Despite White House Claims Of ‘Aspirational Timelines,’ Maliki Says There Is ‘A Fixed Date’ For U.S. Withdrawal
Despite White House Claims Of ‘Aspirational Timelines,’ Maliki Says There Is ‘A Fixed Date’ For U.S. Withdrawal
Last Thursday, the U.S. endorsed a draft agreement that would remove “combat troops from Iraqi cities by next June and from the rest of the country by the end of 2011.” Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe both told reporters that the 2011 date was an “aspirational timeline.”
But Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki doesn’t view it as “aspirational.” In a speech to tribal leaders today, Maliki said that the U.S. and Iraq have reached an agreement on “a fixed date” for withdrawal:
Iraqi Prime Minister Prime Nuri al-Maliki said on Monday that an agreement had been reached in negotiations on a security pact with the United States to end any foreign military presence in Iraq by the end of 2011.
“There is an agreement actually reached, reached between the two parties on a fixed date which is the end of 2011 to end any foreign presence on Iraqi soil,” Maliki said in a speech to tribal leaders in the Baghdad’s heavily fortified Green Zone.
As ThinkProgress has previously noted, the Bush administration has spent years demonizing the concept of a timetable for withdrawing troops. In fact, Bush has bashed the very language that Maliki is now using:
“Earlier this week, I vetoed the bill Congress sent me because it set a fixed date to begin to pull out of Iraq, imposed unworkable conditions on our military commanders, and included billions of dollars in spending unrelated to the war.” [Bush, 5/5/07]
“Here is what Secretary of Defense Robert Gates recently told Congress: Setting a fixed date to withdraw would ‘essentially tell [the enemy] how long they would have to wait until we’re gone.’ [Bush, 3/17/07]
“If we were to listen to the Democrats in Washington, D.C. who say, let’s have a fixed date of withdrawal — by the way, that’s code word for saying, leave before the job is done — we would turn over this important country to radicals and extremists who would plot and plan and attack.” [Bush, 10/26/06]
As they have lurched closer to accepting a fixed timetable for withdrawal, the Bush administration has bent over backwards to avoid describing it as such. First, they claimed they were only discussing a “general time horizon.” Now, it’s “aspirational timelines.” What euphemism will they come up with next?
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So Obama was right, we are going to set a time line, or horizon, or some other thing that says we are leaving at a certain date. Couldn’t be soon enough for me. I am really tired of Vietnam in the desert.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:32 pmIt is good to see Maliki continue to push the Bush administration. His comments continue to show Obama in a good light.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:35 pmIt’s not a timeline, it’s a day circled on the calendar…Did I mention that mccain was a POW? …Obama still hasn’t answered fully why he chose to go to A madrasa…mcain has a secret plan to catch bin laden, at the gates of hell…did I mention he was a POW?
August 25th, 2008 at 1:38 pmFor a little levity let’s recall some other quotes from our glorious leader:
“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is.”
“I think it’s also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”
Of course he was talking about Clinton so I guess his words don’t apply to himself. IOKIYAR America!
August 25th, 2008 at 1:38 pmCondoleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezza said: “Who would have imagined that the Iraqis would consider ‘aspirational timelines’ to be ‘fixed deadlines’?”
August 25th, 2008 at 1:38 pmmccain is a POW: Prisoner of W
August 25th, 2008 at 1:40 pmCue McDepends’ clip of him accusing Obama wanting to “surrender” and ask him now how stupid he looks……..
August 25th, 2008 at 1:40 pmOnce again the W.H. is saying something different than Maliki and dubya and Condi look the fools,I love it.Nicely said number 2.We need Maliki to keep pushing the Shrub and his crime family around. Watchout Darth Cheney is in Georgia stirring things up a bit and he is also going to Italy to visit the other fascist dictator Berllesconi, getting some tips on how to control the masses………..
August 25th, 2008 at 1:41 pmSo: what is the status of our numerous “enduring” (not permanent, dammit) military bases in Iraq? Does this mean that Halliburton/Bechtel/et al are going to fold up camp, make sure the fire’s out, and come home? Somehow, I don’t think so…..
August 25th, 2008 at 1:42 pmOh nose, McCain doesn’t get his very own 100 year war.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:42 pm.
The Iraqis aspire for America to leave…
Bush… not so much.
.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:43 pmgood_golly7 Says:
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So Obama won’t get his way. We won’t leave in 16 months before the mission is completed. The end of 2011 is 28 months away. By then all 18 of Iraq’s 18 provinces should be under the control of Iraqi security forces. 11 of 18 so far, with 7 to go, and Iraqi security forces continue to gain in numbers and experience every day.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Wow , that’s quite impressive ; almost a decade in a dump that your useless GOP hierarchy claimed would take “about 6 months”.
