Top CEOs Give 10 Times More To McCain Than Obama; McCain Promises Huge Tax Breaks For Them In Return
Top CEOs Give 10 Times More To McCain Than Obama; McCain Promises Huge Tax Breaks For Them In Return
The Hill reports that the CEOs of the 100 biggest Fortune 500 corporations have given approximately 10 times as much to John McCain as they have to Barack Obama. McCain has received $208,200 from these chief executive officers; meanwhile, Obama has taken in $20,400 from the same group of people:
In 2004, the difference between the Republican and the Democratic candidates was much less pronounced in terms of Fortune 100 donations. Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) nearly kept pace with President Bush.
Among the same 100 individuals, the vast majority of whom were in their current positions in 2004, Kerry raised nearly three-quarters of what Bush did. Kerry brought in $74,500 from the business leaders, while Bush raised $103,200. The difference between the Democratic and Republican candidates this election is more clear-cut, with McCain’s 10-to-1 advantage over Obama.
McCain has cultivated support from mega-corporations by promising to dole out huge tax breaks in return should he win the presidency. As the Wonk Room reported in June, McCain’s plan to cut the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent would yield $45 billion in tax breaks for the 200 largest corporations:
Eight companies — Wal-Mart Stores Inc., Exxon Mobil Corp., ConocoPhillips Co., Bank of America Corp., AT&T, Berkshire Hathaway Inc., JPMorgan Chase & Co., and Microsoft Corp. — would each receive over $1 billion a year.
McCain would deliver about $4 billion in tax cuts to the five largest oil companies. He would also hand over $2 billion to the top 10 health insurance companies. Unlike the highest-rung of the corporate ladder, much of the rest of Wall Street refuses to be bought off. Those employees are giving more to Obama than to McCain.
While McCain caters to the rich, Barack Obama’s tax plan “offers three times the break for middle class families” than the proposals of John McCain. To clarify the contrast in the two candidates’ plans, consider this fact: John and Cindy McCain would reap over $300,000 from McCain’s own tax plan. By contrast, both the Obamas and McCains would receive a substantial, albeit much smaller, savings under Obama’s plan (see a comparison here).
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The only question I have here is are they paying any taxes in the first place. A study just came out saying most big corporations pay no taxes at all anyway. http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/alerts/451
August 16th, 2008 at 8:46 amWhich is why I will not shop at conglomo-mart.
August 16th, 2008 at 9:08 amVoting with your consumer dollars works very too.
Ask Michael Weiner about it.
Add McCain’s health insurance tax credits, and CEO’s make out even better. Once they shift financial responsibility for that pesky health insurance benefit to the employee, CEO incentive compensation should soar. That translates to even more kajillions in take home pay, courtesy of McCain’s income tax cuts on the rich.
August 16th, 2008 at 9:25 amAnd these tax cuts end up in the pockets of corporate chiefs as big bonuses and hefty salaries,while the average American worker left struggling to survive and to fight inflation with his little pay check every month.
August 16th, 2008 at 9:31 am44.5 billion? Thats nothing. McCain will just make up for that lost revenue by extending the occupation of Iraq, attack Iran and wave his magic earmark-wand
August 16th, 2008 at 9:39 amOur Democracy is at war with Plutocracy.
This election could possibly be the deciding battle in whether the United States remains a self-governing country or becomes a country that is run by the wealthiest Americans.
Obama represents Democracy, and has even funded his campaign with contributions of, by and for the people.
McCain represents Plutocracy, which this article verifies.
The choice this November comes down to a very simple, but monumental question: Do you want the United States to be a Democracy or a Plutocracy?
August 16th, 2008 at 9:51 amI really don’t understand how this race is so close! The Republicans have raped and pillaged us, spied and lied, and yet people are falling for their message! Are we really a country of imbeciles?
August 16th, 2008 at 9:51 amGee . . . who says Big Business doesn’t love welfare programs . . . as long as it is aimed directly at them and doesn’t get recycled through the economy.
That’s the problem that’s been brewing since Ronnie RayGun. Hopefully, we are witnessing the end of the era where the majority in this country believed the two great republican’t myths:
1. “the problem is government”
2. “trickle-down economics works”
The obverse of those statements are also wrong, however, so let’s just pray that we can all meet up somewhere in the middle.
August 16th, 2008 at 9:51 amonce again… befuddled by a choic of a word: soaks …
“While McCain soaks the rich…”
13. Slang. to overcharge: He was soaked by the waiter.
(thesaurus)
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: To exploit (another) by charging too much for something.
Synonyms: fleece, overcharge
Idioms: make someone pay through the nose
at least that’s the way I”VE always heard it used…
just sayin’…
maybe “While McCain lavishes/heaps/bestows/? the rich…”
August 16th, 2008 at 9:58 ampax Says: I really don’t understand how this race is so close!
It isn’t. The media pretends it is to hike their viewership.
I live in the red state of Georgia, and have so far only seen one McCain bumpersticker. The W stickers have been scraped off and are not being replaced. Most Conservatives I know are voting Obama, or Barr, or not at all.
Ultimately, so we don’t get complacent about the outcome, it’s probably a good thing that everyone thinks the race is closer than it really is…
August 16th, 2008 at 9:58 amWith Mcwars in office I personally stand to lose all the way,my taxes will rise and my wages will plummet.So in general I will not vote for the Old buffoon who says:
August 16th, 2008 at 10:05 amwe haven`t had a major crisis in 21st century
other country`s don`t invade other country`s in the 21st century
who doesn`t vote for veterans
who has missed 8 votes on alternative energy
who doesn`t know economics
who will lower taxes for the wealthy and corporations
who double my families health care cost
who in general is a complete imbecile and is so out of touch with blue collar America it isn`t funny.No offense old man but come November you are a bigger loser than you are know,this mess in Georgia is blowing up in your face as I type……….
So for an average investment of $20,800 these companies expect a return, in approximately one year, of $225,000,000 or 10,817 per cent, each, and all for doing nothing except forking over a little pocket-change.
“It shouldn’t be a surprise that John McCain’s plan to cut taxes, fight wasteful spending and grow jobs is preferred by business leaders and hardworking families both,” said spokesman Tucker Bounds.
Wal-Mart has actually closed some of its stores and its employees wages haven’t increased. Exxon, Chevron and Conoco—Phillips haven’t created any new jobs that I’ve heard about and in fact some gas-stations (which are franchises) have closed.
