Rice: Missile defense in Poland needed to block missiles from Iran, North Korea.
By on Aug 21st, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Rice: Missile defense in Poland needed to block missiles from Iran, North Korea.
Over at Attackerman, Spencer Ackerman notes that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said today that the U.S. is constructing a missile defense shield in Poland to protect from “long-rang missile threats” from Iran and North Korea, not Russia:
This is an agreement that, of course, will establish a missile defense site here in Poland, a missile defense site that will help us to deal with the new threat to the 21st century of long-range missile threats from countries like Iran or from North Korea.
As Ackerman notes, North Korean missiles cannot reach Poland, and “even if they someday could, they never never would; and Iranian antipathy to the Poles does not exist.” Yglesias has more.
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Is Condoleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezza suggesting that we install a big honking vacuum cleaner in the Ukraine so we can suck up all those mushroom clouds that will appear on the horizon?
Rice is more useless than tits on a boar . . . just like her boss.
August 21st, 2008 at 5:55 pm“Rice: Missile defense in Poland needed to block missiles from Iran, North Korea.”
- - And Narnia, don't forget Narnia, Condi.
August 21st, 2008 at 5:56 pmRice: Missile defense in Poland needed to block missiles from Iran, North Korea.
Yeah , because Poland shares borders with both Iran and North Korea..............
August 21st, 2008 at 5:58 pmCondi is proof positive why conservatives are so down on higher education.
August 21st, 2008 at 5:59 pmRice continues to be a liar for Bush, Cheney, etc. So pathetic. North Korea to Poland? This woman is obviously incompetent in her jopb.
August 21st, 2008 at 5:59 pmjopb = job. Oops.
August 21st, 2008 at 5:59 pmAlright, I hate the lying POS's as much as anyone, but as someone who knows how the systems actually work, this hit is off base. You don't hit the incoming missiles right before they hit. They are targeted outside the atmosphere. There not in Poland to protect Poland from Iran or North Korea; they are there to protect Europe from Iran and North Korea.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:11 pmI find it ironic that Madame Secretary was some sort of academic "expert" on Russia and the former USSR, yet, her boss somehow was able to "look into the soul" of ex-KGB'er Putin and see no threats.
Only to have US "ally" Georgia be invaded by Russia - who ain't going anywhere now.
No one could have anticipated, indeed.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:11 pmWhat I'm curious about is how Rice can keep making this assertion with a straight face. I guess when you say the same lie over and over it just becomes automatic.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:14 pmI'm a little confused. Does the missile defense system protect Poland or the US? I assumed that it would be based in Poland because it is between us and both North Korea and Iran. Remember that the Earth is a sphere and not flat like a map.
Either way it's a stupid idea. Let's spend billions on a system using technology that won't work to score a few political brownie points with our allies and further alienate our "enemies".
August 21st, 2008 at 6:16 pmwhoa, whoa, now hold on a minute here.
the united states is most certainly aware that the iranians and north koreans do not hold antipathy towards poland, nor would they ever attack poland.
the defense shield does a lot more than protect just poland. it protects all of europe, and by extension, the united states and united states' interests.
note: i am no republican conservative, libertarian, bush-supporter, mccain-supporter, not even an obama-supporter. i'm a hard left, green, socialist, hippie, pot head, herbalist, commune-living wacko.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:18 pmi think that thinkprogress should immediately delete this entire post.
it's absurd, stupid......incoherent, etc. get rid of it before the right wing uses it to make us look stupid...
August 21st, 2008 at 6:20 pmI thought countries didn't attack other countries in the 21st century.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:24 pmI thought countries didn’t attack other countries in the 21st century.
brilliant!
but to rice's credit, i think she said "invade" and not "attack," giving the impression that she meant 'boots on the ground' and not 'missles'....
August 21st, 2008 at 6:25 pmcheese and crackers,
not to your credit, your argument against iranian interest in possessing nuclear weapons smacks of hypocrisy, as the united states possesses more nuclear weapons than all other countries combined.
in other words, you can dispute thinkprogress' attempts to understand weapons projectiles and satellite technology until you are blue in the face, but claiming that iran cannot do what we do, just because they are iranian, is simply arrogant.
i completely understand that we need to protect our national interests, i also think that carrying out a foreign policy which is inherently contradictory.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:30 pmis wrong (sorry, didn't finish)
August 21st, 2008 at 6:30 pmCheese and Crackers Says: #13
Can anyone remember the last time Iran threatened any European country? So if Iran gets a nuclear weapon, as the neocons would have us believe, they just couldn't wait to use it on someone. It would be the stupidest thing they could do and its even more stupid to believe they would. As for Hezbollah attacking Israel expecting a positive outcome, puh-leeeeeeze!
