Your hero died shortly after being admitted to a santitarium?
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This will be hard to explain to someone as clearly ignorant as you. I am a lefty we dont DO hero worship we dont follow the cult of the personality. That is left for simpleminded deluded fools like you wingnuts. Eugene Debs went to prison for six years for giving an anti war speech his health never recovered. He went to a sanitorium started by a nutritionist to die it was a natural health center. What we would call today holistic medicine. Does that have any relevance to anything? You really are VERY stupid.

OK it is clear now you are nothing but an ignorant warmonger that think John Wayne movies should be the basis for our foriegn policy. Because a terrorist IN Afghanistan committed a terrorist act killing a dozen or so Americans we should have INVADED that country killing a minimum of TENS OF THOUSANDS of innocent Afghanis who were already victims of the Taliban and Al Queda. Clearly you have no decency. Clearly no blood but American blood means anything to you. You are a disgusting warmonger. It would be the equivelent of shooting someone and killing them because they punched you. You are sick and need the help of a mental health professional immediatly. Your vicious disregard for the lives of innocents makes me sick. You dont believe in proportional a proportional response. Once any terrorist anywhere attacks us we go to whatever country they are living in and kill them all and let God sort them out. You are certainly disgusting you need to increaser your medication

Lenin, the first Communist dictator after the takeover of Russia in 1917, is widely credited with the following quotation, “The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves.”
__
Doesn’t mean that it is though. No planes? Are you out of your mind?

You are too stupid to have a discussion with. Your inability to perform the simplest higher brain function makes you worthless to attemp to explain anything to. Basically you are a moron. I cant dumb this down to a level you can apparantly understand. Your ignorance is a brick wall and a brick wall apparantly has better reading comprehendion I will give it one more try. I suggest you go find a six year old to explain this simple concepts to you.

“…you asked how many terrorist training camps Clinton destroyed before 2001 EXCEPT THE ONES HE DESTROYED IN 1998 that was AFTER the bombings you keep talking about THAT was the first time he had a reason to.”

You actually think that the ones Clinton destroyed in 1998 we all of the al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan? Also bombing training camps wasn’t all, not even close BTW, that was needed to shut down al Qaeda in Afghanistan. What was done after 9/11, i.e. invade Afghanistan, was what was necessary which is why Clinton should have done it after the 1998 U.S. Embassy bombings. Do you get it now?
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Why do you keep changing your arguments? 1998 was the first time we had a REASON to attack Al Queda in Afghanistan so before THAT you would be arguing we should attack them BEFORE they do anything. NOW you want to stupidly argue that it didnt do anything because it didnt get every single training camp which I assume is true. Short of an invasion we werent going to get every bit of Al Queda but it DID extract a huge cost to them and killed a bunch of them. We all know bloodthirsty warmongers like want to invade and kill tens of thousands of people everytime YOU get pissed. You couldnt care less about any life but an American life because besides being very stupid you have no decency and you learned everything you know about foriegn policy by watching John Wayne movies. However modern wars bring a horrific cost to the nations invaded and to INNOCENT PEOLE IN THOSE COUNTRIES. That is to do so would have, as it did, killed thousands of innocents, people who were already victims of Al Queda and the Taliban. I get that you dont care. They are only brown people over there so you dont CARE how many of their children die. Fortunatly decent people DID care.

“After 9/11 it was justified after the bombing of the Khobar towers it wasnt. It would have caused too much suffering to too many people for the crime comitted.”

I assume that same reasoning applies to the bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Kenya. Oh I get it now. According to you 9/11 had to happen with a certain quota of U.S. citizens being killed to make it justifiable to invade Afghanistan. You are insane.
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At least they were on OUR Radar. Bush gave Afghanistan 42 MILLION DOLLARS in August of 01. I wouldnt have done THAT. We could have frozen their assets which we didnt do until 98 Sanctions, international pressure, there are things we could have done SHORT of invading and killing tens of thousands which since you are so ignorant is your answer for everything.

“See anything there about recognized legitimacy according to the UN or US? No you dont know why? IT ISNT RELEVANT TO BEING SOVERIEGN”

If the rest of the world subscribed to your BS dictionary definition of soverignty there would be three times as many countries in the world as there is today.
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Ok at this point you are taking your abject stupidity into the realm of insanity. So dictionaries DONT tell us what words mean? You were wrong get over it. Its going to happen to you a lot since you are very, VERY STUPID. Just accept it and move on that kind of answer that moves from your usual level of galactic level of stupidity to needing and increase in your antiphsychotics just makes you look humiliatingly unhinged. You do know dont you that it is a basically inchorent and meaningless attempt at a point.

