What It Means To Be Progressive
What It Means To Be Progressive
Our guest blogger is John Podesta, the President and CEO of the Center for American Progress Action Fund.
What is progressivism? We all have our own answers to this question. But it’s hard to beat Maury Maverick’s famous — and concise — description of democracy as “liberty plus groceries.” That’s as good an explanation of progressivism as anything I’ve heard.
As I travel the country speaking with students and activists, I’m often asked to offer my own definition of progressive. This is what I frequently suggest:
Progressives believe that America should be a country of boundless opportunity, where all people can better themselves through education, hard work, fair pay, and the freedom to pursue their dreams. We believe that this will be achieved only with an open and effective government that champions the common good over narrow self-interest while securing the rights and safety of its people.
In my new book, The Power of Progress: How America’s Progressives Can (Once Again) Save Our Economy, Our Climate, and Our Country, I outline my own interpretation of progressivism based on history, my personal background, and my years in government and running the Center for American Progress.
Progressivism is rooted in the notion of “progress” — moving from one state of affairs to a better state; from the conservative status quo to new ways of thinking and acting. This was the spirit that allowed progressives to help our country win two World Wars, conquer Gilded Age inequality, make the American Dream a reality for millions of middle class families, and expand civil rights for all our citizens. This is the spirit America needs to apply to today’s challenges.
I’ve posted an excerpt of the book and have also set up a Facebook page with more information and links to buy the book and share with friends. What does progressivism mean to you? I look forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas.
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Lately, I’ve been getting this distinct feeling from fellow Democrats with whom I have disagreement about Obama’s VP choice:
U R not as progressive as me.
I’ll be glad when Bush is gone. Never before have I felt such an urgent sense of political anxiety.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:13 amI wish to destroy the conservative status quo.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:15 amSo, I guess that makes me a progressive revolutionist.
Tracy_5 Says:
Well I guess you can loose the liberty part.
What part of “securing the rights…of its people.” don’t you understand?
August 19th, 2008 at 10:19 amYou know, you really shouldn’t touch the glass part of a CFL bulb like the dude in the book cover. And if we want to be really progressive, it should be an LED bulb. Just sayin.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:24 amI`ll bee glad when the shrub and his crime family are gone, they have systematically destroyed our civil liberties because they didn`t take action before 9-11.What a shame it is for America to have to go through this because ego, power and greed.We need someone to bring our civil liberties and jobs back to this country whether it`s green jobs building cars, wind turbines or solar panels, jobs are what puts groceries on the table……..
August 19th, 2008 at 10:24 amWell, I think the original progressives, people like fighting Bob La Follette of Wisconsin would expand no that definition a bit and probably reduce the obsession with “opportunity.”
Progressives have never been afraid to rein in corporate power. We’ve not been afraid to say when strong regulation is needed to protect the people from marketplace predators and other failures of the market. We’re pro-reform. (that word missing in podesta’s piece).
Progressives put the needs of the people way ahead of market fundamentalism. I wonder if Mr Podesta is willing to challenge corporate power and say it needs to be reined in?
August 19th, 2008 at 10:25 amThis is still the best definition I’ve come across:
August 19th, 2008 at 10:30 am
just want to say thank you john podesta -
August 19th, 2008 at 10:33 amfor CAP and TP, especially… but, thank you…
Tracy_5 Says: Well I guess you can loose the liberty part.
That’s actually what 20 of the last 28 years of Republican rule has gotten us – loss of liberty.
There’s a reason liberal and liberty are so similar.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:34 amI meant to add a link to FightingBob.com. Here’s more on one of the original and highest profile progressives and his “third way,” long before Bill Clinton was even born.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:35 amI wonder if Mr Podesta is willing to challenge corporate power and say it needs to be reined in?
Why don’t you wait and read the book before casting dispersions, mmmkay?
August 19th, 2008 at 10:36 amProgressivism is rooted in the notion of “progress” — moving from one state of affairs to a better state; from the conservative status quo to new ways of thinking and acting.
This says it for me. Throughout history we see examples of the status quo enslaving and oppressing massive numbers of people. Only through progress, the learning from past mistakes, can we hope to achieve freedom for all humanity.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
August 19th, 2008 at 10:36 amWell said, Unb… or should I say our Founding Fathers.
And to me, being Progressive has nothing (or very little) to do with who’s President or who’s in Power. It’s a mindset that believes that the power of the United States lies within its people and its the purpose of the government to channel that power toward the advancement and betterment of the United States’ and the World’s peoples.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:38 amIt means “imagine” not having to lie.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:41 amMcWars The Killer Llama
hahahahahah
heheheheheehehe
Flagged with a laugh.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:44 amMcWars The Name Stealing Unoriginal Killer Llama Says:
What a bunch of crap.
Wow! What a great, well thought out response!
It’s because of your elementary debate skills that I’m proud to be an open minded liberal.
Far better than a closed minded, uneducated rightie.
Keep up the good work, tho. Every time you post, it makes us all appear smarter!
