Mayor, media silent on FBI raids of journalists and protesters at RNC.
By on Sep 3rd, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Mayor, media silent on FBI raids of journalists and protesters at RNC.
This weekend, Salon’s Glen Greenwald reported that protesters in Minneapolis in town for the Republican National Convention have been targeted by a series of police raids “involving teams of 25-30 officers in riot gear, with semi-automatic weapons drawn, entering homes of those suspected of planning protests, handcuffing and forcing them to lay on the floor, while law enforcement officers searched the homes, seizing computers, journals, and political pamphlets.”
So far, nearly 300 protesters and journalists have been arrested, but St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman has stayed silent. Click HERE to add your name to the 35,000 already on a letter to Coleman condemning the arrests and demanding the charges against journalists be dropped.
We now live in a country where ‘authority’ can take action based on the assumption that you might do something illegal.
The thought police have arrived.
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:24 pmrayman; that’s what the Nazis in Germany did in 1933. They called it ‘preventative detention’. The round-up of political enemies on the basis that they might commit a crime in the future, but have not yet done so at the time of their arrest.
Welcome to the Fascist States of Amerika.
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:28 pmI know a lot of Obama people will watch out of curiosity I plan on not watching.
Quick Vote
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:29 pmDo you plan to watch Gov. Sarah Palin’s address to the GOP convention?
Yes 47% 41642
No 53% 46349
Total Votes: 87991
http://www.cnn.com
raynman Says:
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We now live in a country where ‘authority’ can take action based on the assumption that you might do something illegal.
The thought police have arrived.
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:24 pm
The GOP , for all their blathering on the “liberal elite” in Hollywood , sure love to use particulars that emerge from that neck of the woods , without batting an eyelash.
1st it was the TV show “24″ ; now it’s “Minority Report”…..
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:29 pmWere those St. Paul Gestapo trained in Eastern Europe before they were deployed to the streets of St. Paul?
Just wondering.
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:33 pmCharges be dropped? WTF? The police need to be arrested on criminal charges of abusing authority. There is absolutely no excuse for arresting someone without a clear crime committed, especially when the charges are fake like at the DNC. This mayor needs to unconditionally fire any police officer guilty of any kind of violence against a person and let him rot in jail awaiting his court date. Dropped charges… Heh. Only with adequate compensation would I accept a dropped charge after being tortured in a 5′x5′ cage for an entire night.
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:35 pmEastern Europe,,,, you mean Russia?
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:35 pmUSA!…USA!…USSA!…USSR!…USSR!….
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:36 pmThe shape of things to come ? Scary times in the land of Bu$h .
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:39 pmdandbrew Says:
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Eastern Europe,,,, you mean Russia?
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
No
Russia is the country that just made your moronic simian hero look like the punk that he’s always been……….
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:39 pmMinority Report? It’s a small step from preemptive war to preemptive police against undesirables (however that is defined).
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:39 pmJust wait until they’re beating down your door dandbrew.
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:42 pmThe crime at the DNC was shooting pictures of Democratic Senators and their rich lobbyist benefactors. At least an ABC producer got arrested for such.
The press fared badly again at the RNC with Amy Goodman’s bizarre arrest.
It will be interesting to watch the follow up on both story lines.
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:44 pmgiven the fact that we are experiencing true fascism, think progress has been notably silent as well…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:47 pmHow do they even know without spying? WTF?
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:48 pmprofmarcus Says:
given the fact that we are experiencing true fascism, think progress has been notably silent as well…
Yeah, that must be why TP didn’t put this thread up, because they are being silent.
**eyes rolling**
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:49 pmFollow up? I think that’s officially scurrilous and impolite. The media can’t just go around ‘following up on things’ all willy nilly. Where will it end?
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:50 pm“Free press”? No
“Free assembly”? No
“Free speech”? No
Tell me again, what “freedoms” are “they” supposed to hate us for?
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:50 pmIt’s just safer to assume that every republican is a facist who hates our freedoms.
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:50 pmWarrantless Wiretapping of Phones and Email - Check
“Free Speech” zones - Check
Arresting and Detaining Journalists on Specious Charges - Check
Arresting and Detaining Lawyers and Officials of Watchdog Groups charged with preventing abuses of power - Check
TORTURE - Check
Indefinite Detention - Check
Endless War - Check
Police in Riot Gear beating up, tear-gassing, arresting, and detaining dissidents - Check
Preventative Detention - Check
Arrests based upon Political beliefs - Check
As someone stated above:
WELCOME, TO THE FASCIST STATES OF AMERIKA
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:52 pmYou can be certain “a full investigation” will be forthcoming: here’s the outcome before it begins: exoneration of all law enforcement that participated in this egregious, heinous act.
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:55 pmYeah, “they” hate us for our “freedoms”… what damn freedoms?
Talk about being like North Korea. I heard they passed a law outlawing the gathering of more than five people. Oh, wait, that was in Thailand. Or was it?
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:56 pmSounds like Chicago, 1968. I do not like this at all. What about the Bill of Rights?
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:56 pmimagine the budget for all those costumes!
.
ed interviewed the mayor of st.paul yesterday… he was regretful of this show… “come to st.paul!” he said…
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:59 pmZeddie; I resent that! We do NOT all look the same.
I am old(50s anyways), long hair, unshaven, etc, etc, etc,
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:00 pmbut St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman has stayed silent.
i must be mistaken… checking…
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:01 pmZed Lefflin - you hit the nail on the head brother.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:01 pmZed Lefflin Says:
there REALLY easy to spot in a group of normal people…
You mean normal people, who can spell and use correct English?
Why hasn’t this idiot troll been flagged off the island yet?
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:05 pmi can’t find the name on ed’s site - must’ve been the other mayor, of minneapolis…
so, maybe THIS is what they had in mind with “recreate 68″…
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:06 pmHey Zed,
By your post above, I am taking it that you watched the DNC speeches. Right?
Right?
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:12 pmIf I was one of the arrested journalists, I would not want to have the charges dropped. I would want to go to trial and make the trial a media circus. Since when did it become a crime to plan a demonstration or demonstrate in this country?
And shame on the MSM for ignoring this. They certainly covered the 100 people who were arrested at the Democratic convention. This is a much bigger story and they are ignoring it.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:12 pmMary Magdelyn Says:
I know a lot of Obama people will watch out of curiosity I plan on not watching.
