ThinkFast: August 18, 2008
ThinkFast: August 18, 2008
Under pressure over impending impeachment charges, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf announced his resignation in a televised address to his nation today. “I don’t want the people of Pakistan to slide deeper and deeper into uncertainty,” he said. Musharraf said he was putting national interest above “personal bravado.”
Mold infests barracks at Fort Sill in Oklahoma, even though they were set up just “a year ago for wounded soldiers after poor conditions at Walter Reed Army Medical Center triggered a systemwide overhaul.” Twenty soldiers who spoke to USA Today said that their” complaints about mold and other problems went unheeded for months, and they were “ordered not speak about the conditions.”
Despite public assurances, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) was not in a “cone of silence” on Saturday night while Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) was being interviewed at the Saddleback Church in California by the Rev. Rick Warren. McCain “was in his motorcade on the way to the church” during Obama’s interview. The matter is significant because McCain and Obama were asked virtually the same questions.
McCain’s campaign manager Rick Davis is accusing NBC of making “partisan claims in order to undercut John McCain.” Yesterday, Davis asked for a meeting with NBC president Steve Capus, “part of an aggressive effort by McCain to counter news coverage he considers critical,” Politico notes.
On the trail today: Obama will be in Albuquerque, NM where he will host a discussion on equal pay and outline his plan to provide economic security for working women. McCain will speak at the 109th Annual Veterans of Foreign Wars Convention in Orlando.
Last week, the White House press office criticized the Wall Street Journal’s conservative editorial page for claiming that the administration “was slow to respond” to the Russia-Georgia conflict. The sparring represents how a “lot of conservatives are increasingly unhappy with him [Bush], particularly when it comes to foreign affairs.”
In an interview yesterday with the Pueblo Chieftan, McCain said the water compact that Colorado and other upper basin states have with California and Arizona should be renegotiated. The compact would be reopened “over my dead body,” Sen. Ken Salazar (D-CO) said in response. Even Republican Senate candidate Bob Schaffer reacted harshly: “Over my cold, dead, political carcass.”
Examining the roots of “the most serious post-cold-war showdown between the United States and Russia,” the New York Times reports that Vice President Cheney had previously “pushed to sell Georgia more arms” in order to “defend itself against possible Russian aggression.” But Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice “argued that such a sale would provoke Russia, which would see it as arrogant meddling in its turf.”
The newly created Defense Counterintelligence and Human Intelligence Center will have “an office authorized for the first time to carry out ’strategic offensive counterintelligence operations.’” Though the operations aims to target terrorist activities both abroad and domestically, they are not intended to target U.S. citizens, according to the office’s director.
And finally: Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili has made himself available for extensive interviews with media outlets worldwide. But in one unusual moment, the BBC catches Saakashvili eating his necktie. (Watch video here.) A voice-over preview for the segment says, “The Georgian president chews over his next move. Is he weaker or stronger than before?”
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Despite public assurances, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) was not in a “cone of silence” on Saturday night while Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) was being interviewed at the Saddleback Church in California by the Rev. Rick Warren. McCain “was in his motorcade on the way to the church” during Obama’s interview. The matter is significant because McCain and Obama were asked virtually the same questions.
The bottom line is that the rules were broken. McCain was not in a “Cone of Silence” so he couldn’t hear the questions. What prevented them from text messaging or listening to the broadcast? OH that’s right, they said they didn’t so we are blindly to believe that statement. Sorry, but I’m not buying it.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:03 amCone of silence my pink patootie Since when have these churchies been straight shooters
August 18th, 2008 at 9:04 amTitle: Gene X Portraits of a Liberal Blogger
Author: James Saville Row
Publisher: TTOTT, Box 10303, Chicago, IL 60610-0303
Date: August 08, 2008
ISBN: 978-0981878713
Now available on Amazon.com
TODAY’s CONTRIB: THE KNOCKING-SOCKS 2008 CHICAGO air AND WATER SHOW
This past weekend’s Chicago Air and Water Show (with less emphasis on the “Air” piece) did not deserve the long grueling, airport trauma-rife, cross-country, journey it took to the Gold Coast of Chi. Even Bill Murray’s maiden expert parachuting did not ensure the ghost of the 2007 drenching Chicago Air and water no-show, was kept at bay. The only highlight being the usual side-show of the Friday night lackluster fireworks, that should have been a clear harbinger of what was not to come on Saturday and Sunday.
The faithful persisted.
The caravan of errors commenced on Monday, with a trickling of recon flights to sweep the scene, falsely jazzing-up the expectation for a make-up of last year’s fiasco of a no-show.
Then came Friday’s performances, which seemed to lack the old certain something, that was always plentiful enough to feed the available record 3 million folks, who assemble at The Magnificent’s beaches, to enjoy the annual aircrobatics. Conventional wisdom chalked it off to a warm-up exercise for Saturday and Sunday, heck even SOL was on board.
Saturday morning. Sunrise sun-bright. Heightened expectation that now, finally was a redemption for 2007.
Immediately obvious was the frequently long periods of silence, that it almost took the collective conscious agreement of the spectators to make a plane appear in the sky. Another fiasco! For whatever reason, the recent mishaps, national security, russkies flexing their muscles, the planes seemed to be having a difficulty showing-up.
Sunday, pari passu.
2007’s show was precluded upon by the Demiurge’s emptying of the sky’s inventory of rainfall on the Gold Coast. What’s the 2008 Chicago Air and Water Show’s organizers’ excuse?
If next year’s show promises to knocking-socks amaze, as much as this year’s show, I would
say cancel right away and spare the poor souls who have committed to the yearly ritual.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:05 amMcCain’s campaign manager Rick Davis is accusing NBC of making “partisan claims in order to undercut John McCain.” Yesterday, Davis asked for a meeting with NBC president Steve Capus, “part of an aggressive effort by McCain to counter news coverage he considers critical,” Politico notes.
The guilty usually protest the loudest, well McCain wins hands down.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:05 amMusharraf said he was putting national interest above “personal bravado.”
What a refreshing idea. I wonder if GDumbya, Darth Cheney and the rest of the Keystone Kops are listening.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:08 amMcCain’s cross in the sand story…PLAGIARIZED
Long story short. In 1973, a russian author, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, wrote about his time in in the book “The Gulag Archipelago” and relayed exactly the same story.
From the book:
“As he waited, head down, he felt a presence. Slowly he looked up and saw a skinny old prisoner squat down beside him. The man said nothing. Instead, he used a stick to trace in the dirt the sign of the Cross. The man then got back up and returned to his work.
As Solzhenitsyn stared at the Cross drawn in the dirt his entire perspective changed. He knew he was only one man against the all-powerful Soviet empire. Yet he knew there was something greater than the evil he saw in the prison camp, something greater than the Soviet Union. He knew that hope for all people was represented by that simple Cross. Through the power of the Cross, anything was possible.”
read this entry with links to DailyKos:
Long story short. In 1973, a russian author, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, wrote about his time in in the book “The Gulag Archipelago” and relayed exactly the same story.
From the book:
“As he waited, head down, he felt a presence. Slowly he looked up and saw a skinny old prisoner squat down beside him. The man said nothing. Instead, he used a stick to trace in the dirt the sign of the Cross. The man then got back up and returned to his work.
As Solzhenitsyn stared at the Cross drawn in the dirt his entire perspective changed. He knew he was only one man against the all-powerful Soviet empire. Yet he knew there was something greater than the evil he saw in the prison camp, something greater than the Soviet Union. He knew that hope for all people was represented by that simple Cross. Through the power of the Cross, anything was possible.”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132×6652541
**And MSM coverage of this? Crickets chirping.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:08 amAnd of course nothing will come of McCain breaking the rules. Teflon John.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:09 amMcNumbNuts says he didn’t “hear” Warren’s questions of Obama while he was motoring to the mega-church. I believe him . . . he was too busy memorizing the answers provided to him by his staffers who were listening to the questions.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:11 amMusharraf channeling Tricky Dick.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:11 amBut Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice “argued that such a sale would provoke Russia, which would see it as arrogant meddling in its turf.”
_________________________________________________________
And Secretary Rice shows a rare moment of clear thinking…
August 18th, 2008 at 9:12 amFreedom Rebel Says:
——————————————————————————–
The bottom line is that the rules were broken. McCain was not in a “Cone of Silence” so he couldn’t hear the questions. What prevented them from text messaging or listening to the broadcast? OH that’s right, they said they didn’t so we are blindly to believe that statement. Sorry, but I’m not buying it.
**Good mornong FR;)! As I watched it I thought this all along. Plus (posted this a lot yesterday) the first thing David Schuster said after the forum was how “intellectual” (uppity?) Obama and went on with his guests to heap praise on McCain. Were we even watchng the same forum? Obama sounds like out next president and McCain…???
August 18th, 2008 at 9:16 amSorry for the double post on 6. I am really struggling with my one finger typing and, well, you’ve all seen the results!
August 18th, 2008 at 9:19 amMold infests barracks at Fort Sill in Oklahoma, even though they were set up just “a year ago for wounded soldiers after poor conditions at Walter Reed Army Medical Center triggered a systemwide overhaul.” Twenty soldiers who spoke to USA Today said that their” complaints about mold and other problems went unheeded for months, and they were “ordered not speak about the conditions.”
“The body reacts to mold particles which are airborne, spread and breathed into our lungs,” says Streifel. Streifel says that a person breathing in mold particles can be at risk for numerous illnesses. The biggest health threat is from hypersensitive diseases, including asthma and chronic nasal drip. There are various symptoms of mold exposure, including eye irritation, shortness of breath, running nose or general malaise.”
