Jobless claims increase by 32,000, nearing 7-year high.
By on Sep 25th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Jobless claims increase by 32,000, nearing 7-year high.
According to new data released this morning by the Department of Labor, unemployment claims “increased by a seasonally adjusted 32,000 to 493,000 in the third week of September,” marking the highest number of weekly claims since shortly after 9/11. The figures also “helped boost the four-week moving average of new jobless claims by 16,000 from last week to 462,500.” Levels “at or above 400,000 for the four-week average [have] also been present throughout the last two recessions.”
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And the Republicans are still claiming that anybody who doesn't have a job just isn't looking hard enough...
September 25th, 2008 at 11:30 amI believe these number were aggravated by employment disruptions due to Hurricane Gustav, and perhaps Hurricane Ike.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:32 amMaybe my not having a job will pay for itself. Eat the rich.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:32 amGee, didn't the average worker have a $40,000,000 golden parachute waiting for them when their jobs tanked?
September 25th, 2008 at 11:32 amThe fundamentals of McCain's stupidity are sound.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:33 amSo I'm assuming these people have dropped out of the "fundamentals of our economy," since they're no longer American workers.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:34 am'Even excluding the effects of the hurricanes, jobless claims remain at elevated levels. Weekly claims have now topped 400,000 for ten straight weeks, a level economists consider a sign of recession. A year ago, claims stood at 309,000.'
link
A sign of recession? But I thought that we're being terrified into going along with this Wall St. bailout to AVOID a recession?
September 25th, 2008 at 11:36 amBelieve me, the Republicans are working furiously behind closed doors to contrive ways to take the vote away from unemployed people.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:39 amThe good news (if it can be called such) is that people are beginning to accept the fact that the country is in recession (GDumbya's second one).
The bad news is that too many lemmings appear anxious to follow GDumbya off the cliff for a second time, too. This is a classic case of over-reaction . . . but what else should we expect from the active alcoholic in the Oval Office who brought us the Iraq Quagmire?
September 25th, 2008 at 11:39 amWhatever happened with all those jobs, and the never-ending financial bonanza for everyone that Pres Bush, not long ago, was predicting would happen as a result of his huge corporate tax cuts?
Yet another Bush harebrained scheme that has been proven wrong; in case we didn't already know "trickle-down" economics is little more that voodoo economics.
When it comes to talking about the future, Pres Bush's record is worse than your average fortune teller's.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:40 amLast night it was announced 13 GM dealerships are closing around the Houston and outlying areas. Some people just got back to work after Ike to be told they were out of a job yesterday. People this problem has been brewing a long time but until it hits us all it is easy to ignore it. Who could responsibly vote for another 4 years of this administration ?
September 25th, 2008 at 11:43 amYeah, it probably doesn't have anything to do with the fact that our entire economy is on the verge of collapse.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:46 amGiven the Republican propensity for lies and distortions, I am surprised nobody in the Bush camp has suggested that, in order to drive down the unemployment rate, all we have to do is stop calling the people without a job "unemployed" and/or stop counting the unemployment claims.
Of course, if called on their sheer idiocy, they would blame the uproar on "libruls" for taking their words "out of context".
September 25th, 2008 at 11:48 amThank you, President Hoove--er, Bush!
September 25th, 2008 at 11:51 amGregor - shall we just call them 'employment-challenged'?
September 25th, 2008 at 11:52 amExcellent question, Gregor. Whenever I get the opportunity to ask trolls or wingnuts; exactly how many years should it take before massive tax cuts to the wealthy deliver the boisterous, booming economy that Republicans have always promised?
Shouldn't it be here by now?
September 25th, 2008 at 11:52 amIf the jobless claims are 'nearing' levels of a 7 year high, how do you make the claim the (in regards to employment) that the situation is the worst since the Great Depression?
If levels at our above 400,000 have been present throughout the last two recessions, it makes since that you could make the case that jobless claims look recessionary. But, the comparisons to Great Depression era unemployment seem to be a stretch.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:53 ameven scarier is this number only includes those who still qualify for unemployment. The ones whose benefits have run out and who still have no job are not counted.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:54 amAnd these conservative idiots are still worshipping at the alter of Ronald Reagan. Reagan pushed a lot of the crap we are suffering now. Trickle-down is another one of those bullshit reverse names (like healthy forests and clear skys) the conservatives are so in love with. As was mentioned elsewhere, it should be called trickle-on.
The conservatives have been trying since Reagan to destroy Social Security, or make it profitable for their wealthy cronies by privatizing it - yeah, how is that working for you now - and Medicare as well. So long as it benefits their wealthy cronies, screw the little guy.
Layoffs are just another way to 'trickle-on' employees and provide more bonuses for upper management.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:56 ambackup - who said anything about the "Great Depression era" (other than yourself)?