Proud of that , you incoherent imbecile ?
August 25th, 2008 at 1:47 pm“So Obama won’t get his way”, Gigi?
Seriously?
What are you, five?
August 25th, 2008 at 1:49 pm.
Gi Gi,
Which is longer…
100 YEARS or 16 MONTHS?
… you do that math.
.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:52 pmThe number 5 ; so vitally descriptive to Goof_Jerky
It’s her age , IQ and number of invisible friends she has.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:56 pmAs for Cheney’s stop off in Italy, there’s an Italian sub (as in aubmarine) in the flotilla steaming toward Iran.
Recall Kuwait is implementing its war plan as a result.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:59 pm.
Gi Gi,
What IS the mission?
Why won’t IT be complete, like you said, in 16 months?
When will IT be completed?
Is this anything like the “SUCCESS” of the surge?
.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:59 pmgood golly,
The Iraqi government has actually agreed to a 16 month timeline for the withdrawal of “combat troops”. The remainder of the time is to get out the support elements and engineers. After July of 2009, however, troops will be confined to their bases and not allowed to patrol Iraqi streets, per the agreement.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:00 pmgood_golly7 Says:
So Obama won’t get his way. We won’t leave in 16 months before the mission is completed. The end of 2011 is 28 months away. By then all 18 of Iraq’s 18 provinces should be under the control of Iraqi security forces. 11 of 18 so far, with 7 to go, and Iraqi security forces continue to gain in numbers and experience every day.
______________
I’m impressed. g_g musta took off both shoes and socks to do this much math…
“Lemme see… elebenty twelve minust seben equals… no… no… gotta start over… this little piggie went to Bagdad…”
August 25th, 2008 at 2:01 pmmontysano Says:
So: what is the status of our numerous “enduring” (not permanent, dammit) military bases in Iraq? Does this mean that Halliburton/Bechtel/et al are going to fold up camp, make sure the fire’s out, and come home? Somehow, I don’t think so…..
August 25th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
________
Good question. I’ve been wondering about this as well. Are military bases like embassies, in that they’re technically considered the foreign country’s soil? If so, then our troops would just have to withdraw to the fences of the bases and they’d be “off Iraqi soil.”
August 25th, 2008 at 2:04 pmA timeline by any other name still doesn’t change the fact that GW is now a surrender monkey, by his own definition. And look, just in time for the elections, too. The GOP plays their peons like the puppets they are.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:05 pmgood_golly7 Says:
So Obama won’t get his way. We won’t leave in 16 months before the mission is completed.
Actually for any treaty or agreement to be valid, it also has to be approved by Congress. Obama will no be bound by any agreement Bushco makes if Bush does not make it valid by getting Congress to approve it first.
I don’t see that happening.
So Obama could still pull out within 16 months still following his plan.
Are you trying to get to # 8 today goofy?
August 25th, 2008 at 2:06 pmSecretary of State Condoleezza Rice and White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe both told reporters that the 2011 date was an “aspirational timeline.”
aspirational
one entry found
aspiration
Main Entry: as·pi·ra·tion
Pronunciation: \?as-p?-?r?-sh?n\
Date: 14th century
2: a drawing of something in, as if by suction
August 25th, 2008 at 2:06 pmHow exactly does condi explain what aspirational timeline means to chimpy? He probably has a calendar with stickers on it that remind him to pick up his toys, bomb countries, etc.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:10 pmBoy gigi, that’s a mouthful of rethuglican group speak, it’s almost like you cut and pasted that off a list of talking points or something…
August 25th, 2008 at 2:12 pmgood_golly7 Says:
I beleive the the mission is to continue to train and work with Iraqi security forces, combating and disarming al Qaeda in Iraq and other criminal elements, until all 18 provinces are under the control of Iraqi security forces under the command of a freely elected Iraqi government. The Surge has helped greatly towards that goal, and the end is in sight.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
_______
And what do you think is going to happen when the surge of refugees returns home from Syria and Jordan to find squatters in their homes? Or when we cut off the surge of funding to the Sunni Awakening councils? Or when the Sadrists stop their surge of ceasefire? How’s the surge going to help with that?
August 25th, 2008 at 2:12 pmg-g : So Obama won’t get his way. We won’t leave in 16 months before the mission is completed. The end of 2011 is 28 months away.
That’s absolutely right G-G! Obama can’t possibly get the troops out in 16 months because it HAS to be in 28 months, right?
