Proposed U.S. withdrawal plan ‘is right out of’ CAP’s Strategic Redeployment plan.
Proposed U.S. withdrawal plan ‘is right out of’ CAP’s Strategic Redeployment plan.
The Wall Street Journal reports today that “U.S. and Iraqi negotiators reached agreement on a security deal that calls for American military forces to leave Iraq’s cities by next summer as a prelude to a full withdrawal of combat troops from the country” by 2011. Declaring that the deal means “the left won the Iraq debate,” Spencer Ackerman notes that the “plan is right out of the Center for American Progress’ ‘Strategic Redeployment‘ paper of 2005″:
It’s possible that this report is wrong: the New York Times is reporting Humood said the deal doesn’t have timetables in it, which is confusing to say the least. But if the Journal is right, so much for “demoraliz[ing]” the Iraqi people. That plan is right out of the Center for American Progress’ “Strategic Redeployment” paper of 2005 — get out of the cities, get less visible, move from a combat mission to a training mission, and then go. The left won the Iraq debate. Period.
During a press conference in Iraq today, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said that while a final agreement has yet to be made, the U.S. and Iraq had “agreed that some goals, some aspirational timetables for how that might unfold, are well worth having in such an agreement.” Read Strategic Redeployment and its follow-up, Strategic Reset.
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No timetables, horizons, sure, but tables, you know, the ones with data and numbers and dates and such, not.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:51 pmSo, here we have McCain just yesterday accusing Obama of wanting defeat by way of “withdrawal before victory” (whatever constitutes a victory), then the very next day we have Bu$h and his bimbo Rice announcing – hold your breath – a timed withdrawal, virtually identical to the plan Obama has proposed.
Has the press picked up on this? No, of course not.
This is why McCain is going to win. The fix is in.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:55 pm“the left won the Iraq debate”
Perhaps we did, but the millions of dead, disabled, mamed, displaced and emotionally broken people can take little solice in that hollow victory.
So who won? The small cadre of war profiteers, aka, Bush’s-now-McStain’s Base.
Sigh…
PEACE
August 21st, 2008 at 1:56 pmBut if the Journal is right, so much for “demoraliz[ing]” the Iraqi people.
Actually, what this plan will do is to encourage the Iraqi people. It will give them back their country. I can’t think of anything that is more demoralizing than having a foreign country occupy your country and run the show.
The requirement of a timetable came from the Iraqi’s themselves, so the righties can’t blame that on the left. Unless, of course, they want to admit that the left in this country has more sway in Iraq then the neoCONs do.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:57 pmRUCerious Says:
No timetables, horizons, sure, but tables, you know, the ones with data and numbers and dates and such, not.
RUC, the table I’d like to see pulled out and set up is the one that impeachment was meant to go on (ahem, Pelosi?)
But that’s just me…
PEACE
August 21st, 2008 at 1:58 pmThis war has been a disaster of biblical proportions. Bring them all home soon! We have lost too many lives, for what? We have returning military with terrible injuries to mind and body, for shat? We have spent billions of dollars, for what!
As the old song says, “War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!”
August 21st, 2008 at 1:59 pmThat is what up there, not shat! Sorry.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:00 pmSomewhere over the Bush crime family aspirical (sic) horizonial rainbow, there will justice and these worthless lying traitorous war criminals will be taken to World Court in The Hague, Netherlands for a little regrooving…
August 21st, 2008 at 2:00 pmWell, haven’t we learned by now that when the Republican’s ideas flop, their rule is steal the Democrat’s ideas and claim them for their own?
August 21st, 2008 at 2:01 pmLet’s all serve up a big pile of gloat, shall we?
August 21st, 2008 at 2:02 pmThere are two main things I find interesting about the new agreement. One is that the Iraqi government is proposing June 30 as a final withdrawal date, and their Natioal Security Adviser (Roubaie) has been repeatedly asking for a specific date. The second thing is this:
“In recent weeks, Iraqi government officials said that early versions of the plan would have called for U.S. combat troops to leave Iraq by the end of 2010 and for the remainder of troops to depart by the end of 2011. By June 20, 2009, troops would be restricted to their bases and prohibited from patrolling Iraq’s streets.”
