NYT forced to run its fourth correction to a Kristol column.
NYT forced to run its fourth correction to a Kristol column.
In yesterday’s New York print edition of the New York Times, columnist Bill Kristol attacked Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL), based on inaccurate information about Saturday’s Saddleback Civil Forum. The Times then quietly revised the column — without a correction — in time for the national print and online editions. Today, Times has published a correction:
In some editions of his column on Monday about the presidential forum at Saddleback Church in California, William Kristol said that there seemed to be no basis for charges that John McCain was not in a “cone of silence” during Barack Obama’s interview with the Rev. Rick Warren, and could therefore have heard questions posed first to Senator Obama. Senator McCain was in a motorcade for part of Senator Obama’s interview. A statement from his campaign said that he “never heard or saw any of Senator Obama’s appearance.”
Yesterday’s column was the fourth time that Kristol has had to correct factual errors since he debuted in January. (HT: Brendan Nyhan)
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ell-o-f’in ell!
August 19th, 2008 at 12:07 pmWow. Four glaring factual errors in 8 months. That’s some great columnist they bought…
Congrats, NYT!!
August 19th, 2008 at 12:09 pmAh — but does the NYT run “corrections” for Kristol’s lame attempts at humor?
August 19th, 2008 at 12:09 pm.
So the Senator McCheated?
.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:10 pmWow — that “librul media” mouthpiece is sure out to get Sen. McCain.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:13 pmLet’s just contemplate the shitstorm that would be raining down from the Right, had the situations been reversed — had Obama been “in his limo” while Grampy was answering questions on national TV (and satellite radio), and then come out of the gate seemingly fully prepared for questions he had supposedly never heard before?
I shudder to think about it.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:13 pmWasn’t this up yesterday?
August 19th, 2008 at 12:14 pmThe NYT writes:
So, they distribute different editions based on…
This implied that in some editions of Bill’s column on Monday were correct…
.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:15 pmThen how come McSame answered one of the questions before it was finished being asked?
August 19th, 2008 at 12:15 pmWish I could be that incompetent at my job and not have to worry about any repercussions. Although it is predictable (given his history), this is getting ridiculous.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:15 pmDoes the NYT have a cap on the number of retractions they are forced to print before the author is relieved of his/her duties? Just asking…
Obama’s people were successful at demonstrating that McStain could have cheated without saying that he did cheat.
However, such differences are too nuanced for the average American TV vidiot. Gotta learn to hit faster and hit harder. If McStain and Co. are willing to “call a spade a spade”, how about we “call a liar a liar”?
PEACE
August 19th, 2008 at 12:16 pmI still have a rather HUGE problem with a religious mega-church hosting a political forum in FAITH.
Separation of church and state anyone?
August 19th, 2008 at 12:17 pmProblem is, the nyt is the mighty wurlitzer and the rest of the MSM creates an echo-chamber by repeating the lies.
It does not matter if krystol or anyone else there promotes lies and then issues a “correction” or “clarification”, because the lies reverberate through the mainstream media.
The corrections are not repeated or noted in the rest of the MSM. This is how they “catapult the propaganda”.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:18 pmWhat a finely parsed denial! Of course, he could have gotten the questions from an aide who listened! Or via email on a Blackberry! (They really think the American people are dumb!!)
Rev. Rick Warren has some explaining to do. He misrepresented the facts. Time to show some character, Reverend.
This morning NPR had a teaser on a story about game show cheating back in the day. Sounds like our lapdog press could do a story on McCain cheating in league with Warren.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:18 pmIf the NYT was K-12, I think we’d know what grade Kristol would be — and held back 5 times.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:19 pmDanCaveman Says:
Wish I could be that incompetent at my job and not have to worry about any repercussions.
You just need to become a Republican senator, then you don’t have to show up to work for months at a time, continue to collect full pay, and still have the benefit of taking full credit for legislation you didn’t support!
PEACE
August 19th, 2008 at 12:20 pmIs it just me, or is any one else getting tired of hearing about the Christianist Brokeback Saddle Forum?
I think Obama walked right into a “cone of sh¡t” on this one.
¶ AIO
August 19th, 2008 at 12:20 pmmisshusseinmolly Says:
That’s the same propaganda warren’s PR firm tried to “catapult.” Everyone was suppose to know that shielding candidates from questions/answers was a “gentleman’s agreement” and that becuase warren snickered when he said “code of silence”, we were all suppose to know that it was, you know, a “joke.”
Course this lie isn’t consistent with warrens direct statements/reactions to the controversy, but the truth doesn’t matter when the echo-chamber repeats lies.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:20 pmThe New York Times:
All the News that’s Fit to Print… and Bill Kristol, too.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:20 pmRUCerious Says:
——————————————————————————–
Wasn’t this up yesterday?
RUCerious — Not really, no. Yesterday was the “erasing,” today the official correction.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:23 pmspencers mom & DanCaveman
Respectfully – NONE OF THIS IS ABOUT COMPETENCE. This administration has achieved a degree of criminality that may have never been equaled in US history – perhaps global history.
