Ashcroft: Waterboarding ‘Consistently’ Seen As Legal, Refuses To Say Use On U.S. Troops Is ‘Unacceptable’
Ashcroft: Waterboarding ‘Consistently’ Seen As Legal, Refuses To Say Use On U.S. Troops Is ‘Unacceptable’
During a hearing before the House Judiciary Committee today, former Attorney General John Ashcroft falsely claimed that waterboarding has “consistently” been defined as “not torture” and refused to agree that the use of enhanced interrogation techniques — including waterboarding — on captured U.S. soldiers is “unacceptable” or “criminal.”
REP. MAXINE WATERS: Do you think that if these techniques were used on American soldiers that they would be totally unacceptable and even criminal? [...]
ASHCROFT: My job, as Attorney General, was to try and elicit from the experts and the best people in the Department definitions that comported with the statues enacted by the Congress and the Constitution of the United States. And those statutes have consistently been interpreted so as to say, by the definitions that, waterboarding, as described in the CIA’s request, is not torture.
Watch it:
In fact, waterboarding “has been prosecuted in U.S. courts since the late 1800s and was regarded by every U.S. administration before this one as torture.”
Further, Ashcroft’s non-answer with regard to the torture of captured American service men and women is reminiscent of State Department Legal Adviser John Bellinger’s refusal to condemn “the use of water boarding on an American national by a foreign intelligence service.” His comments are also in line with the sentiments of Guantanamo Bay’s legal adviser, Brigadier General Thomas W. Hartmann, who refused to answer whether or not the use of waterboarding by Iranians on U.S. service men and women would constitute torture.
In the words of former JAG officer Lt. Cmdr. Andrew Williams, Ashcroft and his fellow travelers have “sold all the soldiers and sailors at risk of capture and subsequent torture down the river.”
Transcript:
WATERS: Based on all of that information, those descriptions, your understandings, and the conclusions, if in fact these pactices were applied to American soldiers do you think that conclusion would be a good one or do you think that if these techniques were used on American soldiers that they would be totally unacceptable and even criminal?
ASHCROFT: My subscription to the memos and my belief that the law provides the basis for these memos persisted even in the presence of my son serving two tours of duty overseas in the Gulf area as a member of our armed forces. I know that his training included a number of activities that I think would be very, very difficult for any of us to sustain, including having to deal with evil chemistry and the like.
But my job, as Attorney General, was to try and elicit from the experts and the best people in the Department definitions that comported with the statues enacted by the Congress and the Constitution of the United States. And those statutes have consistently been interpreted so as to say, by the definitions, that waterboarding, as described in the CIA’s request, is not torture.
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Just sing along now, “Later on, we’ll be waterboarding, torturing in a fascist wonderland…”
July 17th, 2008 at 8:08 pmAm I wrong or weren’t Japanese soldiers prosecuted for waterboarding American prisoners in WWII?
And didn’t the US military declare waterboarding illegal during Vietnam?
When did it become a gray area?
July 17th, 2008 at 8:10 pmI am glad I was in the service in Vietnam. Even the VC and the NVA treated us better than what we have done to some of the prisoners we have captured. And I am sure we will see the repercussions of this as thing move forward.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:10 pmWaterboard Aschloch!
July 17th, 2008 at 8:17 pmSo according to Bellinger, if the U.S. government’s policy towards waterboarding is that it is legal (”applying the law to the facts” as he states it), if a U.S. serviceman is waterboarded, then that’s A-OK.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:19 pmI also take this time to remind everyone that Bush has said that if other countries adopt the policies of the Detainee Detention Act, which among other things include detaining enemies (say, American troops) for an indefinite period of time and fighting efforts to tell them why they are being held by keeping evidence from them, then the world would be a better place.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:22 pmLet’s water board Ashcroft and see if he remembers when he was warned that ‘Al Qaeda would fly planes into U.S buidlings’ in 2001.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:23 pmThis war criminal needs to be shipped off in chains to The Hauge for crimes against humanity and war crimes worldwide.