I tried watching some of the convention last night but it made me nauseous so I had to turn it off.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:14 pmWhat happened to reasonable cause to search ? What is it they (police) are looking for ? Those of you supporters of mccain, if it were not for those of us protesting Vietnam you would be in Iraq because of a draft. You big brave repubs who scream for war from your dorm room. And if by some chance mccain gets back in you will be looking at a draft for his 100 year war.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:17 pmI tried to watch and it was so boring, and lieberman just droned on and on. Again how come so many seats are vacant ?
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:18 pmhttp://muckraker-gg.blogspot.com/ 2008/ 06/ vidal-us-isnt-republic-anymore.html
Complaining on this blog is useless and will change nothing.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:19 pmThe problem with your “logic”, Zed, is that the GOP lost all credibility the second they changed their tune on Iraq. The first time.
Since then, rather than admit their errors and seeking to fix them, they have merely added insult to injury with their pathetic excuses.
The only way anyone with an (R) after their name will deserve my attention is if the GOP punishes the guilty from within. And anyone who adopts any other attitude is just another enemy of Law and Logic with nothing relevant to say.
And as for Ms. Palin? She’s been proven to be bat-scat crazy by every public utterance. Scorn is the only response she would ever elicit from me.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:19 pmohhh TP. Once again you take a page out of the media matters playbook and tell only part of the truth.
Here is what those so called peaceful protestors are doing…
http://www.cnbc.com/id/26497298/for/cnbc
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:21 pmGOP delegates attacked by protesters
ST. PAUL, Minn. - Protesters attacked delegates, smashed windows, punctured car tires and threw bottles Monday, a violent counterpoint to an otherwise peaceful anti-war march at the Republican National Convention. Police wielding pepper spray arrested at least 56 people.
It is very interesting how slow TP is on the uptake. Amy Goodman and two of her producers were arrested almost two days ago. That story of outragous police abuse of their power in St. Paul, Minn in front of the Republican National Convention hall showed up almost immediately on several progressive blogs. Why does TP insist on dragging its heels on protecting our Bill of Rights?
Remember, it’s Sarah’s way or the Alaskan highway.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:22 pmLikewise Bilbo. I wanted to watch a little of David Brooks trying to be enthusiastic about Theocracy Gal but, I tuned in just in time to hear the current First Bimbo babbling about “new jobs” and “he’s kept us safe since 9/11″. There isn’t a strong spirit known to man that could induce me to swallow such pap.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:24 pmTim43,
So you are a proponent of “collective punishment”? Are individuals in the Republican vision for America responsible for stranger’s actions?
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:27 pmHere is some more info on what these so called peaceful protestors are doing… As you will see, these left wing loons are attacking people as old as 80.
Members of the Connecticut delegation said they were attacked by protesters when they got off their bus near the Xcel Center, KMSP-TV reported. Delegate Rob Simmons told the station that a group of protesters came toward his delegation and tried to rip the credentials off their necks and sprayed them with a toxic substance that burned their eyes and stained their clothes.
One 80-year-old member of the delegation had to be treated for injuries, and several other delegates had to rinse their eyes and clothing, the station reported.
SO, I ASK YOU, WHO IS IN THE WRONG?
I am greatful that we have a police force that will protect and serve. If these stupid punks kept there protests peaceful, there would not be a problem. But, because the decided to attack rnc delegates, they are getting what they deserve.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:28 pm“But, because the decided to attack rnc delegates, they are getting what they deserve.”
Yes, if true, THESE very few people responsible for THESE actions do deserve punishment, but what about the raids on the houses of people who hadn’t done anything at all? You’re still not getting it, are you?
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:31 pmZed Lefflin Says:
up99…absolutely…I watched BO with KO and what a time we had togeather…..especially at the end…both Keith and I could not believe that in this time, in this day, in this country we as a people could produce a human being that had received his heavenly message through the divinity before our very eyes. …..
Uhh, Zed, you were mixing up BO with Dubya, as he has ADMITTED many times to get his directions right from god his-ownself.
Easy mistake to make.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:31 pmWe hated the Nazis so much we had to become them. Fascisti!!!!
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:33 pmDoc Rock Says:
We hated the Nazis so much we had to become them. Fascisti!!!!
Hey Doc,
Those Stormtroopers weren’t Nazis, they were just BlackWater, doing what their CiC, Darth Cheney, commended them to do.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:35 pmAh. Ya gotta love the desperation of the Reichwhiners. Boo freakin hoo!
America is excited about electing a candidate who just might be able to redress some of the disgrace Bushco has brought upon our nation and the once honored traditions which made us great. While Flippy McSpin and the Bible Bimbo only inspire those who’s IQ is exceeded by their latitude. (NOTE: Even the high latitudes of Alaska make for pitifully low IQ’s.)
And then the trolls add to the humor with the bizarre implication that popularity makes a candidate “suspect” in some way. Hahahahahahahahaha.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:35 pm666lattes Says:
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Tim43,
So you are a proponent of “collective punishment”? Are individuals in the Republican vision for America responsible for stranger’s actions?
I am a proponent of peaceful protests and public order. These anarchists are acting like neither. The police are charged with protecting innocent civilians from this mob and they are doing as much as they can, outnumbered as they are.
Because these punk anarchists are as hard to spot as terrorists in Iraq, then I agree with the tactic of keeping all of them as far away from innocent civilians as humanly possible.
The anarchists started it. The great police of St Paul will finish it.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:35 pmUh, no to the question “will I watch the speeche’s by ms. plum crazy”… I will wait for the net recording’s and written word of the many talented poster’s here instead…With the exception of the troll terd’s ofcourse…
After reading her bio every where I am reminded of a great saying my old grannie alway’s said ” pretty is as pretty doe’s”….Make’s ms plumb crazy just another reich winged nut case to me…Careful ms, mcnut’s and mr. plumb crazy it may be another new wife for the old codger, he doe’s like em younger and prettier…LOL./P. B. & J
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:41 pmSorry Timmy, you still don’t get it. That is called willfull ignorance.
But carry on little guy, carry that dirty water. I promise you a sore ass on November 3rd, this election will be the one that kicks you pseudo Americans to the curb.