The Iraqis have been asking for this last provision for some time now. It came up in the Iraqi Parliament in the summer of 2007. Why is it that we never hear about this in the US press?
August 21st, 2008 at 2:03 pm.
A “TIME HORIZON” is an undefined term meant to transcend time.
When traveling the globe and the sunset is on the horrizon, can you ever catch it? NO! Why…?
The term, “TIME HORIZON” is another way of saying “there is no time foreseeable that we will ever be leaving as in chasing the sunset, it too can NEVER BE ACHIEVED.” A “TIME HORIZON” is preordained to be forever. A ordained failure if what you seek is an end.
TIME HORIZON = 100 YEARS+1
.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:04 pmOf course nothing existed before Bush or his minions thought of it.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pmBadmoodman Says:
Let’s all serve up a big pile of gloat, shall we?
I’d rather see a big pile of indictments with the names of everyone in the Bush Administration on them.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pmChris L Says:
The Iraqis have been asking for this last provision for some time now. It came up in the Iraqi Parliament in the summer of 2007. Why is it that we never hear about this in the US press?
Because it doesn’t fit with what the Bush Crime Family wants. They really do think that they are in charge and can get what they want. Slowly they are coming to realize that they are not in charge
August 21st, 2008 at 2:08 pm.
So does this mean that the Iraqis will be left alone… finally?
I mean, they’ve been asking the USA to leave for years now.
.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:10 pmChris L Says:
The Iraqis have been asking for this last provision for some time now. It came up in the Iraqi Parliament in the summer of 2007. Why is it that we never hear about this in the US press?
Same reason the US press has not been reporting the truth of what has been happening in Afghanistan since we abandoned fighting Al Qaeda there to invade Iraq for a pack of lies.
Bush Licking Corporate Owned Media.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:11 pmCheese and Crackers Says:
Explain exactly how the surge worked, with real facts, Cheesehead.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:13 pmI spoke yesterday to a neighbor whose son recently came home from Iraq. The son says that they were mostly confined to their base, that they rarely went into Baghdad and they never patrolled the roads for IED’s. He said that is the main reason why US troop deaths have gone down. It is not a publicized fact, but it is a fact.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:13 pmWayne Says:
Cheese and Crackers Says:
Explain exactly how the surge worked, with real facts, Cheesehead.
First cheesehead needs to tells us what the purpose of the surge was. And then tell us how it succeeded. And no cheating. He must come up with the reason for the surge that Bush told us as his reason for the surge, and then tell us how that has worked out.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pmCheese and Crackers Says:
The Center for American Progress opposed the surge, which is exactly what made this proposed withdrawl plan possible.
Really? Prove it please. The Sunni Awakening happened before The Surge(TM) was even announced, so please prove that said Surge was the tipping point.
And while you’re at it, please explain how we are safer today because of the Iraq Debacle. On second thought, I think we’ve heard enough out of you.
PEACE
August 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pmThe Wall Street Journal reports today that “U.S. and Iraqi negotiators reached agreement on a security deal that calls for American military forces to leave Iraq’s cities by next summer as a prelude to a full withdrawal of combat troops from the country” by 2011.
Please tell me how will this happen, if the Nov. 1 deadline for Sunni disarmament passes, and the Sunnis who’ve been holding onto their weapons decide to restart hostilities instead? They havn’t been integrated into the infrastructure as promised, and are threatening to do just that, come November. Great timing, for throwing the US election into turmoil.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pmI just hope we are smart enough to get our troops out before we stop cutting checks to the militias. Cause I don’t think they’ll be very understanding when the money dries up.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:19 pm#21:
August 21st, 2008 at 2:21 pmNo way is that gonna happen.