August 19th, 2008 at 10:44 amTracy_5 Says:
What part of “securing the rights…of its people.” don’t you understand?”
Common good over self interest…i.e. the loss of liberty.
Liberty isn’t defined as the right to screw others out of their liberties.
Liberty isn’t defined as the right to put the population in a vice grip with $4.00 gas without the proper survey of supply and demand.
BooooRING! Can we get some better Election 2008 trolls?
August 19th, 2008 at 10:47 amraynman Says: Well said, Unb… or should I say our Founding Fathers.
Yeah, they, and the Iroqois Nation that influenced them deserved all the credit. I just cut and pasted :)
August 19th, 2008 at 10:47 amFrom the bio link above on Bob LaFollette, I recommend anyone dealing with the definition of “progressive” consider this quote that motivated young Bob to become “Fightin’ Bob:”
August 19th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Tracy_5 fingers (our resident women hating bigoted architect from Texas) says:
Common good over self interest…i.e. the loss of liberty.
Riiiiiight.
So the liberty (rights) of a Clan member wanting to lynch all African Americans in his immediate area supersedes the nation’s common good?
No wonder you are narrow minded, self centered, and a hater.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:49 amOh man that Tracy_5 is one stoooopid troll! Our founding fathers assert that even you are more than welcome to the pursuit of happiness(self interest), Tracy. So long as it doesn’t encroach upon others liberties. Is that too hard for you to understand? It’s how a civil society works.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:49 amHey tracy, you are worse than the government.
Still worried about a poster’s personal finances, you sack of dung?
August 19th, 2008 at 10:50 amTracy_5 Says: Common good over self interest…i.e. the loss of liberty.
Nonsense. Liberty in a Democracy is is about the common good. Of, by and for the PEOPLE.
Plus, when a society cares for it’s weakest members, it is self-interest.
You’re not going to flourish in a neighborhood where all your neighbors have the Bubonic Plague (or some other such disease) because Corporate interests (that’s what you really mean by self-interest) allow greedy pigs to make 475 times their average employee’s salary.
Read the Constitution. There’s NOTHING conservative about it.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:51 amTracy_5 Says:
Common good over self interest…i.e. the loss of liberty.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:43 am
______
Liberty IS a common good. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?
August 19th, 2008 at 10:51 amTracy_5 fingers Says:
Liberty is the freedom from government control.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! This from the racist woman hater who’s supported the current administration for the last 7 years.
Yea, we’ve had such “freedom from government control” under Bush. That’s why moderate Conservatives are distancing themselves from him.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
August 19th, 2008 at 10:53 amIsn’t it funny how when you paraphrase the Constitution and/or the Declaration of Independence, the trolls start agitating about liberals stealing freedom. It’s almost as if they don’t believe in the Constitution or the words of the Founding Fathers.
And we all know that can’t be true…..
August 19th, 2008 at 10:54 amLiberty is the freedom from government control. Government control of the population is something that liberals are champions of.
Oh, ok…well, let me know when that becomes effective. My ears are still ringing from all of that shrub pro-war propaganda.
Too bad war was never declared.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:55 amTracy_5 fingers Says:
Are you going to help shoeless by providing some evidence anytime soon?
Sure.
By attacking a single mom who is going back to school.
By saying she does not contribute to society.
By knowing details of her life, and then criticizing her.
By acknowledging that you have “black” friends.
You’re welcome!
August 19th, 2008 at 10:58 amGreat posts, DRxJ. Tracy has both hands free after a long night: She architected the shaving of of Karl Rove’s behind.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:59 amLeaders can change the world, for better or worse. Dr. Deming taught continuous improvement and a comprehensive theory of management.
His last book, The New Economics: For Industry, Government, Education should be required reading for all elected officials.
Most management practices in The White House, the Capital, corporate board rooms and executive suites cause huge losses. As Dr. Deming was famous for saying, “Will they ever learn?” Bush proves himself incapable with each disastrous decision.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:59 amTracy_5 Says: Liberty is the freedom from government control. Government control of the population is something that liberals are champions of.
You really should look up the word “Democracy”. WE arethe government. We’re a self-governing nation. Why in the world would you want freedom from your own self-government? That’s asinine.
Control of the CORPORATIONS, not peple, is what liberalism is about. It’s you Cons who want to control people (gay marriage, abortion, consentual adult sex, etc.)
Liberalism and Democracy are compatable. It’s why our Liberal Founding Fathers instituted a Democracy.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:00 amgood_golly3 Says:
When will “progressives” progress to the point where they are willing to grant basic human rights to babies in the womb and to progress beyond the barbaric, antiquated and selfish notion that the mother has the right to kill that baby up to the moment it fully exits the birth c a n a l and takes its first breath?
When will goon_golly stop lying and distorting the views of other people?
Your propaganda is pathetic, goon, because it is so obviously distorted from reality.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:00 amgood_goonny3.0 Says:
Look! Over here! I’ve nothing to add to the current thread, so I will distract from said fact.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:02 amAlso, even though I’m from Florida, which is getting hammered from TS Fay, I’ve decided to “play” on my internet(s).
