McCain Denies He Used ‘The Word Timetable,’ Claims ‘We Were Greeted As Liberators’
McCain Denies He Used ‘The Word Timetable,’ Claims ‘We Were Greeted As Liberators’
During a January 30 Republican primary debate, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) pilloried former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney for having once used the word “timetable” while talking about Iraq. “Timetables was the buzzword for those that wanted to get out,” scoffed McCain.
But on the heels of Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s embrace of a 16-month timetable for withdrawal, McCain has been forced to change his tune. “I think it’s a pretty good timetable,” McCain told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer on Friday.
Now, however, McCain is denying his own words. “I didn’t use the word timetable,” he told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in an interview airing today:
STEPHANOPOULOS: You shouldn’t have used the word timetable.
MCCAIN: I didn’t use the word timetable. That I did — if I did…
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, it’s a pretty good timetable.
MCCAIN: Oh, well, look. Anything is a good timetable that is dictated by conditions on the ground. Anything is good.
Later in the interview, McCain claimed he was right in his pre-war prediction that America would be “greeted as liberators.” “We were greeted as liberators,” McCain insisted. Watch it:
Thrown off by the converging political consensus around a timetable for withdrawal, McCain can’t seem to figure out what his position on Iraq is. First, he denied that the Iraqis wanted the U.S. to leave on a timetable, then he said that Maliki had floated “a pretty good timetable.” Defending his shifts today, he claimed, “Anything sounds good to me.”
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We were greeted as liberators,” McCain insisted.
McDepends is such a tremendous teacher ; I had not known until this day that “liberators” are always greeted with IED’s ……
July 27th, 2008 at 11:21 amI sure hope that Obama’s campaign is compiling this litany of lie after lie because if they truly believe that the American people are too smart to believe the escalating McCain ad lies, they are very, very wrong.
Perhaps Team Obama should go back and review how the Rovian strategy worked in 2000 and 2004. McCain promised to run a “clean” election, and he’s already turned to smears and lies.
Please, please don’t make the same mistakes that Cahill did with the Kerry campaign, ignoring the swiftboaters until it was too late!
PEACE
July 27th, 2008 at 11:25 am“help mr. wizard!
i don’t want to be
a presidential candidate
anymore!”
*
“drizzle, drazzle,
drozzle, drone,
time for this one to
come home.”
*
good luck.
@
July 27th, 2008 at 11:34 amYou go, Grampy!
You show America that an Alzheimer’s patient is just “differently abled”!
July 27th, 2008 at 11:34 amDementia coupled with Tourettes
July 27th, 2008 at 11:38 am#3 Too funny!!!
That brought back a memory or two.
July 27th, 2008 at 11:39 amOverheard by Ms Thang Rodeo Queen Pill Poppin Mama Cindy!
“Oh John adores his Alzheimers! he meets new friends every day!
(girlfriend do SOMETHING with that gawd awful hair!)
July 27th, 2008 at 11:41 amYeah, I can see how it would seem that way to someone who simply swallowed right-wing talking points whole, with a glass of Kool-Aid. If you really believe that Obama is talking about an “artificial” date the way Grampy keeps insisting, then, sure, the right-wing talking points make a lot of sense in their own creepy way.
If, however, you allow reality to intrude and you pay attention to what Obama has said all along, then you can see that the right-wing talking points are simply flat cardboard facades, much like the buildings (and people) of fake Rock Ridge that fooled Hedley Lamarr and his band of miscreants and ne’er-do-wells so memorably.
July 27th, 2008 at 11:43 amWhen picking their candidate to throw under the bus, they could have at least chosen someone that appeared to have a chance. There can’t be enough of the 27 percenters that are over 65 to get him out of the starting blocks.
July 27th, 2008 at 11:45 amMcGrampy still hasn’t figured out that those new-fangled devices such as video cameras can capture what he said previously and play them back.
July 27th, 2008 at 11:45 amMcSenile strikes again.
July 27th, 2008 at 11:45 amAnother to add to the long list of “Mc’s:” McYoYo.
McFlip and McFlop are fitting but McFlop is doubly suited.
July 27th, 2008 at 11:46 amMcSenile
McGrampy
McDepends
McPain
McSame
McBushIII
Somebody should start a list!
July 27th, 2008 at 11:49 amI’ve been able to convince two undecided Republicans to vote for Obama thus far.
It wasn’t hard to do by simply pointing out the difference between Obama and McCain are the same as the differences between Obama and mastermind Dick Cheney. Even the Republicans think Cheney is evil.
McCain = Cheney = Obama in 2008!
July 27th, 2008 at 11:49 amOh, good. Mongo Dingo is now offering us opinion pieces from the AP as evidence that we are “winning the war in Iraq” And TWO exclamation marks. He must mean it.
Tell us, Mongo, what does “winning” mean?
And how can that be achieved militarily?
Thanks ever so.
July 27th, 2008 at 11:51 amThrown off by the converging political consensus around a timetable for withdrawal, McCain can’t seem to figure out what his position on Iraq is. First, he denied that the Iraqis wanted the U.S. to leave on a timetable, then he said that Maliki had floated “a pretty good timetable.” Defending his shifts today, he claimed, “Anything sounds good to me.”
Shorter Version of McCain: Just say anything and I’ll agree with it.
July 27th, 2008 at 11:52 amRingo Dingo Says: AP Declares that U.S. is winning the war in Iraq!!
I really wouldn’t be advertizing the fact that it’s taken “the world’s most powerful military’ 6 years to finally win a war against a bunch of third world goat herders with homemade bullets…
July 27th, 2008 at 11:52 amApproved, with the following addendum:
If Obama says anything, I’ll criticize it. Even if I’m agreeing with it.
July 27th, 2008 at 11:54 amLater in the interview, McCain claimed he was right in his pre-war prediction that America would be “greeted as liberators.” “We were greeted as liberators,” McCain insisted.
…
Thrown off by the converging political consensus around a timetable for withdrawal, McCain can’t seem to figure out what his position on Iraq is. First, he denied that the Iraqis wanted the U.S. to leave on a timetable, then he said that Maliki had floated “a pretty good timetable.” Defending his shifts today, he claimed, “Anything sounds good to me.”
Classic authoritarian denial where you believe what you want to believe regardless of the “conditions on the ground.” Unfortunately a significant portion of this country is afflicted with the same denial, explaining why this doddering fool is still in the race.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
July 27th, 2008 at 11:56 amWhen asked if “Obama was right and he (McCain) was wrong on whether or not to invade Iraq in the first place“, McCain said, “No, of course not.”
I can only assume from that, that knowing what he now knows, he’d do it all over again.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:00 pmThis is the first year I have really followed politics. If McCain was as passionate about the Economy and other pressing issues as he is about the war he might get somewhere. Changing your position on an hourly basis seems to me to be political suicide. I am still learning but have decided what I DON’T WANT!! McCain reminds me of a little boy playing with his GI Joe action figures. It’s over when I say it over!
God help this country if he wins.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:01 pmtimetable…
I miss last weeks “time horizon”, it is so much more amorphous than a “time table”…
July 27th, 2008 at 12:01 pmunbelievable Says:
Ringo Dingo Says: AP Declares that U.S. is winning the war in Iraq!!
I really wouldn’t be advertizing the fact that it’s taken “the world’s most powerful military’ 6 years to finally win a war against a bunch of third world goat herders with homemade bullets…
Pssst. Don’t tell the troll we are getting our butts kicked in Afghanistan, troll heads splatter all that fecal matter they are filled with when they explode. Makes an awful mess on the threads.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:08 pmOther Republican phrases being considered:
time vector
July 27th, 2008 at 12:09 pmtime squiggle
time and time again
time phase
time circle
Man that humorless sneering smile schtick of McCain’s is off-putting. Doesn’t he have PR people to tell him to tone that down, or does his campaign figure his base of supporters are “chuckling” derisively along with him so it’s okay?
July 27th, 2008 at 12:09 pmAlso, I wonder why McCain wasn’t asked to explain how he thinks “We WERE greeted as liberators”.
McCain’s condition is reminiscent of the Drew Barrymore – Adam Sandler movie, 50 First Dates where Barrymore’s character’s memory of the day’s events is erased every time she goes to sleep. In McCain’s case it seems to be every 15 to 20 minutes.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:09 pmRingo Dingo said:
Of course, if Obama had his way, the Surge never would have happened. That’s the difference between leadership (McCain) that includes making some tough, unpopular choices, and politics (Obama) that includes taking whatever position is most popular at the moment.
McCain has flip-flopped so many times now he can’t keep his story straight. He makes gaffe after gaffe because he’s clueless on the issues, at times by his own admission. And this is what you call leadership?