And someone flag P, please? Mine doesn’t work.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:23 pmWhat this amounts to is Bush wanting to help McSame out of his “100 years in Iraq” statement and making Iraq a non-issue for republican scum in this upcoming election.
But will they ever admit that Democrats were right all along, not on your life, they will take credit for the idea saying that is what they wanted all along.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:23 pmOkay, so what does this do to McCain’s argument? Does he just keep accusing Obama of legislating failure or does he have to spin it so he can take the credit? I’m going with spin, the same way he gave himself credit for Webb’s GI Bill.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:24 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
First cheesehead needs to tells us what the purpose of the surge was. And then tell us how it succeeded. And no cheating. He must come up with the reason for the surge that Bush told us as his reason for the surge, and then tell us how that has worked out.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pm
_______
And then Cheesehead needs to explain how the surge is expected to continue succeeding once 4 million Iraqi refugees and IDPs return home and try to reclaim their homes in the ethnically-cleansed sections of the country, and when the Sunni Awakening councils stop fighting AQI and turn their guns on Shi’ites, and when the Mahdi Army ends the cease-fire and begins attacking Sunnis.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:25 pmand when we stop paying them to not kill each other and us…
August 21st, 2008 at 2:26 pmI also find it interesting that this agreement seems to only mention combat troops. What about private military contractors?
August 21st, 2008 at 2:26 pmCheese and Crackers Says:
The only reason that you people say that the surge was not successful is because success to a Leftist equals American failure.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:26 pm
______
Wrong. Success would have been not invading a country that posed no threat to us in the first place. After that, failure was and is inevitable. It’s just a matter of whether we fail with 5,000 dead Americans or 10,000. Which do you prefer?
August 21st, 2008 at 2:29 pmHi Cheese and Crackers:
August 21st, 2008 at 2:30 pmMight you revisit the gay greeting cards thread? I have some questions about your love of capitalism. Mostly it deals with the market forces which have driven the alledged domination of some many segments of the economy by the left. You know like the media, education, entertainment, labor, etc. Thanks…
Hello?
I just called into question CAP’s plan for strategic redeployment.
This whole victory lap is horribly premature, since the surge is failing to bring about the conditions necessary for withdrawl.
The Sunnis aren’t happy with the status quo – a situation with a good chance of blowing up this year, and sending all these carefully-constructed prognostications into the crapper.
The Shia are in no hurry to implement promised reforms, and it will soon blow up, if something isn’t done to diffuse the situation.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:32 pm“Some people say” that Cheesy the Cracker has group sex with his mother and the family dog…but that’s for you to decide.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:32 pmspencers’ mom @#5, Not just you, darlin, lots and lots of us!
August 21st, 2008 at 2:39 pmPAX!
Cheese and (Phil Grahm)crackers… but why all the whine?
So, a success is a failure? Oh, only if spouted by a Loyal Nationalist about Liberals. So then, how many more people have to die for your vision of success to kick in over the next 100 years? Are you willing to put yourself on that firing line… Didn’t think so.
Read Bilbo’s comment whiner…
See, I’m part of the people who actually think that the continued perpetration of WAR CRIMES is not a principle to defend. In fact, the Iraqis have been begging the USA to leave. Who are you to be thinking for them?
And yes, wars based on lies so as to pillage natural resources IS A WAR CRIME as all other crimes, TORTURE, MURDER, RAPE, THEFT, come from that ultimate crime. Oh, and did I mention that the use of coercive measures so as to influence a political change is exactly what the USA defines as TERRORISM? I suppose that, “IT’S NOT TERRORISM WHEN THE USA DOES IT.” … NO?
REMEMBER Phil cheesy, wear your lapel pin on the left side. That way, when people see you, they’ll see that pin stuck deep into the dark recesses of your heart and soul.
