South Carolina mayor ‘just curious’ if Obama is the antichrist.
By on Sep 28th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
South Carolina mayor ‘just curious’ if Obama is the antichrist.
Fort Mill, SC Mayor Danny Funderburk said he forwarded a chain email suggesting Barack Obama is the antichrist because he was “just curious” if it was true:
“I was just curious if there was any validity to it,” Funderburk said in a telephone interview. “I was trying to get documentation if there was any scripture to back it up.”
The e-mail, which has circulated in the last six months, claims the biblical book of Revelation says the antichrist will be in his 40s and of Muslim ancestry. The Charlotte Observer reports, “There is no such scripture. And Obama is not a Muslim. But that hasn’t stopped the e-mail.” In March, CNN’s Glenn Beck wondered aloud “Is Obama the antichrist?“
View Most Popular
Advertisement
What We're About
What We're Fighting For
What We're Fighting Against
Featured
Subscribe to the Progress Report
Topic CloudView topics sorted by popularity
Afghanistan
Bachmann
Beck
Boehner
Bush
Cheney
Civil Rights
Congress
Corporate Ethics
Dobbs
Economy
Election
Energy
Environment
Ethics
Fox News
Gingrich
Global Warming
Hannity
Health Care
Immigration
International Relations
Iraq
Justice
Kristol
LGBT
Lieberman
Limbaugh
Maddow
McCain
Media
Military
Obama
Palin
Pelosi
Public Plan
Race
Radical Right
Religion
Sports
Steele
Stimulus
Tea Parties
Technology
Women's Rights
Visit Our Affiliated Sites
Reports
In-depth studies on select topics
Got a hot tip?
Have a hot news tip? We'd love to hear from you. Use the form below to send us the latest.
ArchivesBlog Roll
The real question is, “Will there ever be a shortage of inbred, racist, NC crackers?”
Short answer: Not so far…
September 28th, 2008 at 11:45 pmDamn – if he was payin’ any attention, he would KNOW that chimpy is the antichrist.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:45 pmDanny Funderburk: Your Big F u c k ing Idiot of the Day. Congrats!
September 28th, 2008 at 11:46 pmWhat?
No seriously…. what?
These people vote?
O_O
September 28th, 2008 at 11:47 pmGeez — hasn’t Funderburk ever heard of Snopes? This e-mail has not only been debunked, but any thinking person should have recognized it as hateful claptrap. And the thing that should have raised the eyebrows of anyone is the question “why would St. John be writing about a MUSLIM when they won’t exist for about another six hundred years?”
September 28th, 2008 at 11:47 pmdouche bags like that make me hate living in NC… 1 jessie helms was PLENTY.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:47 pmI think it’s an honest question.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:55 pmIt’s curious to me that he forwarded it because he was curious curious. How would forwarding such claptrap answer his question?
Good Lord! Deliver us!
September 28th, 2008 at 11:57 pmBe careful about criticizing Funderthuck, he’s got executive experience ya know.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:57 pmBTW, a bit of a typo in the article, it should be Fort Mill, SC.
Fan of Man Says
September 28th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
douche bags like that make me hate living in NC… 1 jessie helms was PLENTY.
________________________________________________________
Where in NC do you live? Here in the east half (where the barbecue is better), we enjoy knowing that all the Funderburk types are in the west half of the state. Our last mayor in Raleigh that came out of the Helms machine got defeated years ago.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:59 pmThe Bailout bill is available:
http://money.cnn.com/ 2008/ 09/ 28/ news/ pdf/ index2.htm
and Boner is instructing the House GOP to back it.
http://money.cnn.com/ 2008/ 09/ 28/ news/ economy/ Sunday_talks_bailout/ index.htm?cnn=yes
The bill is nothing more than us going into more debt for nothing. I am calling for the repeal of the Federal Reserve Act. The creation of this fictious entity (Federal Reserve) is the reason we are here today.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936
Skip to 01:25:00 and start from there.
Call you Congress Critters and tell them to
REPEAL THE FED!
September 29th, 2008 at 12:00 amMarwick, if Obama’s the anti-christ, who are you, the lord of the dunce?
September 29th, 2008 at 12:00 amHussein McCain Says
September 28th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
BTW, a bit of a typo in the article, it should be Fort Mill, SC.