This is an example of how they get away with it. Please, can we put the “incompetence” meme to rest?
Even if some of the major players are ignorant and ill-informed, they are extremely “successful” in achieving an agenda this is tearing apart this nation and ruining it’s fiscal integrity.
If this is “incompetence”, I’d hate to see what you think would represent a more “competence” neocon/repug administration!
August 19th, 2008 at 12:25 pmI can believe that McCain didn’t see or hear any of Obama’s portion of the program. That was because Warren had given McCain a copy of the questions beforehand. Warren is a right wing evangelical, so where would be the benefit for him if McCain did poorly.
McCain way way too smooth to not have been given the questions beforehand. I find it very hard to believe that at that forum McCain all of a sudden became articulate.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:28 pmThe NYT isn’t forced to make any corrections to Asshat Kristol’s batshit insanity — they volunteer.
Cowards.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:28 pmoh – and the folks behind all this are laughing all the way to the bank. Have people forgotten that TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS are totally unaccounted for in Iraq.
Does anyone really want to say this is due to “incompetence” – let’s get honest about what we are dealing with please.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:28 pmWhen the NYT opts to hire the founder of the Project for a New American Century (now defunct on the Web), and one of the loudest promoters of the war against Iraq, – that says something about replacing warmonger and liar, Judith Miller, as the mouthpiece for lies and propaganda.
It’s all a sad joke….and few people know it. So is the entire election process. Election fraud is NOT the Real Problem:
August 19th, 2008 at 12:30 pmWell, it seems Kristol klear that Mr. Kristol Ball has a ReichWing agenda.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:30 pmMcCain’s McCain. He’ll lie, cheat and take undeserved credit for anything, if it advances his goal – but this Warren fellow showed in graphic form that he was unqualified to hold this debate. The denials I have heard never say that McCain was alone, while waiting in the green room for his turn, simply that McCain couldn’t hear the questions being posed by Warren to Obama. The way in which the denials are worded leaves room for others to have watched the Obama segment, and to then have briefed McCain, either by phone, or in person.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:32 pmPatty @#20 ~ Thanky, I gets so dabnaggity confustabulated when the erasin and the retractin and the correktin is all goin on at once!
August 19th, 2008 at 12:33 pmI’m profoundly surprised McIIIrd wasn’t wearing one of them boxy things on his back.
You know, the one with the lil earpiece doodad attached?
August 19th, 2008 at 12:34 pmI have to stop and wonder why Kristol’s dad left the NeoCon movement in the hands of his retarded son? This assklown has never gotten anything right in his entire Weakly (sub)Standard journalistic existence. And that shit-eating grin always plastered on his face is enough to make me puke.
But I guess he represents the ‘best and brightest’ of the NeoCon Repugs. Which is scary in its own way when you think about it.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:35 pmBill Kristol is a drunk.
A person doesn’t get a face that consistently pink without drinking too much and/or high blood pressure.
¶ AIO
August 19th, 2008 at 12:35 pmAlphaLiberal Says:
Rev. Rick Warren has some explaining to do. He misrepresented the facts. Time to show some character, Reverend.
The Rev. flat out lied. When McCain came on stage he told the audience that McCain had been in a “cone of silence”. You can’t tell me that Warren didn’t know that McCain didn’t arrive until Obama’s part was almost done.
I also wonder why Obama went first. This whole thing was a set-up and I hope that Obama isn’t dumb enough to agree to do anything like this again. I think it was a mistake for him to agree to do it in the first place.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:39 pmAnd that shit-eating grin always plastered on his face is enough to make me puke.
Kristol’s smug grin is the icon for wingnut welfare.
You don’t have to be lucid, factally correct, logical, or ethical – all those journalism bugaboos – just grind out a bit of red meat, and the boss is happy.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:40 pmOh, I just had a thought. Maybe Warren wasn’t lying when he introduced McCain. Perhaps they put him in the “cone of silence” for one minute. Then Warren could truthfully say that “McCain was in a cone of silence”.
That’s how Republicans lie. They parse their words.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:40 pmAnother Joe Says:
The corrections are not repeated or noted in the rest of the MSM. This is how they “catapult the propaganda”.
This is why 10% of Faux News viewers believe Obama is a Muslim. Spread the FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR
August 19th, 2008 at 12:42 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says: I also wonder why Obama went first. This whole thing was a set-up and I hope that Obama isn’t dumb enough to agree to do anything like this again. I think it was a mistake for him to agree to do it in the first place.
He’s pandering. He shouldn’t have done it based on the fact that it mixed church and state. But, as time goes by, I become more and more concerned with the inability for this country to elect a person of reason – rather than faith, which is a complete rejection of reason.
We joke about moving to Canada or elsewhere, but it’s a becoming serious possibility for me a little further down the road if church ans state continue to be lovers.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:46 pmOh, I just had a thought. Maybe Warren wasn’t lying when he introduced McCain. Perhaps they put him in the “cone of silence” for one minute. Then Warren could truthfully say that “McCain was in a cone of silence”.
