O’Hanlon: Bush deserves credit for Iraq being free of WMD.
By on Sep 3rd, 2008 at 4:22 pm
O’Hanlon: Bush deserves credit for Iraq being free of WMD.
Last night, CBS News reviewed President Bush’s legacy and noted that it will largely be defined by his misguided invasion of Iraq. During its report, Iraq war apologist Michael O’Hanlon recalled that Bush went to war in a “deliberately cavalier way,” but added that Americans should “be fair” and give Bush credit for their being no WMD in Iraq:
O’HANLON: But let’s also be fair. Iraq now seems to be a quasi-functioning democracy, without weapons of mass destruction, without genocides against its own citizens or attacks against its neighbors. So, to some extent, we’ve got to give the president his due.
Watch it:
Note to O’Hanlon: The fact that Iraq didn’t have WMD is what made Bush’s invasion of Iraq “deliberately cavalier.”
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Bush deserves credit for Iraq being free of WMD
Cough, cough, gag, gag.
You numbnuts, Iraq NEVER had WMD prior to our invasion.
NO CREDIT!
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:26 pmGive bush his due: throw him in jail.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:26 pmO’HANLON: Iraq now seems to be […} without genocides against its own citizens…
_____________
Huh??? WTF??? Oh… no MORE genocides… because they’re ALREADY dead…
_____________
or attacks against its neighbors.
_____________
Righto… because they’re too busy attacking each other…
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:26 pmUncle Ho Says:
NO CREDIT!
__________
Your comment is incomplete, Uncle Ho…
NO CREDIT… for time already served!!!
There… better, no?
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:27 pmWell to be fair, O’hanlon has to give Obama credit for the lack of leprechauns in Iran.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:28 pm…and to be fair, we have to give Chimpy credit that there is still no plague of elephants swarming the US.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:32 pmAnd O’Hanlon needs to give credit to himself for the lack of brain cells in the media
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:33 pmWhoa! Let’s not tarnish the mascot of my college alma mater, the Virginia Cavaliers. I don’t want it to turn into the Wahoo Liars…
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:35 pmBush also has halted the invasion of the MOLEMEN!!!!!
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:39 pmThe bottomless, innane, total disconnect from reality completely blows my mind. The slow-motion train wreck drags on, and on. Come On January 20th!!!
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:39 pmImpeach Pelosi, Cheney and Bush and Save the Constitution!
Bush is also responsible for the sun rising in the East every single day he’s been president. But do we give that poor man credit for that? NO! we should be ashamed of ourselves. ashamed.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:40 pmAnd the Daleks! And the Cybermen, don’t forget the Cybermen! Oh that W, Ain’t he something!
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:40 pmIPCandBandSTC!
Let’s see here . . . Bush lied about them being there when they weren’t, so he’s responsible for them not being there? Why would any sane person put forth this circular argument? Must be a Republican neocon!
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:40 pmAnd bush has made everyone in America smarter. By comparison.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:41 pmO’HANLON: But let’s also be fair. Mexico now seems to be a quasi-functioning democracy, without weapons of mass destruction, without genocides against its own citizens or attacks against its neighbors. So, to some extent, we’ve got to give the president his due.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:42 pmLet’s face it. “Preemptive War” is merely a euphemism for “naked agression”!!!!
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:43 pmOh, for the love of GOD!!!
What on earth has that dumbfleck been smoking????
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:44 pmO’Hanlon must have suffered brain damage somewhere along the line. Either that, or Cheney’s boys have some really juicy dirt on him.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:44 pmWaltB, since they weren’t there to begin with and since we’ve taken over the country and they haven’t appeared or been brought in by the terrorists bush invited in, bush is responsible for there not being any there. just like he’s responsible for there being nukes in N. Korea. And Pakistan.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:46 pmI’m beginning to think that the Consertives have been taken over by the Borg.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:48 pmSoo, let’s see: bush invades a sovereign nation over purposely bogus probable cause….kills, maims and destroys a million plus people…then O’Hanlon gives him kudos for invading a sovereign nation to show there was no good reason to invade a sovereign nation….and bush gets credit for proving there was no probable cause in the first place…
Thank you garcon; I’ll take my pickled leg warmers by the davenport, extra bowling ball with shouty-crackers.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:51 pmThis is sort of like saying you deserve credit for not raping a woman; and that she’s healthy because you didn’t rape her.
