McCain’s Health Care Architect: There Are No Uninsured Americans
McCain’s Health Care Architect: There Are No Uninsured Americans
In an interview with the Dallas Morning News yesterday, John Goodman, the “Father of Health Savings Accounts” and architect of Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) health care plan, said the term “uninsured” is a misnomer because Americans have ER access. According to Goodman, “only people who are denied care are truly uninsured – everyone who gets care is effectively insured by some mechanism,” the paper states:
Mr. Goodman, who helped craft Sen. John McCain’s health care policy, said anyone with access to an emergency room effectively has insurance, albeit the government acts as the payer of last resort. (Hospital emergency rooms by law cannot turn away a patient in need of immediate care.)
“So I have a solution. And it will cost not one thin dime,” Mr. Goodman said. “The next president of the United States should sign an executive order requiring the Census Bureau to cease and desist from describing any American – even illegal aliens – as uninsured. Instead, the bureau should categorize people according to the likely source of payment should they need care. “So, there you have it. Voila! Problem solved.”
Goodman’s analysis reflects a radical view of the state of health care in this country. Uninsured Americans are less likely to seek health care and more likely to die because of a lack of insurance. A 2002 Institute of Medicine Report estimated 18,000 unnecessary adult deaths because of a lack of insurance. The Urban Institute estimated that 22,000 died in 2006 for the same reason. Goodman apparently thinks they were “effectively insured.”
In July 2007, President Bush offered similar commentary as Goodman:
I mean, people have access to health care in America. After all, you just go to an emergency room.
Not only is ER care the most expensive way to get health care, but it also does not provide dental care, eye exams, therapy, and routine check-ups. Moreover, the availability of good emergency room care is in decline. In 2006, 119 million visits were made to ERs, up from 90 million in 1996. At the same time, the number of hospital ERs dropped to fewer than 4,600, from nearly 4,900, causing wait times to also increase.
In the interview, Goodman slammed the “worthless statistics that people fling around in vacuous editorials and pointless debates,” about the number of uninsured. (HT: Texas Tom)
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Another GOOPER who wipes his ass with $100 bills.
Eat this one alive, Joe!!
August 28th, 2008 at 11:58 amHey, McCain’s Health Care Plan will eliminate the uninsured sector of the American Populace! That’s a winner right there!
Oh….what’s that? They’re not gone, just shuffled into a different, meaningless category because some buffoons want you to believe that being uninsured doesn’t really matter? Well, screw that noise!
August 28th, 2008 at 11:59 amCan we sentence him to live the remainder of his life without health insurance and other means to pay for health care?
August 28th, 2008 at 11:59 amWe can only be awed by the arrogance, elitism, and stupidity of ignorant people like Goodman.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:02 pmThis synthesizes the Republican attitude towards policy making perfectly: if the solution to the problem does not make us rich we will redefine the terms to make it go away instead. Forget the thousands whose health problems go untreated for lack of preventive medicine until they require emergency treatment. Forget the inefficiency of waiting so long. Jeebus, someone get this d*ckhead a dictionary so he can look up the word “insurance”.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:03 pmMcCain’s Health Care Architect: There Are No Uninsured Americans, Because They Are Dead in Our Eyes, Or Should Be>>
August 28th, 2008 at 12:03 pm“Jeebus, someone get this d*ckhead a dictionary so he can look up the word “insurance”.”
Actually, I’d prefer he suddenly, precipitously, unexpectedly, but permanently descended into penury, and that his children develop diabetes, his wife discover endometriosis, and somebody’d shove a shattered hockey stick up his ass…
but that’s jis me, hunh…
August 28th, 2008 at 12:06 pmInfants believe that the world goes away when they cover their eyes with their hands. A supposed adult should know that problems don’t just go away when you say so. However he’s a Republican, and that makes denial just a river in Egypt.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:06 pmImpeach Pelosi, Cheney and Bush and Save the Constitution!
Goodman takes pride in referring to himself as “Dr. Goodman” (probably to differentiate himself from the John Goodman who co-starred in a sit-com with Roseanne — and is probably more qualified to be a health care policy analyst).
And he is a doctor why? Because he has a PhD in economics!
Looks like he passed the “Stick Your Fingers in Your Ears and Yell La-La-La-La-La Real Loud” course. Heck, he probably taught it.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:08 pmOMFG! He’s kidding, right?
I work within the healthcare sector, and I can tell you that the uninsured are charged far more than any other person, no discounts, when they go to any healthcare provider. There is not an ER in the country that won’t charge a minimum of $400 just to speak with a nurse, and with no insurance, one is charged according to the fee schedule.
The “fee schedule is inflated to make up for the discounts these providers must give the insurance companies to be included in their “approved provider network” and also to use as a tool when renegotiating compensation rates with big insurance. Sound convoluted? Well, it is!
If you don’t pay, you get turned over the collections within 30 days. And ER’s are not the place to seek medical care.
PEACE
August 28th, 2008 at 12:08 pmDrive this one home, Democrats! Come on!
“if the solution to the problem does not make us rich we will redefine the terms to make it go away instead.”
It has become clear to me that these kinds of people have no comprehension of the true value of life. As prominent as this mode of thinking seems to currnently be, they will undeniably be dealt with, in due time, for being completely out of harmony with the universe.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:08 pmBut what are we doing to win this issue with the American people. There need to be a 527 ad – say an ER doctor talking about how he sees people with heart attacks who could have been saved had they had access to health care and medication to treat their high blood pressure or how someone lost a leg due to untreated diabetes since an ER can only treat an immediate need and not the underlying problem.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:09 pmThis is a little like saying that nobody in the United States has to go without food because there are always dumpsters one can dive into.
This guy would be hilarious, except that he appears to be serious. Even worse, there are Americans who agree with him.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:09 pmmore compassionate conservatism. When is enough too much?
Why are the nurses up in arms about the health care crisis then? Why don’t all Americans have the same health care that Cheny has?
chenycare
August 28th, 2008 at 12:09 pmyeah, 46 million Americans DO have health care. That’s what ERs are for.
snark.
Early start for the Holiday weekend. Have a safe, and good Labor Day weekend all.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:09 pm“After all, you just go to an emergency room.”
In other words, you wait until the appendix bursts?
August 28th, 2008 at 12:09 pmOr until the high blood pressure results in kidney
failure? Or until the stone in the salivary duct
turns into a toxic abscess?
Hey, if you’ve got a kid with diabetes and you’re running low on insulin and blood testing supplies, you can just run down to the local emergency room for more, right?
Will conservatives EVER stop the clowning on healthcare?