If record profits over the last few years haven’t created any jobs, why would increasing profits through tax-breaks magically do so? Why would “hard-working families” who have obviously derived no benefit from record company profits prefer that these companies earn even more money, without effort?
August 16th, 2008 at 10:05 amunbelievable: The choice this November comes down to a very simple, but monumental question: Do you want the United States to be a Democracy or a Plutocracy?
Indeed. If a hyper-kinetic cartoon dog becomes President the Oval Office carpet is going to need regular steam-cleaning.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:12 amWithout Obama’s push to reestablish the value of small donations from the lower classes, corporations, thanks to the tax cuts and subsidies that have left them with more cash on hand, will have bought his election outright. Though worries still exist, I say, “Not so fast, Mr. Permanent Republican Majority.”
August 16th, 2008 at 10:17 amunbelievable edited Says:
This election could possibly be the deciding battle in whether the United States remains a country that is run by the wealthiest Americans or becomes a self-governing country.
This makes more sence to me. The rich get richer, more people live in poverty, wages have been stagnant for the middle class, and CEOs are compensated for leaving companies by more than most people make in a lifetime (and how much taxes are paid on it?). Corps also have much more influence on the President and Congress because of the money factor. We don’t pay them enough to hang around after recess yelling for offshore drilling (which will benefit exploration companies more than anyone) or installing retroactive immunity into laws. The top 5% of wage earners get 90% of the discussion time about taxes, so how is it that they aren’t already in running things?
August 16th, 2008 at 10:20 amI think McCain is trying to get as close as he can to giving Bi Business tax cuts/breaks to match their profits. Talk about obscene…
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
August 16th, 2008 at 10:21 am5th Estate Says: Indeed. If a hyper-kinetic cartoon dog becomes President the Oval Office carpet is going to need regular steam-cleaning.
LOL.
I keep imagining it would be like the scenes of excessive decadence from Sophia Coppola’s “Marie Antoinette” while the people die in the streets from starvation.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:27 amIf McCain is (s)elected, I’ll choose the bluest state I find, move there, and seek to have it renamed to “What America Could Have Been.” But then again, the neonut influence in the federal government is making all states except Texas suffer.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:28 amBob Says: This election could possibly be the deciding battle in whether the United States remains a country that is run by the wealthiest Americans or becomes a self-governing country.
I was trying to be optimistic, but I agree that we’re already more of a Plutocracy than a Democracy.
But as long as we still get to vote, I’m holding out hope that this period was just a blip in our long history of Democracy.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:31 amI have to ask, was President Eisenhower obsessed with tax cuts? We had what, a 90% tax rate on the richest back then? I think it goes without mention that economic growth was quite explosive for the middle class during that period. With a Republican, we think we always have someone bad until someone worse comes along.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:32 amMcWars Says: With a Republican, we think we always have someone bad until someone worse comes along.
Isn’t that how Germany ended up with Hitler?
Clinton cut the upper tax bracket’s rate on the wealthiest Americans, and yet most people have the nerve to call him a liberal.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:36 amAs the Wonk Room reported in June, McCain’s plan to cut the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent would yield $45 billion in tax breaks for the 200 largest corporations:
The Democrats immediately need to do an advertisement that shows that if American corporations paid the same tax today they paid in the 60’s, we could wipe out our national debt in a year. They also need to point out that 2/3 of our corporations pay no tax. Then point out the tax breaks that McBush wants to give to these corporations that already aren’t paying their fair share.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:38 am$208,200?
CEOs are some of the richest people in America, and all they can manage for their favorite McCrazy person is $208,200?
Wow.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:40 amunbelievable: I keep imagining it would be like the scenes of excessive decadence from Sophia Coppola’s “Marie Antoinette” while the people die in the streets from starvation.
I’ve not seen the movie. But others come to mind such as Soylent Green or Monty Python’s The Holy Grail:
“Just because some watery tart throws a sword at you that’s hardly the basis for a system of government, is it?”
“It must be the King”
“How can you tell?”
“He hasn’t got shit all over him”.
“Help, help! I’m being repressed! Did you see that?! You saw that didn’t you…”
August 16th, 2008 at 10:42 am#pax Says:
I really don’t understand how this race is so close! The Republicans have raped and pillaged us, spied and lied, and yet people are falling for their message! Are we really a country of imbeciles?
No, we are a country of the unaware. The sad thing is that most Americans haven’t a clue who John McBush is. They still think he is a maverick and a moderate. If McBush comes to your hometown and gives a speech telling you that he will help the working man, and you don’t read anything in the MSM that contradicts that, then you are left believing something that isn’t true. The only way we can get the message out is by the Democrats buying ad time to introduce the people to the real John McBush. It shouldn’t have to be that way, if the MSM did their job. But until we can break the stranglehold the neoCON right has on the MSM, we will be fighting a constant battle.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:43 amSee, unbelievable, now that makes me glad Clinton didn’t get the nomination. With facts like those you present, I don’t have to feel guilty.
________________________________________________
Bilbo, you’ve had plenty of great ideas for advertising over the past several weeks. I really wish that the Obama campaign would read your posts. The media would become too embarrassed to cite McCain’s poll numbers in that case. They couldn’t pass anything as a “dead heat.”
August 16th, 2008 at 10:46 amXooy: CEOs are some of the richest people in America, and all they can manage for their favorite McCrazy person is $208,200? Wow.
Frankly I’m surprised they don’t already get to deduct their donations as a business expense….though of course that would really give the game away, wouldn’t it? :)
August 16th, 2008 at 10:46 amUS companies pay no taxes
Why do they need more help?
August 16th, 2008 at 10:48 amGood Morning all, a lot off topic today. sorry…..I have spent many year’s as a spotter. that’s a person who fixe’s photographer’s mistake’s with a tiny brush, air or sable..Now ofcourse we have photo shop and advanced technolagie’s that are quicker and more cost effective…Because of this self taught work I look at the tiny flaw’s ever where in the big picture…Maybe flaw’s is not the correct word here, more like minute out of place thing’s like the blink of a deer at 300 yard’s…
My point this morning is simple…I have noticed the absence of sign’s and bumper sticker’s…I was out and about last Wed. and again yesterday morning and narry a yard sign or sticker for any one running in the election…Did see 2 for a local judge running…That was it…Now I know my tiny corner of the world isn’t much but it is a 30 mile radious of businesses and rural america and when the last election was in the late summer run there were sign’s every where…Every yard seemed to have a sign….Not now, not one for either candidate…
I’m thinking the public is turning off, we, they have been bombarded for over a year and a half of constant campaigning….Most in my area are weary over price’s and lack of job’s…High unemployment and lower wage’s have taken their toll here..The food bank line has trippled in the last few year’s and many are just worn out……Just my local observation’s…..P.B. & J
August 16th, 2008 at 10:48 amWe are at War!
