Did McCain campaign lift Georgia speech from Wikipedia?
Did McCain campaign lift Georgia speech from Wikipedia?
Earlier today, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) delivered a speech on the war in Georgia. A Wikipedia editor notes that the speech is strikingly similar to the Wikipedia entry on the country Georgia. “[M]ost people would consider parts of McCain’s speech to be derived directly from Wikipedia,” Taegan Goddard writes:
After the Russian Revolution of 1917, Georgia had a brief period of independence as a Democratic Republic (1918-1921), which was terminated by the Red Army invasion of Georgia. Georgia became part of the Soviet Union in 1922 and regained its independence in 1991. Early post-Soviet years was marked by a civil unrest and economic crisis. (Wikipedia)
VERSUS
After a brief period of independence following the Russian revolution, the Red Army forced Georgia to join the Soviet Union in 1922. As the Soviet Union crumbled at the end of the Cold War, Georgia regained its independence in 1991, but its early years were marked by instability, corruption, and economic crises. (McCain)
Goddard has more examples of the similarities. (HT: Democracy Arsenal)
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Plagerism is well within the Rethuglic party credo.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:09 pmJohn McCrib.
Heh.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:09 pmWasnt there a claim that Obama stole someone’s speech?
I bet no media will pick up on this the way they tried to but down Obama for haveing the words “The” “Is” and “Are” in the same speech that someone else had.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:11 pmSomebody on his staff must have lifted it … McCain only watches DVD’s on a computer.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:13 pmThemis:
August 11th, 2008 at 3:15 pmAre you an excuse maker? Just wondering…
I thought that Conservapedia is the only resource that has been properly vetted by the Rethuglican party.
It must be the same kids that put the Obama bumper sticker on the “Side of your mouth talk express” last week.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:15 pmHi TripleKick9:
August 11th, 2008 at 3:16 pmGlad to see you were able to forestall double digits for a few days. Anyway, I was sort of wondering why you hang around posting at such a ‘trashy” site and through some many incarnations. Thanks in advance for offering your reflections on this strange conflict of interest.
Considering that McCain usually consults Daffy Duck for his answers, quoting Wikipedia is great progress.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:16 pm“filthy minions” – they must be brown and scary! Better vote for McCain to keep them out.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:17 pmWell, at least you have to give John McCain credit for not getting it wrong this time. That is a step in the right direction, even if the words are lifted without attribution.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:18 pmThis 2008 Presidential Campaign is a stub. You can help Senator McCain by trolling for it.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:18 pmHey, Trippie – do you have enough points for that John McCain frisbee yet?
August 11th, 2008 at 3:20 pmMcInsane disclaimer:
August 11th, 2008 at 3:22 pmThe proceding speech was written by Mr. Cliff Snotes.
Mcain also said that he would do everything in his power if elected president to push the russians out of Georgia, the peach and vidialla onion industry are vital to our national defense. To that end he promised to consult with his good friend General Sherman and, if elected will appoint Sherman to the joint chiefs of staff becuase of Sherman’s knowledge of the state.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:23 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
This 2008 Presidential Campaign is a stub. You can help Senator McCain by trolling for it.
#####
Yeah, I’ve noticed an increase in trolls since that site was launched. Regardless of the situation, they always support McCain. I would love for TP to report a completely fake “Onion-type” story, just so these guys could waste their time defending McCain on it.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:24 pmThemis Says:
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I’m holding out for an ObamaNation spatula. I need one to keep up with all the flip flops.
standard repubican tactic no 1: accuse your opponent of your greatest weakness.
By the way is your screen name a reference to the accuracy of your posts or to your closeted desires?
August 11th, 2008 at 3:25 pmThemis Says:
I’m holding out for an ObamaNation spatula. I need one to keep up with all the flip flops.
####
You honestly don’t see any McCain flip-flops do you? Head – meet sand.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:25 pmThis arrow should have been left in the quiver. With all the ammunition on Maverick McCain’s flip flops, this rubber dagger fails to pierce.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:26 pmOf COURSE McAncient didn’t lift his speech from Wikipedia. Of COURSE not.
His wannabe lobbyist/neocon/twenty-something speechwriter lifted it from Wikipedia. McStain just READ it.
No one could have predicted!
ha ha
August 11th, 2008 at 3:28 pmHere’s a site for ya.
“Women for John McCain: Real experience with real women.
“Lots of them.”
ha ha
August 11th, 2008 at 3:31 pmThemis Says:
Did TP lift this thread from the Daily Kos?