It doesn’t matter who the Republican nominee is, you’d be making the same claims. You call McCain a leader, we call it drinking the Kool-Aid.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
July 27th, 2008 at 12:11 pmTawdry Says:
McCain’s condition is reminiscent of the Drew Barrymore – Adam Sandler movie, 50 First Dates where Barrymore’s character’s memory of the day’s events is erased every time she goes to sleep. In McCain’s case it seems to be every 15 to 20 minutes.
Well to be fair, McCain is getting old and needs naps more often.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:12 pmWayne Says: Pssst. Don’t tell the troll we are getting our butts kicked in Afghanistan, troll heads splatter all that fecal matter they are filled with when they explode. Makes an awful mess on the threads.
You mean just like the “fact” that we tied in Vietnam? LOL
July 27th, 2008 at 12:12 pmtime fart
July 27th, 2008 at 12:13 pmOver the last week i watched some of the speeches McCain made and it was painfully embarrassing to watch. Numerous times he would pause at a place he expected the crowd to clap…they didn’t right away and he starts to talk again then the clapping started and he stumbled to stop. Happened a few times in one speech. The crowd was horribly unenthusiastic.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:13 pmRingo Dingo Says:
The difference is that McCain doesn’t want to withdraw our troops until Iraq forces are in charge of all 18 provinces. Due to the excellent training and progress of the MNF, that number is up to 11 out of 18 with more to come soon. That may occur in 16 months, or it may take a few months longer. Obama seems hell bent in putting up a 16 month number to win an election, whether the 18 province number is reached or not.
That sounds exactly like something that goon_golly would have written, except of course that can’t be you, right?
goon_golly would also have completely missed the point of the post, which wasn’t really whether or not the 16-month timetable was correct, but the fact that McCain can’t remember what he said from one day to the next. First he says anyone who uses the word “timetable” is bad, then he uses the word himself, then he denies that he used the word.
And then there’s that troubling story about how Americans really were greeted as liberators, which he apparently said with a straight face.
goon_golly, like you, would have changed the subject because the real subject, McCain’s flippity-floppy brain farts, was too close to the bullseye to be comfortable.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:14 pmRingo Dingo Says:
Wayne: I’m sorry that you find so much joy in U.S. troops’ heads splattering
Reading comprehension problems?
I guess you think since troll and troop both have “T”s in them they are the same word.
Idiot.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:17 pmThanks, Mongo — you skipped the part about how “winning” as you define it can be achieved militarily.
Thanks.
Also, exactly WHO “expects” 16 of 18 under control of “MNF trained Iraqi Security Forces” by the end of the year? Would this be the officials of the nations that have already exited the “MNF”? Or the nations poised to leave it, like Britain? Or would this be “expected” by the authors of the AP opinion piece you offered as evidence?
July 27th, 2008 at 12:18 pmThe best thing about dementia at McCain’s level is that you can listen to Obama’s good ideas one day, criticize them the next, and on the third day remember them as being your own.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:19 pmWayne, to be fair, the troll undoubtedly thinks of itself as one of the troops, since it is fighting the Good Fight as part of the 101st Keyboard Kommando Unit.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:20 pmRingo Dingo Says:
Wayne: I’m sorry that you find so much joy in U.S. troops’ heads splattering, but once we finish the mission in Iraq, we can concentrate more on Afghanistan. Obama’s approach would be to redeploy to Afghanistan before Iraqi’s 600,000 strong Security Forces have all 18 provinces under their control. If we do it right and don’t redeploy until victory (18/18 under Iraqi control) is achieved in Iraq, then we won’t be left playing Obama’s carnival game of wack a mole.
Not that is funny stuff, goon, er, ringo. Obama’s wack a mole? You mean it was Obama’s decision to divert troops from Afghanistan, just as the task was being started, with an invasion and occupation of Iraq? He did that? Wow. I would have guessed someone like Bush or Cheney has been playing games.
It’s funny, though, that you seem to know more about the situation than the Iraqis do, since they’ve been in agreement that “16 months” is more or less the desired target. You must have better sources of information than they do; they probably don’t watch enough FoxNews.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:20 pmralph the wonder llama
ROFLMAO
Hedley lamar, mongo,
Watching Blazing Saddles are you?
July 27th, 2008 at 12:21 pmThanks for trying to keep us on track, gummitch. I saw the low-hanging fruit that the troll was dangling and I let it draw me off track.
mea culpa.
PS — you may be right. This troll does sound an awful lot like Gigi.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:22 pmPut your eyeglasses on Dingle Ballo, he wasn’t talking about troops head he was talking about the crap filled heads of trolls like YOU. You make me think that the stupidity you people exhibit isn’t a put on that you actually are that dumb.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:22 pmImagine if Maliki had walked in front of the cameras and said, “at this stage, a timetable for withdrawal is unrealistic, and we hope our American friends will not bow to domestic political pressures and be hasty in leaving Iraq just as the country improves.”
This is Sen. McCain’s position…but Al Maliki DID NOT say it.
The Main factor in a Timetable is TIME. Maliki and the Iraqi people see a TIME when American forces are OUT of Iraq.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:23 pmViolence in Iraq is Down BECAUSE Iraq’s believe this to be the case.
McNumbNuts made a huge strategic blunder in goading Obama into a trip to Iraq.
Recent events have shown Obama to be right about Iraq and the “surge” all along (also, see my post #27 and Juan Cole’s entry on this topic).
McNumbNuts should quit criticizing Obama as not understanding Iraq. Obama has it right.
The more pertinent question is: “how come McNumbNuts is so confused about and ignorant about Iraq after having visted the country so often?”
July 27th, 2008 at 12:23 pmBrokaw crucified Obama this morning about how he can’t “admit the surge worked because he is too stubborn.” I don’t hear them demanding that McCain ADMIT his vote to invade Iraq was a mistake.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:25 pmHey Brokaw, you should have stayed in retirement because you sounded like a little b*tch today. Of course that’s my opinion, I could be wrong.
More than ever, I’m guessing that McCain will bow out for “medical” reasons, after Cheney and Crew pick his V.P., and after a few more major McMisSpeaks/McFlops.
Then, rejuvenated, the Republicans will turn out in force for the shucks-I’m-behind-’cause-I-just-got-started-but-I’m-not-dark-skinned-so-vote-for-me candidate.
Maybe will turn out to be a Romney/Pawlenty ticket.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:26 pmOkay, the old man is delusional. And yet, because he is white and Obama isn’t, people may elect him the next President of the United States. I find that so frightening that I cannot but wish I don’t survive.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:27 pmVictory is having all 18 provinces under control of MNF trained Iraqi Security Forces that serve under the Government of Iraq. 11 down (including Anbar), 7 to go, with 16 of 18 expected by the end of 2008.
Um, no. Victory is reconciliation of the various factions and a fully functioning government.
By those measures, there has been no no progress. Remember what the surge was supposed to accomplish? Not there yet.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:28 pmWith Obama’s success on this trip the rightwingnutz are back to saying Obama should have done the town hall tour with McCain because voters aren’t impressed by big speeches they want substance.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:28 pmI suspect McCain is as delusional about how he will look good in the town hall setting as he was about how bad Obama would look in a trip to the middle east.
Ringo Dingo Says: once we finish the mission in Iraq, we can concentrate more on Afghanistan.
The ‘mission’ in Iraq. LOL. We attacked a sovereign nation that posed ZERO threat to us, therefore leaving our troops in Afghanistan who were there FIRST in danger. But, I suppose you forget those inconvenient truths also when they don’t add up the the math you prefer, huh?
If we want your opinion, we can turn on O’Reilly. There’s a reason we don’t. It’s pure crap.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:29 pmGee barfly I thought we were fighting a war on terror so that if we won there would be less terrorists not more. What about that Dingle, are the terrorist a mere memory now? Well to McCain they probably never existed since he can’t remember way back then.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:30 pmPatty Says: Maybe will turn out to be a Romney/Pawlenty ticket.
They will still lose.
There’s a reason Romney couldn’t get the nomination.
M-O-R-M-O-N
July 27th, 2008 at 12:32 pmdingo-berry, you are truly one neuron short of a synapse.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:33 pmunbelievable, you put your finger on it.
Furthermore, Romney won’t be McNumbNuts’ VP pick, either, because it would be political suicide to have both a moron and a Mormon as running-mates on the republican ticket.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:35 pmShayne Says:
They’ve moved those damned goalposts again! Have you seen ‘em? They were around here, somewhere…
July 27th, 2008 at 12:35 pmMcCorpse
July 27th, 2008 at 12:35 pmMcNimrod
McDunce
Ringo Dingo Says:
AP Declares that U.S. is winning the war in Iraq!!
This is the best Ding Dong can come up with? AP news coverage has cratered since Bush took power, and is now a bottom dweller in the shrinking world of journalism. AP reporters have largely been reduced to copying White House press releases these past few years.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:35 pmShayne Says: I suspect McCain is as delusional about how he will look good in the town hall setting as he was about how bad Obama would look in a trip to the middle east.