The masses must go shopping.
We are at War!
The rich deserve tax breaks.
We are at War!
Deficit spending is necessary and acceptable.
We are at War!
Domestic programs must be cut.
We are at War!
Civil liberties must be curtailed.
We are at War!
You’re either with us, or with the terrorists.
We are at War!
August 16th, 2008 at 10:49 am
5th Estate Says: I’ve not seen the movie. But others come to mind such as Soylent Green or Monty Python’s The Holy Grail:
Soylent Green seems to be as prophetic as 1984 and Fahrenheit 451… Though no more so than Thomas Jefferson who warned that all great Democracies end in a Dictatorship, like Ancient Greece and ome.
I’ll now watch MP in a whole new light :)
August 16th, 2008 at 10:49 amCEOs are some of the richest people in America, and all they can manage for their favorite McCrazy person is $208,200?
Remember, Zooey, this is what they gave directly to the McNumbNuts campaign. Who knows how much they have given to the RNC and the various 527s that are preparing their smear commercials at this very moment.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:50 amunbelievable Says:
I live in the red state of Georgia, and have so far only seen one McCain bumpersticker. The W stickers have been scraped off and are not being replaced. Most Conservatives I know are voting Obama, or Barr, or not at all.
The pollsters rig the polls. They choose 1,000 “likely voters” and then ask them if they had to choose between McBush and Obama, which would they vote for. There is not a choice for “I don’t plan to vote”, so that can’t be factored into the equation. The other thing that can’t be factored into the equation is how many more Democrats will vote than Republicans. And then there’s the forgotten young people who mostly have cell phones and are rarely included in the survey.
Another thing that skews the polls is that they mostly choose an equal number of registered Democrats and Registered Republicans. This does not represent the party affiliation of this country. Last I checked, many more people were registered Democrat than Republican.
The pollsters, like the MSM, have an economic advantage in keeping this looking like it is close. If it looked like a landslide, no one would need a poll a week to see what is going on and the polling outfits would lose money.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:51 amtom Says:
Remember, Zooey, this is what they gave directly to the McNumbNuts campaign. Who knows how much they have given to the RNC and the various 527s that are preparing their smear commercials at this very moment.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Ah yes, I hadn’t thought of it that way. Thanks, tom!
August 16th, 2008 at 10:55 amMcWars Says:
Bilbo, you’ve had plenty of great ideas for advertising over the past several weeks. I really wish that the Obama campaign would read your posts. The media would become too embarrassed to cite McCain’s poll numbers in that case. They couldn’t pass anything as a “dead heat.”
Why, thanks for the compliment. I regularly send my ideas for advertising to the DNC. I doubt they read them, but what the heck. It would be a kick to see an ad based on something I suggested. But, it would be quite likely that someone else thought of it because my ideas aren’t exactly unique.
My favorite is still the Pander Bear. I think that would be a big hit. Parents would love to have a Pander Bear for their kids and they might even read the accompanying brochure and get an idea of who McBush really is.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:56 amMcWars Says: See, unbelievable, now that makes me glad Clinton didn’t get the nomination. With facts like those you present, I don’t have to feel guilty.
I don’t think she’ll be VP either.
She started her political career as a Young Republican and switched party affliation after Bill decided he wanted to be Govenor of Arkansas.
I still value her in politics. She started the National Health care debate. Hopefully, she’ll be instrumental in continuing it.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:56 amPolls also cannot take into account which voters will be turned away at the voting booth for lack of proper ID or voter registration.
Nor can polls take into account the number of people unable to vote because of inadequate equipment in their precinct.
Nor can polls take into account the votes counted by Diebold.
The polls being reported are increasingly putting the race into the statistical margin of error. Past history indicates that when poll results are within the statistical margin of error, the Republican Candidate wins.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:57 amWitch1 Says:
My point this morning is simple…I have noticed the absence of sign’s and bumper sticker’s…I was out and about last Wed. and again yesterday morning and narry a yard sign or sticker for any one running in the election…
August 16th, 2008 at 10:48 am
I have noticed this as well, Great Lady. I think I’ve seen two other cars in town with Obama bumper stickers, and one yard with an Obama sign, but this is Idaho so that wouldn’t be unusual.
What is unusual is that I haven’t seen ANY McCain bumper stickers or yard signs. None.
People may be staying home in droves this election day, which will make it way easier to steal the election AGAIN.
P, B & J, my dear lady.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:01 amBilbo Hussein Baggins Says: The pollsters, like the MSM, have an economic advantage in keeping this looking like it is close. If it looked like a landslide, no one would need a poll a week to see what is going on and the polling outfits would lose money.
Ultimately, though, I think they may be helping Democrats with this strategy. If the Dems feel like they might lose if they don’t vote, then they will be prompted to vote and encourage others to vote.
The only concern I have, because I am certain McCain will not be elected, is voting fraud or some other political stunt like Bush pulled in 2000. I simply don’t trust the folks running the system to be fair and unbiased.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:02 amFederal government spending, even over state spending, has been keeping our economy out of the doldrums in its entirety. That is, providing the salaries, research dollars, many forms of aid, etc. on a guaranteed basis. The private forces tell you sometimes they’ll deliver, other times they won’t. Returning revenues to the corporations will hypothetically create jobs. Hypothetically, as in voluntarily. Sure, they can create jobs, but how long would those jobs last? Surely, a job created by the federal government, or otherwise funded by the federal government, is bound to be a secure, lasting job.
Middle class America–and those looking to achieve the American dream–should listen to those republicans talk about cutting the size, scope of government blahblah, and note their insistence that it’s a good thing. Then read the preceding paragraph of this post and cringe. Do research on your candidate, America! Vote for the poor and middle class, no matter how far up the income bracket you are. You’re benefiting yourself more than you’re led to believe!
