Neocons Call For U.S. To Launch War With Russia
Neocons Call For U.S. To Launch War With Russia
Today the New York Times reports that Russia is escalating its war with Georgia, “moving tanks and troops through the separatist enclave of South Ossetia and advancing toward the city of Gori in central Georgia” and even bombing parts of Tibilisi, the Georgian captial.
Russia’s increasing aggression is putting a spark into American neoconservatives. Today on the Times op-ed page, one of their leaders, William Kristol, claims the U.S. must “defend” Georgia’s sovereignty as a reward for its participation in Iraq, while the conservative Washington Times is calling for “maximum pressure” on Russia:
Bill Kristol: [Georgia] has had the third-largest military presence — about 2,000 troops — fighting along with U.S. soldiers and marines in Iraq. For this reason alone, we owe Georgia a serious effort to defend its sovereignty. Surely we cannot simply stand by as an autocratic aggressor gobbles up part of — and perhaps destabilizes all of — a friendly democratic nation.
Washington Times: It is in America’s interest to exert maximum pressure on Russia to withdraw its troops and halt the interference in Georgian territory. This latest act shows the need for greater resolve in establishing a European security system that can be an effective check on Russian power
Writing in the Washington Post today, Robert Kagan goes even further, suggesting that the Georgia-Russia conflict may be the start of World War III:
Do you recall the precise details of the Sudeten Crisis that led to Nazi Germany’s invasion of Czechoslovakia? Of course not, because that morally ambiguous dispute is rightly remembered as a minor part of a much bigger drama. [...]
The mood is reminiscent of Germany after World War I, when Germans complained about the “shameful Versailles diktat” imposed on a prostrate Germany by the victorious powers and about the corrupt politicians who stabbed the nation in the back.
Like a good neoconservative, Kagan also links the Western response to the conflict and its wider policy towards Russia as “appeasement.”
Matthew Yglesias asks of Kagan’s World War II analogy: “If we launch a war with Russia — which would seem to be the point of busting out the analogy — then how are we going to find the time to launch wars with Iran and China?”
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Neocons Call For U.S. To Launch War With Russia
Sure
As soon as you clowns and cowards enlist to fight it , we’re there…….
August 11th, 2008 at 10:40 amThese freaks are beyond incredible. They will destroy the world given half a chance.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:41 am“Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.” John Stuart Mill
WHEN are we going to accept, recognize and deal appropriately with this indisputable fact: Conservatives are mentally defective. They are deranged. The “reality based Community” will NEVER win until we accept this fact and hit it head on.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:43 amMost of the neocons will keep their traps shut. They know Georgia is the pawn exchanged for Russia being hand’s off when Israel attacks Iran’s nuclear facilities. Uncle Sam is more than readay to contain the blowback. Welcome to George Bush’s late night RISK game.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:43 amAs anyone with a brian (not the kritol ball)knows we are to tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan to help Georgia muchless…… defend our own country from an attack.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:44 amThe rules are the same – it takes two idiots to start a war. In this case, there are three. Looks like they’re all beating their chests and shouting ‘I’m The Greatest”.
Methinks the U.S. Congress needs to come back to work along with the U.N. This has gone on long enough.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:49 amJCS Chairman Mullen has a light caseload managing two wars, that needs to be upped to two World Wars.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:50 amvia C&L: If any of this has left anyone confused, thankfully the NYT’s James Traub has a very good rundown on how this all managed to unfold so far.
Taunting the bear
By James Traub
Published: August 10, 2008
The hostilities between Russia and Georgia that erupted on Friday over the breakaway province of South Ossetia look, in retrospect, almost absurdly over-determined. For years, the Russians have claimed that Georgia’s president, Mikheil Saakashvili, has been preparing to retake the disputed regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and have warned that they would use force to block such a bid. Saakashvili, for his part, describes today’s Russia as a belligerent power ruthlessly pressing at its borders, implacably hostile to democratic neighbors like Georgia and Ukraine. He has thrown in his lot with the West, and has campaigned ardently for membership in NATO. Vladimir Putin, Russia’s former president and current prime minister, has said Russia could never accept a NATO presence in the Caucasus.
The border between Georgia and Russia, in short, has been the driest of tinder; the only question was where the fire would start.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:51 am[...]
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/10/europe/10traub.php
Someone’s Themistat is always set low.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:51 amNeocons Call For U.S. To Launch War With Russia
– - All these neocons are chickenhawks but TP’s headline is the stuff of Charles Foster Kane.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:51 amchristopher wiwi Says: As anyone with a brian (not the kritol ball)knows we are to tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan to help Georgia muchless…… defend our own country from an attack.
Thanks for the unintended humor Chris.:)
August 11th, 2008 at 10:52 am‘Get a Brian, Morans!’ :)
Ah, the wonderful neocons. Any war will do as long as it’s not their blood being spilled. Gotta keep that war machine rolling. Norman Podhoretz probably had morning wood this morning and didn’t realize the cause until he turned on the news. Then Themis asked him where the beef was and Mr. Podhoretz happily obliged.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:52 amSo let Bill Kristol go over there and serve. I say NO to war!
August 11th, 2008 at 10:54 amDumb Question: Wonder if we could put up a picture of Bush talking to Putin at the Olympics ????
August 11th, 2008 at 10:54 amI guess themis is standing in line right now to enlist and volunteer to be the first US soldier to go into Russia, right? ……… Right?
August 11th, 2008 at 10:56 amIf neocons want war then they have to have something to do with it.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:56 amDumb Question: Wonder if we could put up a picture of Bush talking to Putin at the Olympics ????
Gee, I dunno. I kinda like those still pictures of Little Billy Kristol. He always looks so pensive, so thoughtful, so deep.
Then he opens his mouth.
LOL
August 11th, 2008 at 10:59 amIt looks like the U.S. and Israel are happy to sell arms, but exercise major diplomatic pressure on behalf of Georgia? Nahhh!
The NYT has a piece with Georgians angry at the U.S. for doing little to nothing on their behalf. The Jerusalem Post has Israel dancing away from diplomatic pressure, citing that yellow brick road runs through Washington, DC.
Proxy wars are fought with arms from their allies. Notice they don’t take place on home territory, US or Russia. Watch closely what happens next. If Russia is occupied in Georgia, that gives them a great excuse for not rushing to the aid of their ally, Iran. Me thinks a fix is in. Russia gets to tamper in Georgia, while Israel and the US make mischief in Iran.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:00 amDumb Question: Wonder if we could put up a picture of Bush talking to Putin at the Olympics ????
– - It’s only dumb because one of those guys felt he HAD to stay on an interminable vacation while war breaks out. Maybe he can cuts some brush along the Wall while he’s there too.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:01 amMay I add to the USA talking about disproportianate response, rule of law, etc. :
8 years ago, that may have had some authority. But after the last 8 years, using these words seems to be a way of voicing the moral high groung while condoning the moral low ground – That is, with our recent history, I could easily see Russia listening politely but expecting that the USA wouldn’t actually mean anything by their words.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:02 amWar, war and more war! Sure why not? “Don’t cost nothin’.” -Bluto Blutarsky
The US going to war with Russia for war with Georgia is like Russia going to war with the US for war with Iraq!
August 11th, 2008 at 11:03 amNeocons/armchair generals never saw a war that they didn’t think was worth fighting.
No mention of the fact that none of them have ever seen or been in a war, as long as it is fought with OPK and OPM (other people’s kids and other people’s money), they are all for it.