Still it’s nice to know that ‘the mission’ will be completed in exactly 28 months. Iraq will have paid for the war, have a thriving economy and a democracy and all the WMD will have been found by then. I hope someone remembered to keep the Mission Accomplished banner!
August 25th, 2008 at 2:13 pmgood_golly7 Says:
I beleive the the mission is to continue to train and work with Iraqi security forces, combating and disarming al Qaeda in Iraq and other criminal elements, until all 18 provinces are under the control of Iraqi security forces under the command of a freely elected Iraqi government. The Surge has helped greatly towards that goal, and the end is in sight.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
The “criminal element” you speak of will be leaving in Jan of ‘09 ……………
August 25th, 2008 at 2:13 pmCNN reports as Maliki saying that “there will be no agreement on a U.S. withdrawal from Iraq unless it includes a ’specific’ timeline and is not ‘open-ended.’
Something tells me the war mongers aren’t going to like this one bit.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:14 pmI don’t understand the importance of the administration or Sen. McCain acknowledging the U.S. government, under George Bush’s leadership, is cutting and running from Iraq(?). To expect this is naive.
Besides, as McCain reassures voters – because of the “Surge” we are winning in Iraq, its a fact we’re winning! A steadfast refusal to even discuss facts.
I’ve never served in the armed forces, but apparently accomplishing missions while serving bravely under the American flag isn’t enough. To do what’s been asked of you as an American soldier, isn’t enough. Only when you’ve won can you lay down your arms.
I wonder what a soldier standing around a checkpoint for the last 16 months thinks about the victory McCain has achieved?
Facts largely escape Republicans. The idea is that violence is down, we’ve won. The only alternative is to say we’ll be there for 100 years, and you know that is a losing argument.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:14 pmHussien Toasterhead says:
And what do you think is going to happen when the surge of refugees returns home from Syria and Jordan to find squatters in their homes? Or when we cut off the surge of funding to the Sunni Awakening councils? Or when the Sadrists stop their surge of ceasefire? How’s the surge going to help with that?
Easy, Obama will be president by then, and the rethugs will blame him for us being in Iraq to begin with. Why didn’t he read that PDB of Aug 6th that said that bin laden was going to attack us? The housing collapse will be his fault too.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:15 pmgood_golly7 Says:
I beleive the the mission is to continue to train and work with Iraqi security forces, combating and disarming al Qaeda in Iraq and other criminal elements,
gigi obviously doesn’t know that the Iraqi security forces have started an offensive against the Sunni “Sons of Iraq” who are paid and armed by the US government and whom PM Maliki has accused of being al Qaeda in Iraq and other criminal elements.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:15 pmFor all you Obama supporters chew on this , Obama – ” we must leave troops in iraq , to protect OUR INTERESTS ” (60 minutes ). So i would suggest , ask your hero exactly WHAT or WHO our our interests are, i have none in Iraq and I imagine the average American doesn’t, however I do know for a FACT , JP MORGAN has many interests in Iraq , i do know Haliburton has “interests in Iraq ” , I do know the pentagon has ” interests in Iraq ” and drum roll…NEOCONS have interests in Iraq .
August 25th, 2008 at 2:15 pmJust pulling out ” combat troops ” leaves OVER 75,000 , not including mercenaries, in the tens of thousands .
Therefor the bottom line is Iraqis will suffer under an occupation in a McCain or obama occupation, so quibble about time lines or numbers or if the troops underwear are clean, the Embassy will be well staffed with military and intelligence officers and there will be BASES occupied by U.S. occupation forces . They ain’t leaving people !
good_golly7 Says:
The Surge has helped greatly towards that goal, and the end is in sight.
______________
And so have the bundles of cash we’ve been dropping all over the country, g_g…
What happens when the the Sunni militias refuse to turn over their weapons, as demanded by the the Irqi govt late last week, and the money dries up?
BTW, the link you provide leads back to a Neo-con think tank… Krauthammer? Gingrich? Lieberman?
Credibility? I… don’t… think so.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:16 pmgood_golly7 Says:
I beleive the the mission is to continue to train and work with Iraqi security forces, combating and disarming al Qaeda in Iraq and other criminal elements,
#####
Well, they have less than 11 months to accomplish all of that. After July 2009 – according to the Iraqi government – US troops will be confined to base
August 25th, 2008 at 2:18 pmgood_golly7 Says:
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Iraqi girl, suicide bomber turns herself in, has vest removed, and leads authorities to a second vest. Let us hope that we continue to see more heroes like this Iraqi girl as Iraq continues to progress towards standing up for herself. The more acts like this we see, the sooner the U.S. can leave.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/ tol/ news/ world/ iraq/ article4606947.ece
August 25th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Fan-bloody-tastic
We can leave a place we never belonged in the 1st place.
