“If, like zooey, you feel a fetus at 8 months gestation is nothing more than a clump of cells…”

Now you’re going to have to find where I ever said that, idiot, and prove somehow that I actually “feel” that way.

Even you must know there’s a difference between a zygote (literally a clump of cells) and a fetus.

No, you would never disparage an existing child — not you!! You just support the Republican ideal of of not funding things such as daycare, education (NCLB anyone?), S-CHIP, etc. That’s not disparaging — that’s obscene! But if you can live with yourself, it’s nothing to me.

So you can stop projecting your own weak-assed “standards” onto other people, it’s really juvenile. Grow up now, and understand that you’re not the center of the universe, and you don’t get to decide how other people think. M’kay?

August 14th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
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It’s good to know that you do place some value on human life before it manages to “draw its first breath.” Perhaps my comment about the 8 month gestation baby/fetus wasn’t entirely correct. You still didn’t respond to the hypocrisy of not giving the same value to babies/fetuses of the same gestation, unless you consider “you don’t get to decide to decide how other people think” as having addressed it.

Of course, you have a link to show that I oppose daycare, education, S-CHIP etc. And I abhor the cowardly, hypocritical Congressional practice of passing legislation, but failing to fund it. I support funding all those things, but not a sudden influx of money to the same old programs with the same old rules, or lack of them, so more multi millions of dollars can be thrown away while politicians crow about how much they did for the nation’s children. I support funding those programs with strict accountability and stiff jail sentences for those who choose to feed at the public trough and waste the money that Americans work hard to earn. I choose to be realistic about govt and acknowledge that any politician of any party is likely to be getting something in return for any legislation he supports rather than blindly worshipping one party because they support more of the programs that I do.

If you’re going to call someone juvenile, it’s best not to end your post with a common teen cliche. ;)

Now you’re going to have to find where I ever said that, idiot, and prove somehow that I actually “feel” that way.

Even you must know there’s a difference between a zygote (literally a clump of cells) and a fetus.

No, you would never disparage an existing child — not you!! You just support the Republican ideal of of not funding things such as daycare, education (NCLB anyone?), S-CHIP, etc. That’s not disparaging — that’s obscene! But if you can live with yourself, it’s nothing to me.

So you can stop projecting your own weak-assed “standards” onto other people, it’s really juvenile. Grow up now, and understand that you’re not the center of the universe, and you don’t get to decide how other people think. M’kay?

do have a problem with people comparing fetuses to tumors when they want to make it palatable to abort them

Why would you have a problem with that? It’s none of your business what another person thinks or decides especially if it doesn’t effect you at all. Why are you anti-choice nuts so obsessed at controlling others and their decisions?

August 14th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
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Abort all the babies you want. I have no desire to control anyone’s decisions. But have the courage of your convictions and call it what it is. As long as you never refer to an unborn baby as a baby and give it no more consideration than you would a tumor, you aren’t a hypocrite. If, like zooey, you feel a fetus at 8 months gestation is nothing more than a clump of cells because it hasn’t yet drawn a breath, your position is consistent. If you ever place any more value on an unborn baby than you would a mole, you are a hypocrite. We can’t have hypocrisy. ;)

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Medically, it becomes a BABY when it draws it’s first breath — at birth. Until then, it’s in the womb, using the fetal circulation system, and does not use it’s lungs to breathe — it’s a fetus.

Now, you can go all emotional over the cute wittle babies, and no one wants them, and they have no value. Waaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!

Until you start treating all born children as if they have the same value, you argument about “consistency regarding the value placed on unborn babies/fetuses” is dead in the water.

August 14th, 2008 at 11:37 am
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Show me where I’ve disparaged any existing child and I’ll take responsibility for it.

As for the babies, have fifty abortions if you like. Women can continue to kill their unborn children as they have for years. Makes no difference to me. But if an unwanted child is just a lifeless fetus, but you refer to a wanted one as “the baby” or “my baby”, then you are a hypocrite. I’m really glad you wouldn’t have had to grieve if you had had an accident and lost a fetus the day before it was to be born. That kind of thinking really takes care of a lot of unnecessary emotion. ;)

Now, you can go all emotional over the cute wittle babies, and no one wants them, and they have no value. Waaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!

Until you start treating all born children as if they have the same value, you argument about “consistency regarding the value placed on unborn babies/fetuses” is dead in the water.

Still no definition of “baby”

August 14th, 2008 at 2:52 am
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A baby is a human child from the time of conception to age three.

We’d be making a lot of assumptions if we did that. I still say for that reason alone we should leave each to make the decisions which best meet the unique challenges thwy face

August 14th, 2008 at 2:51 am
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I have no problem with allowing everyone to make their own decisions. Create them just to abort them. Makes no difference to me. I do have a problem with people comparing fetuses to tumors when they want to make it palatable to abort them, but expecting others to place value on the ones they want. If your wanted child is a useless clump of cells until it is born and you expect no special consideration if it dies before birth, your position is sound. It’s not a matter of right or wrong. It’s a matter of consistency and hypocrisy.

As for the gems, how much money would you pay for a gem that is underground? Personally, I would expect to see a gem before I would pay for it.
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Knowing there is a bigger fish at sea which I did not catch is better than catching a fish the biggest fish I ever caught at sea…

August 14th, 2008 at 2:37 am
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A lovely sentiment, but not really relevant to the intrinsic value of unborn babies/fetuses.

What you miss is that I have passed no judgment. I accept that the union of gametes which yielded my children who I parent as best I can and who are magical beings is a terrific process. Still it is just basic bio 101

August 14th, 2008 at 2:33 am
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I’m not judging either. I simply say that every potential human being either has value or every one doesn’t. And for those who say a baby isn’t a baby until it’s born, how many would say, upon miscarrying at 8 months, oh well, it wasn’t a baby yet anyway.

Knowing there is a bigger fish at sea which I did not catch is better than catching a fish the biggest fish I ever caught at sea…

August 14th, 2008 at 2:18 am
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I didn’t ask for a law against abortion, now did I? I didn’t suggest anything from the govt. Only consistency regarding the value placed on unborn babies/fetuses.
As for the gems, how much money would you pay for a gem that is underground? Personally, I would expect to see a gem before I would pay for it.

I believe the earlier discussion revolved around the question of cellular mass versus “baby”.

It’s the C’s, G’s, A’s, and T’s ya wanna worry about

August 14th, 2008 at 2:08 am
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If you considered your children to be cellular masses until they drew their first breath, then your position is at least consistent. Though I do wonder why you took offense at my first comment. Why is there any need to grieve for a mass of cells that you believe is not unlike a kohlrabi?

You just can’t help yourself, can you?

Oh well, who cares?

Toooodles!

Nothing is ever as black and white as a troll would like it to be. I guess it’s easier for the simplest of minds to think that way.

If only they cared as much AFTER the fetus becomes a child.

August 14th, 2008 at 2:00 am
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I believe I acknowledged previously that it isn’t black and white. I just think hypocrisy should be pointed out wherever it is, even if it makes some people uncomfortable. You can’t have it both ways regarding the unborn. Have all the abortions you want. It makes no difference to me. But unborn babies/fetuses either have intrinsic value or they don’t, regardless of the desires of their parents.

It’s the C’s, G’s, A’s, and T’s ya wanna worry about