Anyone who has ever been in a war would never want another one if it could be helped. These guys who are so quick to commit other people into a war would pee in their pants and go screaming for the sidelines or dive for the nearest foxhole. Cowards. One and all.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:04 amSo, are the same people who are coming down hard on Obama for daring to take a vacation in Hawaii also coming down hard on Bush for continuing his vacation in China?
I’m sure the people of Georgia felt all warm and comfy as the bombs rained down on their heads and they could see Bush waving his little American Flag at the swimming events.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:04 amThere are same thousand of civil people died because of Georgia. Open your eyes. It is not game! Forget about all Rusian\’s threat, which you have read before, it\’s no matter now! Ignore info propaganda of cnn, bbc, etc. Search for truthful photo and video from Sourth Osetia capital. Forget about ideology now!
August 11th, 2008 at 11:05 amRussia? We can’t even beat a group of goat herders who throw rocks!
August 11th, 2008 at 11:05 amWhen Joe Klein (Joke Lyin’) is against war, you know you’ve gone too far.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:07 amNeo-conservitative stupidity is superior to the speed of light. Why? Simple, the speed of light has a limit, neo-con idiocy, as proven again and again, has absolutely No limit.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:11 amImpeach Pelosi, Cheney and Bush and Save the Constitution! Come on January 20th, 2009!
Kristol: [Georgia] has had the third-largest military presence — about 2,000 troops — fighting along with U.S. soldiers and marines in Iraq. For this reason alone, we owe Georgia a serious effort to defend its sovereignty.
BUT…
When UK forces get killed by US forces because ANG pilots can’t tell the difference between a Zil-157 truck of typical engine- in-front-of-the-cab design and British Pinzgauer cab-over-engine trucks the families of the dead don’t deserve to have the US pilots even explain what happened in even video-testimony to a British court of inquiry.
AND…
When US command provides a bunch of Marines their own politically motivated definition of international waters that no other nation recognizes around the Shaat Al Arab that leads them to be captured by a larger and better-equipped Iranian naval force defending its waterways from military incursions, the Brits are on their own and get vilified in US media for being cowards for not fighting to the death against hopeless odds. (Though actually it was best that the US stayed-out of that incident altogether–they’d have only made it worse).
Kristol’s estimation of who owes whom what is, not surprisingly, complete bollocks.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:11 amThe people playing the late night RISK game don’t give a hoot about real people, dying by the thousands. Photos of wounded elderly women are heart breaking. They show the sociopathic depths of many current world leaders.
Meanwhile chief sociopaths Bush & Putin prance around the Beijing Olympics. A pox on their houses!
August 11th, 2008 at 11:14 amGuido the Loving OBGYN Says: unbelievable…Iraq is a poorly executed war of ideas. America and the West could smash Russia, but it would be very ugly on both sides.
I have a hard time finding a trillion dollars to be poor… :)
I don’t care who could smash who. We’ve evolved brains with the capacity for thought and planning – let’s use THAT, not violence, descruction and blood shed. We’re acting like troglodyte chimpanzees who do not have the same capacity for thought and planning that we do. And then, even they aren’t THIS violent.
Conservatism sould be considerd a violent form of mental disease.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:14 amGeorgia makes genocide of Ossetia’s nation. We could not aford it. Nobody can do so. Even friends of mister Bush.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:15 amRegime of Saakashvilli should be broken.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:18 amGTLOBGYN: “And if they were a full-fledged NATO memeber we would be mobilzing to attack Russia right now.”
But they aren’t in NATO, and how would NATO defend Georgia, and with what, exactly?
August 11th, 2008 at 11:19 amNATO is still in Bosnia, and it’s in Afghanistan. NATO forces are made up of member-state forces whose first priority is national defense, paid for by their taxpayers.
Think about it.
It is so easy to visualize these Nazis laughing hysterically, launching all our missiles at (doesn’t matter who) while nukes are reigning all over our country. We need to rise up by the millions, try these people and then turn them over to a world court for genocide trials.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:22 amTroops of Georgia are killing civill people because this people can’t fight. They are killing even kids. That isnt democracy
August 11th, 2008 at 11:23 amFor this reason alone, we owe Georgia a serious effort to defend its sovereignty.
Since when do neocons give a s**t about another country’s sovereignty? The hypocrisy of these a$$holes is mind boggling.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
August 11th, 2008 at 11:24 amWhy is it that, in any foreign policy situation over the last several years, the first response is always a military response? Don’t we have anything else in our foreign policy arsenal?
August 11th, 2008 at 11:25 amBond Says:
Troops of Georgia are killing civill people because this people can’t fight. They are killing even kids. That isnt democracy
And here, we have the latest “Kuwaiti babies dumped from incubators” propaganda, by a helpful “concerned citizen.”
August 11th, 2008 at 11:29 amI read this this morning:
‘Nearly 700,000 Russian troops pounded about 20,000 Georgian troops’
Do we have 700,000 troops ready to counter with? Are these war-thirsty armchair generals insane? Do they not remember the so-called Cold War? Are we ready to point nuclear missiles at Russia again?
Do we even have a leg to stand on? We’re trying to control the Middle East and we think we can tell Russia what to do?
As my dad would have said, “You ask so many questions Mary!”.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:32 amAre the neo-cons actually surprised to see Russia push back…. Our threats against Iran, our egging on of Georgian government, our insistence of missils in Poland….we’ve been pushing at the edges for quite a while now….the Russians are no appeasers.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:32 amAbkhazia and Ossetia are little countrys. And Georgia thought that it will be simple to destroy Abkhazia and Ossetia. But in this world still are some cauntrys who can’t aforg genocide. Russia will defend Abkhazia and Ossetia.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:33 amI posted this once on Thinkfast, but the Themis p*ssfight was more important, I guess.
Authorities in the unrecognized republic of South Ossetia claim that dark-skinned mercenaries took part in the attack on Tskhinvali, reports RIA Novosti, citing [a] representative of the South Ossetian president in Russia Dmitry Medoev. He said there were bodies of many Georgian soldiers on the streets on Tskhinvali. “There were blacks among the dead, who were probably either mercenaries or instructors in the Georgian armed forces,” Medoev said.
Through his Ossetian puppet, Putin’s sticking a greasy thumb into Bush’s eye, with this statement. He’s telling George that he must invade Ossetia, because there are outside forces at work, attempting to overthrow a duly-elected government. And what can The Cowboy King say about it, without looking hypocritical?
August 11th, 2008 at 11:33 amChris L Says:
Why is it that, in any foreign policy situation over the last several years, the first response is always a military response? Don’t we have anything else in our foreign policy arsenal?
August 11th, 2008 at 11:25 am
_______
Cause as with any conflict, there’s a crapload of money and oil involved:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan_pipeline
August 11th, 2008 at 11:35 amOMFG! There should be a law against criminal stupidity.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:36 amThese assf*(ks deserve immediate execution in order to preserve the planet.
Let’s look at this a little deeper and read between the lines.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:36 amAny excuse to suspend the constitution and withhold an election due to martial law is what I read into this.
Next step, George declares martial law and proclaims himself ruler for life.
Bond Says:
Abkhazia and Ossetia are little countrys. And Georgia thought that it will be simple to destroy Abkhazia and Ossetia. But in this world still are some cauntrys who can’t aforg genocide. Russia will defend Abkhazia and Ossetia.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:33 am
______
According to Amnesty International and HRW, Russia and Georgia are equally guilty of targeting civilians.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:37 amAn old Russian saying: “A fish rots from the head first”
August 11th, 2008 at 11:38 amBill Krisol need to understand that provinces of Ossetia and Abkhazia do not want to be part of state of Georgia.