Or, they used a cut-out: someone listening by cell phone, and relaying the questions (and Obama’s answers) to Mc. Stammer.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:46 pmI only use the NYT to start the barbeque and house-train the puppy.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:49 pmFor those of you old enough to remember, there was a quiz show on where the contestants were in a sound proof booth and supposedly couldn’t hear anyone giving the answers to the questions. Only problem was this guy Van Doran, I think, was given the answers through his headphones by the show’s producers so he could continue to win.
I thought of that as soon as this whole story broke.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:49 pmI agree Joe,
This was definitely intentional on the part of Kristol. It is just as equally frustrating that the NYT wouldn’t take pride in factual, upstanding reporting and pull this schmuck from their pages. I suppose it is no surprise since they knew what they were getting into when hey hired him.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:51 pmThe right has to bring religion into the fray because it helps them frame the abortion issue that they have been running on and don`t seem to be getting anywhere with it and the same with the gay marriage issue.If the REICH got rid of these two issues they would have nothing else to run on.If Mcwars runs in Iraq,the economy and alternative energy and a host of other issues he loses to Obama so abortion and gay marriage are in the near future for the old man, wait till we see the attack ads on Obama and his voting no for medical attention to babies born from a botched abortion, when in fact he voted no because the entire bill would have ended abortion completely for Illinois women.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:52 pmchristopher wiwi Says: The right has to bring religion into the fray because it helps them frame the abortion issue that they have been running on and don`t seem to be getting anywhere with it
Except that the bible is riddled with abortion, infantcide, and murder in general.
Not once, ever, does Jesus say that abortion is wrong. In fact, he clearly states his support of the OT where the Christian god is the most prolific abortionist of all.
Even their ‘good book’ doesn’t support their rabid stand on the issue.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:56 pmMcCain’s campaign continually disrespects Obama and then they accuse Obama of playing the race card. Then they flat out cheat on these questions but before they get caught they blast Obama for accusing them of cheating. The best defense is a good offense.
We all know McCain cheated and his performance in future debates will prove it. Unless of course he cheats and gets the questions for those too. Anyway, until McCain can prove that he didn’t cheat, he cheated, end of story.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:57 pmDaryll Says: If Senator McCain told pastor Warren that he did not listen to the forum, he obviously didn’t listen to the forum! Sen. McCain would never lie in the house of the Lord. He is a christian. Just admit it, Sen. McCain looked like our President last Saturday.
Christians never lie? That’s the funniest load of crap I’ve heard from you in a while, and you spew a lot of crap Darryl.
Go read the bible – the whole bible from cover to cover and come back and tell us how moral your god named Jealousy really is.
LOL. Silly ignorant Christian.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:58 pmHey Daryll,
Is Ted Haggard a Christian?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:00 pmHi Daryll:
August 19th, 2008 at 1:00 pmBut I thought Huckabee was gonna be our president. Will you ever explain how you god can get shit so incorrect. I thought we were talking you know, like all powerful and shit…
Daryll Says: He just gave us a glimpse of his true colors.
Which is the same color as your color Darryl. LOL
Crying because oil prices are dropping and oil-man T. Boone Pickens is endorsing non-oil energy instead? See, we told you putting your faith in money wasn’t going to buy you happiness.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:01 pmA statement from his campaign said that he “never heard or saw any of Senator Obama’s appearance.”
August 19th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Daryll Says: Thou shalt not kill.
I’m a pacifist vegan who believes in real sex education in high schools, and the avialability of birth control toi people who’ve decided to have sex but don’t want to procreate. Your god, however, is a prolific abortionist. Here’s the proof:
Pro-Abortion bible passages:
Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?
Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.
Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.
Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.
2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?
http://www.evilbible.com/god%27s%20not%20pro-life.htm
August 19th, 2008 at 1:04 pmMcCain’s people were seated in the audience during Obama’s segment. Does anybody believe that they didn’t use their Blackberries to transmit the questions. Only people with absolutely no moral like Daryll would testify to that.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:04 pmbob hussein lablah Says:
Hey Daryll,
Is Ted Haggard a Christian?
Well, he is a christian in that kneels at at least one alter. Kind of the same ’stance’ that another Repug christian, Larry takes, right Daryll?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:04 pmDaryll Says: It is a serious sin to lie in God’s house. Mr. McCain has a spiritual conscience. Obama lost.
I’m sure it’s also a serious sin to poke little alter boys, but that hasn’t actually stopped a whole lot of priests or pastors, now has it? And really, what’s a little white lie in comparison to diddling children?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:06 pmWhat’s for dinner, Darryl, fried squirrel?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:07 pmBut Pastor Warren lied by saying he had kept McCain in a cone of silence. Are you saying he’s less of a Christian than John McCain?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:08 pmAugust 19th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Daryll,
Do you think Ted Haggard ever lied in the house of God?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:09 pmDaryll Says:
Yes.
But, is he a genuine Christian?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:09 pmbob hussein lablah Says:
Daryll,
Do you think Ted Haggard ever lied in the house of God?
Bob,
I think he lied and got laid in the house of god.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:10 pmDaryll says:
August 19th, 2008 at 1:12 pmThe VP spot is still up for grabs.
