Global warming deniers forced to cancel meeting due to Tropical Storm Fay.
By on Aug 18th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Global warming deniers forced to cancel meeting due to Tropical Storm Fay.
This week, Americans for Prosperity (AFP) planned to have town hall meetings in Ft. Myers and West Palm Beach, FL. As the Wonk Room’s Brad Johnson notes, “AFP is a front group for the right-wing pollution company Koch Industries, with an agenda of attacking ‘global warming alarmism‘ and promoting increased offshore drilling.” In an ironic twist, AFP has canceled its meetings because of Tropical Storm Fay. From a message on the group’s website:
Ft. Myers and West Palm Beach Town Hall Meetings Rescheduled
The August 19th Ft. Myers town hall and August 21st West Palm Beach town hall will be rescheduled as a result of Tropical Storm Fay. We apologize for any inconvenience.
More on how global warming intensifies tropical storms here.
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Global warming deniers forced to cancel meeting due to Tropical Storm Fay.
– - That really blows.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:35 pmIt’s God’s way of punishing those evil doers for their sinful beliefs!!!! Bwa ha ha ha!
August 18th, 2008 at 6:38 pmScaryBrownHusseinChick (ThinkOutsideTheBush) Says
August 18th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
No, no, no — the naysayers are NEVER sinful! Just ask them!
August 18th, 2008 at 6:41 pmMaybe Daryll will have the scoop on what has been going on in Florida recently that has god all worked up.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:46 pmIf a thread about a court ruling (activist judges) that decreed that doctors (socialist health care) had to treat gay patients (’nuff said) couldn’t draw Daryll out of his closet today, I doubt a global warming story will do the trick.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:50 pmAmericans for Piss Poority.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:55 pmGod was clearly targeting goon_golly.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:55 pmYou simply can’t make this stuff up…
PEACE
August 18th, 2008 at 6:55 pmRalph,
You are right (per usual). I just miss some of Daryll’s, errr…… unique perspectives.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:55 pmWe all do, upside. (sniff) We all do…
August 18th, 2008 at 6:56 pmBLASPHEMOUS RALPH, BLASPHEMOUS!! REPENT!! SAVE HER, FOR MY JEBUS WILL ENTER YOUR JUDGMENT IN THE NAME SIN!
August 18th, 2008 at 6:57 pmThis is funny. It would be like a pro-gun rally being postponed because the organizer got shot. (Not that that’s ever happened, but it would be funny.)
August 18th, 2008 at 6:58 pmOil prices have been trending down, along with consumption, for more than three months. GM is shopping off the Hummer division with no takers. The new paradigm of $100.00+ oil is driving the entire world away from the wasteful burning of petroleum.
Why do we need to radically expand our drilling Today? What’s the rush. Once upon a time,those who called themselves conservatives, would have found it to be reckless to give out additional leases. And the panicky hyperbole of the GOP would have earned them immediate dismissal from the conservative movement. Too bad the GOP has been seized by power-mad, God-plagued, morons.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:00 pmThanks, McWars. That actually cheered me up a little.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:05 pm“Never under estimate the power of denial”
Quote from American Beauty.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:13 pmWell since they don’t believe scientists why do they believe the storm will hit Ft. Myers and West Palm Beach. Just the usual right wing cherry picking.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:15 pmpete said:
Why do we need to radically expand our drilling Today? What’s the rush.
The rush is because oil executives don’t have quite enough money.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
August 18th, 2008 at 7:16 pmJust so TP is fair and balanced.
http://perspectives.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=176946&forum_id=73
Some of the quotes in the article are so funny, you gotta read it. Like when the guy tries to stop his friends from panicking by saying “Don’t worry, Doomsday is still coming.”
The fringers of both sides of this debate about GW and its causes never cease to entertain.
(Keltoi gets flamed in 3…2…1…)
August 18th, 2008 at 7:34 pmKoch Oil.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:42 pmOne of the best arguments for nationalizing the whole goddam industry.
They own all or part of all the congressional delegations from Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Colorado and northeast Texas……
Privately held.