Oh, and I’ve recently updated to 3.0 because 2.0 was sooooooo damn boring.
good_golly3 Says:
When will “progressives” progress to the point where they are willing to grant basic human rights to babies in the womb and to progress beyond the barbaric, antiquated and selfish notion that the mother has the right to kill that baby up to the moment it fully exits the birth c a n a l and takes its first breath?
U.S. Constitution, Amendment 14:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
gigi3 (how many incarnations must we abide?) is apparently uneducated with respect to the Constitution. No surprise, given the BushLove.
PEACE
August 19th, 2008 at 11:02 amSure.
By attacking a single mom who is going back to school.
By saying she does not contribute to society.
By knowing details of her life, and then criticizing her.
By acknowledging that you have “black” friends.
Archived in the Tracy Government.
Tracy is afraid that the government will take away his definition of liberty, because then he wouldn’t have the chance on his own time to do the same to his fellow citizens — off the record and not under oath.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:04 amgood_golly3 Says: When will “progressives” progress to the point where they are willing to grant basic human rights to babies in the womb and to progress beyond the barbaric, antiquated and selfish notion that the mother has the right to kill that baby up to the moment it fully exits the birth c a n a l and takes its first breath?
It’s not officially a baby until it is born. That’s why it is called a blastocyst, zygote, embryo and then fetus.
75% of all conceptions are naturally aborted, yet you nuts freak out about humans intentionally causing another 5%. Absurd.
You value the potential life of a zygote that has a 25% chance of ever becoming a baby more than you do a viable, living and breathing woman. You aren’t American, you’re anti-American.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:05 am“There is a need for regulation but not at the expense of individual liberty.”
What the hell is this supposed to mean?
August 19th, 2008 at 11:05 amstateofthedivision Says:
Leaders can change the world, for better or worse. Dr. Deming taught continuous improvement and a comprehensive theory of management
And when Dr. Deming tried to bring his concepts to U.S. government and business after WWII, he was shunned. Took his teachings to Japan and turned that nation around.
PEACE
August 19th, 2008 at 11:07 amTracy5 — Which is why government control of the people needs to be limited so as not to “screw” others out of their liberties. There is a need for regulation but not at the expense of individual liberty.
WRONG. Don’t bring the institution into this. This is clearly the failure of your cherished party to manage itself in respect to the institution. Don’t spill your incompetence on my coffee table.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:07 amTracy_5 Says: There is a need for regulation but not at the expense of individual liberty.
Please cite a specific and valid example of this happening.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:08 amTracy_5 Says: What freedom have you lost?….specifically?
Habeus Corpus ring a bell?
The freedom from illegal search and seizures.
Freedom of speech has been greatly weakened as protestors get arrest just for showing up to protest, or people lose tehir jobs for whistle blowing.
Freedom FROM religion.
Just to name a few.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:10 amWhy are you right wingers so damned afraid of everything?
O, and goo_gully, as soon as you offer to PAY FOR and RAISE these babies, you can eliminate the woman’s FREEDOM to choose to terminate the growth inside her.
You don’t care about babies, you just want to punish women for having sex, and you and your backwards religion think terminating a pregnancy is like early parole or something.
You sissies are sad, mean, pathetic, cowardly, ignorant, and annoying. GROW UP.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:12 amgood_golly3 Says:
Under Spencer’s mom’s argument, I am free to kill anyone who is not born or naturalized in the United States. That’s a pretty lousy argument.
__________________
Uh, that’s pretty much the way the Bush Crime Family has been operating for the last 8 years… hell, we don’t even bother to count the number of Iraqis we’ve killed.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:15 amWe leave that little job to other folks.
good_golly3 Says:
When will “progressives” progress to the point where they are willing to grant basic human rights to babies in the womb and to progress beyond the barbaric, antiquated and selfish notion that the mother has the right to kill that baby up to the moment it fully exits the birth c a n a l and takes its first breath?
August 19th, 2008 at 10:56 am
______
Good question. When are conservatives going to be willing to grant basic human rights – such as universal access to health care and education – to that baby once it exits the birth cana| and takes its first breath? You all are so concerned with the rights of fetuses, but once they’re born you get real laissez-faire real quick.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:16 amRantingTommy Says: O, and goo_gully, as soon as you offer to PAY FOR and RAISE these babies, you can eliminate the woman’s FREEDOM to choose to terminate the growth inside her.
Even then, I oppose anyone telling any woman that she MUST have a baby.
For one, we already have far too many people on this planet and do not need to increase the population.
Secondly, while there are exceptions, most unwanted children are abused to some degree and then become burdens to themselves and our society. Both my parents were unwanted children, and I personally think that from the abuse they suffered as well as the ramifications that followed being abused that they both would have both been better off to never have been born.
Thirdly, it’s not freedom unless I have the choice.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:17 amgood_golly3
PLENTY of intricate responses have been provided to these trolls on this topic. Don’t repost your questions in a lousy attempt to upset those whose reponses are archived. Refer to previous threads.