I imagine you have woken up to a sore ass before though.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:42 pmTim43 Says:
The anarchists started it. The great police of St Paul will finish it.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:35 pm
_______
By “the anarchists,” do you mean all those people who hate government and want to destroy all government institutions and replace them with private entities?
Cause somehow I don’t think the St. Paul police will be arresting the RNC delegates any time soon. Good idea, though!
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:43 pmGlenn Greenwald of Salon has serious information on what is happening in St Paul right now. This is more than trying to quell obnoxious activity. Breaking down doors without search warrants, taking journals, computers, arresting anyone even asking for search warrants. One person standing beside the road delibertly pepper sprayed, Donna Brazille pepper sprayed. An environmental group thrown off a bus, the bus taken. Some arrested for conspiracy to riot. What the heck is that ? Pictures show more than just local police in full riot gear and marching.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:45 pmEveryone protested China’s restrictions on news but here in St Paul is Germany under Hitler. My gosh what is happening !
666lattes Says:
——————————————————————————–
“But, because the decided to attack rnc delegates, they are getting what they deserve.”
Yes, if true, THESE very few people responsible for THESE actions do deserve punishment, but what about the raids on the houses of people who hadn’t done anything at all? You’re still not getting it, are you?
I fully get it. Once again TP and Media Matters did not tell you the entire truth.
Anarchists planned to throw poison at delegates…
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/ 2008/ 09/ anarchists-leftists-planned-to-kidnap.html
Anarchists planned kidnapping delegates…
http://www.twincities.com/rnc/ci_10364580
Bus attacked
http://beltwayblips.com/ story/ bus_attack_in_st_paul_anarchists_attack_rnc_busses/
The RNC Welcoming Committee’s plans
http://www.weaselzippers.net/ blog/ 2008/ 09/ rnc-police-investigating-peace-protesters-who-planned-to-kidnap-delegates-attack-cops-with-urine.html
You need to get your news from balanced media. With so many of these fringe groups operating with the purpose of harming innocent people, I expect the police to be overly cautious. The police are protecting people’s lives. These punk anarchists could care less about life over their beliefs.
Sound familiar? Doesn’t Al-Queda act like this?
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:46 pmnanlichi,
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:46 pmThe Election is on the 4th. Vote early, but not too early.
Stupid trolls. No one is suggesting that those who break the law should not be subject to arrest. But you, and the MSM, have failed to note those innocent people who’s homes were raided before the convention, or any protests, had begun.
These were preemptive strikes against people who had done nothing but apply for permits, or otherwise announced an intention, to stage a protest.
If you stupid trolls had a single patriotic red blood cell in your bodies? You would be outraged, disgusted, and very concerned about the implications of these developments.
But hey! Preemptive strikes against those who have done no harm is the new mantra of the Reichwhiners. Sadly, they won’t realize how wrong they are until their doors are kicked in, in the middle of the night, for no legitimate reason.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:46 pmThankfully Independent Journalists are there to report what our wonderful (not) media refuses to report. And you mccain people want 4 more years of this ? Next it will be your home invaded and you will wish you had stood up for Civil Rights.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:47 pmJohn Henry Says:
How do they even know without spying? WTF?
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:48 pm
_______
They are spying.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/3/headlines#6
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:47 pmWorth the reminder. Any of these ring a bell? All of them, perhaps?
14 Points Of Fascism:
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism.
5. Rampant sexism.
6. A controlled mass media.
7. Obsession with national security.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together.
9. Power of corporations protected.
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated.
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption.
14. Fraudulent elections.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:50 pmWonder how many protesters that “attacked” rnc delegates were actually protesters and not rnc plants. It has happened before, plants overturning wheelchairs of our Vietnam vets when they just wanted a turn to speak. History can repeat itself when not corrected.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:50 pmThanks Walt, I would have had a long wait. Probably be at the head of the line though…..
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:50 pmRe-create ‘68
1968-Chicago police riot on protesters, journalists, and innocent bystanders alike.
2008-St Paul police riot on protesters, journalists, and innocent bystanders alike.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:51 pmI too am a bit disappointed in TP for not bringing this up earlier… I posted a comment and sent them a link to this story when it broke on slashdot on Monday. The MSM should be all over this, not to mention TP and everyone else.
Unfortunately, I think the press has become just another advertising platform.
When the repubs talking heads go an about Palins record of fighting corruption and uses the bridge to nowhere as an example I have yet to hear a SINGLE “journalist” respond with “what about the fact that she lobbied and supported it until it was a national joke?” The reason we are where we are is simply because the media is afraid to call balderdash… because then the politicians will stop talking to them (note mcains reaction to tucker tool being stumped on coming up with a single decision Palin has made re the national guard.)
How much coverage has Thompson’s speech where he takes Obamas comments so far out of context that Thompsons statement becomes a full on lie gotten?
Has anyone else noticed that the Repubs talking heads answer every single question asked of them by repeating the same answer they just gave, regardless of whether or not it is relevant to the question? Has anyone also noticed that nine times out of ten they aren’t challenged even a little by whoever is asking the question?
Does anyone actually think that Campbell Brown’s question was either sexist, irrelevant, or over the line? Yet McCain boycotts CNN because Tucker Tool can’t answer a simple question.
Which brings us to the single biggest reason the American people, as a whole, are uninformed and continue to put up with this s**t is because the press doesn’t have the cojones to actually say “what you just said isn’t true and here’s why” in direct response and so it goes uncontested, and therefore is accepted as the truth. The closest they get is some fine print story on page three that discredits what was said without reference to the original comment(or). At that point it takes a lot of effort, memory, luck (you have to be familiar with the original statement) and critical thinking to put two and two together… Simply because they are afraid that they will lose access to the politicians. The press need to get back to work… your job is to expose the TRUTH, regardless of which side of politics it comes from. If someone holds the politicians accountable, then politicians will start to adhere to their values and do what they say, and stand behind their actions. Those who do, no matter how whacked out their ideals may be, will have no reason to fear the press.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:51 pmTim43 Says:
These punk anarchists could care less about life over their beliefs.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:46 pm
_________
Sounds a lot like the RNC delegates. When was the last time a group of protestors invaded a country for no reason and caused the deaths of 4,200 Americans?
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:51 pmTim43,
“I am a proponent of peaceful protests and public order.”
No, you really aren’t. You are more than likely biased against people with “left-leaning” beliefs and you get some kind of glee and satisfaction in seeing them get beaten up by cops. There’s really no need to lie about it. It dilutes your message.