What is up with conservative logic?
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:52 pmI have read some really funny (like haha) things over the past few days but this really had me laughing. Safe from WMD is right up there with “internet is a bunch of tubes” and the most laughable of all “cow farts are causing global warming”
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:52 pmYes, give Bush his due, a huge kick in the back side. Using the same logic:
Iraq had hot summers before the U.S. invasion and it has hot summers now. So to some extent, we must give the President his due.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:54 pmFritz Says:
“…and to be fair, we have to give Chimpy credit that there is still no plague of elephants swarming the US.”
You might want to check with Minneapolis before jumping to any conclusions. I hear they’ve got the last of them contained in some kind of stadium, though, so are no longer posing any real threat ;)
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:55 pmBobwurst Says:
——————————————————————————–
Bush is also responsible for the sun rising in the East every single day he’s been president.
Maverick that he is, John McCain has criticized the Bush administration for not deploying troops to the sun. As a gigantic fusion bomb, the sun itself is a WMD. If elected, McCain has vowed a “Surge” of troops to attack the sun in order to eliminate this grave threat to America.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:56 pmI give total credit to bush for death of the 4134 men and women who will never come back to America. I give bush credit for the men and women who committ suicide once home because of the terrors they still see in their minds. I give bush credit for the almost 30,000 who lost limbs, suffered severe burns and will have emotional problems the rest of their life. If bush is a human being at all may he live a long life and someday realize what he has done.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:56 pmI know one of my neighbors who has a lot of nice merchandise in their house and is rapidly anti-gun.
So I can get together a few of my friends with hunting rifles, break into their house, take their possessions
And the courts will praise me for being responsbile for assuring that my neighbor doesn’t have weapons
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:00 pmI am so goddamn thankful we don’t have flying elephants here in the lovely state of Washington.
Think of the windshield cleaner it saves!
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:01 pmaquarius2 Says:
I have read some really funny (like haha) things over the past few days but this really had me laughing. Safe from WMD is right up there with “internet is a bunch of tubes” and the most laughable of all “cow farts are causing global warming”
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:52 pm
______
Cow farts are causing global warming.
Well, they’re a major contributor, anyhow.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:06 pm…and I deserve credit for keeping America safe from the ever-present threat of burrowing pin-striped piranha wombats.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:09 pmWhere are my kudos for keeping the Arctic and Antarctica nuke free ?
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:10 pmshoeless Says:
If elected, McCain has vowed a “Surge” of troops to attack the sun in order to eliminate this grave threat to America.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:56 pm
_____
Good point – the sun is pretty darn dangerous. Just look what it did to the guy’s face…
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:12 pmhttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/24/60minutes/main3749494_page6.shtml
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:24 pm“He wanted to pursue all of WMD. So he wanted to reconstitute his entire WMD program,” says Piro.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/24/60minutes/main3749494_page6.shtml
If Saddam was still in power, the world would still not know whether he had WMD. And if you believe his intentions, he would be reconstituting his WMD programs.
He was/and would have continued to be a threat.
There were many problems with the war in Iraq, but on this, I think you have to give the devil his due.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:27 pmbackup Says:
http://www.cbsnews.com/ stories/ 2008/ 01/ 24/ 60minutes/ main3749494_page6.shtml
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Thanks for the link, backup!