Halle-fu(kin-lujah
August 25th, 2008 at 2:20 pmGG: I beleive the the mission is to continue to train and work with Iraqi security forces, combating and disarming al Qaeda in Iraq and other criminal elements, until all 18 provinces are under the control of Iraqi security forces under the command of a freely elected Iraqi government.
It’s the President who decides what ‘the mission‘ is, and Bush won’t be the President in 2011.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:20 pmgood_golly7 Says:
So Obama won’t get his way. We won’t leave in 16 months before the mission is completed. The end of 2011 is 28 months away. By then all 18 of Iraq’s 18 provinces should be under the control of Iraqi security forces. 11 of 18 so far, with 7 to go, and Iraqi security forces continue to gain in numbers and experience every day.
Goony is dumb as rocks. It hasn’t a clue what it means to be President. Maliki forced Bush to agree to this timeline. Obama can do whatever he damn well pleases when he is President. If he chooses to bring our troops home in 16 months, there is nothing to stop him. He is not honor bound by agreements Maliki makes with Bush.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:21 pmgood_golly7 Says:
Apparently the concept of less than or equal too exceeds your comprehension. 16 months from Jan 2009 is <= Dec 2011. So there is a solution that both supports Obama’s goals and Malaki’s.
Additionally Obama has always stated he will observed conditions on the ground to adjust his goals. Unlike the current administration which nevers lets something as crass as facts influence their policies.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:21 pmgood_golly7 Says:
Iraqi girl, suicide bomber … Let us hope that we continue to see more heroes like this Iraqi girl…
August 25th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
______
Why are you supporting terrorism, GG?
August 25th, 2008 at 2:21 pmI’ll bet goofy_goony thinks that Saddam himself invited us into Iraq to overthrow the government, too — since he buys all the other crap the Bushies are selling.
*eyeroll*
August 25th, 2008 at 2:22 pmTo date? Or not to date?
That is the question. Whether ’tis nobler in the mind of a chymp to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous approval ratings,
August 25th, 2008 at 2:22 pmOr to take arms against a sea of oil and samd,
And by opposing bend them? To spend the rest on one’s term at Crawford.
good_golly7 Says:
——————————————————————————–
shoeless Says:
——————————————————————————–
good_golly7 Says:
I beleive the the mission is to continue to train and work with Iraqi security forces, combating and disarming al Qaeda in Iraq and other criminal elements,
gigi obviously doesn’t know that the Iraqi security forces have started an offensive against the Sunni “Sons of Iraq” who are paid and armed by the US government and whom PM Maliki has accused of being al Qaeda in Iraq and other criminal elements.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
________________________________
Actually, I have read about that, buy you haven’t told the whole story. Some “Sons of Iraq” are being disarmed. Others are being vetted, trained and transitioned into the Iraqi security forces.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
The “whole story” is hardly a site run by this garbage administration , you clueless chucklehead………..
August 25th, 2008 at 2:23 pmgood_golly7 said:
So Obama won’t get his way. We won’t leave in 16 months before the mission is completed. The end of 2011 is 28 months away. By then all 18 of Iraq’s 18 provinces should be under the control of Iraqi security forces. 11 of 18 so far, with 7 to go, and Iraqi security forces continue to gain in numbers and experience every day.
And then what? What have we gained, even presuming your assertion is true? Did we clear out a den of WMDs? Did we weaken or strenghten al-Qaeda? Any sign that democracy is blossoming throughout the region ala the PNAC Doctrine? Did the war pay for itself as predicted. What exactly did we get for the all the lives lost and the trillions spent?
So Obama won’t get his way.
That’s all that really matters to you isn’t it, that a Democrat didn’t “get his way.” Your loyalty to the party is so all consuming that this country could go to hell (like it has) as long as you perceive your party as the winner. I’ve got a news flash for you, unless you’re in the top few percent, we’ve all been the losers of the corporate take over of this country.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
August 25th, 2008 at 2:24 pmgood golly,
As afr as turning over security to the Iraqis, I have a trivia question for you. Name one (just one) political party currently serving in the Iraqi government that did not originate in Iran. (Hint: they all originated in Iran)
Also, what country did Maliki live in and serve as an active political figure in from 1980-2003? (Hint: Iran)
For extra credit: Iraq currently has an 8$ billion/year trade agreement with what country? (Hint: Iran)
The Badr Corps makes up almost all of the Iraqi military and police forces. They are 100% Shia. The Badr Corps was initially formed as a militia element in what country? (Hint: Iran)
August 25th, 2008 at 2:24 pmKahoneez Says:
For all you Obama supporters chew on this , Obama – ” we must leave troops in iraq , to protect OUR INTERESTS ”
Therefor the bottom line is Iraqis will suffer under an occupation in a McCain or obama occupation,
Sorry troll dung. Obama will not continue to occupy Iraq. He may leave some troops behind to guard Americans still in Iraq, but without 160,000 troops and an equal number of contractors, we will no longer be occupying Iraq. It will once again be their country under their control, which is what it should have been all along.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:25 pmWhat is really sad is that 7.5 years later, with an assist from the media, our national discussion on foreign policy/ war is rooted in semantics.
