Rep. Chris Smith: ‘Our Students Must Find The God Of The Bible And Biblical Values In The Classroom’
Rep. Chris Smith: ‘Our Students Must Find The God Of The Bible And Biblical Values In The Classroom’
At a reception in St. Paul on Wednesday for Catholic Republicans, Rep. Chris Smith (R-NJ) — a fierce opponent of abortion — said that he is “very concerned that many of our schools and universities have lost their way.” They have become “bastions of moral relativism and moral compromise with the culture of death.”
As a solution, Smith suggested that “students must find the God of the Bible and Biblical values in the classroom”:
SMITH: Our schools need to become oases of goodness, sound moral teaching and, they must become agents of change in the culture. Our students must find the God of the Bible and Biblical values in the classroom, on the campus. I believe we need to do more to find effective ways to educate and inform policy makers and hold them to account.
Watch it:
Smith’s call for “Biblical values in the classroom” could easily be interpreted as a call for the promotion of Christianity in American schools. But, as the First Amendment Center has pointed out, “the courts have been clear that public school teachers cannot teach religion to their students or read the Bible to the class as a way of promoting their faith.”
Smith’s comments appear to be more radical than Rep. Steve King’s (R-IA) claim last year that “every child” in American schools needs to learn “the tenets of the Christian faith.” While King conceded that if “the tenets of Christianity” are to be taught in school, “other faiths” should be taught as well, Smith said no such thing.
Transcript:
SMITH: They challenge the young to get personally involved, to run for office, to be the judges and the professional staff. Like you, I am very concerned that many of our schools and universities have lost their way, having become bastions of moral relativism and moral compromise with the culture of death. Too many university presidents, administrators, professors and deans, including those at faith-based institutions of higher learning, often care more about their football team scores and their basketball team records or being progressive, than advancing the culture of life. It’s appalling, it’s a cause for sorrow and it has to change. Our schools need to become oases of goodness, sound moral teaching and, they must become agents of change in the culture. Our students must find the God of the Bible and Biblical values in the classroom, on the campus. I believe we need to do more to find effective ways to educate and inform policy makers and hold them to account. To live this life is hard. I’ve been a congressman for twenty eight years. Even men and women, like Sam Brownback, who’s a great man, and others in this room, we need to be encouraged and prayed for, that we can advance the kingdom of heaven.
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I would just like to take a moment to welcome all the lunatics and thank you in advance for coming. It is a rainy day for many of us and we can’t go outside and play.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:22 amI don’t remember anything in the bible about hiring a lobbyist to secure 27 million in pork for a town of 7,000 and then leaving it 20 million in debt. I do remember reading something about pregnancy out of wedlock though and being stoned to death.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:24 ambut who would teach the students?
perhaps bill bennett.
if they can drag him
away from his slot machines.
*
thank you.
;)
September 6th, 2008 at 10:24 amBeing from New Jersey, I know well of crackpot Chris Smith. He has a few points on research for Alzheimer’s and Unions, but otherwise is one of the key Right Wing Religious Fanatics. He voted for extra surveillance and the Iraq War, much the same as stealth Zionist Joe Biden.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:26 amAs a Catholic, I couldn’t disagree more with the position that we need to find “the God of the Bible” in classrooms — unless those classrooms are in a parochial school.
Would that be the God of the Old Testament or the New?
An eye for an eye, or turn the other cheek?
Sure seems like members of the party that claims to want to reduce government’s role in citizens’ lives is looking to expand it here.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:30 amI want more gods in the classroom. I really do. I just want as many as possible and I want them in the humanities classrooms and not in the science classrooms
September 6th, 2008 at 10:33 amWhy does Chris Smith (R-NJ), supposedly a committed Catholic, hate Catholic schools?
September 6th, 2008 at 10:35 amI am more than willing to acknowledge the importance of “values” in our social institutions as soon as I see the republicans presidential ticket candidates begin to:
1) tell the truth
2) dispense with their “win at any cost” behavior
3) show respect for their opponents and the American public
4) demonstrate that they have progressed beyond the selfishness and sense of entitlement exhibited by their “base”
5) quit using fear as the sole motivation in their politics (fear of others, fear of losing what they have, etc.)
6) show some true compassion instead of just flapping their jaws about it
September 6th, 2008 at 10:35 amWhat on earth is wrong with these guys?? Why can’t they get that the place for teaching religious issues is in church, and the place for teaching education is in publicly funded schools! What’s the bumper sticker? “Don’t pray in my schools, and I won’t laugh in your church” Seems like a reasonable compromise to me.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:37 amwhere can I get about a half dozen of those bumper stickers?
September 6th, 2008 at 10:40 amDamn I hope Daryll or someone of his ilk drops by….
SMITH: Our schools need to become oases of goodness, sound moral teaching and, they must become agents of change in the culture. Our students must find the God of the Bible and Biblical values in the classroom, on the campus.
Do you mean this god, Mr. Smith:
Yeah, that’ll really improve education in America. Teach children to be afraid of everything, especially knowledge, tolerance, and understanding. Sheesh!
September 6th, 2008 at 10:42 amBelieve what you want, but keep your superstitions away from me, my children and our schools.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:42 amdbadass Says: I want more gods in the classroom. I really do. I just want as many as possible and I want them in the humanities classrooms and not in the science classrooms
It wasn’t until I took a humanities course on Greek and Roman mythology my sophomore year in college that I first saw the parallel between pagan mythology and Christian mythology. As a result, I think everyone should take a humanities class on multiple gods and multiple religions in order to see that they are all just different versions of the same myth (that humans are the center of the universe).
Bobby Henderson’s tome of the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster should also be included. It’s perhaps the funniest thing I have ever read… :)
September 6th, 2008 at 10:47 amWhy is it that right-wing nut cases insist on less government ‘intrusion’ out one side of their mouths while being just as insistent on more government oversight in every aspect of life (to be certain we all think and believe like they do) out the other. When this is pointed out, they think it’s all very clear and simple, but they’re really no different than left-wing nut cases who also want more government oversight so everyone thinks and believes as they do. Who was it who said that if you go far enough in one direction you’ll end up where you started?
September 6th, 2008 at 10:48 amThe myth that the United States is a Christian nation is just as hollow as the reformer McCain/Palin ticket. I watched the pair bear false witness numerous times during the RNC.