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:28 pm
I’ve been gone for almost a week, and the trolls have somehow gotten even stupider.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:34 pmThose who supported the invasion of Iraq have the blood of thousands of American troops, and the blood of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis on their hands. Many of these people have such a weak moral character that they will never admit they were wrong, despite the fact that everyone else in the world knows they are guilty. These pathetic emotional midgets are doomed to spend the rest of their lives defending this indefensible slaughter.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:36 pm“Chemical, biological, even nuclear,” Pelley asks.
“Yes,” Piro says.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:38 pmbackup Says:
“There were many problems with the war in Iraq”
Like what?
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:40 pmSee what I mean?
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:40 pm666lattes Says:
——————————————————————————–
backup Says:
“There were many problems with the war in Iraq”
Like what?
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Like ………….Going there in the 1st place
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:44 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
——————————————————————————–
I’ve been gone for almost a week, and the trolls have somehow gotten even stupider.
By now, we know they aren’t going to get any smarter. So, there is only one way for them to go.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:45 pmMCMetal,
Agreed… I just want to hear it from backup. I’ve seen this a lot, recently. A lot of right-wing commenters on cable news shows etc… who have been wrong about the war from the beginning, are now admitting that the war is wrong, but not qualifying those statements in any way.
They need to own it completely and not be allowed to jump on the bandwagon simply because it’s the popular thing to do.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:48 pmPiro said Saddam also said that he wanted to keep up the illusion that he had the program in part because he thought it would deter a likely Iranian invasion.
“For him, it was critical that he was seen as still the strong, defiant Saddam. He thought that (faking having the weapons) would prevent the Iranians from reinvading Iraq,” Piro told Scott Pelley of “60 Minutes.”
Piro added that Saddam had the intention of restarting an Iraqi weapons program at the time, and had engineers available for chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4§ion=0&article=106136&d=27&m=1&y=2008
In hindsight it’s easy to see that Saddam was bluffing. But even today, many downplay the threat of Iran. Why should we have believed that Saddam was a) threatened by peaceful Iran and b) lying about his bluff about WMD that was causing so much global consternation and economically painful Iraqi sanctions?
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:50 pmI suppose you’re right. But is it a case of actual degeneration of their mental capabilities, or is it just a reflection of how difficult it is to defend today’s GOP?
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:50 pmAh… but there are. And you can thank the US Supreme Court (Bush v. Gore) for that.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:54 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
I’ve been gone for almost a week, and the trolls have somehow gotten even stupider.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:34 pm
It’s your fault, ralph! You weren’t here to whip them into shape!
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:54 pmUnreal. backed-up is still trying to justify the invasion of a sovereign nation that hadn’t attacked us and was no threat to us, an invasion that was hugely popular at the time but has now been revealed as the biggest foreign policy blunder in this nation’s history.
Backed-up is actually trying to convince those of us who were able to see that Saddam was bluffing, of the wisdom of those who were unable to see it.
Good luck with that.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:55 pmWhy should we have believed that Saddam was lying about his bluff about WMD that was causing so much global consternation and economically painful Iraqi sanctions?
Ummm, because the UN inspectors said there were no WMDs?
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:56 pmThe guy’s become a complete tool.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:02 pmI’ve made the argument many times, that in hindsight the invasion of Iraq was a mistake because there were no weapons of mass destruction. We should have remained focused on Afghanistan and taken more time to deal with Iraq without war. But, we did not know then what we know now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZcY6TGfAxE
Now that we are talking about misjudgements, we ought to get the whole surge thing out of the way:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/02/us-forces-hand-over-anbar-security/
It would have been a disaster to abandon Iraq to civil war and genocide by foregoing the surge. We are now accomplishing a peaceful handover to a stable democracy. I’m glad we supported the additional troops and change of strategy that made it possible.
