Retired Generals Scold Bush Administration On Torture, Pentagon Spokesmen
Retired Generals Scold Bush Administration On Torture, Pentagon Spokesmen
Yesterday evening, ThinkProgress spoke with Lieut. Gen, Harry Soyster and Ret. Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, at a Human Rights First reception honoring retired generals who have spoken out against President Bush’s torture policies. Soyster criticized Bush’s veto of a bill banning the CIA from waterboarding — a veto Sen. John McCain supported. Soyster said one clear standard on torture was needed:
SOYSTER: Our position is, all of us, that we need one standard for the United Sates. And because the Central Intelligence Agency has authorized torture, then Americans are torturing. It doesn’t matter where your paycheck comes from.
Taguba reiterated Soyster’s critique of Bush’s torture policies, and also slammed the Pentagon’s military analyst program, which the New York Times revealed in April. He said he found it “incredible” that generals would agree to be the Pentagon’s spokesmen, and said military “experts” should do their own research:
TAGUBA: You can probably provide an expert opinion, but you always have to preface that by saying, ‘Nobody told me to say these things.’
TP: What if someone did tell you to say those things? Then you shouldn’t be saying them?
TAGUBA: You shouldn’t be saying them. We should take bold measures to provide our own perspective through your own research. That’s why they call you an expert. They don’t call you an expert because they fed you information. That means you’re just a talking head. You don’t want to be a talking head. Do your own research.
In fact, the participants in the Pentagon program were explicitly prohibited from following Taguba’s urging: to say explicitly whether they were repeating someone else’s facts. As the Times report revealed, “The access came with a condition. Participants were instructed not to quote their briefers directly or otherwise describe their contacts with the Pentagon.”
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Let these ‘military leaders on the ground’ tell Bush where it is at.
August 28th, 2008 at 9:07 pmI read the Taguba report, its quite disturbing in its portrait of Officers and NCO’s acting crazy. It did find good words for the Marines who acted as a base protection force.
August 28th, 2008 at 9:14 pmCan someone - ANYONE - please tell me why there is no public outrage about what these Pentagon Puppets did? Why has there been no MSM reporting of their traitorous behavior? Do we live in the USSR now?? When these people were sworn in didn’t they vow to protect the United States Of America? Instead, they decided to protect the dismal failings of this Administration by lying repeatedly and now that the truth has come out, we just shrug our collective shoulders and go “oh well…”??
As Dennis Kucinich would say: WAKE UP AMERICA!
As punishment, they should be brought before a Military Tribunal, tried publicly, dishonorably discharged and retirement funds withdrawn from everyone of them. In protecting the feeble-minded Bush/Cheney/McCains of our country, they have made us the laughing stock of the world and they should be made to pay mightily!
THEY LIED TO US - WAKE UP AMERICA!
August 28th, 2008 at 9:14 pmThey don’t call you an expert because they fed you information. That means you’re just a talking head.
No, that’s not quite correct. It doesn’t mean these men were “just talking heads” they were the spoon-fed propaganda mouthpieces of a fascist dictatorship.
And because the Central Intelligence Agency has authorized torture, then Americans are torturing. It doesn’t matter where your paycheck comes from.
Sorry, I won’t be painted with this broad brush. Just who authorized this torture? Who was responsible for the cover-up? They are criminals, and they cannot make us collaborators simply because we reside in the same country.
If a police officer in my town commits murder, am I also guilty of murder because my tax dollars pay his/her salary? No.
That McStain, a man who was tortured, has acquiesced on torture demonstrates lack of moral character.
But he was a POW, dontchaknow, so dont’ question his judgement.
Back to the speeches! I love me some Al Gore!
PEACE
August 28th, 2008 at 9:20 pmrobert verdi Says:
I read the Taguba report, its quite disturbing in its portrait of Officers and NCO’s acting crazy. It did find good words for the Marines who acted as a base protection force.
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The Taguba report was chilling and as an American embarassing. I didnt read the whole thing. My stomach couldnt take it. Bush should be tried for warcrimes including the ultimate war crime if the Nuremberg precedent were applied he would be hanged
August 28th, 2008 at 9:24 pmBe still my heart!
We should all find out the facts and then sit idly by while nothing is done and the criminal sect of the American government walks free.
August 28th, 2008 at 9:38 pmSpencer’s Mom:
Not sure if I am reading it correctly, but I read the following statement differently.
“And because the Central Intelligence Agency has authorized torture, then Americans are torturing. It doesn’t matter where your paycheck comes from.”