Wow, dude, you need to change your nickname–
–to Encyclopedia Brown.
ha ha
No. I’m not laughing WITH you!
August 11th, 2008 at 3:32 pmDr. Hussein Matt Says:
Time to ban some more trolls.
Why even bother? Personally, I enjoy the comic relief. Where else can you enjoy the laff riot of a good, ignorant troll with the most pathetic excuses for rebuttals?
August 11th, 2008 at 3:34 pm“Did McCain campaign lift Georgia speech from Wikipedia?”
Did Grandpappy McSame plagarized? Oh, the horror in that. Remember Rep. Deval Patrick’s speech borrowed by Obama in which the media made a big stink that Obama may have plagarized his speech? Just file this posting under: If only Obama would do this.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:36 pmTripleKick 9 Says
August 11th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Hey ToiletPaper, remember how you humiliated yourselves last time TP wrongly accused McCain of plagiarism? It was amusing to watch Faiz and his filthy minions have to eat crow and apologize for being rank amateurs, but apparently TP’s reputation is already so bad that it doesn’t even matter.
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Let’s take your drivel one point at a time.
1. Referring to ThinkProgress as “ToiletPaper” is not the height of hilarity. It’s juvenile and marks you as a 10 year old.
2. Yes, when TP got a story wrong, they apologized for it and printed a correction right away. This is what responsible journalists do. I have yet to see anybody in the right-wing blogosphere/media do this — they only do it when their back is against the wall (and even THEN they weasel).
3. I don’t think TP has to worry about pointing out the similarities between McCain’s speech and a Wikipedia entry and suggesting that McCain got his speech from Wikipedia — unless, of course, it turns out that McCain wrote the Wikipedia entry.
4. “Filthy minions”? Unless you have some evidence that the TP staff has some personal hygiene issues, I don’t see how the word “filthy” is justified.
5. One mistake of the kind TP made when they misreported McCain’s “plagiarism” does not make them “rank amateurs”. Bill Kristol has gotten his facts wrong far more often.
6. The reputation of ThinkProgress is just fine. They are still an award-winning blog site. The only thing that tarnishes it is troll poo full of unjustified accusations, such as your screed above.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:36 pmThe Miss says:
Did TP lift this thread from the Daily Kos?
Why now that you point it out, yes, yes they did. And what’s more. I’m plaigarizing right now, by your standards. I’m using words other people have used, and I’m TYPING them too, just like other people did. Thanks for openning my eyes…
August 11th, 2008 at 3:37 pmThemis,
TP referenced where they got this story from in the link. They cite references like that for two main reasons – so that you can follow up and read more if you wish, and to give credit to the original writer. Proper use of links and references helps to back up your story, and avoids plagiarism.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:37 pmNo, dude, McCain’s been learning how to get up onto the internets.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:39 pmThe problem here is not that the speechwriter may have copied wikipedia. Any speech citing facts needs to get those facts from somewhere, whether is is wikipedia, Britannica, or the CIA Factbook (which has similar wording). The problem is that if the writer used wikipedia, wikipedia should have been cited somehow. In fact, it probably would have been helpful if wikipedia had been cited directly in the speech, implicit proof that McCain uses the interwebs.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:39 pmthe miss doesn’t understand what plagiarism is. It thinks it’s just something that “bad” democrats do. John Mccopy could never do anything as bad as Plagiarism, he is a hero after all…Did I mention he was a POW? That’s a little known fact, after all John is so modest that he would never mention that fact. And he would never use that fact for political gain, he’s such a maverick…
August 11th, 2008 at 3:41 pmI’m actually kind of glad to see that someone in McCain’s camp was willing to look up some information. Sure, copy and paste is easier than just making crap up, yet I’m so use to republicans actually considering truth over truthiness.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:42 pmkmukhar:
August 11th, 2008 at 3:42 pmHighchools do not even allow wikipedia as a accepted source. The point of proper citation is reasonable but I would worry about a candidate who employs speechwriters who might think wiki is a “source”
Bobwurst Says:
“Mcain also said that he would do everything in his power if elected president to push the russians out of Georgia, the peach and vidialla onion industry are vital to our national defense…”
Wait a minute! Are you telling me we’re fighting Ruskis in Georgia so we don’t have to fight them over there?