August 28th, 2008 at 12:10 pmHospital emergency rooms by law cannot turn away a patient in need of immediate care.
Nothing in the law prevents the ERs from billing the patient. So if the patient has no insurance on file to cover their visit, they are UNINSURED.
Stupid white, privileged, money-hungry dolt. Let me hear any of you reichnuts say you love America when f-cking over her citizens for your greed.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:11 pmThe “there are no uninsured Americans, they can use the ER” line is specifically a Gooper talking point. Months ago I was fed this load of shit by a Republican in Washington.
I informed him that the poor user of an ER receives a hefty bill upon his or her discharge, which he or she is expected to pay — in increments if necessary.
The pantload looked at me as if I was crazy. He didn’t believe a word of my riposte.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:13 pmThere Are No Uninsured Americans –
Wow, who could have known…I guess they don’t consider the poor uninsured.
Do these idiots understand the concept of “Preventive” Medicine?
Didn’t think so…
….why are repukes so ignorant on all issues?
August 28th, 2008 at 12:13 pm18,000 Americans per year die from lack of access to healthcare according to the last study I saw. This man is a shill without a shred of decency. Somone nice little old lady ought to slap him silly.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:14 pmERs are not usually the source of preventive medicine. Care in an emergency has nothing whatsoever to do with Health Care, much less insurance.
If this is the caliber of McCain’s campaign advisors…sigh.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:15 pmWow! This is brilliant! We can extrapolate Mr. Goodman’s plan to other areas as well.
We can WIPE OUT global poverty by simply moving the $1-day absolute poverty line to $.005. If you’ve got half a cent in your pocket, you’re no longer poor.
If we relabel people who’ve lost their homes to foreclosure as “ambiguously homeful” instead of “homeless,” we wipe out the homeless problem in America.
Heck, we can even bring back those 4,100 troops killed in Iraq by classifying them as “potentially reanimated.” There’s always a chance that they’ll somehow be zombified and come back from the dead.
Voila! Problem solved!
August 28th, 2008 at 12:15 pmMy understanding might be seriously skewed, but I’ve always been led to believe that preventive care is must less expensive than ignoring a medical problem and waiting until the s*it hits the fan before doing anything about it.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:15 pmthat is awesome! america is fully insured then…
got the sniffles? hit the emergency room for free health care…
got a heart attack? bleeding to death? lovely! you’re covered… if it’s first come first served, just hope you dont get behind anyone who has a scraped knee if you are having chest pains…
can we take these people (R’s) out back and beat them yet?
August 28th, 2008 at 12:16 pmTakes a genius to invent a HSA when people are already depleting the savings they have, their life savings, to cover skyrocketing costs. These people expect you to funnel money into an HSA in addition to covering insane monthly premiums. This is on top of all other creeping costs your average American is expected to cover.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:16 pmFan of Man Says:
can we take these people (R’s) out back and beat them yet?
August 28th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
______
Why not? We know they’re “effectively insured,” right?
August 28th, 2008 at 12:18 pmHospital emergency rooms by law cannot turn away a patient in need of immediate care.
While technically true, they can and do ask for a credit card or cash during the initial interview. If the patient has neither (sorry, no checks allowed!) the patient and/or family are told the cost of each and every service along the way, and reminded repeatedly that they must pay. The patient is encouraged to turn down necessary diagostic services and treatment, and then sign a form acknowledging that they voluntarily turned down care.
And they can deny hospital admission from the ER, instead referring the patient to a state or county hospital.
PEACE
August 28th, 2008 at 12:18 pmThat silly comb-over isn’t fooling anyone either, “Dr.” John.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:18 pmConservatives will trot out how long people wait in the countries that have National Healthcare or how high the countries’s tax is to support the healthcare. Why can’t healthcare tax be included in sales tax, that way everyone that buys will be paying into healthcare no matter income.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:19 pmRemember the healthcare plan that was based on cigarette tax and the tabbaco industry went crazy ? NIMBY again.
How socialistic of the good Dr. Goodman. The GOP’s version of universal healthcare is now! This is the same mentality in not considering people who have managed to live longer than their unemployment benefits as actually being unemployed. Since they no longer collect a benefit check, they must not still be unemployed, riiiggghhhhttt?
August 28th, 2008 at 12:19 pmAsk anyone visiting the ER lately how they are treated until insurance cards are shown. We took a man having a stroke and he was made to wait until we filled out his paperwork at an ER. Must be that compassionate conservatism at work.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:21 pmEmergency care is not primary care. Nor is it the place to get care for chronic conditions, faced by tens of millions of Americans.
Goodman just recommended the U.S. buy $400 hammers. Putz!
Guess wny nonprofit community hospitals are struggling? Nonpaying patients delaying care, finally showing up in an ER and admitted for days to weeks of care.
What Mr. Goodman isn’t saying. We want those community hospitals to struggle. That way they’ll sell out to our for-profit friends on the cheap. Recall the family farm, now owned by Cargile or ADM? Stay tuned, a donneybrook is coming.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:21 pmWho’s this guy a lobbyist for? The HMO’s? You can’t be an advisor to McCain without being a lobbyist.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:22 pmEquating care received in an emergency room with that provided in a health provider’s office epitomizes the attitude of people who fundamentally don’t give a shit.
Arguing with this yahoo about what constitutes good medical care is like arguing race with a Klansman, or evolution with a Baptist. Reason does not work.
This country needs single payor health insurance, and the Blues and their need to be out of business.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:22 pmwhirlaway Says:
“After all, you just go to an emergency room.”
In other words, you wait until the appendix bursts?
Or until the high blood pressure results in kidney
failure? Or until the stone in the salivary duct
turns into a toxic abscess?
Yea, and when you die, whatever…it’s just one less person in the bread line.
My goodness, Republicans are destroying this country.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:22 pmFor any libs unfamiliar with the rules of rounding, 47.5 million is rounded to 0.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:22 pmJohn Goodman should give up his health insurance and become uninsured. Likewise, John McCain should decline Social Security.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:23 pmEugeneDebs Says:
——————————————————————————–
18,000 Americans per year die from lack of access to healthcare according to the last study I saw. This man is a shill without a shred of decency. Somone nice little old lady ought to slap him silly.
I’d rec ya 10 times for that last line alone if I could :)
August 28th, 2008 at 12:23 pmTexas Lady: “Why can’t healthcare tax be included in sales tax, that way everyone that buys will be paying into healthcare no matter income.”