August 21st, 2008 at 6:31 pmthe defense shield does a lot more than protect just poland. it protects all of europe, and by extension, the united states and united states’ interests.
Actually, the 'defense shield' succeeds in shooting down about 60% of incoming missiles when it knows EXACTLY where they are coming from and EXACTLY where they are going... two variables that will be fluid and difficult to predict in the event of an ACTUAL missile strike...
August 21st, 2008 at 6:33 pmSo what the 'defense shield' ACTUALLY does is look silly, enrich alot of defense contractors and piss off the Russians.
Iran will aim it’s missiles [...] then they will use that threat to blackmail Europe
~Cheese and Crackers
Right, you say that because Iran has such a long history of aiming missiles and threatening Europe.
What in the world makes you think Europe needs American "protection"?
Russia is also a serious threat to all of the former Eastern bloc countries.
Except Rice didn't mention Russia, now did she? That would have carried some weight. But she didn't. She said "Iran and North Korea". Don't put words in her mouth. She sounds stupid enough as it is.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:38 pmGet help Cheesy. You don't have to be afraid of everything.
Though I am interested which Reichwing hack you got that scenario from. "Blackmailing Europe with a nuke or two while the mighty Hezbollah conquers Israel"? There's no way you pulled it out of your own butt.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:38 pmI'm bemused and confused.
There not in Poland to protect Poland from Iran or North Korea; they are there to protect Europe from Iran and North Korea.
So, North Korean missiles can reach not only Poland but actually beyond Poland? Srsly?
August 21st, 2008 at 6:39 pmOH MY! And from Mozambique, Lichtenstein and Papua New Guinea as well.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:44 pmSo if Iran gets a nuclear weapon, as the neocons would have us believe, they just couldn’t wait to use it on someone. It would be the stupidest thing they could do and its even more stupid to believe they would.
the point is you don't *have* to use it (at least very often, because if you did use them, there would be nothing left); that's why nuclear weapons are so brilliant.
i am very much anti-war, but after thinking about for a long time, i have arrived at the understanding that nuclear weapons is sort of like gambling, more than actual brute force.
the civil war didn't use any nuclear weapons, but there was enormous bloodshed, carnage, injury, environmental destruction, etc....
we need to face facts about who we want to have weapons. if you were in charge of this country, what would you do? how many liberals here want iran to have a bunch of nuclear warheads?
i'm just asking. me? i'm not sure what i would do......it's an incredibly unfortunate decision to have to make.....
but war is a fact of life (based on the historical record). so, do we try and always keep the upper edge on other countries, or do we completely diminish our military, by say 75%, and just become a modest, peaceful nation like denmark?
screw the defense contractors, but man.....it's tough....
August 21st, 2008 at 6:44 pmCan you not see the difference between a democratic republic like the US and a midievil, messianic theocracy like Iran?...
When we have a messianic nutcase like Bush running the show, not so much.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:45 pmCheese and Crackers Says:
To say that because we have nuclear weapons that therefore we are hypocrites if we do not allow every other regime on the planet to have them too is moral relativism take to a suicidal extreme.
Fixed that for you.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:45 pmdo we try and always keep the upper edge on other countries,
August 21st, 2008 at 6:47 pmBy building useless 'defense shields' that don't work and piss off countries who actually HAVE nuclear warheads and the missles to deliver them?
or do we completely diminish our military, by say 75%, and just become a modest, peaceful nation like denmark?
Can we? Please? That sounds like a great idea...
Regardless of whom the missile defense shield is designed to protect, Russia was kind enough to point out to Poland that they have now become the first strike targets by whoever the enemy is at any given moment. I would imagine that the Poles are now seriously reconsidering their options. The Poles must now decide what is more important, life or a missile defense shield designed to protect greater Europe and not necessarily Poland.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:48 pmdarladooner Says:
how many liberals here want iran to have a bunch of nuclear warheads?
I'm betting on: none.
But on the other hand, how many liberals here wanted Pakistan, North Korea or India to have a bunch of nuclear warheads, too? Probably none either, but that didn't stop the USA from letting them acquire nukes.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:50 pmTo say that because we have nuclear weapons that therefore we are hypocrites if we do not allow every lunatic regime on the planet to have them too is moral relativism take to a suicidal extreme.
key flaw in this statement is that iranians are "lunatic regimes". are they lunatic because they want weapons; or are they lunatic because they threaten israel; or are they lunatic because they invented mathematics and philosophy?
which is it?
