person, but the avatar that rubs our noses in our stupid, moronic, well-taught complacency.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:14 amI notice that the MSM didn’t bother to mention the Medicare veto or override. Too busy with with the New Yorker cover and the Brangelina twins.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:19 amtokin librul Says:
I ALWAYS support Nader, not the person, but the avatar that rubs our noses in our stupid, moronic, well-taught complacency.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:14 am
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Agreed - I like Nader the rabble-rouser and consumer advocate. I don’t like Nader the candidate.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:22 amhanshiro Says: Or it coulda been Obama completely caving to the telecoms and voting for telecom immunity, simultaneously concealing the crimes of the biggest war criminal in US history.
I think the two are related. Obama was against FISA until he became the presumptive nominee and hired former Clinton advisers.
What I don’t get is how such a brilliant man is making such a stupid mistake. What he was doing was working - across the board. It makes no sense to then go and do the opposite.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:22 amI like Nader the consumer advocate, but if he runs again I’m sticking a fork in the toaster.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:26 amunity!
Hillary Clinton launches fundraising for 2012 already!
July 16th, 2008 at 10:27 amLos Angeles Times - 2 hours ago
Just six weeks after reluctantly surrendering to Barack Obama in the brutal 2008 Democratic primary race, Sen. Hillary Clinton has begun raising money for what she says is her 2012 New York Senate re-election campaign.
Clinton Not Eager To Send Back Cash Washington Post
Hillary Clinton shuffling her leftover campaign cash New York Daily News
New York Sun - Huffington Post - NewsChannel 9 WSYR - Politico
5th Estate Says: The obvious route for both parks is to emphasize the violence and the sex (both of ‘which Real Christians’ love to pretend to hate) in their displays and dioramas. Luckily there’s plenty of both in the Bible.
I’ve read the Catholic version of the bible(s) and I can’t imagine how anyone could get anything ‘amusement’ related out of that book. Might explain why they don’t do very well.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:28 amLast time we started posting pro-abortion bible quotes jabberjaw left the thread…
Here you go jabberjaw:
Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?
Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.
Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.
Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.
2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?
July 16th, 2008 at 10:31 amHanshiro, if you click on “Senators” in you links Hillary Clinton got the most money except in the last one. Funny they didn’t put her on the “Candidates” list. My point is either way we were screwed.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:41 amthe Senate voted 70 to 26
There are clearly some Republican Senators running for re-election who are worried about their prospects. As well they should be. What is sad is that the vote would have been very different if they weren’t worried. We really do need to make the Obstructionist Republicans a permanent majority so we can retake our country.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:41 amPresident Bush tried to “calm consumers” troubled by the economy, “but his words had little effect.”
His words had little affect because he said little. Mostly it was that damn magic wand that he lost. Without it, he can’t help us.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:43 amJabberjaw:
You are not fooling anyone but yourself when you accuse Shayne of being Darryl. It’s obvious to all but the brain dead who and what Daryll is and your little game has reduced what little credibility you have here to zero.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:47 am56. Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
Hey dildo, how’s that plate of crow taste? Oh, and “STFU” right back atcha!
July 16th, 2008 at 10:48 amThat’s great JJ, now that I know about it I can go look for it. But before TP posted it I hadn’t heard. So I wouldn’t know to look for it would I, Einstein.
Then again, you expect me to believe anything you say? You just got busted for fudging your Nader figures didn’t you. And you LIE to everybody telling them I’m Daryll.
And for the record, NOBODY her really cares who you’re voting for or who you like. And that’s pretty much true for all LYING TROLLS>
July 16th, 2008 at 10:48 amIt looks like Daryll and JJ might be sharing their bible.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:53 amOh, and BTW unbelievable, most of the passages you referenced were references to what the Muslim invaders were going to do to the Jews
Jabberjaw is an expert in alternative realities and has just rewritten the history of Islam, moving it’s creation back quite a few centuries.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:55 amhate_america Says
July 16th, 2008 at 10:45 am
“Sometimes, when I look at my children, I say to myself, ‘Lillian, you should have remained a virgin.’” –
Jimmy Carter
_________________________________________________________
In the first place, that quote comes from Lillian Carter, not Jimmy Carter.
In the second place, what’s your point?
July 16th, 2008 at 10:55 amShayne Says:
It looks like Daryll and JJ might be sharing their bible.
lol!