The problem I have with sales taxes in general is that they are regressive, not flat. Sales taxes have a much more profound effect on working people and poor people than any other form of tax. No, I think Obama has the right idea people making over $600K a year need to kick in some more and people making over $2.8 million a year need to kick in a lot more.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:24 pmS1 Says
August 28th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Can we sentence him to live the remainder of his life without health insurance and other means to pay for health care?
____________________________________________________________
Oh, absolutely. After all, he can always go to an emergency room if he needs care. Of course, they won’t treat him unless it IS an emergency, and only the emergency will be treated.
They will bill him for services rendered (which will be more than a lifetime of regular check-ups and medication that would have kept him healthy in the first place), which he will be unable to pay. Then he will be forced to declare bankruptcy.
This leaves the hospital unpaid, so they have to raise their rates for everybody else to make up the difference. And when the insurance companies find themselves having to pay out more in claims, they raise premiums for everyone.
Such a great system we have. I just wonder if Goodman was on the end of it that so many millions of Americans are, if he would develop any new insight? Nah — a thick head is hard to penetrate.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:24 pmdarkness Says:
Arguing with this yahoo about what constitutes good medical care is like arguing race with a Klansman, or evolution with a Baptist. Reason does not work.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
______
More specifically, it’s nuance that doesn’t work. It all goes back to my theory on the conservative mindset – policy by oversimplification. If you can solve a complex problem by reducing it to a simple accounting trick, it doesn’t matter how many people suffer in real life. The problem is solved on paper, and that’s all that matters. This is the underlying philosophy under the black-and-white/good-and-evil politics that have run this country for 7.5 years.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:26 pm.
Sure I can go to an emergency room…
… Then they bill me and then they send the bill to collections then my credit goes to hel| and then I can’t get a school loan or home loan or car loan. But yea, I could go to an emergency room and risk my future.
.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:28 pmAs for HSA’s, past studies showed:
· 51% of people with HSA’s make $75,000 or more vs. 18% of the general population
August 28th, 2008 at 12:30 pm· Average age of HSA funders was 9 years higher than the general population according to IRS data
· 55% of HSA eligible plan enrollees contribute to their health savings account while 45% do not.
· Many participants were unsure about what medical expenses qualified for payment under their HSA
· Few researched the cost of hospital or physician services before obtaining care
· Participants said they would recommend HSA’s to healthy consumers, but not to people who use maintenance medication, have a chronic condition, have children, or may not have the funds to meet a high deductible.
.
Clueless + Denial = John (not so)Goodman
.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:31 pmThis guy is the President of the Natiaonal Center for Policy Anaysis:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=National_Center_for_Policy_Analysis
It’s self-professed goal is “communications and research foundation dedicated to providing free market solutions to today’s public policy problems … [and] prides itself on aggressively marketing its products for maximum impact by ‘targeting key political leaders and special interest groups, establishing on-going ties with members of the print and electronic media, and testifying before Congress, federal agencies, state lawmakers, and national organizations.’”
Sure sounds like lobbying to me.
The Center is funded by the Scaife and Olin Foundations, and ExxonMobil. Wonderful.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:32 pmThis guy is right, there are no uninsured Americans. That’s because the people who vote Republican are so stupid they believe this guy when he says it. They have got to be the dumbest people on the planet. If a Republican says the sky is red, they’d believe it. I’ve dicovered that half the people in this country are complete idiots. They all belong to the Republican party too. What moron would drive around in a rusty pick up truck with no health care. work a low wage job,be anti union, live in a trailer park, fly a rebel flag and still think things are great?
August 28th, 2008 at 12:36 pmAny Hillary supporters and Independents may vote for McPOW?? Huh??
August 28th, 2008 at 12:36 pmTo expose the shill even more. Bush promotes people with high deductible health plans as having HSA’s. Only one quarter actually do! HR Executive Online states:
About 3.2 million Americans were enrolled in HDHPs but only about 820,000 of them, or 26 percent, had opened and funded an HSA, according to Inside Consumer Directed Care, a newsletter published by Washington-based Atlantic Information Services
August 28th, 2008 at 12:36 pmInstead, the bureau should categorize people according to the likely source of payment should they need care. “So, there you have it. Voila! Problem solved.”
Categorize catsup as a vegetable, and viola! School lunch programs are in compliance with federal regulations. Problem solved.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:37 pmMcCain seems to have an excellent talent in finding these lying ‘architects’ in all areas and fields to advise him.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:39 pmGod damn it and the iradiation of our food is only going make things worse.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:39 pmLet’s not forget I just spent $10,000 on the Dentist. (lucky to get a loan!)
August 28th, 2008 at 12:40 pmA lobbyist to a journalist “To you he is called McCain, to us lobbyists..we call him McGain”
August 28th, 2008 at 12:42 pmThis is so flippin’ absurd that I have no idea where to being (but I will try).
Instead, the bureau should categorize people according to the likely source of payment should they need care.
Class discrimination. Nice. Yeah, no problems will result from that. We’ve already have unattended-to patients dying in ERs. Gee, I wonder what the wait time will be for the huge influx of “least likely not to pay” patients will be?
And an emergency room visit won’t pay for your prescriptions.
Or your follow up.
Or your rehab.
Listen up, you mucking foron! I deal with the “worthless statistic” of the uninsured every single friggin’ day. And in the mental health community, psychotropic drugs are NOT cheap.
So we have possible harmful patients NOT taking there medicine, which thus defeats the purpose of anti-psychotics, and potentially could be dangerous(oh, and by the way, do you really want a patient suffering from a severe psychotic episode making a visit to an Emergency Room?).
It absolutely amazes me how some elites are so out of touch, and yet pretend to know what’s best for society.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:43 pmWhen I went to the only bank that offers a HSA in my town, there were three people sitting around in a tiny office with their coats on because they had not turned on the heat. I left with my little bit of hard saved money. I suspect that HSAs are more for the benefit of banks than they are for the benefit of citizens.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:45 pmMr. Goodman, who helped craft Sen. John McCain’s health care policy, said anyone with access to an emergency room effectively has insurance, albeit the government, which, acts as the payer of last resort. (Hospital emergency rooms by law cannot turn away a patient in need of immediate care.)
The denial of these clowns is beyond belief. Statements like this one demonstrate beyond doubt that Republicans aren’t at all interested in representing the American people. It’s one thing to forward the BS that privately funded healthcare is better, and quite another to say that what we have now is actually working, which, essentially, is what Goodman is saying.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
August 28th, 2008 at 12:45 pmSorry for the above typos, spelling errors, and all around butchering of the English language at my post #56.
Trying to post while eating a burrito, and having your blood pressure rise over some idiot’s thoughts on “uninsured”, does not a good combination make!
August 28th, 2008 at 12:48 pmEspecially when typing.