Why is no one, given the current circumstances, call the president out on his BS?
August 25th, 2008 at 2:26 pmgood_golly –
The Sons of Iraq are not transitioning – I wrote a full article on this just today. Click my name and you can read it.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:27 pmIs it me or does each new version of goony get dumber and dumber?
TP, please ban trolls by IP address. Since you aren’t doing it, one can only conclude that you like the troll dung on this site.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:29 pmSo, no troops in Iraq at all after 2011. I guess that whole “permanent bases” idea did not work out so well. And there is a hard, fixed date now. Hmmm. No one could have predicted this!
August 25th, 2008 at 2:31 pmwhat about the world’s largest embassy – the one in Bagdad? Will we still have a bunch of troops stationed there? I thought Barak talked about leaving some troops to help protect American diplomats working there. Except that, wasn’t that place built by the same guys who built the barracks where soldiers were electrocuted? Don’t know if I would want to be working there.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:32 pmAnd when are the private forces going to leave? Are they included in the timeline?
August 25th, 2008 at 2:32 pmGG: Obviously, this girl did not want to be a terrorist, so she turned herself in, had the vest removed, and showed authorities where they could find a second vest.
So a 13-year old-girl who didn’t want to be a suicide bomber in a country that didn’t HAVE suicide bombers until after the US invaded and Bush said “bring it on” proves that 5 years of war and occupation was worthwhile and that continued occupation is even more worthwhile?
you are one sick puppy, GG.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:33 pmgood_golly7 Says:
Uh-no. We liberated Iraq from the dictator, and his own people charged him with crimes against humanity, tried him, convicted him and hung him — as he deserved.
And along with that we “liberated” over a million innocent Iraq’s from their lives. We should be so proud. How many new terrorists do you think each death of an innocent made.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:33 pmdaveincolorado Says:
what about the world’s largest embassy – the one in Bagdad? Will we still have a bunch of troops stationed there? I thought Barak talked about leaving some troops to help protect American diplomats working there. Except that, wasn’t that place built by the same guys who built the barracks where soldiers were electrocuted? Don’t know if I would want to be working there.
######
The Iraqi government has said they want ALL US troops out by the end of 2011. They are confined to base after July of 2009, and “combat” troops are out in 2010. But all are out by the end of 2011. The Iraqi National Security Adviser has specifically said he wants no “visible” US troops by the end of next year.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:34 pmlivelongandprosper Says:
And when are the private forces going to leave? Are they included in the timeline?
###
Their departure is not, but they are bound by Iraqi law per the agreement. No more immunity.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:36 pmShe really has been in a nose-dive in terms of trolling quality.
Not sure if she’s just running out of material or if she’s a victim of an ideology that just refuses to give her anything to work with.
Since all of the other trolls seem to be in a similar nose-dive, I’m guessing the latter.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:36 pmdaveincolorado Says:
what about the world’s largest embassy – the one in Bagdad? Will we still have a bunch of troops stationed there? I thought Barak talked about leaving some troops to help protect American diplomats working there. Except that, wasn’t that place built by the same guys who built the barracks where soldiers were electrocuted? Don’t know if I would want to be working there.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
______
This function will probably be privatized to Blackwater, if it hasn’t already. They’re already handling most DipSec responsibilities as it is.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:37 pmSetting a fixed date to withdraw would ‘essentially tell [the enemy] how long they would have to wait until we’re gone.
Who’s the enemy? Shite? Sunni? They are both Iraqi’s.
by the way, that’s code word for saying, leave before the job is done…
The Job has been done for quite some time now, Bush and his criminal friends are just war profiting at this point.
Maliki is right to stand up to these Fascist War Criminals and demand that they leave the country ASAP.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:38 pmUh-no. We liberated Iraq from the wmd’s they didn’t have and the Shiites we replaced him with charged him with crimes against humanity, tried him, convicted him and hung him — as all under the watchful eyes of the US Military.