________________________________________________________
True, but since it practically sits on the state border, it’s a common mistake. I don’t even notice it anymore.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:01 amYou’ve got your head up your ass buddy. What kind of racist religion do you belong to?? I wouldn’t be surprised if your congregation wore white Klan robes to Sunday services. For all we know you’re the AntiChrist trying to pan it off on someone else. Like you’re not obvious about the intent of your email. Bite me. By the way, the concept of AntiChrist is horse manure…just more words for cretins like you to sling around and spread fear among the masses.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:01 am“I was trying to get documentation if there was any scripture to back it up.”
Sorry, Pal, but finding anything in Scripture does not constitute proof of its validity. Just admit you’re a racist a$$hole and move on.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:04 amWe all remember Fort Mill, SC — former home of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker’s glorious Heritage USA Christian theme park, now sadly defunct. But Mayor Funderburk shows that quality thinking lives on in Fort Mill….
Anyway, the headline and story need to be fixed. It may be right on the state line, but Fort Mill is definitely in SOUTH Carolina.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:08 ammore racist cr@p out there –
forward especially to an independent voter in a Swing State listed in article below
September 29th, 2008 at 12:12 am
marwick Says:
——————————————————————————–
I think it’s an honest question.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Based upon the “honesty” and “integrity” you leg humping GOP turds have shown these last 30 years ?
How is an “honest question” possible when the discussion is over a fictional religious book’s accusation and proclamation ?
September 29th, 2008 at 12:17 amNo need to look for documentation that you are a racist, idiot, white trash. You very clearly proved that with this idiocy.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:18 amMcMetal, I think you’re using too big of words for marwick.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:21 ammarwick Says:
——————————————————————————–
I think it’s an honest question.
I think it’s an honest question to ask if you are a complete and utter racist moron who needs a note from his mom to remind him to breathe.
Oh wait, I read the inane and insane rantings on your blog, answered that question easily.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:21 am“I was trying to get documentation if there was any scripture to back it up.”
It’s sad, really.
These guys have been indoctrinated by Fox, and learned from their example, that to slur someone without fear of reprisal, one must never frame the attack in a straight-forward assertion.
It’s the coward’s form of journalism, and should be rejected by anyone with an intellect.
That those on the Right find it an acceptable form of debate, shows how simplistic their thought processes are.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:24 amFunderburk: is your mother a whore? I’m not saying she is, I’m just curious.
(Apologies to Jon Stewart)
September 29th, 2008 at 12:28 amFar worse christianist BS: Muslims terrorized in Dayton Ohio:
September 29th, 2008 at 12:29 amhttp://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/28/203016/697/536/613742
Oh good. I was afraid all the trolls had lost their jobs after the Wall St meltdown.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:31 am“Verily, there will dwell amongst us numerous idiotic a-holes such as Mayor Danny Funderburk and the leper-brained one who calls itself marwick.”
September 29th, 2008 at 12:31 amso…the final book of the bible predicted the antichrist would be of a religion that would not be founded for another 6 centuries. now THAT’S miraculous.
racism and dominionist theology go together well in the south. this doesn’t come as much of a shock.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:32 amYeah, how did he expect to find scriptural confirmation of an accusation specifically involving a religion that didn’t exist yet?
September 29th, 2008 at 12:37 amWe currently have an evil ruler that has run all the red lights and no one dares to question nor confront him. He keeps doing whatever he wants. Member of the Bohemian Grove. His family ‘The Bush Family’ is an honorable mention of the Illuminati.
Now that’s an antichrist. And yet, I never thought this antichrist would so incompetent and idiotic! He gets away with his incompetence. I’d say Bush is an antichrist runner up or wannabe.
Obama brings new hope to middle-class america.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:38 amThe Muslim religion started the same time as Judaism, and Abraham is considered the father of both.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:39 amThere were Muslims long before there were Christians. I’m not sure where you guys are getting the info that it didn’t exist at the time the Book of Revelations was written?
September 29th, 2008 at 12:44 amI had to come over and comment on this, because I have talked to some evangelicals. They say could be the anti-Christ, could cause the new world order, it is so stupid but a lot of these people say this.
This could be stemming from some of the teachings of churches I don’t know that but it could be, I know I read about the some of the churches endorsing political beliefs and teaching these to their constituents, the IRS need to make sure their tax is not exempt for this.
