EXCLUSIVE: To Provoke War, Cheney Considered Proposal To Dress Up Navy Seals As Iranians And Shoot At Them
EXCLUSIVE: To Provoke War, Cheney Considered Proposal To Dress Up Navy Seals As Iranians And Shoot At Them
Speaking at the Campus Progress journalism conference earlier this month, Seymour Hersh — a Pulitzer-Prize winning journalist for The New Yorker — revealed that Bush administration officials held a meeting recently in the Vice President’s office to discuss ways to provoke a war with Iran.
In Hersh’s most recent article, he reports that this meeting occurred in the wake of the overblown incident in the Strait of Hormuz, when a U.S. carrier almost shot at a few small Iranian speedboats. The “meeting took place in the Vice-President’s office. ‘The subject was how to create a casus belli between Tehran and Washington,’” according to one of Hersh’s sources.
During the journalism conference event, I asked Hersh specifically about this meeting and if he could elaborate on what occurred. Hersh explained that, during the meeting in Cheney’s office, an idea was considered to dress up Navy Seals as Iranians, put them on fake Iranian speedboats, and shoot at them. This idea, intended to provoke an Iran war, was ultimately rejected:
HERSH: There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don’t we build — we in our shipyard — build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up.
Might cost some lives. And it was rejected because you can’t have Americans killing Americans. That’s the kind of — that’s the level of stuff we’re talking about. Provocation. But that was rejected.
Watch it:
Hersh argued that one of the things the Bush administration learned during the encounter in the Strait of Hormuz was that, “if you get the right incident, the American public will support” it.
“Look, is it high school? Yeah,” Hersh said. “Are we playing high school with you know 5,000 nuclear warheads in our arsenal? Yeah we are. We’re playing, you know, who’s the first guy to run off the highway with us and Iran.”
Transcript:
HERSH: There was a meeting. Among the items considered and rejected — which is why the New Yorker did not publish it, on grounds that it wasn’t accepted — one of the items was why not…
There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don’t we build — we in our shipyard — build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up. Might cost some lives.
And it was rejected because you can’t have Americans killing Americans. That’s the kind of — that’s the level of stuff we’re talking about. Provocation. But that was rejected.
So I can understand the argument for not writing something that was rejected — uh maybe. My attitude always towards editors is they’re mice training to be rats.
But the point is jejune, if you know what that means. Silly? Maybe. But potentially very lethal. Because one of the things they learned in the incident was the American public, if you get the right incident, the American public will support bang-bang-kiss-kiss. You know, we’re into it.
…What happened in the Gulf was, in the Straits, in early January, the President was just about to go to the Middle East for a visit. So that was one reason they wanted to gin it up. Get it going.
Look, is it high school? Yeah. Are we playing high school with you know 5,000 nuclear warheads in our arsenal? Yeah we are. We’re playing, you know, who’s the first guy to run off the highway with us and Iran.
If this story sounds familiar, that's because it is. In one of David Manning's famous memos describing a prewar meeting between George Bush and Tony Blair, he says that Bush admitted that WMD was unlikely to be found in Iraq and then mused on some possible options for justifying a war anyway:"The U.S. was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in U.N. colours," the memo says, attributing the idea to Mr. Bush. "If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach."In the end, of course, we didn't do this. We just didn't bother with any pretext at all.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Jeepers,Batman!
July 31st, 2008 at 1:22 pmMight cost some lives. And it was rejected because you can’t have Americans killing Americans. That’s the kind of — that’s the level of stuff we’re talking about. Provocation.
Two words to describe Dick:
Mucking.
Foron!
Too even consider a pretense to war by having Americans killing Americans?????
July 31st, 2008 at 1:22 pmUn-fcking-believable!!!
A war with Iran sends to oil prices straight up. Great for Dickie and Haliburton, too! As Randi Rhodes once said, “They are just stealing folks. It’s as simple as that.”
July 31st, 2008 at 1:26 pmStuff the fat dick into an Iranian uniform and let him loose on the Iran/Iraq border. I wonder which way he would run.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:27 pmSpreading freedom yet again.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:29 pmWow… criminal…
July 31st, 2008 at 1:29 pmTo Provoke War, Cheney Considered Proposal To Dress Up Navy Seals As Iranians And Shoot At Them
No wonder this Country is in the mess its in.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:29 pmThe real president behind puppet Bush is totally nucking futz.
War with Iran is all but assured. The only way Bushco will fail to strike is if there are still flag officers with the will, and clout, to refuse attack orders.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:29 pmDon’t know whether to laugh or cry. I can’t buy everything Hersh says, but he’s right more than he’s wrong.
OT – discussion the other day why Helen Thomas wasn’t asking the press secretary about the IG report on Goodling. Just got an email from the press club. Helen’s recuperating from a hospital stay and hasn’t been at the WH for a few weeks. We should all wish her well — last of the great UPIers from when that news service was on top – a long, long time ago.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:30 pmThat’s right….Freedom’s on the run.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:30 pmHummmm. is that what they did on 9/11 by design or neglect.?…Blessings
July 31st, 2008 at 1:30 pmBut, of course, we will NEVER see this on the MSM. Might be too dangerous for the American public to really know what their ‘fearless leaders’ are doing.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:30 pmDC loves war-GOOD. Send him to Afghanistan to fight. Bet it takes less than two seconds for him to catch some friendly fire.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:31 pmThis story is truly sickening and deeply disturbing. The idea that the Vice President of the United States would actually sit down for a meeting in his office to discuss different scenarios in which the Administration could trick Iran into what would become World War III? And then to try to convince the American citizens and the world community that they are righteous and vindicated for all their recent warmongering! THIS STORY NEEDS TO BE THE LEAD IN ON EVERY G-DAMNED NEWS BROADCAST IN THE WORLD!!! I mean Jeebus Christ on a biscuit if there EVER existed an action deserving of impeachment/imprisonment and public execution this man, our Vice President, has done it and more! NOTHING this maniacal scumbag does is in the best interest of our Country! I’m getting to the point of outrage where I don’t know what to do anymore when a political hack Speaker of the House refuses to even consider impeaching these criminals. God, every time you think that they couldn’t possibly top there criminality and lack of basic morals they leave their past immoral actions far back in the dust. When this cold-hearted sleezeball finally dies there will be cheering in the streets all around the world!
July 31st, 2008 at 1:31 pmNobody put down the idea of using some Iraqi insurgents bodies dressed as Iranian soldiers as casus belli, mind it.
And take a long look to yourselves if you’re only outraged because there would be Americans dead in this Tonkin Gulf strategy, no matter if the casus belli were a made up incident. Hear trolls?
July 31st, 2008 at 1:31 pmWait, I don’t understand. We’d need to do something to help start a war? I thought the scary brown people would just attack us on their own. Right? Axis of evil, smoking guns, mushroom clouds, etc.
Jeebus, these guys suck.
What’s the troll defense here? “They were only talking about it, they didn’t do it!” Why would they even need to talk about it? Unless of course, they just want (need) more war.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:32 pmYa Faiz – I think there’s a link broken somewhere. Every link in this article seems to be linking to itself.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:33 pmAs witch1 noted, reading stuff like this makes some of the nuttier theories about 9/11 almost understandable.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:33 pmraynman Says:
As witch1 noted, reading stuff like this makes some of the nuttier theories about 9/11 almost understandable.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:33 pm Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
“The fact that I’m paranoid doesn’t mean that somebody stalks me actually”.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:35 pmHERSH: There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war.