Many, many mistakes were made in Iraq. Much repair work of strained relations remains throughout the world. But, Saddam is no longer in power. He no longer poses a threat to the rest of the world. And the formally repressed people of Iraq participate in democracy and offer an alternative to Islamic fundamentalist theology to the rest of the middle east.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:05 pmEat shit and die backup, we have been over this for the last seven years. Your God Bush is and was an incompetent loser and your continued dingleberry munching isn’t going to change that fact.
Give it up, you’re wasting space.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:05 pmSecond that.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:11 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
nanlichi Says:
Eat shit and die backup, we have been over this for the last seven years. Your God Bush is and was an incompetent loser and your continued dingleberry munching isn’t going to change that fact.
Give it up, you’re wasting space.
Second that.
Third, and fourth that…..
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:18 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
I suppose you’re right. But is it a case of actual degeneration of their mental capabilities, or is it just a reflection of how difficult it is to defend today’s GOP?
My momma always said, “Stupid is as stupid does.”
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:19 pmBut, we did not know then what we know now.
You mean you were blind to what the rest of the world, and a good part of the US population (the smarter part) knew: Saddam didn’t pose any threat to the rest of the world.
Were people in Tanzania shivering in fear because of Saddam? No. The people in Italy were building shelters to protect themselves from Saddam, right? No. Towns in Puerto Rico were doing drills to prepare from the terrible hordes of Saddam forces, right? NO.
So shove your “menace to the rest of the world” stories up your tail, and admit it: you guys fracked things up completely. 7 years and the people in Baghdad still can’t get proper electricity and water services. AND YOU CAUSED IT.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:22 pmI won’t press whether Bush should have known or not. I don’t see what you see, and with the evidence I’ve seen here, I don’t think I ever will.
We can agree to disagree.
But, who wants to stand up here and talk me through why it would have been so much more prudent for us to just begin withdrawing a couple of years ago, when Ried said the war was lost, and when many were claiming that Iraq was an insurmountable civil war that could only be relieved by our absence?
There is more relative calm in Iraq. The Iraqis seem sufficiently capable to handle their own security. A stable, secure democracy in Iraq was the goal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act
It was very difficult and too costly, but it looks more and more likely every day.
If I can admit that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake in hindsight, surely many here can admit that opposing the surge in favor of a premature withdrawal, would have also been a mistake.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:28 pmThe Act declared that it was the Policy of the United States to support “regime change.” The Act was passed 360-38 in the U.S. House of Representatives[2] and by unanimous consent in the Senate.[3] US President Bill Clinton signed the bill into law on October 31, 1998.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:29 pm“Deliberately cavalier” is an oxymoron along the lines of republican intelligence.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:40 pmWhy should we have believed that Saddam was lying about his bluff about WMD that was causing so much global consternation and economically painful Iraqi sanctions?
Because the Iraqi chief of intelligence who the US “turned,” paid $5 million and resettled in Jordan told the CIA that very thing months before the war!!!
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:43 pmSaddam got rid of the ‘WMD’s’ in the mid 90s. Therefore, Bush deserves no credit. Nice try O’Hanlon.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:48 pmThe chief of Iraqi intelligence story is very interesting. If it’s credible it should give the Democratically controlled Congress all the ammunition it needs to start impeachment proceedings immediately.
That is, if it’s credible.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:56 pmApparently, even though several of us have told backed-up that he’s wasting his time with this sad line of trolling, backed-up has nothing better on which to waste his time.
That’s the sad part.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:02 pmHomer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol is working like a charm!
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:02 pmLisa: That’s specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: [uncomprehendingly] Thanks, honey.
Lisa: By your logic, I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Hmm. How does it work?
Lisa: It doesn’t work; it’s just a stupid rock!
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don’t see any tigers around, do you?
Homer: (pause) Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
Bush deserves execution for WAR CRIMES!
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:05 pmbackup Says:
The Act declared that it was the Policy of the United States to support “regime change.” The Act was passed 360-38 in the U.S. House of Representatives[2] and by unanimous consent in the Senate.[3] US President Bill Clinton signed the bill into law on October 31, 1998.