John Goodman: There are no uninsured Americans
Ronald Reagan: There are no homeless in America. Also Trees cause pollution.
Anyone see a pattern here with the Republican mindset?
August 28th, 2008 at 12:48 pmMcCain Platform:
August 28th, 2008 at 12:48 pmHealthcare: Go the ER
Economy: Quit whining
Foreign Policy: Bomber Diplomacy
Education: Child not doing well at school? Here, take this voucher and go somewhere else.
Energy Crisis: Drill and give more tax breaks to energy companies.
Could this guy’s take pleeeeeeeeeze be featured in the next Obama ad?
August 28th, 2008 at 12:49 pmWow. It doesn’t even take a POW to solve our greatest issues.
I wonder what the family with a good name is supposed to do? The government surely isn’t paying everyones emergency room bill.
I like the consistency. Doublethink at work again.
With this sort of periphery, the mental recession argument almost works!
August 28th, 2008 at 12:49 pm#10 Spencer’s Mom
Well said. My personal favorite is that Federal law requires that a provider BILL everyone the same amount for services regardless of their insurance. However all the insurers side step this by making the docs/facs write off the amount in excess of their contracted rate.
W
August 28th, 2008 at 12:51 pmT
F?
Hey all! Way OT, but is it possible that TP started banning by IP address last night?
There has not been one troll on any thread yet today.
And it can’t be because they’ve seen the light…
PEACE
August 28th, 2008 at 12:52 pmI’d like to see this fool tell this to an ER doctor.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:53 pmI waited 23 hours in the ER. And that was with two insurances at the time.
Step in and ER in Florida and we’ll have a discussion.
tony and lido
The health industry is about harvesting the life savings of our sick and old citizens. Disgusting pigs of the insurance industry and the drug & “health care” companies pick the carcasses clean of all meat before any mercy. Now the banks want their share via the HSA.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:53 pmany ER in Florida.Sorry, i got a migraine.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:54 pmClose. HSAs are for the benefit of the carriers. An HSA eligible plan has a high annual deductible. These plans are usually referred to in the industry as CDHP (Consumer driven health plans…lol) because the theory goes that the more money you have to front load for your care, the wiser decisions you will make.
In practice, the insurer is underwriting a lot less risk. If you’re responsible for paying for the first $1500 a year for your medical care, they can afford to reduce your premium quite a bit.
I don’t know much about the banking end, but I imagine funds in HSA accounts count toward a bank’s reserves which allows them to write more sub-prime loans? (speculation on my part.)
August 28th, 2008 at 12:58 pmHow is that insurance? You get billed up the ass for it, for one.
People can’t just miss work on a monthly basis or whatever else to go wait in line for literally 6 hours so they can get some antibiotics or some insulin.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:58 pmThe denial of these clowns is beyond belief. Statements like this one demonstrate beyond doubt that Republicans aren’t at all interested in representing the American people.
First off, it’s not ‘denial.’ They really do not give a rabid rat’s ass about it. They make their bucks. All else pales in comparison with that. The fewer poor people–all of whom they believe they now are forced illegitimately to subsidize–the better. If it takes longer for ‘em to get care, mebbe they’ll die before, and save the county the money for saving their worthless asses. They don’t make money in the insurance bidness by making pay-outs.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:58 pmThis is crap. I went to the ER recently after a fall left me with a swollen and excruciatingly painful hand. It was the weekend and my doctor’s office was closed. I have insurance, but I still had to pay a $75 co-pay but it was worth it to me because I didn’t know if my hand was broken and whether I was doing more damage to it.
One of my conservative friends berated me for going to the ER. My hand wasn’t broken, so he felt I should have just waited until Monday to go to my GP (if she even could fit me in.)
The idea that everyone can just go to the ER for medical care is ridiculous. If everyone without insurance went to ERs for regular medical care, every conservative in this country would be screaming that they shouldn’t go to the ER for non-emergencies.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:59 pmDRxJ,
Reichnuts want us to believe there’s a big difference between class warfare and class discrimination. Complaining about one while practicing the other.
The message from your post speaks louder than any petty grammatical errors. It would be a mistake to notice any of those in light of your message.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:00 pmWanna solve the Health Care Crisis?
The Dee Plan
1-Offer every American a HSA eligible health insurance plan with an annual deductible of $2000
2-pay doctors at 100% UCR (Usual and Customary Rate)
3- Relagate Medicaid/Medicare/private insurance to covering the deductible
4- watch the savings rate of american citizens skyrocket as everyone begins to make pre-tax contributions to their HSAs
5- marvel at how competitive we become in the manufacturing industry once the burden of health care is removed.
6- see your paychecks get fatter as better company’s no longer have the health benefits carrot to compensate their employees with
August 28th, 2008 at 1:04 pmSorry Dee, you got a couple of facts wrong.
#4-only 26% of people with HDHP have any of those pretax savings in an HSA. That’s not everyone. (soure HR Executive)
#6-see corporate executive compensative balloon without that pesky health insurance benefit. Little to none of the savings will be passed on to “employees”.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:10 pmHow about Str8 Actions for Str8 Talk?
I dare John McCain and all Republicans to immediately back up their anti-government, welfare hating, real Americans make it on their own political philosophy with some action.
If you don’t believe in social security as it exists today, then leave the program. You’ll still be taxed, but you’ll have the satisfaction of never accepting a check from the government. You’ll spare yourself the humiliation.
If you don’t believe in government sponsored health care, then forfeit your government provided health care and go out a secure private health insurance. You and your family will thank you for acting like a man.
If you think all government checks to the poor are only creating welfare queens, then all wealthy retired Republicans should immediately forfeit their government retirement checks. Even though you are entitled, if you’re sending your driver in a BMW to deposit your checks, is that really different than a welfare queen in a Cadillac?
If you don’t believe in any affirmative action college admissions, then please do not have your kids gain college admission as a legacy; have them do the right thing, earn their college admission by competing and beating the competition. That will teach them a life long lesson that they in turn will pass on.
Most of all, I want all Republicans to do all of these things. I want to see them get up on stage during their convention and describe each and every government hand out that they forfeited. I assume that this public cleansing of their Republican souls will be met with boisterous applause. Like a GOP-Recovery meeting, each proud Republican can get up their and admit his failings. “I was a government sucking maggot until I saw the light and decide to live out my beliefs in the free market. I gave up my government sponsored health care, my government retirement account, etc.” That’s what I want to hear. Live the dream guys. Live the Republican dream to its fullest!
August 28th, 2008 at 1:18 pmState:
Those were ‘predictions’, not ‘facts’.