Break ‘em!!!
I wonder if the Flat Earth Society’s lodge is available.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:42 pmOT
August 18th, 2008 at 7:57 pmCindy McCain is NOT an only child, an heiress. She has a half-sister, Kathleen, (same father, different mother) and Kathleen was raised by her mother after Cindy’s father left her for Cindy’s mother. Kathleen was left $10,000 after her father died and her children (his grandchildren got nothing) Cindy got it all and she continues to say she was an only child, ignoring her half-sister.
They are so fay…double snap…8-))
August 18th, 2008 at 8:02 pm#20, tokin,
Exactly! If oil is a strategic commodity requiring the loss of blood and gold to secure it in a foriegn nation then we should all push for a nationalization of the industry that phucks us and our national security into the ground everyday while raping our pocketbooks!!!!!!!!!!!
August 18th, 2008 at 8:07 pmClearly, Pat Robertson is falling down on the job.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:09 pmGlobal Warming deniers are so passé (most believing Republicans & Fox ‘News’). They don’t even realize how out of touch they are. They are living 20 years in the past, yet they think they know what’s going on! Banish global warming deniers to some melting island; Put them with the polar bears fighting for survival! Let’s see who wins!
August 18th, 2008 at 8:18 pmThe prophets are but wind and the word is not in them; so let what they say be done to them.”
Jeremiah 5:13
Robertson, Hagee, and Daryll ARE in the Bible. WOW.”
August 18th, 2008 at 8:24 pmYeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh… because there were no hurricanes before Global Warming… stupid article.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:36 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Just so TP is fair and balanced.
http://perspectives.com/ forums/ view_topic.php?id=176946&forum_id=73
(Keltoi gets flamed in 3…2…1…)
August 18th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
_______
Except it’s not particularly balanced since blizzards and more frequent snowfall are one of the predicted consequences of climate change, since higher temperatures=higher atmospheric instability=more snowstorms.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:45 pmSorry but I have to agree with Foxdie. This thread is trying way too hard and just makes TP look stupid. Leave the overreaching melodramatic theatrics the Repubs. Global warming may have just as much to do with Fay as the Republican grandstanding in the dark had to do with oil prices.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:46 pmI must disagree, tbone. The delicious irony of a meeting of GW deniers canceling their plans because of a weather forecast is indicative of the total lack of intellectual honesty from the Reichwing.
And I think it’s important to take every opportunity to demonstrate the lack of integrity displayed by those who propound the belief that investing in protecting the environment is optional, or damaging to our prosperity.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:54 pmSure, there were hurricanes before climate change. The difference is the intensity and severity of the storms.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:58 pmNote the difference between Toasterhead and Dr. Matt at 29 and 31. Which one is more persuasive, do you think? More in the spirit of American democracy? Which face of the Left do you guys want to present? One attracts and invites discourse, one is pathetic schoolyard garbage, and not even very creative garbage at that.
How the Left needs the Toasterheads and how it is cursed by the Matts.
BTW, that site is a spoof, but there were several global warming conferences cancelled or postphoned due to severe cold/snow last year. All the rabid potty mouths in the world can’t deny that.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:10 pmHow hard are they trying?
What I got from this is that it’s pretty funny that meetings scheduled for deniers are cancelled because of extreme weather.
It’s not TP’s fault if you’re trying to read too much into it.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:12 pmOne must admit there is a trap in thinking in terms of individual storms or weather events. An atmosphere which is being destabilized will cause nearly as many record lows as record highs. Even localized glaciation is a distinct possibility.
When the discussion is kept on global trends, where it belongs, the evidence is overwhelming. Virtually every prediction of the last 30 years is happening. And they are happening at a faster rate than feared. There really is no credible dispute to the fact that human generated CO2 is increasing temps. Every dissenting voice can be written off because of their financial, political and religious motivation. And they deserve every bit of ridicule we can heap upon them.
