McCain Jokes About His Definition Of The Rich: ‘How About $5 Million?’
McCain Jokes About His Definition Of The Rich: ‘How About $5 Million?’
Last night, during his Saddleback Church presidential forum, Pastor Rick Warren asked both Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) and Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) to “define rich.” With regard to tax brackets, “where do you move from middle class to rich?” Warren asked. Obama said, “if you are making $150,000 a year or less, as a family, then you’re middle class.”
McCain, however, dismissed Warren’s question, asking in jest, “How about $5 million?”
WARREN: Everybody talks about, you know, taxing the rich, but not the poor, the middle class. At what point, give me a number, give me a specific number. Where do you move from middle class to rich? [...]
MCCAIN: How about $5 million? No, but seriously, I don’t think you can, I don’t think seriously that the point is I’m trying to make, seriously, and I’m sure that comment will be distorted but the point is…that we want to keep people’s taxes low, and increase revenues. … So, it doesn’t matter really what my definition of rich is because I don’t want to raise anybody’s taxes. I really don’t.
Watch it:
McCain is right — millionaires are rich. In fact, those making $5 million per year or more are wealthier than 99.99% of all Americans. All but the nation’s wealthiest five percent, have household incomes of less than $174,000 per year.
But while McCain now says “it doesn’t matter really what my definition of rich is,” in 2000, he criticized tax cuts proposed by then-presidential candidate George W. Bush because they would benefit the rich “at the expense of middle-class Americans.” McCain said that he believed Bush was targeting the wrong individuals:
I don’t think the governor’s tax cut is too big–it’s just misplaced. Sixty percent of the benefits from his tax cuts go to the wealthiest 10 percent of Americans–and that’s not the kind of tax relief that Americans need. … I don’t believe the wealthiest 10 percent of Americans should get 60 percent of the tax breaks. I think the lowest 10 percent should get the breaks.
McCain summarized his position at the time saying, “I’m not giving tax cuts for the rich.” Now McCain is proposing to do exactly that. McCain — who, by his own definition, is rich — would get a $300,000 tax break if his proposals were enacted. McCain would decrease middle-class Americans’ tax bills by just $319.
Transcript:
WARREN: Everybody talks about, you know, taxing the rich, but not the poor, the middle class. At what point, give me a number, give me a specific number. Where do you move from middle class to rich?
MCCAIN: Some of the richest people I’ve ever known in my life are the most unhappy. I think that Rich should be defined by a home, a good job, an education, and the ability to hand to our children a more prosperous and safer world than the one that we inherited. I don’t want to take any money from the Rich. I want everybody to get Rich. I don’t believe in class warfare or redistribution of the wealth but I can tell you, for example, there are small businessmen and women who are working 16 hours a day, seven days a week, that some people would classify as “rich.” My friends, want to raise their tax, want to raise their payroll taxes. Keep taxes low. Let’s give every family in America a $7,000 tax credit for every child they have. Let’s give them a $5,000 refundable tax credit to go out and get the health insurance of their choice. Let’s not have the government take over their health care system in America.
So i think if you’re just talking about income, how about $5 million. No, but seriously, I don’t think you can, I don’t think seriously that the point is I’m trying to make seriously and I’m sure that comment will be distorted but the point is, the point is, the point is that we want to keep people’s taxes low, and increase revenues, and my friend, it was not taxing that mattered in America in the last several years. It was spending. Spending got completely out of control. [...]
So it doesn’t matter really what my definition of rich is because i don’t want to raise anybody’s taxes. I really don’t. In fact, I want to give working Americans a better shot at having a better life.
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The LA Times sub-headline on the front page this morning indicates the Op-Ed page has moved to the front of the paper, as it lauded McCain.
Pfffft, gramps was on anecdote auto-pilot.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:34 pmGrampy McSame: we want to keep people’s taxes low, and increase revenues
Yeah, and I want to work less and make more money doing it.
I haven’t found a way to make that work yet, either.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:42 pmIn fact, I want to give working Americans a better shot at having a better life.
If that were indeed true , you’d tell every voting American that you are unfit for the office of the president and are undeserving of anyone’s vote………
August 17th, 2008 at 2:46 pmSo, it doesn’t matter really
There’s your “straight” talk.
It doesn’t matter what he says, he’ll just do whatever the hell feels right at that moment.
Mc-, uh Mc-, Mc-doesntmatternotgonnawinanyway.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:48 pmBut while McCain now says “it doesn’t matter really what my definition of rich is,” in 2000, he criticized tax cuts proposed by then-presidential candidate George W. Bush because they would benefit the rich “at the expense of middle-class Americans.”
Just one more example of how McSame of 2008 is not the same dude who got slimed by the Bush-Rove team in 2000.
Just out of curiosity… Bush pretty much got his tax cuts enacted, right?
So… how long do we have to wait before they result in this “robust” economy he’s been promising? I would have thought that eight years was enough time.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:49 pmMcCain: Some of the richest people I’ve ever known in my life are the most unhappy.
It only stands to reason we should lower their taxes.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:49 pmThe interviews last night demonstrated how fully McCain turns everything into combat of one sort or another.
He is a knee-jerk response person with little forethought.
BTW, the Corsi book – brought to the NYT best seller list by bulk purchases by conservative groups – Corsi has something to say about McCain too.
The guy who Dick Cheney’s aide, Mary Matalin, says is a great great great guy. So, it seems that in addition to spewing slime about Obama, he also accused the McCain campaign of having ties to Al Qaeda a few months ago. Nice. So now every time the media shows this guy, every time a Republican at the convention flashes a copy of the anti-Obama book, the media will be forced to mention, in all fairness, that the book’s author also says that McCain has Al Qaeda ties. Once again, the Republicans forget about that little thing called the Internets.
Wonder what Mary Matalin has to say about that?
August 17th, 2008 at 2:53 pmMcCain”I thought everyone was rich. Doesn’t everybody have a druggie bimbo wife with her own Gulfstream 5 that likes taking her clothes off in front of 50,000 bikers?”
August 17th, 2008 at 2:56 pm$5 million is McCain’s threshhold for wealth?
Obama should make an ad about that, juxtaposed with his own assertion that if you make less than $150 thousand, you get a tax cut – and if you make more than $250 that’s where the increase starts. By the time you get up to earning $5 mil/year, you’d be in a pretty high tax bracket.
As Obama said, “To whom much is given, much is expected.”
Jesus would not have been a republican.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:56 pmMCCAIN: Some of the richest people I’ve ever known in my life are the most unhappy.
Maybe you should ask them if they’d be a lot happier if they were poor , too , you stupid old bastard…………
August 17th, 2008 at 2:57 pmI thought McCain was going to voluntarily offer some kind of confession about his adulterous life (Cindy wasn’t the only one) but that lasted only for a second, as McCain simply made a generic statement about his failed first marriage.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:57 pmSomeone is going to have to ask him to expound on that.
That $319 cut in taxes won’t even make a dent in the cost of filling my home heating oil tank.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:01 pmMcCain is completely out of touch with working Americans. He doesn’t have a clue as to what it’s like to work hard and still stuggle in today’s economy. And just like Bush before him, he’s only interested in representing the wealthy while deluding himself that piss on, er, trickle down economics is good for everyone.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
August 17th, 2008 at 3:01 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Grampy McSame: we want to keep people’s taxes low, and increase revenues
Yeah, and I want to work less and make more money doing it.
I haven’t found a way to make that work yet, either.
When you find a way to make money and not work at all, please share =)
August 17th, 2008 at 3:02 pmmccain is really a lame candidate – probably one of the worst to be a major candidate nominee, and this is the best the repugs could do.
If the dems had any spine and could point to meaningful action in terms of change and holding the repugs and the monkey palace accountable, it would be a landslide.
Unfortunately, the polls (if they are accurate/honest) indicate the race is close – nearing a “toss up”.
When are the dems gonna realize that victory is there if they would only stand up for their rhetoric and start crackin’ some heads.
Dur chimpfuhrer is wildly unpopular, historically so, yet the dems have not taken meaningful action to distance themselves and demonstrate that they stand for meaningful change.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:07 pmMCCAIN: Some of the richest people I’ve ever known in my life are the most unhappy. I think that Rich should be defined by a home, a good job, an education, and the ability to hand to our children a more prosperous and safer world than the one that we inherited.
And you believe the above will be accomplished by invading/bombing everyone ?
“Prosperous and safer” are achieved through reducing everything to rubble ?
August 17th, 2008 at 3:07 pmLet’s examine the question, and it’s context.
WARREN: Everybody talks about, you know, taxing the rich, but not the poor, the middle class. At what point, give me a number, give me a specific number. Where do you move from middle class to rich?
This seems to imply that Warren is affronted because the national debate hasn’t included the cross-topic of taxes paid by the poor, and middle-class. And that impression is strengthened by his follow-up question, when he asks for a definition of rich. Warren is another of the prosperity evangelists, and this clearly political question was meant to blend his religious theme of prosperity-through-prayer with the politico-economic reality of disparate income levels.
This is dog-whistle theology, dressed up as political debate and presented in a clearly religious forum, to further blur the distinctions between what is and isn’t allowable in the Church/State debate.
And since the “church” is in wealth-centric Orange County, the attendees were sure to be a crowd who approved of Warren’s Rich and Righteous worldview.
An Obama and pony show.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:10 pmAnother Joe Says:
If the dems had any spine and could point to meaningful action in terms of change and holding the repugs and the monkey palace accountable, it would be a landslide.
Unfortunately, the polls (if they are accurate/honest) indicate the race is close – nearing a “toss up”.
And what about the dems congressional landslide? The polling on those races are pretty much unchanged, no?
What is your gloomy scenario for how McCain will run roughshod over an unassailable congressional majority of democrats?
August 17th, 2008 at 3:16 pmJohnny McTeleprompter voted for at least 3 of the 4 liberal justices he listed out last night at Saddleback Church:
Stephen Breyer…
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=103&session=2&vote=00242
Ruth Bader Ginsberg
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=103&session=1&vote=00232
David Souter…
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=101&session=2&vote=00259
Poor Johnny. He really wants people to believe everything he says, because it worked for George Bush.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:22 pmSome months, Cindy McCain spends over $700,000 on stuff she doesn’t need, so I can see why Johnny would throw out $5 million as the cut off between the rich and the poor!
August 17th, 2008 at 3:24 pmWhe you’re rolling in dough like this guy, $5 mill is chump change. Out of touch, rich F-head! Anyone in the so-called middle class that votes for him is rich in respect to stupidity.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:25 pmMcCain bombed this question on so many levels.
When asked for a definition, he offered something, then retracted. Note, the man in government for 30 years couldn’t refer to a basic Census Department operational definition.
Claiming rich people are unhappy dovetails with the well researched inability of extrinsic motivators to provide lasting joy. Yet, McCain’s economic plans are full of short term external motivators, tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy, tax credits for individuals for health insurance, etc.
But McCain did surge on qualifying his answer.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:32 pmMarie Says:
I thought McCain was going to voluntarily offer some kind of confession about his adulterous life (Cindy wasn’t the only one) but that lasted only for a second, as McCain simply made a generic statement about his failed first marriage.
Someone is going to have to ask him to expound on that.
and “pastor rick” had plenty of time to do that, too…
hmmm… can’t imagine WHY he didn’t…
… only ONE of so many items from last night that’ve go my ire…
trying to weigh the benefits of obama doing that “show”… i only hope he’s learned that YOU CAN’T TRUST THOSE GUYS!
NONE OF ‘EM.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:36 pmObama was actually a little generous when he suggested that a family income of $250,000 puts you in the top five percent.
In 2005, only the top 1.5 % made $250,000 annually.
I couldn’t find what percentage of the population made $5 million a year. Let’s say half a percent, to be generous to McSame.
So he’s saying that 99.5% of Americans are not “rich”. And this includes those making a mere $4.5 million per annum.
Out of touch much, Grampy?
August 17th, 2008 at 3:37 pmMCCAIN: (blah blah bullshit)… I think that Rich should be defined by a home, a good job, an education, and the ability to hand to our children a more prosperous and safer world than the one that we inherited.
Formerly know as: The Middle Class
August 17th, 2008 at 3:39 pmYou gotta give Grampy credit, however, for playing the “out of context” defense preemptively:
How about $5 million? No, but seriously, I don’t think you can, I don’t think seriously that the point is I’m trying to make, seriously, and I’m sure that comment will be distorted
It doesn’t NEED to be distorted, Grampy. It pretty much says it all, all by itself.