Wouldn’t creating a “false-flag” incident to provoke a war be considered treason? If not, it should be. If this can be proven, then Cheney should be brought up on charges.
I am hoping and praying that Obama goes after each and every crime committed by this administration. If he doesn’t, he will leave Pandora’s Box open for misdeeds by other administrations, including his own.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:35 pmGimme a Break Says:
Don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I can’t buy everything Hersh says, but he’s right more than he’s wrong.
He was right about Bushco giving arms and money (bribes) to insurgents and terrorist groups so they would attack “Al Qaeda” instead of us.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:36 pmBefore the Iraq War, Cheney had an idea to put UN colors on a spy plane and try to provoke Saddam’s army to shoot at it.
6-deferment Dick sure has a fetish for seeing Americans getting shot at.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:36 pmSheesh… *doesn’t
July 31st, 2008 at 1:36 pmSorry to go ot, but this needs to be posted:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
July 31st, 2008 at 1:37 pmLooks as if “strong in security” means to seek illegal wars with everybody.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:38 pmraynman Says:
As witch1 noted, reading stuff like this makes some of the nuttier theories about 9/11 almost understandable.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:33 pm
_____
I dunno. For me it just makes them seem even more implausible, by pointing out that the people running administration are many orders of magnitude more incompetent than I’d previously thought. It confirms for me that these idiots don’t have the brains to successfully pick their noses, much less plan a coordinated hijacking of four planes for suicide missions.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:38 pmreopen 9-11 investigations. bush DID NOT START LYING with iraq… it went on WAY before 9-11… just ask pnac. they sure do love using hitlers playbook.
false flag attacks.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:40 pmOMG, what is it with this guy? We are all ready mired in two wars, and this dumb idiot wants to start another? He really is Darth Vader.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:40 pmThe link I just posted was to the Lavena Johnson “suicide” story, not the Kucinich post.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:40 pmIs the idea that real Iranians would mistake Americans dressed as Iranians for ‘brothers’ and attack real Americans in defense of the perceived Iranians? I don’t think the Iranians are as stupid as these people think real Americans are. The fake Iranians would be as easy for real Iranians to spot as a real liberal can spot the ‘conservative’ trolls masquerading as liberals.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:40 pm6-deferment Dick sure has a fetish for seeing Americans getting shot at.
Well, he did shoot his American lawyer, didn’t he?
July 31st, 2008 at 1:42 pmThis Administration has tried every trick they could come up with to get Americans on board with their evil plan. First they tried the same tactic that worked for them with Iraq, repeated lies and fear…not falling for that again. Couldn’t cherry pick from intelligence findings…even the intel folk weren’t going to let that happen again. Distorting Iranian President’s statements (wiping Israel off the map)…sorry boys this one didn’t work either although they still pull out this canard. Gain international support…nope, no takers other than Israel (natch). Strait of Hormuz incident…sorry, non starter. Get the Generals to goose step for you…sorry there too boys, most are strongly opposed to the stress on our military. So they get together and try to come up with some other false scenario to dupe the world. Gee, Dick Cheney REALLY, REALLY wants this doesn’t he? Tyranical self-serving death-can’t-come-fast-enough to him scumbag.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:44 pmThat claim should probably be verified. If it is true, it is the same thing the Nazis did when invading Poland. If it is not true, Hersh has some explaining to do…
July 31st, 2008 at 1:44 pmBob Says:
Is the idea that real Iranians would mistake Americans dressed as Iranians for ‘brothers’ and attack real Americans in defense of the perceived Iranians? I don’t think the Iranians are as stupid as these people think real Americans are. The fake Iranians would be as easy for real Iranians to spot as a real liberal can spot the ‘conservative’ trolls masquerading as liberals.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:40 pm Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
More like the other way around. A dead body of an “iranian” killed while attacking US Forces would be a igniter for USA people. Yes, most iranians know that Ahmedinejad is bluffing, but how many Americans are dead sure that iranians want to bomb Iowa? A great share.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:44 pmToo even consider a pretense to war by having Americans killing Americans?????
Un-fcking-believable!!!
What’s the problem? Tell their families they were killed in action, give ‘em medals (pensions for the widows) and cremate the bodies.
that’s what they did with Pat Tillman, innit?
July 31st, 2008 at 1:44 pmTo Provoke War, Cheney Considered Proposal To Dress Up Navy Seals As Iranians And Shoot At Them
Afterward Cheney Would Claim He Was Trying To Shoot A Pheasant
July 31st, 2008 at 1:45 pmI think the plan is for the pretend Iranians to “attack” a US warship and then have the warship “defend” itself by blowing up the navy seals. To what extent the seals or the warship would be in on the true intention of the “attack” questionable. I could see this administration telling the seals that they’re just going to be filmed “attacking” and that there will be live fire but they wouldn’t be targeted, and then the administration would not tell the warship, who would blow up the unsuspecting seals thinking they were really under attack. This would eliminate witnesses to bush/cheney’s treason, and would make the testimony of the captain and crew more believable: they wouldn’t have to act because they would have believed they were really under attack.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:46 pm@36, shoeless:
Very good!
July 31st, 2008 at 1:46 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
——————————————————————————–
raynman Says:
As witch1 noted, reading stuff like this makes some of the nuttier theories about 9/11 almost understandable.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:33 pm
_____
I dunno. For me it just makes them seem even more implausible, by pointing out that the people running administration are many orders of magnitude more incompetent than I’d previously thought. It confirms for me that these idiots don’t have the brains to successfully pick their noses, much less plan a coordinated hijacking of four planes for suicide missions.
Plus, if you believe Hersh’s account – and no one here has questioned it – the deal breaker was that you “can’t have Americans killing Americans.”
There! 9-11 conspiracy theory is debunked by this thread. Nice!
July 31st, 2008 at 1:47 pm# 37, Bobwurst Says:
starring Harrison Ford as the Carrier commander and bruce willis leading the seals…awesome, dood!
July 31st, 2008 at 1:48 pmWhy did this administration take all of its lessons from the evil things that previous administrations did?
They took the spying, retaliation and obstruction of justice from Nixon, and the lying about war from Johnson.
Too bad they didn’t take the oral sex lesson from Clinton. Then we coulda impeached the bastids.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:49 pmDoesn’t this sound familiar?
July 31st, 2008 at 1:49 pmOkay, Keltoi, that was pretty clever. I give you that.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:50 pmWE are the Ais of Evil.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:50 pmI’m inclined to believe if Sy Hersch sez it’s true, there’s better than 90% odds it’s true…
July 31st, 2008 at 1:50 pmAis = Axis
July 31st, 2008 at 1:51 pmKeltoi, you may be right about one 9-11 theory, that bush planned the attack, that the World Trade Centers were blown up, etc, but it does nothing to debunk the more logical conspiracy theory: that bush did nothing to stop Al Queda from attacking, that he sat, stunned and stupid, in a Kindergarten classroom while we were under attack, that he ignored the Aug 8 PDB, that they didn’t take terrorism seriously until after we were attacked, and then used that attack for their own political gain, etc.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:52 pmWhen it was pointed out that you can’t have Americans killing Americans, Cheney replied, “So?”
July 31st, 2008 at 1:52 pmbarfly Says:
The link I just posted was to the Lavena Johnson “suicide” story, not the Kucinich post.
I read that story and it made me want to vomit. The military told this woman’s parents that she committed suicide. Right, she beat herself up, raped herself and then doused herself with gasoline and set herself on fire. That is NOT how a young woman raised in the US would commit suicide, even while ignoring the fact that she was severely beaten and raped.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:53 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
There! 9-11 conspiracy theory is debunked by this thread. Nice!