They never wanted to be part of Georgia in any time in history.
Georgia became what it is after the collapse of the Soviet Union,and these two rebel separatist states has been fighting since then in both provinces.
So what does it do to get America invloved in this war on Russian border?
Bill Kristol is an idiot if he thinks that US soldiers should get involved in this conflict, by joining the fight against local rebels and Russians who live in these provinces next to Russian territory itself.
But looking at Neocons record…it comes as no surprise to hear Bill Kristol talking of getting America involved, where America should not.
This is a local and ethnic dispute, sending our troops will only complicate the matter,specially with Russia.
Georgia joined the Coalition in Iraq to please Bush administration hoping that USA will use its influence and weight to get Georgia to be a NATO member nation..something Europeans are uncomfotable with and Russian do not like it at all seeing NATO troops on their borders.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:39 amIf Georgia was a NATO member today,we might be now fighting Russians to defend Georgia as a NATO member.
US instructors have prepared froops of Georgia for this war.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:39 amThese assf*(ks deserve immediate execution in order to preserve the planet.
Yo, Ho; a little early for slurring gays, isn’t it?
We have gays in the military – and they’re a lot tougher, and more honorable than this bunch.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:39 amBond Says:
US instructors have prepared froops of Georgia for this war.
That’s the all gay regiment?
August 11th, 2008 at 11:41 amLinking to a Joe Klein article that links back to Yglesias’ new niche here at TP, is a shrewd promotional move, TP.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:46 amread what is happening —http://www.ruvr.ru/main.php?lng=eng&e=45
August 11th, 2008 at 11:47 amGOP foreign policy has lead to this war, not just by example, but by the multiple threats made against Russian interests. The US invasion and occupation of Iraq, Afghanistan and continuous threats to Iran. The insistence of the missiles in Poland. The egging on of former Soviet states such as Georgia.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:49 amWhy not go to war with Russia. We have the greatest military in the world prepared to handle multiple conflicts. We have mobilized are population long ago to swell the ranks of our military to have fresh divisions ready to cross the Atlantic and to take on the Russian bear.
Oh, wait a minute. Bush failed to follow up in Afghanistan thereby assuring that US and NATO forces will have to ramp up efforts there and deplete our military. Oh, Bush involved us in a unnecessary war in Iraq and failed to plan for any sort of peace keeping after the fall of Baghdad. Oh, the United States failed to put itself on a war footing thereby depleting its ready active military for and even relying on the Reserves and National Guard to provide troops and equipment for Iraq and Afghanistan and now we learn from the RAND Corporation that studied 658 terrorist campaigns that the Bush administration followed exactly the one strategy guaranteed to be counterproductive to our success.
So Mr. Kristol, what are you suggesting that we do? Are you suggesting that we send troops? Are you suggesting that we go to the UN and convince the rest of the world that this is an illegal aggressive war to which the rest of the world should fight with arms? Are you suggesting that we just go to the use of nuclear weapons?
Just what in the hell do you and the rest of the neocon idiots want the United States to do?
Come on, give us an action plan. Tell us where we will replace the squandered military forces to enforce a military option.
No Mr. Kristol, you know that there is no realistic option and the Georgia will go down to defeat. However, you and your neocon friends will be able to bash the Democrats and other progressives who will be honest about what is happening.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:51 amI love US and US people. But Russia is my country. And I think that Russia is right in this conflikt. Genocid must be stoped.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:54 amMore war! War for everybody!
Yay!
August 11th, 2008 at 11:55 amThe one piece of good news about Georgia has yet to be mentioned on this thread.
For once in her undistinguished government career, Condoleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezza Rice might actually prove to be more useful than tits on a boar. After all, her supposed area of expertise is Russia.
Of course, it does kind of make you wonder why she wasn’t on point with this development before the invasion, doesn’t it?
August 11th, 2008 at 11:56 ambarfly – way, way off thread and if but why does calling someone an “assf*(k” mean that you’re “slurring gays”? I believe that the term may be relevant for both gays and straights, no?
Let’s not turn on each other folks!
August 11th, 2008 at 11:56 amAccording to Col. Sam Gardiner on Democracy Now today, Russia would likely use tactical nuclear warheads against U.S. forces should we intervene.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:56 amLedeen doctrine: “Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business.”
I guess Russia found its crappy little country, and now the Neocons are filing for copyright infringement.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:01 pmJMOHR Says:
——————————————————————————–
Why not go to war with Russia. We have the greatest military in the world prepared to handle multiple conflicts. We have mobilized are population long ago to swell the ranks of our military to have fresh divisions ready to cross the Atlantic and to take on the Russian bear.
Russian bear will protect civill people of Abkhazia and Ossetia. Even if somebody think that this people do not have enaugh rights to be alive. It is very bad that it US there are people whu likes genocide.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:01 pmBond,
If Russia is so special to you, why aren’t you bwck there, fighting in this one? Are you a Putin fan, too?
August 11th, 2008 at 12:04 pmInteresting video clip on BBCAmerica this morning showing the coward Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili running for his life, surrounded and covered by his bodyguards, during an apparent air attack by Russia. Maybe he’s not so brave without U.S. protection or without Georgie whispering sweet nothings in his ear.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:04 pmWell, I agree completely with getting involved in this conflict. As a start, we should give Kristol a rifle and parachute and drop him right in the middle of it.
Don’t worry, Bill, we’ll send the rest of the troops in right behind you! We promise!
August 11th, 2008 at 12:05 pmSince our hands are basically tied anyway, why do our American gorillas [Cheney, Kristol, Kagan, The Washington Times, et al] thump on their chests and MAKE THINGS FAR WORSE? Why do people continually ignore reality and listen to these people? Do you think Putin is going to smack his forehead and say, “WOW, these guys are right . . . What was I thinking?”
Or do you think our bellicosity might cause Putin to hunker down and stay the course? Give me Obama anytime over Senator [I’ve been here for 30 years, and only now do I have solutions to the shit I helped create] McCain.
NO MORE SILVERBACKS . . . NO MORE SILVERBACKS!!!
August 11th, 2008 at 12:07 pmupside99 Says:
——————————————————————————–
Bond,
If Russia is so special to you, why aren’t you bwck there, fighting in this one? Are you a Putin fan, too?
I like Putin. He is my president. And he makes many good things for Russian economics. Russia are stronger and stronger. And we will never colony. I like my country. And I will fight if it is nessesery.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:09 pmBond Says:
Russian bear will protect civill people of Abkhazia and Ossetia. Even if somebody think that this people do not have enaugh rights to be alive. It is very bad that it US there are people whu likes genocide.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
______
No, we don’t like genocide. But we recognize that there’s a very blurry line between “protecting an ethnic minority” and “collective punishment.” Is there any strategic reason for Russia to be putting troops in Tblisi?
Another important issue we need to keep in mind is that this also involves Turkey and the Kurds. The PKK just accepted responsibility for the bombing last week of the BTC pipeline.
Israel’s also involved, since they’ve been backing Georgia militarily along with us in order to secure Caspian oil supplies for delivery to Asia, putting them in direct competition with Russia and Iran over Caspian oil supplies.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:10 pmRussian are also the nation.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:10 pmvinylspear Says:
An old Russian saying: “A fish rots from the head first”
_______________
It’s supposed to be Sicilian and was used in “The Godfather”…
August 11th, 2008 at 12:11 pmWell listen, I’m not ready to send my grandson to fight the Russians because Mr. Kristol wants to defend a democracy in Russia’s backyard. The Europeans can decide if they want to fight with Mother Russia (They don’t).