What the “anarchists” have supposedly done is wrong and most of the protestors disagree with those kinds of actions and take great care to shun that type of behavior.
There is, however, a recent history of the police posing as “anarchists” to intentionally provoke protestors to violence and other illegal acts. I’m not sure if that is the case here, but I am very suspicious.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:52 pmnanlichi Says:
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Sorry Timmy, you still don’t get it. That is called willfull ignorance.
Far from it nanlichi. I completely get it. Nice try though. This is protection from anti-American’s who are bent on harming innocent civilians.
If those punks did not attempt to harm innocent civilians, the police would have left them alone.
Ever wonder why this was not an issue at the DNC last week? Because the republicans are far more mature than the left wing nut jobs in the democratic party. Republicans can debate the issues without throwing a tissy fit during a supposed “peaceful” protest.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:52 pmhttp://www.liveleak.com/view?i=006_1220377466
At some point you have to promote law and order.
The peaceful protest was sabotaged by the anarchists. It not the fault of the RNC or the police. It’s the folly of thinking that if your peaceful protest is producing results fast enough, violence is in order.
The establishment will always use that to discount the whole movement.
The weatherman tried it. It didn’t work then either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization)
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:52 pmtexaslady, that sounds like KKKarl’s (I found a bug in my office)tactics.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:53 pmUh, Zed reeks of Billy Hill.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:55 pmLooks like ol’ Zed is ‘ded’ today. Got blipped off the screen.
Heh Heh
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:55 pmtexaslady Says:
Wonder how many protesters that “attacked” rnc delegates were actually protesters and not rnc plants. It has happened before, plants overturning wheelchairs of our Vietnam vets when they just wanted a turn to speak. History can repeat itself when not corrected.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:50 pm
______
I wonder that, too. I also wonder how many of the “violent plans” Timmah mentioned above were suggested by police infiltrators. We know that they had people in at least one of the “anarchist” groups. And they probably work a lot like the trolls here: they show up at a peace activist meeting, talk about throwing urine at cops and slashing tires, then report back to their superiors that people at the meeting were talking about throwing urine at cops and slashing tires.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:56 pmWhy do we complain? Some F&&^% idiot elected these pricks into office….now live with them.
MAYBE THIS IS A GOOD TIME TO GET INVOLVED WITH POLITICS OR YOU MAY FIND YOURSELF IN A JAIL CELL FOR THINKING OF SPEAKING UP.
GET BACK THE GOVERNMENT BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT GET YOU…FOOLS.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:58 pmIt not the fault of the RNC or the police
Amy Goodman was MANHANDLED and unlawfully arrested for inquiring on the whereabouts of her producers.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:00 pmTimmy,
“involving teams of 25-30 officers in riot gear, with semi-automatic weapons drawn, entering homes of those suspected of planning protests, handcuffing and forcing them to lay on the floor, while law enforcement officers searched the homes, seizing computers, journals, and political pamphlets.”
I suppose you read this before spewing your opinion, are you saying that you are ok with search and seizure by the police based on a “suspicion”?
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, you and your ilk were and are ok with a preemptive invasion based on trumped up suspicions of WMD, why would an American citizen be any different?
You people disgust me to no end. Torture is ok, spying on citizens is ok, secret government is ok, lying to the people is ok, preemptive war is ok…..
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:01 pm200 out of 10,000 is 2%. Why tar the other 98% with the brush of anarchists or violent criminals?
TP is worried about the stain from that small percentage, both at the DNC and RNC. You’d think they’d search out the Code Pink lady for an update after her release, maybe talk to the ABC reporter.
Centrist democrats don’t want to be tarred with the angry left brush. So why reach out to Amy Goodman and company?
They also don’t want the light to shine on Democratic influence peddling. The media becomes the enemy when it isn’t pushing either side’s talking points.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:02 pmHmmm. About three minutes of searching gleaned these gems from local news stories:
Mother of three injured in police raid. Police: “We are pretty sure it’s the wrong address”.
Three reporters injured in police custody.
Undercover operatives lead to pre-convention arrests. No charges filed.
Circuit Judge: Reporters to be held until the end of convention.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:02 pmbackup Says:
The peaceful protest was sabotaged by the anarchists. It not the fault of the RNC or the police. It’s the folly of thinking that if your peaceful protest is producing results fast enough, violence is in order.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:52 pm
_______
Prove that the peace activists organizing the protests are the ones instigating violence.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:03 pmTim43 Says:
“If those punks did not attempt to harm innocent civilians, the police would have left them alone.”
You do realize that these raids (what this post is addressing)took place before any protests don’t you? And that journalists were arrested and detained? Are you claiming that these journalists were harming innocent civilians or are you a proponent of collective punishment as I originally asked you?
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:03 pm64. Tim43 Says: If those punks did not attempt to harm innocent civilians, the police would have left them alone.
Pardon me while I laugh in your face! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:04 pmTim43 Says:
Ever wonder why this was not an issue at the DNC last week? Because the republicans are far more mature than the left wing nut jobs in the democratic party. Republicans can debate the issues without throwing a tissy fit during a supposed “peaceful” protest.
September 3rd, 2008 at 3:52 pm
_______
Um, all the protestors I saw at the DNC were liberals protesting the Democrats for abandoning the liberal wing of the party. How many of those protests were organized by conservatives?
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:05 pmFascists like Timmy sure don’t know a damn thing about the law, and their only view of order is is forcing their views on others.
You should be shipped off to the Hague for damaging the country you hate, Timmy, not here criticizing those simply adding flavor to the GOOP funeral. You’re not at liberty to do so.
“Law and order” and “GOP convention” simply don’t mesh well. Try “wanted.”
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:06 pmWe need to stop criminalizing free speech in this country.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:07 pmChickenhawk Timmy just called the souls of America “punks.”
Congrats. I hope mommy gets you an EVEN BIGGER tonka truck this Christmas. You’ve earned it, tough guy.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:10 pmtoasterhead. Supposed to be: if the peaceful resistance isn’t producing results fast enough…
Peaceful protesters weren’t involved, otherwise they weren’t peaceful.
The point is this. The peaceful avenues of resistance using the system we have in place will eventually yield the most benefit.