Tillman was shot with a m-16 in a tight pattern of 3 to the forehead, and theey first claimed it was enemy soldiers with a 50 cal.
Americans killing an american and a President covering up the investigation under “executive privilege”
There, Keltoi at night debunked.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:53 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
——————————————————————————–
Why did this administration take all of its lessons from the evil things that previous administrations did?
They took the spying, retaliation and obstruction of justice from Nixon, and the lying about war from Johnson.
Too bad they didn’t take the oral sex lesson from Clinton. Then we coulda impeached the bastids.
Hey – don’t forget James K. Polk and his false claim that Mexico started the Mexican-American War. Course, that was back when Imperialism was the done thing, and the US got the either Southwest out of it. All an attack on Iran would get us is $300 oil…
July 31st, 2008 at 1:53 pmeither=entire..more coffee
July 31st, 2008 at 1:54 pmThanks for pointing out the problem with the links in the post. I corrected it.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:54 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Plus, if you believe Hersh’s account – and no one here has questioned it – the deal breaker was that you “can’t have Americans killing Americans.”
Why would you question it? It has been documented that Bush proposed painting a spy plane in UN colors and provoking Saddam Hussein into shooting it down in order to justify invading Iraq.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:55 pmWE are the Ais of Evil.
You might have meant Asses of Evil,
July 31st, 2008 at 1:57 pmwhy should ANY of this surprise ANYONE here or who’s been paying attention to anything that’s happened in the last 100 years in this country… from the banana wars in Guatemala to the bullshit way the US took over the Hawaiian Islands to the Tonkin Gulf phantom incident to Operation Northwoods…
in the words of that famous Rage tune: Wake UP!
July 31st, 2008 at 1:58 pmSpeaking of conspiracy theories… and facts. What about the Downing Street Memo? See? Conspiracy theories CAN be true.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:58 pmWhere are the regular defenders of this crew? Is it just me or are there actually some topics that they don’t swarm to to defend?
July 31st, 2008 at 1:59 pmokin librul Says:
# 37, Bobwurst Says:
starring Harrison Ford as the Carrier commander and bruce willis leading the seals…awesome, dood!
Except that willis would have to survive, and swim home to America bent on revenge. He’d swim up the Potomac, climb the fence to the whitehouse and sneak into President Biff Stoneman’s (D) bedroom (Fred Thompson) Who would spill the beans just before a bullet fired through the window by the Russian Mafia (sent by the Evil VP, played by Brian Denehy))hits him in the head. Willis would then barely escape, after a bloody and explosive chase through the streets of Washington.
After escaping by swimming through the sewers to Annapolis, he sneaks his way onto Harrison Ford’s ship and they decide to save America from the evil Democrat party. I don’t want to ruin the ending, but it involves Denehey being impaled on one of the spikes on the headdress of the statue of liberty.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:00 pmohcomeon Says:
WE are the Ais of Evil.
You might have meant Asses of Evil,
July 31st, 2008 at 1:57 pm Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
No, no, the AIs of Evil. As in Terminator movies.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:00 pmThe trolls are too busy defending McCain – our future war mongering leader. They don’t have time to deal with defending our current war mongering leaders.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:01 pmkeltoi- Instead of dancing around the finer points of the discussion, what do you think of an Administration that after having begun an unprecidented pre-emptive war in Iraq that turned out completely unjustified to then try to trump up another conflict with a country that poses no military threat to our homeland?
July 31st, 2008 at 2:02 pmI don’t know where Hersh gets this stuff, why he still had or had this supposed access and so on. In pure terms this sort of thing just doesn’t pass muster–it’s all un-corroborated.
BUT
any serious amateur student of ‘geopolitical-military history’ knows that ‘false flag’ operations have been employed at various times by various entities for some 5,000 years.
Recent experience offers up at least the Gulf of Tonkin incident which was entirely manufactured to push the US into outrgith war in Vietnam.
Given the public record of Cheney and the impetus to invade and occupy Iraq, the benefit of the doubt has to go to Hersh, not Cheney, in this regard.
P.S. When a bunch of Brits were captured by Iranians about 18 months ago (?) the ‘Fighting 101 Keyboarders’ were OUTRAGED that a shootout didn’t result and a casus belli against Iran wasn’t thus established.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:03 pmIf you have to provoke a war, does that necessarily mean there is no justification for the war in the first place? It would seem so.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:05 pmAnd yet, there will be those that will think that people in our own govt would NEVER, EVER do something like this. Reminds me of an article I read some years ago where a Pentagon Chief of Staff back in the early 60s wanted to hijack American airlines and blame it on the Cubans as a pretext to start a war with Castro. The info came from once-classified documents that were no longer relevant and got by the FOIA.
Cheney was alive and kicking back then, I wonder if he was this guy’s protege.
and still there are those who will not even consider the idea that 9-11 may have been an inside job
July 31st, 2008 at 2:06 pmmay seem implausible, but after reading this, I am not so sure anymore.
sounds alot like Hitler’s operation to justify invading Poland. Cheney=Hitler. Yeah, sounds about right.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:08 pmI don’t want to ruin the ending, but it involves Denehey being impaled on one of the spikes on the headdress of the statue of liberty.
Brilliant, dood. I’ll start a treatment today…there’s lots of them flim-flam film critters around here…it’d sell like hotcakes
July 31st, 2008 at 2:09 pmKeltoi at night. (Why the addition of “at night?)
I see what you’re getting at, and it was pretty humorous. But, you must remember, some of us here are not 9/11 conspiracy theorists. Me, I’m a 9/11 realist. I don’t believe our government purposely started that horrific day, rather they became complacent that allowed it to happen, whether it was on purpose or not.
The president and vice president should have sworn in their testimony, separately, and there should have been no omissions.
Bin Ladens family should NOT have been allowed to leave the country without some sort of investigation.
Unfortunately, I don’t believe its out of the realm of possibility that deferment Dick would pose such a scenario.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:10 pmAfter all, what’s a few dead American soldiers among corporate profitability? (snark)
@67, Bob Says:
July 31st, 2008 at 2:11 pmIf you have to provoke a war, does that necessarily mean there is no justification for the war in the first place? It would seem so.–July 31st, 2008 at 2:05 pm
cf. Gulf of Tonkin, e.g.
Bobwurst Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi, you may be right about one 9-11 theory, that bush planned the attack, that the World Trade Centers were blown up, etc, but it does nothing to debunk the more logical conspiracy theory: that bush did nothing to stop Al Queda from attacking, that he sat, stunned and stupid, in a Kindergarten classroom while we were under attack, that he ignored the Aug 8 PDB, that they didn’t take terrorism seriously until after we were attacked, and then used that attack for their own political gain, etc.
What you describe is a combination of blindness, incompetence and then ruthless opportunism to exploit the blindness and incompetence. This I can readily believe. That is hardly a conspiracy theory but more a chronicle of all democratic government through the ages with rare exceptions.
I have just always rejected the “Bush ordered demolitions planted in the towers” jazz because it was 1.) Sith like on a scale that seems cartoonish and 2.) more importantly, logistically impossible to carry off without it leaking.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:14 pm“There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war.”
The issue isn’t just about what was suggested and/or rejected. It’s the idea that they were (I suspect, ARE) trying to trigger a war.
Tell me again why these people aren’t in prison?