:)
July 16th, 2008 at 10:55 amShayne Says:
It looks like Daryll and JJ might be sharing their bible.
Good Morning Shayne :) It’s a good bonding moment for them.
Nice to see you!!
July 16th, 2008 at 10:57 amShayne Says:
It looks like Daryll and JJ might be sharing their bible.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Sticky pages and all….
July 16th, 2008 at 10:57 amI know that the “press” (or in this case bloggers) and law enforcement have butted heads for years over what lines may or may not be crossed but I am afraid that the current condition of our loss of constitutional rights is going to really turn up the heat. We better make sure we get Obama elected and that he will make sure he appoints Supreme Court justices who will support the constitution. If we don’t our constitutional rights will become a distant memory.
But..but… My ego demands that I vote for Ralph Nader or Cynthia McKinney because it won’t allow me to vote for someone who isn’t perfect in my mind. That trumps everything.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:57 amFudging facts is JJ’s field of expertise. That’s how we know he’s a Republican pretending to be an independent.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:58 amStickier than usual because yesterday I told Daryll where to stick his bible, again, and as usual he disappeared to do the deed.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:59 ampoor jj,
the republican
troll is outed.
*
thank you.
#
July 16th, 2008 at 11:01 amjj,
next subject?
+
good luck.
*
July 16th, 2008 at 11:02 am“Secretary of Defense Robert Gates warned yesterday against “creeping militarization.” He argued that the military option should be subordinate to diplomacy because “we cannot kill or capture our way to victory.”
Damn. What a concept, and this coming from one of Dubya’s puppets. Off with his head.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:04 amralph already addresses your assertions JJ. And unlike you, ralph is the kind of poster we can trust and respect. In fact he’s your polar opposite.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:04 am#hanshiro Says:
Or it coulda been Obama completely caving to the telecoms and voting for telecom immunity, simultaneously concealing the crimes of the biggest war criminal in US history.
After, of course, a hefty payday from the telecoms here…and here…and here, from the telecoms.
Voters don’t like being sold-out.
The problem with your scenario is that those donations didn’t come from the telecom industry, they came from people who work in the telecom industry. You know, if I worked for the phone company and when I made an on-line donation to Obama I put “Pacific Bell” in my employer’s space, then I am counted in that number.
Until you can prove that money came directly from the telecoms to Obama, I will continue to believe that he didn’t take any money directly from them. If that had happened, it would be all over the news.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:06 amjabberjaw Says:
unbelievable was quoting from Old Testament books written by Jews about Jewish history. Hence, in those books, the Jews were losing their land to Muslim invaders. I’m sure the Islam version of the same stories is much different.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:00 am
______
The Old Testament was written between 1200 and 200 BC. Muslims didn’t exist until 610 AD. Are you suggesting that Muslims are time-travellers?
July 16th, 2008 at 11:07 amjj,
gotcha.
:)
thank you.
*
July 16th, 2008 at 11:07 am#hanshiro Says:
56. Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
Hey dildo, how’s that plate of crow taste? Oh, and “STFU” right back atcha!
And what would that “taste of crow” be?
July 16th, 2008 at 11:07 amoops…forgot to include this in my comment about Obama taking money from the telecom industry. It’s the disclaimer at the bottom:
July 16th, 2008 at 11:08 amGreg Kafoury at votenader.org/blog has a post titled “We Welcome Disillusioned Obama Supporter” (dated July 9).
It’s a direct address to pissed-off Obama voters.
That’s why you spend so much time here isn’t it, JJ?
Gregory writes: “Today, 14% of voters say they would support Nader if he was competitive.”
Some disgruntled Democrats would sure help Nader get from 6^ to 14% , wouldn’t they? Especially the naive newbies that Obama has attracted?
But that’s okay, now you’re playing politics, not piety! That’s the way to do it! But…OMG…Nader and Naderites are totally AGAINST political games, aren’t they? Ralph and the Ralphettes are ABOVE all that, right? Hmmm…apparently not!
Gregory also writes: “Those most impressed with Nader are those who have known him the longest. He will never flatter you, never pander to you, never betray you.”
Seems to me there’s a bit of pandering to disappointment going on here. As for betrayal, Nader was financed by GOP money in 2004—small change to the Republicans but a big help to Nader.
I haven’t seen any Democrats commenting on the Nader blog thus far trying to recruit Naderites. I guess it’s a one way-street.
I’ll quote Gregory again: “14% of voters say they would support Nader if he was competitive.”