Just by visuals alone, he will look like a shrunken corpse next to an athlete. Obama has him by at least a foot in height, and it’s a well known fact that people equate height with leadership ability regardless of merit.
Then. let them speak. Obama is like JFK and MLK combined. McCain is like, well, a shrunken corpse…
July 27th, 2008 at 12:36 pmunbelievable Says:
There’s a reason Romney couldn’t get the nomination.
M-O-R-M-O-N
Hope you’re right on the prediction, unbelievable, but if the Republicans can get enough ‘Mericans to continue to believe Obama is a Muslim, then Mormon may not seem as scary a choice.
Mostly, though, I hope you’re right.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:37 pmtom Says: Furthermore, Romney won’t be McNumbNuts’ VP pick, either, because it would be political suicide to have both a moron and a Mormon as running-mates on the republican ticket.
LOL
I am soooo hoping for Bobby “ID” Jindal as his running mate. Will give us another ignorant redneck from the South to expose why the Republican Party is out of touch with modern America.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:39 pmTripleKick 3 Says:
John McCain was 100% correct about the success of the “surge” where as Obama missed the boat entirely and is now floundering on the war.
Fortunately most voters aren’t fooled by this lie.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:42 pmPatty Says: Mostly, though, I hope you’re right.
I think the people who seriously doubt Obama’s religious beliefs would never have voted for him in the first place – even if he were white and taking $181,000 in lobbyist donations… :)
July 27th, 2008 at 12:43 pmI get a kick seeing the pathetic, grasping deadenders clinging onto McCrazy as their last desperate hope to avert the complete destruction of the GOP.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:43 pmMcCain is also correct about the liberators, the Kurds continue to be thrilled with their liberation. Haven’t you see all the Kurds thanking America and thanking God for Bush?
I have seen the Kurds talking about pulling out of the government, because of the oil revenue dispute. Is that what you meant?
July 27th, 2008 at 12:43 pmI keep thinking that Flippy McSpin has hit bottom, but…
HE. JUST. KEEPS. TALKING!
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/07/27/mccain-i-know-how-to-capture-bin-laden/
July 27th, 2008 at 12:45 pmMcCain only wishes he could have Romney as a VP.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:45 pmExcept that John is afraid of Mitt.
Mormonism (can I use that term?) controls a lot of commerce and influence in Arizona. They could just as easily manipulate government offices. Just by the way…
And as I said, no political reconciliation – in fact, that benchmark is headed in the opposite direction.
The surge has failed.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:45 pmTripleKick 3 Says: Haven’t you see all the Kurds thanking America and thanking God for Bush?
Since when do you care about minorities? Oh that’s right – when you can use them to rationalize your ridiculous beliefs…
The Kurds are a minority of the Iraqi population.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:46 pmtriplekick3 (that’s “3″ because “1″ and “2″ died from terminal ignorance), you are truly one tree short of a hammock.
I highly recommend that both you and dingoberry read my post #27 and follow the link to the July 24 post on Informed Comment.
I know that it’s a long-shot but you might actually learn something. Not likely but this offer is just part of my “adopt-a-troll” program.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:46 pmTripleKick 3 Says:
John McCain was 100% correct about the success of the “surge” where as Obama missed the boat entirely and is now floundering on the war. McCain is also correct about the liberators, the Kurds continue to be thrilled with their liberation. Haven’t you see all the Kurds thanking America and thanking God for Bush?
Why do you put “surge” in quotation marks? Is it because you realize that McCain has been using “the surge” to mean just about whatever he says it means? Or that he’s claiming “the surge” started a year or more before Bush even mentioned it? I think you’re right. “The surge” should always be written like that.
That way, any success at all, whether it’s because of politics, or money, or Iraqi efforts that didn’t involve the US in any way can all be called “the surge”. It’s almost like a “big lie.”
And, yes, the Kurds are happy. Why not? They’re pretty much autonomous, which is how they like it, even though it makes the notion of a unified “Iraq” unlikely. Maybe if McCain had said “the Kurds greeted us as liberators” it would have made sense. He didn’t.
And when are you going to get around to telling us about your previous screen names?
July 27th, 2008 at 12:47 pmTK3 thinks that Obama is “floundering” on Iraq?
Why? Did Obama claim that he didn’t use the word “timetable” or something?
July 27th, 2008 at 12:49 pmWow, gum, that was quite a spanking you delivered to the misbehaving troll.
You must have gotten a good night’s sleep. And had a good breakfast.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:51 pmAnd, yes, the Kurds are happy. Why not? They’re pretty much autonomous, which is how they like it, even though it makes the notion of a unified “Iraq” unlikely. Maybe if McCain had said “the Kurds greeted us as liberators” it would have made sense. He didn’t.
Here’s another prediction. The next time Iraq blows up because of lack of political progress and the continued absence of things like oil revenue sharing agreements, the Kurds will “greet the Turks as their countrymen”.
GDumbya’s dirty little avoidable pre-emptive war in Iraq has already amply demonstrated the law of unintended consequences — most of them bad. There are still more where than came from and I think it’s a good idea for us to get the hell out of there before they happen.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:52 pmGummich:
And, yes, the Kurds are happy. Why not? They’re pretty much autonomous, which is how they like it, even though it makes the notion of a unified “Iraq” unlikely.
Um, happy? They still want a separate Kurdistan. They might be satisfied with the current situation, but it’s because they can see how to get to a separate Kurdistan, with oil revenues.
July 27th, 2008 at 12:52 pmSock puppets on laundry day? Which one will disappear in the dryer?
July 27th, 2008 at 12:57 pmThe Oil Rich region around Kirkuk is a Can that keeps getting kicked down the road. The problem is that both the Sunnis and the Kurds think the OIL belongs to them. The Kurds just recently stormed out of the Iraqi Parliament because of the Kirkuk problem.
We should declare Victory, and get out of Iraq during this Lull in the Violence…before Gen. Petraeus needs to be replaced by Solomon.
July 27th, 2008 at 1:01 pmIf McCain is so positive the U.S. was greet as liberators, how does he explain all the dead troops & dead Iraqis?
July 27th, 2008 at 1:02 pmNow be fair unbelievable. He’s a cross between W and a shrunken corpse wouldn’t you say?
July 27th, 2008 at 1:03 pmShayne Says:
Now be fair unbelievable. He’s a cross between W and a shrunken corpse wouldn’t you say?
W. McCorpse
July 27th, 2008 at 1:08 pmMeanwhile… at his next appearance.
Floppy McSpun says: “My friends, I’d like to stop contradicting myself for a moment and take advantage of this opportunity to talk about the press. My friends, the press is wrong. And I want to tell you, my friends, that I deny saying the stuff I said that pissed everyone off. If I wanted to piss someone off I would track them to the gates of Hell and shoot them with a customized shootin’ iron”.
To his SS guard detail: “That guy’s got a camera! Shoot him!! Shoot him”!!!
July 27th, 2008 at 1:08 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Wow, gum, that was quite a spanking you delivered to the misbehaving troll.
You must have gotten a good night’s sleep. And had a good breakfast.
Thanks, Ralph. Actually, a pretty good breakfast but I’m a little cranky because I overindulged last night. Probably shouldn’t have had those last few glasses of Calvados, but it just tastes so damn good!
July 27th, 2008 at 1:08 pmWhat we are missing is an interviewer who refuses to accept his non-answers. At least GWB would pick a position and stick with it, whether it was working for him or not. McCain becomes non-committal when backed into a corner. I want to see him pressed for an answer because I suspect he’d react in anger. The MSM goaded Howard Dean into blowing up and used it to ruin his campaign.
Getting sick of the appearance of impartiality which passes for journalism these days.
July 27th, 2008 at 1:10 pmHi Jim Wilke.
The other trolls burned out so quickly you decided you’d try your inexpert hand at it, huh?
Well, good luck to you, I say.
Any thoughts on McSame claiming that he “never used the word timetable“?
Y’know… the topic of the thread?
Thanks. By the way, help yourself to some Cheetos.
(How’d I do, gum?)
July 27th, 2008 at 1:10 pmHey Winkie, we all know you’re an oil industry hack and nothing else. That makes you perhaps one of the biggest traitors around. Nobody should believe anything you have to say because you are bought and paid for by big oil.
When will McCain admit that his vote for a war that with all his “experience” he should have known was a mistake ADMIT he made a mistake when he voted for the INVASION. And when will he apologize to the families of the dead and injured troops for putting them in harms way for no valid reason?
July 27th, 2008 at 1:11 pmHey gummitch, you work well with a hangover. Attaboy!