Either way, not all HDHP plans are inherently HSA eligible. I might have been a wee bit hyperbolic with the term ‘everyone’, but if you don’t take advantage of an available HSA component, than you’re pretty much an idiot. Personal responsibility cannot be completely removed from the equation.
As for corporate compensation balooning, that just isn’t true for any reasonable actor. Benefits are part of your compensation package. If compensation does not evolve in a changing environment, you lose the power to retain employees. The piece of the pie that is reserved for Health Benefits would in most cases work its way back to the plebs pockets.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:19 pmOkay… who is the elitest candidate again??
August 28th, 2008 at 1:20 pmGoodman is submarining the statistic itself. How Rovian?
Any measurement has an operational definition, a method for calculation. It’s a sad day when people advising our political leaders are inept in basic management theory and practice.
Study Dr. Deming, the leaership guru behind the Japanese post war miracle President Bush loves to talk about.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:20 pmObviously this dumb idiot doesn’t understand that providing outpatient care in the ER is incredibly expensive and inefficient. But Republicans don’t understand economics in general, so I suppose it isn’t surprising after all.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:22 pmNor can you get chemotherapy at an emergency room.
And since when does ‘access to health care” transmogrify into ‘having insurance”? The two are nowhere near the same. Most people associate having insurance with having it paid for.
What borders on the criminal from the Republican’ts is the suggestion that emergency room treatment is somehow free. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Joe, Hillary, Bill–publicize this guy. Make him a feature of your speeches. (Barack, too, though these guys are better at it.) Put him along side Phill Gramm and his nation of Whiners. Show the nation just what they’re all about.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:22 pmWhen a repub speaks of the wonderful medical care we are getting I wonder if they are talking about the “drive by mastectomy” One and half days in the hospital home with tubes and drains. That is WITH insurance ! When I have heard of this from both coasts I was more than appalled. And we are not talking biopsy it was a modified radical mastectomy. We are already a 3rd world country even with insurance.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:29 pmOh and 1.85 million people with medical insurance last year still filed for bankruptcy because of medical bills. Great going republicans !
August 28th, 2008 at 1:30 pm“if you don’t take advantage of an available HSA component, than you’re pretty much an idiot”
Or you don’t have the disposable income.
“The piece of the pie that is reserved for Health Benefits would in most cases work its way back to the plebs pockets.”
And why would this happen? When production was moved to Mexico, then China, did companies pass on the savings to any domestic workers left? There’s no reason to believe companies won’t pocket the savings. Many did in the move from standard insurance to HDHP’s.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:32 pmAnyone wondered why people are seeking serious medical care in Europe and Asia ? Pretty sad when the richest, supposedly, country in the world citzens have to travel abroad for medical care, if they can afford too.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:35 pmDeebaser: “see your paychecks get fatter as better company’s no longer have the health benefits carrot to compensate their employees with”
I don’t know about that one. Employers already know what workers will work for. How do you know they simply won’t take the extra profit and pay their workers the same as before?
August 28th, 2008 at 1:46 pmWow! He just channeled Phil Gramm. There are no uninsured Americans, it’s just in your head, a psychological malaise. We are a nation of whiners…so we should just STFU…
August 28th, 2008 at 1:47 pmtexaslady Says:
Oh and 1.85 million people with medical insurance last year still filed for bankruptcy because of medical bills. Great going republicans !
That is because whatever the insurance companies decide not to cover you have to still pay for it. This happens even with “full coverage” insurance.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:48 pmMy dad had to file bankruptcy after my mom died after her fight with cancer, even though his insurance was supposedly “full coverage”. The hospital was trying to get him pay the amount the insurance was refusing to cover.
That’s where medicaid and/or personal responsibility come into play. It’s something for everyone in the political spectrum and relatively cheap to implement. What’s your plan?
Apples and oranges. Those are different employees. Any ‘efficiencies’ gained through outsourcing doesn’t increase the value of a domestic employee’s work. Think of compensation as a carrot that convinces you to actually show up every day. If your employer does not increase your wages in response to the elimination of a benefit, they risk that another will.
Some don’t when they reduce the schedule of benefits on their plans, but what you don’t see on the back end is that their costs increase by 8-15% every year at renewal. Most companies appear to ‘eat’ the cost, but in reality offset the difference with reductions in merit increases.
In any case, even if I take you at face value… So? What is your point and how does it detract the overall plan? Do you have a better one?
August 28th, 2008 at 1:48 pmYou are correct. Employers are very well aware of what workers will work for. If you take a holistic approach workers with insurance are working for (Salary+Health Benefits). If the health benefits are no longer useful, they need to adjust their compensation strategy accordingly. If they don’t they risk their best employees jumping ship to a more forward thinking company.
Health insurance represents too large a chunk of payroll for it to disappear without anything to fill the void.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:53 pmGoodman went on to say…
“Are there no Prisons? Are there no Workhouses? … and those who would rather die had better huury up about it and decrease the surplus population!”
It’s sad too, I used to love Goodman on ROSEANNE and THE BIG LEBOWSKI is one of my all time faves… such a shame.
August 28th, 2008 at 2:10 pmdeebaser Says:
Sorry HSAs are another giveaway to the Rich. A way for those who can already AFFORD healthcare to sock an extra few grand away a year pretax. How are those barely making ends meet going to scrape two thousand a year together to put away in a savings account? If you need a new kidney that is going to cost you about 60 to 70 grand. That is thirty years of savings even if you CAN afford to sock away a couple extra thousand a year in an HSA. No the answer is a National health care system like every other industrial country in the WORLD has.
August 28th, 2008 at 2:14 pmThese McIIIrd advisors, and the candidate itself are so far out of touch, they can’t even phone it in.
August 28th, 2008 at 2:20 pmEugene,
How are the people that are barely making ends meet doing now?
A few points:
1- HSAs arent like FSAs. They are not ‘use it or lose it’. So no one has to sock away $2000 a year. The deductible is a maximum annual out-of-pocket expense.
2- A new kidney would cost $2000, not 30 years worth of savings.
3- There are a lot of different National Healthcare systems in the world. Which one do you want to adopt? Personally I think we can do it better than anyone ever has.
4- HSAs are not a ‘giveaway to the rich’, they are a giveaway to the health insurance carriers with the fortunate republican side benefit of benefiting the young, affluent, and healthy. Most of the older ‘Rich’ wouldn’t touch an HSA with a ten foot pole.
August 28th, 2008 at 2:27 pmThere are a lot of different National Healthcare systems in the world. Which one do you want to adopt?