September 25th, 2008 at 12:00 pmMary,
"employment-challenged"? Heh... I like that spin
Ralph,
I will get the opportunity to ask my hard-core Republican in-laws soon -I mean, Halloween is coming up and so is Thanksgiving. It'd be interesting to hear them justify the absolute mess this administration has created.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:01 pmralph. In terms of unemployment, you can look at worldwide comparisons of unemployment rates to compare how effective our tax structure is to other countries.
These figures show the U.S. at 4.6 percent unemployment in 2008 and Europe at 8.5 percent. I believe that our rate has increased since these figures where compiled, but I would imagine Europe is also seeing a slowdown and possible increases in the rates of unemployment. I don't know.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/economy/unemployment_rate_2008_1.html
Looking at the trends of unemployment in a vacuum, may not be the best indication of how effective our tax system is (compare with other systems); without considering the global environment.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:03 pmHere's a place to begin to attack the economic crisis--extend unemployment payment and begin to hire with government as the employer of last resort to work on decaying infrastructure, etc. WPA.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:03 pmBuckarooBanzai, excellent point. If the real number of unemployed was used rather than the massaged number, it would be a better view into the depression we are headed into. And someone who had a job that paid 60K/year and is now working two jobs to make 25k/year is also not listed. Lower wages, lost jobs, higher costs, bank failures, forclosures, economic disaster, and more. Looking at the total economy, we're screwed. Thanks to the right wingers.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:03 pmGuess you haven't noticed the economy is tanking and these numbers reflect a period before the crisis....they were'nt so good then despite bush saying tax cuts would create jobs......what do you think we have in store for us dummy....more jobs created by the crash we are experiencing?
You can't dilute this captain.....it's bad....just admit it.
While you're at it, admit that we predicted that bush would tank the economy and there would be a huge financial corruption scandal.....it was predicted and predictable.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:06 pmbackup: "If levels at our above 400,000 have been present throughout the last two recessions, it makes since that you could make the case that jobless claims look recessionary. But, the comparisons to Great Depression era unemployment seem to be a stretch."
Isn't it funny how careful and thoughtful conservatives are when estimating the peoples' pain, yet wild and exhuberant when estimating the effects of "trickle-down" economics.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:09 pmIt is real bad here in Southern Ohio. So many people are out of work because this area depends on manufacturing.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:09 pmIt is both sad and scary, and the people at the top continue to get richer!
And of course, here comes backdoor right on schedule w/ its usual load of obfuscating, condescending drivel...
Sayeth bd:
Looking at the trends of unemployment in a vacuum, may not be the best indication of how effective our tax system is (compare with other systems); without considering the global environment.
___________
Pray tell... what significant information would we glean from comparing unemployment rates in the US to any other country, anywhere? What we're concerned w/ is economic conditions here, stupid. And we get information by comparing this year's unemployment rates w/ last year's and the years before,, here in this country, and not w/ what's going on in Senegal or Thailand, you utterly disingenuous twit.
As usual, you just present a big, stinky pile of total doubletalk.
__________
Also sayeth bd:
I don’t know.
___________
The ONLY honest statement you've ever made here. BTW, what's up w/ the over-sized corn cob pipe? Pretending you're McArthur this morning?
Looking at the trends of unemployment in a vacuum, may not be the best indication of how effective our tax system is (compare with other systems); without considering the global environment.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
September 25th, 2008 at 12:12 pmNot big on complexity, are ya, backup?
This has pretty much been the wingnut strategy for presenting teh Bush economy in the best possible light for the last several years: pick whichever statistic can help make the case at the time, and proclaim that as the definitive indicator of the health of the Bush economy.
Sometimes it was the stock market, sometimes it was housing, sometimes it was "historically low" unemployment, sometimes it was GDP growth. They never seemed to choose wage growth, for some reason...
But it was always a single statistic, and NEVER EVER was it any kind of broad-based anlysis.
Now backup shows up to tell us that, even the the president says the economy is days away from meltdown, it doesn't matter because rising unemployment isn't as high yet as it has been in the past.
Thanks, backup. That's a relief to hear.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:16 pmbackup Says: In terms of unemployment, you can look at worldwide comparisons of unemployment rates to compare how effective our tax structure is to other countries.
1) I don't see how unemployment rates would demonstrate any "effectiveness" in the tax structure.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:16 pm2) Unemployment rates are measured differently in Europe. You cannot make a direct, side-by-side comparison like that.
3) As someone already said, the comparison is being made to previous unemployment rates in the US.
mary. There have been plenty of comparisons of today's economic situation to the Great Depression, here's one:
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/17/mccain-channels-hoover/
September 25th, 2008 at 12:16 pmUhm, backup, that was not a comparison of the current situation to the Great Depression.
The comparison that is being made has to do with the response to an economic, financial emergency.