.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:42 pmSo Cheese and Crackers:
August 21st, 2008 at 2:45 pmCan I collect my money from #25 yet? Oh and about that capitalism thing… Isn’t it amazing how the invisable hand thing worked out?
mcliar will merely clain that he was never against time tables and no one will challenge him on it. Or one of his lobbyist spokespersons will say that mcstupid doesn’t speak for the campaign, or mcstupid will put on his flight suit pajamas and crash a plane into an aircraft carrier and proclaim “victory”! and invade another country.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:46 pmI just had to get in on this one. Mr. Cheezy head or whatever you call yourself. You call us blind pathetic fools. Hmmm….
Let me ask you something:
Why was there a surge to begin with? I thought your idol Bu$h and his cock jockey McCain said the mission was accomplished… 5 YEARS AGO.
Please. If your leaders, all of them pathetic, draft dodging liars and cheats, silver spoon daddy’s boys who never worked a day in their lives, had the best interests of the nation in their hearts, had one single iota of common sense, listened to EXPERTS who KNEW WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT in terms of Iraq, then we would never have gotten into this mess.
Hell, they (the candy @ss draft dodgers that comprise the majority of the GOP) didn’t even listen to generals WHO ACTUALLY FOUGHT in combat, who told them about the lack of troop levels, a clear and concise mission, and a plan for after the war. Anyone with any freakin common sense was FIRED or forced to step down.
So @sshole pansy daddy’s boy, it is YOU that is the pathetic fool, because YOU have allowed yourself to be hoodwinked by the most incompetent and corrupt, the most anti-American administration in the history of our republic.
You are the pathetic, flag sucking half wit that let’s draft dodging cowards tell you how to think. This Iraq war had nothing to do with terrorism, and everything to do with greed and war profiteering. And you are too g0ddamn stupid to realize it.
Now go back to watching wrastlin’ and playing with your Geroge Bu$h action figure. @sshole
August 21st, 2008 at 2:47 pmThe righties should just “declare victory” and leave.
But I’ve got a terrible feeling that some horrific “event” could happen in Iraq and we’d have to “stay there longer to protect them.”
(Have I used up my quota of quotes for the day?)
August 21st, 2008 at 2:48 pmfrom the link quoting Rice and her “aspirational timetables”:
‘Followers of anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr criticized Rice’s visit and repeated their opposition to the security agreement. Sadr’s followers control 30 of the 275 seats in parliament.’
Sounds like potential trouble. And how does this arrangement handle the oil revenues?
August 21st, 2008 at 2:52 pmCheese and Crackers,
Why are we in Iraq?
August 21st, 2008 at 2:52 pmI thought this link was about Iraq – why is the troll talking about “Maxism”?
August 21st, 2008 at 2:55 pmsleazycrackers:
It’s not a zero sum game, idiot. The failure of Marxism doesn’t prove the success of capitialism, idiot. the problem is you rightwingbots see everything as a game. The things that matter in life aren’t games. War isn’t a game, feeding your family isn’t a game, being able to get your sick child decent medical attention isn’t a gaime. It’s a shame you’re too callous and shallow to understand that. But then again, you’re a republican.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:57 pmmary Says:
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I thought this link was about Iraq – why is the troll talking about “Maxism”?
because it can’t explain why the surge is a failure and why bush is embracing time tables, etc.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:58 pmUm. The problem is that no country has ever put Marx’s theories into practice. They have merely been used as tools of tyranny. So, the troll’s point is, as always. irrelevant.