August 16th, 2008 at 11:02 amWould only allowing use of public funds curtail the influence or would it just make it more opaque? I don’t think you could ever totally rid the political influence of money, but restricting and regulating spending would be a start. Free speech is great if you can afford it. As others have said, I’d like to whip up a quick counter to bogus campain ads that prey on the ignorant, but that speech isn’t so free.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:04 amWe all know the reason why mcchimpy is receiving more money from big companies.
It’s the masses blood, sweat, tears and dreams, that keep the US going. It’s people, the masses, who protect and love their US. It’s only right that the masses control themselves via the Constitution.
It shouldn’t be a loophole in this document that allows traitors like chimpy to destroy its righteous purpose.
It shouldn’t be a loophole where it’s ok for congress to pass on investigating wrongdoings.
What is the purpose of a Constitution if it can be broken and twisted?
The Constitution only works for honest people.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:04 amMcWars: I have to ask, was President Eisenhower obsessed with tax cuts? We had what, a 90% tax rate on the richest back then? I think it goes without mention that economic growth was quite explosive for the middle class during that period.
Ah yes, that was a whole different Republican Party back then. The National Debt was 71% of the GDP (it was 120% in 1946 because of the cost of Total War) and the debt was knocked down to 56% when he left office.
Even Carter’s term dropped it from 36% to 32% and then guess what happened? Ronnie/Bush41 took it up to 64 % and then Clinton dropped it down to 58%
Now its at 70% and still rising.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:10 amMcWars Says: Vote for the poor and middle class, no matter how far up the income bracket you are. You’re benefiting yourself more than you’re led to believe!
It never ceases to amaze me how many middle class Americans defend these corporate pigs.
Like those at the top will willingly allow them to share in their profits. Like those att the top want the competition. Like those at the top respect them anymore than those of us who are anti-corporate-personhood.
I think these people, who vote against their own interests, really have some false sense of belief that they too can one day become one of the wealthies Americans.
The ‘logic’ portion of our brain really needs to evolve more.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:10 am“A rising tide lifts all boats”
True then, true now.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:15 amIf hill and bill don’t muck up the dem convention I don’t see this buffoon winning a damn thing.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:15 amAmong the same 100 individuals, the vast majority of whom were in their current positions in 2004, Kerry raised nearly three-quarters of what Bush did. Kerry brought in $74,500 from the business leaders, while Bush raised $103,200. The difference between the Democratic and Republican candidates this election is more clear-cut, with McCain’s 10-to-1 advantage over Obama.
Giving lie to the disingenuous yet persistent meme that the Republican Party represents American values and that John McCain is a “maverick” who’ll fight for us.
Since reconstruction, Republicans have represented the wealthy minority over working Americans using lies and disinformation to get their way. Clearly corporate America understands this as evidenced by their campaign donations and it’s time the rest of the country figured it out as well.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
August 16th, 2008 at 11:31 amBack at ya Lady Z..Another scorcher here today.The Bear woke me up at 4:30 and am ready for a nap already.LOL…Good to read you here…I miss Idaho and Montana more each passing year….If I ever get otta here ( word’s to a song) gonna head that way…
Unbelievable, I use to think that way about people voting against their own self intrests also, not so much now…I see a public that is scared, worn out, weary and getting poorer by the minute, afraid if they don’t vote for big business they won’t have any job’s, food or anything but an empty basket to push around like the bag ladie’s and day laborer’s.
I talk to fishermen and women that are fishing off the dock more than ever instead of renting a boat because of the diffrence in cost. 20 doller’s is a lot more than 2 and this year it is making the diffrence…Odly enough this tiny resort hasen’t lost any revenue by not renting as many boat’s, instead we have done better business because of the huge increase of people fishing off the dock…Our tiny revenue has jumped by twice last year’s because entire famalie’s are fishing together instead of going out of town for recreation…(gas prices made them stay local)
Another thing that has become painfully clear are the amount of people coming here every week looking for a spot to rent…Some in motly old trailer’s like the one’s a couple of week’s ago and many in van’s or pickup’s..
BTW my neighbor that went to Nevada to find work called, he is tenting with 4 other people in the desert and doing day labor when he can…One of my local’s here is also doing day labor work when he can…It’s not getting better yet…I hope it will soon, winter’s on the way…..P. B. & J
August 16th, 2008 at 11:39 amWell, this is interesting. While the Gallup does its periodic undulation (McCain and Obama are now tied at 44%), the site also breaks down particulars.
For example:
Candidate Support by “Red,” “Purple,” and “Blue” States
Aug 4-10 (last week) Obama McCain
Red states 40 (41) 49 (48)
battleground/purple states 47 (46) 41 (42)
Blue states 54 (49) 35 (39)
and the fascinating
Candidate Support by Region
Aug 4-10 (last week) Obama McCain
August 16th, 2008 at 11:41 amEast 51 (46) 38 (41)
Midwest 50 (46) 38 (42)
South 40 (42) 50 (48)
West 50 (47) 40 (42)
From Center for American Progress a report on Bushonomics that lays out nicely what America has had to endure these last seven and a half years.
Link to report here
Excerpt:
In total, the top 10 percent of families accounted for 95.3 percent of the nation’s income growth between 2002 and 2006, leaving the other 133 million families in America to divide up the remaining 4.7 percent of the nation’s income growth. The average real income for families in the bottom 90 percent of households increased by about $300 to a little less than $30,700. Other data suggests, however, that all of that increase went to families in the 80th to 90th percentiles, and that the vast majority of households experienced declining incomes during the Bush expansion.
“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” – Thomas Jefferson
August 16th, 2008 at 11:44 amunbelievable: “I think these people…really have some false sense of belief that they too can one day become one of the wealthiest Americans.”
Yup. Lip service is given to “We the People” when in fact it has long been the individual that has been lauded–the pioneer, the cowboy, the mom-and-pop store business owner.
In fact the US was first colonized as a business venture, not as a haven from autocracy and plutocracy or from religious persecution (the Puritans were kicked out of Europe for being insufferable religious extremists.
The cowboys are imagined as rugged individualists, but the majority worked for cattle barons–i.e. big business (and incidentally a large number of them were Mexicans, the “vaqueros”, not pale-faced “Chuck Waggoner” types).