They can package it any way they want. But wnen I untie the bow, I find “good Christians” deriding and lying. “Win at all cost” is not what we need to teach our children.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:48 amunbelievable:
September 6th, 2008 at 10:49 amThis is exactly why I think god is whacked. Until someone offers me a more jolly Santa-like less pissed off god, I can get by ust fine without any.
Children would be better served if they were freed from the constant standardized tests and corporate advertisements. Then they might learn how to become critical thinkers instead of mindless consumers. The ability to think critically and rationally, to draw independent conclusions, would do more to instill moral values than Bible-pushing
September 6th, 2008 at 10:51 amRalph @ 10:35 a.m. ” . . . Why does Chris Smith (R-NJ), supposedly a committed Catholic, hate Catholic schools?
Maybe his kids didn’t get accepted into Notre Dame.
Don’t know anything about this lawmaker, except his quote in this post.
Those who want to turn schools into daily church visits make me verrrry nervous. Most teachers probably aren’t too keen on the notion either . . . although, that threat of eternal damnation for excessive tardies might just be the needed kick in the pants — kidding, juuuuuuust kidding.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:54 amwhoops — on my 10:54 a.m. post, I meant to say “…to turn PUBLIC schools . . .”
September 6th, 2008 at 10:57 amsorry
Warning: pointing out that one product of Catholic schooling (Georgetown) was Bill Clinton might cause tiny heads to explode all across he nation.
We might want to concentrate on teaching what used to be called the trivium: rhetoric, grammar, and logic – the most basic tools of thinking. Then maybe we can consider offering electives in mythology for those who are interested.
BTW, as a product of parochial schools, including the dreaded Jesuits, I tell you an awful lot of Church teaching is stolen, er… appropriated, from Plato, Confucius, and the Buddha.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:57 amLike I’ve been telling my kids all their lives: the jeebus people scare the crap out of me. They should all be required to keep those stupid little fishies on the back of their cars so we can keep track of them :)~
September 6th, 2008 at 10:58 amdbadass Says: This is exactly why I think god is whacked. Until someone offers me a more jolly Santa-like less pissed off god, I can get by ust fine without any.
I think all gods, in the sense by which most people mean them, are essentially impossible. As Richard Dawkins pointed out that the only logical natural process by which a god could exist is evolution.
Besides, there are valid and logical explanations for who and what we are, as well as why we are here that don’t require supernatural hocus pocus.
What separates us from other apes might be that we have larger thinking and planning regions in our brains, but I am convinced, based on lingering popularity of god-beliefs, that they still aren’t large enough for us to consider ourselves fully conscious.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:59 amWhat did Congressman Smith do about the war in Iraq ?
September 6th, 2008 at 11:01 amWhat did Congressman do about health cost of this nation and the 40 million Americans are uninsured?
What did he do about the 9.5 trillion deficit?
What did he do about the alarming increasing numbers in bankruptcies and home foreclosurs?
He is talking ‘family values’ again,while the country is getting deeper and deeper in debt.
How about better science,physics, math and geography in class rooms so our kids can compete with the rest of the world students who are now way ahead of our kids?
Chinese,Japanese,Indian and many European kids are way ahead of our kids in learning, not because of Bible in the class room, but because they have better education system,and we spend ten times of what they spend…we think it is either the dollar we spend or the Bible in the class room is the answer.
The whole education system needs to be ovehauled.
Congressman is just taking the easy way out by using values in the classrooms ,instead of doing some hard work and look at what this country really needs….it is more than just family values, it needs better planning,and probably better politicians.
Frans De Waal also has many interesting things to say as to the evolution of ethics and morality in social animals
September 6th, 2008 at 11:03 amdbadass Says: Frans De Waal also has many interesting things to say as to the evolution of ethics and morality in social animals
Thanks, I’ll check him out. Anything specific you’d recommend?
September 6th, 2008 at 11:07 amPatty Says:
Would that be the God of the Old Testament or the New?
September 6th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Last night I was reading some reaction from religious blogs regarding Sarah Palin, where people were saying that she was not setting the right example for women of faith by ‘abandoning’ her children to run for office. While one was calling for people to follow Christ’s lead, all of the quotes that they used to prove that ‘the Lord’ wanted women in the home submissive to their husbands were from the Old Testament. I don’t remember Jesus saying much of anything about the role of women in society.
Unb, when I was young, during Lent my dad made us each read a passage from the Bible before sitting down to dinner. All of the Old Testament passages that we read were about ’so and so brought this many thousands of armies to attack so and so’. It was all violence and conquering other people. I hated it, and it’s one of the many reasons why I’ve been an agnostic lo these many years.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:08 amOur students must find the God of the Bible and Biblical values in the classroom, on the campus . . . because they aren’t going to find the values of the Bible in Republicans.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:08 am1) tell the truth
2) dispense with their “win at any cost” behavior
3) show respect for their opponents and the American public
4) demonstrate that they have progressed beyond the selfishness and sense of entitlement exhibited by their “base”
5) quit using fear as the sole motivation in their politics (fear of others, fear of losing what they have, etc.)
6) show some true compassion instead of just flapping their jaws about it
sorry to tellya, but only one of those, admittedly sound, moral injunctions is even touched in the “Bible,” the first one, about telling the truth. And even there it doesn’t say you gotta tell the truth, only that you mustn’t lie, which leaves a LOT of wiggle-room, if you’re a Puke…
And your point about not using fear? Well, that’s the whole point of the “Old Testament,” innit? That ol’ Jonathan Edwards crap, “sinners in the hands of an angry God, suspended over the pit of Hell?”
September 6th, 2008 at 11:09 amCould you imagine how easy biology would be? God created heaven and earth. Here is you 4.0. I know my kids are smart enough that there is no way in hell, or heaven, that they would believe the sun revolves around the earth.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:10 amThis is NOT 1850..this is NOT Colorado Springs and the Dobson clan..this is NOT a Pat Robertson rally..this is NOT a Klan meeting..This LUNATIC is talking about something for which he has NO rational solutions because he’s voted all the money for the War and has nothing left to fund rational higher education..
Stupidity has gone rampant with these morons..the KoolAide must have gotten stronger or the mix has changed since Cheeney has been overseas trying to start another war but this is out of control….