Well done.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:40 pm“McCain Jokes About His Definition Of The Rich: ‘How About $5 Million?’”
I watched the forum on CNN and I was waiting for McCain’s answer since he was brought and paid for by sugar mama Cindy and never really earned a dime of his so-called wealth [and not counting his checking account that Cindy set up for him].
“So, it doesn’t matter really what my definition of rich is because I don’t want to raise anybody’s taxes. I really don’t.”
You don’t raise anyone taxes in country where our deficit continues to be in red, more jobs lost, businesses are filing bankruptcy in droves, U.S. borrowed more money from foreign countries, large increase in foreclosed homes, and so on. Clearly, Grandpappy McSame needs more nap time.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:42 pmUnfortunately, the polls (if they are accurate/honest) indicate the race is close – nearing a “toss up”.
The polls also stated 1/3 of the Dems watch faux news…
Until polls are conducted in a manner in which ALL walks of life participate they mean nothing.
Who are these people polled that have a land line phone and are at home to answer it?
August 17th, 2008 at 3:47 pmWell, here’s some “straight talk.” There’s one word for McCain at this point, and it is “whore.”
August 17th, 2008 at 3:51 pmNice research, KayInMaine. That’s what I’m looking for.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:56 pmThe Dems have done a poor job defining “rich” in this country. A lot of people are under the assumption that a yearly salary of 250K or higher (maybe even 5 million dollars) is common in America which puts the Dems on the defensive when discussing taxes. They need to discuss the percentages more often. The media won’t do it because a lot of them will be affected by a tax increase.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:59 pm.
McOut-of-touch is a bit McOut-to-lunch…
… NO?
.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:05 pm______
Marie Says:
Jesus would not have been a republican.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
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Nor a democrat.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:06 pmIt’s all just a joke to McWar, happily a member of the ruling elite; born the son of a Navy Admiral, grandson of another Navy Admiral, like the Royal little Bush Two, John just drifted along, partying hard, studying little, caring less. Being a POW in Vietnam was his only hardship in life. After he got back home, he divorced the mother of his children and married into a multi-millionaire’s family.
He has been on the federal government weifare dole practically all of his life. Free health care for U.S. Representatives and U. S. Senators. He has sold his soul to the neo-con agenda and has become the complete war-monger for all seasons and for no reasons. Now he is in his dotage, with his demented mind producing absurd stupid comments on an almost daily basis.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:06 pmthe point is…that we want to keep people’s taxes low, and increase revenues
I’d really like to hear McCain explain how exactly he thinks revenues can be increased and taxes lowered, at the same time.
This is not trickle down economics anymore. It’s crackpot economics. Or simple demagoguery.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:07 pmkaty Says:
MCCAIN: (blah blah bullshit)… I think that Rich should be defined by a home, a good job, an education, and the ability to hand to our children a more prosperous and safer world than the one that we inherited.
Formerly know as: The Middle Class
August 17th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Folks, we have a winner!!
Well done, katy!
August 17th, 2008 at 4:22 pmupright left Says:
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Marie Says:
Jesus would not have been a republican.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
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Nor a democrat.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
But he was a liberal/progressive and not a cancervative…….
August 17th, 2008 at 4:27 pmI’ve never made more than $24K in my life, and I’m far richer than McCain will ever be.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:32 pmA little OT but concerns what McCain had to say last night. This morning, a caller on Washington Journal pointed out the uncanny resembleance of McCain’s “moving” POW story about the guard who drew a cross in the sand and a scene from the movie Ben Hur. It’s been about 20 years since I’ve seen that movie but wondered if any of you had seen or heard about this supposed co-inky-dink.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:41 pmAt least Obama gave a clean answer, and not a bad one at that. $150,000 is a very strong middle class salary when considering the price increases on the products, services, and fees that salary must cover.
It’s not to say that I feel sorry for those making $150,000 per anum. Odd as it seems, the person making $150,000 will probably find it easier to get a raise to cover the increased costs over the person making $25,000. The peasants who didunt make dem right chowces in life downt deserve nuh latitute.
Inflation galore, folks.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:41 pmZooey Says:
I’ve never made more than $24K in my life, and I’m far richer than McCain will ever be.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:32 pm Recommend (1000) | Report Abuse
August 17th, 2008 at 4:43 pmWayne, how to make money and not have to work?
Marry an heiress. Then you only have to satisfy your ego; she’ll take care of everything else.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:44 pmLooks like Thompson is McCain’s VP pick
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/17/15573/0072/141/569397
Hilarious that mcCain would pick him after he made this statement about him.
McCain, “I can still walk and chew my own food, Fred can’t even take a sh!t unless someone else massages his bowels.”
lmao
August 17th, 2008 at 4:52 pmMcCain has been born, raised and sustained on the taxpayers’ dollar as a Senator. He has never had a job, been unemployed, had to scramble for health care — even his first wife’s medical bills were handled by Ross Perot. Then the skirt-chasing sailor marries an heiress and he is set for the rest of his life.
He has no clue about the struggles of the middle class, much less the poor.
As for the movie, Ben Hur, does anyone know this for sure — my friend called me about it this morning. McCain embellished his earlier reports of POW religion with these added details which are unproveable.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:53 pmIs the Fred Thompson rumor true? I saw a developing headline at Raw Story and see a post aat Daily Kos. But is it true? Why would he announce now? And why the hell would it be Fred, the actor?
August 17th, 2008 at 4:55 pmIsn’t he nearly as old as McCain yet full of the same amount of hot air?
Found this link on the Huffington Post regarding the “cross in the dirt POW story. Can’t take credit. Posted by personal political.
http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/2008/08/mccains-faith-plagiarism.html
August 17th, 2008 at 4:56 pmThe Republican base in 2008 are the have mores who had more but want more, and the pander bear who wants to continue to represent them in the white house must cater to the spoiled brats. The republican base is now a fully fed, if not obese machine, more radical, more extreme than ever. John McCain must feed them their quadruple whopper on a daily basis if he wishes to be elected.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:57 pmcabinbagger
August 17th, 2008 at 4:57 pmThe statement applies to more politicians than McCain.
But McCain is the candidate this year — didn’t people say the same about Kerry? You bet they did – and worse.
McWars Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 4:32 pm Recommend (1000)
August 17th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
:-)
August 17th, 2008 at 4:58 pmMcCain said that some of the richest folks he knew were the most unhappy.
Is this some sort of projection and an admission that even though he is a rich elitist, that he is, inside, a bitter old man.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:00 pmhad enough – I agree, these polls are probably bogus – actually, fraudulent.
Given mmcains increasing support of the smirking chimp, it shouldn’t even be possible to misrepresent his support this way. And Obama is raising nearly twice as much money.
I am just saying that the dems should be able to crush a candidate like mccain – if it is this close (and I am not sure it is), then they have really screwed up.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:02 pmMapleStreet Says:
After the way the smirking chimp and kkkarl rove spanked and slandered him in 2000, he should be.
Funny thing is, it just seems to have made him more of a supporter – either there is a great deal of suppressed rage or he is the ultimate panderer.
Actually, both are probably true.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:05 pmcarpetmuncher
What we want to see, stupid troll, is more rich people (a) willing to pay their fair share of taxes, and (b) not keep themselves exclusive to Greewich, Connecticut and join the fight to lift all boats.
Neocons hate wealthy people (ex., Buffet, Edwards, and Kerry) who put thought into helping the poor, and putting faith into the power of government in order to do so.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:07 pmThanks for the link LauraTX, very interesting.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:12 pmMcCain is out there. Look at energy.
Bush and McCain would have you believe that we must drill to get control over the energy crisis facing this country. To the contrary, the facts demonstrate that the technology for America to achieve energy independence from the Middle East exists and is being used by hundreds of millions of people today. As I will show, if we Americans were using this technology today, we currently would be saving more than twice the amount of oil we import from the Middle East.
It is up to each of us to become more conversant with the facts around oil so we can rebut the false claims of Republican politicians. It is not enough to rely on one “guru” or another as a source of information, whether it be the Sierra Club, or for that matter Anne Korins or T. Boone Pickens.
Whether it be hybrids or wind power or whatever solution they offer, these gurus will frame the facts to point you towards their solution. I will show you the basic facts. You can draw your own conclusions.
Neither I nor any guru can predict how we can reduce our dependence on oil. I just know we are an industrious people. If we elect a leader who guides Americans to set our minds to the task, if we set our goals high, or at least not low, one way or another, America can do it.
Much more:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/17/142624/520/168/569362
August 17th, 2008 at 5:14 pmFor those of you who missed LauraTX post and link — here is the crux of it:
Check out this excerpt from “The Gulag Archipelago” by Alexander Solzhenitsyn:
Along with other prisoners, he worked in the fields day after day, in rain and sun, during summer and winter. His life appeared to be nothing more than backbreaking labor and slow starvation. The intense suffering reduced him to a state of despair… So he gave up.
Leaving his shovel on the ground, he slowly walked to a crude bench and sat down. He knew that at any moment a guard would order him to stand up, and when he failed to respond, the guard would beat him to death, probably with his own shovel. He had seen it happen to other prisoners.
As he waited…he looked up and saw a skinny old prisoner squat down beside him. The man said nothing. Instead, he used a stick to trace in the dirt the sign of the Cross. The man then got back up and returned to his work.
As Solzhenitsyn stared at the Cross drawn in the dirt his entire perspective changed…. he knew there was something greater than the evil he saw in the prison camp, something greater than the Soviet Union…Through the power of the Cross, anything was possible.
Hmm…POW story…silent meeting…the sign of a cross traced into the dirt in a show of Christian solidarity…the strength it gives to go on…Oh, but it gets better still, because it turns out McCain is a big fan of Alexander Solzhenitsyn, indeed McCain even wrote about Solzhenitsyn in an article, and even specifically mentioned “The Gulag Archipelago” in that very same article. And this would have been quite recent in his memory, since the article is from only two weeks earlier.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:16 pmMarie Says:
Is the Fred Thompson rumor true? I saw a developing headline at Raw Story and see a post aat Daily Kos. But is it true? Why would he announce now? And why the hell would it be Fred, the actor?
Isn’t he nearly as old as McCain yet full of the same amount of hot air?
The daily kos post was a snark post, funny as heck, I am still trying to find out if its all a joke or real. I am assuming it is a joke post right now.
Thompson is in his 80s, so is older than McCain.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:29 pmOT
Dog dies after traffic cop apathetic to owner’s pleas
August 17th, 2008 at 5:33 pmHow about just make those who OWE taxes PAY those taxes instead of illegally hiding it in foreign banks? Maybe, just possibly maybe, a new Obama administration will immediately beef up the IRS and crack down on high-income individuals and businesses, but I’m not holding my breath.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:34 pmTrixie Says:
A little OT but concerns what McCain had to say last night. This morning, a caller on Washington Journal pointed out the uncanny resembleance of McCain’s “moving” POW story about the guard who drew a cross in the sand and a scene from the movie Ben Hur. It’s been about 20 years since I’ve seen that movie but wondered if any of you had seen or heard about this supposed co-inky-dink.
Not Ben Hur, apparently, but it IS a story from Alexander Solzhenitsyn! Here’s the link:
http://thepoliticalcarnival.blogspot.com/2008/08/did-john-mccain-borrow-his-cross-in.html
But, then again, maybe that Vietcong guard was a great reader and fan of Solzhenitsyn.
I sure hope Keith picks up on this story on Monday’s Countdown.
PEACE
August 17th, 2008 at 5:39 pm______
MCMetal Says:
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upright left Says:
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Marie Says:
Jesus would not have been a republican.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
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Nor a democrat.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
But he was a liberal/progressive and not a cancervative…….
August 17th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
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He was if you are referring to helping the poor, loving our neighbors, forgiving, etc. He would not have been a lib by today’s standards if you include behavior and personal responsibility issues.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:40 pmI don’t know if it was said here or not, but since Sen. Obama went first, it seems mcchimpy had the undue advantage. Could it be mcchimpy had time to screen the questions? This is what’s being said.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:45 pmcabbinbagger Says:
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Marie Says:
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Wayne, how to make money and not have to work?
Marry an heiress. Then you only have to satisfy your ego; she’ll take care of everything else.