July 31st, 2008 at 2:14 pmCheney: “I know how to start wars”
July 31st, 2008 at 2:14 pmMcWar: ” I know how to win wars”
Bush:”I know how to have ‘Missions Accomplished’ “
glad to see the eye has been rested.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:15 pmA Patriot Acting Says:
——————————————————————————–
keltoi- Instead of dancing around the finer points of the discussion, what do you think of an Administration that after having begun an unprecidented pre-emptive war in Iraq that turned out completely unjustified to then try to trump up another conflict with a country that poses no military threat to our homeland?
It is bad. I really don’t want to pay $10 for gas. And Olmert resigning yesterday is disquieting…it opens the door for Bibi to lead Likud back to power on a get-tough with Iran platform; hard to say if that would work.
This whole thing hangs by a thread, there is definite cause for worry, but there are so many moving parts in the political calculus it is impossible to predict what will happen.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:18 pmBob totally stole my thunder…well, it was more like a a petomaineesque relapse.
So 3 recommends from me
July 31st, 2008 at 2:20 pmDRxJ Says:
Keltoi at night. (Why the addition of “at night?)
It is my home addy, but I am on summer break so I post to it not always at night til September.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:21 pmHow about Congress gets Cheney under oath and asks him directly about this meeting?
Yes, I know, … dreaming on.
But, seriously, when did it become ‘OK’ for the Vice President of the United States to sit around brain-storming ways to provoke a war??? If Gore had done it in 1999 or Mondale had done it in 1979, would it have been a non-event too? Why do I have to feel like a radical for thinking that this is so beyond the pale as to warrant major consequences?
Doesn’t the Constitution give the power to declare war to Congress EXCLUSIVELY? Is there some caveat that I’m missing that says, “but the Vice President can PROVOKE a war on his own authority (as the President of the Senate)”?
July 31st, 2008 at 2:23 pmDr. Hussein Matt Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi at Night Says:
more importantly, logistically impossible to carry off without it leaking.
One reich-winger with a rented Ryder truck took out the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.
Right – and he was arrested and executed. His cell involved 2 or 3 other people and had no contact with the government. McVeigh and AQ have much in common, and one thing they have in common is the federal government is not pulling their strings.
Or are you saying Clinton was responsible for Oklahoma City? I am pretty sure that would be Troll copyright infringement.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:24 pmThis administration must study Nazi Germany—this is the same as the Gleiwitz Incident that Hitler used in 1939 to provoke war with Poland.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:24 pmA lot has happened since the last time a cruised by this thread and was subjected to the sound of a few swooshes of the light saber. What is up with that?
July 31st, 2008 at 2:24 pmEvil Spaniard Says:
No, no, the AIs of Evil. As in Terminator movies.
Artificial Intelligence? Kinda doubt it.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:24 pmSilly me. I always figured it was ’cause you were blogging from the set of your nighttime talk show.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:28 pmKeltoi Says:
I have just always rejected the “Bush ordered demolitions planted in the towers” jazz because it was 1.) Sith like on a scale that seems cartoonish and 2.) more importantly, logistically impossible to carry off without it leaking.
I’ll put my tinfoil hat on for just one minute – maybe two minutes. I don’t think W would be smart enough, ballsy enough, or organized enough to order any attack on our country (9/11). I just don’t believe a man who has failed at everything could muster the brains to pull this off. That said, I do believe that a small contingent of Cheney’s crowd could pull it off. Cheney has always been the super papa of the WH and Bush probably defers to him at all times.
I can imagine where Bush was sidestepped so that Cheney, Addington, Feith, Pearl, etc could do what they needed to do to bring about the ‘new world order’ of the neocons.
This I could believe.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:33 pmOnly Cheney’s dark, clouded circle could even conceive of such a traitorous scenario. No surprises here.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:45 pmThe light saber shit is really starting to piss me off
July 31st, 2008 at 2:45 pmThree questions: Who called the meeting and what was the announced purpose?
July 31st, 2008 at 2:52 pmWhose idea was the boat switcharoo and use of SEALS? Was it Cheney, Bush, Rice, Poderhertz, Rumsfeld or his successor, or others?
dbadass #93,Did I read wrong.? is it light saber shit or reich saber shit? …LOL. Oh well, time for more coffee and a walk with the Bear…..Blessings
July 31st, 2008 at 2:55 pm@ 91, Stratrat sez: this I could believe.
July 31st, 2008 at 2:33 pm
That you should believe.
Cheney and his bous were all PNAC signatories.
We still delude ourselves if we think Bush chose Cheney as VP. Cheney and his boys chose Bush to be their sock-puppet, and then Cheney chose Cheney as VP.
Cheney would NEVER have trusted the Chimp with any important information. The poor Chimperor truly WAS stunned that morning in that Florida classroom…eight minutes stunned…he knew NOTHING…
But Cheney knew. I warrant Cheney knew everything except the number of flights, flight numbers, of course, and the exact date.
The saddest thing to me about the whole thing is that the whole thing, and its ensuing aftermath could have been prevented if USer airlines had not obstructed putting security doors on the flight decks of their aircraft. But they lobbied fiercely against it for 25 years. For that reason, alone, I think the Airlines are collectively culpable for the damages of 9/11…
July 31st, 2008 at 3:00 pmI’m trying to decide whether this scenario reminds me more of “Dr. Strangelove” or “Canadian Bacon”. Unfortunately, both of those movies are comedies, and the United States’ attempts to bait Iran into any kind of attack that would justify us going in and bombing the crap out of them is all too serious.
July 31st, 2008 at 3:05 pmGuido the Loving OBGYN Says:
——————————————————————————–
It’s stories like these that make people believe that America would mail anthrax to their own.
Now, you know al Qaeda mailed that anthrax to Tom Daschle and Pat Leahy. They were the debating the Patriot Act and Osama bin Laden wanted to kill them so they couldn’t block it. Even though bin Laden failed in his murder attempt, he scared Daschle and Leahy enough so that they didn’t go against his wishes to pass the Patriot Act.
July 31st, 2008 at 3:07 pm#91, StratRat,
I BELIEVE! I BELIEVE!
He is so ingrained in backdoor D.C. bullshit that he knew enough of the ‘right’ people who believed in the PNAC doctrine to actually pull it off…wasn’t he, according to Norm Mineta, at the NORAD console, calling the ’shots’?
July 31st, 2008 at 3:14 pmWould the dead Iranian-costumed Americans have gone to paradise with 99 virgins if they were martyred for Cheney?
July 31st, 2008 at 3:16 pmEver heard of “OPERATION NORTHWOODS”..?
it was detailed set of proposals the Joint Chiefs came up with in 1962 to instigate an armed conflict with Cuba, in a way that the American public could be fooled into supporting.
The Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals – part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose – included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake “Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,” including “sinking a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated),” faking a Cuban airforce attack and shooting down a civilian jetliner, and concocting a “Remember the Maine” incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage.
July 31st, 2008 at 3:20 pmThis may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government, but I believe we saw a version of it in the Tonkin Gulf incident that allowed Johnson to escalate the conflict in Vietnam. I have been mentioning the possibility of something like this since Bush began his saber rattling over Iran, and seriously believe that the Hormuz Strait incident a few months ago was the first wave of just such a plan.
tokin:
“But Cheney knew. I warrant Cheney knew everything except the number of flights, flight numbers, of course, and the exact date.”
The exact date? Wasn’t it Cheney who initiated a stand down order on 9/11 so the military could perform a terrorist attack drill? Wasn’t Dick Cheney sitting at the NORAD control panel on 9/11 before being whisked off to his un-disclosed bunker?