Unless, it’s trying to say that the Democratic party is “Marxist”? Well, that’s just too ridiculous to deserve a response.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:01 pmCheesehead is not here to discuss anything, rather he is throwing insults at every post, time to flag the troll.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:03 pmCheesehead is not here to discuss anything
Of course not. One needs, at least, two humans to have a conversation. Trolls, on the other hand, merely mimic human speech.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:05 pmCheese and Crackers Says:
######
While most Americans credit the surge for the drop in violence in Iraq, most Iraqis credit the Sahwa Councils that we have been paying, although Maliki is now working against them. Also, the cease-fire called by the largest Shia militia in Iraq helped, and that militai is now part of the offical Iraqi government. The surge helped improve security in some areas, but lowered it in others. Also, the giant blast walls that divide Baghdad now did a lot to contain the violence. The Iraqi government has been asking us to leave since 2007. I left Iraq in the summer of 2004.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:07 pmI believe we were discussing what happens with the “Awakening councils”? Things are looking a little chancy there.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/story/49538.html
August 21st, 2008 at 3:09 pmFunny how these right wing nut jobs like cheezedick always start spewing on and on about capitalism, when the very government they despise time and time again bails out companies that fail.
Let me ask you this cheezedick: in true free market capitalism, if a business fails to make a profit, they go under, right?
Why then are they continuously bailed out at taxpayer’s expense? Why did John McCain leave it to the taxpayers to pay off the mess of the Keating 5? Huh? What about the greedy corporatists who ripped off thousands of people? Why didn’t they have to pay the money?
Please. You are a complete moron that has no clue what kind of sewage the hole in your face is spouting. But I guess when you willfully surrender your free will and thought, and choose to let people like Hannity and Rush think for you, that is what happens.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:10 pmChris L Says:
Cheese and Crackers Says:
While most Americans credit the surge for the drop in violence in Iraq, most Iraqis credit the Sahwa Councils that we have been paying, although Maliki is now working against them. Also, the cease-fire called by the largest Shia militia in Iraq helped, and that militai is now part of the offical Iraqi government. The surge helped improve security in some areas, but lowered it in others. Also, the giant blast walls that divide Baghdad now did a lot to contain the violence. The Iraqi government has been asking us to leave since 2007. I left Iraq in the summer of 2004.
My brother-in-law is still over there and my son returned last Sept. From what both have told me, Chris is correct.
The paying off the militias has helped curb the violence more than the “surge” has.
Both have told me no one has found those WMDs we supposedly invaded for, with much sarcasm involved.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:15 pmBoth are voting for Obama as well.
The simple indisputable fact is that the progressives were correct all along with regard to the debacle known as Iraq Freedom. It was a treasure grab by the neocons and a colonial effort to grab the land and resouces from what we considered a weak nation. That is the truth, and it is not in question.
The question remains for those who have been wrong the entire time. Cheerleading a failed invasion does not sit well with those who believed Bush was competent. They have tremendous issues with the realization that they have been duped by the worst president in our history. They understand this, and that is why this thread got de-railed into talking about maxism and any other topic which doesn’t make the trolls feel like they have been played for fools.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:22 pmHogwash.
Prove it.
Sir (or ma’am), you prove the point with every post you write. All of the reasons stated for the illegal invasion are proved wrong and misleading on a daily basis. All of the reasons stated for the military force have been tossed into the trash heap of history. Not one of Bush’s claims for our need to invade Iraq have been realized. Not one.
You may not listen to the idiots such as limbaugh and hannity, but you certainly have their inane talking points down pat. You do the 23% proud. The rest of America thinks you are a nutjob, but hey, in your little club, you are indeed the smartet person in the room. Good for you.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:33 pmAnd here’s why the surge is an ultimate failure
August 21st, 2008 at 3:34 pmIraqi Shiite’s don’t trust Sunnis, duh
Poor cheezewhiz, can’t absorb facts, get in way of preconceived drivel… Sad, but true.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:35 pmCheese and Crackers Says:
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What a load of rubbish.
The Center for American Progress opposed the surge, which is exactly what made this proposed withdrawl plan possible.
You folks are truly pathetic.
Wow you are world class stupid. The surge was PR. We began PAYING the Iraqis to riegn in their militias and the ethnic cleansing of neighborhoods was pretty much already done. Do your lips move when Rushie tells you what to think you moron? Pathetic is what they would call the story of your life. You ignorant cretin
August 21st, 2008 at 3:37 pmCheese and Crackers Says:
Even your Messiah, the lightworker, Barack Obama acknowledges that the surge has been successful…although he still would have opposed it.