Yeah, just take John Kerry, for example.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Kerry was sworn in as a U.S. Senator in January 1985 . Sen Kerry and his 1st wife Julia were divorced on July 25, 1988, and the marriage was formally annulled by the Roman Catholic Church in 1997 ; Kerry married Heinz on May 26, 1995, in Nantucket.
He was already a US Senator ; without his pill-popping wife’s family fortune , McDepends would be cleaning toilets at some 2nd rate college or university somewhere right now………
August 17th, 2008 at 5:47 pmupright left Says:
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MCMetal Says:
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upright left Says:
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Marie Says:
Jesus would not have been a republican.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
_____
Nor a democrat.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
But he was a liberal/progressive and not a cancervative…….
August 17th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
______
He was if you are referring to helping the poor, loving our neighbors, forgiving, etc. He would not have been a lib by today’s standards if you include behavior and personal responsibility issues.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
As if he would be a cancervative by today’s “standards” ?
Especially “personal responsibility” ? When does the horseshit GOP and you imbeciles that back them ever own up to all your multitude of screw-ups ?
Christ , you really need to realize the magnitude of the inherent stupidity in your posts before hitting the “Submit Comment” block………………
August 17th, 2008 at 5:54 pmupright left Says:
He would not have been a lib by today’s standards if you include behavior and personal responsibility issues.
Jesus: Do unto others as you would have them do unto yourself.
Rpublicans: Do unto others before they do unto you.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:55 pmupright left – behavior and personal responsibility issues
You’ll need to provide concrete examples or admit no such issues exist.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:56 pmGame of Life Says:
I don’t know if it was said here or not, but since Sen. Obama went first, it seems mcchimpy had the undue advantage. Could it be mcchimpy had time to screen the questions? This is what’s being said.
Game of Life, as I posted at C&L (yes, they actually had threads up last night and Katy and I were both there…) unless the “honest Christians” made sure McStain was alone OR made sure that they stripped him and his handlers of all electronic equipment before putting him/them in the “cone of silence” I have absolutely no doubt that McStain and Co. were receiving texts of each question and perhaps were even streaming the whole thing live. It was oh so obvious that the campaign decided that Obama’s thoughtful consideration of both question and answer was too s-l-o-w to hold the attention of the Fundies, and they told McStain to give rapid-fire responses.
Which is how he was able to answer questions that had not yet been posed. (review the section about merit-based pay)
Will the MSM disect McStain’s performance? No, too much manlove for him! And they call Obama the Messiah…
PEACE
August 17th, 2008 at 5:57 pmSince when is the left against personal responsibility?
These trolls are so full of shit.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:58 pmGame of Life Says:
I don’t know if it was said here or not, but since Sen. Obama went first, it seems mcchimpy had the undue advantage. Could it be mcchimpy had time to screen the questions? This is what’s being said.
As the threads that weave McPain’s campaign’s are lies, fabrications, acts, flip flops, deceits… of course this too was a fraud…. I believe McCain had prior knowledge of what questions would be asked…. for Jesus of course and to save the babies.
Those that support McCain can not give fats to support their reasons… unless they are a bible humping lunatic.
August 17th, 2008 at 6:00 pmWorkers of the World… UNITE!
August 17th, 2008 at 6:08 pmMcSame’s economic views, in a nutshell:
http://www.musicals101.com/News/Magoo.JPG
August 17th, 2008 at 6:17 pmSetting aside the all too easy gotcha moment of the 5 mil comment, why in the world is Obama continually pressed to *be more specific* and McCain is constantly given a free ride as he glosses over questions he doesn’t want to answer with jokes or war stories?
Everyone admits he *comes alive* when talking about foreign policy and isn’t that comfortable talking about the economy. All around him our economy is in shambles, our roads and bridges are literally falling apart, our schools are decaying and our children are roaming the streets begging for direction and he just can’t get comfortable addressing anything but war, war and more war with no mention of how to pay for any of it.
Hold this man accountable for what he’s proposing for this country. Obama gets his feet held to the fire as he should, why not the other guy?
August 17th, 2008 at 6:26 pmZooey Says:
The current dems in congress don’t seem to believe in holdings bush, cheney, rove, rumsfield, miers, and bolton “personally responsible” for their treason, war crimes and crimes against humanity.
They will not even take steps to enforce subpoenas, even when courts have affirmed they have the right to do so.
August 17th, 2008 at 6:34 pmAnother Joe Says:
Zooey Says:
Since when is the left against personal responsibility?
The current dems in congress don’t seem to believe in holdings bush, cheney, rove, rumsfield, miers, and bolton “personally responsible” for their treason, war crimes and crimes against humanity.
They will not even take steps to enforce subpoenas, even when courts have affirmed they have the right to do so.
August 17th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
I think you must have some idea that I was speaking of individual personal responsibility. You know, normal people. Not the pseudo-left in power right now.
August 17th, 2008 at 6:38 pmMcSame response to Warren’s question is a a typical response by this would-be president who avoids being held accountable for his lack of understanding of basic issues, and/or memory of the positions he has taken previously, by simply throwing some asinine response out there and then saying, “Oh, but seriously, my friends….I think your question should be this instead, since this way I can sound folksy and say ’surge, surge, surge’, or ‘tax breaks for everyone’.
August 17th, 2008 at 6:38 pmGrampy McLame is so out of touch with average americans, he probably doesn’t even know what the average annual salary is for a middle class family. He vainly tries to hide his glaring ignorance with stupid jokes.
August 17th, 2008 at 6:41 pmSpencers Mom
August 17th, 2008 at 6:45 pmYES! I wanted to repeat LauraTX post and I see you have noted it also — I am quite sure that Olberman gets a lot of material from TP sources — let’s hope he picks up on this one. This story needs to get around!
Plagiarism or pandering – or both?
JK
August 17th, 2008 at 7:02 pmIt’s called thinking before you speak. I kow you are accustomed to shooting from the hip politicians, who open their mouths and words just fly out, leaving their handlers to clean up after them — or for the media to give them a pass.
Obama actually thinks about what he is saying. Get used to it.
After licking Bush’s boot for 8 (eight!) years, the troll JK wants us to believe he doesn’t like a presidential candidate who “uh’s and ha’s”?
That’s comedy gold.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:06 pmnothing can be finer than a trailer park troll (john kerry) defecating and urinating is his wal-mart undies as his assclown idol mclame reveals himself to america as the out of touch elitist he is.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:08 pmThe JK troll likes to be told how and what to think, so naturally he’s uncomfortable with a presidential candidate who thinks for himself.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:09 pmZooey Says:
Folks, we have a winner!!
Well done, katy!
thanky, zooey!
the more i think about and learn about this “forum” the more pissesd off i get about it…
some people better be speaking out about the LIES and CHEATING and HYPOCRISY and down-right double-standard dirty dealings that went on at that church by mcDIRTY and his campaign.
.
welton gaddy just came on the radio… he should have some interesting things to say… time to listen…
and catch up reading these comments… what do others think…
August 17th, 2008 at 7:10 pmZooey Says:
“The JK troll likes to be told how and what to think”
well, zooey, lemmie give this a try:
hey john kerry, you’re not smart enough to think so, STFU assclown and don’t open up your piehole until i tell you to.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:10 pmSOMEONE GET A MOP – there is troll crap in aisle/post #80.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:11 pmLauraTX@47
HAHAHAHA
Excellent read.
Don’t forget his Packer/?? lie.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:14 pmBozo The Neoclown Says:
well, zooey, lemmie give this a try:
hey john kerry, you’re not smart enough to think so, STFU assclown and don’t open up your piehole until i tell you to.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
First you have to establish yourself as a movie star-type father figure, and a stern authority figure for the piss-soaked cry baby — then he’ll beg you on his knees to tell him to STFU and speak only when spoken to.
:-D
August 17th, 2008 at 7:17 pmPoor jk. he believes non-answers are answers.
mcchimpy was funny? It would be if death wasn’t in the equation.
you are the funny one!
August 17th, 2008 at 7:18 pm:::::Rolls eyes::::::
yeah zooey, ole charlie heston was surely a masculine dude running around in a toga in all those homoerotic gladiator movies. Yet, neoclowns thought of him as a father figure.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:20 pmBozo,
McCain is going the way of Charlton Heston — the slow but sure spiral into dementia. A puppet on a string…
August 17th, 2008 at 7:23 pmhhhmmmm, zooey, you may be on to something: waaahhhhpublicanism causes one’s brain to rot: first ronnie raygun, then charlie heston, now grampy mclame.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:25 pmMcCain Jokes About His Definition Of The Rich: ‘How About $5 Million?’
McCain Jokes About His Definition Of The Poor: ‘How About Who Can’t afford Budweiser?’
August 17th, 2008 at 7:26 pmWARREN: We’re going to talk about four different issues tonight, Barack. The first issue is on leadership.
OBAMA: All right.
WARREN: These first set of questions deal with your personal life as a leader, and I’m not going to do this with any other segment. But as a pastor, I’ve got some verses that have to do with leadership. And the first issue is the area of listening. There’s a verse in proverbs that says, “fools think they need no advice but wise listen to other people.” Who are the three wisest people you know in your life, and who are you going to rely on heavily in your administration?
…
WARREN: My first question, was the cone of silence comfortable you were in just now?
MCCAIN: I was trying to hear through the wall.
WARREN: This first set of questions deals with leadership and the personal life of leadership. The first question, who are the three wisest people that you know that you would rely on heavily in an administration?
right outta the box, p rick is phrasing the question differently… giving different types of answers…
and, where’s the “verses” for mcHOLY… eh?
August 17th, 2008 at 7:29 pmBozo,
A fish rots from the head down — and the right wouldn’t have it any other way when choosing a leader. ;)
August 17th, 2008 at 7:30 pmMCMetal Says:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
As if he would be a cancervative by today’s “standards” ?
Especially “personal responsibility” ? When does the horseshit GOP and you imbeciles that back them ever own up to all your multitude of screw-ups ?
Christ , you really need to realize the magnitude of the inherent stupidity in your posts before hitting the “Submit Comment” block………………
August 17th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Which comment did you misconstrue to mean that I said Jesus was a conservative or that I’m a Republican? Jesus would not have condoned the policies of either of our major parties. I’m voting for Obama, but I choose to recognize the failings of both parties rather than blindly follow either.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:32 pmNo. 2
to OBAMA -
WARREN: OK, all right. Let’s talk about personal life. The Bible says that integrity and love are the basis of leadership. This is a tough question. What would be, looking over your life — everybody’s got weaknesses. Nobody’s perfect — would be the greatest moral failure in your life? And what would be the greatest moral failure of America?
…
WARREN: OK, let me ask you this. This is a character question.
MCCAIN: I hope they get easier.
WARREN: Well, this one isn’t any easier. We’ve had a lot of leaders, because of their weaknesses, character flaws, stumble, become ineffective, are not even serving anymore, serving our country. What’s been your greatest moral failure, and what has been the great — what do you think is the greatest moral failure of America?
…
holy crap… obama gets a “personal” question…
August 17th, 2008 at 7:39 pmmcLAME gets one about other “leaders”…
and again, no biblical reference…
katy,
So much for the “identical questions.”
**eyes rolling**
August 17th, 2008 at 7:47 pm______
katy Says:
holy crap… obama gets a “personal” question…
mcLAME gets one about other “leaders”…
and again, no biblical reference…
August 17th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
____
With Obama, he said personal, with McCain he called it a character question. The question itself was the same. Perhaps he made Biblical references to Obama because he had regular church attendance and McCain didn’t.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:47 pmAfter the gopper convention and McCain is the nominee, the gloves have to come off.
In the area of morale values the hypocrisy is unbearable as the Christians glory over their candidate, a man that left his first wife and 3 children, a wife still in a wheelchair after a car accident for a person he now offers for a topless beauty contest and call a c*nt.
In contrast, unlike 99.99999% of our population, Obama, after graduating from college, opted to help the poor rather than take a job where the money was. A rare but HUGE Christian trait.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:54 pmNo. 3
to obama -
WARREN: We’ve talked about this before, about the common good, and the common ground and common good. Can you give me an example of a time — you know, I’ve seen that a lot of good legislation gets killed because of party loyalty. Can you give me a good example where you went against party loyalty, and maybe even win against your own best interest, for the good of America?