July 31st, 2008 at 3:21 pmDamn it, how do I turn off the light saber? Really it is making me nuts
July 31st, 2008 at 3:24 pmSick. That Cheney is one sick, twisted and evil old bastard.
July 31st, 2008 at 3:24 pmTrue or not, Hersh’s statement should make everybody step back and think about whether Americans could be capable of such actions. The answer of course is yes. One of the biggest problems I think we have in this country is that most people just assume that politicians have America’s best interests at heart. It’s beyond their comprehension that someone might want to profit from war, use war as justification to consolidate power, violate human rights, etc. That is what leaders of other countries do – not patriotic American leaders. That’s why we end up with people like Bush and Cheney in office. Then of course when the people are confronted with those very actions by their leaders, they rationalize it to make it acceptable to them (e.g. protecting our national security). I think if most Americans were presented a description of Bush/Cheney’s administration as if it happened 100 years ago or in another country, they would condemn their behavior. But when they are actually living through it, it is easier to minimize it because recognizing the seriousness of Bush/Cheney’s actions diminishes our views of ourselves, our country, and our leaders. No one wants to look in the mirror and discover they aren’t the superstar they thought they were.
July 31st, 2008 at 3:26 pmtbone Says:
——————————————————————————–
True or not, Hersh’s statement should make everybody step back and think about whether Americans could be capable of such actions. The answer of course is yes. One of the biggest problems I think we have in this country is that most people just assume that politicians have America’s best interests at heart. It’s beyond their comprehension that someone might want to profit from war, use war as justification to consolidate power, violate human rights, etc. That is what leaders of other countries do – not patriotic American leaders.
Anyone who has studied history could tell you almost every war we have fought has been the result of either goading the enemy into attacking us or just making up an attack. Depending on how far you want to go, the Revolution, the Civil War and WWII were all the result of American leaders manipulating events to advance the use of violence to achieve a political end.
But very few Americans can conceive of this. They DON’T read history. As I have said before, when in doubt read Sandberg’s “I am the People, the Mob” and it will all make sense.
July 31st, 2008 at 3:39 pminteresting, a conspiracy to commit treason, among several other major felonies. just another day at the office, no?
July 31st, 2008 at 3:55 pmThis is nothing new. Read all about Operation Northwoods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwoods
Sure it sounds like some wacko tinfoil hat conspiracy, but the document is signed off by the members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and has been confirmed as real by the Pentagon.
July 31st, 2008 at 4:00 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
But very few Americans can conceive of this. They DON’T read history. As I have said before, when in doubt read Sandberg’s “I am the People, the Mob” and it will all make sense.
Great post! I love this poem and believe just as you do that the VAST majority of Americans ((including many on this board)) aren’t familiar with our history beyond the glossy drivel handed out in high school. I am a self-confessed, bona fide history nerd, and a firm believer of one of the most apt quotes ever:
July 31st, 2008 at 4:03 pm“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
~ George Santayana
Thank you Dvis Advocate. I was just going to post Operation Northwoods. Yes, this country is capable of doing these things.
What did Reverend Wright say? Was he not telling the truth?? Your goddamned Wright he was.
Goddamn America
July 31st, 2008 at 4:12 pmone of the most apt quotes ever:
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
~ George Santayana
Don’t remember who said it, but i like this every bit as much as the Santayana bon mot: “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it usually rhymes…”
July 31st, 2008 at 4:13 pmAnd kudos to Sy Hersh. I take my hat off to this man. I am surprised he is still alive but I am glad he is. Now this is a hero in my opinion, not that louse POW McCain who is no goddamned hero but merely a POW who sang like a bird and now the Gopers want him to be their heo. Screw all these criminals.
July 31st, 2008 at 4:14 pmStaying in character as Darth Vader then? Okiedokie, dude…you need to take your meds now…or get off them, depending.
“Conspiracy” — PAH! How I’ve hated how they’ve turned this word to mean whoever talks about it is crazy.
It’s -not- a conspiracy, this was very nearly a crime and Hersh would’ve been one of the few witnesses to it. False flag operations are a crime against this country — that they’d even consider it means the 9/11 truth people might not be so far off really. By design or default, it doesn’t really matter…in the end of it all.
There’s only one word I can think to describe this. It’s not even a word I use alot.
And the word is; Evil.
July 31st, 2008 at 4:14 pmHow about we dress Cheney up as Osama bin Laden and let our military take pot shots at him?
July 31st, 2008 at 4:25 pmI wonder who, in a meeting like that, would leak info to Sy Hersh… and how they could get away with it.
That said, this would certainly not be the first time that elements in our government have plotted false flag events. Remember Operation Northwoods?
July 31st, 2008 at 4:58 pmOperations Northwoods Link: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf
July 31st, 2008 at 4:59 pmGeez, Cheney. Why don’t you just have Vizzini kidnap the princess already?
July 31st, 2008 at 5:07 pmCrap like that has worked since Agamemnon, “Paris of Troy stole Helen and we must destroy Troy!! (Please don’t notice how getting rid of my major trading competitor benefits me)”
July 31st, 2008 at 5:10 pmtokin librul Says:
——————————————————————————–
one of the most apt quotes ever:
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
~ George Santayana
Don’t remember who said it, but i like this every bit as much as the Santayana bon mot: “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it usually rhymes…”
Without googling I’d say Will Rogers, followed by Mark Twain.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:42 pmGoogled. Mark Twain.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:44 pmIt’s the theory of the Big Lie, but done in micro…
you pick a plausible falsehood and just keep repeating it.
as long as it’s out “there” it’s doing it’s job.
you use this along with the BIG LIE, the tale so outrageous that nobody could believe you’d lie about such a thing.
works every time
July 31st, 2008 at 5:45 pmI’m sure the Navy Seals were just lining up for this mission.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:48 pmStop! Really stop and think about this!
This is our V.P. seriously thinking of provoking ANOTHER war! How can any self respecting person not just freak over this?
Cheney is not leadership material, but he is prison material and this accentuates that he is truly the embodiment of evil. For those who want comparisons to Hitler, consider this.
July 31st, 2008 at 6:08 pmAbsolutely criminal. Cheney is one EVIL S.O.B.
July 31st, 2008 at 6:18 pm“Sometimes I change events, dates, and places in a certain way to protect people… I can’t fudge what I write. But I can certainly fudge what I say.” Seymour Hersh 2005
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/11719/
July 31st, 2008 at 6:59 pmFor those who need a small history refresher: this action contemplated by Vice President Cheney is essentially the same as the one Adolf Hitler used to create a pretense for attacking Poland. There were German soldiers in Polish uniforms who staged an attack on a German radio station near the border, which led to the invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939, which started World War II in Europe. This points out the level to which the US government has sunk, to even contemplate doing what US Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson prosecuted as war crimes at Nuremburg, is shocking.
The early politicians in this country would be appalled to see what this country has become. They did not fight the War for Independence to become this. The Bush administration and its abetters in Congress are a shocking disgrace to this country. All of them need to be: removed from power and sent to prison for their crimes. George Washington did not permit abuse of prisoners, nor any of the other things these mediocrities in the contemporary US have done. Equally shocking is that there is any level of support for any of these politicians at this point.
At this point, it is fair to ask, can anyone honestly say that the United States is still a functioning republic? Or has it completely morphed into something more like old Rome as it became an empire?
July 31st, 2008 at 8:15 pmStill don’t think 9/11 was a false-flag operation?
July 31st, 2008 at 8:24 pmGosh, it just doesn’t make sense — our oilmen in the White House want war with an oil-rich country. Why?