Putin wants to control the transport of oil and gas to the EU and to the Black Sea. Georgia fell right into Putin’s provocative trap.
There may indeed be an understanding (we take Georgia, you bomb Iran) between the US, Israel and Russia. Would that be a surprise?
August 11th, 2008 at 12:11 pmThe stupid neocons seem to forget that Russia has long range missiles and won’t be reluctant to use them. The Russians are well aware of our military being tied down in Iraq and the huge US deficit which means that we have to borrow from China to buy more weapons. This time it is the US that is bankrupt and not the Russians.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:12 pmNo, we don’t like genocide. But we recognize that there’s a very blurry line between “protecting an ethnic minority” and “collective punishment.” Is there any strategic reason for Russia to be putting troops in Tblisi?
Georgian troops entred Ossetia and destroyd the capital. They killd 2000 civil people. Russia’s troops are a part of peacemaking troops in Osetia since 1999. And we have to protect civill people. It is our duty. People whu rulled Georgia’s troops should be punished. If 2000 civil people are enaugh for you, of cours. They was not US people. But they wonted to be alive. They was also people.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:19 pmhussein toasterhead ,
August 11th, 2008 at 12:23 pmany questions?
IF this were a just war to engage in (and I’m not sure it is), it’s still a moot point. We lost our credibility by invading Iraq under false pretenses. And our men and equipment are worn out from 5 years of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. The fact is, we cannot do much about the situation except speak loudly and carry a little stick.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:25 pmGeorgias governmant are international terrorists. They should be arrested.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:26 pmAmericans! What would you say if we wonted to controll Mecsica?
August 11th, 2008 at 12:32 pmI don’t think “Bond” is really a Russian.
The whole thing sounds like someone’s idea of a good joke…
Anyways… so Brusch sez he looked Putin right in the eye… which would mean Putin looked Brusch right in the eye too… and Vlad managed to not fall down laughing until he got out of the room… that’s self-control…
I can only imagine what Putin was thinking at that moment…
“And I will even take your lunch money too… you friggin’ moron…”
August 11th, 2008 at 12:32 pmAnd of course the invasion & occupation of Iraq, with hundred of thousands killed, & the gleeful excitement by neocons, Bush, Chenet et al about “shock & awe”, was never a disproportionate attack. I’m sure these war-mongers still believe Iraq attacked the U.S.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:33 pmWhen will Bill go and enlist. We all know the military has lowered it’s requirements and as low as they are now, I’m sure even Bush, Cheney, Rush and Bill Kristol all qualify!
August 11th, 2008 at 12:33 pmUS wont to controll Georgia. US gave to Georgia money to make troops and fight Osetia and Abchasia.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:34 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
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I don’t think “Bond” is really a Russian.
The whole thing sounds like someone’s idea of a good joke…
Ok. I understand. The death of 2000 people is only joke for you.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:38 pmOur troops are stretched thin already. Where is the cannon fodder going to come from. Is the draft far behind? Get your daughters and sisters ready. Get all the 15 year-old boys ready. Get your 50-year old dads and uncles ready. The neocons are going to War!! Again!!!
August 11th, 2008 at 12:38 pmvinylspear Says:
Let’s look at this a little deeper and read between the lines.
Any excuse to suspend the constitution and withhold an election due to martial law is what I read into this.
Next step, George declares martial law and proclaims himself ruler for life.
Actually, under Presidential National Security Brief 51, Bush arguably has given himself just that power.
Google it, read it.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:39 pmBond Says:
hussein toasterhead ,
any questions?
August 11th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
______
Yes. Why is it that Russia is so concerned about a little breakaway republic of 70,000 Iranians? Are they really so concerned about reunifying the Ossetians that they need to send thousands of troops in to Georgia and bomb Georgian port facilities? Sorry, I’m not buying it. This is a resource conflict.
I’m not saying that Georgia is blameless in all this. They’re just a pawn in a larger game, and I still haven’t figured out who all the players are.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:40 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
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I don’t think “Bond” is really a Russian.
The whole thing sounds like someone’s idea of a good joke…
Whan two bildings in New York was destroyd by planes I didnt think it was a joke. But how I can see, for you, if people are not americans they could be killd.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:43 pmRussia has not agression. Georgia have made agression. And we want to stop it.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:49 pmBrzezinski “forced” Russia to invade Afghanistan, and I think this is why Kristol wants another fight with Russia. The Russians have a lot fewer idiots these days while Bush has has a lot more neoconn idiots placed in DC.
http://www.democracynow.org/2006/7/10/veteran_journalist_robert_scheer_on_playing
The interview is with Robert Scheer and I think it just became much more important.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:50 pmIf somebody coll the protection of civile people – agression, I do not now what to say.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:52 pmOP1 Says:
Bond,
I am with you. American progressives support Russia. This website supports the aims of Russia. You guys are beating up an Ally of Bush. We are cool with it and support you.
August 11th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
_____
Stay out of this, P. We’re having an intelligent and mature discussion here. That excludes you on two counts.
August 11th, 2008 at 1:04 pmI totally agree with jp #61.
Tom #65, didn’t Condi Rice kinda miss the whole collapse of the Soviet Union thing?
Bond, you didn’t use to talk like that. Now you sound like Boris and Natasha on Bullwinkle.
August 11th, 2008 at 1:06 pmNeocons prediction of a thriving private economy in Iraq is also a fiction:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/world/middleeast/11baghdad.html?ref=world
August 11th, 2008 at 1:08 pmSimple truth about Georgia and Osetia
What is happening now?
Osetia is a small ethnicity between Russia and Georgia. We have only 100 thousands of people and 2 thousands of them already died because of ETHNIC CLEANSING by Georgians.
What it is happening now is simple GENOCID of Osetians by Georgians.
Who started the war?
Georgia has started the war and genocide by coming to the capitall of Osetia with tanks and cannons. They started to bomb civilians in the small city. And they killed 2000 of them in 3 days!!! All dying people you see in the newspapers – are Osetian defenceless civilians dying from massive shelling. Moreover Gergians also killed many OSCE peacekeepers who stayed on the border and tried to protect Osetia.
Why they do all that?
Osetia has beautiful lands near the coast of the Black Sea. From ancient times Georgia wanted to take those lands. They never ruled Osetia. Georgians already tried to perform mass killings in the past. All we could do to protect ourselves and our lands is to ask our another neighbour – Russia to stop Georgians.
How they could do that?
Why American newspapers and TV doesn’t tell the truth? Why 2 weeks before this attack American soldiers and instructors came to Georgia and made training to Georgian army (it even was shown by American TV). It is simple – America planned and then started dirty campaign against Russia. Dirty because they do it by Georgian hands and because the price for this is OUR LIFES. If nobody stops Georgians – Osetians will physically disappear as ethnicity.
Just look at the numbers with more attention – 2000 Osetians killed against 6 Georgians.
And it happened in Osetia – not in Georgia.
Why Georgian president lies?
He always lies. He lies to us, to his American supporters, to international community. Just remember his latest interview when he sits under the European Union flag, so everybody thinks that Georgia is the part of EU. Georgia was NEVER part of European Union.
What we can do now?
We can eat what official newspapers and TV gives us. But remember when they told us that Iraq had chemical weapon. They bombed Iraq and thousands of Americans were killed to let oil companies earn more on Iraq’s oil. But, who talks about chemical weapon now? The fat is in the fire now.
It is simple like that:
If we don’t stop Georgians now they will take Osetia’s land and kill most of Osetians.
