Kristol Makes His Fourth Factual Error In His New York Times Column
Kristol Makes His Fourth Factual Error In His New York Times Column
Today in the New York print edition of the New York Times, columnist Bill Kristol attacks allegations that Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) may not have been in the “cone of silence” during Saturday’s Saddleback Civil Forum:
NBC’s Andrea Mitchell reported on “Meet the Press” that “the Obama people must feel that he didn’t do quite as well as they might have wanted to in that context. … What they’re putting out privately is that McCain may not have been in the cone of silence and may have had some ability to overhear what the questions were to Obama.”
That’s pretty astonishing, since there seems to be absolutely no basis for the charge. But the fact that Obama’s people made this suggestion means they know McCain outperformed him.
Kristol is wrong. In fact, the New York Times itself reports today that McCain “was not in a ‘cone of silence’ on Saturday night.” He was instead “in his motorcade on the way to the church” when Rev. Rick Warren was interviewing Obama.
Instead of issuing a correction to Kristol’s column, Tom Tomorrow notes that the Times has simply quietly revised it for the online and national print editions. The column now reads:
NBC’s Andrea Mitchell reported on “Meet the Press” that “the Obama people must feel that he didn’t do quite as well as they might have wanted to in that context. … What they’re putting out privately is that McCain … may have had some ability to overhear what the questions were to Obama.”
There’s no evidence that McCain had any such advantage. But the fact that Obama’s people made this suggestion means they know McCain outperformed him.
Perhaps the New York Times is too embarrassed to write a correction for another one of Kristol’s columns. This is the fourth factual error he has made since commencing his column in January. Here are the other three corrections. Unfortunately for Kristol, his Kristol Ball isn’t doing so well either.
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Republican Standard Operating Procedure:
1. Push out lies that scare the less informed and more fearful of the population (your base).
2. Depend on their ignorance and cowardice to prevent them from discovering the facts.
3. Make the incredibly moronic claim that somehow, despite all past evidence, Republicans are the ones to make you feel less afraid.
It only works on cowards because:
August 18th, 2008 at 10:45 amTerrorism only works on the terrified!
The repuke meme: lie, cheat, steal in the name of "country, patriotism and pride"
The morons don't understand hypocrisy or oxymoron very well, do they?
August 18th, 2008 at 10:46 amgood_golly2 Says:
This “you cheated, you cheated” whine coming from the Obama camp confirms for me that they know they lost.
- - If you support McCain's bankrupt ideas and warmongering approach to foreign policy, that makes you the real loser.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:46 amSince Kristol is usually wrong, at this point he should be paying the NYT's to work for them. BTW when has the truth ever been important to a Neocon, absolutely never. They just make up stuff as they go along.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:46 amgood_golly2 Says:
This “you cheated, you cheated” whine coming from the Obama camp confirms for me that they know they lost.
Stop being such a drama queen..
August 18th, 2008 at 10:48 amconfirms for me that they know they lost.
Cause you're a goddamn idiot.
BTW, if by "losing" an evangelical "debate" is "good" in your tiny head, then it's GREAT for us.
Who needs a bunch of lemmings standing on a cliff waiting for the "end of times?" I say, give paper sacks to cover their heads and let the kool aid start flowing, there's really no time to waste "friendsssss".
August 18th, 2008 at 10:49 amFlag, ignore, move on.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:50 amImagine being sissy enough to be afraid of all the things right wingers want us to be afraid of!
No wonder right wingers are always so scared!
They just don't know any better!
August 18th, 2008 at 10:52 amKristol wasn't hired by the NYT for his ability to be correct or factual. He's just anther famous blowhard.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:52 amKristol must be the NYT's token idiot. Why else would they continue to employ this embarassment to journalism?
http://progressiveworldreview.com
August 18th, 2008 at 10:54 amThw NYT only hired him to sell papers not reveal the truth, we all now neocons will lie,cheat and steal the W.H and will do in the name of democracy and freedom......
August 18th, 2008 at 10:58 amre: comment no. 1
What did Obama lose? Nothing.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:03 amWhat did mcsame lose? He never had the ability to reason or to think. He didn't lose that. He never had it. He doesn't have a sense of humor, so he didn't lose that. He has no ability to speak, so he didn't lose that, either. He has no presidential aura, so he didn't lose that, either. No, mcbush didn't lose anything at that.....er....ahem...."forum." He never had anything to begin with, so how could he lose anything.
Obama, on the other hand, won, if you want to call this any kind of contest where one loses and one wins, the admiration and respect of all intelligent people with his thoughtfulness, his ability to think through his answers to those "questions" put to him by a conservative right-wing, right-to-lifer "preacher."