I hear good things about France…
August 28th, 2008 at 2:30 pmthese statements about health care alone (and i am totally serious) should automatically disqualify mccain for the presidency.
August 28th, 2008 at 2:34 pmMy plan? Cover everyone. Design the system to delvier care in the most cost effective, quality setting. We have a nonsystem currently.
Everyone pays based on ability, that include employers currently providing insurance for 59% of Americans.
Give everyone a medical home and access to needed tests and treatment. This requires systemic planning and coordination on a medical market level.
Playing with tax incentives like McCain’s seems like a waste of time. People are having a hard enough time saving now. Funding a home budget emergency fund, a HSA, and retirement (401K, 402B or IRA) seems a bit much.
Creating a hypercompetitive health care marketplace also seems like a waste. In my town the two hospitals compete for paying patients, but guess who gets the uninsured by a 3 to 1 rate? The local, nonprofit community hospital.
We have something like 5 MRI’s, when we need 1 or 2. Physicians compete with the hospitals for that good paying testing revenue.
The days of 15% annual returns on equity for private health care companies and health insurance firms should be over. But none of this will happen, given the CorporaCrat Blue Dogs, Union bosses and Repugnicants. The worker will pay more so America can compete in the global economy…
August 28th, 2008 at 2:52 pmFor that new kidney to cost $2,000, HDHP’s would have to charge only the deductible. Most have a 20% copay, in addition to the significant annual deductible.
And the annual bill for expensive immunosuppressant pharmaceuticals? How does that work it’s way through the HSA elephant?
August 28th, 2008 at 2:55 pmAnyone considering why is healthcare so costly ? I remember being able to afford health insurance on a wage slightly above minimum wage, in 1989 ! Gee could it be, the for profit hospitals, the drug companies spending more on advertisment than research ? Check how many commerials on EVERY program are drug commercials on diseases we haven’t heard of.
August 28th, 2008 at 2:55 pmThe worst is the hospitals have gotten worse instead of better, cutting nursing staff to the bare bone. Hospital care is scarey with people dying from infections caught in the hospital !
deebaser Says:
Eugene,
How are the people that are barely making ends meet doing now?
A few points:
1- HSAs arent like FSAs. They are not ‘use it or lose it’. So no one has to sock away $2000 a year. The deductible is a maximum annual out-of-pocket expense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So then you mean a savings account coupled with a high deductability insurance. That just extends the problem. How will those just barely scraping by both put the two grand in the bank and pay those deductables>
2- A new kidney would cost $2000, not 30 years worth of savings.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes WHEN coupled with the High Deductible Insurance but this thread is about the 40 million Americans with NO health insurance.
3- There are a lot of different National Healthcare systems in the world. Which one do you want to adopt? Personally I think we can do it better than anyone ever has.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We dont have to choose any of them. We can make our own based on what WE want it to be it CAN be better the TWO KEY THINGS is that NO ONE be left out and that healthcare becomes a RIGHT YOU HAVE not a COMMODITY YOU BUY.
4- HSAs are not a ‘giveaway to the rich’, they are a giveaway to the health insurance carriers with the fortunate republican side benefit of benefiting the young, affluent, and healthy. Most of the older ‘Rich’ wouldn’t touch an HSA with a ten foot pole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yeah it is it allows those with the resources this isnt a problem on their radar screen to sock away more pre tax money. The thing is that for decades business and wealth have tried to shift the burdens of society onto the individual sending the message that we are all alone that we each need to look only to ourselves. They want NO costs of being part of a society. That isnt even a society its a large group of people living in the same geographic area. To be a society we need to send the message that we are all in this TOGETHER, that even, no ESPECIALLY the most vulnerable will not be left behind. I eschew ANY solution to this problem that doesnt send THIS philosophical message.
August 28th, 2008 at 3:13 pmAs for the public’s ability to pick up more in the health care arena:
“Newly released data by the United States Census Bureau continues to show how much President George W. Bush has ravaged the American economic landscape. Since 2000, median income has decreased 1 percent. That decline is magnified by the higher costs for energy, food and other items during that period; what families could buy for a dollar in 2000 now costs $1.25.”
August 28th, 2008 at 3:13 pmtexaslady Says:
Anyone considering why is healthcare so costly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What you mention is part of it also the Insurance industry doesnt keep their money in the basement but in stocks they lost a LOT during the hi tech bubble burst and they needed to make it up. So premiums went up.
August 28th, 2008 at 3:15 pmLOL Buckie Boy. This is actually quite a nice metaphor:
> Do these idiots understand the concept of “Preventive” Medicine?
I think absolutely “no”. In fact I think it goes waaaay beyond medicine. Because they don’t want to spend money on domestic social programs, the only thing they can do is *react*. Being *proactive* is a lot more expensive.
Great point.
August 28th, 2008 at 3:20 pmState: You’re missing the point. My idea is to provide coverage for EVERY american in a way that will also help the economy. This is a theoretical. OT procedures and Rx cards are outliers. Its just an idea that would cost our government practically nothing, yet provide a much higher quality of life for all Americans.
No need to jump down my throat over it especially when your proposal is ‘Cover everyone. Design the system to delvier care in the most cost effective, quality setting.’ It’s easy to slag on other peoples solutions, quite another matter to come up with one yourself.
August 28th, 2008 at 3:28 pm“There need to be a 527 ad – say an ER doctor talking about how he sees people with heart attacks who could have been saved had they had access to health care and medication to treat their high blood pressure or how someone lost a leg due to untreated diabetes since an ER can only treat an immediate need and not the underlying problem.”
I’m an ER doc, and though I’d be happy to write the text, I’d rather not appear on camera.
I would point out that some pretty good, pretty comprehensive care is provided in the ER. Every day that I work there is at least one person who is there because they are frustrated with the inaction of their primary care doctor and want somebody to do something.
Sometimes they do need the tests done, sometimes not, but in the ER we are compelled to accommodate them because we are obliged by law to perform sufficient evaluation to determine whether an actual emergency exists or not.
We often practice defensive medicine because “the stupid ER” is who they are going to go after first in the event of a lawsuit. Also, many hospitals have a practice of redacting a portion – or sometimes all – of the bills of those who complain, regardless of whether the complaint has any legitimacy or not.
Between defensive medicine and drug seeking jackoffs (which in my experience have no relationship to one’s socioeconomic status), it’s an absolute mess. That being said, there’s no other kind of medicine I want to practice; every once in a while I get to be part of something truly amazing and it makes all of the crap in between tolerable.
August 28th, 2008 at 3:29 pm“I’ve dicovered that half the people in this country are complete idiots. They all belong to the Republican party too.”