Off the top of my mind, though, let me send you a message: There are already strict laws governing abortion. Your position is pro-life for the purpose of having fodder to pro-death agenda after the nine months is up. That’s why you people hate affordable, accessible healthcare, and enjoy military operations with no end.
Keep the masses uneducated, and they continue to make unwise reproductive choices. All we’re doing, neocons, is cushioning the fall after you push them off the cliff.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:17 amProgressive means shedding the burden of a class structure, silver spoon politicians and corporate citizenship that supercedes individual citizenship.
Progressive means a Congress that advocates and directs equal opportunity to all Americans.
Progressives recognize that we have a global economy. That all Countries have a role in this economy, and that it’s not in our Planet’s best interests to allow corporate control of natural or shared resources.
Progressives acknowledge that religion is important socially, but has no place in government decisions. Our Founding Fathers were acutely aware of this fact. Separation of Church & State is the fulcrum point of Democracy.
Thank you for all you do, Mr. Podesta. Keep up the good work.
Oh…one more thing. Ban Think Progress posters by IP!…
August 19th, 2008 at 11:19 amHow funny, Tracy thinks criminality is liberty. The wittle troll thinks being out of line for everyone else to take the hit is his unalienable right.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:22 amAmen to that, Zim. We’re tired of living with less in the land of Pawlenty.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:24 amhttp://www.progressive.org/
Suggest you invite a post from Matt Rothschild.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:26 amTracy_5 Says:
Really? I seem to remember their being specific mechanisms that makes it very hard to change constitution on a whim as you pointed out…
“Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;”
.i.e not changing for the sake of “change”. Sound like good anti-Obama slogan.
_________________
Of cpurse… the same could be pointed out about Bush’s endless signing statements, or a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage… or one banning flag burning…
But… but… what would the GOOPers use to rally their “base”… ya know, the truly mean-spirited and ignorant? I mean… gay marriage and flag burning… they really, really are worthy of their own Constitutional amendments…
August 19th, 2008 at 11:26 amLogic is above goon golly’s pay grade…
August 19th, 2008 at 11:28 amTracy_5 Says:
Common good over self interest…i.e. the loss of liberty.
Warrantless wiretaps, habeus corpus being suspended, in fact most everything Bush has done has been a loss of liberty moron.
Todays conservatism = loss of liberty for the common man = rampant criminality for the government and corporations
August 19th, 2008 at 11:28 amTracy_5 Says: Really? I seem to remember their being specific mechanisms that makes it very hard to change constitution on a whim as you pointed out… “Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;” .i.e not changing for the sake of “change”. Sound like good anti-Obama slogan.
Yes, really. Whim isn’t a liberal trait – it’s a conservative one. When’s the last time a liberal proposed a Constitutional Amendment that LIMITED the rights of individuals? The whole ‘ban gay marriage amendment’ nonsense was all Conservative fueled, while liberals were opposed.
It’s really you who is against individual rights.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:29 amA woman will have the right to her own body in a safe, licensed medical facility with options to consider, suited to her needs.
You will not hamper the progress others have fought so hard to keep intact, Goon_Golly.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:30 amMcWars Says:
——————————————————————————–
Tracy_5 Says:
What part of “securing the rights…of its people.” don’t you understand?”
Common good over self interest…i.e. the loss of liberty.
Liberty isn’t defined as the right to screw others out of their liberties.
Tracy thinks liberty is the right for multi-national corporations to steal our natural resoucres and use our public infrastructure free of charge, while polluting our environment and using our children as cannon fodder.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:30 amgood_golly3 Says: Do we not need to balance the desires of the mother with the unalienable rights of the child?
It’s not a child until it’s born. Then, you stop caring about it.
Join reality. It hurts a whole lot less.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:32 amWho are all these woman having abortions for recreational purposes? I suppose if there actually were any, they would be pals with the mythical welfare moms. Either way what the hell does it have to do with this thread?
August 19th, 2008 at 11:32 amMcWars The Killer Llama Says
August 19th, 2008 at 10:36 am
What a bunch of crap.
____________________________________________________________
Would you mind explaining that point of view? Or are you just flinging your “crap” around randomly?
If you have a legitimate rebuttal, go ahead and post it. But I’m not holding my breath.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:33 amgood_golly3 Says:
Mr. Podesta: At what point do you as a progresssive claim that human rights begin? conception, second trimester, third trimester, birth, first breath, first birthday, other? Do we not need to balance the desires of the mother with the unalienable rights of the child?
August 19th, 2008 at 11:25 am
_______
So you guys are going back to abortion as your wedge issue this year, huh? What’s the matter – are gays getting too much mainstream acceptance? Flag-burning not tugging at the heartstrings like it used to?
August 19th, 2008 at 11:33 amPro-Abortion bible passages:
Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?
Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.
Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.
Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.
2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?
http://www.evilbible.com/god%27s%20not%20pro-life.htm
August 19th, 2008 at 11:35 amgood_golly3 Says:
——————————————————————————–
Under Spencer’s mom’s argument, I am free to kill anyone who is not born or naturalized in the United States. That’s a pretty lousy argument.