But the point I just find hilarious is that these morons are showing their respect for the exact science they were meeting to “debunk”. And I hope everyone hammers them on it every chance that comes up.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:14 pmZooey Says:
Sure, there were hurricanes before climate change. The difference is the intensity and severity of the storms.
True. Last year was a very quiet season, and this one is not exactly roaring out of the gate, knock on wood.
I don’t do GW threads often because, like O’Reilly threads, they tend to inspire hissy fits like 31. I only delved into this one because it seems so egregious to post this article when the exact opposite thing happened over the winter and TP said nothing.
Toasterhead: Is there any weather event that can’t be explained by GW? It seems like no matter what the weather does, it is attributable to GW.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:16 pmKeltoi,
The left does not move in lock step like the right, thank goodness.
Maybe you will accept being told how to express yourself, and that’s fine. We won’t.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:16 pmIs getting flamed your new game, Keltoi?
I thought you were okay. Lately it seems like you’re just here to annoy people.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:16 pmQuick poll. How many “leftists” are here?
Seriously, there is no “left” in Today’s America. Just a radical right and the opposition. It’s only far-right thugs like Bill0 who perpetuate the myth of an American left.
Here’s a newsflash: There is no American Left. Get over it.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:18 pmKeltoi,
I think TP was trying to be a bit snarky by pointing out such irony. Whatever.
Think about our winters for the last 8-10 years, that’s climate change. You can’t deny that.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:19 pmZooey Says:
Keltoi,
Maybe you will accept being told how to express yourself, and that’s fine. We won’t.
Ummm…what? You totally lost me here.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:19 pmVery true, pete.
I should have put “left” in quotation marks. Our left is pretty moderate compared to some countries.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:21 pmCase in point. Just here to piss people off.
To those whose curiosity only goes so far, it probably does seem like “no matter what the weather does, it is attributable to GW”.
I have a friend who’s a big GW denier, and he still can’t get it through his head that increased ice cover in the interior of Antarctica, for instance, is consistent with global warming because, Antarctica being one of the driest places on earth, increased snow cover is the result of increased humidity, which is a consequence of rising global temperatures.
But because he doesn’t understand the fundamentals of atmospheric moisture (whether he’s unable to or unwilling to, I’m not sure), he still thinks it makes a good “Gotcha” example of no matter what the weather does, it is attributable to GW.
Are you really lining up with my friend, Keltoi?
August 18th, 2008 at 9:23 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Ummm…what? You totally lost me here.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
You don’t read your own stuff?
“I don’t do GW threads often because, like O’Reilly threads, they tend to inspire hissy fits like 31.”
August 18th, 2008 at 9:23 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Is getting flamed your new game, Keltoi?
I thought you were okay. Lately it seems like you’re just here to annoy people.
Nah. Like I said, I don’t do GW threads because there is no toleration – none – of any thought other than the absolute certainty that GW is happening and that man is causing it (which I don’t think we can know with certainty.)
So I broke my own Troll rule for acceptable engagement with my Progressive friends by getting on this one, I will leave it to Dr. Matt to set the standard for civil behavior.
K-Out
August 18th, 2008 at 9:25 pmWell, you have a point in that we have little tolerance for dishonesty in the debate, or for poor reasoning. Most contrary viewpoints incorporate some measure of one or both of those elements.
You for instance, this evening seem to lean on poor reasoning, which I find unusual for you. That’s why I wondered if you’re just here to tweak noses for the fun of it.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:29 pmMore local weather events? Sigh.
Here’s the deal. Atmospheric CO2 is at historic record highs and rising. Average global temps are at historic record highs and rising. Both are going up in proportion to measured human emissions and each other. There is no credible dispute of those three facts.
When one gets to more speculative science? Things get really scary. There is considerable evidence in the geologic record to suggest that, when temps and CO2 reach a critical “tipping point”, there is a rapid, cascading, release of trapped greenhouse gasses and catastrophic rise in temperature. This phenomenon is implicated in the greatest mass extinction event in the world’s history.
And none of that even touches the other toxins we spew out. Doesn’t it seem insane to argue about solid science and move on to how we can mitigate the damage?