—-
So to make you f’ed up prophesy correct your kooky god is gonna crock McCain? Is that what your big cheese told you?
Here’s a question, Daryll: did you know Haggard was lying before he came out and confessed?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:12 pmWhat is your motive for posting here, Darryl? To date, everything you’ve vouched hasn’t actually appeared in the bible, or you’ve misinterpreted or conveniently omitted the bible’s teachings.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:12 pmUhh, Daryll,
Teddy dropped out of the “Cure the Queer’ program he went to in California. Said he couldn’t take it any more.
Sorry to disappoint, as I know how much you worshiped Haggard.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:13 pmGod never encouraged people to shout. Why are you so vain and vicious, Darryl?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:13 pmYou see Darryl, people who take knowledge seriously are naturally liberal, even without being into politics and indentifying themselves as such.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:16 pmDaryll Says: Being a liberal, you have already given away your stones. Therefore, you have no stones to throw. Liberalis=Sin.
Jesus was a liberal. I’m sure he’s glad to hear that you think he = sin.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:16 pmBeing a liberal, you have already given away your stones.
Who needs stones, when you have bread and fish?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:17 pmAnd you call yourself a “Christian”. You’re going to end up the worst part of Hell you sick phuck.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:18 pmDaryll Says: I’ll continue to pray that you cope with Obama’s lost.
What a freaking waste of time. Go feed some hungry people or babysit for a single mother who you forced to have a baby instead.
I don’t need an Invisible Man to tell me that Obama’s gonna win. I have logic and reason, which are ultimately more reliable and accurate.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:20 pmSo for real Daryll. Is your cloud guy gonna off McCain or what?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:20 pmDaryll Says: He was only misinformed. That was the true crime.
It’s a true crime to be misinformed? Then you are due for a life sentence…
August 19th, 2008 at 1:21 pmLooks like Daryll is making up for his 5 day weekend he took. Racking up those McCain Posting Points like a Mo’ Fo’!!
Gonna get your Johnny Boy Bobblehead with those logoed Depends, so it can sit right next to your dashboard jesus doll?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:21 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
Guess no one else thinks its important – but I think we cannot understand the full-extent of the deception without recognizing that yesterday, warren’s PR firm was saying that any implication that there was anything more than a “gentleman’s agreement” was meant as a joke.
They claim that we should all know this because warren laughed. Of course, this does not adequately provide cover and cannot possibly be true.
They directly stated that warren KNEW mccain was not in the building.
Given warren’s fake surprise, denials that he knew, and now reports that BOTH candidates were tipped-off, it is clear that warren is a lying liar and mccain was pandering.
It is proof that this is a sham event. IMHO, that is the bigger story here – an adulterer is hiding behind a preacher that is providing him cover with the words of Jesus.
I can understand a preacher telling mccain that a loving God forgives him for his sins, but cannot except the deception on BOTH mccain and warren’s part.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:22 pmJust answer my question, Daryll.
And how dare you question my patriotism.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:22 pmunbelievable Says:
He’s pandering. He shouldn’t have done it based on the fact that it mixed church and state. But, as time goes by, I become more and more concerned with the inability for this country to elect a person of reason – rather than faith, which is a complete rejection of reason.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
______
Faith doesn’t have to be a rejection of reason, and nor does reason have to be a rejection of faith. The two are not mutually exclusive – in fact, they’re extremely complementary. I wouldn’t call Charles Darwin or Albert Einstein “rejecting reason,” and yet both were quite religious individuals.
It is closed-mindedness that rejects reason – and faith, for that matter. Yes, closed-mindedness finds easier bedfellows in the corporatized, industrialized faith industry produced by the corruption of faith. But a pure, personal faith can and should go hand-in-hand with reason.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:22 pmNope, the true crime is that you choose party over country and party over faith and make excuses for anything your people do no matter how sinful. Shame on you Daryll.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:23 pmDaryll Says: Show some true patriotism.
He cheated on his wife. Hello? Where’s your outrage over that?
You think a war hero can’t be a lying jerk? Well, like most things, you’re wrong.
Patriotism is standing up to people like you, and I think we’re doing a great job!
August 19th, 2008 at 1:23 pmDaryll Says:
Another thing, how can you guys make accusations about Sen. McCain under false pretenses. This is a former P.O.W. Show some respect to this honorable man. This man was treated horribly by the Vietnamese, and the last thing that he needs is for Americans to treat him horribly. Show some true patriotism.
If McCain wants to run his campaign on the P.O.W. card, he should apply to President Obama to be SecDef.
You should know that the presidency encompasses much, much more than cheerleading for the Pentagon, right?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:25 pmDaryll Says:
Being a liberal, you have already given away your stones. Therefore, you have no stones to throw.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
______
You’re right. This is true – we have given away our stones. We recognize that we as individuals and as a society are not perfect, and seek to improve ourselves and our society before blaming and scapegoating others for our sins.
Sounds exactly like the kind of thing Jesus would’ve wanted, doesn’t it?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:26 pmHey Daryll,
If McDepends is such a patriot warrier, why does he get a ‘D’ from most of the veteran’s groups for his voting records for us veterans?