No, that is the Bush administration’s argument. And, you are correct, it is a lousy argument. Just ask anyone in Iraq.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:36 amhussein toasterhead Says:
So you guys are going back to abortion as your wedge issue this year, huh? What’s the matter – are gays getting too much mainstream acceptance? Flag-burning not tugging at the heartstrings like it used to?
goon_golly has been pounding on this one the last few days, while spreading lies about how progressives support the right of a woman to abort right up to the moment of birth, which is not only illegal everywhere in the country but also has never been the viewpoint of anyone but goon’s strawmen.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:36 amgood_golly3 Says:
Do we not need to balance the desires of the mother with the unalienable rights of the child?
August 19th, 2008 at 11:25 am
There is no balance. There are only rights for the woman. I’d ask you to point specifically to any “unalienable rights” of a fetus, but I don’t want to see your ass.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:41 amTracy_5 Says:
What part of “securing the rights…of its people.” don’t you understand?”
Common good over self interest…i.e. the loss of liberty.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:43 am
I always thought you were pretty f ucking stupid, but thanks for confirming it.
Here’s your sign…
August 19th, 2008 at 11:48 amI’ll give Tracy the benefit of the doubt that he got banned again, rather than assume that he didn’t like the answers he got to his questions, and couldn’t answer the questions asked of him…. LOL
August 19th, 2008 at 11:51 amTesting….P.B,& J
August 19th, 2008 at 11:59 amRegarding trolls: All I can think of is that Thompson Twins song from the 80s – “Lies, Lies, Lies”.
Really, is there any reason to entertain them here?
August 19th, 2008 at 11:59 amAs for the topic of this thread: I agree that Progressives need a clear and coherent message. We have to stop allowing the right to define who we are from the outside.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:02 pm“There is a need for regulation but not at the expense of individual liberty.”
“Common good over self interest…i.e. the loss of liberty.”
“There are rules for protesting and when a protest causes traffic jambs or impedes on others from moving freely or undue harassment so goes the reasons for rules.”
There seems to be some inherent contridictions in these statements….
August 19th, 2008 at 12:03 pmTracy_5 Says: You haven’t lost it.
Yes we have. When Bush can declare anyone an enemy combatant and detain him or her, without leagl rights, indefinitely, that is a total and complete loss of habeus corpus.
You haven’t lost it.
When Bush can, without a warrant, wire tap converstations of Americans, read our email, or check our liberary records without informing us, we hve lost our right from illegal searches and seizures.
There are rules for protesting and when a protest causes traffic jambs or impedes on others from moving freely or undue harassment so goes the reasons for rules.
But what’s happening now is just arresting people for showing up. That’s a complete violation.
No one is forcing religion on you.
As long as my tax dollars give breaks to churches that host political forums in order to support conservative christian candidates, then religion has been forced upon me.
But, I especially like how you gave ZERO evidence for any argument for your rebuttals to my points other than “Not true because I said so,” Very clever. You’re a sheer genius… I don’t know why you stay in architecture, you should be a Rhodes Scholar. Sheesh!
August 19th, 2008 at 12:05 pmunbelievable Says:
Pro-Abortion bible passages:
Also that some bible as well as Jewish tradition say that life begins at the “first breath”, at birth.
Why is goon_golly against the bible?
August 19th, 2008 at 12:05 pm#77 – Tracy_5 Says:
———————————————————-
“You haven’t lost it.”
August 19th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Can you prove that we haven’t lost any of the rights you claim “You haven’t lost it.”?
I can tell you about how my friend who was visiting overseas and was held by Homeland Security because they wanted to ask him questions on his return. He was held for over 10 hours for questioning because he had been in Iraq for work, and had all his items searched including his laptop. When he asked “How much longer will this take?” he was threatened with arrest for being “belligerant”. How a simple question is “belligerance” requires a twisted mind to invent.
His reason for being questioned when his travelling companion wasn’t?
He was of hispanic descent.
So much for “habeus corpus”. DOA, thanks to Pres. Bush and the rubber-stamp compliant Republican majority.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:06 pmTracy_5 Says: The BS D.C. gun ban.
You live in Texas.
Besides, it was over turned rather quickly.
And, it’s a very myopic example. Give me something that impacts YOU that is permanent.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:06 pmWhen you add the BS thing in front, you shoot your argument in the foot. Objectivity is the key to success.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:07 pmWayne Says: Also that some bible as well as Jewish tradition say that life begins at the “first breath”, at birth. Why is goon_golly against the bible?
Yes, thanks.
The only people who are against abortion are radical Christians. Yet they never seem to bother to crack open their holy book to see what it says…
August 19th, 2008 at 12:10 pm#86 – unbelievable Says:
——————————————————
“The only people who are against abortion are radical Christians. Yet they never seem to bother to crack open their holy book to see what it says…”
August 19th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Even more interesting is that the people who are AGAINST abortion seem to also be AGAINST funding childrens health care.