August 18th, 2008 at 9:29 pmIt seems insane to me, pete, but I’m sure if you’ve got some financial interest at stake, or if you’re just irrationally afraid of mythical “liberals” using this crisis to further their “socialist agenda”, then it might seem very appealing to argue about solid science.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:34 pmPete:
I agree with the second part of your post (32), but I just don’t think this is the best opportunity to do that. There is still some uncertainty regarding the relationship between storm frequency and intensity and global climate change. There is variability within and between models, and I don’t believe a consensus on this point has been reached (see some of the links below). Thus, prematurely linking the two to stick it to the Reichwing runs the risk of being confused for “crying wolf” or “sky is falling hysteria”. As a professor of biology, I see students tune out good scientific conclusions because they are tired of the din of opinions thrown about in the political sphere. I spend a good portion of my lectures trying to help students discern the quality science from the junk/opinion. Personally, I would prefer to be more cautious in some instances. It is not like there isn’t plenty of other evidence to call upon to make the point about GCC – [CO2], melting ice, changing species distributions, earlier reproduction in spring, etc.
Just my $0.02.
http://sunburn.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/Landsea/pielkeetalBAMS05.pdf
http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/publications/special/2005.36_comment.pdf
ftp://texmex.mit.edu/pub/emanuel/PAPERS/Emanuel_etal_2008.pdf
August 18th, 2008 at 10:00 pmK-Out
August 18th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
What’s that supposed to be, like “Seacrest out”? Out of what?
August 18th, 2008 at 10:04 pmtbone, I won’t argue with your reasoning. The science should guide the conclusions we draw, and as you say, drawing a direct relationship between climate change and a particular weather pattern is not easily defensible.
Thanks for your 2 cents.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:10 pmGlobal climate change is a fabrication of the democrats. They thrive on stressing out Americans so that they can appear to be the ones to come to the rescue.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:10 pmI asked God about global warming.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:14 pmHe told me he was going to teach the deniers a thing or two.
And then, we have a vivid illustration of the kind of sentiment the reality-based community has to deal with on a regular basis.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:15 pmRRally Says:
Global climate change is a fabrication of the democrats. They thrive on stressing out Americans so that they can appear to be the ones to come to the rescue.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
I’m sorry, but that’s just stupid. On so many levels.
For one thing, you are making the common right-wing mistake of interchanging “democrats” and “liberals” in effort to blame either for any absurdities committed by the other.
As for “stressing out Americans,” are you familar with the term “The Nexus of Politics and Terror”? If you research it, I think you’ll find that the Republican-controlled administration used fear to distract the public from their own mistakes or wrong-doing more than a dozen times.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:18 pmRRally:
August 18th, 2008 at 10:34 pmI would be happy to look at any empirically-derived, peer-reviewed data you have demonstrating that global climate change isn’t occurring.
i’m not a gw denier btw…but global temps this year have dropped significantly. twelve months of colder temps does not make a trend but still…also ocean temps have dropped to a 7 year low or something like that…just saying…
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/january-2008-4-sources-say-globally-cooler-in-the-past-12-months/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aU.evtnk6DPo&refer=worldwide
August 18th, 2008 at 10:47 pmInteresting stuff Freakaloin. It’ll be fun to watch that (and the political ramifications from it) over the next decade.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:26 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Toasterhead: Is there any weather event that can’t be explained by GW? It seems like no matter what the weather does, it is attributable to GW.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
_____
Hot hail. That shit is all courtesy of Ming the Merciless.
But seriously, there’s a difference between “attributable to” and “connected to,” and I try to avoid saying the former. The number of factors behind any specific weather event make it impossible to say “global warming is the cause of storm X.” However, atmospheric instability caused by higher temperatures can lead to increased precipitation, as detailed in WG II.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:42 pmBWA effing BWAHAHAHAHAHHA~~!~~
August 19th, 2008 at 12:00 amWhy hasn’t St D asked God to halt the storm so his buddies could slam margaritas and play with themselves?