August 11th, 2008 at 3:43 pmThat’s funny, Gigi (well, for you, anyway) except that John MCCain really does give away shit for trolling.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:44 pmstateofthedivision Says
August 11th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
This arrow should have been left in the quiver. With all the ammunition on Maverick McCain’s flip flops, this rubber dagger fails to pierce.
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Eh — in the grand scheme of things, this story isn’t the biggest one of the day. I agree that a flip-flop on tobacco trumps cribbing from Wikipedia.
This story is sort of on a par with Cindy’s stolen recipes — not earthshaking, but kind of entertaining to poke a little fun at.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:45 pm14. Themis Says:
I’m holding out for an ObamaNation spatula. I need one to keep up with all the flip flops.
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Try to keep up with the Double Talk Express:
* McCain supported the drilling moratorium; now he’s against it.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:45 pm* McCain strongly opposes a windfall-tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.
* McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.
* McCain defended “privatizing” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)
* McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t.
* McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.
* He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”
* McCain said he would “not impose a litmus test on any nominee.” He used to promise the opposite.
* McCain believes the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration’s warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.
* McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.
* McCain supported moving “towards normalization of relations” with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.
* McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.
* McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.
* He argued the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party’s policy making. Now he believes the opposite.
* McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn’t.
* He wanted political support from radical televangelists like John Hagee and Rod Parsley. Now he doesn’t.
* McCain supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation to combat global warming. Now he doesn’t.
* McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a “‘read my lips’ candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?” referring to George H.W. Bush’s 1988 pledge. “No new taxes,” McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, “I’m not making a ‘read my lips’ statement, in that I will not raise taxes.”
* McCain is both for and against a “rogue state rollback” as a focus of his foreign policy vision.
* McCain says he considered and did not consider joining John Kerry’s Democratic ticket in 2004.
* In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won’t commit to supporting a regulation bill he’s co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris’ former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.
* McCain has changed his economic worldview on multiple occasions.
* McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions.
* McCain is both for and against attacking Barack Obama over his former pastor at his former church.
* McCain believes Americans are both better and worse off than they were before Bush took office.
* McCain is both for and against earmarks for Arizona.
* McCain believes his endorsement from radical televangelist John Hagee was both a good and bad idea.
* McCain’s first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn’t be “rewarded” for acting “irresponsibly.” His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position.
* McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal.
* In February 2008, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding.
* McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.
* McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. Now he’s against it.
* On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own legislation.
* In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.
* McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”
* McCain said he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”
* McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.
* McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.
* McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.
* McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.
* On a related note, he said 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were “too tilted to the wealthy.” By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and insisted he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.
* In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.
* McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.
* McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.
* McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.
* McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.
* McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.
* McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.
LividLib says:
Wait a minute! Are you telling me we’re fighting Ruskis in Georgia so we don’t have to fight them over there?
Well, we haven’t started fighting here yet. Those damned sissy libs won’t let us. They want the military to use wind powered submarines, and biodegradable bullets made out of corn starch and such. If only john mccain were president, he’d show those commie libs a thing or two, by crackie!
August 11th, 2008 at 3:47 pm@35 “This story is sort of on a par with Cindy’s stolen recipes — not earthshaking, but kind of entertaining to poke a little fun at.”
I had already forgotten about the stolen cookie recipe. Thanks for the reminder! It is funny. Not as funny as Senator Craig’s recipe for a hot dog buttered and poked through a potato, but pretty funny.
Cindy: billionaires don’t cook, silly.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:48 pm——————————————————————————–
Themis Says:
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Chris L: People don’t put hyperlinks and footnotes in speeches, particularly to a free encyclopedia that anyone can use and edit.
People don’t steal direct quotes without saying where they got them from either. Well honest people don’t anyway…
August 11th, 2008 at 3:50 pmThemis:
Why would a candidate employ a speechwriter who might use info from a source like the one you describe?
“a free encyclopedia that anyone can use and edit.”
Sounds like that candidate may not have very good judgement…
August 11th, 2008 at 3:52 pmThemis:
Why would a candidate employ a speechwriter who might use info from a source like the one you describe?
“a free encyclopedia that anyone can use and edit.”
Sounds like that candidate may not have very good judgement…
August 11th, 2008 at 3:52 pmAnd since, as The_miss seems to recognize, hyperlinks and footnotes are the only ways to attribute elements of ones’ work to another, McCain is completely in the clear on this. What do you want? For McCain to say something stupid like “According to wikipedia”? (Snort!)