For this campaign at least the Nader campaign is clearly making a real effort to reduce the Democratic vote through opportunistic exploitation. That is how the game is played, but as the quote illustrates even if Nader got 14%–he still wouldn’t get to be President—but McCain would! And he isn’t going to listen to Nader.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:12 am“Well then I guess I stand corrected and the Promised Land must belong to Isreal since by your definition, the Jews were there before Muslims ever existed because “Muslim’s didn’t exist until 610 AD.” Now I guess they can stop fighting. You just solved everything.”
—-
Tell that the aboriginal peoples throughout the world who have had land jacked by new comers through the ages
July 16th, 2008 at 11:13 amunbelievable Says:
What I don’t get is how such a brilliant man is making such a stupid mistake. What he was doing was working - across the board. It makes no sense to then go and do the opposite.
Unfortunately Obama caved to the notion that if he didn’t support the FISA bill he would be branded as soft on terrorism. The sad thing is they are still branding him as soft on terrorism AND they now have a legitimate talking point that Obama can’t be trusted to keep his promises. Too bad he didn’t think a little further before he made that big mistake.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:13 ambusted for about the 5th time on this thread…..the jews never owned any land fool. They have only ruled themselves twice throughout history. Once under king david and his son and then in 1948.
get a life or get with something unfamiliar to you….facts.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:15 amJabberjaw:
Would you please ask Trajan to respond to my post at TPWW?
WINK
July 16th, 2008 at 11:15 amThat’s a good one JJ, the Pharoah were Muslims before 1500 BC. Priceless.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:16 amjabberjaw Says:
Well then I guess I stand corrected and the Promised Land must belong to Isreal since by your definition, the Jews were there before Muslims ever existed because “Muslim’s didn’t exist until 610 AD.” Now I guess they can stop fighting. You just solved everything.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:11 am
_______
You are aware that Islam is a religion, not an ethnic group, right? It’s really not a matter of opinion - the Quraan was dictated to Muhammad between 610 and 632 AD, and this became the basis of Islam. People who follow Islam are known as Muslims. There were no Muslims before 610 AD for the same reason that there were no Christians before 4 BC.
Now, if you are referring to the Old Testament’s depiction of the fights between the Hebrews and neighboring Assyrians, Canaanites, Philistines, and Hittites, you are correct. However, none of these other tribes were Muslim at the time.
You can continue to dispute it if you want, but it’s a pretty basic historical fact.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:18 amjj,
interesting song,
how long did it
take you to write it?
$
is there an album in the works too?
*
good luck.
#
July 16th, 2008 at 11:18 amjabberjaw Says: Oh, and BTW unbelievable, most of the passages you referenced were references to what the Muslim invaders were going to do to the Jews, supposedly because they turned away from their God. It had nothing to do with abortion, but that’s just my two cents worth. Next subject?
Your two cents is wrong, yet again. But what amuses me most is your need to post this after you just said that you don’t care about the bible(s). LOL.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:19 amCome on hanshiro, you threw down the gauntlet, what am I supposed to “eat crow” about?
What’s the matter, did I prove you wrong and now you are hiding?
July 16th, 2008 at 11:21 amjj says the Iranian muslims are a problem.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:22 amjabberjaw Says: Well then I guess I stand corrected and the Promised Land must belong to Isreal since by your definition, the Jews were there before Muslims ever existed because “Muslim’s didn’t exist until 610 AD.” Now I guess they can stop fighting. You just solved everything.
Told you you were wrong… Not that us telling you that daily about the Republican party ever matters.
Unfortunately, you need to be educated on Middle Eastern culture and its history. Israel didn’t exist until after WWII when it was created for the Jews. 1947, I believe.
Now, go read something educational and stop bothering us with your ignorance.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:24 amOn the contrary jj, only Evangelicals like you and Daryll think the Old Testament was written as an instructional for Christian and was just waiting for Jesus to come along. Really you losers should demand that your ministers take a couple of theology classes. Because this literal translation of the OT by a bunch of rednecks without any historical background is what makes you idiots look like such fools.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:27 amBilbo Hussein Baggins Says: Unfortunately Obama caved to the notion that if he didn’t support the FISA bill he would be branded as soft on terrorism. The sad thing is they are still branding him as soft on terrorism AND they now have a legitimate talking point that Obama can’t be trusted to keep his promises. Too bad he didn’t think a little further before he made that big mistake.