“Rights for the child until they are born, then screw them! They’re on their own!” That’s more like the supposed “pro-life” group attitude.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:13 pmDemocrat Soldier Says: “Rights for the child until they are born, then screw them! They’re on their own!” That’s more like the supposed “pro-life” group attitude.
The bible(s) also have quotes about killing infants, and small children for a host of absurd reasons. Yet, I’m immoral simply because I and others like me don’t believe? LOL.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:20 pmWhat a joke, like you people care about the rights of any children. You don’t want to pay for prenatal care for the mother so the baby can be born healthy. You don’t want to pay for delivery of the baby and if something is wrong with a child will send a hardworking family into bankruptcy to pay for his care. You don’t want to feed hungry children or try to help children born into poverty escape and make a decent life for themselves.
You USE the abortion issue around election time as a wedge issue to appeal to your low information constituents and then the rest of the time you neglect the welfare of our children entirely. Don’t come here acting like you care about the rights of unborn children. We’re not stupid enough to believe you care. You people care only about the rights of corporationas and those with big money to make more. Nobody LIKES abortions but they are not nearly as heinous as you people using the unborn to promote your own greedy agendas. I hope there is a h*ll so people like you can spend eternity making each other miserable.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:24 pmShayne Says: I hope there is a h*ll so people like you can spend eternity making each other miserable.
I think they already do make each other miserable (I was utterly miserable when I was a Republican).
It’s why they spend so much time trying to make us as just miserable. Unfortunately for them, we’re too smart to fall for it.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:29 pmSure because that’s really a big problem, not enough guns in big cities. Idiot.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:33 pmIt’s AMAZING to me that the anti-choice trolls haven’t yet worked out that no Republican politician, no matter how strong his/her stand against abortion, will ever actually move to abolish it in any serious way.
They would no longer have the abortion bugaboo to rally the low information bed-wetter voters.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:37 pmJohn Kerry Says: Progressive? HA! Try liberal!!!
I know you don’t get the Think Progress – Progressive connection, but Progressive = liberal. They are the same thing, and both are better than the regressive-conservative alternative.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:37 pmTracy_5 Says: I always thought that you never knew what individual liberty was.
We’ve yet to see you define it properly. You think it’s about a rich corporation getting to milk the middle class without any intervention. That’s not correct.
You don’t get that Democracy is self-government and want to limit your own control over yourself. How’s that individual liberty (or sane)? It’s not.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:41 pmAs near as I can tell, for T-X (where x=5 today), “individual liberty” means, basically, anarchy.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:43 pmTracy_5 Says:
…however you may want to grab a political science class as an elective.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Already aced it.
You should take a class about the Constitution. I took one given by Ninth Circuit Judge Stephen S. Trott. Fascinating.
Nice try.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:43 pmFrosty Cupcake Says:
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As for the topic of this thread: I agree that Progressives need a clear and coherent message. We have to stop allowing the right to define who we are from the outside.
Yes, allowing regressive right-wingers to define progressives is akin to allowing cavemen to define the Classical Greeks.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:44 pmHi John Kerry. I just cooked up some quality vittles if you’d like to stick around for a spell…
August 19th, 2008 at 12:45 pmTracy_5 Says:
I always thought that you never knew what individual liberty was. Again I am glad you decided to go back to school, however you may want to grab a political science class as an elective.
What’s wrong, wittle troll? Hate seeing gender and age diversity within our colleges and universities, is that why you cringe at Zooey pursuing a degree?
Let’s go through this again, Twacy: You can’t use the more noble individual liberty to mask your individual criminality.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:51 pmWhatever Zooey’s majoring in important, selected by an important person.
Architecture is fun, compared to whatever Zooey is doing. That’s about it.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:54 pmMcWars,
You are such a sweetie. :)
August 19th, 2008 at 12:58 pmI thought you had ‘em that time, dbadass.
He’s a slippery one, that Troll John Kerry.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:01 pmI’d like to see either candidate use maps the way Generals do, to point volunteers and donors and other resources from the public and private sector to all places in the country where people need help.
At http://tutormentor.blogspot.com you can see how I use maps of Chicago to point to where volunteer based tutor/mentor programs are needed. If the mayor, the media, or church leaders were pointing to these maps when talking about violence, poor schools, etc. they could be drawing resources to the programs already operating, and drawing new people to information they could use to help programs grow where none exists.
Such a use of maps could be used in disaster areas, in other social benefit causes, and in all forms of leadership. The candidate who adopts and models this use of technology will demonstrate a more progressive approach to leadership and problem solving than any others in the past.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:06 pmI’m thinking John Kerry misses the concept. If one intends to actually catch a fish using the trolling technique the bait actually has to stay in the water. His drop and run approach assures a complete lack of success…
August 19th, 2008 at 1:08 pma see we learned a small lesson.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:22 pmT-5, this comment makes no sense. Of course, that in itself makes it completely consistent with your oeuvre here at TP, but there’s something intriguing about the way this one lacks sense. I think it’s a combination we haven’t seen before: the absurd absolutism married to the obliviousness of “change for the sake of change”, perfectly seasoned with the willful blindness of “there isn’t any right or wrong”.