Wouldn’t a true patriot warrer stand up for his fellow vets?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:27 pmSo Daryll:
August 19th, 2008 at 1:27 pmWhen is McCain gonna be terminated by your god to get that freak Huckabee in? Come on dude I need answers and what with that weird hotline you have your oddball god must have clued you in to the plan right or did you and it have some sort of falling out and now it doesn’t talk to you anymore?
“This true patriot was tortured and beaten. How dare you criticize someone who was willing to sacrifice his life for you.”
By signing a confessional?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:28 pmDaryll Says:
This true patriot was tortured and beaten. How dare you criticize someone who was willing to sacrifice his life for you.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
______
McCain made the choice to subject himself to public scrutiny and criticism when he chose to run for political office. It is not just our right as Americans, taxpayers, and voters to criticize him, it is our patriotic duty.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:28 pmNicely argued, H. Toasterhead.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:28 pmDaryll @ #47 says
August 19th, 2008 at 1:28 pmThous shalt not kill.
Then God says go forth and kill every man woman child livestock, break everything they had, wipe them out from the face of the earth. Is it okay to kill SOME people and not others? How do we know which ones?
Huh?
Daryll, where were you yesterday?
There was a global warming thread, and a thread where California judges forced a doctor to treat a lesbian.
You woulda loved it, dude.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:29 pmhussein toasterhead Says: Faith doesn’t have to be a rejection of reason, and nor does reason have to be a rejection of faith. The two are not mutually exclusive – in fact, they’re extremely complementary. I wouldn’t call Charles Darwin or Albert Einstein “rejecting reason,” and yet both were quite religious individuals.
Faith, by definition, is a rejection of reason. Albert Einstein and Charles Darwin post-Evolutionary Theory were not religious. It’s because they were men of reason that they both rejected a personal god.
It is closed-mindedness that rejects reason – and faith, for that matter. Yes, closed-mindedness finds easier bedfellows in the corporatized, industrialized faith industry produced by the corruption of faith. But a pure, personal faith can and should go hand-in-hand with reason.
I didn’t define faith. It is, by it’s own admission, a belief in a thing without proof. That is not reason, nor is it reasonable.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:30 pmDaryll Says:
This true patriot was tortured and beaten. How dare you criticize someone who was willing to sacrifice his life for you.
I am a veteran who served and was wounded in battle, yet you call me a sinner and “liberal”, just like you have other veterans here on this blog, you hypocritical POS.
You want it both ways and life doesn’t work like that, fake Christian.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:31 pmDaryll Says: This true patriot was tortured and beaten. How dare you criticize someone who was willing to sacrifice his life for you.
I wasn’t alive.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:34 pmWayne,
Daryll, like most Repug Chickenhawks, wouldn’t know the first thing about combat and what it means to watch your brother’s back in a firefight.
They always expect someone else to do their dirty work for them and just wave the flag on the Forth and wear the flag pins made in China.
Must be a sad life they have to live, always hiding behind someone else to keep the Boogeyman away!
August 19th, 2008 at 1:37 pmDaryll, my question was: Did you know Haggard was lying before he came out and confessed?
And yes, I’ll question McCain’s honesty. I find it to be my patriotic duty.
Did McCain cheat on his wife before or after he was a POW?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:38 pmJust admit it, Sen. McCain looked like our President last Saturday.
Well, Daryll, that’s the problem. He looked way too much like President Bush.
Time for change.
Time for wisdom, which — despite Sen. McCain’s time as a POW and time in the Senate — he has failed to garner.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:39 pmIs it save to assume Daryll is clearly opposed to torture?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:40 pmI dont ever recall that the cone of silence ever worked….
August 19th, 2008 at 1:40 pmlet’s sub safe for save. K?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:41 pmCan I submit this as goofiest comment of the day?
“If it wasn’t for his courage, you may not have been alive.”
August 19th, 2008 at 1:42 pmHere you go Darryl:
Was the United States founded as a Christian Nation?
John Adams- 2nd president, Proposed and signed the Treaty of Tripoli
“Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1500 years.”
letter to John Taylor, 1814, quoted by Norman Cousins in In God We Trust: The Religious Beliefs and Ideas of the American Founding Fathers (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1958), p. 106-7, from James A. Haught, ed., 2000 Years of Disbelief
“The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles.”
letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815
Thomas Jefferson- 3rd president, Drafted Declaration of Independence, Signer of Constitution, influential on 1st Amendment
“I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.”
“Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies.”
“Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites.” [Notes on Virginia]
“History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes” [Letter to von Humboldt, 1813].
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.” [Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823]
“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own” [Letter to H. Spafford, 1814].
“…an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, ‘Jesus Christ…the holy author of our religion,’ which was rejected ‘By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.’” [Jefferson's Biography]
James Madison- 4th president, influential in the Constitutional Convention, Proposed the 1st Amendment
“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”
“In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.”
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.” [April 1, 1774]
Benjamin Franklin- signer of Declaration of Independence, signer of Constitution
“The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.”
[Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758]
“Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.”
“He (the Rev. Mr. Whitefield) used, indeed, sometimes to pray for my conversion, but never had the satisfaction of believing that his prayers were heard.” [Franklin's Autobiography]
George Washington – 1st president
After Washington’s death, Dr. Abercrombie, a friend of his, replied to a Dr. Wilson, who had interrogated him about Washington’s religion replied, “Sir, Washington was a Deist.”
In a sermon of October 1831, Episcopalian minister Bird Wilson said,
“Among all of our Presidents, from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism.”
http://bmccreations.com/one_nation/nation.html
August 19th, 2008 at 1:42 pmDaryll Says: If it wasn’t for his courage, you may not have been alive.
What?
How did McCain being in a POW camp cause my parents to have sex?
You’re way beyond ridiculous now.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:45 pmJust be careful that when you are throwing those sins to the east and west you don’t accidentally set off those WMD’s. You might also be cautious of the north and south…
August 19th, 2008 at 1:45 pmDaryll says: McCain committed adultery, but admitted his sin and sought the Lord for forgiveness.
Did he also ask the Lord’s forgiveness for joining in his mother’s lawsuit against his first wife? Did he ask the Lord’s forgiveness for each time he has misrepresented his actual voting record?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:45 pmI’m being patriotic, dimbulb Darryl – by FLAGGING every g*ddamned one of your stupid Christofascist posts.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:45 pmWhat I don’t get is why Daryll shows up on a thread about Bill Kristol chalking up his fourth correction in eight months as a NYT columnist.
WTF?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:46 pm… oh, and did McCain ask the Lord’s forgiveness for calling me “his friend”? ‘Cause that’s a lie he keeps on tellin’.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:47 pmunbelievable Says:
——————————————————————————–
Daryll Says: If it wasn’t for his courage, you may not have been alive.
What?
—
August 19th, 2008 at 1:47 pmyou might also notice the odd construction which seems to imply that you are not alive at this time but were at sometime in the past
Daryll Says: Jesus said once you seek forgiveness, he would throw your sins to the east and west.
He also said that he would return within the lifetimes of those to whom he was speaking prior to his death. But he didn’t do that, now did he?
So, is Jesus a liar or simply a manifestation of your low self-esteem that requires a saviour and a daddy-figure?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:48 pmMcCain may not be as evil as Bush, but he may be even more stupid.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:48 pmI’ll second that. In one fell swoop Daryll knocked T5 out of the race. And T5 was on a roll, too. But Daryll, this one comment is just about the most inane thing you’ve ever uttered here.
Congrats.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:48 pmPastor Haggard repented so, to me, that incident never happened.
Whatever, Daryll. Still didn’t answer my question. I love your logic that stuff just goes away when you repent.
The saddest part is that McCain is banking on your gullibility, Daryll.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:48 pmDaryll Says:
Everytime I hear Sen. McCain’s name, I become motivated and more emboldened to accomplish things, because of his suffering.
Every veteran that gets wounded or captured suffers.
Just being a wounded vet or a pow does not make anyone a saint.
Cunningham was a war hero that the movie Top gun was based on, but he is now in prison for being a crook and taking bribes.
Why don’t you worship him too?
John Kerry is a war hero, but you have criticized him, which again makes you a hypocrite.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:49 pmDaryll Says:
Pastor Haggard repented so, to me, that incident never happened.
Wow, talk about loose morals, if you repent when you do something wrong that means it never happened. So if I kill my next door neighbor and then repent, then I never really killed him. Wow, who knew.
I knew the whole Warren thing as rigged when he asked John McSame what his biggest moral failing was. Then McCain said that it was the “breakup” of his first marriage. The way he worded it, it sounded like the “breakup” was both their faults. Why didn’t he say “because I cheated on my wife and then left her for another woman”. That would have been an honest answer. Warren was trying to give McSame an “out” on the subject of his infidelity. Funny thing for a “man of god” to do, don’t you think so Daryll?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:49 pmLadies and Gentlemen!
I proudly present to you….
PARODYLL!
The king of not so subtle parody.
(golf clap)
Please stick around afterwards for the inevitable appearance of bitblt and it’s 3rd person conversations, sure to delight each and every (c)hristian child!
August 19th, 2008 at 1:49 pmWith apologies for ending this sentence in a preposition, it’s the Daryll’s of the country that Mr. Kristol is gearing his writing toward.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:49 pmShould someone point out to Daryll that we didn’t win in Vietnam?
That South Vietnam fell when we withdrew, and that Communism did not spread throughout SE Asia as predicted?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:50 pmdbadass Says: you might also notice the odd construction which seems to imply that you are not alive at this time but were at sometime in the past
Maybe I’m Jesus here testing Darryl… (he’s failing the test). LOL
August 19th, 2008 at 1:51 pmHe’s been back 30 some years and you people pull out the POW card every time he gets caught violating the rules. How about he starts taking some personal responsibility
August 19th, 2008 at 1:51 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
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dbadass Says:
Can I submit this as goofiest comment of the day?