…
to mccain:
WARREN: John, you know that a lot of good legislation dies because of partisan politics, and party loyalty keeps people from really getting forward on putting America’s best first. Can you give me an example of where you led against your party’s interests — oh, this is hard — (LAUGHTER) — and really, maybe against your own best interests for the good of America?
ok, that one’s relatively passable…
.
No. 4
[Obama's reply to the above was about working with mcCAVE on campaign finance reform, and evidently p.rick didn't get the answer he wanted because he asked this:]
WARREN: Let me ask it this way. A lot of times candidates are accused of flip-flopping, but actually sometimes flip-flopping is smart because you actually have decided on a better position based on knowledge that you didn’t have.
OBAMA: Right.
WARREN: What’s the most significant position you held ten years ago that you no longer hold today, that you flipped on, you changed on, because you actually see it differently?
OBAMA: Because I actually changed my mind.
WARREN: You changed your mind. Exactly.
OBAMA: … the issue of welfare reform …
…
WARREN: There’s a verse in the Bible that says intelligent people look for ideas, in fact, they search for them. What is the most significant position that you’ve held, ten years ago, that you know longer hold today. I think the point I’m trying to make is that leaders are not stubborn. They do change their mind with additional information.
So give me a good example of something, ten years ago, you said that’s the way I feel about and now, ten years later, I changed my position. That’s not flip-flopping. Sometimes that’s growing in wisdom.
MCCAIN: Offshore drilling …
hey! mcDRILL got some bible that time!
August 17th, 2008 at 8:01 pmMarie Says:
JK
It’s called thinking before you speak.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
I have to agree with you on this. After his honest comment about people being bitter and tend to latch on to their guns and bibles in a time of crisis, I would weigh my words too.
August 17th, 2008 at 8:05 pmNo. 5
WARREN: What’s the most significant — let me ask it this way. What’s the most gut-wrenching decision you ever had to make and how did you process that to come to that decision?
OBAMA: Well, you know, I think the opposition to the war in Iraq was as tough a decision as I’ve had to make. …
…
MCCAIN: [rambling about nukes in france and the "pro-American president of France"]
WARREN: Well, you just took the — I had that question later on but now we don’t have to ask it. What’s the most gut-wrenching decision you’ve ever had to make? And what was the process that you used to make it?
MCCAIN: It was long ago, and far away, in a prison camp in North Vietnam. …
pretty close, p.rick… close enough, at least…
August 17th, 2008 at 8:12 pm(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
No. 6
WARREN: Everybody’s got a world view, a Buddhist, a Baptist, a secularist, an atheist, everybody’s got a world view. I wrote or invited people who get newsletter to write in their questions. We have about 200,000 questions that came in. And I only have 500 in this section. So no matter how you answer these world view questions, somebody’s not going to like it, because we’re all different kinds of world views in America. But as — people want to know what your world view is. So as we go through this, these mine fields, let’s just kind of tick them off, the mine fields of America.
The first one is Christianity. Now, you’ve made no doubts about your faith in Jesus Christ. What does that mean to you? What does it mean to you to trust in Christ? And what does that mean to you on a daily basis? What does that really look like?
OBAMA: As a starting point, it means I believe in — that Jesus Christ died for my sins, and that I am redeemed through him. …
…
WARREN: Welcome back. Welcome back. And we’re here with Senator John McCain.
Now, John, in this next section we’re going to talk about world view. And I actually invited a couple hundred thousand people of my personal friends to send me their questions. And these are heartland questions that came in from all over America. No matter how you answer them, somebody’s not going to like them, because we have many world views, obviously, in America. But let’s walk through these minefields together.
First, you’ve made no doubt about the fact that you are a Christian. You publicly say you’re a follower of Christ. What does that mean to you and how does faith work out in your life on a daily basis? What does it mean to you?
MCCAIN: It means I’m saved and forgiven. We’re talking about the world. Our faith encompasses not just the United States of America but the world. Can I tell you another story real quick?
p.rick probably figured any mention of “a Buddhist, a Baptist, a secularist, an atheist” would totally befuddle the ol’ guy…
it was the cross story, btw…
August 17th, 2008 at 8:21 pmI’ve never made more than $24K in my life, and I’m far richer than McCain will ever be.
And you personally EARNED it, as opposed to MARRYING into it like McAdulterer.
August 17th, 2008 at 8:22 pmTo McIIIrd, being rich means he doesn’t have to worry about calling his wife a trollopyc*nt because she’s captivated by the power of having the POTUS by the nutsack.
August 17th, 2008 at 8:25 pmQuote from Peter B Collins:
If you support Obama please drive with your head lights on during the day.
If you support McCain, please drive with your head lights off during the night.
August 17th, 2008 at 8:25 pmkaty, good job.
And the repugs said he’s on top of his game. Yeah he is. Lying as usual.
August 17th, 2008 at 8:29 pmNo. 7
WARREN: Yes. Let’s go through the tough ones. Now, the most –
OBAMA: I thought that was pretty tough.
WARREN: That was a freebie. That was a gimme. That was a gimme, OK? Now, let’s deal with abortion; 40 million abortions since Roe v. Wade. As a pastor, I have to deal with this all of the time, all of the pain and all of the conflicts. I know this is a very complex issue. Forty million abortions, at what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?
OBAMA: Well, you know, I think that whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade.
…
WARREN: Let’s go into the tough ones. That was just a gimme.
MCCAIN: All right.
WARREN: Let’s deal with abortion. I, as a pastor, have to deal with this all the time, every different angle, every different pain, all of the decisions and all of that. Forty million abortions since Roe v. Wade. Some people, people who believe that life begins at conception, believe that’s a holocaust for many people. What point is a baby entitled to human rights?
MCCAIN: At the moment of conception. (APPLAUSE). …
does it seem he is leading them on?
August 17th, 2008 at 8:30 pmupright left Says:
——————————————————————————–
MCMetal Says:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
As if he would be a cancervative by today’s “standards” ?
Especially “personal responsibility” ? When does the horseshit GOP and you imbeciles that back them ever own up to all your multitude of screw-ups ?
Christ , you really need to realize the magnitude of the inherent stupidity in your posts before hitting the “Submit Comment” block………………
August 17th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Which comment did you misconstrue to mean that I said Jesus was a conservative or that I’m a Republican? Jesus would not have condoned the policies of either of our major parties. I’m voting for Obama, but I choose to recognize the failings of both parties rather than blindly follow either.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
For someone who claims you aren’t partial to one side or the other , all I see is your constant critical remarks/comments of Dems and of liberals earlier ; that sure as hell doesn’t seem to me as if you’re as open-minded as you claim to be……..
August 17th, 2008 at 8:38 pmMcCain keeps saying/implying that he is going to balance the budget by getting rid of useless pet projects. But you would have to get rid of 600,000 million-dollar items to balance the budget. There obviously aren’t that many. When will the media ever have the cajones to mention this? When will they say that Bush’s tax cuts for the rich have lowered revenues? Trickle down does not work. Trickle up does.
August 17th, 2008 at 8:40 pmHow many abortions, again, would you repeat the number about forty million more times, reverend????
August 17th, 2008 at 8:41 pmupright left Says:
——————————————————————————–
______
katy Says:
holy crap… obama gets a “personal” question…
mcLAME gets one about other “leaders”…
and again, no biblical reference…
August 17th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
____
With Obama, he said personal, with McCain he called it a character question. The question itself was the same. Perhaps he made Biblical references to Obama because he had regular church attendance and McCain didn’t.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
They’re posing “character questions” to an adulterer and supporter of the worst and most dishonest president and administration in US history ?
Should have been categorized as “lacking character” questions……
August 17th, 2008 at 8:42 pmupright left,
August 17th, 2008 at 8:46 pmYou want us to believe you are voting for Obama after all the posts you have made here?!? What a load of BS. I think you are closer to Attila The Hun on the political spectrum.
McIIIrd is a sad excuse for a ‘character’…
August 17th, 2008 at 8:47 pmAdulterer, liar, and maltempered charlatan..
No. 8 & 9
WARREN: There’s a lot more I’d like to ask on that. We have 15 other questions here. Define marriage.
OBAMA: I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian — for me — for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God’s in the mix. But –
WARREN: Would you support a Constitutional Amendment with that definition?
OBAMA: No, I would not.
WARREN: Why not?
OBAMA: Because historically — because historically, we have not defined marriage in our constitution. It’s been a matter of state law. That has been our tradition. I mean, let’s break it down. …
…
MCCAIN: … And this presidency will have pro-life policies. …
WARREN: OK, we don’t have to beleaguer on that one. Define marriage.
MCCAIN: A union — a union between man and woman, between one man and one woman. That’s my definition of marriage.
Could I — are we going to get back to the importance of Supreme Court Justices or should I mention –
WARREN: We will get to that.
[...]
WARREN: Let me ask you a question related to that. We have a bill right here in California, Proposition H, that’s going on, because the court overturns this definition of marriage. Was the Supreme Court of California wrong?
MCCAIN: I believe they were wrong, and I strongly support preserving …
No. 9 is two different questions…
and this: … are we going to get back to the importance of Supreme Court Justices …
August 17th, 2008 at 8:49 pmis a “tell” -
according to the CNN transcript, THAT IS THE FIRST TIME THOSE WORDS WERE MENTIONED TO OR FROM JOHN mcCHEATER DURING HIS “INTERVIEW”…
What in the fu(king hell is with Warren and all these religious questions to Obama ?
Religious persecution ?
Where ????????
“The war on Christmas” ?
Gimme a break ; and why in the hell is a friggin Pastor asking presidential candidates any questions (and repeating verses directly from the Bible) when we supposedly live in a secular nation ???????????
August 17th, 2008 at 8:54 pmdoes it seem he is leading them on?
I really did not expect anything better than this… after all this was in a biased church and in Orange country. And with our era of culture of corruption we have from the sitting pres, nothing surprises me.
The real question is how can Obama remain the good, honest, clean candidate while wadding in this squalor and still come out ahead. Can he rise above with the MSM and all corporate ties Playing against him for their agenda?
I think we have more work to do than we realize…. but we will get it done.
August 17th, 2008 at 8:57 pmMCCAIN: How about $5 million?
Gawd, that’s fuuuuuuu-nnnneeeeeeeee. That McCain is such a crack-up. Let’s get him a stint on the plagiaristic Fox’s ‘HalfHour News Hour” (d’ya think that some dim bulb watched CBC’s “This Hour Has 22 Minutes” and said “Hey! I just had an idea!”).
Get McCain a stand-up spot, and levae hinm doing something that is far less dangerous to the world than running for preznit….
Oh, you say Faux Snooze’s show was cancelled? Ohhh…. Maybe he can guest-host “The Dennis Miller Show”….
Cheers,
August 17th, 2008 at 8:58 pmBWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA @ McDepends claiming that David Betrayus is one of the greatest “leaders” in US history for “leading us to victory in Iraq” ; yeah , that’s much tougher than beating the English back in the late 1700’s and the Germans and Japanese in the 40’s , you moronic old fool……
August 17th, 2008 at 9:04 pmNO. 10
WARREN: OK, how about this, what about stem cells? We’ve had this scientific break-through of treating these pluarpotent (ph) stem cells in adult cells. Do we still need federal funding for research? Would you still support that for embryo stem cells?
OBAMA: Keep in mind the way the stem cell legislation that was vetoed by the president was structured. What it said was you could only use embryos that were about to be discarded, …
…
WARREN: OK. (APPLAUSE). All right.
Another issue, stem cells. We’ve had the scientific break-through of creating pluri-potent (ph) stem cells through adult stem cells.
MCCAIN: Yes.
WARREN: So would you favor or oppose the federal funding of embryonic stem cell research since we had this other break-through?
MCCAIN: For those of us in the pro-life community this has been a great struggle and a terrible dilemma because we’re also taught other obligations that we have as well. I’ve come down on the side of stem cell research. …
good on you, john…
August 17th, 2008 at 9:04 pmbut those of us in the reality-based community think it’s a no-brainer…
There are very false assumptions here. One is that religious people are better than non-religious people. Sociologists have been studying this (as much as they can) for about 100 years. Studies do NOT show that religious people are better than non-religious people.