He should be standing just behind GW Botch and VP Dick(head) for arraignment!! Ashcroft is EVIL!!
July 17th, 2008 at 8:23 pmI’ll bet we could get asscraft to sing “Let the Eagles Soar” in Hip Hop with a little waterboarding.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:31 pmThis nitwit can’t bear to see titties on a statue, but thinks its fine to TORTURE people. He exposes our troops to the same kind of treatment. Nazi’s used to willingly surrender to the US troops because they knew they would be treated humanely and fairly. Now our enemies know full well it is better to fight to the death. Ashcroft is a Traitor.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:33 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
When did it become a gray area?
When the monkey with no grey matter was installed as the Resident of the whitehouse!
July 17th, 2008 at 8:39 pmAnd i’ll bet that these criminals all have a nice made-in-china-Support-the-Troops-magnet on every one of their cars…
July 17th, 2008 at 8:42 pmIf I was the parent of someone in Iraq, this would infuriate me. Actually, it infuriates me anyway. In order to justify their bad actions, these people are willing to toss the well being of our troops out the window. These people must be prosecuted for their crimes. This is something that Obama MUST do!
July 17th, 2008 at 8:47 pmThere is no legitimate excuse for subjecting prisoners to torture. It does not produce reliable information. What information is gleaned will not be allowed in a legitimate court of law. It degrades the reputation and moral standing of our Nation. It is counter to our interests. Fighting terrorism with our own terrorism is no victory. Not only must this stop, all who were involved and all who were complicit must be punished.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:54 pmAny Flag Officer with ANY balls would hand in resignation papers, conditional on Chimpy’s sworn testimony, by noon tomorrow. Don’t worry about legality of Constitutional precedent.
Bushco owes every honorable warrior in uniform the plain truth if not blood. And if he doesn’t want to end like Hitler, alone in a bunker and ordering make-believe troops into combat, HE DAMN WELL BETTER TELL THE EFFING TRUTH!!!
July 17th, 2008 at 8:56 pmWhat can one say. Ashcroft probably thinks that the Spanish Inquisition was both legal and justified. So much for democracy and the American way, which went by the wayside with BushCo.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:59 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
——————————————————————————–
This is something that Obama MUST do!
Bilbo, I would like to agree with you but after Fisa, I’ve given up on hoping he will do the needful thing.
Let me rephrase that, I couldn’t agree with you more but I won’t hold my breath that he will.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:23 pmHey, what’s the problem? Now our young men and women in uniform can be treated to a little “swim” at the hands of “the enemy.” Why, after a day in the hot Iraqi sun, it should be a welcome relief!
In fact, why doesn’t the Army just put a waterboard on each and every recruitment poster:
Waterboarding: it’s not just for torture anymore.
Of course, now that the Federal Government is doing it, everybody will want to do it: State troopers, local sheriffs, you name it. Hell, even Supreme Court Justice Scalia says it doesn’t violate the 8th Amendment prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment (because it’s done before anyone is convicted of a crime).
Innocent until proven waterlogged.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
These people can say the law is anything they want and members of congress won’t bat an eye. We have one party under the great corporations of the world. America is gone.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:44 pmWhen cavemen vote other cavemen into office, what kind of behavior can you expect from them? Subhuman, tribal, hateful, and xenophobic. We’ll be LUCKY if we survive ourselves.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:54 pmI like Maxine.. but this is another example of what lousy prosecutors politicians usually are. Because they spend their working lives hedging answers, they always hedge questions too.
Instead of the passive “Do you think that if these techniques were used on American soldiers that they would be totally unacceptable and even criminal? ”
she could have put him into a corner, thusly:
So as you agree that waterboarding isn’t torture under US law. So you must also agree that if a another country adopted the same legal definition of waterboarding as the US then the US would have no legal argument to complain if an American citizen was subject to the same treatment.