Railroads were the next big business that worked with the cattle barons to deliver the meat to market. Then there was grain and cotton and wood also. Then it was oil and then it was mass manufacturing. And so it went and so it goes.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:44 amTop CEOs Give 10 Times More To McCain Than Obama; McCain Promises Huge Tax Breaks For Them In Return
These CEO’s must not be too politically adept, if they think McCain will be able to push such tax policies through a newly-empowered congress. The newbies will be wanting to flex political muscle, and not for the cause of corporate tax breaks.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:48 am5th Estate Says:
“Help, help! I’m being repressed! Did you see that?! You saw that didn’t you…”
August 16th, 2008 at 10:42 am
And if things don’t change soon, it won’t be long before we’re all shouting “Come and see the violence inherent in the system!”
August 16th, 2008 at 11:59 amSome of the voters for mccain are the small business owners who already are paying a heavy share of taxes. Big Corps have a staff of attorneys delaying their taxes five years and more, but as usual the small company, trying to pay a living wage to its employees are the ones stuck and they feel mccain will help them more than Obama.
I understand their frustration but anyone winning will have to revamp the tax obligations with the current deficit.
As for the writer who mentioned lack of employment in LasVegas a friend who is Operations Mgr for Neiman-Marcus, Las Vegas sales have never been better. So as usual the rich are getting richer and the middleclass are paying.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:59 amRepublican economics does seem to be acceptable to most people based on ’someday that could be me’, and yet most people are closer to someday having to choose between food and fuel. It’s funny that in that case it’s, ‘expecting the best and not even thinking about the worst’. Just like the myth of moral superiority, why does the myth of republican fiscal responsibility persist?
August 16th, 2008 at 12:00 pmAnd I am sure they give 10 times the money to the prostitutes that “service” them than to their churches.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:03 pmJane – why do you think we have EIC ? This keeps the poor from raging in the streets. It also keeps a handy group of people to staff the fast food, low paying jobs. Should I mention it curbs motivation to better yourself as well?
What is already happening is a two layer society, cash, barter and tax paying. People have cash only incomes or incomes that can’t be traced. And I don’t blame them one bit, when I see the cheaters like Ken Lay’s wife get off scott free and the people who worked years lose their pensions and stocks.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:04 pmBob – you are so right…new republicans are the ones just coming up the money ladder and look down on those still fighting to climb. Like it or not Democrats are associated with the working man and Republicans with monied. Of course the “poor” working man, who is in a trade is pulling down as much or more than the stiff in the white shirt.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:06 pmOf course, if the self-proclaimed “liberal/progressive” blogospere actually stood for anything, the mega-forums would organize a boycott of said corporations.
The solution to these problems is obvious, but I guess some are much more interested in promoting their Websites (and themselves) than taking meaningful action.
Bloggin’ about each and every outrage, day in day out, and not being willing to initiate any meaningful action is just another version of atrio’s 101st Keyboarding Brigade.
There was a time when being liberal/progressive meant you were willing to do something about the injustices covered here daily.
Now it is acceptable to just pound on keyboards creating bits and bytes in cyberspace.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:08 pmThere was a time when being liberal/progressive meant you were willing to do something about the injustices covered here daily.
Now it is acceptable to just pound on keyboards creating bits and bytes in cyberspace.
Being liberal also means staying informed. What have you got against that?
August 16th, 2008 at 12:12 pmBob – Perhaps those people writing are doing something in their own way and reporting outrages at the same time. I for one am thankful being able to catch up with the outrages in the short free time I have each week.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:13 pmSo very many people are working longer and harder and just are too whipped to keep up and try to fight back.
What really boggles my mind is the millions of idiots whose wages are stagnant (if they have a job at all), who are losing their homes, who do not have health insurance, who are paying more for gas, food and everything else, and whose lives generally have gotten worse in every way under Bush will dutifully vote against their own self interest because gay men want to marry and other idiotic issues that the federal governnment really doesn’t control. The stupidity of much of the US electorate is truly breath-taking.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:15 pmThe stupidity of much of the US electorate is truly breath-taking.
The Television Generation. They’ve been fed nothing but mass/niche marketing their whole lives, so it’s not too surprising. Little of it touches them personally, so it’s just another TV show; scripted, timed, with protagonists, and a climax.
The Iraq war is like a TV series, to them. Some episodes are upbeat; others, gritty, and realistic.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:22 pmThe GOA report stated 72% foreign owned business and 57% American owned business’s haven’t paid from 1998 – 2005. But the report didn’t name names. Why not, doesn’t the average taxpayer have a right to know who they are supporting?
August 16th, 2008 at 12:28 pmNot to single anyone out, but is there a self interest that is not your own or one’s own interest that’s not part of your self? Kinda like a ‘complete stop’?
August 16th, 2008 at 12:30 pmYou make a lot of assumptions about what commenters here do with their time when they’re not commenting here, Joe.
Who says that all we do is “just pound on keyboards creating bits and bytes in cyberspace”? What do you know of any of us here and how active we are in our communities?
August 16th, 2008 at 12:30 pmIt always amazes me that educated people will listen to someone because that person stands in the pulpit each Sunday. And just why is a tax free Church allowed to influence politics ? Politics have nothing to do with religion or shouldn’t.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:33 pmThese guys, probably, know to which side the butter should be applied.
They wouldn’t risk pissing of Obama like that if they weren’t damn sure he posed no REAL danger of 1) being elected or 2) changing anything.
FOLLOW THE MONEY (”Adsequias Aes” as Cicero might have said) is still as good a rule today as it was 40 years ago when the first of this rancid gang of thugs took over.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:40 pmSomeone please explain how their can be 58 Billion unpaid in payroll taxes ? When I did a payroll albeit years ago, a check was cut for the payroll taxes immediately, required to be deposited within 5 days. It has to be with the loss of jobs at the IRS not enough people to catch the cheaters.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:42 pmThe middle class has endured 8 years watching the rich get richer, the economy getting weaker. With the gas prices skyrocketing thanks to the idiot and his criminal failed war, that same dollar we so hard work for buys less and less as time goes by. Obviously 8years is not enough for the ‘HAVEMORES’, they want another 4 years. They don’t care about this country and what it once stood for, all they care about is having more. That’s why we still have the incompetent king of failure idiot at the helm. The idiot’s imperial presidency has devoured the Constitution, taking away our civil liberties. Being actively liberal and progressive could very easily land you in jail, in addition to being tasered, beaten up, and tortured.
As a nation we currently stand so divided and confused thanks to the idiot and his disastrous failed 8 year tenure. I’ve come to realize that the so called ‘american dream’ is an illusion. Like Michael Jackson’s face : FAKE!
August 16th, 2008 at 12:42 pmbarfly Says:
There was a time when being liberal/progressive meant you were willing to do something about the injustices covered here daily.