July 27th, 2008 at 1:12 pmMcCain has become indistinguishable from Bush. Even his legacy status in college and graduating very near the bottom of his class puts McCain in the same league with Bush. A vote for McCain would indeed be a vote for a Bush third term right down to the bumbler image.
July 27th, 2008 at 1:13 pmAs I said earlier Brokaw crucified Obama today not even letting him finish his answers. Maybe next week he could ask McCain to admit he made a mistake when he voted for the invasion of Iraq.
July 27th, 2008 at 1:14 pmTripleKick 3 Says: Haven’t you see all the Kurds thanking America and thanking God for Bush?
July 27th, 2008 at 1:14 pmYou mean the Kurds who were protected by Bill Clinton all through the 90’s while right-wing scum like you screamed “no war for Monica!” everytime he tried to do anything to bring down Bin Laden, those kurds?
McCain keeps repeating his mantra “conditions on the ground” like the American occupation isnt part of those conditions.
July 27th, 2008 at 1:15 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Any thoughts on McSame claiming that he “never used the word timetable“?
Y’know… the topic of the thread?
Thanks. By the way, help yourself to some Cheetos.
(How’d I do, gum?)
Excellent. Direct and to the point. Have another drink.
July 27th, 2008 at 1:20 pmThanks, gum. Don’t mind if I do.
July 27th, 2008 at 1:21 pmRingo Dingo Says:
That question was already answered in my earlier piece. Victory is having all 18 provinces under control of MNF trained Iraqi Security Forces that serve under the Government of Iraq. 11 down (including Anbar), 7 to go, with 16 of 18 expected by the end of 2008.
So troll, since you are insisting that 11 out of 18 provinces are under the control of trained Iraqi Security forces, please provide us with a link to a credible news source that backs up your contention.
Also, I have a question for you. If the Iraqi Security Forces are so well trained, why did we have to go rescue them the last time they tried an independent military action?
July 27th, 2008 at 1:22 pmShayne Says: Now be fair unbelievable. He’s a cross between W and a shrunken corpse wouldn’t you say?
Sure.
Though, McCainisms are a lot scarier than Bushisms. Probably because we’ve had 8 years of Bushisms as a precursor, and now know how dangerous those stupid comments really are.
July 27th, 2008 at 1:23 pmI just couldn’t face the Sunday blabbfest so I listened to thelocal blabbfest and heard separate interviews from two Congressional candidates who, frankly, can’t be allowed in the same room together. Their takes offer an interesting comparison to McSpin and Sen. Obama. So interesting that they prompted an email, part of which I’ll share.
When the Republican candidate was asked about a “time line” in Iraq. (I was typing and watching so I paraphrase but I’m certain about the emphasized bits.)
“I think we should continue the ongoing drawdown and trust the President to act on the advice of his commanders on the ground”. Blather “horizon”, Presidents plan (!?!?!?) “horizon”, blather, “horizon”. “It would send a message of weakness to announce a fixed time line before we accomplish our goals“.
We can cross honesty and sound judgment from his list of strengths. And what “President’s plan” is he talking about? What goals?
His opponent, a retired Marine Capt. and Iraq combat Veteran, when asked the same question, said
“The best way to accomplish a difficult task is to assign your best people to the problem and motivate them to perform”. (The people of this state, this country, Iraq and the World)… want us to leave Iraq as soon as possible and we’ll never leave if we don’t have a goal. A target date… which we might have to change. (People on the other side of the issue including his opponent and the administration)… don’t realize that setting a date, and being forced by events to change it, is not a defeat or a surrender. It’s common sense“
July 27th, 2008 at 1:34 pmExcellent, pete. Thanks for sharing that email.
July 27th, 2008 at 1:39 pm(time…)
Let’s All Do The Time Warp
July 27th, 2008 at 1:49 pmYour welcome ralph. We can’t overstate the fact that they are all telling the same lies. And sheeple keep buying in.
July 27th, 2008 at 1:55 pmJim Wilke Says:
So?
Obama’s position is clear, and no amount of out-of-context quoting will change that.
And by the way, gas prices here are rocketing downward. Your little ANWR drilling fantasy was just that.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:09 pm‘We Were Greeted As Liberators’
In precisely the same way HE was treated as a liberator. The people he had been trying to kill pulled his worthless, murderous, worthless out of the wreck of his FIFTH airplane before he could drown. They weren’t gentle, but then there wasn’t a lot of time. McShame always claimed he was tortured, but I have thought, contrari-wise, that he mistook the efforts of the Vietnamese to fix him up, albeit without anesthesia, for torture.
Me? I’d forgive the Vietnamese. There wasn’t much anesthesia in Vietnam in 1967, and it was needed to dull the agoinies inflicted on the people by the likes of Bombin’ John.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:09 pmTypical answer from McForgot….
July 27th, 2008 at 2:13 pmtokin librul Says:
‘We Were Greeted As Liberators’
Have you seen, Dukester is asking for a commutation?
Think Bush will pardon him, in time for him to damage the McCain campaign?
July 27th, 2008 at 2:14 pmCareful Token librul, the trolls will vilify you for implying that America can make mistakes with war…….
I still don’t understand why we are talking about timetables when we should be talking about the fact that we should never have gone to Iraq to begin with.
How do you trolls explain that? It was a huge mistake and it seems like we should get out as soon as possible.
If, and it’s a big if where bush is concerned, if we had the genuine support of the other civilized nations of the world then this would have been resolved without war.
If bush had not nearly destroyed those relationships we might even be getting real help from them now in figuring out a way out of our obvious mistake.
History will show this to be a much larger blunder than viet-nam. Not just because it cost nearly the same but because so many innocent people were killed in the “Big Show” you know…..shock and awe.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:20 pmWhy is it so hard for our trolls to just say. “Yep. Sen. McCain just, either, told a fib or forgot what he said even after being reminded”.
That’s a mistake. No big deal. We all make them.
But. It becomes a big deal when the candidate, rather than admitting or even acknowledging a small error, sticks to a flat denial of something that’s part of the public record. And it’s just plain annoying, and a little depressing, when the 20%ers bother to try and deny the mistake rather than allow themselves to think that their anointed candidate might have a flaw.
I begin to suspect that, if doctors developed a serum that will raise anyone’s IQ by a hundred points, today’s Reichwingers would shoot anyone who tried to give them the shot. And they would murder by slow torture anyone who tried to give it to their children. Anything is allowed to protect the bubble of delusion.
Here’s a newsflash. Sen. McCain is a weak candidate who finds himself in the unenviable position of trying to sound sane while being beholden to an insane policy. And he’s not very good at it.
If they accepted that and moved on to some actual “straight talk” about real world issues we could have a constructive debate. I wouldn’t mind exchanging thoughts with someone who tried to make a rational case that we shouldn’t be gravely concerned about Sen. McCain’s obvious shortcomings. But when one side shoves their fingers in their ears and screams “I can’t hear you” it’s pointless.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:29 pmBecause Fred the Rethugs and the enabling pundits blow if off saying sure it was a mistake but that’s ancient history … or lot’s of Democrats voted for it too …
And for the newbies who did, face it, they had trumped up intelligence. But somebody with McCain’s lengthy “experience” he’s so proud of, shouldn’t he have known better. And why is it mistakes can only be dismissed when they’re committed by the right wing?
July 27th, 2008 at 2:30 pmBecause this is a progressive site, idiot, and you are no progressive. If you were you wouldn’t be carrying water for big oil. Since you are here to sell you’re big lies that makes you a “troll” get it? And unlike you, we’re here because we believe in something not to convince somebody else what to believe.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:33 pmWHAT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND is that nobody around here gives a rat’s a$$ what you think we need to understand. Nobody here believes a word you say, or follows your links or cares about your opinions.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:36 pmSays the rovian sock puppet……sorry you earn your title here by your posts. You have definatly earned it.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:37 pmA troll who’s an expert on oil prices?
What was it the day the “Oil Man” took office? What was it before he launched war? Why was “rising demand driving prices up” a week ago when, in fact, falling demand is driving prices down? Why are futures traders selling short and increasing supply through early releases? Why do we need panic drilling when demand and price are going down? Is the oil industry willing to invest in panic drilling? Why doesn’t the “Oil Man”, or any of his minions, appear not to know that the U.S. is the third largest oil producer in the world?
July 27th, 2008 at 2:39 pmJim Wilke Says:
This ain’t news.
Then why are you here, troll?
Do yourself a favor and go to little green footballs or redstate to post your drivel.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:39 pmSTILL no comment on the topic of the thread, Jim?
What exactly is the “Soros position”?
What exactly is is about George Soros that has you wingnuts so soil-your-trousers terrified?
(And just FYI, JImbo — there are a few conservative posters on here that actually attempt to offer reasonable arguments and y’know… contribute to the discussion. They get the odd “troll” epithet hurled their way, but most progressives. myself included, recognize and appreciate their efforts.