This is what prosecutors do, they force their witness to make definitive statements to establish the argument. ANd they keep at it to build the argument and bring it to its logical irrefutable conclusion,
What politicians do is give the witness the chance to re-direct the line of investigation by asking the witness to provide a goddamned alternative argument which prevent the interrogator from establishing THEIR argument first!
Politicians avoid direct questions and logical arguments, that’s why they ask indirect questions and can’t present logical arguments and that;s why these investigations go NOWHERE!.
July 17th, 2008 at 10:22 pm5th Estate:
Great post. I keep waiting for something…ANYTHING…to come of all these hearings that Congress keeps holding, yet…nothing. I hate to say it, but it just feeds the Republicans’ claims that the Dems are putting on dog-and-pony shows.
Do something, you bunch of damn pussies!
July 17th, 2008 at 11:01 pmI keep waiting for the Perry Mason moment in these hearings . . instead it becomes a mutual jerk-a-thon punctuated with the occasional game of dodge ball . . . .
July 17th, 2008 at 11:10 pm“having to deal with evil chemistry and the like”
July 17th, 2008 at 11:19 pmSuch as that between Madonna & A-Rod?
Is it only me, or is it just completely obvious that the Bushies have in fact already tortured American soldiers?
There are reports of American soldiers or citizens held in “black site prisons” are there not?
This would explain these answers.
ab
July 17th, 2008 at 11:34 pmAshcroft is an embarrassment to the human race.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:25 amYou guys are not even trying to look at it from Ashcroft and Bush’s side. Their kids are not going to war, so when they are asked if it would be ok to torture American soldiers, they are honestly saying, “Sure, why not?”
Truth be told, they have no more allegiance to American soldiers as they do to Enemy Combatants (whatever the fck that is). Truth be told, Bush and his cabal of evil incubi do not respect or honor America, they honor themselves.
They ARE the enemy. And should be given no quarter.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:33 am.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Ashcroft is supplying us with a new definition of what “is” is.
Dear John Ashcroft,
What law provided for the basis of criminal prosecutions BY the USA against Japanese and US Service men for engaging in water torture?
If it was criminal enough for the USA to prosecute then, what has changed?
… the definition?
… or your use of the definition?
What else do you call it when a bank robber strikes… A withdrawal?
.
July 18th, 2008 at 12:41 am‘…Ashcroft and his fellow travelers have “sold all the soldiers and sailors at risk of capture and subsequent torture down the river”?
No one could have predicted!
#76 in a series…
July 18th, 2008 at 1:24 am…in 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.
July 18th, 2008 at 1:44 am“They ARE the enemy. And should be given no quarter.”
Nor dimes.
Nor nickles, even.
July 18th, 2008 at 2:06 amWhen McCain was “detained” and “aggressively interrogated” in Vietnam, he denounced the US, the troops, and the war.
Now, thanks to the Bush administration, those statements ae considered valid! So, there you go, McCain hates America! He said so himself.
July 18th, 2008 at 8:31 am“They ARE the enemy. And should be given no quarter.”
Nor dimes.
Nor nickles, even.
How about drawn and quartered?
I agree with chingebush (love the name BTW) that these dickweeds are the enemy. They have done more harm to our country and killed more Americans than Osama.
Remember him? Tall Saudi guy, beard, dialysis machine, 9/11? Yeah, that guy.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:13 amIf he is claiming water boarding is legal, then he is lying. My father was a prisoner of the Germans in WW2. He spent quite awhile in that concentration camp. Water boarding was
a part of their arsenal of punishments. I will take my fathers word on this. It was considered torture at that time and it still is. Perhaps Ashcroft would like to try it out for a couple of hours then make the same statement.
And since I was originally from Missouri, I know Ashcroft. This man was one of the most disliked and seriously conservative politicians in MO. Even in that conservative state. This man is a Baptist minister. And like most neocons and religious nut cases, he is deranged. He is a Republican first, and a man of god, and American way down the line. And a human being lost somewhere in the mix.
And he managed to breed children. Why do these people always breed more?
July 18th, 2008 at 4:12 pm