Fixed it right up for you Alice.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:39 pmKahoneez Says:
No “linky” no credibility.
Besides, that’s old news, and I really don’t give a flying fcuk if the mercenaries stay, I hope they all die there.
Just bring home the real American hero’s:
The one’s who VOLUNTEERED to serve bravely.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:40 pmIs good_golly the same as Mighty Aphrodite? They sure seem a lot alike.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:41 pma few stupid people might actually start believing you.
Now is not the time to “project” your idiotic system of distortion on us.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:41 pmIs good_golly the same as Mighty Aphrodite? They sure seem a lot alike.
“DING-DING-DING-DING-DING-DING-DING-DING-DING-DING!!!”
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:42 pmgood_golly7 Says:
It appears that you believe the theory that if you keep throwing out fake numbes like that and repeating them often enough, a few stupid people might actually start believing you.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
______
It’s not a fake number. It is a conservative estimate that there are 1.25 million Iraqis who have died between March 2003 and August 2008 who would not have died had the U.S. not invaded. The vast majority of these deaths have been from violent causes.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:43 pmal-Maliki is acting like he is really in charge in Iraq. Those guys are usually overthrown or assassinated, e.g., Noriega in Panama, Diem in S. Vietnam, Hussein in Iraq.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:44 pmgood_golly7 Says:
Chris LeJeune Says:
[,,,] per the agreement. […]
August 25th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
____________________
Correction — “draft agreement.”
######
True this is a draft agreement. However, there have been certain points that the Iraqi government has refused any compromise on from the beginning.
1. They will not sign any agreement that does not have a specific timeline for our withdrawal.
2. No immunity for contractors, they fall under Iraqi law – (This has been agreed to by our State Department as well)
3. Troops are confined to base after July, 2009. They are not allowed to patrol Iraqi streets. (This has also been agreed to by both sides.)
August 25th, 2008 at 2:45 pmGi Gi says:
Was this before or after Saddam invited us to Shock and Awe them into the stone age?
Was this before or after we tore apart their national identity?
Was this before or after we lifted the lid on Pandora’s Box?
If the “Jihadists” hate us for being there, then why do we stay?
“Freely elected” government… they’ve had TWO ELECTIONS ALREADY! The next one is delayed because this surge worked so well…
So, I suppose we stay untill they get it right?
.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:46 pmMax-1 Says:
Was this before or after we tore apart their national identity?
August 25th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
______
Well to be fair, their “national identity” was a British invention in the 1920s designed to keep the Kurds and Sunnis and Shia in a state of near-permanent conflict so they’d remain a protectorate coaling station for as long as possible.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:50 pmI took the opportunity to investigate Goony’s assertion that a young Iraqi girl strapped with a bomb turned herself in. Unfortunately for Goony, all the news sources I read said this girl was captured, not that she turned herself in. So, there goes goony’s “hero”.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:51 pmYes toasterhead,
But where were the exploding vests during THAT national identity? Car bombs? IED’s? AQ In Iraq?
I know, Saddam was a big bad tyrant…
… Is this why we kept the TORTURE/RAPE rooms?
.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:53 pmThe trouble with elevated versions of Trolls through cloning is that they get more stupid with each upgrade.
The movie, ‘Multiplicity’ shows the danger in cloning quite well.
g_g7 is a prime example of a cloned Troll who’s processors get fried when trying to reason.
And then there’s Dribbledick 10…
August 25th, 2008 at 2:57 pmGG: Uh-no. We liberated Iraq from the dictator, and his own people charged him with crimes against humanity, tried him, convicted him and hung him — as he deserved.
And in the process killed and injured hundreds of thousands, destroyed a lot of their infrastructure and their economy, displaced over 2 million people (some of whom were forced into prostitution just to survive), incarcerated tens of thousands without due process, allowed Al-Qaeda into Iraq, allowed ethnic-cleansing in the Baghdad suburbs, established cause for a generation of children to hate the US for their so-called ‘liberation’, established a government that only exists because of the deaths of over 4,100 US soldiers and the expenditure of over $600 billion of US taxpayer money thus far….
I could go on, but what matters to you is that one bad man who was supported by Reagan, Cheney and Rumsfeld in the 1980s and was provided by them with the tools to execute the crimes for which he was charged, and was given an ‘amber light’ to attack Kuwait by Bush41’s ambassador in 1991, met some justice.
Have you ever thought of going over to Iraq, GG, to receive at first-hand the thanks that you deserve for your support of the Bush/Neocon policies?