Can you not see the difference between a democratic republic like the US and a midievil, messianic theocracy like Iran?
wow! thanks for proving my point about arrogance. have you even been to iran? do you have any idea what you are talking about?
August 21st, 2008 at 6:53 pmA. get a globe of the world. B. get some string. C. stretch the string from North Korea to London, England. You will notice that it never crosses Poland. D. stretch the string from Iran to London, England. It never crosses Poland.
So who exactly is Condi trying to fool? Better stick to trying on new shoes, Condi. Something you can handle.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:53 pmBut on the other hand, how many liberals here wanted Pakistan, North Korea or India to have a bunch of nuclear warheads, too? Probably none either, but that didn’t stop the USA from letting them acquire nukes.
times have changed, and more countries (powerful ones like india) need them for the same reasons we do.
like i have said, nuclear warfare is the most intelligent form of warfare there is, as it severely limites the potential for actual war. the reason being is, there is a limited amount of space involved (the playing field, as it were); once that space is gone, there is no more war. therefore, players in the game will not move in the direction of out-and-out war. just surgical moves here and there....
sounds gross, i know, but it's true....
August 21st, 2008 at 6:56 pmJeebus... she must think the rest of us are as STUPID as she is...
August 21st, 2008 at 6:57 pmCheese and Crackers Says:
To say that because we have nuclear weapons that therefore we are hypocrites if we do not allow every lunatic regime on the planet to have them too is moral relativism take to a suicidal extreme.
A "lunatic regime" already possesses nuclear weapons.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:57 pmdarladooner Says:
times have changed, and more countries (powerful ones like india) need them for the same reasons we do.
Be afraid of countries armed with nuclear weapons, where the people believe in reincarnation.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:58 pmOf course the reason they give is total BS...since when does Iran have a problem with Poland? And does anyone think N Korea would fire a missile across Russian territory? Of course not, this is Bush and Cheney's Necon way of starting WWIII...hopefully we will have a NON-WAR MONGERING president come Jan.
If McSame steals the election, my wife and I are making plans to leave the country, this place will be finished...South Pacific Islands sounds good, away from the radiation and all.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:58 pmI'm more worried about the long range missile threat from Bolivia and Angola.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:59 pmBy building useless ‘defense shields’ that don’t work and piss off countries who actually HAVE nuclear warheads and the missles to deliver them?
how can a defense shield be worthless?
just asking, not trying to be mean....
August 21st, 2008 at 6:59 pmBuckie Boy Says: #39
I hear New Zealand is nice too.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:00 pmSouth Pacific Islands sounds good, away from the radiation and all.
does anyone else appreciate the irony in this statement?
August 21st, 2008 at 7:02 pmjaramilr Says:
Remember that the Earth is a sphere and not flat like a map.
______________
Whoa... heresy!!!
The Earth is FLAT... 'n only 6,000 yrs old ta boot!!!
August 21st, 2008 at 7:02 pmhow can a defense shield be worthless?
It's worse than useless...
August 21st, 2008 at 7:03 pmIt's expensive.
It has a hard time hitting one warhead effectively.
In the event of an actual attack you can be sure that there will be way more than one warhead- not to mention the decoys.
It pisses of the Russian.
It makes the Poles nervous.
It makes us look like buffoons, who believe in magic 'shields'
That's how.
Now that's one stupid troll. I don't even know where to start so I'll just deal with it at random.
First of all, contrary to popular belief, Iran is a modern country by the standards of the region. While it's true that the Imams hold lots of power (Which kinda shoots the whole "Ahmadinejad is a dictator" crap out of the water.) they have, since the end of the Iran-Iraq war, discovered that peace brings prosperity. And the people of Iran are driving their modernization and moderation.
As for the grand plan of using Iranian nukes to keep Europe from defending Israel? That's ridiculous on many levels. I'll just leave it at, Israel has actual nuclear weapons in service. They won't wait for anyone to come to their aid.
Neither N. Korea or Iran have ballistic nuclear missiles and neither is likely to develop them soon or in secret. Any effort to deploy nuclear missiles can be interdicted before launch.
Deploying an anti-missile system to protect anyone from Iran or N. Korea is simply a lie. It would make more sense to occupy Mexico to protect us from "South American communists". Or give the Air National Guard orders to shoot down Santa on Christmas Eve.