Another is that Christians are better than non-Christians. (You know, like David Koresch is better than the Dali Llama) This also is not true.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:08 pmWhat amazes me is that the Psycochristians are convinced Sen. Obama is the Antichrist and will force our country into: atheism, immorality, communism, lycanthropy, Islam, black racism, Ebonics, white racism, radical black Christianity, free-love, unilateral disarmament, abortion, vegetarianism, mopery and dopery, gay marriage, polygamy, pacifism, bestiality, baldness, voodoo, pedophilia, misogyny, miscegenation, kiddie-porn, socialism, globalization, isolationism, high taxes and foreign languages.
It doesn’t seem to matter what Sen. Obama has said or done or that, to all appearences, he’s led a very upright and moral life. The sub 20% group has made up their “minds”, fed by the likes of Rush and Bill0 and there own fears, and they are oblivious to the fact that McSpin barely has a character to defend.
From the first moments of his Naval career, to the present day, his entire life is a story of evading personal, and professional, responsibility for his fundamental dishonesty.
Maverick my rump. He’s a fraud and a charlatan. His consistent record of loudly proclaiming his support for “unpopular” measures, only to silently switch his vote or blow it off, should be enough to convince anyone he’s a pandering POS who rarely if ever tells the truth. Heck! He’s not even honest enough to admit his voting record is simply an indication of his radical rightwrong views.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:17 pmNo. 11
WARREN: OK, we’ve got one last time [sic - item?] — I’ve got a bunch more, but let me ask you one about evil. Does evil exist? And if it does, do we ignore it? Do we negotiate with it? Do we contain it? Do we defeat it?
OBAMA: Evil does exist. I mean, I think we see evil all the time. We see evil in Darfur. We see evil, sadly, on the streets of our cities. …
…
WARREN: How about the issue of evil. I asked this of your rival, in the previous debate. Does evil exist and, if so, should ignore it, negotiate it with it, contain it or defeat it?
MCCAIN: Defeat it. A couple of points. One, if I’m president of the United States, my friends, if I have to follow him to the gates of hell, … radical Islamic extremism.
evidently evil exists…
August 17th, 2008 at 9:19 pmbut to meBLAME, “evil” = “radical Islamic extremism” …
Idiot McDepends just claimed that the SCOTUS justices must not “legislate from the bench” ; you mean like in the 2000 election , you stupid old fart ?
August 17th, 2008 at 9:26 pmthe second part of OBAMA’s answer really made me happy and proud…
i think it was really brave of him to call out the hypocrites, ever so subtly, diplomatically…
OBAMA: Evil does exist. I mean, I think we see evil all the time. We see evil in Darfur. We see evil, sadly, on the streets of our cities. We see evil in parents who viciously abuse their children. I think it has to be confronted. It has to be confronted squarely, and one of the things that I strongly believe is that, now, we are not going to, as individuals, be able to erase evil from the world. That is God’s task, but we can be soldiers in that process, and we can confront it when we see it.
Now, the one thing that I think is very important is for to us have some humility in how we approach the issue of confronting evil, because a lot of evil’s been perpetrated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:27 pm125 Keith,
Those that look down on one another or judge others are, in my option, breaking one of God’s laws.
When the Jesus folks come to my door, I remind them that I do obey God’s laws better than most persons of religious groups.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:30 pmBoth candidates came out opposed to Evil and in favor of Good. Well, that was a real shocker. I’m glad we got that cleared up.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:34 pmMCCAIN: How about $5 million? No, but seriously, I don’t think you can, I don’t think seriously that the point is I’m trying to make, seriously, and I’m sure that comment will be distorted
As soon as he said that I thought of TP, and sure enough…
August 17th, 2008 at 9:36 pmNo. 12
OBAMA: In the name of good, and I think, you know, one thing that’s very important is having some humility in recognizing that just because we think that our intentions are good, doesn’t always mean that we’re going to be doing good.
[had to get that in there]
WARREN: OK. All right. Let’s move on to some domestic issues. Don’t give me your stump speech on these. Try to – let’s go through it.
OBAMA: All right, this is hard. I’ve been stumping for a long time.
WARREN: I know it is.
OBAMA: All right.
WARREN: OK. The courts. Let me ask it this way. Which existing Supreme Court justice would you not have nominated?
OBAMA: That’s a good one. That’s a good one. I would not have nominated Clarence Thomas. [ applause ] …
…
WARREN: All right. These next questions have to deal with domestic issues. I believe that leadership is stewardship, not ownership. And for a few years, you’re asking to us place a stewardship or our freedom and our security and our economy and the environment and everything into your hands. So here, I have about 500 questions in this category.
The first one is on the courts. Which existing Supreme Court Justices would you not have nominated?
MCCAIN: With all due respect, Justice Ginsburg, Justice Breyer, Justice Souter, and Justice [... ...] Stephens. …
“Justices”
mcPANDER gets to pick from multiples!
and no instructions: “Don’t give me your stump speech”…
August 17th, 2008 at 9:37 pm(at least , yet) (doesn’t matter) (stump away, john)
Wayne Says:
Thompson is in his 80s, so is older than McCain.
– - Ummm, Fred will be 66 in two days. Try using The Google next time.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:38 pmhad enough Says:
When the Jesus folks come to my door, I remind them that I do obey God’s laws better than most persons of religious groups.
I’ll bet that makes them mad.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:38 pmMcCain can take his millions and shove them up his cranky old arse.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:38 pm#126 pete
And these Psycochristians love their wars. I lost all respect when they became such war mongers. What hypocrisy.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:40 pmand THIS comment brought me great hope:
August 17th, 2008 at 9:41 pmOBAMA: … One of the most important jobs of, I believe the Supreme Court is to guard against the encroachment of the executive branch on the other, the power of the other branches.
Keltoi at Night Says:
MCCAIN: How about $5 million? No, but seriously, I don’t think you can, I don’t think seriously that the point is I’m trying to make, seriously, and I’m sure that comment will be distorted
As soon as he said that I thought of TP, and sure enough…
August 17th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Are you having a problem with TP calling McCain on his out of touch, elitist attitude?
August 17th, 2008 at 9:41 pmObama said he would not raise taxes on anyone 70 years old. McCain said he was pandering to the YOUTH vote.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:42 pmhad enough Says:
When the Jesus folks come to my door, I remind them that I do obey God’s laws better than most persons of religious groups.
I ask them to give me their address so I can visit them to talk about atheism. I haven’t seen one actually run, yet, but they do leave. Which is my intention.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:45 pmKeith Says:
had enough Says:
When the Jesus folks come to my door, I remind them that I do obey God’s laws better than most persons of religious groups.
I’ll bet that makes them mad.
Shocked would be a better word. But it IS true.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:45 pmHey Zooster,
That quote is so distorted to begin with—I don’t see how it could be any more distorted.
“…I don’t think you can, I don’t think seriously that the point is I’m trying to make, seriously,…”
August 17th, 2008 at 9:47 pmZooey Says:
Are you having a problem with TP calling McCain on his out of touch, elitist attitude?
What? Sorry, I was busy clinging to my gun.
Are you watching this, Zoe? The guy was telling a joke. Everyone in the audience laughed.
He did say one thing that was dead on, that rich people are often unhappy in the extreme. “Rich” is not a dollar figure.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:47 pmKeith Says:
Hey Zooster,
That quote is so distorted to begin with—I don’t see how it could be any more distorted.
“…I don’t think you can, I don’t think seriously that the point is I’m trying to make, seriously,…”
August 17th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
He knew he was crowding the silver spoon out of his mouth — with his foot.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:49 pmHey JohnKerryTroll, You do know you are a moron dont you? Obama will win the Presidency. There arent enough of you bigoted morons around to stop that. The GOP has proven they are DISASTEROUS at governing. The American people do NOT WANT ANOTHER BUSH CATASTROPHE you idiot
August 17th, 2008 at 9:51 pmIs there any way we can go back to just hating Bush? I find McCain very hard to hate.
When the guy asked him what was the toughest moral question he ever had to face….how many of us would have made that call?
I don’t care who you back, but the man is just tough to dislike.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:51 pmNo. 13
WARREN: OK. The role of faith-based organizes, recent poll says 80 percent of Americans think faith-based organizations do a better job at community services than the government, helping addictions, you know, [ applause ] all the different homelessness, poverty, things like that. The civil rights act of ‘64 says that faith-based organizations have a right to hire people who believe like they do. Would you insist that faith-based organizations forfeit that right to access federal funds?
OBAMA: Well, first of all, I think you’re aware of, Pastor Rick, that I gave a speech earlier this summer promoting faith-based initiatives. …
…
WARREN: All right, let’s talk about the role of faith-based organizations. There was a recent poll that came out, it said over 70 percent of Americans believe that faith-based organizations do a better job at community services…
MCCAIN: Because Americans are right.
WARREN: … than the government. You know, addictions, homelessness, poverty, all of these, prisoner rehab, things like that. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 allows religious organizations, not just churches but faith-based organizations to keep and hire the people that they believe share common beliefs with.
MCCAIN: Yes.
WARREN: Would you insist that faith-based organizations forfeit that right to access federal funds?
MCCAIN: Absolutely, not. And if you did, it would mean a severe crippling of faith-based organizations and their ability to do things so successfully.
Life is full of anecdotes. And I’m sorry to tell you so many anecdotes. … [no you're not] [katrina, btw]
ok, that one’s fairly consistant…
August 17th, 2008 at 9:52 pmpete Says:
had enough Says:
When the Jesus folks come to my door, I remind them that I do obey God’s laws better than most persons of religious groups.
I ask them to give me their address so I can visit them to talk about atheism. I haven’t seen one actually run, yet, but they do leave. Which is my intention.
LOL
August 17th, 2008 at 9:53 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Zooey Says:
Are you having a problem with TP calling McCain on his out of touch, elitist attitude?
What? Sorry, I was busy clinging to my gun.
Are you watching this, Zoe? The guy was telling a joke. Everyone in the audience laughed.
He did say one thing that was dead on, that rich people are often unhappy in the extreme. “Rich” is not a dollar figure.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Ha ha, that was a real knee-slapper. Of course the audience full of right wing Bush-lovers laughed — even though they probably don’t qualify as “base.” This was a Q & A session, to ask the candidates about their position on certain things — with a religious slant, of course — not an evening on the Daily Show.
I already said above that I’m way richer than McCain has ever been. We can agree on that.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:54 pmSince he is in favor of the Iraq War and in favor of giving all our resources to the rich and bankrupting the country and saying anything it takes to get elected—-he is not hard to dislike.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:55 pmKeltoi,
August 17th, 2008 at 9:57 pmChildren born into poverty in the US are often unhappy in the extreme, too. I have more sympathy for them than Leona Helmsly.
Your point, Keltoi?
Has anyone “distorted” the comment here, in your opinion?
August 17th, 2008 at 9:59 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
——————————————————————————–
Are you watching this, Zoe? The guy was telling a joke. Everyone in the audience laughed.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Wow !!!!!!!!!!
He got a GOP backing group to laugh ; a group that consisted of his pill-popping empty headed wife and that effeminate moron Graham , and that other pillar of mental stability , Brownback ………….
Maybe he’s got a a chance on “Last Comic Standing” when he gets trampled in November……….
August 17th, 2008 at 9:59 pmBullshit. The question was asked in relation to tax policy.
McCain didn’t want to answer it, so he made an absurd joke, crafted (if it could be called that) to both deflect the intent of the question and to preempt any resulting criticism.
It was a coward’s answer.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:01 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
… I don’t care who you back, but the man is just tough to dislike.
_____
No, he isn’t. He’s EASY to dislike, the phony-baloney.
McSame’s PRINCIPLES: “It’s my turn, dammit.”
August 17th, 2008 at 10:02 pmZooey Says:
not an evening on the Daily Show.
Are you kidding? McCain has been on that set so many times Stewart should make him an honorary co-host. Has Obama ever been on? I honestly don’t know.
I already said above that I’m way richer than McCain has ever been. We can agree on that.
You and me both, Gods be Praised. While someone has to do the job, I have often thought you must be pretty damn empty inside to want to be President, whatever your party.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:02 pmNo. 14
WARREN: OK. Let’s go to education. America right now ranks 19th in high school graduations. We’re first in incarcerations.
OBAMA: Not good.
WARREN: Not good. 80 percent of Americans recently polled said they believe in merit pay. Now, for teachers, do you – I’m not asking do you think all teachers should get a raise. Do you think better teachers should be paid better? They should be paid more than poor teachers?