August 25th, 2008 at 2:58 pmSo, goofball_gooey, you completely missed the sarcasm in my post (not that I’m surprised) – I’m simply quoting one of your reichwing heroes, Dick “Prostie Toe Sucker” Morris – who insisted that we didn’t invade Iraq. No, he insists that the Iraqi government ASKED us to invade Iraq.
God, trollie, you’re reeeeeeeeally stupid.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:00 pmgood_golly7 Says:
Girl suicide bomber, 13, hands herself in to Iraqi police.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
______
It’s a pretty sad state of affairs when someone NOT blowing themselves up is a newsworthy headline. Meanwhile, stories about suicide bombers who don’t turn themselves in get relegated to page A13.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:03 pmOh but ALLLL those reichwing boys and girls (and things in between like Ann Coulter) are your heroes, goony. You don’t get to pick. They’re ALLLLLLLL yours!
August 25th, 2008 at 3:08 pmfrom Juan Cole’s site today
read, Alice, read…
Informed Comment
54 Killed in Bombings, attacks;
Water Crisis;
Fixing the Intelligence Around the Policy
A suicide bomber attacked a celebration in Abu Ghraib late Sunday, killing at least 30 and wounding 42. The gathering was in honor of a former prisoner in a US prison who had just been released and was attended by police and by members of the local Awakening Council that has fought radical Muslim vigilantes on behalf of the US.
A rash of attacks in Baghdad, Diyala and Mosul, left at least 54 people killed and 70 injured on Sunday.
…
Meanwhile, Al-Zaman reports in Arabic that the six million Baghdad residents are facing a severe shortage of clean water during the hellishly hot summer. Sadiq al-Shammari, the general director of Water Utility in the capital, said that residents of the capital only have access to half the clean water they need at a time when the temperature can reach 122 degrees Fahrenheit (50 C). Al-Shammari also said that every time the electricity goes out, it knocks out water production for 3 hours. He said 2.8 million square meters (roughly, yards) of water is produced for Baghdad, but that the demand is 4 million.
AFP has more on the water crisis.
…
McClatchy reports other political violence in Iraq on Sunday:
‘ Baghdad
Four people including a policeman were killed and 15 others including two policemen were injured by successive bombing of two IEDs near Nahdha bus station in east Baghdad around 9:00 a.m.
Three civilians were killed and five others were wounded by a roadside bomb that targeted a civilian car in al Dyna area northeast Baghdad around 12:00 p.m.
Two civilians were injured by a roadside bomb in Doura neighborhood around 1:30 p.m.
Around 7:00 p.m. an IED exploded near Shaab Stadium in east Baghdad. No casualties were reported.
Police found one unidentified body in Palestine Street in east Baghdad. . .
Diyala
A civilian and a policeman were killed and four other people were wounded when gunmen opened fire inside a bus station in downtown Baquba city northeast of Baghdad around 11:15 a.m.
Three civilians were killed and five others were wounded by a roadside bomb in Dayniyah village east of Baquba city around 2:00 p.m.
Four Iraqi soldiers were killed and eight others were injured by an IED that targeted a patrol of the Iraqi army in Dayniyah village east of Baquba city around 2:30 p.m.
Nineveh
Three policemen and a civilian were injured when a suicide car bomb targeted a US army convoy in al Maliyah intersection in east Mosul on Sunday morning.
Two insurgents were killed while they were trying to plant an IED in al Zohoor neighborhood in downtown Mosul city on Sunday morning. ‘
August 25th, 2008 at 3:08 pmgood_golly7 Says:
Iraqi girl aborts suicide bombing
Read bilbo, read.
Not always so cut and dry. Read, goonie, read.
Read, goonie, read.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Read goony, read:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=girl+iraq+bomb&btnG=Search
Notice how many times the word “caught” appears on that page?
August 25th, 2008 at 3:10 pmgood_golly7 Says:
Uh-no. We liberated Iraq from the dictator, and his own people charged him with crimes against humanity, tried him, convicted him and hung him — as he deserved.
I like this scenario for the near future: We liberated The U.S. from the dictators (Bush and Cheney), and their own people charged them with crimes against humanity, tried them, convicted them and hung them — as they deserved.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:14 pmgood_golly7 Says:
I know that a few here may be disappointed in a way that this girl didn’t give them an opportunity to be the latest to post, “but… but…. I thought the surge was working,” but they should recognize what courage it took for this girl to turn against her family, and to not just choose to not blow up her own vest, but to also lead the authorities to a second vest. She likely saved dozens of lives.
That “read, goony, read” just flew right past you, didn’t it?