The truth of the matter is that this is a provocative act aimed at Russia AND NO ONE ELSE. And anyone who claims otherwise is a liar, a fool, or both.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:03 pmdarladooner Says:
Can you not see the difference between a democratic republic like the US and a midievil, messianic theocracy like Iran?
wow! thanks for proving my point about arrogance. have you even been to iran? do you have any idea what you are talking about?
Americans' perceptions of life in Iran is so unrelated to reality that it's more than a little frightening. Here's a simple slideshow of life in Tehran, which is far from medieval.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:04 pmdarladooner Says:
how can a defense shield be worthless?
Well, in this case it's worthless because they're only 10 missiles. Which would do squat if Russia should ever decide to attack Europe with 600 nukes.
And they are pissing the Russians off.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:05 pmTripleKick 13 Says:
How sadly typical that TP doesn’t support America’s allies or their security. Liberalism generally has a short and selective memory in these matters.
What's really sad is how thoroughly stupid and devoid of content your comments are.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:10 pmIt makes us look like buffoons, who believe in magic ’shields’
That’s how.
it seems like building a shield would alter the strategies of our "enemies", wouldn't it?
it's sort of like having a good hand in cards....even the intent on building a shield, without actually having finished it or tested it or whatever....is a sort of maneuver....
i don't happen to agree with it, i'm just sayin'....
August 21st, 2008 at 7:10 pmFlagged on sight. Buh-bye TK13.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:10 pmHow does provoking Russia help "America's allies" or their "security"?
August 21st, 2008 at 7:11 pmDeploying an anti-missile system to protect anyone from Iran or N. Korea is simply a lie.
why tell the truth?
that's the whole point....
August 21st, 2008 at 7:13 pmTripleKick 13 Says:
How sadly typical that TP doesn’t support America’s allies or their security. Liberalism generally has a short and selective memory in these matter
__________
Naaaaaaaah... as usual, ya got it all wrong.
We just can't stand the sort of overweening stupidity Rice specializes in.
You... on the other hand...
August 21st, 2008 at 7:13 pmit seems like building a shield would alter the strategies of our “enemies”, wouldn’t it?
Yes, now they build 200 nukes instead of 20 so they can be sure that some get through...
August 21st, 2008 at 7:14 pm200 is harder to keep track than 20...
200 is more expensive to maintain than 20...
An underpaid guard at the decaying storage facility gets offered $10,000 to look the other way while someone walks off with one of the 200...
Suddenly we're way less secure because of the shield than we were before it...
That's why it's a bad, bad, bad idea.
(plus, it doesn't work- it's a bluff not a good hand)
As for the grand plan of using Iranian nukes to keep Europe from defending Israel? That’s ridiculous on many levels. I’ll just leave it at, Israel has actual nuclear weapons in service. They won’t wait for anyone to come to their aid.
i'm curious about this. can you explain what you mean?
to what sort of 'grand plan' do you refer?
August 21st, 2008 at 7:15 pmdarladooner Says:
to what sort of ‘grand plan’ do you refer?
He's referring to a hypothetical Iranian plan to blackmail Europe, as proposed by Cheese and Crackers somewhere around comment #13.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:18 pmIt is truly painful to watch the Botch Admin continue to blunder thru to end...
They have destabilized the world to a frightening degree in just 8 short years.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:18 pm"...will help us to deal with the new threat to the 21st century of long-range missile threats from countries like Iran or from North Korea."
she probably just confused the countries, and demonstrated an extraordinary lack of tact, but how do we know that the shield will be "worthless"?
August 21st, 2008 at 7:19 pmCheese and Crackers Says:
Why is it that the Left always, instinctively sides with Americas adversaries and enemies?
__________
Actually, it'd be more useful to ask, why are wingnutters like Cheesehead so Dog damned F-in' stupid?
August 21st, 2008 at 7:20 pmThanks for the slideshow gummitch. Also, doesn't anyone think that if someone were to launch a missile strike against our interests that they would target those 10 worthless magic shield missiles first?
August 21st, 2008 at 7:20 pmHe’s referring to a hypothetical Iranian plan to blackmail Europe, as proposed by Cheese and Crackers somewhere around comment #13.
usa + israel = more military power the world has ever known, combined
x 1,000,000,000
that's not a very "grand" plan...that's quixotic....
August 21st, 2008 at 7:21 pmdarladooner Says:
i’m curious about this. can you explain what you mean?
to what sort of ‘grand plan’ do you refer?