“If it wasn’t for his courage, you may not have been alive.”
I’ll second that. In one fell swoop Daryll knocked T5 out of the race. And T5 was on a roll, too. But Daryll, this one comment is just about the most inane thing you’ve ever uttered here.
Congrats.
—
August 19th, 2008 at 1:51 pmI am particularly taken by the odd construction which seems to imply that the individual in question is not currently among the living but seems to have been at some time in the past
Daryll Says:
If P.O.W.’s like Sen. McCain surrendered to the Vietnamese, it would have shown that we were a spineless and weak country and emboldened other countries to attack this nation.
You are aware, aren’t you, that McSame signed numerous confessions, only a few we know about. For all we know, he did give important information to the Vietnamese.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:52 pmDaryll, they didnt call him PWSongbird for keeping quiet.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:52 pmSorry about making the same point twice. Something odd is happening at this end
August 19th, 2008 at 1:52 pmDaryll Says: Right after work, when you walk toward your car, think about the current freedom and liberty that you have, and thank people like Sen. McCain instead of criticizing him. His war stories should make you very terriful, but proud of people like him.
Actually, I think about all of my relatives buried at Arlington who were smart enough not to get shot down and get captured. There’s even a cousin who got the Metal of Honor for saving people’s lives who is buried there. He’s far more worthy of my respect than McCain.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:53 pmKristol’s NYT record to date:
8 articles / 4 retractions / mistakes / lies, etc.
McCain’s NYT record to date:
0 for 1.
NeoClowns at the Circus don’t guarantee laughter…
August 19th, 2008 at 1:53 pmunbelievable Says:
I didn’t define faith. It is, by it’s own admission, a belief in a thing without proof. That is not reason, nor is it reasonable.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
______
Fair enough. Belief != reason. And by extension, it is impossible to believe in anything that’s provable. You can’t believe in rocks or pickles or photosynthesis – they provably exist.
Belief is reserved for the metaphysical things – the intangible and unmeasurable. Whether your belief is in God or love or human rights or morality or all of the above or none of the above, these beliefs are not reasonable. They can still coexist with reason, however, and I believe that they should.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:54 pmDaryll Says:
If P.O.W.’s like Sen. McCain surrendered to the Vietnamese, it would have shown that we were a spineless and weak country and emboldened other countries to attack this nation.
But McCain did surrender, when he was captured, if he had not, he would be dead.
He also signed the confessions the VC gave him and made confessional videos while he was a pow. Understandable when someone is tortured to the extent he was, so I cannot condemn him for it, but it is a true fact of life.
You are living in a dream world, wake up and see the real world, dude.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:54 pmParodyll says:
His war stories should make you very terriful,
Looks like our favorite faux black man has been reading the Urban Dictionary again, to enhance his gangsta ghetto flyness.
Word!
August 19th, 2008 at 1:55 pmIronic, isn’t it?
That Parodyll praises McCain’s supposed false confessions, yet
believes that the United States policy of torture (water boarding) will result in accurate confessions.
Parodyll, where’s my faux brown sugar luvin?
Word!
August 19th, 2008 at 1:59 pmDaryll Says:
Another thing, how can you guys make accusations about Sen. McCain under false pretenses. This is a former P.O.W. Show some respect to this honorable man. This man was treated horribly by the Vietnamese, and the last thing that he needs is for Americans to treat him horribly. Show some true patriotism.
You know, we have no idea how he was treated by his captors and what he told them. All we have is his word for it. All his disabilities were caused by crashing his plane into a lake. We do know that he signed several confessions but we don’t know what the content of the confessions was. For all we know, he gave the Vietnamese important information they could have used against us. I do doubt that happened, though, because I don’t think that McBush had strategic information in the first place. Would you give important strategic information to a man who has a propensity for crashing airplanes?
August 19th, 2008 at 2:00 pmhussein toasterhead Says: Belief is reserved for the metaphysical things – the intangible and unmeasurable. Whether your belief is in God or love or human rights or morality or all of the above or none of the above, these beliefs are not reasonable. They can still coexist with reason, however, and I believe that they should.
But I can prove I love you by the way I treat you, therefore requiring no belief at all. :) Same is true for many other similar constructs.
Plus, it’s reasonable to care for your relatives. Strength in numbers.
I guess I just see so many valid reasons for kindness, love, etc. that there isn’t a need to believe in it.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:00 pmOk, I just had a post go “poof” and it certainly contained zero swear words. What’s going on here?
August 19th, 2008 at 2:01 pmWell, as much fun as this way, I now get to have the fun of giving a final exam…
Peace
August 19th, 2008 at 2:01 pmGeez we all better scatter beofre the cybernerd Latin Kings come and mess us up real bad…
August 19th, 2008 at 2:02 pmDaryll Says:
——————————————————————————–
If P.O.W.’s like Sen. McCain surrendered to the Vietnamese, it would have shown that we were a spineless and weak country and emboldened other countries to attack this nation.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
_____
“Other countries?” Are you implying that Vietnam invaded the United States?