There was not a word on the current meltdown being like the 1920's and 30's, and certainly not a word on unemployment rates...
September 25th, 2008 at 12:22 pmJeezus Chryst, B-cup. Are you capable of a decently reasoned argument ever?
Here's what you said above:
If the jobless claims are ‘nearing’ levels of a 7 year high, how do you make the claim the (in regards to employment) that the situation is the worst since the Great Depression?
Mary pointed out that you were the only one making that comparison here.
Your response (intended to prove her wrong, I presume) was to cite a TP article about how closely McCain's campaign rhetoric mimicked Hoover's from almost eighty years ago.
See the difference?
You're comparing economic conditions (and in a really bizarre way, i might add) and TP was comparing campaign language.
Apples to cotton balls, B-cup.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:25 pmbackup Says:
So mr optimist, please tell us how this is going to work out and be just fine. That the American people will feel no pain as a result of what has been done by the republicans in the past 7 years.
Tell us how we went from record job growth and a surplus to where we are now without mentioning Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter....
September 25th, 2008 at 12:27 pmOh, and backup, I don't know why quote the article's paragraph on the last two recessions in order to bring up the Great Depression.
Unless, that is, you are unaware there have been a few recessions since the 1930s...
September 25th, 2008 at 12:27 pmBy the way backup, that tweed jacket just doesn't go well with the hospital gown.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:29 pmAll of them under republican leadership except the one Jimmy Carter inherited when Nixon/Ford left office in disgrace...funny part is their disgrace didn't even have anything to do with the economy.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:31 pmGregor. you're right about this thread and the other TP thread I used as an example.
I have seen a lot of talk, not just here, but in the main stream media, about comparisons to the Great Depression.
It's not just from progressives, but talking heads trying to promote the bailout.
I'm no expert, but I just don't see financial numbers that seem any more significant than the numbers that accompany regularly occurring recessions.
I believe that a lot of the comparisons have more to do with sensationalism for political reasons and (in the media) to boost ratings.
I concede there's no comparison to the depression here (on this particular thread).
September 25th, 2008 at 12:36 pmGregor, Ralph and Fred - thank you! You guys are the best! It's very encouraging to know that there are smart, feisty guys out there like you!
September 25th, 2008 at 12:40 pmralph. you're also right. I question the comparisons of today's economic conditions to the Great Depression:
http://pr.thinkprogress.org/2008/09/pr20080918
but those comparisons aren't happening on this thread and not in regards to unemployment.
My bad.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:41 pmSo your basically admitting that your posts have been just so you could hear your own head rattle?
It is so similar that it scares the hell out of people and it should. Remember the buzz words of the day in the 20's were lower taxes and deregulation, sound familiar?
Additionally, if you don't think that the unemployment figures and financial corruption and default indicate a much more serious problem than we have faced since the great depression then maybe you should loosen your bow tie a little.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:41 pmWhen I think of the Great Depression I can't help but think of breadlines and people jumping out their windows. Not quite there yet, as far as I know.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:43 pmmary Says:
September 25th, 2008 at 12:45 pmBackup has been around for a while. He used to be better at this. It's kinda sad really.
backup says:
I don’t know.
backup Says:
I’m no expert...
____________
Hmmm... hard to argue w/ those 2 points...
September 25th, 2008 at 12:45 pmThe people jumping out of windows then were the people who want to be bailed out this time....
The biggest issue I have with any proposed bailout is that NO ONE has really said that it will work....then what?
September 25th, 2008 at 12:47 pmA friend of mine, a communication engineer, has been out of work since Feb. And to make things worse, Boeing has an apprenticeship program that is two weeks long, (you work for no pay to see how you do) they bring him in, he does the work, then they let him go for 2 weeks and then bring him back for another 2 weeks without pay, etc. etc. He finally told them to Foff, they have been abusing people like this since the economy bottomed out.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:48 pmbackup,
Thanks for being reasonable.
Now, there has certainly been talk about the current mess being the worst since the Great Depression. Here is one example, the first serious one (not by a TV talking head) I recall being made:
"This has been the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. There is no question about it," said Mark Gertler, a New York University economist who worked with fellow academic Ben Bernanke, now the Federal Reserve chairman, to explain how financial turmoil can infect the overall economy.
Worst Crisis Since '30s, With No End Yet in Sight
This means the current financial meltdown is the worst in about 70 years. We might not see the unemployment rates people experienced back then, but fact remains the situation is not a rosy one.
And who has been in charge all this time? That's right. Bush, the Dear (mis)Leader who said we needed deep tax cuts to enjoy the cornucopia of economic benefits.
I am still waiting for my crumbs to "trickle down" to me from above. And I bet so are you.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:48 pmMary,
Thanks for the kind words
;-)
September 25th, 2008 at 12:52 pmThanks, B-cup, but you're again simplifying the comparisons to the Great Depression, both here and in the media.