August 21st, 2008 at 7:15 pm
I was referring to the trolls ridiculous assertion that Iran would use it's, hypothetical, nukes to blackmail Europe into abandoning Israel to Hezbollah. And that Israel is perfectly willing, and capable, to defend itself from any credible threat.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:21 pmbut how do we know that the shield will be “worthless”?
See #46...
August 21st, 2008 at 7:23 pmdarladooner Says:
... but how do we know that the shield will be “worthless”?
It is estimated the Russians have close to 6,000 active nuclear warheads in their arsenal... what sort of missile shield is going to stop that if an all-out shooting war begins?
The Israelis have an estimated 100-200.
Think the Iranians are going to lob ONE nuke and take 20 or 30 in return?
Or N Korea? this is an embarrassingly silly discussion...
Calling Dr Strangelove... calling Dr Strangelove...
August 21st, 2008 at 7:26 pmCalling Dr Strangelove… calling Dr Strangelove…
Well, I hate to admit it but I did work on nuke missiles (B52 Hounddog) here while in the Air Force, and this idea of a missile defense in Poland is ridiculous.
It is just to threaten Russia, the "shoot down N Korean nukes" argument is silly, how happy do you think Russia would be to have those "nukes" shot down over their territory, not very, and you don't think that N Korea knows this.
This is just more Bush/Cheney NeoCon stupidity.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:31 pmper rachel maddow (i think this is what she referenced) -
did ackerman note that it is CONGRESS who enters into agreements, and not the Sec of State?
eh?
August 21st, 2008 at 7:31 pmBuckie Boy Says:
This is just more Bush/Cheney NeoCon stupidity.
_____________
Gee... ya think???
August 21st, 2008 at 7:34 pmShooting Down the Hype
Fred Kaplan is a good source on this issue.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:34 pmkaty Says:
per rachel maddow (i think this is what she referenced) -
did ackerman note that it is CONGRESS who enters into agreements, and not the Sec of State?
eh?
____________
So what's the deal here, katy? Did Congress approve this stupidity, or is this just our beloved Chimperor acting on his own, AGAIN, 'cause he jes' knowes better than everyone else... ????
August 21st, 2008 at 7:35 pmThere's a problem with the trolls "logic". It still thinks that alleged associations with allegedly "unsavory characters" in some way mitigates the fact that Flippy McSpin and his neocon brethren ARE "unsavory characters".
August 21st, 2008 at 7:41 pmCheese and Crackers Says: #73
And George Bush is close friends with the bin Laden family and the House of Saud of Saudi Arabia. One of the most tyrannical, inhuman abusers of human rights on the planet. So is daddy Bush. Grampy Bush did tons of business and enabled Adoph Hitler.
So you think that ad will do anything meaningful for you and the rest of the paranoid, lying, warmongering neocons? I think it will turn more people to Obama who are as sick of this shit as I am.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:44 pmMay the best man win.
Even though the best man has been thwarted by shenanigans the last two elections, this time it's looking more and more likely that the best man will occupy the White House.
August 21st, 2008 at 8:04 pmThanks for your support, C-n-C! Obama appreciates it I'm sure.
The Bush administration is ALSO proposing to install Patriot Missles in Poland.
Patriot missles have a range that would make them only Usefull against the RUSSIANS.
I'll repeat this for our Warrior Friends; Good Relations with Russia are CRUCIAL!
August 21st, 2008 at 8:11 pmCheese and Crackers Says:
Iran will aim it’s missiles (soon to be nuclear)at which ever European cities it thinks it can threaten, and then they will use that threat to blackmail Europe to stand aside while they use their proxy army, Hezbollah to attack Israel.
Although it should also be clear now to any person with their head screwed on straight, that Russia is also a serious threat to all of the former Eastern bloc countries.
Why is it that the Left always, instinctively sides with Americas adversaries and enemies?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
The real question is why are you such an idiot. Since when does Hezbollah care beans about anything except Lebanon? When did Europe see Iran as a huge threat to blackmail them? The answer to these questions is NEVER HAPPENED. Iran HAS no nuclear program every ONE of our 16 intelligence agencies say so. Israel HAS nuclear weapons Iran doesnt its ludcrous to talk about protecting Israel from Iran with a missile shield THAT DOESNT WORK in Poland. We get you are a moron why do you love seeing Americans DIE? Why are you so stupid. THOSE are real questions
August 21st, 2008 at 8:26 pmCheese and Crackers Says:
Were you dropped on your head as a child?
What would YOUR excuse be? YOU are stupider than the leftover hair on a barbershop floor.