This is not the way to treat our wounded soldiers by exposing them to more harmful problems while they are recuperating. Way to go Bush, hell of a way to show your support for the troops.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:20 amMcCain’s campaign manager Rick Davis is accusing NBC of making “partisan claims in order to undercut John McCain.” Yesterday, Davis asked for a meeting with NBC president Steve Capus, “part of an aggressive effort by McCain to counter news coverage he considers critical,” Politico notes.
And what was that bad coverage? Why, it was Andrea Mitchell on “Meet the Press” relating that McStain wasn’t, as stated over and over again, in Warren’s so-called Cone of Silence!
Trying to intimidate the press won’t work for Davis like it did for Rove. We The People are on to that trick now, and Davis better watch his step because McStain’s BFFs are the press, and only the press.
PEACE
August 18th, 2008 at 9:21 amSo, to “counter news coverage he considers critical,” McCain’s staff is not going to rebut said coverage but instead seek to cow media. Smells like Fascism.
BTW, Mitchell merely reported what the Obama staff was saying, something media do all the time. One wee difference, the echoes from the neocon side prove, with scant exception, to be lies.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:21 amSteve Capus is required — REQUIRED — to eat the grilled weiner of the McCain campaign, slathered with katsup and moostard.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:27 amI find it incredible that the MSM & media in general state that McCain ‘won’ the church scenario.
The McChurian candidate never even directly answered questions.
According to him, David Petraeus is God.
Why does a Country founded on the concept of separation of Church & State need Christian opinion in politics?
If you can’t win an election, break the rules. It worked for Bush.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:33 amA lot of folks knew mcchimpy was well prep for the rev. wig’s questions. It’s impossible to reverse dementia.
At times mcchimpy had to slow down because in his zeal he lost track and had to back step. It was chimpy all over again at the debates. It’s like they are listening to something or are completely weird.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:33 am“Mold infests barracks .. .” In 1983 in Japan the Army ordered us not to speak to Japanese about race problems in the United States. That’s the time to contact your Congress member. I did and not too much later that order was rescinded. There must be discipline against pfficers and senior NCOs who would give such an order and Congress needs to be all over this like white on rice!
August 18th, 2008 at 9:35 amMcCain’s campaign manager Rick Davis is accusing NBC of making “partisan claims in order to undercut John McCain”
Nobody needs to undercut John McCain. Seems like he does it himself with EVERY pronouncement.
Good morning, campers.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:35 amHow Big Brother watches your every move
With every telephone call, swipe of a card and click of a mouse, information is being recorded, compiled and stored about Britain’s citizens.
An investigation by The Sunday Telegraph has now uncovered just how much personal data is being collected about individuals by the Government, law enforcement agencies and private companies each day.
In one week, the average person living in Britain has 3,254 pieces of personal information stored about him or her, most of which is kept in databases for years and in some cases indefinitely.
The data include details about shopping habits, mobile phone use, emails, locations during the day, journeys and internet searches.
In many cases this information is kept by companies such as banks and shops, but in certain circumstances they can be asked to hand it over to a range of legal authorities.
Britain’s information watchdog, the Information Commissioner’s Office, has called for tighter regulation of the amount of data held about citizens and urged the public to restrict the information they allow organisations to hold on them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2571041/How-Big-Brother-watches-your-every-move.html
**Now add domestic spying to the mix and it should be mind boggling on how MUCH info the US is gathering. Calibleu regularly talks to the spooks to entertain them when I get a call!!
August 18th, 2008 at 9:35 amTo commemorate husband John’s years of imprisonment in Vietnam, Cindy McCain baked her famous “Cross in the Dirt” chocolate cake lifted from a recipe on the Food Network.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:36 amMusharraf resigned when he knew that all provinces representatives, Pakistani parties and the majority in Pakistani Parliament were going to impeach him.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:37 amHe realized that the army that he once he controlled is no longer on his side.
Musharraf did not have many marbles to left in his hands.
His time has arrived.
We just hope that Pakistani people rise to the occasion and Pakistan stengthens its democratic foundation with this big step.
#11 And the beat goes on Says:
Freedom Rebel Says:
——————————————————————————–
The bottom line is that the rules were broken. McCain was not in a “Cone of Silence” so he couldn’t hear the questions. What prevented them from text messaging or listening to the broadcast? OH that’s right, they said they didn’t so we are blindly to believe that statement. Sorry, but I’m not buying it.
**Good mornong FR;)! As I watched it I thought this all along. Plus (posted this a lot yesterday) the first thing David Schuster said after the forum was how “intellectual” (uppity?) Obama and went on with his guests to heap praise on McCain. Were we even watchng the same forum? Obama sounds like out next president and McCain…???
Good Morning :) I feel so bad, I hope you have a speedy recovery.
I didn’t get to see the forum but read about it. I agree with you. McCain did his sound bits (talking points)which to me is all fluff and no substance. Obama comes off as someone who could actually lead this country and McCain always seems out of touch.
I had to laugh when Michelle Malkin got all upset and did a blog called : Sore loser: Obama and Obamedia accuse McCain of “cheating”. We know we are on the right track when the likes of Malkin get all defensive. She even called the MSM ”
August 18th, 2008 at 9:37 ammedia water-carriers” for the Obama Camp. That woman is in dire need of some serious phycological help.
Media folks: Don’t tell us you weren’t warned. If McCain is (s)elected president, the flurry of complaints and the faxing of talking points from the WH offices to your offices is the clearest indication that you have a Bush III.
Did you fancy pants types in the media like McCain’s hot dogs enough to skew the media coverage in his favor? You do know that people with a head on their shoulders just pick up a pack of cheese dogs in the middle isle of the grocery store and call bullshit, right? Those are the people you think you’re fooling.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:37 amHow long until the Defense Counterintelligence and Human Intelligence Center starts targetting first immigrants in the US and then American citizens? If McCain’s elected, it WON”T BE LONG!
August 18th, 2008 at 9:39 amTwenty soldiers who spoke to USA Today said that their” complaints about mold and other problems went unheeded for months, and they were “ordered not speak about the conditions.”
Anyone want to bet that this facility is being maintained by a private contractor?
August 18th, 2008 at 9:42 amgood_trollup
Is this the official excuse for why McCain performed so much better than Obama?
Explain, how did McCain masterfully perform better than Obama?
An empty declaration doesn’t make the case.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:42 amI betcha there’s some people who believe that it was purely accidental that McSame’s motorcade was running late…
(Psssst…Wanna buy a pair of lower manhattan high rise office buildings? Matched pair…)
August 18th, 2008 at 9:43 amgood_golly2 Says:
Is this the official excuse for why McCain performed so much better than Obama?
Why do you approve of cheating?
August 18th, 2008 at 9:43 am#10 misshusseinmolly Says:
But Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice “argued that such a sale would provoke Russia, which would see it as arrogant meddling in its turf.”
_________________________________________________________
And Secretary Rice shows a rare moment of clear thinking…
Good Morning :) Don’t you think it is a shame she didn’t have more? I would like to believe it was an attack of conscience but; she sold herself off cheap along time ago. What a waste of a great education and all the good she could have accomplished. Truly sad…
August 18th, 2008 at 9:44 amIs this the official excuse for why McCain performed so much better than Obama?
Oh, gg2. Much to the contrary, I find it ironic that McNumbNuts’s staff listened in and prepped him with answers . . . and he still sounded like the simple-minded charlatan that he is.
Obama, on the other hand, was forth-coming, well-reasoned and did not just throw out the “winning lines” that McNumbNuts has mastered in his pandering campaign.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:45 amMcCain “was in his motorcade on the way to the church” during Obama’s interview. The matter is significant because McCain and Obama were asked virtually the same questions.
In other words, he was listening to the speech on his radio. Many people thought that McCain’s answers sounded like he had the questions ahead of time, I guess that cinches it. Actually I would not be surprised if the church hadn’t sent McCain the questions ahead of time. The whole thing sounds like a set up and I hope that Obama doesn’t agree to any more like it.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:45 amStill a month out before the real debates. Let’s see how McCain handles a 1:1 with someone who can actually speak, remember facts and has ideas on how to fix the Bush mess, not perpetuate it.
McCain: Old School, Old Fool & Nothing New
August 18th, 2008 at 9:46 amgood_golly2 Says
August 18th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Is this the official excuse for why McCain performed so much better than Obama?
_____________________________________________________
Perhaps you could amuse us with a detailed explanation — with examples — of how McCain performed “so much better” than Obama?
August 18th, 2008 at 9:46 amThe newly created Defense Counterintelligence and Human Intelligence Center will have “an office authorized for the first time to carry out ’strategic offensive counterintelligence operations.’” Though the operations aims to target terrorist activities both abroad and domestically, they are not intended to target U.S. citizens, according to the office’s director.
So just move along people, nothing to see here…
August 18th, 2008 at 9:46 amWow. Gigi finally figured out that all she has to do is affix a cardinal number to one’s familiar troll handle, instead of making up new troll names when the last one gets banned for, well, trolling.
And if by “performed so much better” Gigi means “recited his stump speech rather than answer questions thoughfully” than no. All McCain has is his stump speech. We’ve seen how well a reflexive, non-contemplative “man of action” works out for this nation. McCain has never looked more like George W. Bush than he did last night.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:47 amTwenty soldiers who spoke to USA Today said that their” complaints about mold and other problems went unheeded for months, and they were “ordered not speak about the conditions.”