September 6th, 2008 at 11:12 amJane E. Schneider Says: Unb, when I was young, during Lent my dad made us each read a passage from the Bible before sitting down to dinner. All of the Old Testament passages that we read were about ’so and so brought this many thousands of armies to attack so and so’. It was all violence and conquering other people. I hated it, and it’s one of the many reasons why I’ve been an agnostic lo these many years.
I think that’s precisely why so many Atheistic and Agnostic organizations support bible reading :)
September 6th, 2008 at 11:14 am“Besides, there are valid and logical explanations for who and what we are, as well as why we are here that don’t require supernatural hocus pocus.”
The reason they require the hocus-pocus is that there is utterly and absolutely NO ‘reasonable’ explanation for WHY we are ‘here.’ The existence of ‘humans’ is completely, and totally a random matter. We have no “purpose” except to be. Unfortunately, that’s not a fact that most people are capable of understanding, or internalizing.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:15 amYou know they COULD include Bible teachings in a humanities class. They could use it to explain the Indulgence Controversy, or the Thirty Years War, and my personal favorite, why Fransois tricked and massacred the Huguenots.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:17 amThen send your kids to a religious school, you pompous a$$. Leave the rest of us and our kids alone.
As for religious teaching: I just read a booklet on the “end of time” reviewing my previous knowledge of the Book of Revelations, the Apolocalypse.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:18 amIt is a work of science fiction. It is a work designed to perpetuate the inherent superstitions of people from centuries ago.
Unb, my dad was a dedicated Bible reader, he started every morning that I can remember reading it. Later in his life, after he retired, he would go to Mass every weekday morning, then he and Mum also went to Mass on Saturday evening. Wayne and I like to joke about the fact that dad went to church every day EXCEPT Sunday.
What’s strange is that, despite his bible-reading-and-occasionally-thumping habit, dad was a fairly liberal Democrat. I thank whatever gods there may be for that! ;)
September 6th, 2008 at 11:19 amThe current GOP wants to control my reproductive organs. They want to control my genetalia, and who does what with and to it. They want to control my eyes, mouth, ears and fingers by spying on what I read, say, listen to and write. They want to control when I die and how.
They want to control the same for my child, and add in how and what he is taught in school. And to make sure, they want to test him every year to see that he’ll be taught to regurgitate on command.
Now they want to own and control my soul. As Barack said: ENOUGH!
PEACE
September 6th, 2008 at 11:24 amtokin librul Says: The reason they require the hocus-pocus is that there is utterly and absolutely NO ‘reasonable’ explanation for WHY we are ‘here.’
Actually, the reason we are here is to reproduce. That’s a simple product of our DNA, which evolved us (unconsciously, of course) as a vehicle for its survival. We’re just the product of billions ofyears of evolution – no more, no less.
I think people want to believe their purpose is something special, given to them by some father-figure so that they don’t have to decide for themselves (it isn’t easy to give your life a purpose of your own convictions).
I think we have evolved an awareness of how indifferent the universe is, but not yet the ability to accept this harsh fact, and so we have created these hous-pocus fairytales in order to soothe ourselves from the unnecesary cruelties of a universe that doesn’t not care (such as cancer, infant mortality and other such terrible pains and injustices).
September 6th, 2008 at 11:24 amMarie I hope you were talking about Rep. Smith ’cause I was being sarcastic, even my senior in high school daughter has an upcoming oped in the K-Zoo Gazette on why intelligent design shouldn’t be taught in school. People can believe what they want but it is my belief that something that can’t be tested through hypothesis has no purpose in public school.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:25 amMention of bumper stickers…evolvefish.com…I could wallpaper the wall with all the appropriate thoughts:) That said, last time I checked, there was a separation of church and state…for a reason! The Repugs this year would be even WORSE than the ones we’re dying to get rid of!!The fear and ignorance of this electorate is astounding to me! How do you even CONSIDER that ticket if you agree that you’re worse off than you were 4…8 years ago? If 80% of America thinks we’re on the wrong track and we need a change, then why on this Earth would anyone consider the same thing and expect a different result?????Repugs play on the fears and insecurities of the public..craft things in such a way that it makes SOME people question the decision they’ve made…I heard this in people’s voices yesterday working the phones for the Dems in AZ.. (If I can do it here, I can do it anywhere!)People want to talk about this election…they seemed almost resigned to the thought that no matter who they vote for, nothing would change..The hardcore Dems were for Obama, hands down…others, sad to say, saw Sarah’s speech, and thought she was the second coming..Hard for me to keep my opinions to myself when I talk to them..Obama was right yet again….they cling to their guns and religion alright.Seems a lot of people just eat the stuff that’s shoved at them…lost the ability to think for themselves in a rational way…It’s so clear to me, why don’t they get it, and what are they afraid of. Their ignorance is their bliss.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:25 amAh, I think I see the flaw in your theory: you insist on a logical process.
You know what they say: “nothing is impossible with GOD”. Thus, logic is irrelevant to these people.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:28 amIn that case, evolution and atheism should be taught in every Sunday School.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:28 amJane E. Schneider Says: Unb, my dad was a dedicated Bible reader, he started every morning that I can remember reading it.
I read Michael Shermer’s book on why people believe weird things. There was a chapter on why smart people believe weird things. It had to do with tehir ability to rationalize. I guess that’s why some people can read the bible(s) and continue to believe. But it’s good that he chose to get the good messages from it (being a liberal) than the crap Daryll and his ilk get out f it (hatred and divisiveness).
I do think it’s been interesting in the last two-years in this country, how non-believers coming out of the closet have brought out a lot of other non-believrs, and a lot of tolerance from liberal believers…
September 6th, 2008 at 11:30 amWhat’s the bumper sticker? “Don’t pray in my schools, and I won’t laugh in your church”
Actually, it’s “Don’t pray in my schools, and I won’t learn in your church.” I love it!
September 6th, 2008 at 11:30 amSome of these religious leaders and mentors do not want to see bright and smart generation of new kids,because they can read them and figure them out quickly.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:31 amThe same applies to some politicians who like people that can be lead easily .
They want kids to be stupid,instead, so they can make good followers later,and as a result religious leaders become richer and more powerful.
Politicians also look to increase their voting base of loyal followers who never learned to question them or what they do.