So, gg, go stick your head back in the sand or that part of your body that will go unnamed, and continue to keep your mind closed to all that is going around you in the world of today. Keep listening to fox noise, o'reilly, limbaugh, hannity and the rest of that ignorant and very stupid crowd of skin-wasters.
How can Kristol still be employable as a journalist in the eyes of the NYT? All it would have taken is a quick Google search to reveal that even Mr. Warren, who hosted the debate, has acknowledged that McCain was NOT in the "cone of silence" at the appointed time. In fact, McCain had just left his hotel room. Instead, Kristol just shamelessly throws out that Andrea Mitchell has HER facts wrong, when he makes NO attempt whatsoever to verify them first.
This is what the Times is going to brand as "Fit to Print"..? Shameful the degradation of journalism being tolerated here.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:05 amgood_trollup thinks it's possible for democrats to lose anything with the country in its current condition thanks to many years of republican rule.
Evangelicals can't moderate debates, you encrusted piece of dung.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:05 amWhen they said that McCain would be in a place that he could not hear the questions, my cynical self said "YAH RIGHT"
August 18th, 2008 at 11:07 amMcCain can't get beyond his "heroship" long enough to give any solid ideas of how to make this country get back on track.
I could say, no new taxes, tax breaks for parents, civil rights for all, a new day dawning in the Middle East, I will die trying to bring Osama bin Laden to justice. This does not make me a good choice for the president. At least Obama has the honesty and integrity to tell us it is going to be hard to accomplish the changes we need, we will need tax money to fund these programs. I love Baraks ides of empathy being a life lesson for him. But I suppose that dis-qualifies him.
Damn what a sick country. We need change NOW
So Warren asked whether evil exists and if it does, “do we ignore it? Do we negotiate with it? Do we contain it? Do we defeat it?”
Obama responded in part:
“Now, the one thing that I think is very important is for us to have some humility” as we confront evil...a lot of evil has been perpetrated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil...“just because we think our intentions are good doesn’t always mean that we’re going to be doing good.”
Kristol ponders: "Where in particular has the United States in recent years — at home or especially abroad — perpetrated evil in the name of confronting evil?
Gee. The killing of 1 million people in Iraq comes to my mind, but no Bill Kristol's. Or how about torture in Abu Ghraib, Bagram Gitmo and various 'black' sites around the world?
Kristol continues: "Hasn’t the overwhelming problem been, rather, a reluctance to effectively confront evil — in Darfur, or Rwanda, or pre-9/11 Afghanistan?"."
Indeed it has, but some of the most glaring examples of ineffectual confront come from Kristol and his neocon friends. Every time they identify "evil" they rush to confront it, but fail to effectively do so.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:07 amDvlsAdvocat Says:
How can Kristol still be employable as a journalist in the eyes of the NYT?
You'd think the the NYT would get tired of issuing "corrections"!
August 18th, 2008 at 11:11 amI think Kristol is just paying someone from townhall.com to do these columns for him as he does his normal trolling for like-minded people on the internet. That is a 24/7 thing for GOP a-holes in this day and age, since you have to be awfully stupid to say you are one in public now-a-days.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:13 amThis puts into question the "coin toss to see who goes first". McCain was not there for the coin toss and had he won he could not have gone first..he wasn't there yet.....
August 18th, 2008 at 11:14 amLies, lies and more lies.
Oh, I see they HAVE gotten tired of issuing corrections (so embarrassing!) and have now just started to do "revisions".
Revisionist journalism.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:14 amSadly, all the reich-wingers on Faux and a.m hate radio will be parroting this factless report all week.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:14 amI understand there is a clause in Kristol's NYT employment agreement -- he has to reimburse them for the newsprint and ink used to issue retractions/corrections to his column.
So far, he owes them $100,000 (and counting).
August 18th, 2008 at 11:16 amSparksNV Says:
This puts into question the “coin toss to see who goes first”. McCain was not there for the coin toss and had he won he could not have gone first..he wasn’t there yet…..
Lies, lies and more lies.
Excellent point! No matter how you slice this one its damning to McCain. If the coin toss was held earlier in the day, before the actual even started, then McCain's crew would have known it would be advantageous to be "running late. If it was held immediately before the debate started, then everyone knew McCain wasn't there, making Warren's claim of mcCain being in "the cone of silence" a flat out lie. For what purpose?
Imagine the outrage from Kristol if this was Obama instead of McCain, and the moderator was someone who represents a group that leans to Democrats, maybe a Teacher's Union.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:22 amKristol will be the death of the grey lady, and of course, he will not mourn her.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:24 amWhy should anyone be surprised that McNumbNuts was a no-show for the "cone of silence"? He hasn't shown up in the Senate for more than four months. Why should this be any different?