I took that to mean that the CIA are Americans and it is unacceptable for ANY American to torture - regardless of what agency signs your check.
Just my $0.02
August 28th, 2008 at 9:59 pmYou can’t get good, honest advice if you fire those who would speak truth to power!
August 28th, 2008 at 10:12 pmEugene,
August 28th, 2008 at 10:32 pmyou are wrong, but I have to say the part about the captain who took pictures of the ladies in his command only confirmed my view that people can so utterly crazy.
spencers mom,
August 28th, 2008 at 10:32 pmI believe he meant if one American group does it we are all responsible.
Eugene,
August 28th, 2008 at 10:42 pmBy the way, I was actualy in one of Saddam’s execution chambers a couple of years ago. You want to see evil and crimes, walk into a room that is haunted with the deaths of thousands. Walk into a room where you know people were kept knowing the only escape was a painfull death at the hands of Saddam’s police. In the back were tiny cells with holes at the end. I believe they were for shooting prisoners when the gallows were to slow. You see Eugene I know plenty about the Baghdad Correctional Facility, I served there only two years ago. I know the reality of how we treat Iraqi’s. I am not excusing the animals of Grainer and England, I was there after the system was cleaned up and the reality of the US detainee system is not in line with “gulag” view pushed by many. By the way, the BCF is also known as Abu Ghraib. On a side note, if you have any questions about spending a year in an Iraqi prison, ask away.
robert verdi Says:
——————————————————————————–
Eugene,
By the way, I was actualy in one of Saddam’s execution chambers a couple of years ago. You want to see evil and crimes, walk into a room that is haunted with the deaths of thousands. Walk into a room where you know people were kept knowing the only escape was a painfull death at the hands of Saddam’s police. In the back were tiny cells with holes at the end. I believe they were for shooting prisoners when the gallows were to slow. You see Eugene I know plenty about the Baghdad Correctional Facility, I served there only two years ago. I know the reality of how we treat Iraqi’s. I am not excusing the animals of Grainer and England, I was there after the system was cleaned up and the reality of the US detainee system is not in line with “gulag” view pushed by many. By the way, the BCF is also known as Abu Ghraib. On a side note, if you have any questions about spending a year in an Iraqi prison, ask away.
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No I am NOT wrong. I dont know why you want to tell me Saddam was a bad guy, I dont know anyone who disagrees. Of course he was at his WORST when he was our good ally. You rightwingers are latecomers on the Saddam is a monster bandwagon. Where were YOU in 83 and 88 when liberals like me were calling for us to stop supporting him and saying he should be tried for crimes against humanity? Of course your argument would be a bit stronger had we closed the torture rooms down instead of putting them under new management. When you read the Taguba report did you MISS the parts about prisoners being sodomized with chemical lights one of the men beaten to death? Electric shocks to genitals did you MISS those parts? NO I am not wrong and there are also the men beaten to death at Bagram Air Force base. Or sent to other countries to BE tortured no it isnt ME thats wrong. BEFORE this war started I was arguing with rightwingers about WMDS and what would happen in Iraq and every single prediction I made was 100% right. You righwingers were WRONG about everything so you can STUFF your condescending suggesting that I NEED to ask you about Iraq. I know my foriegn policy and I am sick to death of the people who were wrong about every single thing about Iraq telling us who were RIGHT that WE are the ones that dont understand. No I am NOT wrong. YOU dont know what you are talking about.
August 28th, 2008 at 10:50 pmMr Green I am also NOT wrong about the Nuremberg standards. According to the Nurember tribunal starting a war of aggression is the UlTIMATE war crime THAT is what we hung most of the Germans for. We also held accountable the politicians for what was done by the soldiers in WW2. According to international law there are only 2 reasons for an invasion that are NOT a war of aggression. Imminent self defense which NO ONE could take seriously and a UN resolution authorizing the invasion which we obviously never got since the UN OPPOSED the invasion and please to try to tell me about resolution 1441 that weak talking point is ludicrous. THAT resolution said DIRECTLY that the Security counsel would “remain seized of the issue” that is THEY would make any decisions about the serious consequences and made it CLEAR to the Bush administration when it was written that they would NOT cede that to the US. So YES if the Nurember standards were applied Bush WOULD be hanged. I am NOT wrong.