Is there some shortage of Catholic schools out there that we don’t know about. And for kids who choose to go to public schools Catholics have CCD classes after school to teach them what they missed. If as a Catholic you can’t afford Catholic school or even CCD classes then that’s somehting you need to take up with the church.
My guess is all these Christians who insist the bible get shoved into public school are too cheap to send their kids to church. Maybe they should try homeschooling Jesus.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:31 amOkay, so the God of what part of the Bible? Not the God of Leviticus
but perhaps the God of Mathew:5 and the Beatitudes?
AND WHO GETS TO CHOSE?
September 6th, 2008 at 11:31 amPeople are welcome to add as much God and bible into the classroom of whatever parochial school they can afford to send their children. However public school is exactly that public. The inclusion of religion in such a setting is an affront to parents and students.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:32 amralph the wonder llama Says: Ah, I think I see the flaw in your theory: you insist on a logical process. You know what they say: “nothing is impossible with GOD”. Thus, logic is irrelevant to these people.
LOL.
If that’s true, then I want to see them, of their own volition without any use of instruments or trickery, fly, walk on water, levitate, or some other such act that defies Physics.
Until then, I’ll continue to consider them delusional and out of touch with reality… :)
September 6th, 2008 at 11:34 amunbelievable Says:
——————————————————————————–
dbadass Says: Frans De Waal also has many interesting things to say as to the evolution of ethics and morality in social animals
Thanks, I’ll check him out. Anything specific you’d recommend?
–
September 6th, 2008 at 11:34 amI like “Our Inner Ape” and “Good Natured”. For me the first is a more enjoyable and fun while still thoughtful read while the second is appealing in that it seems more raw and refelctive of a younger author/scientist.
“…Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake”
Then all of us liberals must be truly blessed!
But you left out “Blessed are the cheesemakers” ;)
September 6th, 2008 at 11:35 amJane E. Schneider Says:
The thing is that all these Evangelicals use the old testament written by Jews for their rules. Well Jews never intended these stories to be used in that way. They used them as “stories”. Their rules and laws were in the Torah and the Talmud. I’m sure the originators of the bible thousands of years ago would be shocked that anybody ever took it literally.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:40 amtarazan Says: Some of these religious leaders and mentors do not want to see bright and smart generation of new kids,because they can read them and figure them out quickly.
Absolutely! I worked in the public education system for three years, and I can tell you that you are dead on.
I even worked for a Charter High School where we were told that we were there to teach them to think, and combat the drop-out rate in our county. Nonsense. We were there to beat them into submission and to be slavering sychophantic role models ourselves.
I learned in a workshop that the majority of teachers are bullies (people who get off on bossing other people around and punishing them if they don’t comply).
The smartest students in my classes had either learned how to play the system to tehir advantage, or had lengthy discipline records that would prevent them from being the future Einsteins who challenge convention and instigate progress.
And there was NO shortage of religious nuts running that school, or teachers preaching in classrooms. If anything, there’s too much religion in public schools already.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:41 amdbadass Says: I like “Our Inner Ape” and “Good Natured”. For me the first is a more enjoyable and fun while still thoughtful read while the second is appealing in that it seems more raw and refelctive of a younger author/scientist.
Thanks! I wrote them down and will put them on my next reading list.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:44 amI’d settle for just seeing one of them ski through a revolving door.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:46 amBut you left out “Blessed are the cheesemakers” ;)
We are doing red sauce today but I also have some halibut which is truely “fit for Jehovah”
September 6th, 2008 at 11:48 amChris,
That’s what churches are for. Have you never heard of the separation of church and state?
September 6th, 2008 at 11:51 amThe god of the Bible can be a vengeful, and yea, even jealous god. (not generally thought of as godly characteristics…but I digress)
It would help that old military industrial complex if we were all indoctrinated into being good little warriors of the state…then all war can be for the god of the moment. Oh how neato.
Palin of course gets her three letter words confused: Quoted as saying something to the effect that we were fighting for god at one time and also quoted as saying we were in Iraq for Oil. Will the real god please stand up?
September 6th, 2008 at 11:52 am‘Morning, dbadass–would that be Eric the halibut? Or is this some loaves and fishes thing?
September 6th, 2008 at 11:53 amDamn it, I thought my polite invite at #1 would have helped…
September 6th, 2008 at 11:54 amBy the by Matt…if someone is a “firce opponent of abortion” I think you are framing it the wrong way. What you mean is that they are a fierce opponent of a woman’s control over her own body.
Speaking as a woman and a grandmother.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:54 amPerhaps, since it’s raining, they’re not allowed to walk to the library to use the computer there.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:59 amRalph, maybe their basements got flooded.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:02 pm“Our Students Must Find The God Of The Bible And Biblical Values In The Classroom”
There are so many things wrong with that statement it would take a couple of volumes to cover.
But the most obvious to me is that it is a pathetic admission that the topics he wants taught in public school should be being taught in churches and other religious institutions, not to mention the home, and obviously are not or that statement would not be necessary.
This is your failure fellow. Leave the schools out of it.
Even if you assume the only valid version of God, Bible, and Biblical Values are the Christian versions; we as Christians can’t even agree on what all of those issues, values and versions are. We have slaughtered one another and others (We Christians are probably the most murderous religion in the World – Blessed is the Peace Maker? Not!) to try to prove who has the correct version and we continue to kill using Christ as the excuse.
There has been, for over a decade now, a push by the blood lusting religious Christian Right to push prayer in school. I’m still waiting for them, or anybody, to come up with a prayer that is acceptable to all religious beliefs and to the Constitution.
It would, however, be fun to watch the Supreme Court tackle the legality of a specific all purpose prayer, since it is unlikely that there are any fewer than 9 versions of religious interpretation hiding behind those black robes.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:04 pmWhat is this “rain” you speak of? None here in Oregon.
I did hear that those of you along the east coast are getting a bit of dampness.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:05 pmThis sucks… Send in the clowns. There’s got to be clowns!
Morning Jane. There is a client that insists the the tail end be trimmed as well as the nape. God damn prima donnas!
Llama: Hey Mahn…
September 6th, 2008 at 12:07 pmThere is no God, never was, never will be.
It is ancient superstition made up my Goat Herders.