OBAMA: I think that we should – and I’ve said this publicly, that we should set up a system of performance pay for teachers …
…
WARREN: Let’s talk about education. America ranks 19th in high school graduations, but we’re first in incarcerations. Everybody says they want more accountability in schools.
MCCAIN: Um-hum.
WARREN: About 80 percent of America says they support merit pay for the best teachers. Now, I don’t want to hear your stump speech on education.
MCCAIN: Yes, yes, and find bad teachers another line of work. (APPLAUSE).
another “tell”… and he didn’t even wait for the question…
i’m almost done…
August 17th, 2008 at 10:02 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
——————————————————————————–
Is there any way we can go back to just hating Bush? I find McCain very hard to hate.
When the guy asked him what was the toughest moral question he ever had to face….how many of us would have made that call?
I don’t care who you back, but the man is just tough to dislike.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
You believe someone who claims that David Betrayus is “one of the great military leaders in American history” and who reacts in the same manner as Chimpy does to questions and situations he’s faced with , is “tough to dislike” ?
Yeah , for a GOP tool like yourself , I guess it is……..
August 17th, 2008 at 10:04 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
I don’t care who you back, but the man is just tough to dislike.
– - Ahh, the next McCain Campaign slogan, “The man is just tough to dislike.” High praise indeed.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:04 pmI guess I could “like” McCain if he was waiting at the Vets to get treatment for his PTSD, but as a candidate for POTUS I don’t see much to like.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:04 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Zooey Says:
not an evening on the Daily Show.
Are you kidding? McCain has been on that set so many times Stewart should make him an honorary co-host. Has Obama ever been on? I honestly don’t know.
…
August 17th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Wow. Just pull that portion of what I said out of the comment, so you can make some silly point, will ya?
Way to entirely miss the point.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:05 pmHave to disagree with you there.
The John McCain of 2000, he was tough to dislike.
The John McCain of 2008 is a mere shell of that man, and a dangerous candidate for president.
He’s almost as big a dick as Dubya, he’s just as out of touch, and he’s just as dead certain about stuff that seems to most of us to be completely asinine.
I didn’t see this until last night, but now I think McCain is more dangerous than Bush for this nation.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:05 pmBad politicians like the Panda Bear McCain need to find a new line of work.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:06 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
——————————————————————————–
While someone has to do the job, I have often thought you must be pretty damn empty inside to want to be President, whatever your party.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Too bad for the US and all its citizens , the last 8 years and the current GOP candidate are also empty-headed in addition to their lack of a soul………….
August 17th, 2008 at 10:07 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi at Night Says:
The guy was telling a joke. Everyone in the audience laughed.
He did say one thing that was dead on, that rich people are often unhappy in the extreme. “Rich” is not a dollar figure.
Bullshit. The question was asked in relation to tax policy.
McCain didn’t want to answer it, so he made an absurd joke, crafted (if it could be called that) to both deflect the intent of the question and to preempt any resulting criticism.
It was a coward’s answer.
Mmmmmm…I would not be calling McCain a coward, myself. It was a political answer.
Was Obama any less cowardly in putting the figure where he did? Everyone here is quick to call McCain a pander-bear; what is more pandering that class warfare?
And no, I haven’t read every post on this thread, so I can’t say if anyone had distorted his comments, though that happens often enough. I just thought it was funny when he said it and I thought of TP and went straight here and found a thread on it.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:07 pmThat should have read, Pander Bear McCain.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:08 pm“Difficult to dislike”? Check his record of deceiving his constituents, his colleagues on both sides of the aisle, and the American public. Heck! Even veteran’s and senior’s advocates seem to hate his guts though a distressing number seem oblivious to his real positions.
I can’t help but wonder how many Democrats, assured of his support on a piece of legislation, have relaxed their efforts only to have McSpin vote the other way and take other Reps. with him? Personally, I would belt anyone who pulled that crap on me. I’ve never even met the man and I can’t stand him.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:08 pmAnd yet McCain claims that Obama is the “celebrity” in the race.
Go figure.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:08 pmBadmoodman Says:
… “The man is just tough to dislike.” High praise indeed.
_____
Didn’t stop POX Spews & swastika radio from instructing their mouth-breathers to hate his fifth-choice guts for more than a decade.
Their abrupt 180 is making their pointy little heads do 7000 rpm — yet, they STILL hate his guts. They’ve been TOLD to.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:09 pmBadmoodman Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi at Night Says:
I don’t care who you back, but the man is just tough to dislike.
- – Ahh, the next McCain Campaign slogan, “The man is just tough to dislike.” High praise indeed.
Cute! And it fits on a bumpersticker.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:09 pmThe GOP at least since Reagan has engaged in a monumental class war on the working people of America.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:09 pmNo. 15
WARREN: OK. Taxes, this is a real simple question. Define rich. [ laughter ] I mean give me a number, Is it $50,000, $100,000, 200,000? Everybody keeps talking about who we’re going to tax. How can you define that?
OBAMA: You know, if you’ve got book sales of $25 million, then you qualify.
[ laughter ] [ applause ]
OBAMA: Yes.
WARREN: No, I’m not asking about me.
OBAMA: Look, the – here’s how I think about it. Here’s how I think about it. And this is reflected in my tax plan. If you are making $150,000 a year or less, as a family, then you’re middle class or you may be poor. But $150,000 down you’re basically middle class, obviously depends on the region where you’re living.
WARREN: In this region, you’re poor.
…
[WARREN]: Ok, on taxes, define “rich.” Everybody talks about taxing the rich, but not the poor, the middle class. At what point – give me a number, give me a specific number – where do you move from middle class to rich?
Is it $100,000, is it $50,000, is it $200,000? How does anybody know if we don’t know what the standards are?
MCCAIN: Some of the richest people I’ve ever known in my life are the most unhappy. I think that rich should be defined by a home, a good job, an education and the ability to hand to our children a more prosperous and safer world than the one that we inherited.
like i said, he just described the “Former Middle Class”…
August 17th, 2008 at 10:10 pmSilver spoon entitlement with one foot in the grave….not what I want for POTUS.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:12 pm172. jb Says:
The GOP at least since Reagan has engaged in a monumental class war on the working people of America.
_____
Any serious student of U.S. history knows that there has ALWAYS been class warfare.
Waged from the top down.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:12 pmYou’re damn right I’ll call McCain a coward if he acts like one. He was a coward on this question, for the reason I noted:
He didn’t want to give a direct answer (as Obama did). So he gave a bullshit “joke” answer, ignored the context of tax policy and reframed it as a “quality of life” issue. In short, he completely avoided answering the question.
So yes, I call that cowardly. You call it “political”, I call it bullshit. Isn’t this the guy whose fame is tied to his “Straight Talk Express”? Some “Straight Talk” there.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:13 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi at Night Says:
Zooey Says:
not an evening on the Daily Show.
Are you kidding? McCain has been on that set so many times Stewart should make him an honorary co-host. Has Obama ever been on? I honestly don’t know.
And yet McCain claims that Obama is the “celebrity” in the race.
Go figure.
I think Stewart has genuine affection for McCain and vica-versa. They are both wise-assess.
You gotta admit, Ralph, McCains willingness to tell a joke in a highly public forum is refreshing. I am so sick of pols who never show their human side.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:15 pmMcCain offers no serious solutions concerning education, just the smug comment about bad teachers needing to find another line of work. What a putz. McCain needs to find a new line of “work”. He hasn’t even been showing up for crucial votes. All he cares about is his own glory….and the fetus.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:16 pmKeltoi,
Telling jokes like that is McCain’s defense mechanism. He’s avoiding the issue, and you lap it up as folksy and charming.
You voted for Bush at least once, didn’t you?
August 17th, 2008 at 10:18 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
——————————————————————————–
ralph the wonder llama Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi at Night Says:
The guy was telling a joke. Everyone in the audience laughed.
He did say one thing that was dead on, that rich people are often unhappy in the extreme. “Rich” is not a dollar figure.
Bullshit. The question was asked in relation to tax policy.
McCain didn’t want to answer it, so he made an absurd joke, crafted (if it could be called that) to both deflect the intent of the question and to preempt any resulting criticism.
It was a coward’s answer.
Mmmmmm…I would not be calling McCain a coward, myself. It was a political answer.
Was Obama any less cowardly in putting the figure where he did? Everyone here is quick to call McCain a pander-bear; what is more pandering that class warfare?
And no, I haven’t read every post on this thread, so I can’t say if anyone had distorted his comments, though that happens often enough. I just thought it was funny when he said it and I thought of TP and went straight here and found a thread on it.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Obama knows what it’s like to be around the poverty level , coming from basically nothing ; how the hell is that “pandering” ?
And of course , McStupid marrying into money , which is all that he’s got because his Senate career is about as useless as he is , has no bias ……..You’re a tool.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:19 pmFolksy and charming is a good bit for the old folks home, but we need better material for the White House.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:20 pmupright left Says:
unfortunately, some here think that mindlessly worshiping anyone with a “D” after their name somehow changes things.
As we have seen, many dems, especially in the south, actually dance for the republicans.
Those that criticize you here for bringing up legitimate issues about the democratic party are actually in the minority here, but they are just like atrio’s “101st Keyboarding Bridgade”, mindlessly pounding out posts – usually without even fully reading the statements that they imagine as attacking the good guys.
Don’t let them intimidate you – most that read these forums know mindless drivel from trolls or small-minded folks that think they represent the democratic party.
I also that that enabling treason, war crimes, and crimes against humanity are bad things and that we need to hold some feet to the fire.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:21 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
He didn’t want to give a direct answer (as Obama did). So he gave a bullshit “joke” answer, ignored the context of tax policy and reframed it as a “quality of life” issue. In short, he completely avoided answering the question.
Ralph, Ralph, Ralph….it is so easy for a Democrat to pin that income number down because there are LOTS of folks who make less than 200 grand, many more so than make more. And Obama is willing to take the rich folks money away and give it to the multitudes of poorer folk.
But is appealing to that class envy courageous? C’mon.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:23 pmWith MCCain, humor is used to deflect reality.
Andrea Mitchell on ‘Press The Meat’ said that Obama’s people think that McCain cheated by hearing the questions given Obama and therefore was better prepared to answer than Obama.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:23 pmNo. 16
WARREN: Welcome back to the Saddleback Civil Forum on the presidency. In this last section, I want us to talk about America’s responsibility to the rest of the world. We are the most blessed nation in the world, and we’re blessed to be a blessing, to whom much is given, much is required. So let me – let’s just go down some of the issues, international issues. First thing, let’s just talk about war. As an American, what’s worth dying for? What’s worth having sacrifice of the American lives for?
OBAMA: Well, obviously American freedom, American lives, America’s national interests. …
…
WARREN: Welcome back to Saddleback’s Civil Forum on the Presidency, and we are here with Sen. John McCain.
John, these last questions are about America’s responsibility to the world. We are without a doubt the most blessed nation in the world. We are blessed to be a blessing, and the Bible says to whom much is given much has been required. So I want to talk about what is our stewardship to everybody else, and let’s first talk about freedom and war. As an American, what is worth dying for, and what is worth committing American lives for?
MCCAIN: Freedom — our national security, our security as a nation. …
ok, that works…
…
i can’t do any more… too tiring… (you’re welcome)
the transcript does show that warren twisted some of the questions, but it was the video that showed the blatant cheating by mcMAVERICK… OBAMA played by the rules – “no stumping” – and mcTOOL was allowed to stump through it all…
nite all…
August 17th, 2008 at 10:28 pmZooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi,
Telling jokes like that is McCain’s defense mechanism. He’s avoiding the issue, and you lap it up as folksy and charming.
You voted for Bush at least once, didn’t you?
Sigh. No.
Bush the Elder in 88. Perot in 92 and 96. Nader in 00. Some Third Party nobody in 04 because Nader didn’t make the ballot in Idaho.
Speaking of Idaho, is your thermonometer broke? I don’t long for January often but this is ridiculous…
August 17th, 2008 at 10:28 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Ralph, Ralph, Ralph….it is so easy for a Democrat to pin that income number down because there are LOTS of folks who make less than 200 grand, many more so than make more.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
And yet, Obama did his homework and he knew the number more closely than did McJoker.
“[I]t’s so easy for a Democrat to pin that income number down because there are LOTS of folks who make less than 200 grand…”
Why is that easier for a Democrat?