“Why do you keep asking this totally irrelevant question?”

As far as the rest of the world is concerned it a very relevant question.
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MY GOD your ignorance is just an inpenetrable barrier. The QUESTION IS could the Taliban hand over Bin Laden, what other countries think about the Taliban is totally irrelevant to this question which is why I assume you keep answering it, well that and you are so stupid you just type whatever floats to the top of that sump that you have in place of a brain.

“The point originally was why would we make the PEOPLE of Afghanistan suffer for a terrorist bombing of an embassy when they were already victims of Al Queda when there were other options.”

Other options? The Taliban demanded evidence of bin Laden’s culpability in the 9/11 attacks eventhough he had ALREADY been indicted four years prior for the 1998 Kenya bombings. Just this indictment alone should have been enough for the Taliban to turn over bin Laden. The demanding of proof of his role in 9/11 was irrelevant.
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Is that right? We have no extradition treaty with Afghanistan. We wanted him, asking for evidence of his culpability is a reasonable thing to ask. We HAD the evidence, I dont know what the great burden of providing it would be other than your John Wayne, warmonger view of the world would be offended by the very IDEA that other countries just dont do what they are told. You are too ignorant to have a conversation with. It is too much trouble to hold you by the hand and walk you repeatedly through simple concepts that any reasonably bright ten year old would understand the first time. Do the world a favor. DO. NOT. BREED.

But a provision to allow the FBI to wiretap all telephones used by a suspected terrorist was dropped and one requiring explosives manufacturers to insert chemical tracers in their products was weakened to cover only plastic explosives.

Clinton said he wanted increased wiretap authority “for terrorists who are moving from place to place,” adding: “Where they are flexible, so must we be.”

August 30th, 2008 at 2:23 am

Gladly.

archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/10/18/column.billpress/index.html

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/election/august96/clintonspeech_8-6.html

http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/29/clinton.terrorism/

Any attack on the al Qaeda in Afghanistan, therefore, required flying through the sovereign airspace, or crossing over the sovereign territory, of either Iran or Pakistan.

After the 1998 African embassy bombings, President Bill Clinton chose unmanned cruise missiles launched from U.S. ships to try to take out Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda gang of right-wing religious cutthroats. Some al Qaeda were killed, but bin Laden escaped.

President Bill Clinton warned the al Qaeda, though, that if they killed anymore U.S. citizens, wherever, then he’d come get them.

Two years later, in October 2000, the al Qaeda attacked the U.S.S. Cole in a Yemeni harbor, killing U.S. sailors. It took several months to pinpoint the al Qaeda as the culprits, just before Bush took office in January 2001.

All this information was turned over to the incoming Bush admnistration, including our president’s, Bill Clinton’s, final warning to the al Qaeda, and bin Laden…kill anymore U.S. citizens and it won’t be just cruise missiles next time.

The Bush administration, as they did involving all things Clinton, blew off what President Bill Clinton told the al Qaeda that America, and our armed forces, would do if they killed anymore U.S. citizens, wherever.

The Bush administration, being die-hard Republicans, adopted the attitude that anything Bill Clinton proposed was bad. Just as they adopted the attitude that anything any Democrat proposed, Clinton, Carter, Johnson, FDR, was bad.

So, in 2001, the Bush administration completely blew off the al Qaeda threat because the outgoing Democratic administration of President Bill Clinton had taken the threat so seriously.

Even when the Taliban (al Qaeda) in Afghanistan in the Summer of 2001 arrested two Baptist women for proselytizing, the Bush administration still did nothing, didn’t follow through on the Clinton-Era threat to take out al Qaeda.

Then 9/11 happened. Then the Bush administration finally responded. Then the Bush administration finally adopted many, if not all, of the counter-terrorism proposals of the previous Clinton administration, while adding their own neo-con Republican, over-the-top, neo-fascist, anti-FISA, anti-Constitution, anti-Bill of Rights twist to the newly-named “war on terror” security measures proposed and rammed through Congress.

This all makes me suspect that top-level criminal Republicans in the Bush administration intentionally turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to all the warning signs of an imminent al Qaeda attack during the Summer of 2001. Warning sirens were blaring throughout our intelligence and law enforcement communities. But top-level criminal Republicans in the Bush administration wanted another terrorist attack to occur, preferably one inside our nation’s borders.

“Where on a map is this country called the Taliban and when did the US sign an extradition treaty with it?”