August 11th, 2008 at 3:52 pmBravo johnny! Thank you for the long list of Double Talk Express Talking Points. It’s enlightening to see John McCain’s shifts on the fly. That’s one ole soft shoe…
August 11th, 2008 at 3:53 pmTripleKick:
August 11th, 2008 at 3:56 pmI continue to wonder why you post so much at a place you dislike so. Might you kindly offer some insights to this odd behavior? Thanks again…
44. stateofthedivision Says:
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De nada.
McSame has ONE stand which he will not compromise: the old coot wantsa be Pretzeldent.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:56 pmHey, how’d he do that?
TK is back at level 8!
He’s tricky, that one.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:58 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Hey, how’d he do that?
TK is back at level 8!
He’s tricky, that one.
He’s regressing, which I would have guessed was impossible given where he started.
August 11th, 2008 at 4:01 pm42. dbadass Says:
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At least the old coot’s campaign found somebody with the Googles on the Internets Tubes.
August 11th, 2008 at 4:02 pm49. Themis Says:
… OMG did I just plagarize or derive something from Wikipedia without attribution….
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Feel free to plagiarize anything in post #36.
August 11th, 2008 at 4:05 pmjonny Says:
14. Themis Says:
I’m holding out for an ObamaNation spatula. I need one to keep up with all the flip flops.
_____
Try to keep up with the Double Talk Express:
*…*
August 11th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Geez, when you put it that way, I’m not so sure that this McCain person is the best guy running afterall.
It’s almost like he was “for it before he was against it” or words to that effect.
PS – I didn’t make that stuff in quotes up. I got it from Wikipedia. Thing about some dude named Kerry.
August 11th, 2008 at 4:05 pmDoes that mean he lost McCainPoints? He can’t get the McCain Mousepad yet?
August 11th, 2008 at 4:10 pmThank goodness for Wikipedia. If it weren’t for such easy-to-use resources, the Republicans would come off like completely clueless berks … and might say really stoopid things like “the Iraq-Pakistan border is troublesome…..”
They ought to rename the Republican Party as the Cliffs-Notes/Readers-Digest Party. Ohhhh … right … Reader’s Digest is a staunchly conservative company.
Cheers,
August 11th, 2008 at 4:12 pmFor any of the TP old schoolers here:
McCain is Fake Jake?????
August 11th, 2008 at 4:12 pmTripped and Kicked for the 8th time at 3:54 pm
August 11th, 2008 at 4:13 pmThe classic definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Get help NOW!
jonny, if you don’t mind, I’m saving you post for future references!
August 11th, 2008 at 4:14 pm58. DRxJ Says:
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Why not? That’s what I did.
August 11th, 2008 at 4:17 pmMany years ago, I was a Judge Advocate in the Air Force. Indeed, I was the Chief of Military Justice at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio. One of my tasks was to serve as the Recorder (Prosecutor) for discharge boards at AFIT (Air Force Institute of Technology) got to do a fair number of boards for plagarism. Guess what, the consistency of topics raise both within a sentence and paragraph constitutes a clear indication of plagarism. I would prosecute the case any day. However, it is not a crime. Just evidence of a lack of intellectual curiosity, ethics and originality.
Really, a trivial basis upon which to determine an outcome of an election. Oh, wait, this is the United States in which the Republicans have indeed used trivial issues as the true basis of determining elections.
August 11th, 2008 at 4:24 pm——————————————————————————–
Themis Says:
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The United States declared its independence from Great Britain in 1776.
OMG did I just plagarize or derive something from Wikipedia without attribution.
Hang me next time I do that. /snark
Don’t worry missy, here are a couple of rules that will help you to never plagarize again:
It’s never plagarism if you are
1-If you are stating common knowledge within your audience or discourse group or,
2-If you expressing your own idea with original wording or,
3-if you are a republican, or neocon toady.
I hope this clears it up for you.
August 11th, 2008 at 4:26 pmJMOHR Says:
————————————————————-Just evidence of a lack of intellectual curiosity, ethics and originality.
Oh gawd! McCain has completely morphed into Bush!
August 11th, 2008 at 4:27 pmshoeless, let’s not get rash here, wait until mccain falls off his bicyle…
August 11th, 2008 at 4:28 pmOK – in all probability, McCain’s speechwriter plagiarized parts of the historical content. Big deal. Who cares. We should be concentrating on the other neocon Republicon slop that issues forth from McBush’s mouth. We should highlight the disaster that McBush and Cheney have created not just in Georgia but in most of the world. When will the Dems start slamming McBush, Cheney and the rest of lying, cheating, corrupt Republicons that have brought this country to near disaster internationally and in our own economy?
