Leftside Annie. Thanks for linking the Obama speech in Berlin. Great speech.

I don’t claim to be a liberal or a progressive. But, I will adopt what I feel are the best ideas regardless of who claims them. The progressive view on waterboarding is the stronger view.

Peace, my friend.

Backup, if you’re there, I recommend reading this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_nightmares

I had read about it once and then forgot all about it.

And the next time you have three hours, check out The power of Nightmares at You tube. Even though I don’t share all the opinions and conclusions reached, (I take everything with some salt), I found it tremendously informative. Lots of stuff I had forgotten or hadn’t realized in the first place.

If waterboarding isn’t torture, there should be no reason for Bush to avoid having it done to him.

Aren’t you a little late to the party, with this opinion? Like about five years too late? Do you think this absolves you of supporting this administration’s policies for that period of time? You’re opinion sounds like an attempt to whitewash your former support for this administration, and it’s pretty transparent. If you wanted to sound believeable, you should have prefaced it with a little disclaimer, about your former support, or other posters might mistake you for a liberal, and we both know that’s not the case, so next time, start by mentioning your (former) position.

If waterboarding isn’t torture, there should be no reason for Bush to avoid having it done to him.

Christopher Hitchens (and others) have volunteered to undergo waterboarding, to better determine if waterboarding is torture.

If Bush really believes that waterboarding isn’t torture, he should volunteer to undergo it himself.

It might give people more confidence that Bush knows what the technique entails. And it might make his claims that he believes the technique is not torture, more credible.

If waterboarding isn’t torture, there should be reason for Bush to avoid having it done to him.

President Bush, please consider it.

Isn’t the neocon creed, “a lack of evidence for anything is proof of something”?

They can’t prove they are not hiding something so, by Reichwing “logic”, they MUST be hiding another thing. Otherwise we would be offered proof that they’re not hiding something. Which would prove we were right all along.

I think I need to throw up and lie down now. But, I begin to understand “The Power of Nightmares”.

(Note: Look up the Power of Nightmares on YouTube. It’s three hours but well spent.)

His total exposure to combat is from movies and torture is from watching “24″.

Unlike him, those of us who have been in combat have been grateful that, until Dubya’s clusterfu(k, the US has followed the Geneva Convention.I just hope none of his kids ever have to serve, because he is helping to put them in Harm’s Way, just like all the Chickenhawks have, none of which have ever served.

What is sad is that; to anyone with a bit of a Classical education there’s nothing new about what Bushco has done, or how it’s punished. I thought Bush was an idiot the first time I heard him speak, and I was surprised the (Bleeps!) actually did what we know they did. To say nothing of our suspicions.

And they blunder along oblivious to history. Don’t they know the fate of the proud and disdainful? It’s hard to think of a story, fiction or historical, where hubris is not a capital crime. Do they really need to hear Prometheus groan to realize what it means to defy the will of higher authority?

Because they have obviously forgotten that the Will of the Citizens, of the United States of America, is the Highest authority. And a great many Citizens are just remembering that fact.

The good news is that those citizens are not of the group who are willing to trust our fate to gods or despots. They are not Moral Majority, Young Republicriminals, trolls, or harpies (who I suspect find voting too overwhelming, so they don’t vote). They are people who are sick of this crap and aren’t going to take it anymore.

We provide evidence, and they write “Well, what about Clinton?”. We provide links, and they ask why Michelle Obama is not proud of America. We move the discussion forward, and they wonder why Obama thinks we have 57 states…

No refutation of our positions, only distractions away from the facts. They can’t explain what they stand for, because they stand for nothing: except an imperial King Bush.

indyjones Says He’s a Good Little Fascist Nazi

Indy-
BTW the suspected terrorists have been convicted of nothing and ’stripping them down’ is a violation of International Law, US Law and common decency as well as being incredibly counter-productive. Yet you excuse it by arguing that, ‘insurgents don’t abide by International Law’… Is there any problem with this reasoning?
By that logic, Cops are allowed to beat law-breakers senseless because they have no respect for the law.
By that logic, I shouldn’t be prosecuted for stealing a Gulfstream from Kenneth Lay ’cause he’s a thief and therfore has no repect for laws of property.
Again I ask, did your mother allow you to get away with this, ‘everyone else is doing it’ argument?
July 25th, 2008 at 4:51 pm

I’ll go one better.

Suppose two suspected, heavily armed, bank robbers were alleged to run into a Detroit apartment building and, upon hearing a shot, the Police called the local air base and ordered a couple thousand pound bombs on the building. Dozens of women and children, killed and maimed.

This scenario has been playing out for over five years in Afghanistan and Iraq and our trolls think it will take a confession from Bushco to find them guilty?

You still haven’t provided us with the quote from Obama’s speech where he recited the anti-american torture propaganda.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:58 pm

And they also need to produce, at least, one foreigner who thought his speech was full of anti American propaganda. Preferably one of the 200,000 Germans who were cheering him.

Please keep in mind, a large proportion of the German public is, unlike some trolls, proficient enough in English that they probably have the skill to check for errors in translation.

When WE torture, we save American lives!