Haha The Shadow you’ve inspired some lovely flamebait art!
http://nationofcriminals.com/files/politicaliq.png
Cheers,
–fletch
August 28th, 2008 at 3:54 pmHaving worked in the current non-system for over twenty years, I find it remarkable that everyone is not covered, that care is regularly delivered in higher cost settings than needed. Quality is now pay-for-performance which distorts behavior.
It means training more primary care doctors than specialists. Make sure everyone has a medical home. Community Health Centers have done much in providing a medical home for the uninsured, but they meet 20% of the need.
Treat hospitals like public utilities, not stockholder enrichment entitites. This is done in rural communities with Critical Access Hospital designations.
Pay health care professionals well enough to focus on patient care, not their pay for performance. My physician friends say this payment method will result in their restricting their practice to health people.
Imagine that, doctors treating healthy people while insurance companies insure only healthy people. All the sick and chronically ill are relegated to the margins.
Those are but a few of my clarifications. I wasn’t trying to run down your vision, but provide some information. It’s a huge challenge. I wish our country much luck and success with the tasks ahead.
August 28th, 2008 at 4:04 pmIf Obama were to get into the White House, you’d suddenly hear after the Republicans derail health care policy, about the 45 million uninsured and they would be shedding crocodile tears…
August 28th, 2008 at 4:07 pmWow, I can’t believe my posts been taken off. That’s a first!
August 28th, 2008 at 4:12 pmAnyhow, to put it nicely. I’ve been to the emergency room three time in CA. And All Three Times Been Denied Care. I’ve had to live with broken bones, fractured bones and torn ligaments, and have had to rehab myself.
Now to make sure I’m posted. I wouldn’t do anything to that nice man who says we all have free access to healthcare.
skeletonman Says:
I’m an ER doc, and though I’d be happy to write the text, I’d rather not appear on camera.
I would point out that some pretty good, pretty comprehensive care is provided in the ER. Every day that I work there is at least one person who is there because they are frustrated with the inaction of their primary care doctor and want somebody to do something.
August 28th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
_______
I wonder if ACEP or a similar group would be interested in putting out such a message. Their status may not allow them to make statements about a candidate, but they can certainly talk publically about issues that affect EDs like this.
August 28th, 2008 at 4:22 pm“It means training more primary care doctors than specialists. Make sure everyone has a medical home.”
Well said, Bubba (or -ette, as the case may be).
August 28th, 2008 at 4:25 pm“I wonder if ACEP or a similar group would be interested in putting out such a message. Their status may not allow them to make statements about a candidate, but they can certainly talk publically about issues that affect EDs like this.”
ACEP is highly so; some might argue that they are more of a political organization than they are professional association. That, however, is another argument for another day.
August 28th, 2008 at 4:27 pm“Wow, I can’t believe my posts been taken off. That’s a first!
Anyhow, to put it nicely. I’ve been to the emergency room three time in CA. And All Three Times Been Denied Care. I’ve had to live with broken bones, fractured bones and torn ligaments, and have had to rehab myself.
Now to make sure I’m posted. I wouldn’t do anything to that nice man who says we all have free access to healthcare.”
It’s against the law (the pertinent statute is the Emergency Medical and Active Labor Act usually referred to as EMTALA) to deny care for any reason to anyone presenting at an ER requesting evaluation of a perceived emergency condition (per the “prudent layman” standard).
EMTALA is one of the reasons that ER’s are so overcrowded – anyone who wants to be seen will be seen; the job of the ER doc is to prove or disprove a bona fide emergency.
August 28th, 2008 at 4:31 pmMy West Texas Bubba town has a shortage of primary care physicians, but not specialists. Our nonprofit ER gets lots of nonemergent primary care as a result.
In 2004 the average charge per visit in that local ER was $748. The average bill at the Community Health Center was $76. I realize these are a bit of an apple and orange comparison, but it points to providing care in the most cost effective setting.
August 28th, 2008 at 4:43 pmThe sad part is that there will be millions of people that will agree with his elitist Machiavellian views.
August 28th, 2008 at 5:20 pmand how many of those, 116, will be the very uninsured average Americans that decry socialism and communism?
August 28th, 2008 at 5:29 pmIf Barack Obama has any brains, he’s going to mention this tonight. Between that and the seven houses, McCain’s campaign is handling Obama the keys to the White House on a silver platter.
August 28th, 2008 at 5:35 pmLet them eat cake
August 28th, 2008 at 6:03 pmERs are not “health care” they are EMERGENCY treatment. Thus the “E” in “ER”. And I can guarantee you that, as a self-employed person, I am currently 100% without health insurance, so Mr. Goodman can kiss my uninsured a$$. Lightly though, I can’t afford treatment if he damages anything.
It’s amazing to think that these people – these “professional advisors” – can be so incredibly ill-informed (pun intended).
August 28th, 2008 at 6:21 pmI REALLY want to get some of what this guy is smokin’!!!!!!!!
August 28th, 2008 at 7:06 pmMr. Goodman is indeed a sick man and the drug he uses aren’t helping. How exactly does a dipshit ignoramus like him get such a fancy job?
August 28th, 2008 at 7:46 pmSure I can go to an emergency room…
… Then they bill me and then they send the bill to collections then my credit goes to hel| and then I can’t get a school loan or home loan or car loan. But yea, I could go to an emergency room and risk my future.
No offense, but if you can’t pay for a trip to the ER, you have no business buying a car or home. And I don’t call this “presonal responsibility” rather “common sense.”
August 28th, 2008 at 8:42 pmAMcG773 Says:
Sure I can go to an emergency room…
… Then they bill me and then they send the bill to collections then my credit goes to hel| and then I can’t get a school loan or home loan or car loan. But yea, I could go to an emergency room and risk my future.
No offense, but if you can’t pay for a trip to the ER, you have no business buying a car or home. And I don’t call this “presonal responsibility” rather “common sense.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Here is the rightwing in a nutshell both stupid and showing a complete lack of decency and empathy. So because at one point in time you cannot afford to pay for going to the Emergency room AND the medical procedures that means you need to SUFFER for the next seven years when you DO get a decent job. You got mugged and stabbed and your ER visit is in the THOUSANDS since you cant pay that you dont DESERVE a car or a home when you CAN afford them. Since you werent responsible enough to be born into a rich family or because your company laid you off and moved to Indonesia when you were stabbed TOUGH COOKIES. You are obviously SCUM and God is obviously punishing you for your moral depravity for not pulling yourself up by your bootstraps quick enough high enough and if you dont have feet you should have MADE them and gotten those boots anyway. Where does the rightwing dig people like you up? Do you even remember what it was like before your sould dried up and blew away or left in a huff saying it was SO out of there about the age of six when you tortured your first small animal to death?