To say that because we have nuclear weapons that therefore we are hypocrites if we do not allow every lunatic regime on the planet to have them too is moral relativism take to a suicidal extreme.
Can you not see the difference between a democratic republic like the US and a midievil, messianic theocracy like Iran?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Another hypocritical and incredibly ignorant excuse as to why the US has every right to demand other countries comply to standards they would NEVER except for themselves. You are a moron. Explain the difference to one of the many countries the US has invaded and overthrown. When was the last time Iran invaded another country? Wouldnt that be in the time of XERXES? My GOD you are ignorant
August 21st, 2008 at 8:30 pmI was looking at that "string and globe thingie" and the thought came that maybe if Korea can hit Europe with their imaginary missiles, why not just shoot across the Pacific or take out the Polar Bears or Anwar??? I think we ought to build missile shields in Alaska!!! Senator STEVENS!!!!! damn, where is that pork guy, THIS is too perfect!!! "A SHIELD for nothing"
August 21st, 2008 at 8:51 pmso, to conclude, the missle shield hasn't a single positive characteristic?
not one?
if you were russia, you would just laugh, then?
August 21st, 2008 at 9:10 pmso, to conclude, the missle shield hasn’t a single positive characteristic?
August 21st, 2008 at 9:27 pmNo.
not one?
I guess it's providing jobs for a few weapons techs...
if you were russia, you would just laugh, then?
Would we laugh if Russia put missiles in Cuba? Seems to me we had a different reaction when that was suggested...
I just got crashed while posting a comment here--not by Think Progress, but, I assume, the invisible hand. The NSA has its ways to rule on certain key words or phrases. This has happened way too many times. It is not my browser, it is not my computer. Let's just say we haven't had a president for the last 8 years. I am not a nut or a conspiracy theorist. I am quite lucid, not radical, not violent. Only a patriot. And my party ignores me and considers me the enemy for my overly liberal views. "We mustn't make waves."
The new president will have an enormous job getting us back to 2000 and restoring the constitution. Is that now a 4-letter word?
Whoever it will be will not even try. My prediction of early failure. And McCain will actively destroy any hope of peace, of prosperity for you and me.
Sorry. Crappy day, crappier future. I no longer believe we can even try to influence, in a small way, the direction of the ship of state. If anybody has other information, let me know.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:21 pmPeople, missle technolgy transfers are a threat, and Poland as well as much of Europe are in the reange of any medium range balistic missle.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:28 pmShow of hands, how many of you confuse the missles in Cuba which were ballistic missles capable of destroying the east coast twithhe anti-ballistic weapons that designed for the shield?
robert verdi Says:
People, missle technolgy transfers are a threat, and Poland as well as much of Europe are in the reange of any medium range balistic missle.
Show of hands, how many of you confuse the missles in Cuba which were ballistic missles capable of destroying the east coast twithhe anti-ballistic weapons that designed for the shield?
___________
Show of hands now, TPers... is there ANYBODY here who can actually understand this idiot's jabbering?
August 21st, 2008 at 10:29 pmdarladooner Says:
so, to conclude, the missle shield hasn’t a single positive characteristic?
not one?
if you were russia, you would just laugh, then?
_____________
This is an asinine comment.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:33 pmcheese and crackers,
August 21st, 2008 at 10:34 pmgood work.
Eugene Debbs,
I don't know when Iran will have atomic weapons, but they have program. I suppose you hope it will never affect us, but in the real world one atomic bomb can ruin your day. By the way nuclear bombs are so risky to the world that the argument, well we have them so where hypocrites to slow or stop proliferation is wrong.
robert verdi Says:
I don’t know when Iran will have atomic weapons, but they have program. I suppose you hope it will never affect us, but in the real world one atomic bomb can ruin your day. By the way nuclear bombs are so risky to the world that the argument, well we have them so where hypocrites to slow or stop proliferation is wrong.
________________
I understand this now. Once again, the RNC has contracted its trolling out to the lowest bidder. From the lack of grammar, twisted syntax and general low grade of the thoughts, I'd say this one is prolly in Bulgaria, or perhaps Albania.
BTW, dimwatt, it was Botch who canned SALT, not the Russians, or the N Koreans, or the Iranians.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F06EFDA1231F937A1575BC0A9679C8B63
In addition, the GOOPers in control of Congress at the time CUT FUNDING to go get unsecured nuclear materials lying around the old Soviet Union... real far-thinkin' fellers, them GOOPers...