Do not teach my grand children this superstitious primitive crap.
Teach them to be good citizens and to help others in need…
…sort of like Jesus did.
Jesus save us from your followers.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:12 pmAnybody catch the Daily Show last night, when The Best Effing News Team Ever tried to get Rs at the convention to define “family values”? Amazing how people who toss about that phrase so glibly couldn’t come up with much of anything, until they got to one guy who babble something about having a cow in your barn (that would go over well in cities!), ending with ‘like 1950s America’. Jeebus! Welcome back Donna Reed, doing light housework in a dress and pearls!
And thanks, TP, for making me re-type this whole thing because you didn’t like the way I typed a different version of ‘Effing’. Sheesh!
September 6th, 2008 at 12:17 pmJane- you left out “Blessed are the Beermakers”!
September 6th, 2008 at 12:17 pmBut conniptionfit, would that be limited to just beermakers, or would that include makers of ales, stouts and the like? What about other ‘potent potables’ makers? ;)
September 6th, 2008 at 12:19 pmChris Smith [R-Pluto]: [They have become] “bastions of moral relativism and moral compromise with the culture of death.”
Oh. You mean like bombing countries into the stone age and torturing people to death?
Cheers,
September 6th, 2008 at 12:25 pmDoes this moral compass being taught through the Christian faith in schools include having sex before marriage, having births in high school and marriage proposals after finding out your 17 year old is pregnant? Or is this the typical right-wing hypocricy whose rules only apply selectively when all-mighty power & politics is involved? Hmmm … I wonder …
September 6th, 2008 at 12:29 pmI once (and only once) went to a Wednesday night prayer service with a woman I was dating. Everyone present was encouraged to pray aloud. To impress the woman I was with, I did offer a prayer. Unlike the others who began their prayers with Dear god or jesus, I added a few lines to a prayer used to open Masonic meetings.
Supreme Architect of the Universe, we invoke your blessing at this time…
I removed “may this meeting thus begun in order, be conducted in peace and closed in harmony, Amen.”
In place I sad something along the line of “be with us this evening and hear our supplications. Grant us peace and understanding…
Everyone at that service came up to me after the last prayer to tell what a great prayer I was and invited me to come back.
I was laughing to myself the whole time. When the woman I was with said she wanted me to go with her again I was honest with her and told her I thought the whole service was as phony as my prayer. Needless to say, we never dated again.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:41 pmStill he gets all giddy when he thinks about those nasty thoughts which titilate his weirdo mind…
September 6th, 2008 at 12:43 pmIn my opinion and this is coming from a christian I’m beginning to wonder if the whole GOP hasn’t been taken over by the spirit of Satan. How else can one explain the hatred, the indifference, the dishonesty, the lack of compassion for others, the racism that permeates not only from the party leaders and supporters but also from their media bobble heads.
This new brand of politics came on the scene back in 1994 with the likes of Newt Gingrich, Tom Delay, Karl Rove and Ralph Reed firmly behind it. They are backed by extreme powerful, popular evangelicals like Hagee, Dobson, Robertson, the late Jerry Falwell. These are very wealthy reverends and pastors who actually seem to be false prophets who twist bible scripture to fit their hateful rhetoric while profitting from the word of God.
In the bible it says that an anti-christ will come on the world scene portraying himself as Jesus Christ and many christians and non believers will flock to him and give their undying support which of course will seal their fate for all of eternity.
Now if Satan wanted to deceive christians what better way to do it than by taking over a political movement/party and portraying it as Godly and morally superior. I’m not saying that the democrats are angels but you could take the worst democrat and line him up with the current leadership of the GOP and he/she would look like a saint.
The GOP sucks in well meaning christians because of their pro-life stand. Where in the bible does it say anything about abortion? Sure ine of the commandments says “Thou shall not kill” but that means thou shall not kill anyone, not just unborn babies.
I look at the way the republicans just blatantly lie, the hatred that they spew, the indifference that they show to others less fortunate and it becomes crystal clear that they are not the party that represents Christ or his teachings. It saddens and amazes me that so many decent Americans are taken in by the false rhetoric of this party. How they blindly follow such hateful, mean spirited rhetoric, but then I read in the bible how the anti-christ fools many and I see that it is happening right before our very eyes.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:43 pmTell you what, I’ll let “Mr. Smith goes to Washington” take care of his spiritual needs, if he leaves my spiritual needs alone.
There are tons of churches that exist around the fringes of every College or University that I have ever been to. People have a choice to go to them. People can even choose to go to a religious university if they want.
Is Forced worship really worship?
September 6th, 2008 at 12:47 pmUFL, excellent post.
“Now if Satan wanted to deceive christians what better way to do it than by taking over a political movement/party…”
…in the most powerful and arrogant nation in the world, so evil can do the most harm to the rest of the world as well.
These people are scaring the bejesus out of me, but they cannot be allowed to win, it would mean disaster for the entire planet. The other night I told my husband to start thinking about what country we may want to move to if the Rs take over, but, eventually, there will be no safe havens.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:55 pmWhere are the piss-soaked trolls…?
**crickets**
:-D
September 6th, 2008 at 1:00 pmSmith’s comments appear to be more radical than Rep. Steve King’s (R-IA) claim last year that “every child” in American schools needs to learn “the tenets of the Christian faith.”
Would this be the same Christian faith that has supported slavery, segragation and the subjugation of women? Not that everyone who calls themselves Christians think like this but merely to point out that Christians are far from having a monopoly on morals. In fact, it’s Christians like Smith and King, who’s faith is far more a testament to loyalty to the herd rather than an effort to follow the teachings of Jesus, that advocate the hate and bigotry that have caused so much suffering in this world.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
September 6th, 2008 at 1:00 pmHaving attended several different churches over my lifetime, I find that a majority of church services are nothing more than overcrowded Sunday school classes. Note the use of the word “school.” These so-called preachers (as my Granny used to call them) go to college and get their nice degrees so that they can get up in front of the congregation and give a speech. Oh the times I’ve heard many in the congregation remark that the preacher is such as good speaker. And that is all he is, usually reading from prepared text. A good friend’s Mom was once dating a preacher (”Norman”), and one day my friend remarked that Norman had been busy writing a sermon that he was going to give in December, which was 6 months away.