Now it is acceptable to just pound on keyboards creating bits and bytes in cyberspace.
Just outta curiousity, when was the last time you were tear-gassed? Me? ‘72…Got busted and almost stabbed by the National Guard in May, ‘70. Got trampled by Chicago Mounted pigs in ‘68 (almost exactly 40 years ago).
The thing about mass-mediated propaganda is that you don’t actually hafta kill a lot of folks to make a point. Just a few will do it, if you keep showing it over and over…
August 16th, 2008 at 12:47 pmObama’s presidency will see a gradual, if not immediate, reversal of the benefits enjoyed today by the fat cats.
But that doesn’t stop the fat cats from purring around McCain.
The favors bestowed upon the corporations in the past decade are facing an end – certainly their people would donate to McCain in the hope of forestalling their demise.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:48 pmThe ONLY people who have benefitted under the reign of the boy-king and his minions are those making hundreds of thousands of dollars (and more) each year. Greed and selfishness lead them – the same as Bush&Co.
@ 72, Marie says: Obama’s presidency will see a gradual, if not immediate, reversal of the benefits enjoyed today by the fat cats.
But that doesn’t stop the fat cats from purring around McCain…
I want some of what Marie’s smoking…Alls I got’s some ol’ mexican border bud. Marie’s got the KRONIC!!!
Without an inviolable 60 seats in the Senate–which is as likely as that I should start shitting $100 bills–and a totally compliant–GOP-compliant–House, nothing that damages or interferes with the CorpoRat interests will get into law. The Dims might, if they wanted to expend sufficient political capital on it, marginally slow the INCREASES in federal largesse to the country’s foremost CorpoRat sponsors. Might, I say. There is absolutely no inclination in Obama’s politics in the past to restrain CorpoRat metastasis…
August 16th, 2008 at 12:59 pmEveryone is hoping Obama can stop the runaway train of dishonesty in this country. But it has to start at the home base as well. Children are taught to threaten lawsuits if a teacher disciplines, everyone is looking to blame someone else when a problem arises instead of being accountable themselves. America has lost it’s moral compass and no one cares.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:15 pmObama has corporate ‘BIG MONEY’ wrapped all around him too! Juat another ‘fake’ messiah!
August 16th, 2008 at 1:40 pmtokin librul Says:
So you think Obama will be just like Clinton?
Clinton taxed the corporations, how do you think he managed a surplus….business thrived.
Obama will do the same-mccain will tax you.
Someones taxes are going up no matter what they say. Do you want it to be you or do you think the corporations should pay thier fair share for what they enjoy for a change?
Most corporations pay $0 taxes
August 16th, 2008 at 1:41 pmJust outta curiousity, when was the last time you were tear-gassed?
I didn’t post the text that you link to my name, tokin’.
And the last time I was tear gassed was when I worked for a fumigator, back in the ’80’s.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:42 pmI’m tired of the “Obama is just like mccain” bullshit. Quit trying to make them look like they are the same. They are not.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:43 pmWithout an inviolable 60 seats in the Senate–which is as likely as that I should start shitting $100 bills–and a totally compliant–GOP-compliant–House, nothing that damages or interferes with the CorpoRat interests will get into law.
Can I borrow a few of those hundreds? ‘Cause we will be winning 60 seats in November.
Wanna bet?
August 16th, 2008 at 1:44 pmIf you guys want to just give up and go lay down and die then go ahead. I am tired of the whining. Be a part of the solution of you are by definition a part of the problem.
Democrats are not the same as republicans so get over yourselves.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:47 pmOr vote for Nader, or Barr, but quit telling us that McCain and Obama are both politicians.
We already know that.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:50 pmNo da, it’s a dream, something to aspire to and we have been going the wrong way to make that happen for most Americans. You want to give up and just hand it over to the right just because you are discouraged?
There are some good people in the Democratic party, if we can give them the hammer, things will change. The alternative is more of what you are seeing now.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:52 pmIf you are looking for a messiah, then go to church. I am looking for good managers of the US economy, domesic and forign policy. Democrats have always been better at running government than republicans. That has not changed.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:55 pmI usually find that people that brag about things like this were no where near the action. Just like brother vets that wear it on thier sleeve. You are still just an American and that should be enough…..if you have to have a badge then you have other problems to deal with.
Many of us here have been active since the 60’s in every progessive movement. We have been hurt and arrested. It’s not important now to talk about it. We have new challenges and we are older and our methods are different but we are still active so get off your high horse and get back in the game instead of trying to destroy our efforts.
If you don’t have anything constructive to offer, don’t say anything. You are not helping us change the way things are in America.
August 16th, 2008 at 2:00 pmI am incensed that you guys would at this time of potential change take pot shots at our efforts. If you have a legitimate and viable option, offer it, but do not undermine our efforts or you are on thier side as far as I am concerned.
August 16th, 2008 at 2:05 pmKane E Schneider: “And if things don’t change soon, it won’t be long before we’re all shouting “Come and see the violence inherent in the system!”
I was AFK, but thanks for reminding me of that brilliant conclusion. ROFL! Many thanks! :)
August 16th, 2008 at 2:10 pmCan I borrow a few of those hundreds? ‘Cause we will be winning 60 seats in November.
Wanna bet?
August 16th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
you need 60 SOLID seats.
Baucus? nah
Carper? nah
Lincoln? nah
The Nelsons? nah, nah
Landrieu? nah
Loserman? nah
the Dims need 64 just to compensate for the blue- and bushdogs. I’ll take that bet…there’s no way the CorpoRats will lose/concede de facto control of the Senate…
August 16th, 2008 at 2:21 pmIf you have a legitimate and viable option, offer it, but do not undermine our efforts or you are on thier side as far as I am concerned.
Politics is evolutional, and some are not yet able to evolve past the cynicism they still feel from the Bush years – which have yet to end.
My cynicism runs deep – but we have a chance to restore some semblance of respectability to both the concept of governance and to the country’s image. It’s too soon to be throwing our collective hands up in despair and rage. Give the guy a chance. We haven’t even gotten to the convention, and already some are obsessing over every freakin’ nuance.
August 16th, 2008 at 2:22 pmyou need 60 SOLID seats.
Baucus? nah
Carper? nah
Lincoln? nah
The Nelsons? nah, nah
Landrieu? nah
Loserman? nah
I’m talking absolute numbers, and you’re quibbling over how each might vote (or has voted) on specific issues?