WE DID NOT ATTACKED GEORGIA FIRST!!! IT IS JUST NOT TRUE, SAAKASHVILI LIES AMERACIN PEOPLE!!!!
August 11th, 2008 at 1:12 pmUh, labeling any of this rhetoric a “call to war” is simply childish exaggeration.
But I shouldn’t be surprised, should I?
August 11th, 2008 at 1:15 pmLOOCK RUSSIAN PRIVATE PRESS, OSETIANS SAYS: “Only russian peacemakers saved us, georgian tried to kill us all, they destroed Zhinval’s CEntral Hospital by canons, they first opeed fire on people and russian peacemekers..”
August 11th, 2008 at 1:19 pmIT IS GENOCIDE OF OSETIANS, PEOPLE OF THE WHOLE WORL – OSETIANS AND RUSSIAN PEOPLE ASK YOU TO LOOCK AT THE FACTS, WE DO NOT WANT WAR, WE TRIES TO SAVE YOUR PEPLE FROM GEORGIAN AGRESSORS!
OP1 and Bond:
Aren’t they cute together?
You guys try so hard, but you’re not fooling anyone.
August 11th, 2008 at 1:20 pmPotfry, if only that were true.
We’ve been here before with these guys. This rhetoric is ALWAYS a call to war where they are concerned.
August 11th, 2008 at 1:21 pmHey LIGHT,
August 11th, 2008 at 1:22 pmCalm down on the capslock there buddy. No one is listening to you anyway.
sorry, my english is bad, but I do not have words enough to tell about this hell, about great lie from U.S. and georgian goverments, show don,t show on TV how was Zhinvaly burned by georgian army, how they killed peaceful people and then sayd for the whole world, that we, russians, who never wanted war anywhere, ara agressor! =(
August 11th, 2008 at 1:23 pmBloody Billy should have never been permitted to play with his GI Joe. The guy is a worthless warmonger who has never been right on anything. The guy is a total loser and still gets time on this board.
August 11th, 2008 at 1:27 pmYeah good idea, kristol, you retard. Declare war on another nation that has ICBM’s
August 11th, 2008 at 1:27 pmyou believe CNN and BBC, when they lies you. What you want? kill all russians? gladdening, thousands of us are dieing by armor and weapon which USG gave to georgia.
August 11th, 2008 at 1:31 pmloosers are you, democracy? your TV shows only what your goverment wants, hm.. somebody said that free television one of the few parts of Democracy, isn’t it?
August 11th, 2008 at 1:36 pmI can give you a lot of link to video and foto info about conflict, but you dont listening russians as I understood, very well! =)
Did anyone catch Mccain’s offical response to this confict? He said basicallly that If he were president he would not allow the Soviet Union to invade the homeland without a strong military response. The peach and Vidialla onion industry are too important to our national security. He is going to consult with his close friend General Sherman to find out the best way to re-take Georgia and if he’s elected he will make Sherman the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
August 11th, 2008 at 1:50 pmLIGHT:
And if you truly are from Russia, the same goes for your TV.
Thanks for pointing that out to us, we had no idea our TV News lied…
Sheesh.
August 11th, 2008 at 1:59 pmSoviet Union? In had been destroed over twenty years ago, and now there are a lot of independent countries. We would never fight with georgian if they did not kill thousands of Russins in Osetia, we want peace! since 1991 we only destroing our weapon, a lot of our military bases are closed now. what do you want else? Today U.S. have three times more ICBM’s than Russia, we are not USSR, we don’t want war. What would you do if IRAN will come to Alaska and will try to kill all americans who lives here? Georgians come to osetia and started Ethnic clearning on Russian people, what we had to do? watch how our brothers and sisters are dieing?
August 11th, 2008 at 2:00 pmWhy did Light leave Fox off the list and cite CNN and the BBC? I smell bullshit again…
August 11th, 2008 at 2:01 pmI live in Vladicavkaz, look at the map, it is only 120 km from Zhinval and a few more than 300 from Tbilisi. A see by my own eyes refugees from ostia and injured peacemakers, and injured reporter from French News Agensy. I don’t need TV to see this hell, it is near my house. I heard when georgians bombed village Java not far from russian border.
August 11th, 2008 at 2:06 pmLight, I make joke abote Soviet Onion. In Soviet Onion hte only potato worth eating is Vodka! What a country!
August 11th, 2008 at 2:06 pmyou can watch Euronews, they have reporters in osetia, you can see this hell. You believe to your TV more than your own eyes?
August 11th, 2008 at 2:08 pmLIGHT Says:
I don’t need TV to see this hell, it is near my house. I heard when georgians bombed village Java not far from russian border
How do you know the bombs were Georgian? Really. Why is Russia bombing the Georgian Capital if you’re just trying to make peace? You sound like a bush neocon arguing that the USA needed to invade Iraq becuase the people who attacked us on 9-11 were in Afghanistan.
August 11th, 2008 at 2:09 pmLight, so now the news sources you watch are honest but others aren’t? Seriously, isn’t it true that you believe the news sources that support your beliefs about the situation?
August 11th, 2008 at 2:11 pmit is bullshit, we drink vodka no more than anybody else drink. and yes, potato our basic food. may be you will stop pouring mud on country which disappeared 20 years ago?
August 11th, 2008 at 2:12 pmAnd light, I apologize about my stupid jokes, I have a bad habit of joking too much. You’re communicating very well in a foreign language, even if I don’t agree with you.
August 11th, 2008 at 2:13 pmActually my first joke was at John Mccain’s expense, not the Former Soviet Union’s. The point was that mccain didn’t know the Soviet Union had disolved, and that he was so old that he personally knew a general from our civil war that was over in 1865.
August 11th, 2008 at 2:15 pmThe second joke was making fun of Yakof Sminoff, an american comedian who made his living doing “America, what a country!” jokes, in a russian accent. How about addressing the substantive points?
August 11th, 2008 at 2:16 pmour tv sourses don’t gives marcks about situation, there is a lot of videos made by cell phone by osetians, i also speak with refugees and i was scared to hear about what happening in 120 km from my house. And we have video, how georgians tanks comes to Zhinval, I know how russian PM and georgian flag are look like, it is impossible to be not true, i had friends in Zhinval, i have been to every june and july, there was no russian tanks.
August 11th, 2008 at 2:18 pm1) I said, you can watch Euronews, they are also in Osetia.
August 11th, 2008 at 2:23 pm2) here is video about burned Zhinval http://life.ru/video/4979
3) http://www.mail.ru – here is a lot of foto and video, and a lot of advertisments, but they on Russian Language.
“??????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???????” = “There are a lot of killed peaceful peoples on Zhinval strets” http://life.ru/video/4979
In this site all our videos about genocide of osetian people, about georgians barbarinan operation, and videos how the bombed Zhinval and Jaavfa
August 11th, 2008 at 2:27 pmahhh at last, the two front war – neocon and MIC nirvana. And for the Bible thumpers – Armageddon. This is all really too good to be true for the whack pack…and especially for mccain the insane.
August 11th, 2008 at 2:31 pmLIGHT:
August 11th, 2008 at 2:36 pmWhat a dramatic improvement in English language skill…. I call double bullshit!
we very sad that antirussian hysterics more important for you than truth =(
August 11th, 2008 at 2:44 pmMacCein will be agressive with Russia, he believe that cold war didn’t ended, but it is your choice. We believe that americans our friends, how your president said in 1990s, but your goverment do too much things, which friends are not doing =(
we very sad that antirussian hysterics more important for you than truth =(
August 11th, 2008 at 2:44 pmMacCein will be agressive with Russia, he believe that cold war didn’t ended, but it is your choice. We believe that americans our friends, how your president said in 1990s, but your goverment do too much things, which friends are not doing =(
Light,
First off, all of the heavey equiptment(as few pieces that there are) such as tanks/fighters(all 7 of them),artillery are old soviet era weapons for the most part.