But he knew better. His convictions and anti-status-quo stance are why he won the Democratic Primary.
Sigh… It was nice to have hoped for a few months.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:27 amjabberjaw Says: Unlike Daryll, I don’t purport to be a bible thumper or biblican expert.
Actions speak louder than words…
July 16th, 2008 at 11:29 amjj/bartlebee,
why do you hate shayne?
You have shown an extreme lack of knowledge or an unbridled tendency to fabricate your own facts on this thread.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:30 amSo then, jabberjaw confirms my pro-abortion bible quotes are correct (it doesn’t matter to whom the Judeo-Christian god was responding, he was still advocating and performing abortion - which was my point).
In fact - 70% - 75% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage (i.e. spontaneous abortion). So what if humans intentionally add another 5% - 10% to that? It’s nothing in comparison to what happens naturally. Besides, we already have too many damn people on this planet as it is.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:35 amunbelievable, you’re speaking logic and scientific fact to jj. That’s like kryptonite to his species.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:40 amjabberjaw Says:
But on a more serious side, I admit that I should have used w word instead of Muslim since the events of the Old T took place before 610 AD. Unlike Shayne/Daryll, I don’t purport to be a bible thumper or biblican expert.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:23 am
_____
True. You should have used a different word. But what word? “Arabs?” Well, that wouldn’t entirely be accurate - at the time, Arab refers specifically to tribes in the southern Arabian peninsula. Palestinian or Philistine refers to a different ethnicity, who are actually closer in terms of mitochondrial and Y-chromosome DNA markers to Ashkenazi Jews than they are to Arabs. So while it is true that Arabs invaded the Levant in the 7th century, Palestinians have been there since the Nafutian period of 12,500-10,000 BC.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:41 ampoor jj,
we’re all in springfield
and he’s stuck in shelbyville.
*
nice hat dude!
&
good luck.
#
July 16th, 2008 at 11:41 amShayne Says: unbelievable, you’re speaking logic and scientific fact to jj. That’s like kryptonite to his species.
Clearly. The funny part is that he isn’t smart enough to understand how stupid he sounds, and that we, who are, find him amusing. He thinks he’s being taken seriously, or is informative.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:42 am88. Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says: The problem with your scenario is that those donations didn’t come from the telecom industry, they came from people who work in the telecom industry.
Yes, of course, dildo. A slew of telecom “individual donors” who all just happen to work in the telecom industry just happen to contribute to Obama to the tune of around $4 MILLION+ (and counting..)…Dayum, them telecom employees sure are flush and political, ain’t they? Hell, them cable installers alone must clear $15..16 dollars an hour?
Then Obama flip-flops on his position in a matter of months and pees on the Constitution. Pure coincidence!
Uh huh.
How frakkin’ stupid are you, dildo?
July 16th, 2008 at 11:43 amJJ has demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that it has nothing to offer. A pimp for McCain and a shit stirrer to derail threads,
Instead of responding with a comment, just hit the Abuse Flag and move on to the next comment. It will shrivel without the attention, like Daryll’s devil after he is done shaking it on the Bible.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:44 amHey JJ I’m not the one who posted this little bit of brilliance:
That’s the kind of genius that comes from you born again Christian types.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:45 amUh oh toasterhead, you’re going to make JJ’s head assplode. I’m not cleaning up the mess.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:47 am# hussein toasterhead Says:
Palestinians have been there since the Nafutian period of 12,500-10,000 BC.
Paraphrasing Eddie Izzard :
UK: “Ah, yes, but did they have a flag?”
India: “We don’t need a bloody flag, this is our country, you bastard!”
UK: “No flag, no country! You can’t have one! That’s the rules…”
Back to a more serious point. Right-wingers in several sites (LGF comes to mind) claim that the Palestinians don’t count as a country since they were never “officially” a country. Therefore, they can’t claim to be evicted from their country since it never existed.
I mean, they’ve only lived there for 10 thousand years or so, right?
July 16th, 2008 at 11:48 am/snark
jabberjaw Says: I haven’t confirmed anything you have said as correct, especially when you are using the OT as your only source.
Doesn’t matter. The OT is in the bible(s), so you cannot pick and choose.
I actually wasn’t looking for your confirmation of the information. But, I’ll humor you. Check out Matthew 5:18-20. It’s New Testament. Jesus not only confirms the entire contents of the OT as valid, but rejects those who do not follow it, every jot and tittle.