But, the sentiment that we’re going to resort to violence or other illegal avenues to right the wrongs; will generally backfire (I guess, all out revolution is the caveat). The establishment will use the illegality to dismiss the whole resistance.
I think the peaceful protestors were doing an admirable job. But, I think their efforts were sabotaged by the anarchists.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:11 pmDon’t look at the facts, Timmy. Just talk rough.
Timmy is a by-the-book piece of sh– ahem, conservative.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:13 pmBackup, it’s a damn shame the cops wound up arresting protesters who weren’t any way shape or form anarchists, isn’t it?
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:13 pmMcWars, ice water sprayed… all over keyboard. Not funny!
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:14 pmhilarious!
I think the peaceful protestors were doing an admirable job. But, I think their efforts were sabotaged by the anarchists.
The peaceful protestors had their computers and signs confiscated by SWAT teams while they were at a pizza party the night before the convention…
I think the peacful police officers are doing an admirable job. But I think there efforts are being sabotaged by over-zealous and over-eager pre-emptive tactics and violence…
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:15 pmWhat I’ve seen so far of the RNC: a bunch of rich, white, old people huddled inside an almost 1/3-empty convention hall, protected by a faceless wall of black-armored cops outside.
Says a lot about their party, dunnit?
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:16 pmUS’s government hates freedom and democracy!
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:17 pmConsidering that many of the guiding lights of the GOP, Rush in particular, called upon their minions to disrupt the political process and blame it on “libruls”? Is it not likely that some of these incidents are brought on by agent provocateurs? (cred to TeleMan)
Heck! Didn’t Dobson call out on his followers to pray for rain at the DNC? These ignorant/arrogant scum are still doing all in their power to remake American “Democracy” in the image of Imperial England, with a little extra dose of tyrannical theocracy. And if they actually understood history or philosophy they would realize just what a horrible idea that is. Alas, these people are so stupid that they won’t realize the car they are chasing has stopped until their knees smash into the bumper.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:17 pmbackup Says:
I think the peaceful protestors were doing an admirable job. But, I think their efforts were sabotaged by the anarchists.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:11 pm
________
And the police knew exactly who the anarchist groups were and what they were planning. So why are they sweeping up hundreds of innocent protestors and journalists?
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:18 pmThose of us that remember police tactics to quell protesters see a replay here. Why is it always the republicans that demand brute force and want to shut down independent thinking? Anyone else see a resemblence between skin heads and republicans, either believe with me or be beaten down.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:19 pmbackup Says:
I think the peaceful protestors were doing an admirable job. But, I think their efforts were sabotaged by the anarchists.
______________
Or the possible plants/infiltrators out to accomplish just this…
Saaaaay… you FINALLY ditched the bow tie… heh… but isn’t a smoking jacket & cravat a bit much, especially during the day?
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:19 pmThe LA Times Blog has a piece on Amy Goodman’s arrest:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/ washington/ 2008/ 09/ amy-goodman-arr.html
The AP did a story on it as they had a photographer arrested:
http://ap.google.com/ article/ ALeqM5hksHDv1i55R2qYI6dkmMm10uxZ0AD92UQ8TG0
Here’s the guy’s last photo before being arrested:
http://www.minnpost.com/ galleries/ ap_photographers_last_pre-arrest_shot_is_a_stunner/
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:21 pmThe arrests are made because of “conspiracy to riot “. Well I am thinking of rioting guess my door will be beaten in next. So, by thinking of questioning this government I am now a terriorist.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:21 pmThe sad thing is, this story is not contained within the USA… around the globe people can see what is happening. People can see and understand what is happening. They can remember the years of military dictatorships (Trained and financed by the USA) in their countries… North American are begining to feel what we felt for years…
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:24 pmHere’s more on the AP photographer who was arrested:
http://www.minnpost.com/ stories/ 2008/ 09/ 03/ 3320/ ap_photographers_last_pre-arrest_shot_is_a_stunner
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:27 pmDid the city, the mayor or the police force get any extra money from the Federal Government or the RNC? Has anyone reported or investigated this angle?
Something tells me that, if this is the case, they are going over the top with their “enforcement” simply to justify the cost to the benefactor.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:28 pmSarcopenapa Says:
The sad thing is, this story is not contained within the USA… around the globe people can see what is happening.
___________
Yeah… quite a legacy for Bu$hCo & the GOOP, huh?
These and the Abu Graib sex torture photos… for all posterity.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:31 pmGood that people around the globe see what is happening in St. Paul. It is a travesty and a mockery of all America used to stand for before this bush/cheney administration took over. Let the world see what will happen if mccain gets in, we will be a 3rd world country without any civil rights at all.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:33 pmTim43 Says:
ohhh TP. Once again you take a page out of the media matters playbook and tell only part of the truth.
Here is what those so called peaceful protestors are doing…
Amy Goodman wasn’t involved in that. The raids weren’t involved in quelling that. Get your eyes on the story here.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:33 pmOur sons and daughters have fought for freedom in Iraq what about here at home ? We are imprisoning people for thinking ! Every state in the Union should be protesting St.Paul’s Mayor.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:34 pmTime go check out Glen Greenwald at Salon if you really care to know both sides of what is happening, or are you too afraid it might open your mind.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:36 pmtexaslady Says:
——————————————————————————–
Those of us that remember police tactics to quell protesters see a replay here. Why is it always the republicans that demand brute force and want to shut down independent thinking? Anyone else see a resemblence between skin heads and republicans, either believe with me or be beaten down.
Could it be that Republicans don’t stage violent protests against the democrats? Therefore the democrats don’t need to call on the police for protection?
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:36 pmbackup Says:
I guess you think Amy Goodman, her producer and cameraman, who got arrested and beat up by the cops were anarchists too, just pretending to be journalists.
Too bad for the cops, they saved the tape before the cops could confiscate it. They plan on suing.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:40 pm“Could it be that Republicans don’t stage violent protests against the democrats?”
Yeah, they only make death threats from afar…
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:41 pmRepugnicants have cops with McCain bumber stickers on their motorcycles. At least in Denver they did!
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:41 pmTim43 Says:
Could it be that Republicans don’t stage violent protests against the democrats? Therefore the democrats don’t need to call on the police for protection?
The Recreate 68 republinuts tried to incite violence in Denver, but they were too few and no one listened to them.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:46 pmWayne Says:
——————————————————————————–
The Recreate 68 republinuts tried to incite violence in Denver, but they were too few and no one listened to them.