Well, that’d explain all the pho restaurants in my neighborhood.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:02 pmDRxJ Says:
Looks like our favorite faux black man has been reading the Urban Dictionary again, to enhance his gangsta ghetto flyness.
Word!
August 19th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
______
Dinkin Flicka!
August 19th, 2008 at 2:03 pmDRxJ,
I have to admit I do like when Daryll comes to visit. His posts are quite entertaining.
Kinda like watching a Pee Wee Herman movie.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:03 pmOh wow, this was too weird. I looked up and saw:
Leave a Reply
Logged in as DRxJ. Logout
I logged out and back in and now it says:
Leave a Reply
Logged in as Bilbo Hussein Baggins. Logout
This site is acting really weird.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:04 pmWhat is going on. I just had another vanish for no reason
August 19th, 2008 at 2:04 pmMe too. Had to post the same message 3 times.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:05 pmWhoa. Am I toasterhead or dbadass?
August 19th, 2008 at 2:06 pmupside99,
August 19th, 2008 at 2:07 pmI agree.
I equate it to wrestling.
Yes, it’s mindless entertainment. Yes, it’s not “real”.
But sometimes, it’s sure as hell fun to watch.
Daryll says: Once you get to know him, you will become friends. He is a very personable individual.
I’m sure the young voter whom Sen. McCain called “ya little jerk” following a question that brought up the Senator’s voting record would have words other than “personable” to apply to the lovely senator.
I tend not to consider men who cheat on their wives for younger, wealthier women to be my friends. Nor do I count amony my friends those who routinely need to clarify their words. Remember: “The candidate does not speak for the campaign.”
August 19th, 2008 at 2:07 pmdbadass is unworthy of being mistaken for toasterhead.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:10 pmGreat.
Bilbo and I had a mind meld.
Well, thank goodness it wasn’t Tracy_5 fingers and I.
I really don’t need to be dumbed down.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:11 pmI think SATAN is hot on the trail of Daryll and inadvertently messed up a couple of our posts trying to get to him. I would tell you how I know this but then I’d have to shred you.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:11 pmNow I’m upside99.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:12 pmWeeeeeeeeeee!
this is fun
If only I could be logged in as Darryl.*
*Dark skin, cape and keys to Chevy Tahoe not included.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:14 pmdbadass Says:
dbadass is unworthy of being mistaken for toasterhead.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
______
Yah, I wouldn’t wish that on anyone…
August 19th, 2008 at 2:15 pmCan I be John Kerry? Please!
August 19th, 2008 at 2:16 pmOh sure, SATAN is tracking down Daryll and you guys are cracking wise. Don’t you think we should be helping him? I mean SATAN of course.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:20 pmOh, sure. dbadass chooses the troll that lets him work five minutes a day.
No fair.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:23 pmShayne Says:
Oh sure, SATAN is tracking down Daryll and you guys are cracking wise. Don’t you think we should be helping him? I mean SATAN of course.
Well, we are liberals and liberals = sin so We must be SATAN!
August 19th, 2008 at 2:23 pmNow, now ralph, there’s plenty of slacker trolls to go around.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:25 pmummmmmm, you do realize that SATAN does exist, don’t you?
He just signed a contract with the Penguins, the new arch rivals of my beloved Red Wings.
BOOOOOOO!
August 19th, 2008 at 2:28 pmDamn, doc, that guy even looks like Satan!
Freaky.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:35 pmSatan leave New York for Pittsburgh? I guess that means NY has “shaken the devil off”.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:38 pmApparently SATAN has scared Daryll off. And I don’t care if he plays hockey or ping pong as long as Daryll is scared.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:45 pmdbadass Says:
Satan leave New York for Pittsburgh? I guess that means NY has “shaken the devil off”.
No, the devils are still across the Hudson in Jersey
August 19th, 2008 at 2:59 pmHoly moley! Everyone’s a religious fruitcake: it takes all kinds of fruits and all kinds of nuts to cook a cover story.
August 20th, 2008 at 2:10 amDaryll Says: If Senator McCain told pastor Warren that he did not listen to the forum, he obviously didn’t listen to It is a serious sin to lie in God’s house. Mr. McCain has a spiritual conscience. Obama lost.
You are a brainwashed moron. YOU are lost, ignorant and in dire need of a functional braincell
August 20th, 2008 at 7:29 amDaryll Says:
——————————————————————————–
unbelievable Says:
——————————————————————————–
Daryll Says: This true patriot was tortured and beaten. How dare you criticize someone who was willing to sacrifice his life for you.
I wasn’t alive.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:34 pm Recommend (1) | Report Abuse
——————————————————————————–
If it wasn’t for his courage, you may not have been alive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Daryll I understand you are really, REALLY stupid but exactly what is your point here? You dont really think the Vietnamese were going to build rafts float over to America and commit genocide do you? I mean your ignorance and brainwashing are monumental its true but really no one could possibly be stupid enough to think your idiotic statement made sense
August 20th, 2008 at 7:36 amI gotta say Daryll you are unbelievably stupid but thanks for the free clown show
August 20th, 2008 at 7:41 am