August 28th, 2008 at 10:57 pmEugeneDebs,
August 28th, 2008 at 11:02 pmLet’s sort this out. If Saddam kills and tortures individuals it is wrong,if the US pursues the same practices, it is OK. Am I missing something here?
WaltTheMan Says:
EugeneDebs,
Let’s sort this out. If Saddam kills and tortures individuals it is wrong,if the US pursues the same practices, it is OK. Am I missing something here?
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That seemed inherent in his telling me I was wrong but I didnt see him make that claim. He might have meant I was wrong about the Nurember standard and just not addressing the torture. If that is what he things shame on him.
August 28th, 2008 at 11:05 pm<EugeneDebs wrote:
“…THAT resolution said DIRECTLY that the Security counsel would “remain seized of the issue” that is THEY would make any decisions about the serious consequences and made it CLEAR to the Bush administration when it was written that they would NOT cede that to the US.”
I will never forget the day. It was my birthday, March 7, 2003. It was called a ‘press conference’, but it was a joke, like every one of them before and since, under the term of George W. Bush.
The last (or next-to-last) question was something like this: Mr. President, will you go to the UN for a Security Council vote to approve your imminent invasion of Iraq? And his answer shocked the talking heads afterwards: “Yes, we will go back to the UN.”
Everyone knew that China and the USSR, much less France, would NEVER authorize his invasion. Everyone knew, as soon as he’d said it, that he was either lying, or didn’t understand the question–always a possibility with Bush. Everyone knew it was a waste of time, except, apparently, George.
He never went back for that Security Council vote. He invaded without UN approval. People call this an illegal war for very good reasons.
I say we hang him.
August 29th, 2008 at 1:19 amrobert verdi wrote:
“…You want to see evil and crimes, walk into a room that is haunted with the deaths of thousands.”
I hope you aren’t using this as a reason to justify the invasion of Iraq…?
If you are…then when do we invade Zimbabwe? When do we invade Saudi Arabia? When do we invade the Sudan? Why did George W. Bush send a grand total of twenty Marines to ‘help’ with the overthrow of Charles Taylor? When do we invade China? When do we invade North Korea, who once again made a complete fool of George W. Bush–one of the easiest accomplishments possible, granted–by re-starting their nuclear program the other day? When do we invade Nigeria? Egypt, where we send terror suspects to be tortured in THEIR Abu Ghraibs? Syria? Iran?
When do we ‘finish the job’ in Afghanistan? Will it take as long as it did the British or the Russians? Who never finished ‘conquering’ Afghanistan? Because there simply wasn’t anything there worth controlling except illegal poppy fields?
Don’t ever use Saddam as a justification for invading Iraq. Especially when the U.S. has such a terrible record of how it treats ITS people, particularly the Native American. Use that argument, and you got nothin’, kid. They invaded for the OIL, not to ’save’ Iraq’s people. If you don’t know that by now, let me save you some trouble and let you know that they’ve already admitted it.
August 29th, 2008 at 1:26 am.
Q U E S T I O N:
WHEN IS TORTURE NOT A WAR CRIME?
.
August 29th, 2008 at 1:58 am.
The 110th Congress is showing Americans that one can become the President of the U.S.A. and commit crimes of war.
The 110th Congress is showing Americans that one can become the President of the U.S.A. and flaunt Justice!
The 110th Congress is showing Americans that one can become the President of the U.S.A. and NOT be held accountable!
CHANGE REQUIRES COURAGE!
VOTE OUT MEMBERS OF THE CRIME ABETTING 110th CONgress!
.
August 29th, 2008 at 2:02 amBush/Cheney have no shame. WAR CRIMINALS
August 29th, 2008 at 4:16 amDaddy-O,
August 29th, 2008 at 7:19 amYour wrong, In the real world America does not the have ability to invade every country on the planet, so we invaded the one run by a genocidal tyrant. We pick and choose our allies and sometimes our enemies, you got that buddy. Your worldview is not sustainable, to say who are we to judge is a recipe for disaster as there are plenty of other countries and intrests out there quite willing to fill the power vacum left by a paralyzed America. The fact that Saddam was a genocidal tyrant, is what helped justify the invasion. As for the oil. It was the oil that gave Saddam the ability to cause so much damage, so yes it did play a part. The fact is that the Taliban are enemy of modernity, and should be treated as such. By the way an elected government for Iraq now sits in Baghdad, of course its still developing its sea legs, but it will get there giving the people of Iraq a chance for the future, unlike the peace of the mass grave Saddam inflicted on his country. I have no illusions about brutality or a utopian view of Democracy, but I know Iraq is a hell of lot better then being the the fiefdom of Hussein and company.