Actually, there were too few of them because most republicans have jobs and real lives. They simply don’t have time to stage meaningless protests.
If these anarchist punks did not provoke the St Paul police, there would not be a problem.
These punks provoked the police and the police reacted. Now the punks are pointing the finger at the police? This sounds like a common sibling issue I fondly remember when growing up.
1 Little brother hits big brother.
2 Big brother hits little brother back.
3 Little brother cries to mommy and daddy while pointing his finger at big brother.
4 Big brother gets in trouble.
5 Little brother gets an ice cream cone.
Sound familiar? Little brother (the anarchist punks) provoked this. Now they are crying for attention. You folks are falling it.
September 3rd, 2008 at 4:59 pmTime - There were NO protests ! Police or whoever were beating people standing at the side of the road ! Police were invading homes without search warrants and arresting people who asked for a search warrant. What don’t you understand ?
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:00 pmI think that Republicriminal foreign policy can be classified as “violent protests”. The GOP “protested” the ownership of Mideastern oil to the detriment of World peace. Why march at home when you can bomb the crap out of “unBelievers”?
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:00 pmJournalists are not protesting, attorneys are not protesting, camera men are not protesting. Yet are being handcuffed and arrested, held for 36 hours without charges.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:03 pm“Why are our policemen acting like Nazis? Google The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.” Learn about treachery in our own society.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:05 pmWTF part of “detained and released WITHOUT BEING CHARGED” can’t you understand?
Did a couple dozen people get rowdy? Yep.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:06 pmDid one guy allegedly have Molotov cocktails? Allegedly.
Did the police arrest and commit violence against people who are completely innocent of any wrongdoing? Yes. To the tune of several hundred people who have been deprived of their constitutional right to peaceful assembly and freedom of speech. And it’s on effing tape!
58 Texas Lady,
I also wonder - knowing the way KKK-
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:07 pmKarl has operated in the past - were they attacked or was a person holding a sign an obvious proof of assault ? Did the Protestors stand on the sidewalk and not move out of the way of the king ?
The media is in bed with the neo-nazi gop.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:09 pmTim43 Says:
Sound familiar? Little brother (the anarchist punks) provoked this. Now they are crying for attention. You folks are falling it.
Well aren’t you the good little German.
Journalists are not anarchist punks yet were arrested filming the police’s heavy handed tactics.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:10 pmNazi f_ckwit.
The war on terror should be directed at the real terrorists, and that is the rethughlican party and the Boosh administration. That is fact…prove it wrong…poor judgement and unconstitutional actions. Vote the bastards out forever!
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:11 pmhttp://www.liveleak.com/view?i=006_1220377466
This doesn’t look like peaceful assembly to me.
I think it’s possible that police confused peaceful protestors with anarchists but if the protest becomes violent - the job of the police becomes more difficult.
The agent provocatuer charge sounds plausible, but you’d have to have to be able to tie the instigators to those that oppose the protestors for it to have any credibility.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:12 pmFolks, stop with the hysteria. Do you really believe that Amy Goodman is completely innocent here? And to call her a journalist is questionable. She is more like a liberal commentator.
Lets review the other side of the story, shall we?
http://www.startribune.com/ politics/ national/ conventions/ 27760444.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUHK:uUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU
Media people doing your job vs. Obstructing the POLICE?
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:13 pmToo bad Amy thought her credentials as a reporter/photographer over ruled the Police need to maintain order. If you want to cover the news, stay back and cover the news, but get in the face of Riot Police during a Riot then get your butt thrown in jail. Too bad they let her and her cronies out. They obstructed the legal process of the Police and the Police did their job. Quit your whining and pay your fine. Learn to stay out of the way of the Police and let them do their job. Congrat’s to the Police for a job well done.
Sorry Tim43, it’s:
1) Photographer takes picture
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:14 pm2) Gets tackled from behind
3) Roughed up and held while
4) Police decide what to charge him with
5) Nobody gets an ice cream cone
Tim43 Says:
“They simply don’t have time to stage meaningless protests.”
I thought you were a proponent of peaceful protests… is anything you say true?
You have been de-bunked several times over yet you continue to repeat yourself and are becoming slightly more unhinged with each post. Why don’t you just admit that those in the wrong are the only one’s guilty and deserving of punishment by the law? What’s so hard about that?
What you don’t get is that these people are standing up for your freedom of speech as well as ours.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:16 pmTim43 Says:
Folks, stop with the hysteria. Do you really believe that Amy Goodman is completely innocent here? And to call her a journalist is questionable. She is more like a liberal commentator.
You are really full of sh!t.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:17 pmTime for people to start flagging your nazi a$$
If the police have people on the inside gathering intelligence, they also have the capability for one of their actors to incite violence.
The need for evidence of agent provocateurs is critical., but obviously will take time for such to surface.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:18 pmWho are the real bad guys??
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:18 pmThese liberal whack job protestors say the Republicans/Conservatives are the bad guys?? You NEVER hear about republicans going to a Democratic convention and burning or breaking things, throwing nails in the streets and making urine bombs. It is always these whack job liberals going to Republican gatherings and making trouble. So who is really the bad guys? If you want to know, just watch the news or read the paper and you will see. These people have no good agenda, they just want to cause trouble and heartache for decent americans who follow the rules of a decent society. If they want to act like animals, than treat them like the poop flinging monkeys that they are (I apologize to any monkeys who were offended by me comparing these dirtbags to them). Throw them in a cage and put them on display at the zoo.
Tim43 Says:
“And to call her a journalist is questionable. She is more like a liberal commentator.”
Democracy Now is a much better source of news and current events that affect Americans than most of the MSM put together. When was the last time Bill O’Reilly or Rush Limbaugh were out reporting on any issue of any kind? I’ll wait.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:20 pmTim43 Says:
Folks, stop with the hysteria. Do you really believe that Amy Goodman is completely innocent here? And to call her a journalist is questionable. She is more like a liberal commentator.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:13 pm
______
Amy Goodman is one of the few actual journalists left in this country. She is completely innocent here - two of her producers got beaten up by police after being forced off a public street into a parking lot. When she arrived to intervene, she was arrested.
This is media intimidation. Plain and simple. This is the kind of shit I’d expect in Colombia or Syria - not the United States.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:22 pmI really like this site.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:24 pmI read it all of the time.