You’re not one of them.)
July 27th, 2008 at 2:39 pmJim Wilke Says:
Pete: Here’s what you folks need to understand – EVERY politician flip flops and changes position. EVERY SINGLE ONE and Saint Obama is no exception.
Most don’t do it in the space of five minutes, though. And most can remember what they said before they flipped.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:41 pmTrue enough Shayne except that I live in rural mid-western America and I knew it was a sham and a horrifying mistake when we went to Iraq. I suspect that you did too.
I think Democrats were on board for the move to Afganistan but bush went to Iraq without votes by congress……he mis-used a use of force vote meant for going after bin laden to invade Iraq.
They must answer for this calamity somtime in the future since it seems out of the picture for now. It will come up again and again…..I will see to it.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:46 pmJim Wilke Says:
Barfly – oil prices are indeed dropping which is good news……..until you realize that we are going to be thrilled to see $100/barrel again – and then think back and note that oil was at $75 last July and $49 in Jan ‘07.
I would think you’d present a better defense. You know how silly you sounded, trumpeting the false claims that the only way to reduce prices was to drill in ANWR and other sensitive areas?
They chumped you pretty good, eh?
July 27th, 2008 at 2:47 pmStupid troll. I call you a troll because I said, “Hey Troll”, and you answered! You took the name upon yourself.
You silly tit.
And there’s a great difference between playing politics and lying to advance an indefensible message. But you don’t need to evolve that far to get out of this hole.
All you have to do is: admit Sen. McCain made a minor mistake by denying something he clearly said, he worsened it by sticking with the denial after being reminded, and taken with the pattern of his recent behavior it’s a legitimate concern.
What’s so hard about that?
July 27th, 2008 at 2:50 pmNot one American need be barefoot while McCain produces enough flip-flops for us all. Goddam socialist.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:52 pmHow about a quick poll?
How many here have worries, questions, doubts, or concerns about Sen Obama’s stand on, at least, one issue?
I have several.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:56 pmI don’t have any doubts or concerns, Pete. I’ve never thought he was a perfect progressive candidate. If he was, he wouldn’t have earned the nomination. Heck, he wouldn’t have been elected to the Senate from Illinois.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:59 pmAnd Jim?
Here’s one for you:
Ex-insurgents Want More Money, or Else
July 25, 2008AFP
The Iraqi officer leading a U.S.-financed anti-jihadist group is in no mood for small talk — either the military gives him more money or he will pack his bags and rejoin the ranks of al-Qaeda.
“I’ll go back to al-Qaeda if you stop backing the Sahwa (Awakening) groups,” Col. Satar tells U.S. Lt. Matthew McKernon, as he tries to secure more funding for his men to help battle the anti-U.S. insurgents.
Most members of the Awakening groups are Sunni Arab former insurgents who themselves fought American troops under the al-Qaeda banner after the fall of the regime of executed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.
Some, like Satar, had served in Saddam’s army before joining Al-Qaeda. Others were members of criminal gangs before deciding to fight the insurgents, with the backing of the U.S. military.
They earn around 300 dollars a month and their presence at checkpoints and on patrol has become an essential component of the U.S.-led coalition’s strategy to restore order in the war-wracked country.
“I like my work,” said Satar, who is in charge of security south of Baquba in Iraq’s eastern Diyala province.
According to McKernon Satar has a contract with the U.S. military to employ 230 men “but he has more than 300″ under his command, which is why he wants more money to keep them happy.
The U.S. military knows perfectly well that many people joined Awakening groups simply because it was a good way to make money, and that if the cashflow dries up some would not hesitate to return to al-Qaeda.
In a bid to avoid this, the U.S.-led coalition is helping Awakening members to return to a “normal life,” according to US Admiral Patrick Driscoll.
He told AFP that options included helping them return to the lives they had before joining the insurgency or joining the Iraqi security forces.
Some 17,000 Awakening members have opted for the second choice, and 2,500 of them now hold administrative positions, Driscoll said.
But not everyone in Baquba is happy with the situation.
“Yesterday’s killers have now become our protectors,” said one sceptical resident who spoke on condition of anonymity. “Who should I trust to protect my family?”
Despite levels of violence nationwide hitting a four-year low, Diyala remains one of the most dangerous regions in Iraq because of the al-Qaeda presence.
On Thursday police said a woman suicide bomber attacked an Awakening patrol in central Baquba, killing eight people including a local Sahwa commander.
Little more than a year ago, Baquba was the scene of deadly fighting that forced many residents to flee.
Among them was the Shiite Wahab family. Despite simmering tensions that continue to grip Baquba, the family recently returned home to the Katun neighbourhood, a mostly Sunni area in the western part of town.
No sooner had they settled in than a home-made bomb blasted through the gate of their house. On Wednesday the eldest son, Mahmud, discovered a second bomb just yards away from the building.
American soldiers accompanied by Iraqi policemen and troops arrived to investigate, accompanied by Abu Zarra, an Awakening group commander of 300 men in Katun.
As bomb disposal teams examined the device, Abu Zarra was overheard by an AFP correspondent discussing with one of his men how much protection money they could extort from the Wahab family.
After the bomb was finally blown up by the experts, a U.S. Soldier teased Abu Zarra, telling him: “Isn’t this just like the good old days when you were the terrorist?”
Meanwhile the U.S. Army has files on all Awakening members — including finger prints and retinal identification.
“They know that we know who they are,” said Capt. Kevin Ryan.
http://www.military.com/news/article/exinsurgents-want-more-money-or-else.html?col=1186032310810
And if we don’t continue to keep paying this protection money, it all falls apart.
Feel better now, Jim?
July 27th, 2008 at 3:02 pm“Here’s what they have to understand”. Their projected strawman, of a partisan “left”, doesn’t exist. It’s no more real than the vast worldwide network of bloodthirsty, nuclear armed, terrorists.
Blinded by fear and misplaced trust, they are the ones who can’t see the obvious faults of their own side. We are well aware of the faults on “ours”.
It is ironic that someone who cries “they all have faults” is so ignorant of the fallibility of the people who abused his trust, and self interest, at every turn.
July 27th, 2008 at 3:05 pmgummitch Says:
I don’t have any doubts or concerns, Pete. I’ve never thought he was a perfect progressive candidate. If he was, he wouldn’t have earned the nomination. Heck, he wouldn’t have been elected to the Senate from Illinois.
July 27th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
I guess I’m pretty close to that view. I know that he will take some positions that will tick me off based on his past allegiances. But, I don’t question, for a second, that he’s the best candidate standing to deal with real-time emergencies.
And despite the Reichwing whining, I think that performances like his trip abroad will make that more, and more, clear. Even the media’s inane “we can’t believe he didn’t screw that up” is serving to illustrate he hasn’t screwed up a single appearance while McSpin can’t make it back from the john without sticking his head up his arse.
In a “reality based” reality we would be swamped in the praise being heaped on Sen. Obama for his rare ability to address people of EVERY group and has not yet failed to impress as a thoughtful, knowledgeable, careful, and often inspiring speaker.
If the best the Reich can come up with is that he’s being “too Presidential” and “presumptuous”? He’ll do just fine.
July 27th, 2008 at 3:21 pmThanks for that post barfly.
“After the bomb was finally blown up by the experts, a U.S. Soldier teased Abu Zarra, telling him: “Isn’t this just like the good old days when you were the terrorist?””
Same game, opposite goal post.
July 27th, 2008 at 3:24 pmAh well, it all pays the same, eh?
sarc/off
I’ll second Nevar’s thanx.
Obviously the Reichwing didn’t learn the “Yellowstone rule” of feeding bears. Mostly, what we learned was, if you run out of food to give the bear? The bear eats your face.
We damn well better get our people out before the checks start bouncing.
July 27th, 2008 at 3:39 pmYou’re welcome, Nevar.
When McCain speaks of a hundred years presence in Iraq, I think this is what he means. US tax dollars, not soldiers.
If US entrepreneurs truly wanted to make money in Iraq, they’d forget about the oil, and build solar/wind generating stations in the desert, and sell cheap electricity to the Iraqi government.
July 27th, 2008 at 3:40 pmLiberators….right, for about a minute and a half, out of an occupation hour!!!!
July 27th, 2008 at 3:52 pmKeep it up, John. By the time November comes, you will be drooling and spitting gibberish, unable to remember what you said yesterday, changing positions, and exhibiting rapidly advancing senility.
July 27th, 2008 at 4:06 pmMcCain is simply trapped in a twisty maze of flip-flops, all alike (or all different).
July 27th, 2008 at 4:52 pmAnd I love that everyone who dares to disagree with the Soro/left wing position is branded as a troll.