There’s a big difference between supporting “regime change” and lying us into a war!
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:08 pmThe Act declared that it was the Policy of the United States to support “regime change.”
The Act also says, “Nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorize or otherwise speak to the use of United States Armed Forces (except as provided in section 4(a)(2)) in carrying out this Act.” Section 4(a)(2) refers to supplies and training.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:10 pmralph. We’re both here, my friend.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:11 pmYeah, but you’re the only one who’s here trying to defend the wisdom of those who were convinced Saddam had WMD to those who knew he didn’t.
I’m just here to laugh at you.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:14 pmPoint taken. While you’re laughing though, you might consider some kind of response to the entrenched position of many progressives that the surge would be/is a monumental failure.
Murtha figured it out relatively early. Obama’s taken it down from his website. I posted the link to the peaceful turn over of power in Anbar. Won’t find much doubt in the media. Even TP’s stopped posting on it.
Pretty much everybody’s getting it. But, the silence here is deafening.
How was it again that the surge was a hugh mistake?
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:23 pmWho is Hugh? The problem with the surge is that the goal posts continue to be moved about in order to ensure its success as has been the norn with this whole adventure.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:28 pmHugh E?
you got me. I meant huge. I just crossed over to Mac and can’t figure out the spell check.
I concede that the situation in Iraq is manipulated for politics, but the trend seems better regardless of how it’s being pulled politically.
I think it would have been a mistake to leave a couple of years ago.
There were huge mistakes in the war. Deciding to stay committed in ‘07 and ‘08 with more troops, I believe was a good call.
I also concede that it was probably less troop strength and more of an enlightened approach to the Iraqis that made the most difference.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:43 pm“more of an enlightened approach to the Iraqis”?
I guess that’s one way to describe generous cash payments to warlords so that they wouldn’t kill each other, as long as the payments kept coming.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:48 pmralph. come on. just say it. It will make you feel better.
“The situation in Iraq is getting better since the surge”.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:59 pmOkay, backed-up. I’ll say it: “The situation in Iraq is getting better since the Anbar Awakening”.
Oh wait — did that come before or after the Surge™?
Oh, hell, let’s avoid that chicken-or-the-egg debate. I’ll just come out and say it:
“The situation in Iraq is getting better since all of the neighborhoods in Baghdad have been successfully ethnically cleansed”.
Feel better?
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:03 pmOkay, ralph. I give.
I’ve got to split (wife doesn’t see the value of blogging), but I haven’t seen you around for awhile and I hope you have been doing well.
I’ve also got to go, because I’m interested to see if Palin can read a tele prompter.
Good nite.
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:08 pmDoes the dark and stinky conditions in O’Hanlon’s think tank kill millions of brain cells daily or is it all at once??
These guys deserve to do the clean up at Gitmo for the next 100 years bare handed just for yuks… Food/water ? HHAA!! Not until you find WMD in the sands of Gitmo beach….Oh that’s cruel?? TFB…
Smear machine has now turned into the re-write history machine again….
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:10 pmI wonder why C – BS would be pushing for viewer re-education regarding Bush’s legacy(Cheney). Pretty sure there has been plenty of news/reports/statements to the fact that Bush(&Cheney) was looking for ANY reason to wipe Iraq off the map from day 1 of his stolen presidency….add THAT to your legacy montage C – BS.
—————————–
mis·guid·ed (ms-gdd)
adj.
Based or acting on error; misled: well-intentioned but misguided efforts
—————————–
Corporate News needs to stop telling Americans that Iraq was a mistake – it was not a mistake it was a pre-meditated crime. Any news source that tells you otherwise is full of shit.(CBS)
As for Bush being credited for a quasi-functioning democracy???? (see attached)
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/96630/half_of_baghdad_lacks_drinking_water_/
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:39 pm.
R E M E M B E R:
Michael O’Hanlon collects a paycheck to be the propagandist.