Oh, yes, I am sure that he tried to get to the cone . . . he just "missed it by that much" as Maxwell Smart would say.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:27 amWell I for one am glad that pander-fest is over!
Pandering to AIPAC? Check
August 18th, 2008 at 11:29 amPandering to evangelicals? Check
Indeed it has, but some of the most glaring examples of ineffectual confront come from Kristol and his neocon friends. Every time they identify “evil” they rush to confront it, but fail to effectively do so
5th estate, the only time we seem to be willing to confront evil is if there is oil to protect. Why do we care about Georgia, Iraz etc? Oil
August 18th, 2008 at 11:36 amdareme Says:
5th estate, the only time we seem to be willing to confront evil is if there is oil to protect. Why do we care about Georgia, Iraz etc? Oil
Too bad the millions in Rwanda and Darfur weren't/aren't sitting atop a huge oil reserve.
PEACE
August 18th, 2008 at 11:47 amMcCain cheat? What?
August 18th, 2008 at 11:47 amI just read that the story he told about the cross in the sand while in the prison was almost identical to the story in Solzhenitsyn's (? sp) book about his time in the Russian gulag.
Why does the NYT put up with such a fool? I'd have fired his ass the FIRST time he made one of his egregious errors.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:49 amspencers mom says:
Too bad the millions in Rwanda and Darfur weren’t/aren’t sitting atop a huge oil reserve
McCain says we need to confront evil and defeat it!
August 18th, 2008 at 11:54 amThen he was asked about Darfur and Rwanda, choke!
Let's be clear here: for McCain, the "Cone of Silence" refers to those times when he doesn't have a cone held up to his ear while you're talking to him.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:56 amIf anyone can believe that mcsame's motorcade was 'accidentally' delayed, i'd like to show 'em a nice hole in the ground in lower manhattan I have for sale--real cheap...
August 18th, 2008 at 12:06 pmDamn, such insight.
Could Kristol be the advance guard of the same kind of right-wing attack strategy that they've been using to tear down government for thirty years -- that is, secure positions of authority and then publically fu(k up, thereby rpoving that government (or, in this case, the NYT) can't work?
Peter C, you just blew my mind.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:09 pmdareme : 5th estate, the only time we seem to be willing to confront evil is if there is oil to protect. Why do we care about Georgia, Iraz etc? Oil
spencers mom: Too bad the millions in Rwanda and Darfur weren’t/aren’t sitting atop a huge oil reserve.
Yup.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:16 pmGovt. driven 'humanitarianism' seems invariably to serve an ulterior purpose. Citizens on the other hand act out of genuine compassion---consider the responses of ordinary people to major disasters. Yet it is the politicians who crow about their supposed idealistic compassion whilst invariably attaching conditions to their "compassion"--which is only made possible by the taxpayers.
Apologies if this has been pointed out already, but McCain's camp -- in true Rovian fashion -- minced words carefully to say that McCain didn't listen/watch the program en route to the church.
What failed to be asked/answered was whether anyone who did listen/watch passed along details to the lovely senator.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:27 pmPatty Says:
Apologies if this has been pointed out already, but McCain’s camp — in true Rovian fashion — minced words carefully to say that McCain didn’t listen/watch the program en route to the church.
What failed to be asked/answered was whether anyone who did listen/watch passed along details to the lovely senator.
I had almost the exact same thought. You need to be verrrry careful when listening to these statements. I can easily see where someone watching back at the hotel, or at campaign headquarters, could be watching and crafting McCains answers, (since we knew they would be asked the SAME questions, beforehand) then relaying them to the limo/handlers. All easily possible, and within the scope of their denial.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:34 pmum, for those who don’t get the reference, the “cone of silence” actually doesn’t work.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:35 pmFacts to Kristol are like buzzing insects that need to be whisked away.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:41 pm'Lil Billy Kristol is a prime example of 'NeoSpeak'.
Tell a lie, make sure it gets legs, rinse, lather, repeat.
Billy, you're welcome to your own opinions, but NOT your own facts.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:42 pmMccain and bush - both lousy students, who know how to cheat.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:47 pmKristol is a breeding error....Blessings, we need them
August 18th, 2008 at 1:00 pmwell, i don't know about the OBAMA camp, but very soon after that "faux-rum", i came to TP and posted MY disappointment and accusations of CHEATING... and then i went to C&L, where they had posted 2 thread on the subject, one of which i joined in with the comments... and EVERYbody was talking about the obvious signs of the cheating... WAY before any kind of official OBAMA camp statements on this...