August 11th, 2008 at 4:30 pm62. shoeless Says:
Oh gawd! McCain has completely morphed into Bush!
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http://traitorjoe.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/mcbush_2.jpg
August 11th, 2008 at 4:30 pmBobwurst, OK, but if he chokes on a pretzel and gives himself a black eye it’s all over.
August 11th, 2008 at 4:30 pmJeez jonny! Did you have to post the link to that picture? Now I won’t be able to sleep until Nov.5!
August 11th, 2008 at 4:33 pmTriplekick is referring specifically to this post:
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/27/mccain-plagiarism/
which was derived from a comment of mine in reaction to this post:
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/26/embargoed-mccains-speech-to-the-los-angeles-world-affairs-council/#comment-4520770
in which I stated:
“McCain is plagiarizing an Adniral and recycling some of his words from 2004.
McCain today: I detest war. It might not be the worst thing to befall human beings, but it is wretched beyond all description. When nations seek to resolve their differences by force of arms, a million tragedies ensue. The lives of a nation’s finest patriots are sacrificed. Innocent people suffer and die. Commerce is disrupted; economies are damaged; strategic interests shielded by years of patient statecraft are endangered as the exigencies of war and diplomacy conflict. Not the valor with which it is fought nor the nobility of the cause it serves, can glorify war. Whatever gains are secured, it is loss the veteran remembers most keenly. Only a fool or a fraud sentimentalizes the merciless reality of war. However heady the appeal of a call to arms, however just the cause, we should still shed a tear for all that is lost when war claims its wages from us.”
a) Rear Admiral Timothy Ziemer, July 4 1996–Seawolf Assoc. speech :
“…to the Navy for sending us to war. At the same time, none of us feel that in Vietnam there is a romantic remembrance. War is awful and when nations seek to resolve their differences by fighting, a million tragedies ensue. Look at Bosnia today. The story line should be hatred and ignorance. War is wretched beyond description. Nothing, not the valor with which it is fought, nor the cause with which it serves can glorify war. Neither do we share the exhilaration of combat ”
http://www.seawolf.org/assn/ziemer.asp
b) McCain, speech at the RNC in NY, 2004
War is an awful business. The lives of a nation’s finest patriots are sacrificed. Innocent people suffer. Commerce is disrupted, economies are damaged. Strategic interests shielded by years of statecraft are endangered as the demands of war and diplomacy conflict.However just the cause, we should shed a tear for all that is lost when war claims its wages from us. But there is no avoiding this war. We tried that, and our reluctance cost us dearly. And while this
war has many components, we can’t make victory on the battlefield harder to achieve so that our diplomacy is easier to conduct.
That is not just an expression of our strength. It’s a measure of our wisdom.”
As things turned out it was McCain who was the victim of plagiarism, by a fellow Navy officer no less. TP then apologized for the erroneous claim that was generated, but not declared as FACT to them, by me. And given the subsequent result tha McCain was simply re-hashing one of his old public addresses TP apologized for the error.
Furthermore I, as the source of an accusation, explained how I had come to suspect McCain of plagiarism through the resources available to me , also bowed to the facts and apologized. For the likes of Triplekick however, publicly available intelligence isn’t an excuse for mistaken judgment when it comes to a speech, but exclusive and unverifiable intelligence is perfectly acceptable when it comes to invading a country and no apologies for the cited cause when proven to be without foundation, are necessary.
I subsequently wrote several additional comments explaining in more detail how I arrived at my charges of plagiarism and also explained how they should be ignored given additional information that I was not privy-to and could not examine at the time and with the resources I had that I used to the fullest extent possible.
I’d suggest a documentary comparison with any Right-wing blog regarding how an erroneuos claim was generated and promoted and what kind of explanations and apologies resulted, once proven false.
Here;s an excerpt of the follow-up from the original charge
In an update TP remarked that “the Huffington Post noted yesterday, portions of McCain’s World Affairs Council speech were recycled from a pre-war speech the senator gave in 2001.”
In the second TP update, TP noted that “It appears that Ziemer’s speech may have been plagiarized from McCain. According to the McCain campaign, the senator used these lines before Ziemer — in 1995. We regret the error.”