Why should the troops exercise the freedoms for which they fight? Those fancy freedoms are reserved for authoritative officers in air-conditioned tents.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:47 amYesterday, Davis asked for a meeting with NBC president Steve Capus, “part of an aggressive effort by McCain to counter news coverage he considers critical,” Politico notes.
Ok, so let’s intimidate the news people. Maybe that will get them off their duff to really report on McCain. I haven’t any idea what he is complaining about because NBC along with the rest of the MSM doesn’t cover McCain’s flips on issues nor his gaffes.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:47 amgood_golly2 Says:
Is this the official excuse for why McCain performed so much better than Obama?
“Performed” – that’s actually a good word for what McStain did on Saturday night. A carefully worded, well rehearsed performance.
Unfortunately for McStain, he failed to wait for his cues, and began answering questions out of order, or before they were even asked.
Bottom line, McStain is one bad actor.
PEACE
August 18th, 2008 at 9:48 amBecause she knows it’s the only chance they’ve got.
Also because she has no moral center.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:48 amLast week, the White House press office criticized the Wall Street Journal’s conservative editorial page for claiming that the administration “was slow to respond” to the Russia-Georgia conflict.
He was slow to respond. He stayed at the Olympics and didn’t really make any substantiative statements until after he came home. In the meantime he gave McCain a platform to act like he was the President.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:49 amMcWars Says:
Explain, how did McCain masterfully perform better than Obama?
He is a Republican. That means he automatically wins. Bush lost six debates against Gore and Kerry, but he was always crowned as winner simply because he didn’t lose as badly as expected.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:49 am“tom @ 33″: “Obama, on the other hand, was forth-coming, well-reasoned and did not just throw out the “winning lines” that McNumbNuts has mastered in his pandering campaign.”
Shorter “tom @ 33″: Nuance does not win circus events…
August 18th, 2008 at 9:49 amgood_golly2 Says:
Is this the official excuse for why McCain performed so much better than Obama?
How do you figure?
August 18th, 2008 at 9:50 amExamining the roots of “the most serious post-cold-war showdown between the United States and Russia,” the New York Times reports that Vice President Cheney had previously “pushed to sell Georgia more arms” in order to “defend itself against possible Russian aggression.”
Except that Georgia ended up being the aggressor. And more arms would not have helped. There is no way that Georgia can arm itself to the point where it would be able to stand up to Russia, and Rice knows it. She does occasionally get it right.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:51 amgood_golly2 Says:
McCain clearly won and the Obama camp whines like a kid who just lost a playground game. “You cheated. I’m telling….” That doesn’t make Obama look very presidential.
How did McCain clearly win?
August 18th, 2008 at 9:52 amgood_golly2 Says:
“You cheated. I’m telling….”
Let’s see… McStain did cheat, and when the press did their job of telling, you’re boy and his handler started whining and treatening the press for doing their jobs.
Project much?
PEACE
August 18th, 2008 at 9:52 amThis is too funny. The following is from the McCain letter to NBC criticizing Andrea Mitchell.
Mitchell: “The Obama people must feel that he didn’t do quite as well as they might have wanted to in that context, because what they are putting out privately is that McCain may not have been in the cone of silence and may have had some ability to overhear what the questions were to Obama. He seemed so well-prepared.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 8/17/08)
Make no mistake: This is a serious charge. Andrea Mitchell is repeating, uncritically, a completely unsubstantiated Obama campaign claim that John McCain somehow cheated in last night’s forum at Saddleback Church.
Now it comes out that McCain wasn’t in a “cone of silence” after all. I guess Obama was right. And McCain’s letter to NBC looks rather foolish now.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:53 amtarazan Says:
Musharraf resigned when he knew that all provinces representatives, Pakistani parties and the majority in Pakistani Parliament were going to impeach him.
He realized that the army that he once he controlled is no longer on his side.
Musharraf did not have many marbles to left in his hands.
His time has arrived.
We just hope that Pakistani people rise to the occasion and Pakistan stengthens its democratic foundation with this big step.
And Sen. Obama knew it had to change, he was going after Musharraf practices too.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:53 amPffffffft!
Goony_Goo_Goo, you owe me a new keyboard………
August 18th, 2008 at 9:55 amMornin’ shoeless,
“He who wins the debate should take the election” is null and void at this point, in my mind. The media sent that message in ‘04, and when Bush, as you said, “didn’t lose as badly as expected” they recanted that message and declared it a tie. They wouldn’t dare apply their logic to the “democrat candidate.” They have the bottom-dwelling us vs. them masses to appeal.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:57 amBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
Now it comes out that McCain wasn’t in a “cone of silence” after all. I guess Obama was right. And McCain’s letter to NBC looks rather foolish now.
But Bilbo, McStain is a POW! We’re supposed to trust him that, even though he could listen, he didn’t!
And even though he claims to have had the exact same experience as Alexandr Solzhenitsyn (cross in dirt) it’s just a coincidence, because he’s a POW don’t ya know! Funny how this moving experience that defined his entire POW experience never showed up in any of McStain’s books, but now that Solzhenitsyn is dead, the story has come out.
McStain’s own brand of P.O.W.
Plagiarizing
Opportunistic
Weasel
PEACE
August 18th, 2008 at 10:00 amgood_golly2 Says
August 18th, 2008 at 9:50 am
McCain clearly won…
__________________________________________________________
And you have yet to explain how McCain “won”. You claim that McCain performed “so much better” and “clearly won”, but just making those claims doesn’t make it so. I’m still waiting for you to give an explanation of how McCain “won”. Otherwise, you’re just hot air.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:01 amMcWars Says:
Media folks: Don’t tell us you weren’t warned. If McCain is (s)elected president, the flurry of complaints and the faxing of talking points from the WH offices to your offices is the clearest indication that you have a Bush III.
Did you fancy pants types in the media like McCain’s hot dogs enough to skew the media coverage in his favor? You do know that people with a head on their shoulders just pick up a pack of cheese dogs in the middle isle of the grocery store and call bullshit, right? Those are the people you think you’re fooling.
The weenies were spiked.
We will make sure Sen. Obama will have a historical landslide.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:02 amMcCain clearly won and the Obama camp whines like a kid who just lost a playground game. “You cheated. I’m telling….” That doesn’t make Obama look very presidential.
E C H O
You’re still in the red, good_trollup. Your empty declaration is still empty.
Accusing your opponent of doing exactly what your doing, isn’t there a word for that?
Post a copy of the letter sent by the Obama campaign to NBC News President Steve Capus, and then we’ll talk.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:03 amgood_golly2 Says:
Is this the official excuse for why McCain performed so much better than Obama?
Well, when one has the questions ahead of time and can prepare answers ahead of time, one will always do better than an opponent that did not have the same advantage.
Did anyone find it strange that Obama went first?
Looks like we have goon_golly back. Fun…fun…fun..
August 18th, 2008 at 10:04 amtom Says:
——————————————————————————–
Is this the official excuse for why McCain performed so much better than Obama?
Oh, gg2. Much to the contrary, I find it ironic that McNumbNuts’s staff listened in and prepped him with answers . . . and he still sounded like the simple-minded charlatan that he is.
Obama, on the other hand, was forth-coming, well-reasoned and did not just throw out the “winning lines” that McNumbNuts has mastered in his pandering campaign.
**Or as Cali’s spouse commented: I said to (my spouse) that McBush was pandering, but (my spouse) came out and said he wasn’t pandering he was prostituting himself. So now we can call him McBush the prostitute.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:05 amZimzone Says:
Still a month out before the real debates. Let’s see how McCain handles a 1:1 with someone who can actually speak, remember facts and has ideas on how to fix the Bush mess, not perpetuate it.
Considering the fact that the MSM is in the bag for McCain, I suspect that he will be given the questions ahead of time before the debate. I hope that Obama can insist on some kind of assurances that this won’t happen.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:06 amMy husband noted that in McCain’s interview, he asked if they could “go back to the judges” because he wanted to add something — JUDGES HAD NOT BEEN MENTIONED UP TO THAT POINT.
McCain’s quick responses even before the question had been fully asked were further indication that he had time to be prepared.
Add this deception to the phony POW story of the cross in the dirt and people should know how low is McCain’s threshhold for honesty.
Do we all remember, during a debate, Bush’s microphone in the back of his suit jacket?
August 18th, 2008 at 10:07 amIf you haven’t read this already, you gotta go read Frank Rich’s “The Candidate We Still Don’t Know”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/opinion/17rich.html?hp
SNAP! Looks like The Times will be receiving a letter from Davis really soon!
PEACE
August 18th, 2008 at 10:08 amRepublicans in 2008,
Fisher-Price doesn’t make high chairs that high. They already made an exception for you in 2000. Now, you’ll just have to take that hard-earned loss.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:09 amThe cone of silence controversy falls directly on Rick Warren. It is Mr. Warrens responsibility to get completely to the bottom of what McSame was doing AND absolute proof that he wasn’t cheating (not just the okee-doke). If Warren does not take ownership of the complete, independently varifyable explanation, then Warren has no credibility and is just another religious hack preying on his flock. Ralph Reed, Hagee etal.
Give him an honest chance but he must take ownership — get the word out!!!!
August 18th, 2008 at 10:09 amgi gi, are all trollups c*nts, or was McCain singling out his Wife?