No one that I have heard or read has said that economic conditions today are comparable to the Great Depression, which is what you're claiming isn't true.
Almost all comparisons have rested on the conditions today that may be setting the stage for an economic collapse on a similar scale. Almost every economic indicator these days is ominous, some catastrophically so. The banking meltdown is one more stick being pulled out of an increasingly precarious Jenga pile.
I find your reading of the media (and political) climate sloppy. But you do take criticism like an adult. I appreciate that.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:52 pmFred. I personally don't believe the doom and gloom predictions. I'm in the minority and could obviously wrong. I believe that McCain stopping the campaign is a gimmick (in accord with the Administration and the Congress) attempting to make the American people believe that they are 'doing something'.
If you do believe the predictions of impending economic catastrophe, McCain's postponement of the debate and stopping the campaign to address it, makes a lot of sense.
I don't believe it, but for those that do; yucking it up with Dave Letterman and spending time primping for a debate, would seem pretty irresponsible; in light of the dire consequences.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:53 pmThe depression was a slide from 1929 and 1933 being the depth,and of course FDIC wasn't available then. But what happens when FDIC runs out ? Another bailout ?
September 25th, 2008 at 12:56 pmObama's ideas for putting people back to work run along the same lines of FDR's haven't heard any plan from mccain, has anyone else ?
ralph the wonder llama Says: Almost all comparisons have rested on the conditions today that may be setting the stage for an economic collapse on a similar scale.
At least the serious ones. And this is my reading of the news as well: We are not there yet, but we need to do something to avoid complete catastrophe. And we should brace ourselves for one very bumpy ride.
All brought to you by the actions (as well as inactions) of the current administration.
September 25th, 2008 at 12:58 pmYeah, that's his MO. Make outrageous statements and then apologize. Meanwhile derailing the discussion.
September 25th, 2008 at 1:00 pmBackup - I want to hear mccain and Obama's ideas and if mccain doesn't have 2 hours to share them it cements that theory that mccain has been out of touch and doesn't have a clue. mccain is using this diversion to opt out of the debate. And I use lower case to show disdain for this man.
September 25th, 2008 at 1:00 pmralph. This is an excellent point. I agree that just because today's economic conditions could be borderline recessionary - the trends could indicate future conditions much worse. I see it.
I still believe that with today's competitive 24 hour news cycle and the point that we are at in the election cycle, there is the potential (incentive) for exaggeration for political purposes (for both Democrats and Republicans) and for ratings (from the media).
But, on the broader question, I'll stop with the oversimplification of the snapshot of today's economic situation without considering the broader trends and general forecasts of most economists.
September 25th, 2008 at 1:00 pmFred Says:
Backup has been around for a while. He used to be better at this.
He seems to be able to take a certain amount of abuse. I just didn't realize that I have to keep all the comments from all the past threads in mind whenever I read the comments! Whew! Gotta be committed to post here!
:>
September 25th, 2008 at 1:01 pmCranky McCranky can blow smoke out his ears all he wants. He doesn't have a fu(king clue as to what to do about his own policies of deregulation and the havoc it has unleashed on the American public. Now that the trouble is trickling up to the GOP elite, they are all desperate to take money from the treasury, except its empty thanks to other GOP bullcrap ideas such as Preemptive War and massive Tax Cuts for those who already benefit the most from living and doing business in our society.
September 25th, 2008 at 1:02 pmBackup - if mccain's resolving of issues is so great why hasn't his party called on him to return in the last two weeks ? And what is this idea of primping ? Preparation yes, but makeup doesn't take that long.
September 25th, 2008 at 1:02 pmI call bullshit. What can Obama and mccain possibly add to what is going on? Obama will be there when the time to vote becomes a real issue, mccain, not so much.
There are plenty of capable people involved in it right now and mccain is just injecting politics into something he says should not be politicized.....he's a liar.
If mccain were serious he would take the opportunity to speak to the American people at the debate to calm thier fears, instead he grandstands and puts on his mickey mouse suit to fly to the rescue....I find it highly offensive.
September 25th, 2008 at 1:07 pmEverybody know that McCain and the mayor of Wasilla are running scared. They have no positions (except wanting to dictate to women what to do with their bodies) and no solutions to problems that GOP policy have brought upon this country. Run and hide old scared very ex-POW.
September 25th, 2008 at 1:07 pmYou have hit on the root of the problem. Everyone knows that the FDIC has insured deposits up to 100,000 dollars. No one has mentioned that there is no where near enough money to cover all of the deposits if things really go south. What then?
September 25th, 2008 at 1:13 pmHow am I going to help pay for this bailout if I won't have a job? The near future looks grim for a lot of folks if things don't take a drastic turn soon.
September 25th, 2008 at 1:34 pm