August 17th, 2008 at 10:31 pmKeltoi,
If we didn’t currently have $600 Billion annual deficits, then we would not have to raise anyone’s taxes. We don’t do it just for kicks. In 2000, there was no talk of raising anyone’s taxes. The only concern was what to do with no much surplus. It was Clinton that gave us the surplus and your crowd that gave us the TRILLIONS of dollars in deficits.
Who do you suggest we tax? The middle class? Because the poor ain’t got it. How about the corporations? How about stopping $175 Billion per year in corporate welfare?
August 17th, 2008 at 10:31 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
——————————————————————————–
ralph the wonder llama Says:
He didn’t want to give a direct answer (as Obama did). So he gave a bullshit “joke” answer, ignored the context of tax policy and reframed it as a “quality of life” issue. In short, he completely avoided answering the question.
Ralph, Ralph, Ralph….it is so easy for a Democrat to pin that income number down because there are LOTS of folks who make less than 200 grand, many more so than make more. And Obama is willing to take the rich folks money away and give it to the multitudes of poorer folk.
But is appealing to that class envy courageous? C’mon.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
What the fu(k is with this “give it away” to the poor ?
The US is in debt , what , $500 billion dollars , thanks to Chimpy the Wonder Monkey ?
Kelt boy is now referring to Obama as if the man is the modern-day Robin Hood ; still makes him better than McDepends’ Sheriff of Nottingham ………….
August 17th, 2008 at 10:32 pmMike Gravel on think youth talking about where all the moneys gone
August 17th, 2008 at 10:33 pmKeltoi,
It’s not often Moscow hits 104 degrees…but I still don’t long for January, especially this last January.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:33 pmMCMetal Says:
Kelt boy is now referring to Obama as if the man is the modern-day Robin Hood ; still makes him better than McDepends’ Sheriff of Nottingham ………….
August 17th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
**snort**
August 17th, 2008 at 10:35 pmZooey Says:
“[I]t’s so easy for a Democrat to pin that income number down because there are LOTS of folks who make less than 200 grand…”
Why is that easier for a Democrat?
Because that is their constituency, Zoe. There was a thread the other day where McCain joked about how he “had to be against tax increases”, and he was pilloried here. Obama has to be for tax increases for those he deems rich – that is the base he must appeal to. Basic stuff.
For what it is worth, I am poor by Obama’s standards…I just don’t think it is the governments job to take money from one group and give it to another. I don’t think Jefferson would have thought so, either.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:38 pm“Appealing to class envy”? C’mon.
Is it not possible that Sen. Obama thinks excess profit (And let’s be clear. No American politician will ever propose a tax which actually lowers one’s standard of living or cripples one’s business.) should be regulated for the public good as sincerely as McCain thinks excess profit should be left in the hands of those taking the profit?
Normally, I would tend to agree with McCain but, as has happened many times in our past, the profit takers have overstepped their greed and need to be spanked. Especially the oil industry.
One doesn’t even need to get into punitive windfall taxes. Merely a proportional payment to the cost of a war that they have used to gain disproportionate profits. Even after reparations and refitting our military, there should be some left over to actually start dealing with energy in a rational way.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:39 pmThank’s again Katy! You’re a trooper.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:42 pmKeith Says:
Who do you suggest we tax? The middle class? Because the poor ain’t got it. How about the corporations? How about stopping $175 Billion per year in corporate welfare?
Fair point…I am not sure having the Feds pick up the tab for National Health care is going to make the deficit better. Rather the contrary.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:42 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
——————————————————————————–
Zooey Says:
“[I]t’s so easy for a Democrat to pin that income number down because there are LOTS of folks who make less than 200 grand…”
Why is that easier for a Democrat?
Because that is their constituency, Zoe. There was a thread the other day where McCain joked about how he “had to be against tax increases”, and he was pilloried here. Obama has to be for tax increases for those he deems rich – that is the base he must appeal to. Basic stuff.
For what it is worth, I am poor by Obama’s standards…I just don’t think it is the governments job to take money from one group and give it to another. I don’t think Jefferson would have thought so, either.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
You believe Jefferson would agree with the idiotic “fiscal cancervatives” and jackasses like yourself that the rich and a lot of big corporations should be given tax breaks while our entire military is deployed and seeing combat action ?
Not likely ……………..
August 17th, 2008 at 10:43 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
…I don’t think Jefferson would have thought so, either….
_____
Oh, pfui. If Jeffersaon had had ANY idea of the plutocracy funded by unAmerican multinational corporations, he’d've brought back the guillotine in a New York minute.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:44 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Because that is their constituency, Zoe. There was a thread the other day where McCain joked about how he “had to be against tax increases”, and he was pilloried here. Obama has to be for tax increases for those he deems rich – that is the base he must appeal to. Basic stuff.
For what it is worth, I am poor by Obama’s standards…I just don’t think it is the governments job to take money from one group and give it to another. I don’t think Jefferson would have thought so, either.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
All the Republicans you know up there are rich by McCain standards? Don’t be ridiculous. There are poor Republicans — even by our standards.
And, by the way, “President” McCain would be president for ALL Americans, not just the rich, so he has to know this stuff.
What am I saying…? He’ll be Bush III, of course he’ll only represent the rich.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:45 pmPete at 194:
As always, I agree with much of what you say. I guess the question is how you define “excess” profit.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:45 pmNite folks, have a good one.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:48 pmWTF? Who, especially Sen. Obama, said anything about redistribution of wealth? The U.S. government has to increase revenue and pay bills. Every honest American understands that reality and every patriotic American is willing to pay their share. The fact that most of those bills are to cover the cost of an idiotic foreign policy makes it stick in my craw but crying about “welfare” won’t make the problem go away.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:48 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keith Says:
Who do you suggest we tax? The middle class? Because the poor ain’t got it. How about the corporations? How about stopping $175 Billion per year in corporate welfare?
Fair point…I am not sure having the Feds pick up the tab for National Health care is going to make the deficit better. Rather the contrary.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
It will be the contrary if the GOP is allowed to run it .
The GOP are convinced and are trying to convince everyone that the government is incompetent ……..And they’re proving it , along with the Blue Dog Dems.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:50 pmTaking money from the rich and “giving it to the poor” is a right wing bugaboo, much like Obama being the “Anti-Christ” or the “War on Christmas.”
It gets the bedwetters in a tizzy.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:50 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Pete at 194:
As always, I agree with much of what you say. I guess the question is how you define “excess” profit.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
And, as always, it appears your innate need to see nobility in “conservatism” stops you just short of admitting the whole damn rightwing has been seized by reckless radicals who have profoundly screwed up everything they’ve touched.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:53 pmKeith Says:
Keltoi,
If we didn’t currently have $600 Billion annual deficits, then we would not have to raise anyone’s taxes. We don’t do it just for kicks. In 2000, there was no talk of raising anyone’s taxes. The only concern was what to do with no much surplus. It was Clinton that gave us the surplus and your crowd that gave us the TRILLIONS of dollars in deficits.
Our national debt hit the $1 trillion mark in Reagan’s first term. By the time Bush I left office, it was up to $4 trillion. After 8 years of Clinton, it was up to $5 trillion, BUT, and this is important, Clinton paid $1.5 trillion in interest on the debt he inherited.
King Georgie inherited a balanced budget with a $300 billion surplus, which could have gone to paying down the debt incurred during his father’s 12 years White House association, thus further reducing the interest that we taxpayers must pay, but NO, Baby Bush had to give it all away like some idiot mid-level manager trying to engender loyalty thru generous Christmas bonuses.
We are now rapidly approaching $10 trillion in debt, our economy has tanked, our dollar is worth pennies, and we are on our way to being owned by China.
Elect McCain, and ruin what’s left of our nation. Don’t believe me? Check it out, and just keep hitting refresh:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
PEACE
August 17th, 2008 at 10:54 pmAre you frickin’ serious?
Why should the fact that there are LOTS of folks who make less than 200 grand, many more so than make more make the question any easier for a Democrat than for a Republican?
Please explain that logic. I would think that the fact that there are LOTS of folks who make less than 200 grand — in fact, about 99% of the population — should make it a pretty easy call for anyone, regardless of political party.
And your ridiculous claim And Obama is willing to take the rich folks money away and give it to the multitudes of poorer folk is just absurd, way beneath your usual reasoning.
All citizens owe their fair share to the government to provide for services essential to the common good. For the past 7 years, the burden of funding those services (which include national defense) has been slowly shifted onto the backs of the middle and lower classes, so that the rich could make more money. What wasn’t collected in tax receipts was made up for in borrowing.
Meanwhile, the gap between rich and poor has been growing steadily. In fact, Keltoi, we have seen an massive redistribution of wealth over the past seven years — it’s just been redistributed upwards. And the Bush economy is the result. Like it? If so, vote for McCain. He’s promising four more years of Bush economic policies.
“Class envy”? You sound like a troll. You’re better than that.
You wanna talk about “courage”? How “courageous was it of McCain to shout stump speech platitudes like “Drill here, drill now!” or “Life begins at conception” in front of a megachurch audience of Orange County evangelicals?
Give me a break.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:55 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Keith Says:
Who do you suggest we tax? The middle class? Because the poor ain’t got it. How about the corporations? How about stopping $175 Billion per year in corporate welfare?
—————————————
Fair point…I am not sure having the Feds pick up the tab for National Health care is going to make the deficit better. Rather the contrary.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
——————————
Boy, not only did you totally not respond to my question—-but what you did say is totally bassackwards. Single-payer healthcare cuts administrative costs in half—saving us at least $250 Billion each and every year administratively alone. And covers the 47,000,000 who currently have nothing! That is why no other developed country in the world would ever want our system.
So, who do we tax? Or we could build a time machine, go back to 2000, and have $250 Billion annual surpluses again!
August 17th, 2008 at 10:57 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi at Night Says:
“Class envy”? You sound like a troll. You’re better than that.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
No he’s not ………………………
August 17th, 2008 at 11:01 pmUsually he is. In my opinion, anyway. It’s really disappointing to hear him talk this simplistically tonight.
Maybe I’m just in a bad mood.
August 17th, 2008 at 11:04 pmTaking money from the rich and “giving it to the poor” is a right wing bugaboo, much like Obama being the “Anti-Christ” or the “War on Christmas.”
It gets the bedwetters in a tizzy.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Very true. And yet, they don’t bat an eye at their tax dollars going to kill foreigners. How can anyone shrug off a trillion plus spent to kill Muslims, and begrudge one month’s expenditure on “social programs”, and still be human?
Seriously. Sane, healthy, humans are social animals. Since society is our habitat it’s in our nature to devote nearly as much effort to society as we devote to ourselves. Because, duh! If society suffers? So do we.
Since the Reichwingers suffer from some major flaw that renders them incapable of understanding this, and that our natural habitat is equally important, they should be assigned a new species name. They sully the name homo sapiens every time they start talking.
August 17th, 2008 at 11:04 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
What? Sorry, I was busy clinging to my gun.
You, and Ernest Borgnine?
Don’t forget to clean up after “target practice.”
August 17th, 2008 at 11:08 pmAnd police the area, for spent rounds.
August 17th, 2008 at 11:10 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Usually he is. In my opinion, anyway. It’s really disappointing to hear him talk this simplistically tonight.
Maybe I’m just in a bad mood.
August 17th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
I’m not defending Keltoi, but we have been having a hell of a heat wave. Maybe his synapses have fused.
August 17th, 2008 at 11:13 pmKaty, thank you so much for that compare and contrast! We appreciate all the time and effort you put in on our behalf!
I sincerely hope that Keith Olberman points out these inequities, McStain’s non-answer answers, but at least we can count on Jon Stewart to do a good “huh?” segment!
PEACE
August 17th, 2008 at 11:15 pm* * *
Despite Assurances, McCain Wasn’t in a ‘Cone of Silence’
By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
Published: August 17, 2008
ORLANDO, Fla. — Senator John McCain was not in a so-called cone of silence on Saturday night while his rival, Senator Barack Obama, was being interviewed at the Saddleback Church in California.
The McCain campaign, which flew here Sunday from California, said Mr. McCain was in his motorcade on the way to the church as Mr. Obama was being interviewed by the Rev. Rick Warren.