You either should read the bible(s), or avoid discussions about it…
July 16th, 2008 at 11:49 amYou’re right Joe Cantwell, that JJ is one good looking hunk of a man, to guys like Larry Craig any way.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:49 amShayne Says:
Uh oh toasterhead, you’re going to make JJ’s head assplode.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:47 am
______
My plan exactly. 8-)
July 16th, 2008 at 11:50 amJJ “Well then I guess I stand corrected and the Promised Land must belong to Isreal since by your definition, the Jews were there before Muslims ever existed because “Muslim’s didn’t exist until 610 AD.” Now I guess they can stop fighting. You just solved everything.”
The Jews were nomads, JJ sharing a swath of land with other groups such as the Canaanits and the Moabites and so on. They abandoned the area in favor of Egypt because of a drought. They flourished in Egypt until their numbers grew so much that the Egyptians began using them as a slave resource–because they were immigrants. The Jews finally left their oppression to return to their original ranges. God apparently made Jacob the head of the various jewish tribes and called them collectively “Israel”.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:50 amArriving back at their old stomping grounds after decades of both voluntary and involuntary exile they had pretty much lost any claims on the land to thoise who had stayed or settled whilst the jews were away in Egypt. Luckily God assured them that the land was really all theirs and they should take it back by killing all the males and enslaving all the females of whichever tribes living there weren’t of Israel–which was of course everyone they could find.
Thus Judea was founded, by invasion and slaughter and oppression sanctioned by God and the jews stopped being nomads and settled and created a nation-state which became something of an empire that expanded north into present day Iraq and southwest to include parts of the Nile basin. And then they lost it all to various other Mediterranean powers and Judea ceased to exist as a nation. The jews dispersed once again, abandoning the land until The Balfour Declaration laid the foundation for the modern state of Israel–a geopolitical entity the jews were simply given in classic imperial fashion and which was an area in which they simply ranged but never setled in the first place and abandoned, and which they subsequently reclaimed, established as a nation and then lost and never tried to reclaim, for about 2000 years, and which was then delivered to them as a gift rather than being reclaimed by their own efforts as most other nations have had to do.
You can have the last word jabberjaw, I have to go. No doubt tha it will be enlightening…
July 16th, 2008 at 11:52 am#hanshiro Says:
88. Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says: The problem with your scenario is that those donations didn’t come from the telecom industry, they came from people who work in the telecom industry.
Yes, of course, dildo. A slew of telecom “individual donors” who all just happen to work in the telecom industry just happen to contribute to Obama to the tune of around $4 MILLION+ (and counting..)…Dayum, them telecom employees sure are flush and political, ain’t they? Hell, them cable installers alone must clear $15..16 dollars an hour?
Ok, here’s the breakdown assuming a $200 contribution from each:
Telcom Services and Equipment $361,000 1,805
Telephone Utilities $365,995 1,830
Computers/Internet $3,307,495 16,537
There are many professions that can be included in “Telcom Services and Equipment”, as with “Telephone Utilities”. The Computers/Internet is wide open. I am included in that last one.
Yes, I do believe that those contributions came from individuals that work in those industries. As I said before, until you can prove that any of that money came directly from the telecom industry, I will believe that Obama has not taken money from them.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:57 amhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFcxPjw2f-g
July 16th, 2008 at 12:00 pmhanshiro Says:
How frakkin’ stupid are you, dildo?
Not as stupid as you are. And if you think that calling me childish names somehow elevates your discourse, you are sadly mistaken. It doesn’t bother me a bit and it makes you out to be very childish. You are childish in your words and you are childish in your ability to think critically.
So, where’s your proof that Obama has taken a penny from the Telecom industry (not people who work in the industry). Are you so stupid as to think that if that had happened it would not have been plastered all over the news?
July 16th, 2008 at 12:01 pmYou presume to speak for all of us here? Then you should be held responsible for being factual. You are the one who is peddling the shit that no one is buying.
flagged now and at every post I see from this point forward.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:01 pmflagged now and at every post I see from this point forward.
I second the motion.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:04 pmBilbo and Unbelievable,
July 16th, 2008 at 12:07 pmWhat Obama was doing WAS indeed working — among Democrats!
To win the election, a candidate needs more than his base - he needs the independents and he needs some from the other party.