July 31st, 2008 at 8:49 pmIf this is true, then I’m curious, perhaps someone from the FBI or the Justice Department can advise us all as to why these people have not been charged with conducting a criminal conspiracy, especially a “Conspiracy to Commit a Crime of War”, and possibly “Conspiracy to Commit Treason Against the United States”?
If picking up Osama Bin Laden’s dry cleaning will get you 20 years, then I imagine sitting around, cooking up a scheme to incite another country to attack Americans ought to get you sent to Federal Prison faster than you can say “American Taliban”.
Well?
July 31st, 2008 at 10:20 pmWhat did of the agency’s involved in spying on America do with this information? Is Cheney on the terrorists list, and if not, why not? He is a threat to the security of America. This is plotting to cause a false war; this is treason.
August 1st, 2008 at 12:18 amJoseph P. wrote:
And Stalin the same year to provoke a war with Finland. Cheney and the Bush administration are in very good company…
August 1st, 2008 at 2:55 amDress up soldiers as enemy combatants and fake an attack. Hey it worked for Hitler with Poland in 1939 and look at how well that worked for Germany.
August 1st, 2008 at 4:24 amHow about this scenario, Cheney would “love” it:
Take a Counter-Insurgency(COIN) unit from Special Operations Command(with as many Green Card Applicants as possible). Inform them they will be conducting a “training exercise” involving a “simulated” attack by “hostile forces” at a US Military Communications Base on the Iranian border. The COIN unit would be issued “realistic” “enemy” uniforms with IRGC(Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps) patches and insignia. They would also be issued “realistic” IRGC ID cards and personal documents with “simulated” information such as false Iranian names in Farsi and Iranian residence information(preferably in both English and Farsi), this would be explained as “enhancing realism” for the “simulation”. The unit would be advised to grow out their facial hair and spend time in the sun to develop a tan to “appear” Middle Eastern. They would also be advised to use radio silence and use no English language words during the time of the “exercise”.
This “training exercise” would be code named Operation Achilles Heel. It would be documented as a simulation to test potential threats to a forward deployed US base in a time of war, the objective of the “enemy” would be to seize the base for propaganda purposes.
At the same time, the base would be reinforced with a Company of US Army Rangers and ordered to enhance security at the base. They would be told that DIA and CIA intelligence assets had warned that a “rogue” IRGC unit would try to attack this base in order to destabilize the US Military in Iraq.
All the casualties suffered by the COIN unit as a result would be written off as lost during a “training exercise”.
And the US Media would report that IRGC members were killed attacking/sabotaging a US Military base in Iraq. Such a scenario has already been played out but not to an extreme to require a confrontation.
August 1st, 2008 at 6:12 amI can’t believe the number of people who still don’t realise that 9/11 was without a shadow of a doubt planned and executed by elements within the US government. The FBI itself has put its foot in the mouth of the official story; not only have they admitted there is no hard evidence to connect OBL to the events of that day, but at the trial of Moussaoui they also proved that Ted Olsen’s story (and therefore the only evidence that Fl.77 was still aloft) was false.
Everyone KNOWS that Bush and Cheney lied about Iraq (apart from those wilfully blind sheep who flat out refuse to accept reality). Subsequently, a lot of people decided that it would be unwise to trust them again. But why is it that those same people refuse to apply that same attitude retrospectively? “They lied about Iraq, sure, but there’s no way they would have went that far! And besides, they’re just too incompetent!” Come on, think about it! Incompetence (or seeming incompetence) has been the politicians’s best defence since time immemorial, and the fact that these people are sitting plotting how to kick off yet another conflict is surely all the proof needed that they care nothing about the lives of Americans. With that thought in mind, why do you people have so much trouble overcoming your fear about the events and implications of 9/11? These people are, in a nutshell, psychopaths and sociopaths; their political philosophy (such as it is!) is based around one idea: the end justifies the means. They’re showing you that yet again – and STILL you refuse to believe just how criminal they REALLY are!
Oh sorry, I forgot. Conspiracies don’t happen in the USA.
August 1st, 2008 at 6:57 amHistory potentially repeats itself…
Gleiwitz aka Canned Goods
Is there any wonder why people draw similarities between the tactics used by this administration and that of Adolf?
/godwinned
August 1st, 2008 at 7:22 amStarting wars is as American as Apple Pie.Check out Robert Stinnett’s book,”Day of Deceit”.He describes the 8 steps taken to provoke the Japanese into attacking first,simply so we wouldn’t be “seen” as the aggressors.Parking the ships at Pearl Harbor was one of the provocations. Stinnett,though he lays out the dirty deeds in exacting detail,AGREED with what Roosevelt did”becasue we had to stop Hitler”.
August 1st, 2008 at 8:34 amThen there’s the Gulf of Tonkin,an “attack”that rattled Congress into giving permission to start the war.
Remember the Maine?
Though it may not qualify exactly as a “false flag”,giving Saddam Hussein,a supposed ally,tacit permission to invade Kuwait so he could become “the New Hitler”,I include as well.
Oklahoma? I can’t say Clinton knew about it, but the ATF did-one agent was on 60 Minutes in silhouette and said that they were warned on their pagers not to go in that day.
There were local reports that told of more bombs in the buildings.There are also reports that there were two explosions,and that the type of bomb McVeigh is alleged to have used would not do the type of damage to the building.
And don’t get me started on 9/11…Most Americans have been hearing how we’re the “Good Guys”that they refuse to believe anything else,or they will explain away what we do as being done with “good intentions”-like some people defend Bush for invading Iraq.One day they’ll wake up…
Reminds me of 9/11 inside job discussions & Project Northwoods…recognize the common thread?
August 1st, 2008 at 8:43 amCorrection: Operation Northwoods. I scrolled up and noticed others recognized the connection too…
August 1st, 2008 at 8:48 amI’m aware of a cover-up in the 9/11 Commission Report based on my findings using official sites as proof. Cheney’s reported role on the morning of 9/11 is full of contradictions so I’m not surprised of what may have gone on at that meeting Hersh mentioned. So, where’s the proof for Hersh’s remarks? Who witnessed and reported to Hersh what was said in that meeting with Cheney. Cheney’s lost my trust, but where’s the proof?
August 1st, 2008 at 9:00 amPassenger57 Says:
“One day they’ll wake up…”
Ummm, ya THINK?!
August 1st, 2008 at 9:53 amharpert55 Says:
“Cheney’s lost my trust, but where’s the proof?”
You trusted a politician?! Especially a politician like Cheney? Um, why, exactly? Do you usually trust complete strangers who have a lifelong public record of dishonesty? Poor America…
Anyway, just hang about for the proof, it’ll be forthcoming in its own good time.
August 1st, 2008 at 10:13 amThe above link for Mineta’s testimony on YouTube got botched up. Here it is again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y
August 1st, 2008 at 11:11 amYou mention WMDs in the update.
I’ve always wondered, what with their high-school turn of mind, they never tried to fake them. It would seem to be easy to do.
August 1st, 2008 at 11:19 amwhy is anyone surprised? Remember Northwoods? The plan hatched by Gen. Lemay and elements in the CIA, to shoot down a plane full of Americans, preferably college students, blame it on the Cuban Communists, to arouse the populace against Cuba? Kennedy vetoed the idea.
August 1st, 2008 at 11:29 amThese are old tacticts. Very old. Most war, not all but most, has been insance and disgusting, promoted for the benefit of a very few.
I could be wrong Says:
“I’ve always wondered, what with their high-school turn of mind, they never tried to fake them. It would seem to be easy to do.”