August 18th, 2008 at 10:10 amRick Warren must not be allowed to hide in a “cone of silence” – he must take ownership of the controversy.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:12 amIn an interview yesterday with the Pueblo Chieftan, McCain said the water compact that Colorado and other upper basin states have with California and Arizona should be renegotiated.
[from linked article] “McCain, who said he understands water issues better than his Democratic opponent, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama…”
_____________________________________________________________
In the first place, McCain makes the claim that he understands water issues, but in reality water issues aren’t that difficult to understand. Everybody can talk about water storage projects and renegotiation of water compacts as long as they want to, but what it boils down to is that there is a limited amount of water in the West, and everybody wants it. So those who don’t have it are always trying to find ways to take it from those who do (kind of like the world and oil).
Colorado is getting a wee bit tired of seeing their water go to huge population centers built in the middle of deserts, with very poor (or non-existant) water conservation plans (gotta keep all those fancy golf courses looking green, you know).
August 18th, 2008 at 10:13 amNicollo Macplato Says:
The cone of silence controversy falls directly on Rick Warren. It is Mr. Warrens responsibility to get completely to the bottom of what McSame was doing AND absolute proof that he wasn’t cheating (not just the okee-doke). If Warren does not take ownership of the complete, independently varifyable explanation, then Warren has no credibility and is just another religious hack preying on his flock. Ralph Reed, Hagee etal.
Give him an honest chance but he must take ownership — get the word out!!!!
Warren will be on Larry King Live tonight. Let’s make sure Larry knows that we have some questions for Warren:
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.lkl.html
Either McStain lied to Warren, or Warren is covering. There are no other options, because I wholesale discount the “he said he didn’t and I believe him” response.
As St. Ronnie would say, “trust but verify”
PEACE
August 18th, 2008 at 10:15 amFrom Kristol’s NYT op-ed.
Warren asked whether evil exists and if it does, “do we ignore it? Do we negotiate with it? Do we contain it? Do we defeat it?”
Also, is evil bigger or smaller than a bread-box? Animal vegetable or mineral? How many syllables?
Obama and McCain agreed evil exists and couldn’t be ignored.
But then their answers diverged.
Obama : “Now, the one thing that I think is very important is for us to have some humility” as we confront evil. Why? Because “a lot of evil has been perpetrated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil.” After all, “just because we think our intentions are good doesn’t always mean that we’re going to be doing good.”
Unlike Obama, he took the question about evil to be in the first instance about 9/11. McCain asserted that “of course evil must be defeated,” and he put “radical Islamic extremism,” Al Qaeda in particular, at the top of his to-defeat list.
So I guess that makes McCain the Evil-defeating candidate. And all along I thought it was Obama who was supposed to be the messiah.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:16 amBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
Did anyone find it strange that Obama went first?
Not at all. This was a set up from the beginning. I amazed that Obama was willing to trust the right-wing evangelical mega-church nutcases. He was naive in thinking that, just because they are fellow Chirstians, they would treat him fairly. On the contrary, they showed once again that they are Republicans first and foremost, and therefore they are liars and cheaters.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:16 amOne reason given by the Russian troops why they were staying so long in Georgia was that they were destroying caches of weapons. Guess Cheney told Putin to rid Georgia of as much hardware as possible to increase the sales of the new stuff.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:18 amYes, Larry King should be flooded with emails insisting he ask Warren about the so called cone of silence – and McCain’s request to “go back to the judges” when the question had not been asked in the first place.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:18 amgood_golly2 Says:
McCain clearly won and the Obama camp whines like a kid who just lost a playground game. “You cheated. I’m telling….” That doesn’t make Obama look very presidential.
To you the mcchimpy’s answers didn’t appeared weird before it was known he cheated? And you believe mcchimpy won? All mcchimpy did was telling the same old embellished fish stories.
No wonder you’re a repug. No commonsense or insight. Like a poster said, you condoned cheating.
BTW the reason mcchimpy can’t keep his “war” stories straight is because he has none. Don’t you get it yet?
August 18th, 2008 at 10:21 amgood_golly2 Says:
It looks like Obama has lost his lead in Ohio. The latest Ohio polling has McCain and Obama tied at 45%-45%, even though the polling data was taken from 42% Democrats, 35% Republicans, and 23% “other” including independents. This is not looking good for the ObamaNation.
This specific poll had Obama carrying a lead only for the months of June and July. Volatility is therefore present. But Ohio is arguably the most economically depressed in the nation, and studies show that when the economy is down the incumbent party is not favored.
The report itself offers a remedy to tip the scales permanently for Obama: “Ohio is one state, along with Pennsylvania and Michigan, where Barack Obama would
probably be well served by some joint appearances with the Clintons”
I’d add the voter registration drives will help offset those, mainly in the southwest part of the state, who are economically depressed but refuse to vote for the scary black guy (Boehners district, et al.). The political activity in the northern part of the state, which leans blue, gives me hope. Kucinich only radiates that hope.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:23 amLooks like Bush & Co will need to look for some new post-administration real estate. I don’t think they’ll be welcome in Paraguay anymore:
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/8/18/headlines
August 18th, 2008 at 10:24 amBilbo Hussein Baggins at 10:04 am
Did anyone find it strange that Obama went first?
Standard practice on most talk shows. The Democrat almost always goes first. This lets the Repug “win” by presenting rebuttal points without the Democrat having the same chance. One reason why I never got all choked up about Russert’s death. He was the worst at it.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:26 amgood_golly2 Says:
“Obama’s response on abortion — the issue that remains his largest obstacle to evangelical support — bordered on a gaffe. Asked by Warren at what point in its development a baby gains “human rights,” Obama said that such determinations were “above my pay grade” — a silly answer to a sophisticated question. If Obama is genuinely unsure about this matter, he (and the law) should err in favor of protecting innocent life. If Obama believes that a baby in the womb lacks human rights, he should say so — pro-choice men and women must affirm (as many sincerely do) that developing life has a lesser status.”
August 18th, 2008 at 10:20 am
______
Oh, I see. So Obama gaffed because he didn’t tell the evangelical industry exactly what it wanted to hear. That’s cute, GG.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:27 amGood morning Freb…Nice to see you :)
August 18th, 2008 at 10:29 amhussein toasterhead Says:
Looks like Bush & Co will need to look for some new post-administration real estate. I don’t think they’ll be welcome in Paraguay anymore:
Lugo pledged to give land to the landless and fight corruption.
Wouldn’t it be sweet if he gave Bush’s land to the poor?
Bush needs to find a country that does not hold elections. if he wants to settle down permanently, a nice little regressive dictatorship like Dubai.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:31 amgoon_golly2 Says:
According to the liberal Washington Post (note, not the Washington Times), McCain Shines at Saddleback Forum (reprinted at realclearpolitics.com).
Ha. Typical goon_golly lies or lack of comprehension. The quotation is from a columnist in the Washington Post, and he’s a columnist who was previously a speechwriter for George W Bush and a member of the Iraq Study Group. Scarcely “liberal”, goon.
The opinion of one conservative does not constitute evidence, much less proof. As always, your kung fu is pathetic.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:32 amso glad that the SCLM is “reporting”, at least a bit, on the CHEATING my the mcLIAR campaign at the p.rick warren forum…
i can’t find the link, but last night one of the articles i read about it mentioned that p.rick did acknowledge that he gave the first 2 questions to the candidates…
i was compiling those question last night here at TP, to try to distinguish what differences there were between the “virtually identical questions”… interesting, seems those first 2 questions are the ones MOST dissimilar to each other…
No 1. is here… No.2 is here…
August 18th, 2008 at 10:32 amthe whole thing really stinks.
Obama raises $7.8 million in San Francisco
Barack Obama raked $7.8 million Sunday at three separate fundraisers in San Francisco, telling a VIP dinner crowd — many of whom paid $28,500 to attend — that he would win the presidency in November but to expect a tough battle with Republicans in the meantime.
Just look at all the favors Obama has to perform if he gets the White House. The presidential candidate who raises the most funds has less time working for the public. 400 Million dollars is a lot of payback!!
McCain outpoints Obama on energy
Let’s contrast Sen. Barack Obama’s energy plan. Sen. Obama was adamant about not developing America’s fossil fuels, (a scheme by big oil companies), and he opposes nuclear power. Sen. Obama plans to develop alternative energy sources rapidly enough to meet future demands using unproven technology, while changing his position rapidly enough to stabilize his poll numbers. Sen. Obama now wants to allow offshore drilling and raiding the strategic oil reserve to try to lower oil prices — a complete change from his previous positions.
Obama’s energy plan gives you a glimpse of his incompetence if he were elected president. He has an extremely reckless and naive solution to our energy problem.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:33 amgood_golly2 Says
August 18th, 2008 at 10:20 am
According to the liberal Washington Post (note, not the Washington Times), McCain Shines at Saddleback Forum (reprinted at realclearpolitics.com).
________________________________________________________
That article was an op-ed column, not a hard news story. Furthermore, it was written by Michael Gerson, who has been a senior policy advisor with The Heritage Foundation, and he has worked for a whole parade of conservative Republicans. Hardly an objective source. Try again.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:35 amgood_golly2 Says:
80. Obama should have been honest, came right out and stated his position that a “fetus” (i.e. a baby in the womb) has no human rights. Saying that the abortion issue is “above his pay grade” doesn’t cut it.
Putting words in his mouth? Perhaps you’d like to provide evidence on what his “real” position is, instead of pulling things out of your butt, as you usually do.