Hey, Mr. Verdi, watcha smoking?
August 29th, 2008 at 8:50 amFirst off, you’re wrong: In 2002, there were plenty of countries being run by genocidal tyrants: Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast, Sudan, North Korea, Burma, etc. etc. The U.S. didn’t invade Iraq to “save the Iraqis.” Iraq was the only country sitting “on a sea of oil”, as one of Bush’s toadies said. Remember the WMDs that were going to kill everybody on the East Coast? The “mushroom clouds”? Bush saying we were going to get Saddam because “he tried to kill my dad”? How about Bushco’s trying to tie Saddam and Al Qaeda together? Then we were going to invade Iraq to bring them “democracy.” All those reasons for invading–all BS.
Saving the Iraqis? Bush’s war has killed more Iraqis than Saddam did. The ones who aren’t dead have been forced out of their homes by ethnic cleansing, forced into exile where their daughters are forced into prostitution to keep their families fed, orphaned, terribly wounded and forced to live in a country where medical care is far worse than before the U.S. invaded. Electricity? Almost gone. Clean water? Almost gone. Schools and universities? Almost gone. Crime? Through the roof. If we freed the Iraqis, why do most of them despise us? Why do they want us out of their country as soon as possible? Why has Bushco build thost enormous bases in the country if we’re only going to be there until the Iraqi government can take over?
As for the Taliban being “enemies of modernity”, well, so are Republicans. Republicans think Darwin was wrong, they (you) believe that believe that government shouldn’t help people in need (health care, loan-sharking lenders, Katrina), they don’t believe in protecting the environment, they believe that schools should teach the Bible, not science. They believe that college should be only for the rich. They think pollution is great.
The Taliban, on the other hand, live in a country that was supposed to have a big oil pipeline running through it. Until the Taliban said no. A few months later, Bushco invaded. Not a coincidence. Seriously, how do you Repugs convince yourselves of such obvious nonsense?
robert verdi Says:
Mr. green, you are wrong. There is no justification for invading iraq. No drum beating by you will change anyone here’s mind. It was an illegal invasion and there is no justification for it.
We at bush’s behest went it alone and that is something that has hurt us much more than it helped the iraqi’s that survived our brutal invasion of a helpless nation. Sad and sick is what comes to mind…..that applies to you too.
August 29th, 2008 at 9:05 amSomething which you obviously have no grasp of since you think aggression and war is the solution to every problem.
You represent the bullies on the schoolyard mentality who are always failures in life, in the real world.
August 29th, 2008 at 9:08 amrobert verdi Says:
The fact that Saddam was a genocidal tyrant, is what helped justify the invasion.
August 29th, 2008 at 7:19 am
_________
By this logic, I can only assume that you’re also willing to occupy Sudan, the DRC, Israel, Zimbabwe, China, Uzbekistan, and every other country led by genociders and tyrants.
August 29th, 2008 at 9:39 amToasterhead, Fred and No one,
August 29th, 2008 at 7:26 pmIf we had the power we could get rid of the tyrants you mentioned. The USA is not the all power you think. Your argument that we do not rid of all tyrants so who are we to get rid of any tyrant is not sustainable.
Fred,
August 29th, 2008 at 7:28 pmAgression does not always work, its only needed against the likes of Che, Saddam, Adolph, Stalin, and Jefferson Davis. Do you believe the Confederacy could have been negotiated with? I suspect you will not respond.
nonone,
August 29th, 2008 at 7:40 pmJust because Michale Moore says things, doesn’t make them true. The Taliban were feudal thugs who twisted Islam for their own enrichment, they provided a safe harbor for Al Qaeda on the gamble that Bin Laden could provide more then the risk of hurting the USA. They lost that. As for Iraq, no, Saddam killed far more then the current Iraq war, we just saw less of the killing since it was a tyranny. Iraq is on the cusp of being the only Arab state that doesn’t drop nerve gas on its own people and is almost a reflection of its demography. On a side note, the oil wealth is, (that which is not being stolen) is being transfered to the populace by increased government wages. A very progressive development, wouldn’t you agree?
Fred,
August 29th, 2008 at 7:44 pmSchool bullies often lose in the long run. Your comment is foolish, a treaty is the way to go, if the other side might actualy keep it.
No One,
August 29th, 2008 at 7:45 pmCollege only for the rich? What planet do you line on?