~Jim Wilke
Lookie. Mr Wilke is yet another child left behind who still doesn’t know what a troll is. Here, once again (pay attention this time):
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community [...] to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
Troll
What in the world is the “Soros position”? Is that sex-related, somehow? Silly troll…
July 27th, 2008 at 5:45 pmMcCain: “I didn’t use the word timetable, but if I did, it’s because it was a good timetable. Anything is a good timetable”.
July 27th, 2008 at 5:52 pmThe latest Gallup Daily Tracking poll has just rolled out, and Barack has increased his lead for the third straight day, stretching his lead to 49% – 40%.
The more McCain falls behind, the more vitriolic he becomes.
As Frank Rich notes in today’s NY Times…
What was most striking about the Obama speech in Berlin was not anything he said so much as the alternative reality it fostered: many American children have never before seen huge crowds turn out abroad to wave American flags instead of burn them.
July 27th, 2008 at 5:52 pmWhere the hell are the John Wilkes Booths of this era?
July 27th, 2008 at 6:06 pmYou betcha.
July 27th, 2008 at 6:28 pmHi Conservapation
July 27th, 2008 at 6:29 pmJohn is a spoiled kid full of entitlement?
Well that is sure nice. Still I won’t be voting for him. Which experiences do you think most pertinent?
July 27th, 2008 at 6:40 pm“No he is a bumbling man full of experience.”
(Fixed it fer ya.)
He is an experienced bumbler. How many planes down? 5?
July 27th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Questioned by Blitzer about Maliki liking the 16-month timetable, McCain said:
July 27th, 2008 at 6:48 pm“I think it is a pretty good timetable, as we should have—er–horizon for withdrawal, based on conditions on the ground.”
Conservapation Says:
Obama just looks good to trendy priviledged coll students.
You left out the 50% of American voters and the 200,000 Germans.
July 27th, 2008 at 6:51 pm“judgement to lead”? This sounds sort of trite. Wanna expound a bit. I had no idea so many of those superdelegates where still in college
July 27th, 2008 at 6:52 pmprivileged college students like MCCain, GWB, GHWB, Quayle, etc.? Obama leads 49%-40%.
July 27th, 2008 at 6:59 pmVanthomas @ 140 FLAGGED
July 27th, 2008 at 7:48 pmI take any reference to an assasin to infer a desire to have someone assinated. Since this thread is about McInsane one could infer he is the desired target. But why the use of Booth? Would not Oswald have been a better assasin to use?
Thus I infer the use of Booth is to remind of Lincoln that reminds of slavery that lead to Barack.
Thus that ignorant poster is a troll. Progressives don’t view assasination as an option chosen by reasonable people, unlike republiscums.
BEGONE Vanthomas
July 27th, 2008 at 8:02 pmmcchimpy is lost in his own mind. the man should be in the hospital not campaigning.
I went over to little green f-ups to understand their love for mcchimpy. while they made silly references about Sen. Obama such as “no-sweat Obama” and chimpy’s warmongering would become better in the future (60 yrs), I didn’t find any substance, just as I thought. they can’t defend their candidate.
mcchimpy is the best the repugs can do after 8 yrs of chimpy
July 27th, 2008 at 9:24 pmJim Wilke Says:
——————————————————————————–
And I love that everyone who dares to disagree with the Soro/left wing position is branded as a troll.
Sorry, is “a sniveling coward, apologist to the worst president in this nation’s history, idiot, willing pawn and complete and utter tool” better than troll?
OK, point taken
July 27th, 2008 at 9:37 pmTell that to the 4000+ dead US forces, ‘Grampy’ McSame. Then, go home and have Cindy change your (adult) diaper. Literally, you have reached the point of senility where you obviosuly don’t know whether to shit or go blind.
July 27th, 2008 at 9:59 pmHey…McCain is just pandering to both sides of the issue.
When he says he supports a timetable, he is pandering to those Republican voters (however few they are) who want to bring the troops home.
When he says he does not support a timetable, he is smooching the butts of those Repubs who think we should stay in Iraq indefinitely.
July 27th, 2008 at 10:01 pmGame of Life Says:
I went over to little green f-ups to understand their love for mcchimpy. while they made silly references about Sen. Obama such as “no-sweat Obama” and chimpy’s warmongering would become better in the future (60 yrs), I didn’t find any substance, just as I thought. they can’t defend their candidate.
These are neos, who gained their primary political understanding from two-dimensional video game symbolism. They don’t understand the complexities of international dialog. They thought that the capture of Saddam was “Game Over” for the forces that attacked us on 9/11, and can’t fathom why the muslims haven’t all been cowed into submission with our “shock and awe” demonstrations of military power.
Captain America is their icon, but he’s a captain that now believes in torture, wiretapping, and suspension of american legal traditions, to achieve his goals.
July 27th, 2008 at 11:52 pmJim Wilke Says:
July 27th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
You’re ignoring the fact that the Republican policies since the election of Bush have directly affected the rapid increase in the proce of oil. Where was the price sitting when Clinton left office? I’ll answer that for you:
(The first column is raw price, and the second is adjusted for inflation to last year’s – 2007 – rate)
1999 $16.56 $21.30
2000 $27.39 $34.16
2001 $23.00 $27.92
2002 $22.81 $27.22
2003 $27.69 $32.34
2004 $37.66 $42.80
2005 $50.04 $54.99
2006 $58.30 $62.11
2007 $64.20 $66.40
So under Bush, the price of oil has nearly tripled, and we’re supposed to think that Obama’s policies will be the worse of the two for our economy? For being such a shill for the oil companies, you sure seem like you don’t know what you’re talking about. McCain’s pandering switch to the advocacy of offshore drilling is just the indication we need to tell us that our problem – the very way we’re handling the energy crisis – will not be repaired by a McCain presidency, but instead he will make the problem worse.
July 28th, 2008 at 12:22 ambarfly Says@155
Exactly! they would be pleased if things got worse. they are silly and irrelevant.
barfly I thought you are troll. What happen?
July 28th, 2008 at 12:45 ambarfly@128
chimpy’s antidote to peace and democracy is paying and arming the the Sunnis (don’t forget chimpy killed their leaders) the very people he considers a “terrorist.”
repugs won’t face the facts before them.
It like the village that painted houses on clapboard to impress military leaders who were never the wiser.
July 28th, 2008 at 12:53 amPete@130
Man, you said it.
No candidate is perfect but chimpy is down right dangerous.
Even the media’s inane “we can’t believe he didn’t screw that up” is serving to illustrate he hasn’t screwed up a single appearance while McSpin can’t make it back from the john without sticking his head up his arse.
This made me sick. How dare they wish for the worse to happen. they want the US to fail. Idiots!
July 28th, 2008 at 1:01 ambarfly I thought you are troll. What happen?
Sorry. I’m one of TP’s moss-backed original posters (along with Zooey, Dlet, unbelievable, and a few that have since moved on.
But I occasionally waver in my progressivehood, being an old-fashioned, paleo-liberal.
July 28th, 2008 at 1:03 amIt like the village that painted houses on clapboard to impress military leaders who were never the wiser.
Potemkin City, USA.
Bring plenty of cash…
July 28th, 2008 at 1:05 amKeith Says:
Questioned by Blitzer about Maliki liking the 16-month timetable, McCain said:
“I think it is a pretty good timetable, as we should have—er–horizon for withdrawal, based on conditions on the ground.”
It was obvious he didn’t know how to use “horizon” in a sentence because it more nonsense from his leader. mcchimpy shouldn’t be proud of the “based on condition on the ground” statement because that’s a given. he grins after saying this like he’s some genius. he doesn’t want conditions to change for the better. cheesy as hell.
July 28th, 2008 at 1:10 amIt was obvious he didn’t know how to use “horizon” in a sentence because it more nonsense from his leader.
And Fox commentators let the cat out, saying “a horizon recedes as you attempt to approach it.”
July 28th, 2008 at 1:13 amI guess I should have prefaced that last comment with “ironically,” lest I be thought a troll ;)
July 28th, 2008 at 1:17 amI guess at this point we could wager for “political points,” handicapping when McCain’s next media flub occurs.
I’d guess Tuesday…
And the topic will be illegal immigration.
July 28th, 2008 at 1:26 amFor ten political points, Alex.
July 28th, 2008 at 1:26 amhttp://www.mockpaperscissors.com/?p=8328
I need say no more…
July 28th, 2008 at 1:41 amJim Wilke Says:
I’ll accept that you’re from Alaska – but can you comment on the recent decline in oil prices, and how it actually legitimizes the recent legislative push for drilling in ecologically sensitive areas? It would seem to be a contradiction.
July 28th, 2008 at 1:45 amJim Wilkie @ 167
Here’s another hint. Another one of Obama’s platform policies is that he’ll conduct a phased withdrawal from Iraq. Once we’re not incessantly dumping billions into that effort, complete with the huge no-bid contracts for services that the military should have been providing for itself the whole time, then the money freed up can be put to better use in the domestic endeavors such as the ones Obama proposes.