Secondly, I dont believe that a tiny nation seeking NATO membership would level enitre cities for any reason and expect that to get them into the club.
Now we DO see plain as day Russian fighters bombing towns chock full of civilians using non-smart weapons killing people indiscrimently in what can be viewed as nothing more than a power play to take over the last remaining pipeline in that region that is not under Russian control.
Please understand that if you truley feel that thousands of Russians are/were dying 120km from your home that I feel sad for you that you were duped, be happy to no that in actuallity..no Russian citizens are being killed….only hundreds if not thousands of Georgians.
August 11th, 2008 at 2:46 pmWhile I agree that Kagan has used some dubious comparisions, and incendiary language, he certainly is not advocating world war III.
August 11th, 2008 at 2:47 pmThink Progress should not lose its objectivity and fall into the same ideological trap as many, if not most, on the right fall in.
Billy-Bob Kristol;
Launch a war with Russia- who, BTW, has about the same nuclear warheads and missiles to deliver them?
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR PHUCKING MIND?
August 11th, 2008 at 3:06 pm(Assuming you ever had one to start with)
No one, anywhere, has pointed successfully to a single comment by Kristol or anyone that could be interpreted as a call for war, unless you are a hyperventilating liberal who just chooses to see what you want to see.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:21 pmNeocons? Offering only war as a solution to the Russia/Georgia crisis? Really?
No one could have predicted! No one! Not a single human being could have ever anticipated such a response!
August 11th, 2008 at 3:37 pmThese right-wingers that advocate WAR WAR WAR, should be the first one to be sent to the front lines!
August 11th, 2008 at 4:46 pmSend the Twins!!!!! Send the that fat facist pig, Chenney to the front line! Send Perle or Wolfowitz!!! Better still, send Feith to the front line! Or Rumsfeld, with ‘the army you’ve got’!!!!
August 11th, 2008 at 4:49 pmWe won’t be able to defend Georgia’s “sovereignty” without looking like ass-clowns to the world- after all, didn’t we do the same thing Russia’s doing now when we invaded Iran. Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and Russia- war on four fronts.
August 11th, 2008 at 5:12 pmTHANKS SHRUB!!
I realize this is off topic, but it is nonetheless a burning question in my mind so I gonna ask it anyhoo:
Does there exist a picture of william Kristol where he doesn’t look like he’s in the middle of a particularly painful bowel movement? I just can’t possibly take Mr. No Lips seriously with that look of constant constipation on his face.
August 11th, 2008 at 5:19 pmA proxy war against Russia?
Cheney: Russian action ‘must not go unanswered’
August 11th, 2008 at 5:24 pmhttp://www.kfsm.com/Global/story.asp?S=8818729
I know Cheney would love to strike some Russian built nuclear reactors and foment regime change in Iran. Take that Russia!
August 11th, 2008 at 7:25 pmDecades ago, I attended a brief nuclear weapons training course. A portion of the course related how scientists and technicians placed two elements of radio-active materials on a rail device with sufficient separation that critical mass was not achieved. The experimenters would move the two masses in closer proximity to each other and, then, measure the changes in criticality. As I recall, the process was called “pinning the tail on the devil.” I have watched the Bush administration play an equivalent game with Russia for seven years. By the way: One day an enlisted man pushed the masses too closely together. Criticality was achieved. This gave the U.S. the opportunity to closely monitor the enlisted man’s death from radiation poisoning. We are getting VERY close to critical!
August 11th, 2008 at 7:30 pmIt’s raining Nazi’s alright. In Washington for the last 12 years since the Republican “Revolution”.
August 11th, 2008 at 8:37 pmSimple truth about Georgia and Osetia
What is happening now?
Osetia is a small ethnicity between Russia and Georgia. We have only 100 thousands of people and 2 thousands of them already died because of ETHNIC CLEANSING by Georgians.
What it is happening now is simple GENOCID of Osetians by Georgians.
Who started the war?
Georgia has started the war and genocide by coming to the capitall of Osetia with tanks and cannons. They started to bomb civilians in the small city. And they killed 2000 of them in 3 days!!! All dying people you see in the newspapers – are Osetian defenceless civilians dying from massive shelling. Moreover Gergians also killed many OSCE peacekeepers who stayed on the border and tried to protect Osetia.
Why they do all that?
Osetia has beautiful lands near the coast of the Black Sea. From ancient times Georgia wanted to take those lands. They never ruled Osetia. Georgians already tried to perform mass killings in the past. All we could do to protect ourselves and our lands is to ask our another neighbour – Russia to stop Georgians.
How they could do that?
Why American newspapers and TV doesn’t tell the truth? Why 2 weeks before this attack American soldiers and instructors came to Georgia and made training to Georgian army (it even was shown by American TV). It is simple – America planned and then started dirty campaign against Russia. Dirty because they do it by Georgian hands and because the price for this is OUR LIFES. If nobody stops Georgians – Osetians will physically disappear as ethnicity.
Just look at the numbers with more attention – 2000 Osetians killed against 6 Georgians.
And it happened in Osetia – not in Georgia.
Why Georgian president lies?
He always lies. He lies to us, to his American supporters, to international community. Just remember his latest interview when he sits under the European Union flag, so everybody thinks that Georgia is the part of EU. Georgia was NEVER part of European Union.
What we can do now?
We can eat what official newspapers and TV gives us. But remember when they told us that Iraq had chemical weapon. They bombed Iraq and thousands of Americans were killed to let oil companies earn more on Iraq’s oil. But, who talks about chemical weapon now? The fat is in the fire now.
It is simple like that:
If we don’t stop Georgians now they will take Osetia’s land and kill most of Osetians.
August 11th, 2008 at 11:06 pmhi guys!
I am from Russia and I speak English not good.
But I will try to tell you the truth.
So, on your TV is really propaganda. I watch your bbc-cnn everyday. (May be you will be surprised but we have free access to this channels. May me ask you: do you have free access to our, Russian information company? Did you watch it? Did you read our newspapers? Mmm?)
Why do you think that your info is right? Why?
Did you watch the interview of American guy
Open yours eyes! You are defrauded! People were killed by Georgia’s soldiers! May be you stop to listen your tv-radio and listen the osetin’s opinion????
If your country is so great why you are so naïve?
If you don’t believe me and my
I am not politic, I am a middle-class broad-minded girl.
And believe I don’t have reasons to let down you!
Sorry for my English.
August 12th, 2008 at 12:58 amDid you watch the interview with American guy, who lived in S Osetia and was evacuated with Russian’s help? Because georgia’s soldiers opened fire on his home. Now he in S Osetia. And he said american people about propaganda on your TV
August 12th, 2008 at 1:38 amLiberals suck cock nuke Russia!
August 12th, 2008 at 1:48 amhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoXuHl6V1Kg
but you must know that Tskhinvali is not Georgias territory, it’s capital of South Osetia. South Osetia is independent country, like other else.
August 12th, 2008 at 2:29 amSorry for my English
ATTENTION! Urgently!!! In Kutaisi the group of insurgents from the Ukrainian and Baltic mercenaries is generated. They have been noticed in the form of the Russian Army and armed by the Russian weapon!!! With them there are some persons with photo-and video equipment!!! Probably to prepare grandiose provocation!!! The information is received through SMS from the German tourist of the Russian origin blocked in Kutaisi. 11.08.2008 // 14:50 It should be had in view of at reading news!