I wonder where in the Bible is is written that people selected by God himself to preach His word must attend college, learn all they can about the Bible, and receive a degree before they can “offically” preach at a church? We are told that God is all-powerful; can’t he supply all the info the preacher will need?
As for me, when I go to church I want the preacher to speak to my heart and soul, not to my mind. Instead, I’m faced with simplistic explanations that tell me that Jesus is like a boat, in that they both are the way to get from one point to another (the path to God, and across the sea, respectively). Or my personal favorite: God’s relationship with me is like the relationship between an engine and transmission in a car.
In the most recent church we tried out, the preacher would occasionally say funny things to make the congregation laugh, such as calling them knuckleheads. The church even printed up and sold T-shirts announcing “these are my church clothes” on once side, and “Graceplace knucklehead” on the other. Sorry, but I don’t go to church to be treated to laughs and jokes.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:05 pmLibertyLover Says:
Is Forced worship really worship?
September 6th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
And isn’t this one sign of a socialist society, one that Republicans are constantly warning us about if Democrats take control of Congress and/or the White House?
September 6th, 2008 at 1:08 pmI read and re-read all of this stuff and just keep asking, basically, how much longer are we going to put up with this crap? Sorry. I’m just tired and disgusted.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:13 pmMost of these right wingers would love nothing better than to have the church rule the state. We’ve met their types before; anyone remember the Spanish Inquisition?
Different Players; same play. Be afraid; be very afraid. we all need to get everyone we know, especially those young folks, out to vote. Ask everyone in your life if they are registered to vote; then make sure they all go to the polls.
I don’t want another four years with a false christian at the helm.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:17 pmI’m with you, hivanh.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:19 pmFascist tools: Ain’t they great.
http://www.light-to-dark.com/t_equals.html
September 6th, 2008 at 1:23 pmThanks Jane!
It is scary to witness. I witness it each day as one of my five sisters is a republican and claims to be unbiased yet strongly supports the GOP and refuses to read anything that exposes them for what they are.
Whats even scarier is that many of these Christian leaders like Jack Van Impe and Roderick Meredith (Tomorrows World) who are televised world wide tell us that they believe Satans fallen angels have taken over regions and political leaders around the world such as Russia, Iran etc, etc, but never once do they say this about our own country or our political leaders as if they are some how immune to the same evilness…give me a break!
Jane your comment “in the most powerful and arrogant nation in the world, so evil can do the most harm to the rest of the world as well.” Is so true!
Christians are being taught and led to believe that we are Gods elect. We are told that the anti-christ will come from Europe and within the EU, but there are some who believe the USA is the new Babylon spoken of in some of the scriptures and the above teachings are to mislead true christians about the truth of our country and our government.
I could go on and on about the things our government has done to other peoples or countries in the past but that would be redundant. Just look at the past 8 years. Look at how Bush and McCain can with a straight face criticize Russia for invading a “sovereign” nation while we have done the same exact thing. Now we have a new cold war to worry about. Why on earth would we sell missile defense systems to Poland knowing the affect it will have on Russia? When asked about why Poland needs these misslie defense systems a state department spokesman said “To defend themselves from possible future missile attackes from Iran or North Korea” Future missile attacks from Iran or North Korea…on Poland. Is anybody buying this b.s. Is anybody paying attention?
September 6th, 2008 at 1:24 pmOn a bet with a former girlfriend (for a steak dinner) I attended a charismatic christian service with her and some of her family. She said I would be too afraid to stand up front at the end of the service to have the laying of hands put on me. You know the part where everyone in the congregation goes up front and the Pastor and/or staff say some words of forgiveness for you as they put their hands on you and everyone drops like flies…well I went up front and the Pastor himself took hold of my wrists as he spoke his words, I kept standing and standing as he kept speaking and peering up at me as if thinking “okay boy fall down already you are making me look bad in front of my congregation.”
The steak dinner was delicious! :)
September 6th, 2008 at 1:31 pm“How about the god &/or gods of the Bhagavad-Gita …?”
“How about no god?”
“How about questions as to whether there is a god or not?”
“How about the god of the Iliad…?”
“How about the Great Triune Mother Goddess?”
“How about Sun-Myung Moon? O…that’s right…He is the god of the Bible…”
GOP Mess America…
====
September 6th, 2008 at 1:33 pmHere is another thing I expereinced while attending this charismatic church and why I stopped going to church for good.
Some pastor from Canada was going to speak on a Tuesday night, he had a very compelling life story of how he over came abuse by an alcoholic father, life as a street thug, etc, etc. I’ve never attended one of these engagements before so I went to check it out.
The guy went on and on about all the hardships he faced and finally conquered them as he turned to Christ. It went on for three hours, around 10:15 pm (a week night) 10 to 15 people started getting up to leave, some with young children. This Pastor noticed people leaving suddenly yells “Thats okay, let the sinners leave!”…I was like WTF and who in the hell does this guy think he is? I left shortly after that, tempted to yell “Look another sinner is getting tired of hearing you talk about yourself!” but I didn’t.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:38 pmUFL Says:
Why on earth would we sell missile defense systems to Poland knowing the affect it will have on Russia? When asked about why Poland needs these misslie defense systems a state department spokesman said “To defend themselves from possible future missile attackes from Iran or North Korea” Future missile attacks from Iran or North Korea…on Poland. Is anybody buying this b.s. Is anybody paying attention?
Is this the same “Missile Defense System” that has failed each and every time it’s been tested? In other words, we should sell the Poles a bill of goods and claim we are making the world safer? And you are right, there is no logical reason to think that an enemy who hates us would launch their first strike against Poland (unless they were thinking about what Bush said, “Don’t forget Poland.”) The Missile Defense System (or whatever they call what we know as “Star Wars”) does not work, and is still a ways away from being functional. It’s just another excuse to give our military industrial complex another no-bid, cost-plus contract.
Great posts, BTW. I enjoyed them immensely.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:43 pmUncle Fester rocks! :)
September 6th, 2008 at 1:43 pmUncle Fester, I don’t think that I could or would have resisted that temptation. Obviously the pastor was so full of himself, if he could not understand that it was way past young children’s bedtime. Some ‘family values’, huh? I admire your fortitude, I would not have been anywhere near so polite.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:50 pmUncle Fester Lurking said:
September 6th, 2008 at 1:52 pm“This new brand of politics came on the scene back in 1994 with the likes of Newt Gingrich, Tom Delay, Karl Rove and Ralph Reed firmly behind it. They are backed by extreme powerful, popular evangelicals like Hagee, Dobson, Robertson, the late Jerry Falwell.”