Consequentially as the originator of the charge of plagiarism, I then explained how I arrived at my claim:
Quote: #110 As noted I brought this to TP’s attention. I spent hours yesterday trying to find the original quote with the only tool I had available–Google. I did an advanced search on:
“Not the valor with which it is fought” ,
and got 148 hits ( yesterday) . I looked at about 50 of the sites linked, on news sites and blogs and websites and all those I saw attributed the words to McCain and all that I saw were later than Adm. Ziemer’s use of the words.
I thought it very possible that Zeimer was the original source—BUT not abosulutely. After all the phrases in question are IMHO examples of great writing and eloquence, and I was pretty certain not McCain’s style. Nor however did the words seem likely to have come from Ziemer, in my estimation. But as far as I could tell Ziemer used them first.
TP took-up my observations and spent much of today verifying my research and confirming my suspicions.
Now the plagiarizm charge appears to have been reversed. The link provided in the update did not appear to show up in my specific Google search. I didn’t notice any link to McCain’s website in the returns I got from Google–they all appeared to be general blog posts and reiterations of the words relating to the latest Mar 29 2007 speech.
Now if you advance search the phrase, there are 371 links ( I just tried it). I guess I though checking 50 out of a hundred possible source constituted due diligence. Apparently not. I didn’t present my original research as irrefutable fact, but rather a high probaability that deserved further investigation.
Nonetheless, I think it fair I too apoligize for having instigated this report, given it’s results.
The larger issue of plagiarism still remains, but in this instance it appears McCain is the victim of it, and the victim of, not so much a rush to judgement on my part, but on an amount of research I thought was pretty substantial, but which turned out to be insufficient.
So I aplogize once again for that.
When it was clear my charges of palgiarism were contested I retraced my steps to see where I had gone wrong:
#130
To all…
I just tried Google search on the EXACT phrase
“When nations seek to resolve their differences by force of arms”
Gogle delivers 150 results. NOT ONE OF THEM points to McCain’s Senate site. Therein in lies the problem. In my original search McCain;s Senate site was likewise never flagged. It didn’t occur to me that Google wouldn;t find EVERY instance if the phrase that is available on the web. It didn’t occur to me to go to McCain’s web site and search all the speeches there–it has basic topic/date search tool of its own.
TP told me that they would investigate and substantiate my claims before commiting to a post. They told me they had contacted McCain’s people to get a comment/response before the post went up. Frankly I was rather surprised that my suspicions and research had apparently become ‘fact.’
And actually the first I saw of it was with the update and the 1995 link–which I hadn’t missed in my original research, I-or rather Google-simply wasn’t able to find it.
So there’s the cautionary tale.
Why Google STILL can’t deliver the link to the 1995 speech McCain senate page I don’t know. My suspicions were substantiated by the evidence I COULD find,…
August 11th, 2008 at 4:40 pm…but when I sent the tip I didn’t argue that I had an ireefutable case, just hwat seemd to be a good one.
I don’t like the McCains politics, but this plagiarism charge shouldn’t be used against him–beccaue, unless there’s some other evidence out there, it’s not, in fact true.
August 11, 2008
Alex Jones also talks with professor Michel Chossudovsky about the unfolding conflict in Georgia which according to Chossudovsky were carried out using aerial bombardments and ground attacks largely directed against civilian targets including residential areas, hospitals and the university resulting in the destruction of the provincial capital Tskhinvali and in some 1500 civilian deaths.
http://www.radiodujour.com/chossudovsky_michel
August 11th, 2008 at 4:40 pmFlippy McSpin doesn’t know a computer from a teletype. He just reads the material he’s given and “wings it”, with hilarious/frightening results.
August 11th, 2008 at 4:46 pmI find it humorous that our trolls here are jerking off to a possible mistake TP made months ago, to which they (TP) later apologized.
Yet the trolls turn a blind eye to an administration that has mislead us into war (WMD, anyone?) resulting in the deaths of thousands of our finest men and women (and gawd knows how many hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens), has outed a covert CIA agent, that spied on us illegally, that condones torture.
No sorry, I am wrong. I am not humored. I’m saddened!
August 11th, 2008 at 4:48 pm67. obamagr8 Says:
I want VP candidate Joe Biden’s take on this.
_____
Translation: “Hey, you guys, look over there! Over there! Aw, c’mon, you guys! Look! Look! Over there … you guys ….”