It could be that it was impossible to suborn enough of the lower ranks to be able to do that without it being even more obvious than 9/11. Remember, with the invasion of Iraq we are talking about a conspiracy at the highest levels of government; to introduce WMD where there previously were none, you have to be able to control the troops on the ground. And whilst time has shown that US (and UK) troops in Iraq are far from being angels, it’s always going to be nigh on impossible to stop, for instance, a whole infantry platoon from talking. Of course, even if they DID the vast majority of Americans would instantly chant, in robotic unison, “conspiracy theory”, and turn back to American Idol…! ;-)
August 1st, 2008 at 11:36 amOK who in the right mind would dress up as an Irianian Soldier and shoot at an American warship. This sounds like a great Ideal how much is the pay boss? (death) or (death) ?
August 1st, 2008 at 11:44 amAfter a story like this reaches the public I think its obvious we should re-open the 9/11 investigation. Of course how could we get our leaders to tell the truth? I have the perfect solution. Since our current administration has a penchant for supporting torture, we should use the same techniques to get information from them. If we waterboard Dick Cheaney then i’m sure he’ll spill the truth eventually. Or maybe we should starve him and fore him to stay awake for weeks on end. I’m willing to bet that a few months in Gitmo will claer all this up right quick.
August 1st, 2008 at 11:47 amYou don’t get it.
War is a profit center for Cheney & co.
They aren’t “crazy”; they’re merely sociopathic.
August 1st, 2008 at 11:47 amThis is it. At last, I’m publicly calling for the death of the vice president.
August 1st, 2008 at 12:25 pmMost wars are started by these “false flag attacks”. I’ve been banned from many blogs for suggesting that 9/11 was an inside job. If the shoe fits . . .
August 1st, 2008 at 12:39 pm@ radiodujour: Dont let the Sheeple of this country keep the truth hidden. the 9/11 truth movement is alot bigger that just a few “conspiricy theorist”. A recent poll show somthing like 20% of Americans are suspicious of the offical story. one day the truth will emerge, when that happens, I predict the end of ALL these clowns. Some people just can’t accept that out leaders are lying to our faces everyday.
August 1st, 2008 at 12:48 pmMost wars are started this way . . .
False flag operations are covert operations conducted by governments, corporations, or other organizations, which are designed to appear as though they are being carried out by other entities. The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colors; that is, flying the flag of a country other than one’s own. False flag operations are not limited to war and counter-insurgency operations, and have been used in peace-time; for example, during Italy’s strategy of tension.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag
For hard hitting truth radio, please visit:
August 1st, 2008 at 1:09 pmRadidujour.com
Richard Clarke, a very believable source, feels this administration is too incompetent to pull off 9/11. I agree.
But did they know it was going to happen ?
Were friendly countries involved to make it happen ?
How come so many involved in the security of the buildings and the insurance end all knew one another and eventually profited ?
Stocks that were bet went high but no one collected ?
Why did it take so long to bring our fighter jets in ?
All questions that deserve an answer under oath. Will it ever happen, nope. Too many dirty hands, got rich.
August 1st, 2008 at 1:10 pmIt wasn’t the administration . . . it was the Pentagon . . . could you say that the Pentagon couldn’t pull this off?
Research the nature of these types of attacks and you will find that throughout history they are nearly all self inflicted wounds used to create a provocation for a military action against another group that poses no real threat to the aggressor.
Google . . . “USS Liberty Chicago Tribune”.
Google . . . “Operation Gladio”
Google . . . “Operation Mockingbird” (mainstream media controlled by pentagon)
Don’t take anyone’s word for it, do your own research.
But do it quickly, the tail is wagging the dog to death
August 1st, 2008 at 1:21 pmechoes of “of course the orders still stand” coming from Cheney …. when will we connect the dots?
-v
August 1st, 2008 at 2:21 pmI agree with Radiodujour and deadfinger. If you’re still not convinced, google “Operation Northwoods”
And if you still believe the 9/11 commission take two minutes to watch this and see what you think afterwards:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3898962504721899003&hl=en
It easy to see folks, but much harder to accept. Once we do, real change can begin.
You are wrong about one thing there deadfinger. If we waterboarded Cheney wouldn’t last 10 seconds. Cheney has had four heart attacks, quadruple bypass surgery, two artery-clearing angioplasties and an operation to implant a defibrillator six years ago (and swapped out in june of last year) all on our dime.
August 1st, 2008 at 2:22 pmFrom this side of the Pond, may I suggest that those scandalised by this report of a ‘False Flag’ pretxt for war, read ‘Day of Deceit’ by Robert Stinnett (Pearl Harbor); search web for ‘Operation Northwoods’ (Cuba); search ‘Gulf of Tonkin Incident’ (Vietnam); search ‘Remember The Maine’ (Spain/Cuba); search ‘USS Liberty’ (US/Israel; ‘Six-Day War’), and also on this search ‘video + ‘Dead in the Water’, ‘video + ‘Loss of Liberty’, and for real Truthseekers, read Peter Hounam’s book ‘Operation Cyanide’; search ‘Reichstag Fire’ (Hitler), and then re’look at 9/11.
August 1st, 2008 at 5:47 pmLondon UK
This is very sad… Sey has managed to uncover another telling story about U.S. Foreign Policy being done in our name… This incident is the first to be brought to light, in order to start a conflict with another country…
1) WWII
2) Gulf of Tonken- Vietnam
3) Panama Deception
4) Grenada
5) 9/11- Iraq through Afghanistan
6) Almost Iran, we’re not out of the woods yet with this issue. Also, the U.S. may leave it to the Israeli’s…
7) War with Russia, when the Russians starting basing their nuke bombers in Cuba?
Thanks,
-DJ… Los Angeles…
August 1st, 2008 at 6:05 pmPerhaps the mother of all false flag ops: Operation Red Rock. I talked to an officer at Task Force Alpha who confirmed the air cover part of this op, but to get the skinny, go to the YouTube clip 1 through 8 of PRESIDENTIAL SECRETS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_6dOsAZfZI
I think that answers the question of whether a President can order Americans to be expendable.
August 1st, 2008 at 6:53 pmI don’t know why we’d have to use Navy Seals. Why not just use the extended Bush and Cheney family members? We could dress them all up as Iranians and fire on them in their boats? They want war? Lets sacrifice them for war!
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:46 amThis is very sad… Sey has managed to uncover another telling story about U.S. Foreign Policy being done in our name…
What’s really sad is that Sy has managed NOT TO PRINT THE STORY! Has no one thought about how irresponsible that is?! In my opinion, Sy Hersh is complicit in this in matter until he publicly explains his decision to WITHHOLD this information from the American people.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:24 amHey Dead Eye Dick: We needs to get the price of beer up to 6 bucks a gallon, see, so we hire this Dago I know, see, his name is Cassius Belli, see, St Valentine’s is a big beer drinking day for the Micks, see, Belli takes his crew down to Ahmad’s garage, see, they’re packing tommy guns, see,
Ahmad’s crew will be loading the beer trucks, see, they line em up against the wall, see, and mow em down, see.
Sy: Geez, Dead Eye, I thought your signature hit was a shot gun blast to the face?
Dead Eye: Right, OK, see, we hire these Arabs, see, sneaky bastards, see, they’re packing razors, see, you know, box cutters, see, they steal an airplane, see, hijack it, see
Sy: Geez, Dick, Haven’t you used that before? How about the shotgun blast?