This level of complexity in a single nonsensical comment is really quite rare among your kind. I’m not sure if it comes from a growing sophistication in your trolling craft, or just from utter confusion.
Either way, I salute your efforts. You’re a much better troll than a hit-and-runner like Troll John Kerry.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:25 pm#77 – Tracy_5 Says:
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“You haven’t lost it.”
August 19th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Still waiting for you to provide proof that we haven’t lost our basic rights.
I’m using the pres. Bush method:
The statement is taht we’ve lost our rights.
I do not have to prove MY statement, YOU have to prove YOUR’S.
So, can you provide proof that we have not lost our rights?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:25 pmTracy_5 Says: It’s a liberal one. Changing for the sake of change. There isn’t any right and wrong only shades of grey.
Give me a legitimate example then. We gave you gay marriage and flag burning.
And the conservatives who were pushing for it were wrong.
Ys they were, so why are you slamming liberal then? Hello?
Again that D.C. gun ban that was pushed thru in 1976 by liberal city council members.
Again, you live in Texas and you still haven’t given me a single example tha impacts you personally.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:27 pmhey ralph. This is sort of boring. For a more amusing oddball swing up to Daryll’s nonsense.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:31 pmTracy_5 Says: And he is dead wrong and the Supreme Court sided against it. So where does the Supreme Court stand on this?
It’s not supposed to be about the supremes, but about the Constitution. I really wish you’d have paid attention in Political Science class.
That’s a huge stretch. No one is forcing you to watch or listen.
I’m forced to be ‘represented’ by people who are religious. That’s not a stretch.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:32 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Either way, I salute your efforts. You’re a much better troll than a hit-and-runner like Troll John Kerry.
Yes, Tracy is a committed troll. He usually sticks around long enough to contradict himself on nearly every subject.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:32 pmWas that in the majority opinion? Or in the minority dissent?
Can you point to where the term “BS” was used? I’ll accept the use of the term “bullshit” as well, unless you were referring to some other term that uses that shorthand.
Thanks.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:33 pmI was unaware that the supreme court included such verbage into formal writings. I suppose they use personal pronouns, contractions, and end each with statements Like “I really liked this case. it was fun” ala a ninth grade lab repost…
August 19th, 2008 at 1:34 pmTracy_5 Says:
So when that Supreme Court called the D.C. gun ban BS that makes their argument invalid?
Does Washington DC have a well regulated State Militia that I don’t know about?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:35 pmTracy_5 Says: Eminent domain for the sake of increased new tax dollars for the government.
Uh, nope. That was Republicans acting on behalf of corporations. It benefitted Republicans and their shareholders.
Sounds like what you don’t like about government are teh Republicans you keep electing to act on your behalf. You should do something about that.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:35 pmI’m beginning to see where Tracy’s cognitive difficulties arise.
He reads a statement like that’s really a big problem, not enough guns in big cities and he catches the sarcasm, but the conclusion he reaches is that the speaker “oppose(s) the 2nd Amendment”.
This reveals some fundamental flaw in the way that Tracy5 processes information. I’m afraid there’s really a limited amount that we can do to help him understand complex topics. Mostly all we can do is make fun of him. Maybe it will help him. It sure helps me.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:37 pmSpeaking for myself and not the commenter you quoted, might I suggest that they came up “with that garbage” in a place similar to where you went to declare that progressives don’t recognize right or wrong?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:40 pmTracy_5 Says: How did you come up with that garbage? You and I just have a different view on how much the government should have control over our lives.
You said it.
No, we differ on what a Democracy is. You keep dissing self-government. LOL
August 19th, 2008 at 1:40 pmTracy, you can hae the last word, I have to go give a final exam.
I’m sure I won’t be missing anything enlightening.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:49 pmYAWN
Another day, another ass handed to Twacy.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:52 pmI see that see you oppose the 2nd Amendment.
I see that you oppose regulation by the government in respect to the 2nd Amendment, which is clearly permissible.
Mr. tough on crime refuses to scale back on those guns, even though they’re the accelerant of the erupting crime wave taking place in this country.
People kill people, sure, but guns make it easier to kill people. It forces the lifestyle of owning a gun onto the person in order to defend themselves.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:57 pmTracy finds it impossible to understand the concept that the airwaves are owned by the public.
His idea of freedom is to give free stuff to multinational corporations, free of any responsibility by those receiving the free largess from the public.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:25 pm#112 – Tracy_5 Says:
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“How does the your assertion about the suspension of habeus corpus apply in your story?”
August 19th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Two people, exact same travelling circumatances. One was stopped, had all his posessions searched without his approval, and his laptop was copied & his digital camera contents copied & erased. The other was passed through the door with nary an eye blink.
What part of “no unreasonable search” doesn’t make sense to you?
August 19th, 2008 at 2:27 pmThere you go with the Bill of Rights again. Don’t you know that the only part of the Bill of Rights accepted by right-wing regressives is the second half of the 2nd Amendment?