August 11th, 2008 at 4:49 pmThe only thing more hypocritical than Bushco complaining about what dems have done to oil prices is trolls (who rarely stray anywhere near a topic, reason, maturity, intelligence, relevance, civility, humor or respect) complaining about TP.
August 11th, 2008 at 4:57 pmHi pete. Just back from a mid-Atlantic week. Good birding, fishing, and crabbing. Still I have to get to work. You might be amused by the climate denier up at the endangered thread. Either way, your expertise will certainly be of value there. I am sorry I will not be able…
August 11th, 2008 at 5:35 pmPerhaps McCain and whomever wrote the wiki article got the material from the same source. Did you ever think about that, man? Well…that’s what you pay me for.
August 11th, 2008 at 7:51 pmThis is dumb. First of all, McCain does not write his own speeches, so if y’all are gonna attack anyone, go after the speechwriter and stop smearing McCain. Second: There are only so many ways to say “I went to the movies with my friend on Saturday.” (My friend and I went to the movies on Saturday. That’s about it). Similarly, there are only so many ways to say “Georgia became part of the Soviet Union in 1922 and became independent in 1991. It’s first few years were marked by civil unrest and economic crisis.” There are bound to be similar phrases and uses of the same words. Y’all are making too big of a deal out of this. Also, who was the Wikipedia editor that contacted PoliticalWire? What’s HIS political agenda?
August 11th, 2008 at 9:20 pmCultureWarrior Says:
This is dumb. First of all, McCain does not write his own speeches, so if y’all are gonna attack anyone, go after the speechwriter and stop smearing McCain.
I heard the audio of McCain giving his “speech” and he struck me as sounding just like a junior high school kid reading a report…………now I see the same level of intellectual depth was used in the writing of it.
This guy finished 494th out of 499 in his class at the Naval Academy.
HASN’T THE BUSH PRESIDENCY TAUGHT US ANYTHING?!?
We don’t need another President that people would like to have a beer with.
August 11th, 2008 at 9:43 pmWe need a President who has the intellectual capacity to play the game of geopolitics and not play checkers while adversaries and “allies” are playing chess.
Did you miss the part about the speechwriter? Surely you didn’t because you quoted it in your comment. Big deal if he finished 494th out of 499 in his class at the Naval Academy. The speechwriter wrote it and instead of talking about that, you go immediately into criticizing (McCain’s) level of intellectual depth in writing it. McCain didn’t write the speech. Stop trying to maneuver around that. I’m sorry, but you just can’t smear him on this one.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:01 pmI care that he finished at the bottom of his class. I expect my leaders to be of superior intellect and caliber and to have a overarching committment to success in all their endeavors.
August 12th, 2008 at 12:47 am.
It’s not PLAGIARISM when I mix-N-match sentences… is it?
Just ask Cindi how that recipe works. “Your recipe says to cream the butter THEN add the egg, mine says to ADD the beaten egg to the creamed butter… See the difference? I thought so. Now watch me become Miss Cowchip… Where’s that banana for my talent show?”
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August 12th, 2008 at 1:06 amDr. Hussein Matt Says:
Oh goody, Then we can call her Trippy_10_”Cheeto fingers”!
August 12th, 2008 at 1:11 am#
dbadass Says:
I care that he finished at the bottom of his class. I expect my leaders to be of superior intellect and caliber and to have a overarching committment to success in all their endeavors.
August 12th, 2008 at 12:47 am Add Karma Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
CulturWarrior Responds:
That’s great that you care that he finished at the bottom of his class, but that’s not the issue here. Since you can’t debate the subject of this story, you have to resort to smearing McCain by latching onto the fact that he finished at the bottom of his Naval Academy class. I think this started out as an attempt to smear him for alleged plagiarism. It was pointed out that McCain doesn’t actually write his speeches and that the speechwriter should be held accountable for any plagiarism. Since, by some miracle, y’all appear to realize that fact, all y’all can do, in a desperate attempt to still smear McCain, is latch on to some irrelevant issue.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:50 amATTENTION! Urgently!!! In Kutaisi the group of insurgents from the Ukrainian and Baltic mercenaries is generated. They have been noticed in the form of the Russian Army and armed by the Russian weapon!!! With them there are some persons with photo-and video equipment!!! Probably to prepare grandiose provocation!!! The information is received through SMS from the German tourist of the Russian origin blocked in Kutaisi. 11.08.2008 // 14:50 It should be had in view of at reading news!
August 12th, 2008 at 3:13 am