August 21st, 2008 at 10:46 pmIve read these posts and I would like to say that if anything Bush stuck it into Putin on this one, All Putin gets is a peace negotiation with Georgia
This is a missile base! Remember that missiles can be easily modified. It really isnt to much unlike the Cuban "crisis."
That vampire looking woman is flexing US Muscle, and incoherently attempting to justify it. It was a tactical mistake to set up a fight with Russia, Georgia getting the go ahead was atrocious and diabolical, but it framed the public well for the acceptance of this initiative. Putin is left crying to deaf ears after his stunt, and the American people cant even see the facts if it hit them on the head.
What will Putin do?
Russia is unhappy with America, but it is even more furious at Georgia. And now Poland.
The funding for this should be withheld on ethical reasons alone, but the industrial research being done is a strategic plus for our brand of liberal republicanism. Obama will keep it.
This technology will easily compete with Iranian Missiles, and for that matter it may one day be fielding objects from places unknown.
Not a chance that it every shot will be successful but it turns into a resource war and a tool to convince allies to alienate Iran or anyone in the regions covered. How many missiles will the Iranians have to shoot. The Russians aren't really effected, neither Chinese, Israelis, Japan, or India (the last one only somewhat). As for the Europeans, though they can overcome this obstacle they are now postured as targets in that they are aligned with what we are doing.
Of course Russia is disgusted, maybe they should have a talk to Raul and Fidel again, they could build a "defense" base for Venezuela. Apparently, unlike the maniacs in thr Bush Admin, Putin is a more peaceful man when it comes to playing the joneses with the US.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:48 pmRobert Verdi~
What is the stated purpose of the 'missile shield'?
Isn't it to make Europe safer?
How does antagonizing Russia with a useless battery of ten (10) anti-ballistic warheads with a 60% success rate (under perfect and controlled conditions) make Europe safer?
It doesn't.
Show of hands, who understands Strategic thinking and International Relations... would you please help our Secretary of State? She and robert verdi seem lost...
August 21st, 2008 at 10:50 pmThe idea of North Korea bombing Poland is not without precedent....
From Conservative Snark Wiki...
The ethnic rivalry between the Poles and Koreans goes back to the WWII days when Korea occupied Poland for years before the Germans invaded kicked them out, and the Russian gave the occupying Koreans asylum in Belarus. This part of history isn't well know because the liberal media doesn't want it out.
August 21st, 2008 at 11:28 pmrobert verdi Says:
Eugene Debbs,
I don’t know when Iran will have atomic weapons, but they have program. I suppose you hope it will never affect us, but in the real world one atomic bomb can ruin your day. By the way nuclear bombs are so risky to the world that the argument, well we have them so where hypocrites to slow or stop proliferation is wrong.
You do understand your post was just stupid dont you? First Iran DOES have a nuclear program? Really? You know this how? I mean all 16 of OUR intelligence agencies say otherwise. I guess what with your vast resources as an idiot posting on a message board our intelligence agencies with their billion dollar budgets their thousands of resources the world over are obsolete. We just need to ask YOU. Why are you wasting your time on this board contact the CIA and explain to them how much better YOU know what Iran is up to than THEY do. I am sure THEY like me could use the laugh so spread the wealth. I love the logic of just telling us we are wrong. I guess you are just the arbiter of all that is true or false right or wrong...Nah thats just stupid. I am all for slowing proliferation. I dont really see how implementing a missile shield THAT HASNT BEEN SHOW TO WORK does that. Negotiations do that. What IS hypocritical, I suggest you look the word up I dont think it means what you think it does, is throwing a FIT about other countries trying to obtain nuclear weapons while we not only say we are keeping ours but telling the world we are building a whole new generation of what Bush called MORE USABLE nuclear weapons. Your posts are weak and your logic non-existant
August 21st, 2008 at 11:57 pmCitiDC Says:
Only to have US “ally” Georgia be invaded by Russia - who ain’t going anywhere now.
No one could have anticipated, indeed.
Get your facts straight. Georgia invaded and slaughtered people in South Ossetia first. You are listening to too much Ed Shultz, Obama, Joe "Zionist' Biden, George Bush, Condi Rice, Dick Cheney, and CNNBCBSFOXMSNBC.
http://www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/Shalom-interview-Senator-Biden.html
http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0....to_Georgia.html
August 21st, 2008 at 11:59 pmI love how the republican pundits are doubting Obama's experience. And Bush's experience consisted of what? One term as Texas governor. Before that, domestic playboy, party hound, beer guzzling, coke tooting, under-achieving rich kid. If those are qualifications for being president then George Bush has succeeded again in lowering the bar for all who endeavor to ascend (or descend) to that office.