He didn’t say “the abortion issue” is above his pay grade, idiot. He said the determination of when life begins is, which is really the only intelligent response to that question.
Please try posting something that isn’t either a lie, a distortion, or an opinion masquerading as fact.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:35 amgood_golly2 Says:
80. Obama should have been honest, came right out and stated his position that a “fetus” (i.e. a baby in the womb) has no human rights. Saying that the abortion issue is “above his pay grade” doesn’t cut it.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:31 am
______
He was being honest. There is no black-and-white answer for such a complex issue. In some circumstances a fetus has human rights. In other circumstances it doesn’t. It depends on the situation.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:36 am86,
What a complete load of crap your post is. Complete crap.
The Rovian tactic of attacking an opponent’s strengths is worn out. Get over it.
McCain invented the flip flop. Face it. You guys are getting desperate to change opinion, & it’s pathetic to watch.
As far as owing favors to get in the WH, McCain owes enough to match Bush’s National debt.
You want a Bush the IIIrd? Vote McCain, the Turd.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:40 amMcCain has to cheat, only the most moronic cowards are fooled by him.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:40 amgood_golly2 Says:
It looks like Obama has lost his lead in Ohio. The latest Ohio polling has McCain and Obama tied at 45%-45%, even though the polling data was taken from 42% Democrats, 35% Republicans, and 23% “other” including independents. This is not looking good for the ObamaNation.
I thought mcchimpy was winning? Isn’t mcchimpy the known candidate? Isn’t mcchimpy the war hero? Wow I would think he would be too far ahead of Sen. Obama to count. I can see ties make you very happy (watch it you may tinkle on yourself) for your top of the line presidential nominee.
HAHAHAHAHA you are dippy as hell. But keep it coming it’s comic relief.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:41 amGG2–Obama should have been honest, came right out and stated his position that a “fetus” (i.e. a baby in the womb) has no human rights.
You should therefore ‘be honest’ and state that a woman with a fetus with four legs or two heads or no brain should be forced to bring the fetus to term and give birth to it.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:44 ami think THIS “gaffe” by mcDENSE is maybe the best evidence that he cheated and was coached:
NO. 8 & 9
…
MCCAIN: … And this presidency will have pro-life policies. …
WARREN: OK, we don’t have to beleaguer on that one. Define marriage.
MCCAIN: A union — a union between man and woman, between one man and one woman. That’s my definition of marriage.
Could I — are we going to get back to the importance of Supreme Court Justices or should I mention –
WARREN: We will get to that.
[…]
WARREN: Let me ask you a question related to that. We have a bill right here in California, Proposition H, that’s going on, because the court overturns this definition of marriage. Was the Supreme Court of California wrong?
MCCAIN: I believe they were wrong, and I strongly support preserving …
[No. 9 is two different questions…]
and this: “… are we going to get back to the importance of Supreme Court Justices …”
is a “tell” -
according to the CNN transcript, THAT IS THE FIRST TIME THOSE WORDS WERE MENTIONED TO OR FROM JOHN mcCHEATER DURING HIS “INTERVIEW”…
August 18th, 2008 at 10:45 ammisshusseinmolly, that is the right-wing playbook. They brand the Washington Post as liberal. Then when the Post prints columns by right-wing Republican operatives, their minions start crowing that the so-called “liberal biased” news media agrees with them. Remember, it was the Washington Post which led the parade for Bill Clinton’s impeachment. This trick has been performed so often, for so many years, that you would think people might catch on to the charade.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:45 am* * *
“IT”, people… troolls are ITs… please!
* * *
August 18th, 2008 at 10:46 amgood_golly2 Says:
80. Obama should have been honest, came right out and stated his position that a “fetus” (i.e. a baby in the womb) has no human rights. Saying that the abortion issue is “above his pay grade” doesn’t cut it.
I have to agree with you here, and luckily for me, the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is very clear on this matter:
Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Yes, gi gi, the unborn are not yet covered by the U.S. Constitution, but the rights of the mother are clearly laid out here.
PEACE
August 18th, 2008 at 10:48 amMorning Katy! Thanks again for your indepth compare and contrast of Saturday night’s “Faux-rum”.
PEACE
August 18th, 2008 at 10:49 amExit Stage Left Says:
Good morning Freb…Nice to see you :)
Back at you.:) I have really missed you and your sense of humor. It wasn’t the same without you.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:52 amkaty,
August 18th, 2008 at 10:52 amjust for the record, good_goony 2.0 has admitted to being a (c)hristian soccer mom from Fla. before the upgrade.
good_goony 2.0 says:
August 18th, 2008 at 10:55 amThat’s really funny. When the Wall Street Journal published an op-ed column blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah (Look! Over there! A distraction from my clear avoidance of all issues and debates! Over there!)
Conservatives Slam Obama’s Answer About Supreme Court Justices at Saddleback Forum
Barack Obama’s comments about the Supreme Court justice, reveal the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee’s ignorance and misunderstanding of the Constitution.
Obama said he would not have nominated Thomas to the bench because “I don’t think that he was a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time for that elevation.
Another example of Obama’s misguided judgment.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:57 am#94 katy Says:
i think THIS “gaffe” by mcDENSE is maybe the best evidence that he cheated and was coached:
according to the CNN transcript, THAT IS THE FIRST TIME THOSE WORDS WERE MENTIONED TO OR FROM JOHN mcCHEATER DURING HIS “INTERVIEW”…
Good Morning. Great point Katy :)
August 18th, 2008 at 10:57 amhussein toasterhead Says:
Looks like Bush & Co will need to look for some new post-administration real estate. I don’t think they’ll be welcome in Paraguay anymore:
i never understood, except for the nazi ties, why everyone thought it would be paraguay… it’s gonna be DUBAI… all their friends are there, after all…
August 18th, 2008 at 11:01 amgood_golly2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
DRxJ Says:
——————————————————————————–
katy,
just for the record, good_goony 2.0 has admitted to being a (c)hristian soccer mom from Fla. before the upgrade.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:52 am
____________________________________________
christian — not exactly. I don’t belong to any organized church and haven’t in over 25 years.
soccer — no way
mom — yes
from Fla. — currently.
50% You get an “F.”
August 18th, 2008 at 10:59 am
You get an “M” – for MORON
August 18th, 2008 at 11:01 amDRxJ Says:
——————————————————————————–
katy,
just for the record, good_goony 2.0 has admitted to being a (c)hristian soccer mom
She is a perfect example of the reason Obama should not have expected the evangelicals to be fair. Cheating and lying are not Christian values. However, as gg2 shows, Republican christians are Republicans first. Christian principles are of no consequence to them where the Republican party is concerned.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:03 amACME_Democrat Says:
——————————————————————————–
Conservatives Slam Obama’s Answer About Supreme Court Justices at Saddleback Forum
Barack Obama’s comments about the Supreme Court justice, reveal the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee’s ignorance and misunderstanding of the Constitution.
Obama said he would not have nominated Thomas to the bench because “I don’t think that he was a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time for that elevation.
Another example of Obama’s misguided judgment.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:57 am
What a shock ; cancervatives bad-mouthing Obama in an OP/Ed posted on FAUX Comedy Channel’s site ………..
Another example of you GOP/Chimpy nut huggers’ inability to understand what a “credible source” is…………
August 18th, 2008 at 11:03 amMcCain’s campaign manager Rick Davis is accusing NBC of making “partisan claims in order to undercut John McCain.” Yesterday, Davis asked for a meeting with NBC president Steve Capus, “part of an aggressive effort by McCain to counter news coverage he considers critical,” Politico notes.
And yet McCain doesn’t seem to have any problem when the media uncritically publishes any of his many misstatements. This falls under “be careful what you wish for.” If the media ever starts doing their job properly, the Republican Party would be exposed as the den of liars and criminals that they really are.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
August 18th, 2008 at 11:05 amgood_golly2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
katy Says:
——————————————————————————–
i think THIS “gaffe” by mcDENSE is maybe the best evidence that he cheated and was coached:
NO. 8 & 9
…
MCCAIN: … And this presidency will have pro-life policies. …
WARREN: OK, we don’t have to beleaguer on that one. Define marriage.
MCCAIN: A union — a union between man and woman, between one man and one woman. That’s my definition of marriage.
Could I — are we going to get back to the importance of Supreme Court Justices or should I mention –
WARREN: We will get to that.
__________________________________
They were discussing abortion, and the point that McCain was making before the interruption (one that he has made numerous times in the past) was that his presidency would have pro-life policies by appointing pro-life Supreme Court Justices. That is obviously what he meant about “the importance of Supreme Court Justices.” The abortion issue had been raised, and Supreme Court Justices are clearly part of that issue. You are looking for a gaffe where none exists.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:04 am
You are looking for any excuse where none exists……..
You are nothing more than a GOP tool
August 18th, 2008 at 11:07 amgood_golly2 Says
August 18th, 2008 at 10:49 am
That’s really funny. When the Wall Street Journal published an op-ed column from a columnist who liked Obama’s economic plan of the day, liberals jumped all over it, proclaiming that the “conservative” Wall Street Journal somehow endorsed Obama’s economic plan. You’ve been caught in your own hypocrisy. And such a simple trap it was…
_______________________________________________________
Link please, to any post I made claiming the “conservative” WSJ endorsed Obama’s economic plan based on an op-ed column. Until you can provide proof of a double-standard on my part, you have no right calling me a hypocrite.