That is more a result of political calculation, than political outlook. Each can be pressured to vote the democratic party’s wishes, on specific issues, if their own political future is imperiled, because they are excluded from bringing home the pork.
LBJ was a nasty political infighter, but he knew how to play this legislative game extremely well.
August 16th, 2008 at 2:35 pmJust a short dreadful reminder, 105 dem’s in the house, including palosi voted for FISA along with the reich…68 dem’s in the Senate including Obama voted for FISA along with the reich..How many do you really think you need now to change the tide..Just pointing out a huge fact….Blessings, we realy need them
August 16th, 2008 at 2:42 pmHistorical job Growth:
Roosevelt +4.9%
Truman +2.5%
Eisenhower +0.9
Kennedy +2.3%
Johnson +3.8%
Nixon +2.2%
Ford +1.1%
Carter +3.1%
Reagan +2.1%
Bush I +0.6%
Clinton +2.4%
Bush II +0.5%
Why are things better for the average guy under a Democrat than a Republican?
August 16th, 2008 at 3:03 pmWitch1 Says:
And you just want to throw them all out and vote in someone who what “doesn’t have a chance to get elected this cycle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Your pipe dream will sink us again just as it has in the past.
Find a viable candidate, one that can get votes and maybe you will get some support. It aint going to happen this time around and I refuse to let you destroy our chances to change who is in power.
You insist it will be the same as the republicans, I insist that you are being foolish to belive and propagate that misconception.
August 16th, 2008 at 3:13 pmWell they use to be Marie, now we can’t be sure when we can’t be sure one person is a dem or not based on their speeche’s and vote’s…Since many dem’s of today are voting with the reich how doe’s it make them a dem.?..Just saying….Blessings
August 16th, 2008 at 3:14 pmPeople are more cynical now than they were in 2000 for obvious reasons but they were cynical then too and tried to say the same thing: The democrats are just like the republicans and it is just not true.
They cost us before and if they keep it up they will cost us again. Get on board and help us change things rather than scoffing at our efforts and in your rage…supporting the wrong side.
August 16th, 2008 at 3:16 pmWitch1 Says:
You ignore the obvious to make your point. Marie makes a valid point, one with which you cannot argue. You want to make one political vote which we all thought was wrong to make the case that all dems are bad and just like the republicans…..I’m not buying into that because it’s not true.
Love ya witch but you are not helping anyone, not yourself or your principals or our country by having nothing but negative assessment of people who will change the direction we are heading.
You are by proxy acting on behalf of the republicans. Didn’t you learn anything?
August 16th, 2008 at 3:21 pmI just hope you guys are man enough to come here and admit you were wrong when the democrats do take back power and things do begin to change for the better.
I have a feeling though that you have just taken the bait that nothing can ever be done and this is just the way it is. Guess who’s idea it is for you to feel that way?
August 16th, 2008 at 3:31 pmWell Fred, I have a great opportunety to vote non front runner or third party and helping you all out long after I am gone.Here’s why, I live in a very blue state that will go blue no matter what I do but some time down the road a third party will get recognized because of my little vote and since there are no front runner’s with the ball’s to help keep our constitution in tact even with a token vote I’m going with someone who believe’s the constitution is the law of the land and should be kept…
You and I have gone down this road many time’s, I refuse to make a right turn…I will not now or ever vote for someone who could of voted against FISA, knowing it is against the constitution and still voted for it, just like palosi….
You don’t need to lecture me any more, in fact if everyone would do what I am doing we could fix this huge mess this election…With Nadar, Mckenna or even Kucinich as a write in we would change it on a dime….Blessings
August 16th, 2008 at 3:47 pmTop CEOs Give 10 Times More To McCain Than Obama; McCain Promises Huge Tax Breaks For Them In Return»
And yet, Ovama is doing just fine with millions, not just 10, contributing to his campaign.
August 16th, 2008 at 4:44 pmPeople who believe that the repugs and the dems are interchangeable are obvious repugs.
I’m not 100% comfortable with any party, but the dems come damn close to my beliefs.
August 16th, 2008 at 6:55 pmMost of these CEOs are morally bankrupt. Many of them are psychopaths.
August 16th, 2008 at 7:35 pm# 99 so I guess you are with the popular mindset of most dem’s here that is the constitution is just a G.D piece of paper and it’s alright to vote one more in while you want all but that one that voted for FISA to be booted out.? That’s what most here were saying the day of the vote.. Boot them out….But give Obama a free pass..Your doing just what the reich do, you want change,? Well you say you do but in realety you are so scared you won’t make the change your self./ Every one has been saying for over 7 year’s, now is not the time…Well there is alway’s the right time to do what is right to do…
Fred made a comment in a post if any one of us that don’t agree have the ball’s when Obama win’s and prove’s us wrong we should apolagize…Well I own a cute little pair of brass one’s and I can tell you little if anything is going to change when he get’s in….He has already shown you by speeche’s and vote’s exactly what he will and won’t do…Flowery speeche’s and big turn out’s will not change what he and the dem’s did over FISA. and many other thing’s…With that he lost my vote and 5 of my buddie’s..When, if ever he prove’s he can take that back, reverse it and accomplish more than pumping up an audiance with fancy word’s that day I will apolagoze and not one day before..
I’m sorry I think you all have gone totaly mad..I’m for polatician’s holding their oath of office to protect the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic…
Your plan is to vote one more enabeler into office..When are you all going to get it.? It’s not me that’s being worked it’s you….Jeebos, I wasent for Hillery but atleast she didn’t vote against the constitution and neither did my representative’s….
It would appear all my 46 year’s of being a bleeding heart libral and devoted dem were for nothing…There seem’s to be a total disconnect with our constitutionm, the law and people willing to say …ENOUGH…….BLESSINGS
August 16th, 2008 at 7:42 pmWhatever is what I say witch
August 16th, 2008 at 8:48 pmpeace
?
HAHAHAHA
August 16th, 2008 at 9:31 pm101
The US Constitution is broke because chimpy striped the gusto out of it. The Constitution won’t ever be the growing commonsense document for the people it once was. The scars are permanent and deep. Your Constitution has keiloes all over it.
Besides, the very foundation of the US Constitution is racism.
Pertaining to FISA: How are we suppose to catch the crooks if we don’t have the same leverage as the crooks? We must use their crimes to prove they have broken the law and return our rights one by one.