The matter is of interest because Mr. McCain, who followed Mr. Obama’s hourlong appearance in the forum, was asked virtually the same questions as Mr. Obama. Mr. McCain’s performance was well received, raising speculation among some viewers, especially supporters of Mr. Obama, that he was not as isolated during the Obama interview as Mr. Warren implied.
Mr. Warren, pastor of Saddleback, had assured the audience while he was interviewing Mr. Obama that “we have safely placed Senator McCain in a cone of silence” and that he could not hear the questions.
[...]
Interviewed Sunday on CNN, Mr. Warren seemed surprised to learn that Mr. McCain was not in the building during the Obama interview. A spokeswoman for Mr. McCain said he was en route to the church.
Nicolle Wallace, a spokeswoman for Mr. McCain, said on Sunday night that Mr. McCain had not heard the broadcast of the event while in his motorcade and heard none of the questions. “The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,” Ms. Wallace said.
wow.
and “Warren seemed surprised”? REALLY?
…
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/us/politics/18mccain.html?ref=politics
really glad i thought to check the googlenews page before shutting down… i will sleep better tonight…
it ain’t just the bloggers anymore… the whole world knows…
the holy set-up…
August 17th, 2008 at 11:27 pmkaty gets a standing ovation for her above-and-beyond the call of duty posts.
Yay!!!
August 17th, 2008 at 11:27 pmSecond that.
August 17th, 2008 at 11:30 pmyou’re welcome, spencers mom, and pete…
it worked out well that i was feeling lazy tonight…
but that’s all…
g’nite all.
August 17th, 2008 at 11:31 pmand zooey, and ralph!
nite!
August 17th, 2008 at 11:31 pmKaty, you saved the best for last. I read that NYT link you posted on McCain’s “cone of silence” and mentioned it to my wife. She was astonished.
When I got to the quote from the McCain spokeswoman about “a former prisoner of war” she said it sounded like The Big Lebowski, where the millionaire Jeff Lebowski makes a big deal out of all of his achievements despite having lost both legs in battle, and it turns out that he’s just a pathetic loser who’s all bluster, living on his late wife’s money.
McCain is living on his past as a heroic POW.
August 17th, 2008 at 11:40 pmcan’t resist one last post:
Warren: McCain did not violate ‘cone of silence’
CNN Political Ticker – 4 hours ago
Warren and McCain camp insist the presumptive Republican nominee had no edge over Obama by going second. (CNN) – Sometimes you just have to take it on faith …
Leaks in McCain’s Cone of Silence?
Huffington Post, NY – 2 hours ago
I must admit that listening to McCain answer Pastor Rick Warren’s questions so quickly and glibly last night at the Saddleback Faith Forum made me wonder if …
haven’t read the links…
a call from my son kept me up, till now…
August 17th, 2008 at 11:50 pmThe video on you tube I bookmarked after posting here concerning McCain offering his wife for a topless contest is coming up: NO LONGER AVAILABLE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjtQGAtbe04&feature=related
Are these bastards allowed to pick and choose what we are to see?
August 18th, 2008 at 12:05 amhad enough Says:
Are these bastards allowed to pick and choose what we are to see?
August 18th, 2008 at 12:05 am
Um….yes.
They gave themselves the privilege.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:07 amnow the link works clicking it from the post….
rant over.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:09 amNo problem, had enough. Sometimes mysterious things happen to political web videos/posts/commentaries. It’s forgivable to react a little defensively. I have a feeling we will see the web-warfare get a lot uglier than trolling. It’s just a matter of time before political blogs, in particular, start getting hacked and shut down in bot attacks.
Heck! Every time I type Flippy McSpin I expect to get quoted as an example of a “far left loon who hates war heroes”, by some Reichwing crusader.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:30 amMaybe youtube links do not work from bookmark sites…
I blog on online newspapers in other states and the crap that is out there.. the idiocy, racists, and now some are down on Obama because the polls, generated by land line phones are not a landslide in his favor.
Idiots.. all of them.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:36 ampete
just figured out book marked you tube links will not work directly from the bookmark.
Have to remember titles and go from there.
One thing for sure most states eventually will see that link of McCain offering up his wife in their comment section in major newspapers when I get done.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:44 amjust figured out book marked you tube links will not work directly from the bookmark.
Are you using IE or another browser? I have no problems with Firefox.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:14 amI just followed a link to this site from McCain’s website. He is giving away “points” for stuff if a person posts his message on liberal sites. Truthfully not a bad idea, but it ticks me off! I would encourage Obama supporters to click on any ad for McCain you see on the internet. The more hits his ads receive the more it will cost him to post ads (at least through google, it is the way they calculate advertising cost). If we all click on a bunch of his adds we can help to eat away at his capital. Spread the word!
August 18th, 2008 at 1:18 am______
MCMetal Says:
For someone who claims you aren’t partial to one side or the other , all I see is your constant critical remarks/comments of Dems and of liberals earlier ; that sure as hell doesn’t seem to me as if you’re as open-minded as you claim to be……..
August 17th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
______
There was a time when I would have laughed at the suggestion that I would ever vote Republican. It used to be true that the Democratic Party was the party of the people. Then the Democratic Party became the party of the far left. That’s why I criticize the Democratic Party. In addition, there seems to be an unusual number of people here who think corruption will be a thing of the past if a Dem wins the Whitehouse. I agree there will be much less corruption in an Obama administration than in Bush’s, but corruption has flourished no matter which party is in power. It’s foolish to suggest that voting in Dems will make that problem go away. The crooked politicians will just have a D after their names instead of an R.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:07 am______
MCMetal Says:
They’re posing “character questions” to an adulterer and supporter of the worst and most dishonest president and administration in US history ?
Should have been categorized as “lacking character” questions……
August 17th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
______
I didn’t defend McCain’s character. I simply pointed out that there isn’t any significant difference in the way the question was phrased.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:10 am______
Keith Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left,
You want us to believe you are voting for Obama after all the posts you have made here?!? What a load of BS. I think you are closer to Attila The Hun on the political spectrum.
August 17th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
______
Believing it would require the ability to understand that not everyone who supports the candidate that you do believes everything that you do. Sorry if you can’t make that leap. You know that I disagree with you on issues like the acceptability of abortion (though I don’t advocate making it illegal), gay marriage, patriotism etc. On the major issues, I support similar policies as you do, differing in degree. I support increased funding for education and healthcare. But I think govt does a lousy job at both and taking healthcare completely away from the private sector and giving it totally to govt is asking for a new and improved money sucking hole. I don’t think we had any business in Iraq, nor should we be doing any saber rattling regarding Iran or Russia. I think there are radical Muslims who are a danger to our country and cannot be ignored. I think most Muslims are decent people who just want to live their lives in peace like I do. I think we need to help those who are unable to help themselves. Those who will never be able to help themselves deserve our support for the duration of their lives. Those who can learn to support themselves should do so even if they have to be pushed to do it. Those who choose to break the rules of society and prey on others deserve to lose their freedom, permanently if they repeatedly break the rules. If those were Attila’s views, then I’m right there with him. ;)
August 18th, 2008 at 2:43 am______
MCMetal Says:
——————————————————————————–
What in the fu(king hell is with Warren and all these religious questions to Obama ?
Religious persecution ?
Where ????????
“The war on Christmas” ?
Gimme a break ; and why in the hell is a friggin Pastor asking presidential candidates any questions (and repeating verses directly from the Bible) when we supposedly live in a secular nation ???????????
August 17th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
______
Obama is a Christian and he chose to participate in the forum. He was free to decline just as you were free to ignore it. Fortunately, Obama doesn’t feel the need to disregard his Christianity because he is a politician. The questions weren’t asked as a prerequisite to being able to be elected president. That would have been illegal. The questions were asked to help people decide for whom they wanted to vote. That is perfectly legal. Our govt is not to promote a particular religion. That is a far cry from living in a secular nation.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:59 amRip, Issac Hayes:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Music/08/10/hayes.obit/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
August 18th, 2008 at 5:43 amI think what McCain doesn’t understand is that the middle class doesn’t just want handouts like beggars. Middle class people like working for their money. What they want is balance. They want it to be fair. It just proves that McCain thinks he is better than middle class people when he suggests tax presents. Here take 7,000 dollars and shut up. No how about you lose the same 40% of your income?
August 18th, 2008 at 6:16 amis it just me or, are the waahhhpublicans trotting out jindal because he’s the only waaahhpublican person of color they could find? seems like he appeared out of nowhere once obama presumeably won the primary
August 18th, 2008 at 6:58 amBelligerant arrogance, nothing more.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:59 amI didn’t watch much of that Saddleback joke, but someone needs go thru the transcripts to count how many times McCain says “my friends” or “my friend”.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:43 amIt’s his version of Bushs’ “in other words”.
I also noticed that he said “I don’t want to raise taxes on anyone.” I just want to take out the government credit card and charge away… and give it to the next two generations. Or when he is “forced” to raise taxes it will be too late, and we’ll have him there to spin some other excuse—blame Carter or something. We have to keep him out of White House!
August 18th, 2008 at 10:30 amIs this $5 million stuff from McCain really supposed to be funny? Yeah, he’s a riot, Alice.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:37 pmMCCAIN: I think that Rich should be defined by a home, a good job, an education, and the ability to hand to our children a more prosperous and safer world than the one that we inherited.
This is corporatist McCain’s way of saying he supports limiting what once was the definition of the baseline American Dream to the “Rich”, a class he defines as making “more than five million”.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:45 pmUptight left Says:
It used to be true that the Democratic Party was the party of the people. Then the Democratic Party became the party of the far left. That’s why I criticize the Democratic Party.
You are the only person in the world who thinks the Democratic Party has moved to the left. The last one thousand times I have read anyone on the subject, they all agree that the Dem Party moved to the center or center right after losing in 1980, 84, and 88. Bill Clinton was a New Democrat, the Third Way, and Triangulation. The DNC was downright conservative compared to the wishes of the majority of Americans. I really disliked Terry McAuliffe.
Do you think Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer, and Dean are a move to the far left? They are the leaders of the party. Rush Limbaugh mioght say they are to the left, but even he does not believe it. Once you have called Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer, and Dean “The Far Left”, what is there left to describe the many millions of Americans who are to the left of them? Did you know that 65% of Americans think we should have single-payer government-run healthcare? Did you know the majority think we should spend less on the military? Etc., etc.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:49 pm______
Keith Says:
——————————————————————————–
Upright left Says:
It used to be true that the Democratic Party was the party of the people. Then the Democratic Party became the party of the far left. That’s why I criticize the Democratic Party.
You are the only person in the world who thinks the Democratic Party has moved to the left. The last one thousand times I have read anyone on the subject, they all agree that the Dem Party moved to the center or center right after losing in 1980, 84, and 88. Bill Clinton was a New Democrat, the Third Way, and Triangulation. The DNC was downright conservative compared to the wishes of the majority of Americans. I really disliked Terry McAuliffe.
Do you think Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer, and Dean are a move to the far left? They are the leaders of the party. Rush Limbaugh mioght say they are to the left, but even he does not believe it. Once you have called Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer, and Dean “The Far Left”, what is there left to describe the many millions of Americans who are to the left of them? Did you know that 65% of Americans think we should have single-payer government-run healthcare? Did you know the majority think we should spend less on the military? Etc., etc.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
______
Perhaps my comment wasn’t clear enough when I said the Dems used to be the party of the people, but then they moved too far left. The years that you noted were exactly what I was talking about. As for Clinton, he was hampered by the Dems having lost Congress. Do you seriously think his actions would have been the same if he’d had a Dem congress?
Reid isn’t far left; Pelosi would be if she didn’t have so much money at stake. As for Dean, his views seem to depend upon what office he is seeking.
Those who are left of the far left Dems are generally called socialists. I’m certainly not saying there are no conservative Dems left. They are regularly blasted on this site.
It’s easy to understand why people are desperate enough to vote for a single payer system. We all know people who haven’t received the care they need because they don’t have insurance. I would be all for a single payer system if it came with stringent safeguards and stiff penalties for anyone found abusing the system. The massive system it would require would provide amazing new opportunities for those who are less than honest and those who seek govt jobs because they know it’s almost impossible to get rid of them once they get in.
I think we should spend less on the military. That would be accomplished be getting out of Iraq. Wanting to spend less on the military doesn’t mean people want to weaken our nation militarily or that people have any less respect and support for our soldiers.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:03 am