August 19th, 2008 at 12:02 amRRally Says:
Global climate change is a fabrication of the democrats. They thrive on stressing out Americans so that they can appear to be the ones to come to the rescue.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
_______
Oh yes – just like that whole “War on Terror” thing the Democrats concocted. Right?
August 19th, 2008 at 12:06 amShort term fluctuations in temperature are part of the greenhouse effect. The problem is that increasing the greenhouse effect increases the heat retained by the Earth. This heat is what drives weather. Hot or cold.
It’s exactly the same as running in insulated clothing. As your body heats, it sweats, and tries to cool itself. This can keep up, and even make one feel cool, until the heat created through exercise and trapped by the insulation exceeds the body’s ability to self regulate. Then our runner collapses from heat stroke.
In the case of global climate, the processes are different but they share some similarities. Human activities continue to add to the Earth’s insulation. And the Earth, being a dynamic system like an animal’s body, deals with the extra heat like a sweating human.
The Earth’s air and sea currents pump heat from warm areas to cold areas. On their journey, the warmed fluids pick up more moisture. When they reach the cold poles? They go about their contradictory jobs of melting ice and dropping snow. It would seem that there’s a great deal of resiliency built into the system. And there is.
The problem lies with those greenhouse gases, especially CO2. Remember those historically high levels? There is much evidence that high CO2 levels, usually attributed to times of extreme volcanic activity, have precipitated global disasters in the past. And some of those disasters were apparently caused by lower CO2 levels than those existing today.
That’s only one of the dangers. Another favorite argument of scoffers is that “plant’s like CO2″. There’s a big problem. First of all, we humans seem bent on deforesting the Earth much faster than increased growth can consume CO2. Except in the oceans. But, in the oceans, we are dealing with another dynamic.
Seawater can absorb CO2. This results in the formation of carbolic acid which actually lowers the pH of the ocean. This is a major disaster for sea life and it gets worse. The increased CO2 which is not converted to acid, along with human runoff, fuels algae “blooms” which can consume all the oxygen in the water and kill everything. This is the phenomenon responsible for “dead zones” one reads about from time to time.
So you see, human carbon emissions can kill us all without causing a climate disaster.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:01 ampete Says:
The problem lies with those greenhouse gases, especially CO2. Remember those historically high levels? There is much evidence that high CO2 levels, usually attributed to times of extreme volcanic activity, have precipitated global disasters in the past. And some of those disasters were apparently caused by lower CO2 levels than those existing today.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:01 am
Global disasters in the past, like the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, aka “The Day The Earth Farted,” in which a massive unexplained methane and CO2 release triggered a 9-degree rise in global temperatures and mass extinctions of land and sea creatures and that took 100,000 years for the Earth to recover to normal temperatures?
I hesitate to bring it up, of course, since the science deniers like to use it as a dubiously-logical argument that non-human causes have led to climate change in the past and therefore it is impossible for humans to be causing climate change now.
August 19th, 2008 at 7:41 amhussein toasterhead Says:
pete Says:
The problem lies with those greenhouse gases, especially CO2. Remember those historically high levels? There is much evidence that high CO2 levels, usually attributed to times of extreme volcanic activity, have precipitated global disasters in the past. And some of those disasters were apparently caused by lower CO2 levels than those existing today.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:01 am
Global disasters in the past, like the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, aka “The Day The Earth Farted,” in which a massive unexplained methane and CO2 release triggered a 9-degree rise in global temperatures and mass extinctions of land and sea creatures and that took 100,000 years for the Earth to recover to normal temperatures?
I hesitate to bring it up, of course, since the science deniers like to use it as a dubiously-logical argument that non-human causes have led to climate change in the past and therefore it is impossible for humans to be causing climate change now.
If the permafrost melts in the arctic area, Alaska, Canada, Siberia, etc, there are massive pockets of methane and co2 that will be released into the atmosphere increasing the affect
http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/prrl/2008-22.html
August 19th, 2008 at 8:39 am