I’d much rather have my tax money go to programs designed to improve my quality of life here, rather than going into the pocket of defense subcontractors, especially when the services they’re contracted to provide are as inefficient and problematic as they have proven to be so far.
July 28th, 2008 at 1:46 amAnd by te way, Jim, if we’re comparing the candidates and the projected costs of their economic and social proposals, you may want to rethink your criticism of Obama. According to this site and its Progress Report, an article on McCain’s economic policy and proposals found this:
And I never said you had connected Bush with the rise in oil prices. I made that connection to point out that your comment about rejoicing over prices that are still ridiculously high was a non-sequitur, considering that very trend of precipitous increase can be directly attributed to both this administration and their policies that favor the oil companies, who have enjoyed record profits during that span of time, despite the fact that their prices have contributed to the decline in our economy and the individual consumer’s buying power.
July 28th, 2008 at 1:56 amAnd at the risk of commenting in streaks, this statement just makes the mind boggle:
Jim Wilke @ 167
I could care less what it would cost the government, though that asserting is still patently false. You can’t honestly think that the oil companies, in their drilling and extraction of this oil, would not pass any of the costs for it onto the government, not to mention we consumers, can you? If so, you’re being naive in thinknig that they will foot the entire bill themsleves. Their recent record of action simply does not bear out that claim, because quite simply, they are an industry that – despite the price of their prime commodity skyrocketing – has enjoyed record profits in recent years due to their tendency to pass expenses on to their customers. Not to mention the fact that they could begin drilling domestically today if they wanted – all they would have to do is begin the exploitation of the millions of acres they have already leased from the federal government.
The truth is that, should domestic drilling be approved, the oil companies would not be able to get any of that oil on the market for many years, while the expenses they accrue in drilling for it would definitely reach the consumer in the short-term. So actually, domestic drilling would put a short-term cost on the consumer, while not providing any appreciable benefit until far into the long-term, and even when that benefit arrives it will be negligible.
July 28th, 2008 at 2:07 ambrokenSoldier Says:
Wasting a lot of keystrokes, bc.
“Jim” is a two-dimensional construct, devoid of logical thought.
He has been programmed to respond with two-dimensional concepts.
You might as well stomp on an anthill, to convince the ants to stop invading your house.
July 28th, 2008 at 2:15 am“LobbyDelegtes.com is a great tool, I have contacted all my State Delegates for free through email, I have come accross another tool from the same company http://www.statedemocracy.org its also free and I can contact my lawmakers, apply for an absentee ballot & voter registration and on election day I can locate my polling places. Great tool…. use it”
July 28th, 2008 at 2:27 amIt seems “Jim Wilke” has been exposed:
Why might Alaskans favor Arctic drilling? A $2,000 check
By Wesley Loy | Anchorage Daily News
JUNEAU — This year’s Permanent Fund dividend check — what Alaskans receive each year from the state’s oil-revenue investment fund — is likely to be more than $2,000, the first time since the state began making the payments in 1982 that the dividend has topped two grand.
The biggest previous dividend was $1963.86 in 2000. Last year’s was $1,654.
The dividend spins off the Alaska Permanent Fund, the state’s $37 billion oil wealth savings account.
Although oil prices have hit record highs recently, it’s not the price of oil that determines the size of the dividend. Rather, it’s the profits Permanent Fund managers generate by investing in stocks, bonds, real estate and other things.
The dividend is based on an average of the fund’s profits over the past five years.
Using the latest figures from the Permanent Fund, and factoring in some assumptions such as how many residents will qualify for a check, the Anchorage Daily News estimates this fall’s dividend will be $2,080 to $2,100.
If that proves accurate, a family of four would receive dividends totaling at least $8,320.
Dividends are scheduled to start going out in early October as either direct bank deposits or as paper checks, with more than 600,000 residents — men, women and children who lived in the state for all of 2007 — expected to receive a payment.
Mike Burns, the Permanent Fund’s executive director, said the dividend is a byproduct of the fund’s success, which is novel among the states.
“This is an extraordinary socioeconomic experiment that has grown and paid off beyond anybody’s expectations,” he said.
The dividend annually provides a powerful punch to the local economy, with dividends totaling more than $1.2 billion expected to gush out this fall. Merchants ranging from airlines to car dealerships often mount special sales to try to capture some of these dollars.
The McDowell Group, a Juneau-based economic research firm, in March presented survey results on what people do with their household’s dividends. Statewide, 37 percent said they spend the greatest portion on living expenses such as rent, utility bills or groceries, with another 32 percent saying they save or invest the money. After that, the priorities are debt repayment, vacations, major purchases such as TVs or snowmobiles, and charitable donations.
So Jim, how much profit of the “investment” did you make last year, fraud?
July 28th, 2008 at 2:30 amOr I should ask, “Jim, how much did you stand to directly profit from any decision to drill in ANWR?
Come clean, now; you’ve been found out.
July 28th, 2008 at 2:38 amEvery Alaskan has been recieving the Alaska Permanent Fund Dividend since 1980. It has been as high as $1,964 and as low as $361. This makes me a fraud ……….. how?
By not mentioning either the fund, or the fact that Alaskans are using this fund like a piggybank.
You stand to directly profit from any decisiont to drill in ANWR, yet mentioned it — never.
July 28th, 2008 at 2:47 amAnd sorry to rain on St. T. Boone’s parade, but:
Wind energy faces daunting challenges
By Dave Montgomery | McClatchy Newspapers
WASHINGTON — Led by billionaire Texas oilman T. Boone Pickens, pioneers in the emerging wind-power industry are touting their product as The Next Big Thing as they chart a course to produce at least 20 percent of the nation’s electricity in just over two decades.
But reaching that goal won’t be easy. The most daunting challenge centers on the fundamental question of how to get the product to customers. That will require building thousands of miles of transmission lines to carry electricity from turbines clustered on wind-swept prairies in America’s heartland to distant cities and towns.
Industry leaders are calling for a national commitment to wind power on the same scale as the Eisenhower administration’s commitment to constructing the Interstate Highway System. Erecting a transmission grid for wind-generated electricity, they say, would require up to 20,000 miles of new lines at a minimum cost of $60 billion — and possibly much more.
The undertaking faces “all kinds of problems,” from right-of-way issues to resistance by “not-in-my-backyard” groups opposed to the aesthetic intrusion of giant wind turbines, says Steven P. Lindenberg, with the office of wind and hydropower technologies in the Department of Energy.
“It’s huge,” Mike Sloan, president of Austin, Texas-based Vitrus Energy, says in describing the challenge. “If you don’t have a transmission system to get it there, it becomes useless.”
With the price of gasoline shooting past $4 a gallon, wind power has emerged as a promising source of clean, renewable energy. Pickens, who amassed a fortune in the oil business, is now touting wind power with a $58 million multimedia campaign denouncing the nation’s dependence on foreign oil.
The 80-year-old chairman of BP Capital Management, who is building the world’s biggest wind farm in the Texas Panhandle, urged Congress this week to fully commit to wind energy during a series of recent appearances on Capitol Hill. Pickens says Americans can reduce foreign oil dependence by more than a third by ramping up wind power for electricity generation, thus freeing up the country’s abundant natural gas resources to power environmentally friendly cars, trucks and buses.
More than 25,000 wind turbines are operating nationwide, and industry leaders envision a potential boom in coming years. The American Wind Energy Association has declared a goal of 20 percent wind energy by 2030, buoyed by an Energy Department study concluding that the goal was feasible.
“This is a technology that has been fully vetted,” said AWEA President James A. Walker of the California-based enXco, which builds wind energy projects nationwide. “This is ready for prime time.”
The U.S. wind industry started in California in the 1970s when an oil shortage increased the cost of oil-based electricity. After a series of ups and downs, wind power has surged with concern over global warming and latter-day oil spikes. It grew by 45 percent in 2007, accounting for 30 percent of all new power generating capacity added in the United States that year.
Most of the nation’s turbine farms are located in the “wind corridor” stretching through the center of the country from Texas to the Canadian border. Texas, with more than 4,000 turbines, is the biggest wind producer, surpassing California for that title in 2006.
But wind power is also what experts call a “location-constrained resource,” meaning that it can’t be transported like coal or oil and is thus dependent on a network of lines and towers to reach a market often hundreds of miles away. It is thus burdened by a “chicken-and-egg problem” — wind farms don’t want to locate in a site without transmission lines, and utilities don’t want to erect lines where there are no wind farms.
Additionally, Pickens told a Senate committee, “long-distance transmission is only economic if it is built to high capacity, which means that there must be a large amount of generation capacity in one place.”