But YOUR hypocrisy is OK, because you’re just using to “trap” people — right?
August 18th, 2008 at 11:08 amgood_golly2 Says:
McCain clearly won and the Obama camp whines like a kid who just lost a playground game. “You cheated. I’m telling….” That doesn’t make Obama look very presidential.
No explanation of how McCain bested Oboma in your opinion, then you post this obvious troll, trying to bait.
Flagging your trollishness
August 18th, 2008 at 11:10 amFreedom Rebel Says:
Back at you.:) I have really missed you and your sense of humor. It wasn’t the same without you.
Yea…I haven’t been here much….Mostly just lurking and not posting….Still having trouble focusing….Things still suck, but not so much today.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:11 amGood Morning Poster’s,… OT. sorry…..For the first time in a very long time I watched Bill Moyer’s show last night…He was talking to Andrew J Bacevich(sp) about his book “The limits of power”….Has anyone here read it and what did you think about it…? Want to get your view’s before I run out and add it to my list of reading material…..Blessings
August 18th, 2008 at 11:12 amgood_golly2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
mom — yes
August 18th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Isn’t there a law prohibiting the mentally feeble from breeding ?
How did you manage to get past it ………….?
August 18th, 2008 at 11:14 amDRxJ – IT’S STILL A TROOLL.
and feminizing as an insult is insulting to feminines.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:15 amgood_golly2 Says:
80. Obama should have been honest, came right out and stated his position that a “fetus” (i.e. a baby in the womb) has no human rights. Saying that the abortion issue is “above his pay grade” doesn’t cut it.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:31 am
No, that’s not what he said — but you know that.
No, the fetus does not have rights, the woman has rights.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:18 amAcme says:
Obama said he would not have nominated Thomas to the bench because “I don’t think that he was a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time for that elevation.
Another example of Obama’s misguided judgment.
And where is the ‘misguided judgment’? It is clear to everyone that Clarence the Sexual Harasser is a nut job and hasn’t had a coherent legal thought in his miserable life.
He owes his allegiance to the Repugs because no intelligent person would nominate him for anything above being the Justice of the Peace in Crawford, TX.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am115 Exit Stage Left Says:
Freedom Rebel Says:
Back at you.:) I have really missed you and your sense of humor. It wasn’t the same without you.
Yea…I haven’t been here much….Mostly just lurking and not posting….Still having trouble focusing….Things still suck, but not so much today.
It will just take time. Some wounds take longer to heal. It was nice to see you at the Zoo posting. You had me worried…
August 18th, 2008 at 11:20 amgood_golly2 Says:
Obama should have been honest, came right out and stated his position that a “fetus” (i.e. a baby in the womb) has no human rights. Saying that the abortion issue is “above his pay grade” doesn’t cut it.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:31 am
And McDepends’ moronic claim that life begins at conception is worth what ?
A guppy has rights that supersedes a woman’s ?
The only thing that’s cutting is a loud , smelly wet fart …….
August 18th, 2008 at 11:24 amFreedom Rebel Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Freb is such a nice person. :-)
August 18th, 2008 at 11:27 amgood_golly2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
misshusseinmolly Says:
——————————————————————————–
good_golly2 Says
August 18th, 2008 at 10:49 am
That’s really funny. When the Wall Street Journal published an op-ed column from a columnist who liked Obama’s economic plan of the day, liberals jumped all over it, proclaiming that the “conservative” Wall Street Journal somehow endorsed Obama’s economic plan. You’ve been caught in your own hypocrisy. And such a simple trap it was…
_______________________________________________________
Link please, to any post I made claiming the “conservative” WSJ endorsed Obama’s economic plan based on an op-ed column. Until you can provide proof of a double-standard on my part, you have no right calling me a hypocrite.
But YOUR hypocrisy is OK, because you’re just using to “trap” people — right?
August 18th, 2008 at 11:08 am
________________________________________
As you know, in the English language, the pronoun “you” is both singular and plural. In the above usage, it is plural, reflecting back on the plural noun “liberals.” Don’t take it so personally.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am
As you obviously do not know , miss molly is 100 times your mental superior ; you need drop that condescending and arrogant tone in your idiotic posts and stop trying to lecture her on word usage .
As a matter of fact , dog food seems to be your mental superior………
August 18th, 2008 at 11:28 amgood_golly2 Says
August 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am
misshusseinmolly Says:
——————————————————————————–
good_golly2 Says
August 18th, 2008 at 10:49 am
That’s really funny. When the Wall Street Journal published an op-ed column from a columnist who liked Obama’s economic plan of the day, liberals jumped all over it, proclaiming that the “conservative” Wall Street Journal somehow endorsed Obama’s economic plan. You’ve been caught in your own hypocrisy. And such a simple trap it was…
_______________________________________________________
Link please, to any post I made claiming the “conservative” WSJ endorsed Obama’s economic plan based on an op-ed column. Until you can provide proof of a double-standard on my part, you have no right calling me a hypocrite.
But YOUR hypocrisy is OK, because you’re just using to “trap” people — right?
August 18th, 2008 at 11:08 am
________________________________________
As you know, in the English language, the pronoun “you” is both singular and plural. In the above usage, it is plural, reflecting back on the plural noun “liberals.” Don’t take it so personally.
_________________________________________________________
Ahem — because you made a response to ME SPECIFICALLY, I can only assume your accusations were for ME SPECIFICALLY. And yes, I take such accusations personally when they are delivered specifically to me. Of course, now you are now weaseling out of your accusation by using the “I was using ‘you’ as plural” ploy.
Fine. But as long as you’re tarring us all with the same brush, your accusation against me still stands, as I proudly include myself as a liberal. Which brings us back to where we started.
Word of advice for you — if you wish to accuse somebody of something, try posting directly to somebody who’s guilty — not somebody who isn’t. Surely, if liberals “jumped all over” the WSJ’s supposed “endorsement” of Obama’s economic plan, it shouldn’t be hard for you to name some of the posters here who did — complete with links back to their posts. And if any of them criticized you for the Michael Gerson link, then you should have addressed your little “trap” to that person. Not to me.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:32 amZooey Says:
No, the fetus does not have rights, the woman has rights.
That is a fundamental difference between right-wingwers and normal Americans. They believe that the fetus has rights, but women do not.
They think the 14th Amendment was written exclusively to protect George W. Bush from the voters of Florida.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:33 amDid McCain cheat when he mentioned judges before they were mentioned? It’s very possible, wouldn’t be the first time. We all remember what he did to his first wife. The more likely reason he said what he did is that the neural networks in his brain are no longer functioning properly. As a caregiver to a person with dementia I can see the early signs. This is serious business and is a legitimate issue that should be brought up the Democrats. No more tippy-toeing around it.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:35 amthis is the link to the CNN transcript of the “faux-rum” (good one, spencers mom)
now, if one uses the control-f search method, using the word “Justice”, one finds that the first mention of the word was this question to OBAMA, who was first:
WARREN: … Which existing Supreme Court justice would you not have nominated?
(also, note that warren asked for a SINGLE justice – mcPANDER was asked for “justices”, that would be plural)
the next time the word appears, after OBAMA answers the question, is when mcCHEATER said this:
Could I — are we going to get back to the importance of Supreme Court Justices or should I mention —
which was predeeded by this exchange:
you got nuttin’ trooll… and i usually never address troolls.
consider yourself lucky.
mcDUMBAZZ f’d up… he blew the whole charade…
but you go ahead… keep deluding yourself that his continuation of the BushCo policies will be grrreat for this once great nation… if that’s what it takes for you…
sicko.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:35 amgood_golly2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
DJMetal:
Please link to where McCain said that.
You can’t because he didn’t.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:29 am
WARREN: Let’s deal with abortion. I, as a pastor, have to deal with this all the time, every different angle, every different pain, all of the decisions and all of that. Forty million abortions since Roe v. Wade. Some people, people who believe that life begins at conception, believe that’s a holocaust for many people. What point is a baby entitled to human rights?
MCCAIN: At the moment of conception.
You done posting your lies and stupid shit yet ?
August 18th, 2008 at 11:36 amWarren asked him at what point a human being gets human rights: “At the moment of conception,” McCain replied.
Anything else, good_gravy?
August 18th, 2008 at 11:36 amMcCain won because he didn’t have a stroke or visibly poop his pants.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:38 amZooey Says
August 18th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Warren asked him at what point a human being gets human rights: “At the moment of conception,” McCain replied.
_____________________________________________________________
Then McCain advocates issuing Social Security numbers at conception instead of birth, counting a person’s age from conception instead of birth, and allowing a child to be a tax deduction for his/her parents from conception instead of birth?
And, of course, since a blastocyst is a human being with human rights, any abortion performed — even when the pregnancy is a result of rape or incest — is a capital crime, and the mother should be put to death. Is that what McCain is saying?
August 18th, 2008 at 11:42 amMcCain revealed his plan to take the country back to the dark ages. Back alley abortion clinics will flourish under a McCain administration. Christianity will be force fed to the public. The already wealthy and privileged will be elevated into a permanent class of royalty. The rest of us are left to fight his “many wars, my friends” or work for whatever minimum wage the privileged class wants to inflict upon us. To think he won the debate because he could spout one sentence cliches epitomizes the dim thinking that has become the banner of the GOP.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:47 amMaybe a little poop that he had a reporter clean up later.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:48 amI did notice that exactly 3 minutes after good_goony 2.0 issued the challenge for MCMetal to provide proof of what McSane said, she conveniently announced her departure.
methinks she googled the transcripts, saw her mistake, and left!