——————
The only way to combat this is to tax religions as a entertainment business, sort of on the line of a magician. Since they beleive in miracles, they should be seen just as entertainment, fore that is what religion is. Self egrandizment.
Sorry, Aggrandizement
September 6th, 2008 at 1:52 pmAlecto, great idea. Even if these ‘churches’ weren’t promising ‘miracles’, they are way too wealthy, influential and political that they must be crossing the line regarding their tax-exempt status. It’s total bullshite.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:57 pmAlecto Says:
The only way to combat this is to tax religions as a entertainment business.
““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““
Alecto, Churches should definitely be taxed! Especially when they are increasingly becoming a powerful force in our politics. They exist in a country that allows religious freedom, that allows them to exist and yet they aren’t taxed like businesses. These mega churches are the worst and are money churning political machines.
I had a great laugh last week when I read in the local paper that Pastor Mac Hammond founder of a mega church is whining because the I.R.S. is going after him for some taxes. The guy was a struggling American until he became a Pastor. Now he has a colossal church, real estate in Florida, California and Northern Minnesota, owns a fleet of luxury cars, a yaght…
I see nothing wrong with churches as long as they keep politics and religion seperate. I admire these small churches that struggle to survive in the shadows of these new mega churches that are popping up. They are much like these small mom and pop stores that try to survive in the shadows of the Walmarts of the world. As long as these small churches preach the true word and lessons of God and are an asset to their communites I have no problem with them being tax exempt, it’s these mega churches I have a problem with.
September 6th, 2008 at 2:09 pmI do apologize for these long posts and hope I don’t appear like a bloviated ass. This topic concerns me and pisses me off!
September 6th, 2008 at 2:11 pmHuge churches worth millions being built right now across America in the same communities with people living in poverty. Who did they say they worship?
September 6th, 2008 at 2:13 pmFred Says:
Huge churches worth millions being built right now across America in the same communities with people living in poverty. Who did they say they worship?
September 6th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
The Prophet of Profit
September 6th, 2008 at 2:17 pmSMITH: Our schools need to become oases of goodness, sound moral teaching and, they must become agents of change in the culture. Our students must find the God of the Bible and Biblical values in the classroom, on the campus. I believe we need to do more to find effective ways to educate and inform policy makers and hold them to account.
Okay, what is wrong with just this one little snippet (never mind the rest)?
Our schools need to become oases of goodness…
No, they must become Oases of Learning, for that is why we have schools.
…sound moral teaching and…
No, morals should be taught in the home, not in the schools, I thought conservatives hated the idea that schools were trying to teach our kids the things their parents should be teaching them.
…they must become agents of change in the culture.
Wow, is this conservative saying our schools should be teaching kids to be revolutionaries? I thought they hated people who wanted to change the status quo. After all, that is the fundamental definition of what it is to be “conservative” – to oppose change.
Our students must find the God of the Bible and Biblical values in the classroom, on the campus.
It would be easy to go on and on about this one, but I have one simple question for the Congressman: Which Bible? Not all Bibles are the same. And will the schools be provising the Bibles for their students (which would seem to have First Amendment problems written all over it), or do they have to steal their own Gideon Bibles from the local motels?
I believe we need to do more to find effective ways to educate and inform policy makers and hold them to account.
Then I suggest you not use the Bible (or any version of it) to do that. And besides, by the time they get to public office, shouldn’t our elected officials already have some kind of “education” and be “informed” on the issues? Isn’t it a little late for that once they are in office?
I guess it’s asking too much for one of today’s Republican Congresscritters to make an intelligent argument in support of anything. Just spew a bunch of nice-sounding platitudes that bear no relation to reality and claim you are solving the problem, and not amitting that you are the problem.
September 6th, 2008 at 2:17 pmThumbs up to Waynes comment #102!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I totally agree!
September 6th, 2008 at 2:22 pmWayne A. Schneider Says:
mccain is now also the agent of change since it has become evident that change is suddenly, unexpectedly important to Americans. This should be funny but it’s not.
September 6th, 2008 at 2:25 pmSarah Palin, John McCain’s VP running mate uses the Bible as her guide in her daily life. As other nations become more progressive and educated, some in the United States would like this nation to be run by religious fanatics – like what we have now. That’s what this nation needs, another president making decisions because it’s Gods will.
September 6th, 2008 at 2:27 pm“hope I don’t appear like a bloviated ass.”
Absolutely not! Don’t stop posting comments, we’re enjoying them all immensely. Damn, son, you should start your own blog!
September 6th, 2008 at 2:35 pmJane @ 106, thanks again! I’ve often thought about starting a blog but after dealing with these idiot trolls here and at other progressive blogs I do not think I could deal with them at my own blog. :)
September 6th, 2008 at 2:49 pmCan we imagine what the WORLD must think of this country’s headlong march into the Middle Ages???
Putin must be laughing his ass off at the thought of dealing with McSenile and creationist Miss Moosecakes 2005 . . . .
September 6th, 2008 at 3:03 pmUncle Fester Lurks Says:
I do apologize for these long posts and hope I don’t appear like a bloviated ass. This topic concerns me and pisses me off!
September 6th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
No…don’t apologize! Your posts are great!
September 6th, 2008 at 3:05 pmUncle Fester, you might like to ‘lurk’ at TheZoo once in a while-just click on Wayne’s name.
September 6th, 2008 at 3:06 pmUncle Fester Lurks Says:
I do not think I could deal with them at my own blog. :)
September 6th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Vee haf our ways….
September 6th, 2008 at 3:08 pm**evil laugh**
Hey, ZOOey! ;)
September 6th, 2008 at 3:09 pmUncle Fester, you just keep on posting your thoughts. I love ‘em. And when the trolls get to be too much, come visit us at The Zoo. A bunch of TP posters fed up with rampant trollism here started the blog, and we have a diverse group of writers. (Of course, the trolls don’t see us as diverse, but we are.) Click on my name to visit.