I have even occasionally posted.
I have a question to all of you that think the police spying on these groups was wrong.
If we could have infiltrated the group responsible for 911 and stopped it from happening do you think that would have been wrong?
Do you think we should have waited until it happened because no crime had been committed yet?
You are not in St. Paul.
I am.
You have no idea what is going on.
I have just read the search warrant.
One of those arrested in the raids is sitting in jail because he had the materials to make napalm.
Those ingredients are not something just found lying around the house.
Should the police have waited until he used it hurting maybe killing several people, maybe more?
Tim43 Says:
“You NEVER hear about republicans going to a Democratic convention and burning or breaking things, throwing nails in the streets and making urine bombs.”
No, they just send their thugs down to FL to intimidate vote tabulators with the intent to disrupt and influence the results of a National election.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:25 pmsdunes Says:
“One of those arrested in the raids is sitting in jail because he had the materials to make napalm.”
link?
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:28 pmsdunes Says:
I really like this site.
I read it all of the time.
I have even occasionally posted.
Funny thing is I have been posting here since TP opened its web site. I have never seen you post before.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:28 pmWhat other names did you use?
How dense can one be? Here’s the deal:
The mob violence of one group does not excuse institutional violence against innocent third parties. Those innocent third parties include people who did nothing but announce an intent to protest and accredited, identified, members of the press.
And, I might add, that the violence of a group does not excuse previous wrong actions by police. And it sure as Hell doesn’t excuse the physical assault, before the convention or ANY protests, of persons at “the wrong address”.
This whole disgusting incident is, perhaps, the strongest indictment yet against those who would rule by force. It’s wrong. Always. And anyone foolish enough to put up with it, while we still have a choice, is anathema to a free society.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:29 pmOne of those arrested in the raids is sitting in jail because he had the materials to make napalm.
Those ingredients are not something just found lying around the house.
Not lying around the house but I have often seen Gasoline and Petroleum Jelly lying around garages…
However, I believe that if the police had intelligence that this one (1) person you refer to was a danger then they should arrest that one (1) person, I would agree that constitutes ‘doing their job’
When they start breaking up pizza parties, stealing laptops, arresting journalists and pepper spraying indiscriminately, that’s when I stop calling it policing and start calling it illegal intimidation…
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:34 pmUm. The guy who, allegedly, had the materials for a molotov cocktail was identified as a threat in early July. He was, indeed, arrested in the first sweep. So were dozens of people who had no affiliation with him or any group he was associated with. THESE PEOPLE WERE TARGETED BECAUSE THEY ANNOUNCED THAT THEY WERE GOING TO EXERCISE THEIR RIGHTS. And, in at least one case, they injured people at the wrong address.
BTW, I am in St. Paul and these actions don’t surprise me much. They do disgust me though.
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:37 pmAnd while we’re on the subject of “anarchists” I must point out that “anarchist group” is close to being a theoretical impossibility. And “these kind of anarchist groups”, as they are called by a local Reichradio host, is a rather absurd thing to consider.
The fact is that “anarchists” are, historically, very small groups or even loners. Most “anarchist” movements are no such thing, merely the opposition to a particular government.
Oddly enough, there is an actual candidate who comes closer to the definition of “anarchist” than most of those arrested in St. Paul. That candidate is Ms. Palin who, according to reports, is affiliated with an Alaskan separatist group.
Leave it to the GOOPERS to try to convince the nation that a woman who, allegedly, supports dissolving the union should be entrusted to protect it.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:03 pmI haven’t read it yet, but here’s a link about the napalm:
http://www.wnbc.com/ investigations/ 17382666/ detail.html
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:10 pmsdunes. I think you make a good point.
What are the police suppose to do? Let the protestors who make threats carry them out?
If there was an attack that killed a few dozen, wouldn’t we be asking why they didn’t act on the intel?
We need to preserve the right for peaceful protests, but we also need to keep an open mind that authorities are charged with public safety.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:14 pmWhat are the police suppose to do?
Again backup, no one is arguing the point that this man should be arrested… this has happened and the alleged attack was prevented, the police did their jobs in this instance.
It is NOT their job to arrest journalists, make mass indescriminate arrests, or to make pre-emtive raids at protest meetings- all of this has also happened, the police did not do their jobs in these instances… they acted to intimidate- and that’s un-American and illegal.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:22 pmIf you want law and order, then lets start at the top and arrest the war criminals who still occupy offices of power in this country. The poor cops are doing the bidding of their masters. Some actually look a little guilty as they raid peaceful houses.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:39 pmA gentleman, claiming to be a MN Highway Patrolman, called a local radio show and said, “It’s the biggest screw up he’s ever heard of and there are so many conflicting orders that no one has any clear idea what they are supposed to be doing”.
I would say that there’s plenty of evidence for that opinion.
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:46 pmOn May 4, 1970, the Republican Party (and many of those are still in the Bush/Cheney Administration) learned that they can kill the youth of this nation with impunity under the guise of law and order. Nothing has changed in 38 years. All the BS above about justifying this glaringly unconstitutional behavior is made null and void by the massive fines, court costs, firings, and payouts made by NY and MD after their law enforcement agencies exhibited similar behavior. Los Angeles just keeps paying and paying, thinking that millions of dollars of taxpayer money is a reasonable exchange given the vast numbers of civil rights violations they perpetrate every single day. MN will eventually pay out millions upon millions (with St Paul and Ramsey County bearing the brunt of it) and shrug their shoulders knowing that for them it was worth it to bash head and violate rights. Welcome to the 21st century militarized (roid raging) police state.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:03 pmbelac. you’ve got a point. But, when the violence ensues, it becomes a gray area. We expect the police to do the right thing. But, in the confusion of violence, doing the right thing or knowing the appropriate action at any given moment, is more difficult.
We expect our officials to act appropriately. But, we should have some empathy that when things turn violent, their duties become much more difficult.
And the jeopardy exists that if they act too forcefully, their actions will be questioned - but if they don’t act forcefully enough, their actions will be questioned.
Much easier to be judging them from the safety of my computer keyboard, then responsible for the safety and security of the public on the streets of an angry mob.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:09 pmYou are really stretching the envelope b-kup. I’ll try to spell it out one more time.