Sen. Obama is very intelligent and cares deeply about the state of the US. I trust him way more than mcchimpy.
Are you a hill supporter?
August 16th, 2008 at 9:46 pmNo I am not a Hill supporter, I was and am a Kucinich fan but most of all I am for the constitution and rule of law…..Obama is intelligent alright and you can bet your sweet bippie he will want all the reich winger’s broken law’s including FISA in tact for his use….With all the blue dog’s and rep’s in now nothing will change with the exception people like me and the peace bunch will probably be in jail, never to be heard from again..
So now you’r theory is use a thief to catch one,,Ignorance is all over that one and I’m sure glad I dumped all but a chosen few good dem’s, that is after all, all that remain.. ……Blessings
August 16th, 2008 at 10:24 pmWitch1 Says:
two words for those nader and other haters of the democratic party: Supreme Court. That should be enough to wake you up to the realities of what are at stake right now.
Witch, your disparaging of Obama is unjustified. You just want want everything you want and nothing less will do. I think your support for Nader is a little unsettling and it makes your case seem weak. Actually you have no case except quit, go home and die.
Americans are not going to support you in a 3rd party run this year.
I understand that you think you are standing up for what is right but you are wrong on this one.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:05 amYah, sure, you betchya, Fred…You think it’s all about me. well it’s not and if the country would get off their dead asses and do what we did in the 60’s with the help of the internet we could change this in a heart beat..We could get a real dem in office and end the war’s…No I don’t plan on staying home, or quiting but the dieing part is close at hand…I will be lucky to make it to Nov, to vote with my warn out heart…
I don’t have a grudge against Obama for christ sake, I worked my ass off for some one like him to have this oportunety for many year’s…Equal right’s, civil right’s, women’s right’s…And I am not a Dem hater, I am merely pointing out a huge herd of jackasses in this administration that are not dem’s at all but rep. block and tackeler’s….105 in the house and 68 in the senate to be spacific and those are just the one’s that showed their true color’s when they betrayed us on the FISA bill..I don’t hate any one, it’s not a witch’s way..I do however think people should be held accountable for their action’s and I also think any one I vote for should atleast hold their oath of office which is to protect the constitution from all enemy’s foreign and domestic…I expect them to do what I would do, defend my country and the law’s….
What I don’t get is the crazy attitude the left and right both have that you must follow party line and vote for these flawed people that are showing you before they are in office just what they intend to do….Why on earth do you want to vote for some one who knew they had enough vote’s and still went against we the people and the constitution and voted for FISA.? Why did everyone here post huge post’s they wanted everyone removed from office that voted for FISA and then jump on the band wagon to give Obama a free ride to put him in office.? Where is the clear thinking on that.?.Where was the outrage.? I worked my finger’s to the bone sending out email’s to every one…Oh and BTW I was on Obama’s site and blogged along with thousand’s of other’s localy to do the right thing…Well, I did get good result’s from my local representative’s but not from Obama…Finelly I dropped him and posted my reason’s for leaving, his vote on FISA..
Hell, I’m not mad at any one’s choice but I sure do question the thinking…By everyone’s thinking here after someone breake’s into my house,steal’s everything, is caught by the police, out on bail, come’s back to my house to rob me again I should give them the key’s.? That’s what it look’s like to me and that’s what you are planning, right?..Well I’m not buying it and I won’t be a part of giving them the key’s either…But you go right ahead and follow the group think..
Be mad, take it personal if that pleases you, I’m not the problem or the “bad guy” and it will not be my one vote that causes a loss it will be Obama himself that may do that or the huge reich winged, backed by pretend dem’s that will accomplish it….The country is a lot worse off than even you realize and only a huge shift will bring it back…..It’s a done deal Fred, your gonna get what you are voting for another enabeler…..So stop being mad at leftie’s like me that say enough already….After 46 year’s of follow the leader I want people that follow the rule of law and the constitution…
In closing I must say in all my life I never voted for someone who went against the country, constitution and her people as far as I knew and I’m not doing it now, but you go ahead and do as you choose..Blessings
August 17th, 2008 at 11:26 amWitch, you’re not the only one dying. I have enphysema and have been in the hospital 3 time this year….how much time ya reckon I got left. That’s not an agrument for anything.
You say:
They have all done and they will all do things we don’t agree with. Hell, Carter caused part of his own problem by not getting rid of the Nixonites that were left over from the nixon admin and they stabbed him in the back. He thought he could trust them because they were Americans, they are not.
You knew that and you still voted for Jimmy so why is this so much different?
No politician is going to do everything you want them to do and many times the compomises necessary to get the things they are working for will cost us all in different areas, that’s politics.
The American people are not going to go to the streets. This will have to be worked out through the system that exists.
You have given up so why are you even talking about it. Why does it even matter to you any more. You say it’s over no matter who gets elected and you know that either Obama or mccain will be elected so what is your point?
I don’t believe that Obama is an enabler. I think he is a politician and I look forward to real change when he gets elected.
August 17th, 2008 at 11:52 amFred, I was not making an argument about dieing, just mentioning a fact..Neither of us have much time..I will not waste my possible last vote on some one who betrayed us, the constitution and country..I read and acknoledge everything you have written…With all due respect my brain will not wrap around the theory of giving the key’s to another enabeler..It’s like giving my car key’s to a drunk teen.
By his own speech Obama has said he think’s it’s counter productive to impeach and only offered up a possible investigation of the bush administration..
By his own speech the day after Israel’s saber ratteling on Iran and bush’ backing Obama said “”I back Israel 100%”.
I watched on C-Span the entire vote of FISA, I counted the vote’s as they went down and late after it was obvious it would pass he voted with 67 other’s and betrayed the constitution, people and country…Not even a token vote for his supporter’s…Shit..In my day and now you dance with them that brought you..One surely doesn’t hitch a ride with some one else and sell out your date.
“No polatician is going to do everything you want”..? What the hell is that Fred.? All I expect is they keep their oath of office, follow the law and protect the constitution, people and country…I’m sorry but I think you need to direct your comment’s to Obama as I did instead of me…I haven’t broken the law, oath of office or the constitution and with my vote I still won’t….
Yep! I voted for Carter both time’s..Truth is he was to good for the country at the time…I voted for Clinton both time’s also…Neither were saint’s but to my knoledge neither voted against the constitution…..
Have a good day Fred…..I send you Blessings
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