Typical.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:50 amPathetic.
Typically pathetic.
ACME_Democrat@86
Oh gawd! Another one? Double my pleasure?
1. Lie: The more money received by a candidate means more favors the candidate owes. Oh really? Well Sen. Obama owes a lot to US citizens. Just as I expected. more intelligence from Sen. Obama. For shame!
2. LIE! Ok let’s see here. repugs have proved what they would do in a engery crisis. Start an invasion and occupation and steal Iraq’s oil for big oil profits. two thumbs up!
August 18th, 2008 at 11:56 amDRxJ Says:
——————————————————————————–
I did notice that exactly 3 minutes after good_goony 2.0 issued the challenge for MCMetal to provide proof of what McSane said, she conveniently announced her departure.
methinks she googled the transcripts, saw her mistake, and left!
Typical.
Pathetic.
Typically pathetic.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Claiming that she “has to prepare for Fay”.
Fay Wray ? Fay Vincent ?
Aren’t they both deceased ?
Goon_Jelly is a medium ?
August 18th, 2008 at 11:56 amOh, Gigi, you’re so cute when you’re clueless…
Hey everybody! Gig thinks the WaPo is “liberal”!
And she offers an opinion article written by Michael Gerson, once a speechwriter for George W. Bush and a member of the White House Iraq Group, as a non-biased opionion!
Yes, it appears that Gigi is in mid=season form. All that time posing as other trolls hasn’t slowed her a bit.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:59 amgummitch Says:
good_golly2 Says:
80. Obama should have been honest, came right out and stated his position that a “fetus” (i.e. a baby in the womb) has no human rights. Saying that the abortion issue is “above his pay grade” doesn’t cut it.
Putting words in his mouth? Perhaps you’d like to provide evidence on what his “real” position is, instead of pulling things out of your butt, as you usually do.
He didn’t say “the abortion issue” is above his pay grade, idiot. He said the determination of when life begins is, which is really the only intelligent response to that question.
Please try posting something that isn’t either a lie, a distortion, or an opinion masquerading as fact.
More lies from repugs and more facts from progressives/liberals.
Another thing about repugs falsehoods.
1. Counted in the 40 million abortions are spontaneous abortions which are miscarriages. Records aren’t kept to distinguish between the two. But spontaneous miscarriages happen a hell of a lot.
2. Fetus aren’t tiny babies, they are embryos technically. A woman’s body is hers.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:12 pmGame of Life Says:
More lies from repugs and more facts from progressives/liberals.
Another thing about repugs falsehoods.
1. Counted in the 40 million abortions are spontaneous abortions which are miscarriages. Records aren’t kept to distinguish between the two. But spontaneous miscarriages happen a hell of a lot.
2. Fetus aren’t tiny babies, they are embryos technically. A woman’s body is hers.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
I just can’t say it enough — I luvs me some liberal men. :-)
August 18th, 2008 at 12:23 pmZooey Says:
Freedom Rebel Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Freb is such a nice person. :-)
Thanks Zooey… :)
August 18th, 2008 at 12:24 pmCould I — are we going to get back to the importance of Supreme Court Justices or should I mention –
WARREN: We will get to that.
gg, your ignorance is sinking lower. If it was mentioned why did rev. wig say, “We will get to that” instead of “We will get back to that.”
mmmmmmmmm, huh
keep it coming liar.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:32 pmI’d like to see McSame (or anyone who insists that Human Rights begin at conception) be confronted with the logical extension of that policy — every single miscarriage would have to be investigated as a potential murder, right?
Are they willing to own that part of their simplistic definition?
August 18th, 2008 at 12:36 pmZooey Says:
Freb is such a nice person. :-)
Freb rocks….great name too :)~
August 18th, 2008 at 12:42 pmGame of Life Says:
1. Counted in the 40 million abortions are spontaneous abortions which are miscarriages. Records aren’t kept to distinguish between the two. But spontaneous miscarriages happen a hell of a lot.
So, in McCain’s view, would a woman who hada spontaneous miscarriage be guilty of unintentional manslaughter?
August 18th, 2008 at 1:16 pmExit Stage Left Says:
Zooey Says:
Freb is such a nice person. :-)
Freb rocks….great name too :)~
Thank you… Yours was coined by the great Snagglepuss. Who happens to be one of my favorite cartoon characters when I was little..
August 18th, 2008 at 1:24 pmgood_golly2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
Obviously not shoeless. Now you are just being silly, exposing the weakness of your argument.
shoeless: When do you contend human rights begin? Why do you draw the line at that point, and why?
August 18th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
When scientists say the guppy is actually a formed human ; and it’s because they’re scientists.
They know a hell of a lot more than you do (no surprise there) , and are a hell of a lot more accurate than any ridiculous religious belief………..
August 18th, 2008 at 1:28 pmThanks for the kind words, Gigi. I’ll be glad to do as you ask, Geej, as soon as you are so kind as to educate US as to how a miscarriage should be treated by the law, seeing as there’s a dead human being involved.
Thanks.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:30 pmgood_golly2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
Ralph: You are so brilliant. Please educate us. When do you contend human rights begin? Why do you draw the line at that point, and why?
gg
p.s. For those of you who don’t know (above), “Fay” is the name of the hurricane we are preparing for.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
You’re “preparing” for a hurrican by posting idiotic nonsense to laughably attempt to defend a stupid lying old bastard ?
That must be a meteorological 1st………
August 18th, 2008 at 1:31 pm.
Oh…
… To be as brave as Pakistan.
.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:32 pmMCMetal Says:
“You’re “preparing” for a hurrican by posting idiotic nonsense to laughably attempt to defend a stupid lying old bastard ?”
She needs all those ten cent posts to buy duct tape and plywood.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:35 pm%150 good_golly2 Says:
I know this was for shoeless, but I couldn’t resist.
GiGi, why do you draw the line at conception?
Why not at orgasm or penetration?
WHY IS IT THAT YOUR DRAWN LINE IS THE DRAWN LINE THAT WE MUST ACCEPT?
.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:36 pmHas Gigi informed us of her thoughts on how the law ought to deal with a miscarriage if a fetus gets human rights at conception?
August 18th, 2008 at 1:39 pmBTW goony, scientists disagree all the time — that’s why it’s called SCIENCE, not RELIGION.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:41 pmgood_golly2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
Scientists disagree on this issue, Mental. When do you contend is the moment when human rights begin, and why?
August 18th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
When the woman carrying it decides that it does , idiot.
You really are a moron………
August 18th, 2008 at 1:41 pmGoofy_Jerkoff
You going to apologize for lying about my claim of what McMoron ACTUALLY DID STATE and that I was correct ?
Or are you just another typical GOP/Chimpy tool here like all the other trolls ?
August 18th, 2008 at 1:45 pmgood_golly2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
ralph: I see that you are going to try to avoid the issue by using semantics. Let’s be clear. A spontaneous miscarriage is not what I am referring to in this discussion regarding abortion. When I refer to an abortion in this discussion, I am referring to an abortionist (usually a doctor) intentially causing the death of a baby in the womb a/k/a a “fetus.”
As for your question, a spontaneous miscarriage is treated as a death by natural causes.
Now, your turn, ralph. When do you contend human rights begin? Why do you draw the line at that point, and why?
August 18th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Hey dipshit
A FETUS is not a BABY ; that is why they are spelled differently , in case you hadn’t noticed……….
August 18th, 2008 at 1:47 pmgood_golly2 Says:
As for your question, a spontaneous miscarriage is treated as a death by natural causes.
The woman’s body rejects the fetus, causing it to die. She did not intend to kill it, but she did. Therefore, it is unintentional manslaughter.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:51 pmI’m not avoiding any issue, Gigi.
I made the point that a miscarriage would have to be treated as a potential crime if human rights were conferred upon an embryo at the time of conception.
Your response to that was a challenge to me to define i otherwise.
I thought it fair for you to deal with my point before I dealt with yours.
Now, you say “A spontaneous miscarriage is not what I am referring to in this discussion regarding abortion”
I understand that you don’t want to deal with the issue of spontaneous miscarriage, but it kind of goes along with the territory of naming a fetus as a human being. Your explanation that “a spontaneous miscarriage is treated as a death by natural causes” I agree with that. But how does one determine that a miscarriage was “spontaneous” or naturally-occurring, and not deliberately induced? Presumably one can take conscious steps to induce a miscarriage that could be disguised as spontaneous. This would be murder, would it not?
Shouldn’t the law be concerned with this possibility?
August 18th, 2008 at 1:56 pmgg2, did you take a shower today? If you did, you are guilty of first degree murder. During your shower and subsequent toweling dry, you removed millions of skin cells. Some of those skin cells were still alive and could have been used to clone a human if you had not murdered them.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:57 pmgood_golly2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
MCMetal Says:
——————————————————————————–
Goofy_Jerkoff
You going to apologize for lying about my claim of what McMoron ACTUALLY DID STATE and that I was correct ?
Or are you just another typical GOP/Chimpy tool here like all the other trolls ?
______________________________
You have provided no link to support your contention that McCain said, “A guppy has rights that supersedes a woman’s.”
He said that human rights begin at the moment of conception. I’d ask if you were too stupid to see the difference, but your posts have already given me the answer to that inquiry.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
You want to question my intelligence (or lack thereof) , huh dipshit ?