Racist Democrats would never vote for Obama (Clinton supporters demonstrated that) so Obama needs to gather even more from the middle and the right. He also needs a greater majority in order to lead the nation in the way we expect and hope. If he wins in November with a scant plurality, the opposition to whatever he proposes will bring us more frustration and failure.
Obama will win in November, but he has a long and hard slog toward to get there and along the way he has to make compromises - he has always said he negotiates and compromises in order to make progress. So if the road to the future is zig-zag and not a bee-line, the direction is correct.
jabberjaw Says:
Sure, flag the guy that supports a true progressive — Ralph Nader. Most of you are obviously PINO (progressive in name only).
who writes
your material?
*
good luck.
#
July 16th, 2008 at 12:11 pmWell said Marie.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:13 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
By your logic then, although some contributions to Ralph Nader in 2000 and 2004 came from Republicans (and some came from Democrats and some came from neither), you cannot continue to argue that he “took money from the RNC.” So, let me fix your quote for you:
“As I said before, until you can prove that any of that money came directly from the RNC, I will believe that Nader has not taken money from them.”
————
Well, since I have never argued that Nader took money from the RNC, I guess I won’t continue to do something I never did.
What I have said in the past and will say now is that a large number of Republicans supported Nader’s 2004 campaign:
July 16th, 2008 at 12:15 pmRegarding Obama’s contributions from “the telecom industry”.
I made a mistake on my calculation. It should have been:
Telephone Utilities: $220,789 1,104 donations
I also noticed that whomever is posting this information is being very disingenuous. Hillary Clinton was not listed as a Presidential candidate even though all the obscure candidates were listed along with the major candidates, which leads me to wonder about the veracity of the numbers. When you look at her numbers under Senator, she’s the top for the Telecom Services and Equipment category and right up there on the other two categories.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:19 pmjabberjaw Says:
all original joe,
flaws and all.
Imperfect but real….
jabberjaw
*
res ipsa loquitur.
*
gratias,
:)
July 16th, 2008 at 12:22 pm125. Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says: Yes, I do believe that those contributions came from individuals that work in those industries. As I said before, until you can prove that any of that money came directly from the telecom industry, I will believe that Obama has not taken money from them.
Yes, that’s the Tom Delay/Bart Simpson defense.
Not as stupid as you are. And if you think that calling me childish names somehow elevates your discourse, you are sadly mistaken.
Yes, nothing elevates the discourse as when you started out telling me to “STFU.” Particularly when you “searched the net” and couldn’t find Open Secrets’ website. Your incompetence isn’t grounds for lowering the dialogue either; And you fired the first salvo, dildo.
I also noticed that whomever is posting this information is being very disingenuous. Hillary Clinton was not listed as a Presidential candidate even though all the obscure candidates were listed along with the major candidates
Hillary is listed in Senators and “All Recipients.” Not finding her name in one catagory doesn’t discredit the source, however much you want to dismiss this evidence of Obama’s capitulation price. Sucker.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:34 pmJebus. I’m sick of stupid trolls.
And yes, jabbie, that means you.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:39 pmjabberjaw Says:
Shayne is female and she is not Daryll, dumbass
July 16th, 2008 at 12:41 pmA troll flag is like an ant bite, not much notice, but if we all take a little bite we can rid ourselves of these pesky nuisances.
JJ is on top of my flag on sight. Along with whatever moniker Mr. P is currently hiding behind.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:42 pmhanshiro Says:
Yes, nothing elevates the discourse as when you started out telling me to “STFU.” Particularly when you “searched the net” and couldn’t find Open Secrets’ website. Your incompetence isn’t grounds for lowering the dialogue either; And you fired the first salvo, dildo.
No I knew where Open Secrets was. The problem was that I was looking for proof that the telecom industry was donating to Obama’s campaign since that is what you were asserting. I found no proof, and as of now, neither have you.
I told you to prove it or STFU. There was nothing personal about it, I didn’t make up an insulting name to call you. I was simply setting forth the “put up or shut up” meme. So, I’ll do it again.
Prove that Obama is taking money directly from the Telecom industry (which could have affected his FISA vote) or STFU!
July 16th, 2008 at 12:50 pmNOT hilarious… ya’ll play with it for hours then get all indignant and righteous and call out the flags… jeesh…
after my last post, had to go outside to mow and such…
expecting (lesson learned) to find more interesting reading during my cool-down, i get another lesson in scrolling…
until i get to marie’s comment (now at 113)… thank goodness!
don’t ever quit making sense, girl, we need you her