Dead Eye: Ahmad’s garage is on the river, see, we hire five Israeli’s, see, give em shotguns, see, paint up some boats to look Persian, see, next thing ya know, we got beer at 6 bucks, and five dancing Israeli’s.
Sy: Sigh!
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:48 am#11–witch1
Too much neglect to be without design!
August 2nd, 2008 at 12:59 pmSo Cheney wanted to start still another unprovoked war under false pretenses. What does that say about the man?
Think about it. The second most powerful man in government is a crook of the most heinous kind. Why is he not in prison as a war criminal?
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:06 pmDallasNE,
If you’re referring to Karl Schwarz’ articles, if they are true, how will we ever know unless the news media gets involved without bias? The military under orders not to speak out may never convey Karl Scharz’ expose’. If Cheney was truly involved in 9/11 and protected in some way, then he’s being protected by what may be going on in the Caspian Sea area as well. That pre-9/11 August 10, 2000 article drives the point home to me that Cheney had a vested interest in the oil at the Caspian Sea area (before 9/11). From all I’ve read in Schwarz’ articles, he claims the Taliban was working on a deal with Argentina with that pipeline in the Caspian Sea area and UNOCOL wanted the deal instead. It’s too much to get into here and I’m not able to convey in here what Schwarz has presented in his articles. Dig into Schwarz’ articles to learn more about the unnamed soldier’s experiences related to so-called Black Ops missions in the Caspian Sea area in Schwarz’ article. What Schwarz had to present in this article is an eye opener:
The World’s Foremost Terrorist – The US Government
http://www.rense.com/general82/fore.htm
Schwarz’ article also brings up what he claims is what really led up to the Gulf War:
“A full eight weeks before Iraq invaded Kuwait in August 1990, this US soldier was part of a special forces black ops team that was ordered to attack both Iranian and Iraqi positions to stir up tensions in that part of the Middle East. That was weeks before Iraq invaded Kuwait to set the stage for ‘Desert Shield’ and then ‘Desert Storm 1991′ and another completely fabricated war by the Bush Family. This former Special Forces soldier had the dates, operation names, targets, etc. Through other sources I was able to verify it all.”
I vaguely recall reading about this story years ago:
“Before Iraq invaded Kuwait there had been a dispute going on in the background. Reportedly, US oil contractors operating in Kuwait had used ‘directional drilling’ and ‘aided and abetted’ a major theft of Iraqi oil. They were stealing oil from Iraq’s southernmost oil fields…which just happen to be very close to the Kuwait border. It took serious planning and premeditation to pull off such a burglary….which went on for years.”
This all leads me to ask, Where’s Schwarz’ proof?
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:34 pmgo youtube search ” David Icke Brixton”
August 4th, 2008 at 1:58 pmWatch and learn
Not the first time!
Lincoln Instigated The Firing On Ft. Sumter – Quotes
August 7th, 2008 at 10:47 pmhttp://www.namsouth.com/viewtopic.php?t=98&highlight=ft+sumter
It’s amazing what Dick Cheney will come up with. I think even his own party fears what he will say in his speech at the RNC.
August 13th, 2008 at 1:26 amsesli chat
January 10th, 2009 at 6:19 pmsesli chat
January 25th, 2009 at 3:32 amsesli sohbet
sesli chat
sesli chat
sesli sohbet
If you’re referring to Karl Schwarz’ articles, if they are true, how will we ever know unless the news media gets involved without bias? The military under orders not to speak out may never convey Karl Scharz’ expose’. If Cheney was truly involved in 9/11 and protected in some way, then he’s being protected by what may be going on in the Caspian Sea area as well. That pre-9/11 August 10, 2000 article drives the point home to me that Cheney had a vested interest in the oil at the Caspian Sea area (before 9/11). From all I’ve read in Schwarz’ articles, he claims the Taliban was working on a deal with Argentina with that pipeline in the Caspian Sea area and UNOCOL wanted the deal instead. It’s too much to get into here and I’m not able to convey in here what Schwarz has presented in his articles. Dig into Schwarz’ articles to learn more about the unnamed soldier’s experiences related to so-called Black Ops missions in the Caspian Sea area in Schwarz’ article. What Schwarz had to present in this article is an eye opener: kurtlar vadisi pusu izle kurtlar vadisi pusu Siki? Fx15 Sesli Sohbet
January 30th, 2009 at 5:09 amDans Kursu
January 31st, 2009 at 10:14 amvajinismus
filim izle
Lida
Thank you very much.
February 4th, 2009 at 9:32 amsesli chat
sesli sohbet
sesli chat
sesli sohbet
tatil
February 24th, 2009 at 10:08 amvajinismus-Lida dai dai hua jiao nang seo yar??mas?
Lida dai dai hua jiao nang seo yar??mas?
lida dai dai hua jiao nang seo yar??mas?
thanks for the article
March 7th, 2009 at 12:04 pmyo nunca habia visto a Eugenio Derbez haciendo el papel de malo pero esta pelicula esta muy bonita y si le cae ambos papeles pero lo disfruto mas cuando hace el papel de comedianoyunlar | Oyun | oyna | oyun sitesi
March 12th, 2009 at 7:01 ami agree..
March 12th, 2009 at 7:40 pmcam balkon
?ark? dinle
listen to songs
?ark? dinle
thank you..
March 12th, 2009 at 9:11 pmnice article..
emre aydin sarkilari
ferhat gocer
50 cent sarkilari
tarkan sarkilari
havlu kenari modelleri
motosiklet
iki tekerlekli,
bisiklet benzeri, içten yanmal? motora sahip bir
ya da iki ki?ilik ula??m arac?d?r.
?lk örnekleri motorsiklet bisikletlere
motor takma giri?imleriyle ortaya ç?km??t?r. 1869 y?l?nda ABD Massachusetts’li Sylvester Roper buhar gücüyle
çal??an motosiklet benzeri bir ta??t? geli?tirmeye çal??m??t?r. 1893 y?l?nda Felix
Millet be? silindirli bir motoru bir bisikletin ön tekerle?ine takarak bugünkü
motosiklete oldukça benzeyen bir ta??t gerçekle?tirmi?tir.
seo is the most important for website in the internet
March 21st, 2009 at 7:11 amthank you for post
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:29 pmgüzel nickler
güzel nickler
sesli sohbet
March 27th, 2009 at 7:57 pmsohbet
Dress up Navy Seals as Iranians, put them on fake Iranian speedboats, and shoot at them this is not best way to use its look all drama and no one trust on it, i would like to write some tips after my SY0-101 CompTIA’s Security+ Exam which I have been prepared fully to pass in first attempt as I have already pass my SY0-201Prepare for CompTIA’s new Security+ exam with this Deluxe Edition you can pass other related exams like VCP-310 VMware Certified Professional on VI3.5 exam training with full confidence and all you can prepare fromIT Training services providers with 100% grantee to pass in first attempt as well as your page concern i must return on it and will share some really useful techniques how to do it.
March 30th, 2009 at 2:52 am?ark? Dinle
March 31st, 2009 at 7:11 pmIt’s going to sound stupid, but I would really enjoy a good insider book about Dick Cheney. We didn’t learn much about him during Bush’s terms in office.
-billorders84
March 31st, 2009 at 9:36 pmPorno ?zle
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:01 amSesliChat1
ArsivLik.Net
thank you
April 28th, 2009 at 9:34 amSesliSohbet
April 30th, 2009 at 7:59 amThanks :) Sesli Sohbet
April 30th, 2009 at 8:00 amSesli Chat
SesliSohbet
SesliChat
Thanks very good
April 30th, 2009 at 8:03 pmsesli chat