August 12th, 2008 at 3:12 amFar more than 90% of the people in South Ossetia want independence from Georgia, it’s an occupation no more legitimate than the chinese occupation of Tibet. For long Georgia has been harassing South Ossetia’s civilian population while the west has deliberately looked the other way. The russian troop presence is mandated by the UN, the OSCE and the EU. Georgia initiated full-scale war by going to an all-out attack on the separatists in South Ossetia, probably after getting the green light from above. Russia responds harder than they expected. The situation is not good, but is ultimately the responsibility lies on Saakashvili. He’s a crook not to be trusted. It’s probably also a way for US to be “testing” Russia’s resilience, those war criminals won’t care if Georgia goes down the drain. Read e.g. this:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9788
Russia doesn’t want to be pushed around in its own back yard, understandably. This is deliberate provocation by the lackey Saakashvili, he initiated aggression, he holds the responsibility.
August 12th, 2008 at 3:32 amLook at the BIG picture here. Last week Naval war games ended in the Eastern Med with French, UK and US forces gamoing a strike on Iran. Now those same forces are moving to the Arabian Sea to link up with Naval and Marine forces already in the theatre. While this is going on, The US talks Georgia into attacking to predictable Russian response while the Corporate media spins the anti-Russina line. This still means Russian military forces are engaged in Georgia and unable to counter this combined force:
Carrier Strike Group Nine
USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN72) nuclear powered supercarrier
with its Carrier Air Wing Two
Destroyer Squadron Nine:
USS Mobile Bay (CG53) guided missile cruiser
USS Russell (DDG59) guided missile destroyer
USS Momsen (DDG92) guided missile destroyer
USS Shoup (DDG86) guided missile destroyer
USS Ford (FFG54) guided missile frigate
USS Ingraham (FFG61) guided missile frigate
USS Rodney M. Davis (FFG60) guided missile frigate
USS Curts (FFG38) guided missile frigate
Plus one or more nuclear hunter-killer submarines
Peleliu Expeditionary Strike Group
USS Peleliu (LHA-5) a Tarawa-class amphibious assault carrier
USS Pearl Harbor (LSD52) assult ship
USS Dubuque (LPD8) assult ship/landing dock
USS Cape St. George (CG71) guided missile cruiser
USS Halsey (DDG97) guided missile destroyer
USS Benfold (DDG65) guided missile destroyer
Carrier Strike Group Two
USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN71) nuclear powered supercarrier
with its Carrier Air Wing Eight
Destroyer Squadron 22
USS Monterey (CG61) guided missile cruiser
USS Mason (DDG87) guided missile destroyer
USS Nitze (DDG94) guided missile destroyer
USS Sullivans (DDG68) guided missile destroyer
USS Springfield (SSN761) nuclear powered hunter-killer submarine
IWO ESG ~ Iwo Jima Expeditionary Strike Group
USS Iwo Jima (LHD7) amphibious assault carrier
with its Amphibious Squadron Four
and with its 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit
USS San Antonio (LPD17) assault ship
USS Velia Gulf (CG72) guided missile cruiser
USS Ramage (DDG61) guided missile destroyer
USS Carter Hall (LSD50) assault ship
USS Roosevelt (DDG80) guided missile destroyer
USS Hartford (SSN768) nuclear powered hunter-killer submarine
Carrier Strike Group Seven
USS Ronald Reagan (CVN76) nuclear powered supercarrier
with its Carrier Air Wing 14
Destroyer Squadron 7
USS Chancellorsville (CG62) guided missile cruiser
USS Howard (DDG83) guided missile destroyer
USS Gridley (DDG101) guided missile destroyer
USS Decatur (DDG73) guided missile destroyer
USS Thach (FFG43) guided missile frigate
USNS Rainier (T-AOE-7) fast combat support ship
Also likely to join the battle armada:
UK Royal Navy HMS Ark Royal Carrier Strike Group with assorted guided missile destroyers and frigates, nuclear hunter-killer submarines and support ships
French Navy nuclear powered hunter-killer submarines (likely the Amethyste and perhaps others), plus French Naval Rafale fighter jets operating off of the USS Theodore Roosevelt as the French Carrier Charles de Gaulle is in dry dock, and assorted surface warships
Various other US Navy warships and submarines and support ships. The following USN ships took part (as the “enemy” forces) in Operation Brimstone and several may join in:
USS San Jacinto (CG56) guided missile cruiser
USS Anzio (CG68) guided missile cruiser
USS Normandy (CG60) guided missile cruiser
USS Carney (DDG64) guided missile destroyer
USS Oscar Austin (DDG79) guided missile destroyer
USS Winston S. Churchill (DDG81) guided missile destroyer
USS Carr (FFG52) guided missile frigate
Note two things about this force.
1. The preponderance of missle destroyers and cruisers to defend the fleet from Exocet, Sunburn and Yakhonts missle attacks from the Iranian littoral.
2.Two Marine Expeditionary Forces. Not enough troops to invade a country of 65 million, but certainly enough to seize and hold Iran’s oil facilities at Sharjah and Kharg Island.
Meanwhile, there was an Oped in the NYT by an Israeli historian stating the Israeli government is considering an all-out nuclear attack to totally destroy Iran as one of it’s strategic options.
Iran has been buying hundreds of the aforementioned missles, the Sunburn and Yakhonts have no current effective defensive countermeasures. When the US Navy wargamed the scenario two years ago, the first results were the effective anhillation of the Fifth Fleet inside the Gulf. If either the US or Israel attacks Iran and such losses occur from Iranian retaliatory attacks, how fast do you think it will take to escalate to Nuclear weapons? Especially considering some 200,000 Iranian troops sitting across the Shatt-al-Arab within striking distance of Basra.
August 12th, 2008 at 4:54 amto Bond and LIGHT
Why should civilized nations believe lies that government controlled Russian media produces?
I have seen those lies before. Same pattern every time – lie after lie, accusing others of murders they self conducted.
2000 dead? I do not buy this shit, not until this is confirmed by some independent authority. Well, latest news say that this number is 1500. Probably it is 50.
Because there is now, not a one photo of those dead people, then I rather believe that there are no such amount dead people because otherwise you know, we would seen this already.
And about what peacekeepers you are talking about? You mean those peacekeepers that did fire days Georgian villages from heavy artillery before wider conflict started?
And tell me, how did Russians have such amount of tanks, artillery and men ready for invasion when it was not planned in advance long time ago.
PS. I do not believe also that shit CNN produces but Russian shit I believe 1000 times less.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:44 pm> In Kutaisi the group of insurgents from
> the Ukrainian and Baltic mercenaries is generated.
What utter bullshit. I remember those fairy tales about Baltic female snipers in white tights in Chechnya.
Let me tell you what really happens right now – Russian cossacks are killing and raping civilians in Russian army controlled Georgian territory.
August 12th, 2008 at 2:10 pmBabaJaga007 Says:
to Bond and LIGHT
Why should civilized nations believe lies that government controlled Russian media produces?
For the same reason we should believe our Lamestream Media!
It’s been official for a long time, but obviously it has escaped a few people, Kristol and those like him and those that support their ideals are completely off the rails. They are nuts!
They will send everyone in this country to fight those that they want to but won’t. Wake Up SHEEPLE!!
Their is a reason why the PNAC site was taken down, it provided too much insight into these folks. Please wake up and know what time it is. It may already be too late.