August 19th, 2008 at 2:50 pmTracy, did you know that George W. Bush used eminent domain to confiscate private homes in order to build his taxpayer funded baseball park in Arlington, Texas? Then, he and his crooked partners sold the team and stadium, and absconded with $150 million of taxpayer money. Bush, himself walked away with $11 million of Arlington, TX taxpayer money in his pocket.
August 19th, 2008 at 3:09 pmTracy_5 Says:
So let’s ban knives considering they kill millions each year. Why should the “ease” be a litmus test?
Because the 2nd Amendment does not deal with the possesion of knives by a “well regulated State Militia”. Obviously, the founding fathers did not feel knives were so dangerous that they should be regulated.
August 19th, 2008 at 3:13 pm#138 – Tracy_5 Says:
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“So, again tell us again how does the your assertion about the suspension of habeus corpus apply to your story?”
August 19th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
You answered it for yourself. “unlawful detention”
Interesting how you’re bending over backwards to justify the shreding of our Constitution. Are you proud of your actions? Our founding fathers aren’t.
Still waiting to hear you explain how we are not losing our constitutional rights. Remember, you have to explain how we are not losing our rights, we only have to claim it’s happening. It’s the new standard that Pres. Bush has set when he lied about the reasons for War in Iraq.
If you complain about this new standard care of the neo-cons, then you’re only engaging in a pre-Sept 11th mindset. (Funny how that seems to work against the pro-Bush apologists now!)
August 19th, 2008 at 3:32 pmWhere do you get the notion that the government is suppose to regulate a militia?
In the words of the Constitution?
“A well-regulated militia,” dumkopf.
August 19th, 2008 at 3:39 pmTracy_5 Says:
So let’s ban knives considering they kill millions each year. Why should the “ease” be a litmus test?
How many people are injured or killed from accidental misfirings of knives per year?
Dumkopf.
August 19th, 2008 at 3:43 pmgreat a bunch of yokels calling themselvs a militia and not wanting to be regulated. This is gonna work out swell. Sort of reminds me of a Simpson’s episode
August 19th, 2008 at 3:48 pm3146 – Tracy_5 Says:
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“You just said your story was about unreasonable search and seizure.”
August 19th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
So you consider it reasonable to “search” a hispanic person, and not the caucasion person who were both travelling together with the exact same travelling profile?
Still waiting for you to explain how we’re not losing our constitutional rights. You do support the “you have to prove me wrong” standard that Pres. Bush started, right?
August 19th, 2008 at 3:49 pmmaybe in the same place that the supreme court said bullshit. Just trying to help…
August 19th, 2008 at 3:58 pmcontrolled? Obviously we have never met…
August 19th, 2008 at 4:05 pmTracy_5 Says:
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“Because the 2nd Amendment does not deal with the possesion of knives by a “well regulated State Militia”.”
Where does the 2nd Amendment say “well regulated STATE militia”?
See folks, here is the problem with these dumbass right-wing Republicans. This one is prattling on about gun rights, and he has never read the first half of the 2nd Amendment because the gun nuts don’t accept that part.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,”
Tracy doesn’t even know that the states had their own militia when the Constitution was written, and the 2nd Amendment was drafted in order to reassure state governments that they had the right to protect themselves with their own armed militia, as long as they were “well regulated”.
August 19th, 2008 at 4:11 pmI think someone fancies themselves a Bo Gritz. No maybe more of a LeRoy Schweitzer. Nutsacks…
August 19th, 2008 at 4:14 pmTracy, you idiot, the airwaves are nationaized. They are owned by the public.
Why do you insist on displaying your ignorance?
August 19th, 2008 at 5:50 pmTracy_5 Says:
Regulated by whom? Again where do you get the notion that a militia is to be regulated by the government, state or federal?
Gawd Tracy, you are too obtuse to argue with. I have already explained to you that the 2nd Amendment was drafted in order to assure the states that they would be allowed to maintain their armed militias after adoption of the federal Constitution. These well regulated militia WERE REGULATED AND FUNDED BY THE INDIVIDUAL STATES YOU STUPID FOOL!
The Militia Act of 1903 organized these state militia into the current National Guard. Until that time, they were funded and regulated by the individual states.
Now, the National Guard is regulated by the National Guard Bureau.
That’s enough. I’ve laid it out plain as day. If you are too stupid to understand, then you aren’t worth my time.
August 19th, 2008 at 6:08 pmTracy_5 Says:
“You should take a class about the Constitution. I took one given by Ninth Circuit Judge Stephen S. Trott. Fascinating.”
The 9th Circus? Well there is your problem right there.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Typical troll knee-jerk response. How very predictable.
BTW, Judge Trott is well respected — left and right — and he was a Reagan appointee.
Idiot.
August 19th, 2008 at 8:17 pmWhat happened? Did the ATF show up or something?
August 20th, 2008 at 1:52 amJohn Kerry Says:
Progressive?
HA! Try liberal!!!
I am PROUD to call myself a liberal which I obviously am. Are YOU as proud to call yourself a moron which YOU obviously are?
August 20th, 2008 at 7:55 am