Here is my comment in its original form :
MCMetal Says:
——————————————————————————–
good_golly2 Says:
Obama should have been honest, came right out and stated his position that a “fetus” (i.e. a baby in the womb) has no human rights. Saying that the abortion issue is “above his pay grade” doesn’t cut it.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:31 am
And McDepends’ moronic claim that life begins at conception is worth what ?
A guppy has rights that supersedes a woman’s ?
The only thing that’s cutting is a loud , smelly wet fart …….
August 18th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Wow , dipshit ; you’re a reading and comprehension challenged nitwit in addition to being an absolute MORON.
Is your husband Forrest Gump ?
August 18th, 2008 at 1:58 pmJeezus, you’re stupid.
Under the conditions you seek to impose, idiot.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:59 pmgood_golly2 Says:
If the Obama campaign really believes that Senator McCain had some unfair advantage, our offer of weekly town hall forums remains on the table–anyplace, anytime.
Will McCain ask Bush if he can borrow his wire for the meetings?
August 18th, 2008 at 2:00 pmgood_golly2 Says:
——————————————————————————–
Well, the John McCain campaign has a challenge for Obama and if his supporters are so sure he can do better than his poor performance with Warren, they will encourage him to accept it.
The facts are that Senator McCain was in a motorcade led by the United States Secret Service and held in a green room with no broadcast feed. If the Obama campaign really believes that Senator McCain had some unfair advantage, our offer of weekly town hall forums remains on the table–anyplace, anytime.
There you go. A chance for Obama to strut his stuff.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Another display of your moronicism
Dipshit
An OPINION article , penned by a GOP/Chimpy backing brainless suckhole like yourself , has what credibility ?
August 18th, 2008 at 2:01 pmgood_golly2 Says:
The facts are that Senator McCain was in a motorcade led by the United States Secret Service and held in a green room with no broadcast feed.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
So that coin toss thing was really a farce, wasn’t it?
Idiot.
Go prepare for your guest “Fay.” Too bad Pat Robertson didn’t pray hard enough to keep it away from you.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:05 pmWell, since he was THERE, I guess it was most expedient.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:12 pmAssuming your non-traditional source is correct (and no reason to assume that, really), then I guess it’s a good thing for the broadcasters and Saddleback that McSame wasn’t scheduled to go on first.
He would have delayed the whole shebang, wouldn’t he?
August 18th, 2008 at 2:18 pmgood_golly2 Says:
Progressives purport to be strong supporters of human rights.
We are. On the other hand, right-wing extremists, like yourself, only support rights until birth. After birth, humans may be spyed upon, arrested without charges, tortured, starved, and discriminated against because of their sexual orientation.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:21 pmgoony: Human rights begin at conception, and end at birth.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:23 pmHere’s a question for you, goony: How many abortions have you had?
August 18th, 2008 at 2:24 pmGigi ignores the fact that she has gotten several answers to her question.
And I have agreed to answer her question, when she fully deals with mine to her.
I’d be glad to answer, but I know how Gigi works — an answer from me would give her another direction to run, and I’d like to keep her focused on this important facet of the “human rights begin at conception” issue she embraces.
It strikes me that Gigi has not fully explored the implications of such a radical policy, beyond its import toward abortion. I’d like to help her explore those implications, but she seems resistant.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:24 pmToasterhead and Katy
August 18th, 2008 at 2:29 pmRegarding Paraguay and the Bushies “retirement locale” — aside from no extradition treaty (at least not at this time) the Bushies purchased land on a huge water table.
If, in the future, the next wars will be fought over water – they will have control of at least a portion of that commodity — not unlike the oil business they locked in for themselves before the current crisis.
Hopefully, the new government of Paraguay will confiscate their land so that they cannot hoard the natural resources which belong to the people of that country.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:37 pmThe fact that McCain said “I was trying to hear through the wall” is a lie. Nicolle Wallace, a spokeswoman for McCain said “The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous.” Notice how the trotted out the POW defense.
http://www.tips-q.com/content/tedious-yet-civil-civil-forum
August 18th, 2008 at 2:39 pmshoeless Says:
good_golly2 Says:
As for your question, a spontaneous miscarriage is treated as a death by natural causes.
The woman’s body rejects the fetus, causing it to die. She did not intend to kill it, but she did. Therefore, it is unintentional manslaughter.
It should be called a spontaneous abortion. And they are counted as abortions.
shoeless makes a better argument.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:46 pm(YAWN)
Does anyone here ever notice that good_goony 2.0 posts a lot of fluff, without really saying anything?
Let’s see if she can answer this one simple question without deflecting to another topic:
August 18th, 2008 at 2:48 pmIs contraception considered abortion?
According to some of these nut cases a human isn’t a human until they are baptized or some other hokus pokus. Please keep your religious $hit off my dinner plate.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:49 pmApparently, Gigi cannot read, or is willfully ignorant.
She ignores the several answers she has already received, at the same time that she refuses to address the issue I brought up with her — namely, the realization that, if one defines “Human Rights” as beginning with conception, as Gigi seeks to do, then one must confront the legal consequences of induced miscarriages that are disguised as spontaneous ones.
Without the legal option of abortion, some women who haven’t planned on becoming mothers are going to take measures to see that their pregnancies don’t go full term. Since, under Gigi’s and McSame’s regime these fetuses would be considered live human beings, these acts would have to be considered murder, right?
So how does the law then determine which miscarriages are natural causes and which are murder?
They must be investigated.
Can Gigi explain how one can get around investigating every miscarriage as a potential crime, if a fetus is a human being with full human rights from the moment of conception?
I don’t see a way around it.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:53 pmY’know, now that you mention it…
That explains why I kept trying to get some sense out of her, and utterly failing to do so.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:55 pmGigi, let’s focus here:
first we’ll deal with your preferred scenario (Human rights begin at conception for the fetus), then we’ll deal with our positions on the question. Deal?
So, given your position that human rights begin at conception (which would necessarily outlaw abortion, as you favor), how does one deal with a miscarriage during pregnancy?
Certainly, one must consider the possibility that it was a spontaneous, natural occurrence — God’s own abortion, let’s say — but one must always consider the possibility that it was induced by deliberate physical stress or chemical ingestion or some other inventive method. In such cases as these, surely one would have to consider the miscarriage as murder. And it would have to be investigated and prosecuted as such, no?
Thanks for your prompt attention to this urgent consequence of your position.
August 18th, 2008 at 3:01 pmBut the law does investigate SOME deaths by natural causes, does it not?
And some murders are disguised as deaths by natural causes, no? That’s how murderers hope to get away with it.
Do you dismiss the possibility that some women will seek to induce a miscarriage and disguise it as a natural cause?
Should we let these women get away with murdering these human beings?
August 18th, 2008 at 3:05 pmAs usual, gg2 ignores the point. If the miscarriage is induced, then it cannot be considered a “natural death”. Therefore every miscarriage would be suspicious, and would have to be investigated. Understand now?
August 18th, 2008 at 3:07 pmNice deflection, good_goony 2.0! Even I couldn’t imagine you’d come up with an alternate definition of “contraception”.
Let’s go to Websters!
the deliberate prevention of conception or impregnation by any of various drugs, techniques, or devices; birth control.
So, again, I ask rather simply, is contraception abortion?
August 18th, 2008 at 3:09 pmThanks, shoeless. That’s what I was trying to say. Serves me right for talking to Gigi like she had a normal IQ.
August 18th, 2008 at 3:11 pmYeah ralph, I dumbed it down as much as I could. If she still can’t understand the point, then it is hopeless.
August 18th, 2008 at 3:13 pmNobody has died of natural causes since the ‘50(sp)<
August 18th, 2008 at 3:17 pmGigi, why do you keep repeating this:
not every apparently natural death is considered suspicious and not every apparently natural death is investigated.
as if it dismisses the reality that some apparently natural deaths ARE considered suspicious and are investigated?
Again I ask (not expecting a cogent answer, but still, I ask):
Do you dismiss the possibility that some women will seek to induce a miscarriage and disguise it as a natural cause?
Should we let these women get away with murdering these human beings?
August 18th, 2008 at 3:23 pmWell ralph, she is just going to pretend that deaths are not investigated because that is the only way to avoid the sticky ramifications of McCain’s extremist viewpoint.
When McCain establishes rights for fetuses, the police forces will need special Abortion Prevention Squads. All women who become pregnant will have to register with the authorities so they can be closely monitored throughout their terms in order to make sure they do not induce a miscarriage.
August 18th, 2008 at 3:31 pmshoeless Says:
Well ralph, she is just going to pretend that deaths are not investigated because that is the only way to avoid the sticky ramifications of McCain’s extremist viewpoint.
When McCain establishes rights for fetuses, the police forces will need special Abortion Prevention Squads. All women who become pregnant will have to register with the authorities so they can be closely monitored throughout their terms in order to make sure they do not induce a miscarriage.
Can you imagine the time-off with pay women would get?
August 18th, 2008 at 3:42 pmThis is a compromise by the Republicans. They won’t allow women to have equal rights, so they will at least give rights to their fetuses.
August 18th, 2008 at 4:11 pmGigi, as I said before, I will be glad to give you an answer as soon as you stop dancing around my question.
Good luck with Fay.
August 18th, 2008 at 4:56 pmAll death must state the cause(s), natural causes isn’t a viable reason any longer and therefore not allowed on death certificates.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:47 pm“When do human rights begin, and why?”
When they can hire a lawyer and because they have the cash and can.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:56 pm