August 28th, 2008 at 9:07 pmMarx once observed that events appear on the stage of history twice — first as tragedy and then as comedy. So JFK picked LBJ and now McCain picks Palin. What a perfect parallel politically, even with the sleeze.
August 29th, 2008 at 1:22 pmRe: 125
August 29th, 2008 at 1:31 pmI really screwed that one up. It should be: So Nixon picked Agnew and now McCain picks Palin. What a perfect parallel politically, even with the sleaze. Distracted by sore fingers and screen problems.
Here is the rightwing in a nutshell both stupid and showing a complete lack of decency and empathy. So because at one point in time you cannot afford to pay for going to the Emergency room AND the medical procedures that means you need to SUFFER for the next seven years when you DO get a decent job. You got mugged and stabbed and your ER visit is in the THOUSANDS since you cant pay that you dont DESERVE a car or a home when you CAN afford them. Since you werent responsible enough to be born into a rich family or because your company laid you off and moved to Indonesia when you were stabbed TOUGH COOKIES. You are obviously SCUM and God is obviously punishing you for your moral depravity for not pulling yourself up by your bootstraps quick enough high enough and if you dont have feet you should have MADE them and gotten those boots anyway. Where does the rightwing dig people like you up? Do you even remember what it was like before your sould dried up and blew away or left in a huff saying it was SO out of there about the age of six when you tortured your first small animal to death?
I’m no rightwinger. And your arguments are crap. I believe we need universal health care. But just like the people who borrowed more money than they should have to buy McMansions, there is a point where you have to decide what is the best choice for your own long term financial health.
If someone gets mugged, there is money available for victims of crime to pay for the ER. I’ve had friends who have had to go this route. There are also free clinics, and I’ve known lots of people who’ve gone there.
But if you can’t pay a hospital bill, how are you ever going to make a car or mortgage payment? That simply does not make sense. People “deserve” cars and houses when they can pay for them.
August 29th, 2008 at 3:34 pmWe pay for caviar but what we get is cat food.
-AF
September 20th, 2008 at 8:18 pmAndrew Sullivan Is A Fraud
Goodman’s original words were these:
“So I have a solution. And it will cost not one thin dime,” Mr. Goodman said. “The next president of the United States should sign an executive order requiring the Census Bureau to cease and desist from describing any American – even illegal aliens – as uninsured. Instead, the bureau should categorize people according to the likely source of payment should they need care. “So, there you have it. Voila! Problem solved.”
Let’s try his ‘joke’ in a classic format:
So an Englishman an Irishman and a Scotsman, all on expired visas, walk into an American bar, drink 8 pints each and then start to leave when the barman says “Hey! Who’s paying for the beers?”
The Irishman says “To be sure, not me lad; I spent all my money on the 8 pints I had two hours ago!”
The Scotsman says “Do ye ken nothing aboot Scotsmen laddie? We never spend a bawbee when there’s someone else around to pay”
So the barman looks at the Englishman for payment and the Englishman says:
“I’m sorry old chap, but according to an executive order requiring the Census Bureau to cease and desist from describing Americans and even illegal aliens such as ourselves as having insufficient funds to pay for goods or services rendered. As we are illegal aliens and as none of us can pay you and the executive order demands you cease and desist from even describing our inability to pay we don’t exist so you can’t possibly charge us for 24 pints of beer. So, there you have it. Voila! Problem solved.”
Not even a rim-shot can help this ‘joke’.
September 24th, 2008 at 11:06 amThis is another example that the “old world jounalism of Murrow, Cronkite and Rather is dead and buried. In the case of the Time Magazine reporter Ms Tumulty, she seems to think the finding out the who, what, where, when and how have been replaced with a steno pad, which she records what ABC said in rebuttle to the complaint of Congressman Kucinich. There is a great disconnect with what happened and the points made by ABC. She asks little of no questions to ABC. She takes what is handed to her and repeats it vebatim and then calls that reporting. I call is stenography. Lida Sohbet sohbet sesli chat Gelinlik Modelleri
January 11th, 2009 at 10:50 amIf you’re referring to Karl Schwarz’ articles, if they are true, how will we ever know unless the news media gets involved without bias? The military under orders not to speak out may never convey Karl Scharz’ expose’. Sesli Sohbet If Cheney was truly involved in 9/11 and protected in some way, then he’s being protected by what may be going on in the Caspian Sea area as well. That pre-9/11 August 10, 2000 article drives the point home to me that Cheney had a vested interest in the oil at the Caspian Sea area (before 9/11). Fx15 From all I’ve read in Schwarz’ articles, he claims the Taliban was working on a deal with Argentina with that pipeline in the Caspian Sea area and UNOCOL wanted the deal instead. Orjinal Lida It’s too much to get into here and I’m not able to convey in here what Schwarz has presented in his articles. Sikis Dig into Schwarz’ articles to learn more about the unnamed soldier’s experiences related to so-called Black Ops missions in the Caspian Sea area in Schwarz’ article. What Schwarz had to present in this article is an eye opener: kurtlar vadisi pusu izle
January 30th, 2009 at 2:31 pmThank you very much.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:53 pmsesli chat
sesli sohbet
sesli chat
sesli sohbet
I want suits in Colorado, New Jersey, and any other state where illegal suppression campaigns are being conducted. And some real looks at the polling methodology would also be eye opening.
mynet
February 4th, 2009 at 2:27 pmdizi izle
sohbet odalari
ttnet sohbet
thank you man
netlog
February 4th, 2009 at 2:55 pmbayan
sohbet
the bureau should categorize people according to the likely source of payment should they need care. “So, there you have it. Voila! Problem solved.
February 9th, 2009 at 3:28 pmI feel McCain would have been a better president due to his experience. I still want Obama to succeed but there is so much hype about the guy and he hasn’t even done anything yet. Hopefully he will follow through with his promises for healthcare! J.C.Lewis
February 24th, 2009 at 2:17 pmyo nunca habia visto a Eugenio Derbez haciendo el papel de malo pero esta pelicula esta muy bonita y si le cae ambos papeles pero lo disfruto mas cuando hace el papel de comedian
March 12th, 2009 at 8:09 amk?z oyunlar? | araba oyunlar? | flash oyun | oyun sitesi
Thank you very much.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:28 pmsesli chat
sesli sohbet
Thank you very much.
April 15th, 2009 at 12:29 pmsesli chat
sesli sohbet
SesliChat1
ArsivLik.Net
thank you
April 28th, 2009 at 9:47 am