For Michael O’Hanlon to even remotely appear to be credible on the subject of Iraq’s WMD’s, he should first prove that there were WMD’s in Iraq on Bush’s watch which makes Bush’s illegal invasion and continued occupation justifiable by his standards.
Michael O’Hanlon = LIAR
Michael O’Hanlon = PROPAGANDIST
Michael O’Hanlon = SOULLESS
.
September 4th, 2008 at 2:05 ambackup Says:
Have you LOST YOUR MIND?????
“He wanted to pursue all of WMD. So he wanted to reconstitute his entire WMD program,” says Piro.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am sure he WANTED to turn sand into gold too but Iraq was ALREADY WMD free so NO, to anyone SANE Bush deserves NO credit for that.
http://www.cbsnews.com/ stories/ 2008/ 01/ 24/ 60minutes/ main3749494_page6.shtml
If Saddam was still in power, the world would still not know whether he had WMD. And if you believe his intentions, he would be reconstituting his WMD programs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And WHY wouldnt the world know? THE INSPECTORS WERE THERE going wherever they wanted they said they needed only a few more months to do their job and they could have TOLD the world what we now know, NO WMDs. THAT is why BUsh kicked them out and invaded he was about to lose his BS reason for invading.
He was/and would have continued to be a threat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
A threat to WHOM? General Zinni when TESTIFYING TO THE SENATE said he wasnt a threat not to us not to his neighbors not a gathering threat not even close. Just because a wingnut SAYS It doesnt make it true.
There were many problems with the war in Iraq, but on this, I think you have to give the devil his due.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Then you have indeed lost your mind. Bush deserves NO credit for lying to the American people and congress to invade Iraq under false pretenses while the inspectors were there and doing everything we needed done to resolve that situation. I am afraid you have been guzzling too much kool-aid and it has reached toxic levels in your brain.
September 4th, 2008 at 4:31 ambackup Says:
Now that we are talking about misjudgements, we ought to get the whole surge thing out of the way:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/ news/ 2008/ sep/ 02/ us-forces-hand-over-anbar-security/
It would have been a disaster to abandon Iraq to civil war and genocide by foregoing the surge. We are now accomplishing a peaceful handover to a stable democracy. I’m glad we supported the additional troops and change of strategy that made it possible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
First of all the Moonie Times isnt a credible source for what day it is. The Rev Sun Yung Moon ADMITTED he uses it to push his ideology. Second that rationale is COMPLETELY logic free. Are you REALLY making the argument that though you guys were WRONG ABOUT EVERY CLAIM YOU EVER MADE ABOUT IRAQ that you were RIGHT to stay in Iraq based on ANOTHER prediction that you were making about what MIGHT happen if we didnt????? That is laughable. I could have used a magic 8 ball to make predictions about Iraq and had a better track record.
Many, many mistakes were made in Iraq. Much repair work of strained relations remains throughout the world. But, Saddam is no longer in power. He no longer poses a threat to the rest of the world. And the formally repressed people of Iraq participate in democracy and offer an alternative to Islamic fundamentalist theology to the rest of the middle east.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This claim is blatantly stupid. Saddam ALREADY posed no threat to the rest of the world. Both Iran and Kuwait the two last countries he invaded opposed our invasion. He hadnt so much as SNEEZED in anyones direction in the previous decade. IF the whole crux of the problem is fundamentalist Islamic theology then invading the MOST SECULAR ISLAMIC COUNTRY IN THE REGION WAS INSANITY. You have your talking points memorized the logic however is non-existant
September 4th, 2008 at 4:42 ambackup Says:
I won’t press whether Bush should have known or not. I don’t see what you see, and with the evidence I’ve seen here, I don’t think I ever will.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It is hard to tell what Bush knows or doesnt he is obviously dumb as a post. What is NOT in dispute. What there is NO REASONABLE ARGUMENT AGAINST is that he told demonstrable lies to both the American people and Congress about Iraq and their WMDS. That is an indisputable FACT.