August 12th, 2008 at 2:19 pmWhy do you trap on discussion with these “Bonds” and “LIGHTs”, guys? It can not to find any of serious discussion at runet – if there appeared any exception to the rule, there immediately occurred these “Bonds” and “LIGHTs” and began their “who first began”. The TV dragged the people into the mass war hysteria. Nobody notices and does not want to see details, conflicts and even fatal danger of the situation. But also in Internet.ru we cannot reasonably discuss the situation simply because of these “Bonds” and “LIGHTs”. Simply ignore them – they only need mass war hysteria and nothing else. They have all Russia for that deal now.
August 13th, 2008 at 5:20 pmWhy is my comment still awaiting moderation days later???????????????????????????????????????????
August 18th, 2008 at 5:54 pmFrom what I have been educated about this issue by others who have followed it more closely, Georgia was arming up through NATO months before this conflict. Russia saw this and since South Ossetians are of Russian descent they gathered troops outside of the border as a precaution. Georgia has been obviously attempting to annex South Ossetia which achieved its independence from Georgia by choice after the breakup of the Soviet Socialist Republics in 1991.
Georgia attacked South Ossetia first without provocation and focused their attack on primarily civilian targets killing over 2,000 mainly unarmed citizens in 24 hours bombing occupied hospitals, apartment buildings and private homes. Our media did not report on the first 24 hours of the attack. Once Russia launched a counter attack to drive out the well armed Georgian army and protect South Ossetian civilians, our media started covering it as “naked aggression” conveniently ignoring the Georgian initiation of conflict.
Here is an interview with a 12 year old Bay area girl caught in the conflict who escaped back to the States by Sheppard Smith of Fox News. Watch how fast Smith cuts away when the girl starts spilling the beans about the attack and especially when the Aunt chimes in with the facts. Smith promises to get back to them and gives them 30 seconds to continue and then cuts the Aunt off as quickly as possible when she continues with her observations of the conflict. I love Smith’s final comment- “And understandably, there are grey areas in war.” Yeah and truth isn’t one of them now is it Sheppard? 3:47 seconds. Watch it and form your own opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ
Think this may have already been posted but if not you certainly won’t get this view from the U.S. media:
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9788
The foreign posters above have it right from what I have seen and researched. More cold hearted manipulation from the phony liberal neo-cons who pushed us into Iraq and Afghanistan who all should have been eliminated in place of our youth and private citizens in Iraq. Would have been more humane to rub out all of these heartless psychopaths instead of our youth while Corporations line their pockets with billions of $ each month with contractor services and mercenaries like Blackwater. It’s all about undermining the U.S. by engaging us in global conflicts to erode our economic strength and line the pockets of the military industrial complex and all of these conflicts have no Constitutional basis or basis in reality for that matter.
Duh, Sadaam and Al Queda, Weapons of Mass Destruction, whatever happened to Osama Bin Ladin BTW. The neo cons could care less. He was n’t the target. We are. Uh, Patriot Act, telephone evesdropping, suspension of Habeus Corpus and Posse Commitatus, National Guard in Iraq while our borders lie wide open during a so-called “War on Terror” It’s all b.s. with the same goal- undermine us economically and Constitutionally while converting us into an elite controlled Socialist Oligarchy.
Read this report on line or download the free pdf and get your eyes opened for a change:
http://joeplummer.com/meet_the_system.html
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:44 ambmiccrocks, you are preaching to the choir. Go post up some con. and right leaning blogs where they only seem to care about Obama’s middle name. I promise you’ll make friends =D
August 25th, 2008 at 8:22 pmI think we are meddeling in issues not ought to be meddeled in. It’s like some people are looking at Georgia as if it’s protected by the Monroe Doctrine or something. I don’t think it would necessarily be the best idea if Georgia was in NATO. I think we need to stop pressuring NATO on them. It’s obviously rubbing Russia the wrong way.
If we didn’t try and push NATO on Georgia in the past this Russian-Georgian conflict probably never would have happened.
August 25th, 2008 at 11:08 pmLet’s see my choice is John McCain or that smart black man Barack Obama?
McCain who does not know how to use a computer but is willing to learn if we elect him – I’ll just vote for that smart black man.
My Choices are: John McCain who says the economic downturn is psychological? – Na! I’ll vote for the smart black man.
McCain who says you are better off under George Bush? – Nope I’ll vote for the smart black man.
Mc Cain who wants to continue killing more people looking for weapons of mass destruction that do not exist? – Gee! I’ll vote for the smart black man.
McCain who believes that we should stay the course but is not willing to support the people he puts in harms way. – I’ll take a chance on the smart black man.
Should I vote for a man that does not know that 9-11 was caused by Osama Bin Laden not Sedam Hussein? – Easy! I’ll vote for the smart black man.
Vote for the man who does not know if the Sunnis or Sheits are our enemies? – No way I’ll vote for the smart black man.
Vote for the man who helped put our government on the China, Saudi Arabia credit card? – Not a chance I’ll vote for the smart black man.
Vote for the man with the worst temper in the Senate to have his finger on the nuclear button? – No way – I’ll vote for the smart black man.
August 26th, 2008 at 3:59 pmNow I have seen everything!
August 26th, 2008 at 3:59 pmFirst John McCain has Cindy run for Miss Buffalo Chip in at the Sturgis Motorcycle rally. Now he has her acting as Secretary of State on a fact finding mission to Georgia! Condoleezza Rice – Cindy McCain what is wrong with this picture?
Kristol is his father’s son, a Trotskite Revolutionary still seeking to fight with his Marxist half-brothers in Russia. The Neo-Cons are nothing more than radical leftist who believe in continual revolution to achieve their dream of empire. Kristol, along with the rest of the Neo-Con Trotskites in the Bush Administration, including Bush, Cheney and Rice should be placed on trial for Treason against this country, war-crimes against other countries and then….well, you get the picture.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:14 amPlease be sure to capitolize Marine in any sentance.
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January 10th, 2009 at 7:13 pmThis is another example that the “old world jounalism of Murrow, Cronkite and Rather is dead and buried. In the case of the Time Magazine reporter Ms Tumulty, she seems to think the finding out the who, what, where, when and how have been replaced with a steno pad, which she records what ABC said in rebuttle to the complaint of Congressman Kucinich. There is a great disconnect with what happened and the points made by ABC. She asks little of no questions to ABC. She takes what is handed to her and repeats it vebatim and then calls that reporting. I call is stenography. Lida Sohbet sohbet sesli chat Gelinlik Modelleri
January 11th, 2009 at 11:01 amNo surprise here – a science denier who doesn’t believe in evolution can hardly be expected to believe in environmental stewardship.
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If you’re referring to Karl Schwarz’ articles, if they are true, how will we ever know unless the news media gets involved without bias? The military under orders not to speak out may never convey Karl Scharz’ expose’. Sesli Sohbet If Cheney was truly involved in 9/11 and protected in some way, then he’s being protected by what may be going on in the Caspian Sea area as well. That pre-9/11 August 10, 2000 article drives the point home to me that Cheney had a vested interest in the oil at the Caspian Sea area (before 9/11). Fx15 From all I’ve read in Schwarz’ articles, he claims the Taliban was working on a deal with Argentina with that pipeline in the Caspian Sea area and UNOCOL wanted the deal instead. Orjinal Lida It’s too much to get into here and I’m not able to convey in here what Schwarz has presented in his articles. Sikis Dig into Schwarz’ articles to learn more about the unnamed soldier’s experiences related to so-called Black Ops missions in the Caspian Sea area in Schwarz’ article. What Schwarz had to present in this article is an eye opener: kurtlar vadisi pusu izle
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