September 6th, 2008 at 3:10 pm“..just click on Wayne’s name.” Or Zooey’s.
September 6th, 2008 at 3:11 pmAnd thanks for the kind words about my post, Uncle Fester. :D
September 6th, 2008 at 3:11 pmHey, JANE! :-)
September 6th, 2008 at 3:14 pmWhy can’t I find it in myself to be concerned about the missing trollies…?
I just feel so sorry for all the rats and roaches being crowded out from under their bridges by those smelly trolls. :(
September 6th, 2008 at 3:20 pm(whispers) Zooey, I think we may have scared Uncle Fester off!
September 6th, 2008 at 3:35 pmDamn!
He’s just swapping out light bulbs, Jane.
September 6th, 2008 at 3:52 pmTRoS, hehe–actually, he’s abandoned this thread for the new IAVA thread.
September 6th, 2008 at 3:55 pmNah…I’m still here, just went away to do some prep work before painting….If I can find the motivation. :)
September 6th, 2008 at 4:01 pmThey have these already. They’re called “Madrassas“.
Once again, for the GOP, the lesson learned from 9/11 is we need to more like the theocratic extremists that attacked us, not less.
September 6th, 2008 at 4:04 pmThe iquisition… bring back the inquisition! …and they have the hipe to call muslims extremists… “God Help America” if we get more years of this retrogate party!
September 6th, 2008 at 5:17 pmSMITH: Our schools need to become oases of goodness, sound moral teaching and, they must become agents of change in the culture. Our students must find the God of the Bible and Biblical values in the classroom, on the campus. I believe we need to do more to find effective ways to educate and inform policy makers and hold them to account.
September 6th, 2008 at 5:21 pmGo read a book , mate! Not the Bible, but a book! Look around you! Learn about the World. Understand what you government is doing in the name of ‘good’… get out of your little space and comune with the rest of the World community! You need it!
If they haven’t found Him from within their home, how are the schools going to be the catalyst ?
Even more, I remember my elementary school years. I can think of a couple of instances of teachers talking about their beliefs. Beleive me, teachers are as messed up in their misunderstanding of faith as are folks in the general population.
September 6th, 2008 at 5:47 pmBarry Goldwater was right when he said that if the GOP allowed the religious right to take over the party it would be dead. He also said real republicans should stand in line to take turns kicking Jerry Falwell’s ass. I guess old Barry is turning in his grave.
September 6th, 2008 at 6:07 pm“Me thinks thou doth protest protest too much.” (Hamlet Shakespeare)
This guy is obviously “in the closet”!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 6th, 2008 at 6:38 pmWhile in the U.S.A.F. years ago, I never had any of the religious lunatic fringe harassing me, or anyone else, in basic training or on bases where I was stationed.
Chaplains were available. Churches were available. If someone wanted to see a chaplain or visit a church, no problem, as long as they were off-duty.
Our mission was clear. We stuck to our mission while on-duty, and generally on the military bases where I served. Religion was kept separate because that was NOT our mission, especially while on duty. Religion was an off-duty choice, made by each individual serving.
While on duty, each individual was honoring their oath to protect and defend our Constitution against both foreign and domestic enemies, while keeping their religion (or irreligion) separate from The Mission.
Sure, there were occasional lapses, especially late at night on the graveyard shift during bull sessions. People would have discussions about practically anything, but no one was trying to force anyone else to become a member of their religion, to believe as they believe…or else.
Then I got out of the military and went to college on the G.I. Bill. I took the required courses, but I used my electives to attend bible studies/Dead Sea Scrolls/comparative religion classes off-campus at religious student centers…where they should be. I was curious. I learned alot, about my own religion in which I was raised and all other religions. I was not forced. It was my choice…as it always should be in our democracy…for me and for everyone else.
College was not a madrassas. My education from elementary school to high school was not in a madrassas.
Therefore, I was shocked (and dismayed) to hear about what was happening at the U.S. Air Force Academy and throughout the rest of the U.S. military…just as I have been shocked (and dismayed) about what some un-American, un-patriotic people are trying to do to our educational system, forcing their religion down the throats of our nation’s children, turning our schools into nothing more than an al Qaeda-sponsored madrassas.
Forget it. The Mission, Our Nation’s Mission, My Mission still remains the same…protect and defend the U.S. Constitution from both foreign and domestic enemies.
These religious lunatic fools are trying to tear down the constitutional wall separating church and state, church and our military, church and our schools…just like a hurricane tearing through the New Orleans levees and drowning one of our nation’s beloved cities.
Just like the flood barriers in New Orleans need to be built higher and stronger, the constitutional wall separating church and state, church and our military, church and our schools, needs to be built high and strong, and maintained by vigilant, patriotic U.S. citizens. Our democracy deserves, no, DEMANDS, this…if it is to remain a democracy and not become some God-forsaking, religious-monopoly-run theocracy.
September 7th, 2008 at 1:45 amThanks for the reference to Barry Goldwater, kasinca. But you slightly misquoted.
from
http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/about/Goldwater.html
“When Sandra Day O’Connor was nominated to the Supreme Court in 1981, some Religious Right leaders suspected she might be too moderate on abortion and other social concerns. Moral Majority founder Jerry Falwell told the news media that “every good Christian should be concerned.” Replied Goldwater, “Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell’s ass.” “
September 7th, 2008 at 8:13 amThis guy is a NUTBAG. First it would clearly violate the First Amendment. I also would want nothing to do with it. I dont WANT schools to even TRY to teach my daughter WHAT to think only HOW to think logically. Also WHAT morals would those be? Help thy neighbor? Eschewing greed? Blessed are the peacemakers? I am betting THOSE morals would be anathema to rightwingnuts like Rep. Smith (R-Planetwingnut). No morals should be taught at home along with whatever religious instruction the PARENTS think appropriate. THIS guy needs a refresher 8th Grade civics class before they let him NEAR Congress again.
September 7th, 2008 at 11:46 amI think those in favor of the Iraq invasion and occupation have become “bastions of moral relativism and moral compromise with the culture of death.”
September 7th, 2008 at 6:43 pmAbsolutely! I worked in the public education system for three years, and I can tell you that you are dead on.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:08 amsohbetThese are people who think Christianity will fade if it does not have a federal mandate.
Bedava mp3 indirThey can package it any way they want.