August 18th, 2008 at 1:07 pmhey! why am i not able to comment in other tabs?
August 18th, 2008 at 1:09 pmthe comments link says i have to "sign in"... did so...
what's going on?
Who dares impugn the honor of St. John the Insane. He has suffered for our sins. Read more. http://www.tagg-lines.com/2008/08/mccain-campaign-in-nutshell.html
August 18th, 2008 at 1:11 pmok... it must be fixed...
August 18th, 2008 at 1:18 pmFOURTH?
Is that all?
He usually makes at least that many every time he opens his trap on the talking skull shows...
August 18th, 2008 at 1:20 pmLiars need a lot of CYA attention -- bad liars (Kristol et al.) need extra help in the CYA department, offered by their handlers, employers and sycophants.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:54 pmI can picture what happened in McCain's car (the time-honored Repub way of twisting the truth, the way some children do): Aides tell McCain not to listen to the questions- they will do so & tell him what they were; that way McCain can say, I never heard the questions. They have so many ways of lying.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:33 pmCan we please stop beating around the bush here?
The NYT knows full well Kristol is a lying propagandist. The NYT knows full well he will lie to their readers.
The NYTs knows, KNOWS, he will lie to their readers, that is obviously WHY they hired him. This act of the ombuds coming in after the lies are spread doing some corrections is just a con game to satisfy liberal chumps who think they have accomplished something getting a correction, when in fact the lies are already on the road which is what the neocon NYT wants.
Your headline should read: "NYT deceives readers AGAIN!!"
August 18th, 2008 at 2:44 pmBTW, this is also the headline that should be all over but is not.
"Rick Warren LIED to America"
Warren was either lied to by one of his staff who told him McCain was in house in the "cone" in which case Warren should publicly name that person and FIRE them - or Warren was lying because he did not know where McCain was when he boldly said he was in the 'cone.’
August 18th, 2008 at 2:50 pmCome on John, stick around for awhile. I have a nice pitcher of lemonade...
August 18th, 2008 at 4:00 pmdo tell kj
August 18th, 2008 at 4:18 pmI live in Southern California and was listening to the second hour of the forum on one of the two popular news radio stations in the Los Angeles area in my car(the two are KFWB and KNX. I believe I was listening to KNX.). Please don't try to tell me that no one on his campaign staff or in his motorcade was listening to any of that broadcast.
Given his track record of "straight talk" I have to assume that they were listening intently and taking notes.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:29 pmJohn Kerry Says:
Apparently you libs haven’t heard the latest which is that Obama Carter in fact ADMITTED to cheating!!
Apparantly you havent been keeping up with current events but you are a moronic twit
August 18th, 2008 at 5:38 pmThe evidence that McCain cheated is on video... answering questions about Katrina, bad teachers, and Supreme Court justices BEFORE those questions were asked!!! We don't need assurances that he is too honorable to question... we have his own words. Primary evidence. He CHEATED. Badly and often and clumsily. The false indignation from his camp is as odious and over-the-top as his own actions. McCain CHEATED. Period.
This man cheated on his wife, steals songs and recipes and parts of speeches, suggests that his latest wife enter a biker-boy topless contest, was one of the scumbagging Keating Five, takes credit for legislation he opposed, etc. and etc., yet he is too "honorable" to question about his latest fraud?
:roll eyes at the temerity of newscasters:
McCain's motorcade didn't leave his hotel until AFTER the program started. Nobody in the press pool called that news in? When the staff noticed his late arrival at the church, why didn't the announcer tell the TV audience that McCain had just arrived? Complicit in the lie. Perpetrating the fraud.
Warren lied about the coin toss, he lied about sequestering McCain, and he lied about them not having any questions in advance. Apparently there were 2 questions that he gave them ahead of time. WHY lie?
Money.
When you can sell seats to your own congregants at $500-2000 a butt-holder, you want a smooth show with applause at all the right times. Warren is a showman. (The evidence that he knew is also on video, for anybody who can read body language.) Why risk a few boos and catcalls to destroy a pleasant evening of money-raking? Why tell the truth to an audience comfortable with lies? Why expose evil in the here and now, when you can comfortably claim willingness to confront it later... in some ficticious place and time!
Charades is supposed to be a game. But even the game has rules.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:01 pmI guess we are going to have to apologize to Rick Warren. He said yesterday that he is deeply offended by the rumors that McCain was not in the "cone of silence". I think he even added that he himself saw him there.? A pastor lying?
August 19th, 2008 at 10:24 am