I’ll post it again, shorter: Police said the girl, called Rania, was caught on Sunday when she approached a checkpoint in Baghdad with a wire sticking out of her black robe.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:15 pmHypocrite John McCain argues the withdrawl U.S. troops in Somalia back in 1993.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8TFKXHiefs
McCain was concerned about long drawn out wars and against nation building and the U.S. policing the world back then why not now? It is obvious that he and the rest of the republicans only support unnecessary wars and the unnecessary deaths of our soldiers when there is a republican president in charge.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:15 pmAugust 25th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
My last comment should have read “John McCain argues for the withdrawal of U.S. troops in Somalia”
August 25th, 2008 at 3:17 pmYou see TP, with you lack of proper registration and subsequent scurrying about to clean your house daily, you often delete meaningful, rational posts.
HECKUVA JOB!
August 25th, 2008 at 3:17 pmBilbo, gum, RUC, I admire your efforts to shake Gigi and clear the cobwebs from her head, but, as I noted earlier, Gigi has jumped the shark and is in a downward spiral as far as her trolling goes.
Sad to see such a noteworthy troll just fall apart like this, but those are the breaks of the 10-cents-a-post game, I guess.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:19 pmgoon_golly:
I even used bold when I presented the quote, goon.
US officials said she had turned herself in, while local police said she was caught after arousing suspicion.
Since the US officials weren’t there and the Iraqi police (who you’ve told us are standing up so we can stand down) were there, who do you suspect has the more accurate information?
August 25th, 2008 at 3:28 pmThat’s all you’ve got?
Gigi, I thought maybe a restful weekend would have helped you regain your edge. Apparently not.
You’re gonna need a month in a spa to rejuvenate your game. Or maybe a change of political viewpoint.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:54 pmToaster:
Well to be fair, their “national identity” was a British invention in the 1920s designed to keep the Kurds and Sunnis and Shia in a state of near-permanent conflict so they’d remain a protectorate coaling station for as long as possible.
Can’t quite agree there toasty.
You make it sound like the Brits maintained a ‘civil war’ (“conflict”).
The Kurds, Shia and Sunni didn’t ‘get-along’ for centuries, vastly predating the UK presence.
The British re-introduced the idea of an Afghan ‘monarch’ to form a pseudo-centralized government which the Brits could then control. The ‘nation’ of Iraq was established for British geo-political convenience of course to counter Russian and German imperial ambitions. Certainly the Brits had no interest in establishing a democracy and didn’t give a damn about Kurd/Shia/Sunni conflicts UNLESS they interfered with British influence and interests.
Coal wasn’t the interest, but OIL, so what the UK cared about was the oil fields and the port of Basra. Kuwait, by the way was carved out of the region as another “protectorate”—which Hussein tried to reclaim in 1991.
Germany had designs on Iraqi oil to power its Navy and industry to challenge the UK and began extending a rail link to Baghdad from Berlin.
The Brits were already converting their Navy to oil-power prior to WWI. The assassination of Crown Prince Ferdinand was just a fortuitous excuse for a fight over the oil that would either sustain the British Empire or power a new German Empire.
All the ententes and treaties just complicated and obscured the issue.
The Iraqi’s “national identity” really rather came about NOT by the creation of Iraq as defined by the British on a map, but by the fact that the ‘Iraqis’ realized that they had a very valuable resource under their feet from which they weren’t benefiting but which had the world in a deadly uproar.
Note that ‘Iraq’ as a nation was maintained even after the British left and despite traditional Kurd/Shia/Sunni enmity and despite German and Russian attempts to take control too.
I’d argue that each group has its own interests and its own strengths and weaknesses: the Kurds have oil in the north; the Sunni have the agricultural center and larger population, and the Shia have some oil and the port. Each is communally better-off (technically) working with each other, not against each other and the UK did NOT as you suggest encourage civil strife per se—it was NOT in the UK’s business interest to do so.
The Iraqi ‘national identity’ was established by rejecting foreign occupation and interference. It remains to be seen whether Iraq will advance further along that path when the US leaves.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:55 pm“Iraq will not hold any agreement or treaty on the basis of one foreign soldier’s presence on the Iraqi lands, but through putting a specified timetable for the withdrawal of the foreign troops,” PM Nouri al-Maliki
August 25th, 2008 at 4:02 pmgood_golly7 Says:
Girl suicide bomber, 13, hands herself in to Iraqi police.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And there had NEVER BEEN A SUICIDE BOMBING IN IRAQI HISTORY BEFORE THE INVASION. You really are a brainwashed piece of work
August 25th, 2008 at 7:04 pm