I think you need to ask EugeneDebs that question. He/she thinks the Taliban were the legitimate government of Afghanistan.
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So you are not only INCREDIBLY STUPID you are a liar. I dont arbitrate legitimacy. That call also isnt up to the US or any other country. I never argued their legitimacy. I despised them LOOOOONG before the conservatives decided they were bad guys. Legitimacy is IRRELEVANT. THEY RULED THE COUNTRY. No one ANYWHERE with and IQ above that of a dustbunny DISPUTES that they WERE in control of the country and that they DID rule it legitimatly or NOT therefore they COULD have delivered Bin Laden. I dont think the current government of Mauritania is legitmate THAT ISNT MY CALL. Nor is it relevant to whether or not they RULE or are a soveriegn nation YOU INSUFFERABLE MORON.

“How STUPID can you possibly be whether or not they were the recognized rulers is irrelvant they WERE in control of the country”

Your claim was that the Taliban were the rulers of Afghanistan and that they had the LEGAL authority to extradite bin Laden. The fact that they weren’t the internationally recognized rulers of Afghanistan makes you claim they have the internationally recognized legal authority to extradite bin Laden is false.
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I guess we will never KNOW for sure now since we rebuffed them. YOU cant read their minds and I wont TRY because, you know, ITS STUPID.

“You are IGNORANT Tracy they DID offer to extradite him TWICE”

It was a false offer and a bluff. LOL!
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You know this HOW? Your amazing mind reading powers? Your Ouiji board? Did you throw the I CHING? Oh you CANT POSSIBLY KNOW, that is just a convienient thing to say since you have no actual argument? Look MORON if it were a BLUFF we could have called it and when they reneged it would have given us more legitimacy. MY GOD you are stupid

“You asked why he hadnt attacked Afghanistan BEFORE 1998?

No I asked why he didn’t go into Afghanistan AFTER the 1998 Kenya U.S. Embassy bombings.
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MY GOD you are not only too stupid to know what you are talking about you are too stupid to remember what you WROTE you asked how many terrorist training camps Clinton destroyed before 2001 EXCEPT THE ONES HE DESTROYED IN 1998 that was AFTER the bombings you keep talking about THAT was the first time he had a reason to. This makes no sense unless you are saying he should have bombed them BEFORE the first terrorist attacks Al Queda made since he bombed them directly as soon as they DID.

“As to who recognized them if I remember right Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates I think a couple of others but how in the WORLD is that relevant?”

And Pakistan, but you ask how in the world is that relevant? It isn’t. They are not and have never been the legitimate government of Afghanistan.
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They WERE the government, they HAD control. They COULD have turned over Bin Laden which they DID offer to do whether or not we accept their legitimacy is irrelvant to whether they could or would have. You conservatives are late on the whole Taliban is an evil government bandwagon. Where were YOU when the liberals were screaming about them in 92 through 98 when they were blowing up the great Bhudda statue and when Amnesty International was screaming about how women were being treated there?

“…so they were still a soveriegn nation”
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Of COURSE they were. THEY were an independently ruled country here is the dictionary definition of soveriegn

One that exercises supreme, permanent authority, especially in a nation or other governmental unit, as:
a. A king, queen, or other noble person who serves as chief of state; a ruler or monarch.
b. A national governing council or committee.

See anything there about recognized legitimacy according to the UN or US? No you dont know why? IT ISNT RELEVANT TO BEING SOVERIEGN

And which international organization recognized them politically?
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Why do you keep asking this totally irrelevant question?

“Are you really claiming that when we finally DID invade Afghanistan that no one besides the Taliban suffered?”

Absolutely not. It seems however according to your warped unrealistic thinking that it’s wrong to go after anyone unless you have a guarantee that no innocent people will be killed. Question….during WW2 thousands of innocent German civilians were killed during allied bombing. The allies were not justified in their bombing of German factories?
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Your stupidity knows no bounds. The point originally was why would we make the PEOPLE of Afghanistan suffer for a terrorist bombing of an embassy when they were already victims of Al Queda when there were other options. It would be the actions of an international bully. After 9/11 it was justified after the bombing of the Khobar towers it wasnt. It would have caused too much suffering to too many people for the crime comitted. Especially when WE do the same thing. WE bombed a Mosque in Lebanon in 82 and killed 80 people and maimed another 200.

Again, please go back to sleep.
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Again stick your head back in that dark, dank place you pull your stupid arguments from like the ignorant, moronic piece of garbage you are.