Lindenberg, who participated in a briefing on wind energy for congressional aides, said existing lines are capable of carrying only a small amount of projected wind power, thus requiring an ambitious plan to construct new lines and towers. Walker pegged the cost at $60 billion but Pickens projects a cost of about $200 billion.
July 28th, 2008 at 2:54 amJim Wilke Says:
My thinking is that regardless who is elected in November, oil prices will continue to fall until early next spring.
Or until about Jan. 20, after the holiday, and inauguration.
Then, there will be no reason for the financially expensive political pretense.
July 28th, 2008 at 3:00 amAnyway, back to McCain. He’s been stumbling a lot, since the media have spotlighted his growing list of inconsistencies. The republican convention will be a yawner, and he’ll have to kick that dead cat to get it to bounce. He’s out of step with average americans, and has a priviledged political outlook.
I only wonder if the conservative Supreme Court justices aren’t even now brainstorming their next coup rationales, just in case.
July 28th, 2008 at 3:18 amAhh, wasting more keystrokes…but then again, I lack the willpower to avoid it. I’m not perfect, what can I say?
Jim Wilke Says:
I see you ignored the part of my post that asserts that the money we will save by removing the financial burden this war is placing on our budget will go a long way towards financing said plans.
RE: your failure to recognize my above point, it will be much quicker than the estimates that say expanded drilling will take up to – and in some estimates, more than – twenty years to see an appreciable benefit.
What people are doing with them today – drive them. Although they may have to either practice greater conservation in their fuel consumption or switch vehicles to increase their fuel efficiency. In any case, how does this have anything to do with the issue at hand – your specious criticism that Obama’s plans will cost too much for us to implement?
And as for this statement concerning the report I cited:
Did you actually read the info at the link I provided? I doubt it, because if you did, and you had questions about their objectivity and motivations, you’d have come across this page that lists their senior staff and their credentials. On it, you can clearly see that individuals who have worked for both major parties are present, including a few who worked for Reagan, and some who even worked under Bush. You should do your research before you throw around accusations of bias.
July 28th, 2008 at 3:29 amJim Wilke asks: “America needs to invest $150 billion in alternative energy. Where does that money come from?”
Are you kidding, Jim? The war in Iraq is costing us $200 million/day, and that’s just for expenses directly related to ongoing military operations. That doesn’t include the money spent rehabilitating wounded troops, which has been estimated at over $300 billion. Ending the war would free up plenty of money for alternative fuel research.
Denying that we need to take this course of action now is delusional. The entire ANWR would supply our petroleum needs for about 12-15 years. What then? If we had listened to Jimmy Carter, we would have been investing in alternative energy technologies for the past 30 years and perhaps by now we would have been in a position that we didn’t feel compelled to invade Iraq to try to ensure our access to oil and domination over the region where most of it is located. I for one don’t think the U.S. national interest is well served by dependence upon oil, and I don’t believe trying to squeeze the last few drops form a rapidly dessicating lemon is a sound long-term energy policy.
July 28th, 2008 at 9:49 amBagger -
How is Obama’s desire to move troops from Iraq to Afghanistan a sign of “inconsistency.” While he has been critical of the war in Iraq, Obama has never questioned the nedd for U.S. forces in Afghanistan. In fact, he has said before that Bush’s decision to invade Iraq diverted our attention from the Afghanistan, which Obama has consistently identified as the main terrorist threat.
You talk about us “winning” in Iraq, but that term in this context is virtually an oxymoron. The stated goals of the invasion were to topple Saddam’s regime and destroy Iraq’s capability to produce WMDs. As Bush would say, “mission accomplished.” Of course, our intervention unleashed the sectarian tensions held in check by Saddam for so long, leading to the current (let’s call a spade a spade here) civil war. We are now outsiders intervening in that war; the notion that we can “win” anything in this situation is ludicrous, unless we consciously choose one side to back and assist that side in winning. Whatever was left of the pitifully small “al Qaeda in Mesopotamia” is pretty much spent, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that means an end to the violence. The “insurgency” will continue – our presence notwithstanding – until the Iraqis settle their own internal disputes, and our presence there is not advancing that process. I’d much rather shift our troops to Afghanistan – where at least we can identify the enemy – than continue to act as Iraq’s police force.
July 28th, 2008 at 11:00 amJim Wilke Says:
jjcomet:
According to an article here on TP, the Iraq war has cost us $648 billion. That’s a huge amount of money – but not enough to pay for wind power. Not nearly enough.
If we don’t drill for more oil to solve our short and medium range issues, you can count on 2 things:
1. Oil will go back up – way up
2. Taxes will be raised to pay for alternative energy.
What he neglects to mention, is that there are hundreds of wells already drilled, and waiting for extraction. They were capped back in the Seventies, because the oil wasn’t as easily exrtacted and refined as the stuff we were increasingly getting from other countries. That oil is still sitting there, waiting. Jim’s mad because the prices are now dropping, and his Chicken Little act has been exposed.
They punked you, Jim. Get over it.
July 28th, 2008 at 2:38 pmDid Al Gore warn his audience that they would have to pay the price tag for a world war to pay for his plan?
And Bush’s idiotic plan to “liberate” Iraq? Did he warn us how much it would cost?
Get real.
July 28th, 2008 at 2:42 pmJim Wilke Says:
——————————————————————————–
barfly, oil is $125+ plus a barrel – and you would have us believe that oil companies have oil in the ground, bought and paid for …….. and they would rather spend money drilling for oil and shipping it from the Middle East?
Believe what you want, but the oil has a high sulfur content, and refineries can’t currently handle it, without installing new equipment.
That same kind of thinking says that somewhere there’s a carburetor that gets 200 mpg but the oil companies bought the patent and destroyed it.
Nice try, for a strawman. I lived in Oklahoma during the late seventies, and well remember when those wells were capped, because the middle east crude was easier (and cheaper) to refine.
Don’t feel too bad about being led around by the nose by the oil companies. You have lots of company.
July 28th, 2008 at 10:49 pmThe reality still is this: Obama’s current Iraq “timetable” is longer then any he has offered before, and longer than the “timetable” most of his political opponents have offered up until now.
That’s just silly. McCain has already said he’d be OK with troops in Iraq for a hundred years.
Next.
July 28th, 2008 at 10:52 pmWhat else is new?
August 15th, 2008 at 7:33 pmThe GOP is famous for deceit!
Let’s see: Sedam Hussein caused 9-11.
Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.
Iraqi oil would pay for the war.
We will be greeted with open arms as liberators.
Tax breaks for the wealthy will help the economy.
McCain had an Alzheimer’s moment afew weeks ago when he forgot his military voting record, let me remind him: John McCain missed 10 of the past 14 votes on Iraq.
McCain had an Alzheimer’s moment a few weeks ago when he forgot his military voting record, let me remind him: John McCain in September 2007: voted against the Webb amendment calling for adequate troop rest between deployments.
John McCain in May 2006, voted against an amendment that would provide $20 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) for health care facilities.
John McCain in April 2006, was one of only 13 Senators to vote against $430,000,000 for the Department of Veteran Affairs for Medical Services for outpatient care and treatment for veterans.
John McCain in March 2006, voted against increasing Veterans medical services funding by $1.5 billion in FY 2007 to be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes.
John McCain in March 2004, once again voted for abusive tax loopholes over veterans when he voted against creating a reserve fund to allow for an increase in Veterans’ medical care by $1.8 billion by eliminating abusive tax loopholes. Jeez, McCain really loves those tax loopholes for corporations, since he voted for them over our veterans’ needs.
John McCain in October 2003, voted to table an amendment by Senator Dodd that called for an additional $322,000,000 for safety equipment for United States forces in Iraq and to reduce the amount provided for reconstruction in Iraq by $322,000,000.
John McCain in April 2003, urged other Senate members to table a vote (which never passed) to provide more than $1 billion for National Guard and Reserve equipment in Iraq related to a shortage of helmets, tents, bullet-proof inserts, and tactical vests.
August 15th, 2008 at 8:01 pmThis is another example that the “old world jounalism of Murrow, Cronkite and Rather is dead and buried. In the case of the Time Magazine reporter Ms Tumulty, she seems to think the finding out the who, what, where, when and how have been replaced with a steno pad, which she records what ABC said in rebuttle to the complaint of Congressman Kucinich. There is a great disconnect with what happened and the points made by ABC. She asks little of no questions to ABC. She takes what is handed to her and repeats it vebatim and then calls that reporting. I call is stenography. Lida Sohbet sohbet sesli chat Gelinlik Modelleri
January 11th, 2009 at 11:10 amGod is watching your blatant lies, Mr. McCain! One must wonder how the most absent of any senator (McCain) can reprimand anyone else – Dem or Repub. He’s never there! He never votes! Let’s all remember that – he has been absent from voting more than ANYONE ELSE. So, Mr. lying hypocrite McCain- shut up until you can actually show up & vote, you pathetic liar.
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