We can agree to disagree.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You can agree to disagree that water is wet if you want to it wont change the nature of water.
But, who wants to stand up here and talk me through why it would have been so much more prudent for us to just begin withdrawing a couple of years ago
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Because everything that could be accomplished militarily was already accomplished and all the remaining problems were political as occupiers we couldnt help with them. The reason we DID stay was the reason we invaded in the first place to get those oil contracts for American oil corporations that had been shut out of Iraq. The fact we started PAYING OFF the disparate groups to stop killing each other and that the ethnic cleansing of the neighborhoods hadnt been finished yet as later changes this in no way. All the Iraqi problems there are left are Iraqs to solve and we cant help them with them. Nor will any government be seen as legitimate as long as we stay. ESPECIALLY when we ignore their soveriegnity like when the Iraqi president called for Blackwater to leave after their totally irresponsible attrocity in Baghdad last Dec and Bush telling them to take a hike showing who the REAL boss in Iraq was. The bottom line here is you know the talking points but have no real idea what you are talking about.
September 4th, 2008 at 4:50 ambackup Says:
The Act declared that it was the Policy of the United States to support “regime change.” The Act was passed 360-38 in the U.S. House of Representatives[2] and by unanimous consent in the Senate.[3] US President Bill Clinton signed the bill into law on October 31, 1998.
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\Which means virtually NOTHING. We would LIKE to see a regime change in China, Venezuala, Egypt, Tunisia, Sudan… and on and on doesnt mean we are going to invade and we would be lawless warmongers if we did invade all those countries. Try to think for yourself instead of repeating all this garbage the rightwing screechmonkeys instruct you to repeat. Being assimilated into the hivemind is no way to live a decent life.
September 4th, 2008 at 4:52 ambackup Says:
The chief of Iraqi intelligence story is very interesting. If it’s credible it should give the Democratically controlled Congress all the ammunition it needs to start impeachment proceedings immediately.
That is, if it’s credible.
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Oh its VERY credible. Hussien Kamel was Saddams son in law. He PROVED he was very credible in his debriefing. We already have PLENTY of credible ammunition to impeach Bush we could send him to either prison or the Hague without breaking a sweat. The reason we dont has a whole lot more to do with Democratic SPINELESSNESS than Bush not being a lying, cretinous scofflaw.
September 4th, 2008 at 4:56 ambackup Says:
How was it again that the surge was a hugh mistake?
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Because it WAS a failure. There were WHAT 18 objectives? How many have been reached again? Thats right well less than half. So because we managed to pay off enough Iraqis to stop shooting each other which we cant do forever you just want to get away with saying since ONE aspect of the 18 was accomplished then it was a resounding success? The Iraqis still dont have political stability and they never will as long as we occupy them. You really have no idea what is going on do you?
September 4th, 2008 at 4:59 amAnd if Iraq had had WMD, that would have justified our invasion?
It is insane that we accept this argument just because we didn’t find WMD. That just gives the crazed neocons reason to fight another day – Iran, Syria, whatever pathetic little state their fevered imaginations settle on that day.
Bottom line: Iraq was no conceivable threat to us regardless of whether or not it had WMD, had never threatened to attack us, had no means to do so, and would have been squashed like a bug if it had so much as lobbed a mortar across it’s border, which is all it could have done.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:37 am“Genocides against its own citizens”? WTF do you call 1,000,000 dead Iraqis at our hands? I forgot, that’s collateral damage.
September 4th, 2008 at 9:48 amNice job, EugeneDebs.
September 4th, 2008 at 10:02 amEugeneDebs. If you’re still around, I read all your posts. May be some of the best, complete and concise rebuttals I’ve seen. It was a nice job.
September 4th, 2008 at 5:46 pmbackup 91
Thank you backup. I appreciate that.
September 4th, 2008 at 8:44 pm