Why do you think sending the military into Afghanistan was the only option Clinton should have exercised? What was wrong with sending all those cruise missiles at the training camps? I mean, other than the fact that once the Pakistanis saw the missiles flying over their heads, they would have warned bin Laden to try to save him? Even Newt gingrich said that launching the missiles was “the right thing to do.” (Of course, he changed his tune after 9/11 and said it was inadequate, but at the time he said Clinton did it right.)

The Taliban OFFEREd to turn Bin Laden over to a third country and TOLD us that if we would show them evidence of his guilt, which is standard for extradition”

Also you do know that only three states UAE, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia recognized the Taliban as the legitimate governing entity in Afghanistan? Considering this fact, i.e. that the Taliban WAS NOT and HAS NEVER been the internationally recognized governing authority in Afghanistan you lame argument that Taliban could even be in a position to legitimately offer bin Laden to the U.S. is a irrelevant.
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How STUPID can you possibly be whether or not they were the recognized rulers is irrelvant they WERE in control of the country and COULD have gotten Bin Laden and turned him over if they wanted to and DID offer to twice we rebuffed them. We didnt recognize Red China for decades either but they obviously DID rule China my GOD you are a moron.

“You actually think that they would have turned him over considering that were allowing his terrorist organization to operate in Afghanistan years prior to 9/11? Again, please go back to sleep.
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You are IGNORANT Tracy they DID offer to extradite him TWICE, what part of that simple statement is to confusing for your simple mind? Do you think if you just keep repeating something ignorant often enough it will magically become true? Stick your head back in the sand or back where your proctologist removed it from you ignoramus

“That Clinton should have bombed a soveriegn nation based on what he thought they MIGHT DO IN THE FUTURE?”

What they might do in the future? al Qaeda after multiple attacks against the U.S. was training in Afghanistan through out the 1990s and the Taliban were harboring them and giving them safe haven. The Taliban were the dictators, i.e. the defato illegitimate rulers of Afghanistan and had virtually no legitimate standing and recognition in the international community. Which countries actually recognized the Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan?
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My GOD you are an idiot. You asked why he hadnt attacked Afghanistan BEFORE 1998, THAT was the first Al Queda attacks on us. Before they had attacked Yemen but not US so exactly WHAT multiple attacks are you talking about BEFORE 1998? They dont exist. As to who recognized them if I remember right Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates I think a couple of others but how in the WORLD is that relevant? They WERE the government and they WERE self governing not a colony, so they were still a soveriegn nation and didnt Bush give them 42 MILLION dollars a month before 9/11? Why YES I believe he did. It isnt UP to us to just invade any country we dont like BEFORE they have done anything to us.

“Why should we make those people who were already victims of Al Queda victims of OUR military”

The Taliban, i.e. the SPECIFIC group of people our military went after inside Afghanistan. They weren’t “victims” of anything.
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Are you an infant ? Are you really this stupid? Do you have ANY reading comprehension whatsoever? Are you really claiming that when we finally DID invade Afghanistan that no one besides the Taliban suffered? WE BOMBED KABUL YOU MORON. So why would an invasion BEFORE 1998 have been different? The people of ANY country suffer during an invasion. So why would we make victims of the PEOPLE of Afghanistan that were already victims of Al Queda until there was no other option? You warmongers dont really care how many brown skin people over THERE die as long as YOU can have some really ignorant vicarious glory that OUR soldiers are killing people. Did you learn everything you know about foriegn policy by watchin8g John Wayne movies?

After 9/11 do you actually think that the Taliban was going to extradite bin Laden to the U.S.? A you insane? Go back to sleep…please.

Ok, I’ve been sitting here reading all these comments. Tracy, I have a question for you. Where on a map is this country called the Taliban and when did the US sign an extradition treaty with it?

I may think twice about asking someone if they are “A you insane?”

After 9/11 do you actually think that the Taliban was going to extradite bin Laden to the U.S.? A you insane? Go back to sleep…please.
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Did you really question someone ELSES sanity? Considering YOU are as stupid as an underwater BBQ, I would say you were doing some projecting there. The Taliban OFFEREd to turn Bin Laden over to a third country and TOLD us that if we would show them evidence of his guilt, which is standard for extradition, they WOULD turn him over. You do know you are a moron right?

Actually, it was only 7 months, 22 days into his presidency that we were attacked, not a year plus nine months. (Selected in Nov ‘00; sworn in Jan ‘01.)

As for the “Who could have imagined” line, if she was under oath when she said it, she should have charged with perjury. In July ‘01, the leaders attending the G8 conference were told they had to be moved because of a report that terrorists were going to fly planes into the buildings they were staying in. So, I guess she and the rest of the staff should have been able to imagine it.