The first acts of violence in this chain of events were perpetrated by police, against innocent people, BEFORE A SINGLE PROTESTER TOOK THE STREET! Many of those people were not targeted because they belonged to, allegedly dangerous, subversive groups. They were targeted because they had identified themselves by announcing their plans to protest.
And the police continued their preemptive raids despite the fact that the only persons they have produced evidence against were in custody from day one.
This discussion is not about the reasonable arrest of people who were identified as dangerous or acting lawlessly. This is about the separate, but related, abuses of power directed against my neighbors for the expressed intent of preventing “embarrassing” incidents.
And it damn sure had nothing to do with public safety. Public safety was served by the arrest of the one person who allegedly acted on his violent threats and the police presence on the street. And it ended when they beat people who were not breaking any law.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:26 pmBut, when the violence ensues, it becomes a gray area. We expect the police to do the right thing. But, in the confusion of violence, doing the right thing or knowing the appropriate action at any given moment, is more difficult.
Alright backup… but what about the pre-emptive raids? Where was the violence there?
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:26 pmWhat about the photographers and producers who are arrested?
Surely it’s not to much to ask of police to seperate the journalists from the violent protester when the journalists are wearing credentials, shouting ‘I’m a journalist!’ and asking police NOT to arrest them?
Surely the police are able to make that leap even during stressful and violent protests…
Allright. belac, you seem very reasonable. And pete, you’re adament and I’ve been swayed by you before. I look into it some more and formulate a more complete opinion.
On the surface, it looked to me like the police had legitimate reasoning for their actions.
But, I’m with you. I don’t want the police trampling on legitimate free speech rights.
If they have intel that poses a safety concern, I’m on board. But, I’m not on board, if they are squelching non-violent dissent.
I’ll take a harder look at it.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:33 pmSo, migrate to the sidewalks, then collapse around the attackers. Then pummel the into submission. There are ways to thwart attacks.
September 3rd, 2008 at 7:51 pmsdunes Says:
I have a question to all of you that think the police spying on these groups was wrong.
If we could have infiltrated the group responsible for 911 and stopped it from happening do you think that would have been wrong?
Do you think we should have waited until it happened because no crime had been committed yet?
You are not in St. Paul.
I am.
You have no idea what is going on.
I have just read the search warrant.
One of those arrested in the raids is sitting in jail because he had the materials to make napalm.
Those ingredients are not something just found lying around the house.
Should the police have waited until he used it hurting maybe killing several people, maybe more?
SO, let us tke this to ultmate extreme. Should they be allowed to kill the person because they have “intel” (lets remember WMD in Iraq please)
If we could have influenced Atta’s mother, should we have influenced her to get an abortion, or should be have given her a forced abortion?
Your logic is ridiculous on its face. It is the stupid ticking time bomb logic.
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:00 pmIF there IS a ticking time bomb, then the person that decides to take matters into their own hands and BREACH the law to server “the greater good” as they see it, SHOULD be able to rely on a court and a judge to side with them, WHEN they are brought before the bar of justice to answer for their breach of law.
WE SHOULD NOT lower the bar of the law to allow unlawful searches, seizures, or pre-emptive arrests BECAUSE it MAY be in the public’s greater good. THAT IS EXACTLY what the founding fathers had tried to legislate against.
Read the document, it is called the Constituition.
Sign of the times folks. War comes home, always.
This is nothing new, we just haven’t had it in our faces for a while.
backup wants to say the police were right. Were they right at Kent State? How much force is too much backup?
I got news for ya, if things don’t change then this will just get worse. This is a product of bad governance.
When you pit our police against our citizens there will be no winners, we will all pay in the end.
Good to see we have a healthy sampling of nazi’s here tonight. Sure, I used the word….it never applied more than it does now.
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:12 pmriddle me this nazi’s:
Why do police in even rural mid-western communities now wear black uniforms and leather gloves….in the summer?
anarchists, commies, dirty hippies, etc. labels to justify force…oh I forgot jihadists….that’s got to be one of them now.
Remember nazi’s, these are the same kind of people that forced an end to the viet-nam debacle. Don’t underestimate them. They will push you until you do something that even our crass society will regret.
I know it’s hard work to think but you guys had better be thinking of a way to resolve this peacefully, even if it means admitting you are wrong.
The Americans in the streets are right and you will lose in the long run.
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:28 pmFred. I’m not sure what Utopia you live in, but there is a place for good police work. The work is difficult and an essential element of our society.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/ 2008/ 08/ 25/ officials-examine-denver-reports-of-threat-on-obama/
Painting all police with a broad nazi brush is more irresponsible than anything that happened in Minneapolis.
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:41 pmI consider that a complement coming from you.
I’m sorry, I’m bitterly dissatisfied with the quality of police we have in this country.
I know, it’s just a few hundred thousand bad apples, right?
September 3rd, 2008 at 8:56 pmThough I’m sure he can defend his own words, Fred never said anything about all police being nazis. I thought he meant the cowards who support the beating of innocent people.
And, once again for the slow-witted, legitimate police work doesn’t excuse the abuse of power. Ever. And the evidence for widespread abuse of power is overwhelming.
Remember, claiming you are a member of a gang of thugs won’t mean squat if you put your face in the path of a boot, a baton, or a bullet. And criminals in uniform are no less disgusting than those in “gang colors”.
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:08 pmPete is right. I never expect backup to get anything out of a post except what he wants to use for his own purpose.
10,000 people in the street. There weren’t a lot more than that inside were there, 30,000 maybe, 50 maybe more but that’s a lot of protesters.
I think someone should be thinking of ways to settle this down instead of increasing the violence. It could be done but I am afraid the opportunity will slip away.
That many people with something to say would be easy to deal with if the authority were not operating out of fear of losing control of the situation.
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:19 pmMy advice, give “the blue gang” a wide berth. They are well armed and can act without fear of accountability.
September 3rd, 2008 at 11:08 pmI’m familiar with the venue Fred. You couldn’t fit 50,000 people in there if you ran them through a wood-chipper. And it didn’t look like it was anywhere near capacity.
You think that maybe the “big, brave, GOOPERS” got scared away by a couple “anarchists” who were already in custody? Or maybe, aside from the sheeple who attended, the bulk of the GOP know it’s over? The pundits seem to think so, when they don’t know they are being recorded.
September 4th, 2008 at 12:49 am