The only reason that you people say that the surge was not successful is because success to a Leftist equals American failure.
As I said before; you folks are pathetic – blind, pathetic fools.
I am sure you have said a lot of really ignorant things Cheese for brains mostly to your rubber girlfriend in your mommys basement since no one else listens to you. Unfornatly to moronic twits like you success equals getting as many Americans killed as possible its party time in your house as long as Americans are dying and you can pop another John Wayne movie into your VCR and talk about how tough YOU are while THEY are dying. Admit it you LOVE seeing Americans die. You are an ignorant, cowardly, festering, herpes sore of pseudohuman wimp.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:43 pmbarfly Says:
Hello?
I just called into question CAP’s plan for strategic redeployment.
This whole victory lap is horribly premature, since the surge is failing to bring about the conditions necessary for withdrawl.
The conditions necessary for withdrawl are Planes and Ships loaded with fuel. The Iraqis want us gone, there is nothing left we can help them with, everything that can be handled militarily has been done. Its time to come home and leave the Iraqis POLITICAL problems to the Iraqis.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:46 pmCheese and Crackers Says:
I surrender to you superior intellect.
I guess you would just about have to. I am sure you say the same thing to your goldfish
August 21st, 2008 at 3:48 pmCheese and Crackers Says:
dbadass Says:
Isn’t it amazing how the invisable hand thing worked out?
———————————————————-
It has work infinately better than any of the various forms of Maxism which have enslaved hundreds of millions of people thoughout the past century.
Show me one place – one country – where Marx’s theories, put into practice, have created prosperity or freedom.
You are really REALLY stupid Cheezy. Why would he bother? LEt me aquaint you with a term called the FALSE DICHOTOMY. Are unfettered capitalism with no regulations or outright Marxism the ONLY two alternatives? Why no they arent so your stupidity here is just a basic logical fallacy. Since you are CLEARLY too stupid to understand basic logic. Hire a reasonably bright five year old to look up the term and explain all the big words to you. MORON.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:53 pmCheese and Crackers:
August 21st, 2008 at 3:59 pmI believe it would be more appropriate to move the “wonders of capitalism” discussion to the gay greeting card thread as I discussed or should I just assume that you feel that the left dominates all those areas because the right is simply outcompeted by the desires of the marketplace? Losers…
Cheese and Crackers Says:
Hogwash.
Prove it.
When you YOU proven ANY of the ignorant hivemind tripe you have spewed out on this site? Its pretty simple if Iraqs major export were artichokes we wouldnt be there. All of the Bush LIES about Iraq were proven wrong. There was its about WMDS, Weapons of Mass Destruction we have to get them they litter Iraq like so many cigarette butts. WE have to…Ok no WMDs but 9/11 we have to get them because of 9/11…Ok so they werent behind 9/11 but but Al Queda they were cooperating with Al Queda, they would give them the WMDS they didnt have we had to stop them… Ok so NO co-operative ties with Al Queda. Give me a minute, FREEDOM yeah, thats the ticket, its about freedom we are going to STAY and make them free even THOUGH about 80% of them want us gone we have to make them free of course not free enough to tell us they dont want our help but…ARE YOU A COMPLETE MORON? Its simple. They LIED about Iraq flat out lied no two ways about it WHY do you lie about the reasons for a war? Because the American people wouldnt have been all that happy with…We need to get Exxon and Mobile the oil contracts that Iraq just isnt going to let us have so we need to invade and IMPOSE our corporate will on them. You really arent very bright are you Cheezy?
August 21st, 2008 at 4:02 pmThe timelines are trans-dimensional. They exist but don’t really exist. They sort of float in between temporal dimensions, awaiting the call of the Bush Administration. Very complicated foreign policy stuff, way above all us peasants’ heads.
August 22nd, 2008 at 3:29 pm