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:11 amIf Iran ever had any nuclear missiles and if they ever had any nuclear missiles that could travel five thousand miles, and if Iran was totally suicidal and wanted to be wiped off the face of the earth, then yes, I guess they could travel over Poland.
But North Korea? No, they would not travel over Poland. They would travel over Alaska or the North Pole--If North Korea had any that could travel that far and if they were totally suicidal.
What placing a missile shield in Poland will accomplish is a new arms race with Russia. Aren't we tied down in Iraq and Afghanistan and the other 750 bases in 125 countries?
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:37 am#13 Cheeto fingers and Phil Grahm Crackers Whines:
Lets get some FACTS correct...
1) Iran, through the IAEA is allowed to enrich uranium for nuclear fuel to power nuclear reactors for energy independance.
2) Iran's enrichment process is allowed to enrich up to 5% strength, according to IAEA standards. Currently, Iran is enriching to around 3% and pushing toward 5%
3) To make a nuclear weapon, ANY nation that seeks to manufacture uranium for that purpose, would need to enrich said uranium to at least 80% streangth.
4) Since the USA has been the only nation to ever use nuclear weapons, TWICE, upon civilian populations, please explain how people from the USA are qualified to be the moral police when it comes to said use of nuclear weapons.
5) Depleated uranium is currently being used in weapons by the USA. Please explain how the use of depleated uranium doesn't harm civillian populations and doesn't create long term heath consequences for ANY civilian population.
6) Since when is the continued use of nuclearized weapons upon civillian populations by the USA a nullifying factor when deciding who should and shouldn't use nuclearized weapons upon civilian population?
7) Please provide evidence that Iran is currently capable of sending missles into northern European regions.
8) Do you always believe what the National State feeds you?
9) Are you a Loyal Nationalist?
.
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:49 amchimpy paid millions to NK to destroyed their nukes.
who do they think they're kidding? Certainly not Russia.
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:49 amSay what.
Any North Korean launch would be to the east rather than the west with the intercept fired over Russia.
Any Iranian missiles launched at the US would travel over Russia, not Poland, so we would again have to launch over Russia.
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:50 amMax-1,
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:49 amOnly if you consider 4 Billion years "long term".
The armament industry and its drones in the WH need wars so they continue to get most of the Tax payers money allocated to their madness and continue to make obscene profits...
August 22nd, 2008 at 2:21 amIts impossible to buy what she says when there are programs such as "Full spectrum dominance". If Russia did the same then USA would protest very loudly and simply not allow this (and shouldn't). I don't think Russia should accept this either.
August 22nd, 2008 at 3:28 amThis is one huge step closer to another cold war that the world does not need. And people wonder why I dislike politicians?
How much more damage does this woman have to do before Bush leaves? Her incompetency and bad judgement is dangerous. Or does the Bush administration think that starting WWIII would be good for the election?
August 22nd, 2008 at 4:54 amAccording to FAS, the range of Iran's best operational missile is in the neighborhood of 2000 miles. It would be capable of striking most of eastern and central Europe, including Moscow, Warsaw, and Prague.
August 22nd, 2008 at 7:32 amThere's a fascinating map at the site. Check it out (scroll down)...
Pathetic - Can't she tell the truth ONE time and quit being a parrot.......................
August 22nd, 2008 at 7:35 amThat's like Russia putting missiles in Cuba and telling the US they will block missiles from Venezuela.
August 22nd, 2008 at 7:36 amJust more taxpayer money for favored military contractors.
August 22nd, 2008 at 8:47 amThe Russians will do likewise so what is accomplished but the addition of nukes at a time we should be reducing them.
Controlled by the little minds of america's establishment who fear alll.
Yeah, I'm so sure that Condi's saying this will make Russia feel soooooooo much better about us putting warheads on their border.
Remember how we were with the Cuban Missle Crisis ? Why shouldn't Russia be a teeeeny weeeeny bit upset that we're putting missles on their border.
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:29 amWhat's really pathetic is that Rice-a-roni is allegedly a Russia expert.
I guess when you think being a military super power allows you to do anything without any consequences. Besides isn't it really about the US placing some stakes in the game of "protecting" central asia and it's natural gas and oil?
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:57 amMax-1 Says:
Max that was an excellent and explicit debunking. You do understand though that FACTS, and well, REALITY have no ability to penetrate the atmosphere of Planet Wingnut
August 22nd, 2008 at 8:31 pm