Now don’t get me wrong I am religious myself, however I think politics should be kept in politics area. What did Jesus say when shown a coin with Caesar’s inscription on it?
“Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and render unto God what is God’s.”
What we are facing now is ignorance basically a form of brain washing if you ask me.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:47 amIdyll, verily Abraham is supposed to be the dad of the forefathers (and foremothers) of the Jews, the Arab Moslems and even a few Episcopalians, but the Muslim religion got off to a later start than Judaism.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:47 am1.) Where’s Obama’s mark of the beast at?
2.) I don’t think Obama has super natural powers
3.) I don’t think Obama supports enacting a state religion like the antichrist is suppose to
Ridiculious.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:49 amHussein McCain, Arab Moslems are not the same as Muslims? I’m not contesting this, just asking cause I didn’t know there was a difference in the Muslims of Abraham’s time and those of today.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:52 amIBTunion4obama, Yeah, but isn’t the anti-cripes pussosed to be extremely handsome and charming, to the point that Mayor Funkybunky and marwick can’t get him out of their minds, and the only reasonable explanation is that Obama is the anti-cripes?
September 29th, 2008 at 12:55 amyou are dumb. Let me clarify though, Mohammed created Islam around 600 AD. If there was an Abaraham (and there wasn’t) he would have lived around 2000 BC. So you’ve got 2500 years between them
September 29th, 2008 at 12:55 amYou seem to be confused by the claim of Mohammed that his people descended from Abraham. He was BSing though, just to put a framework around the religion he was constructing.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:58 amNader the corporate destruction of capitalism
September 29th, 2008 at 1:02 amIdyll, Well, people from anywhere can be Muslim. For instance there are many Muslims in Iran, and they are mostly Aryan.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:02 amDear Mr. Funderburk:
If you really want to see the Anti-Christ, try looking in the mirror. You see him every morning if shave, and as a good Republican moron, I’m sure that you do…
Yours truly,
The real world.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:02 ammiatch, no you are dumb. Read Genesis sometime. Ismael was Abraham’s son.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:05 amOh, Idyll I have read your silly mythology more times than I care to admit. Was raised a christian.
But, again, Mohammed founded Islam in 600 AD. I don’t see how that confuses you so.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:07 amIdyll, you seem like a nice person, just miseducated by American pop culture and/or fanatical propaganda maybe. You could learn a lot from wikipedia (as reliable as most sources, and provides many references).
September 29th, 2008 at 1:08 amthe latest, forget where i saw it, but surely it’s easy,
has palin sent by god to fight the obama anti-christ…
how the hell did this ever get this far?
rhetorical question…
more fat cats, wearing collars…
September 29th, 2008 at 1:09 ameasy to find, that is
September 29th, 2008 at 1:09 amactually, those thieves don’t wear collars, do they…
September 29th, 2008 at 1:10 amMohammed was a prophet prophesied by the Muslim religion as Christ was by the Jews. Both Mohammed and Christ were historical figures whether or not you regard their relisions as mythology.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:10 amHussein McCain, I didn’t get any of this info from Wikipedia. I got it from the book of Genesis.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:12 amrelisions = religions
September 29th, 2008 at 1:12 amYou are still confused. There was no Muslim religion prior to Mohammed. And there is no historical evidence for a Jesus of Nazareth. There isn’t even any historical evidence of a Nazareth.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:12 amIdyll, You’ve really gotta read more.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:13 amAnd Idyll, here is the Wiki you seek:
Arab Muslims are Sunni, Shia. The Druze faith is generally considered divergent enough to constitute a separate religion. The self-identified Arab Christians generally follow Eastern Churches such as the Greek Orthodox and Greek Catholic churches and the Maronite church.
Before the coming of Islam, most Arabs followed a religion with a number of deities, including Hubal, Wadd, All?t, Manat, and Uzza. Some tribes had converted to Christianity or Judaism. A few individuals, the hanifs, had apparently rejected polytheism in favor of monotheism unaffiliated with any particular religion. The most prominent Arab Christian kingdoms were the Ghassanid and Lakhmid kingdoms. When Himyarite kings converted to Judaism in the late 4th century, the elites of the other prominent Arab kingdom, the Kindites, being Himyirite vassals, apparently also converted (at least partly). With the expansion of Islam, polytheistic Arabs were rapidly Islamized, and polytheistic traditions disappeared.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:14 ammarwick Says:
——————————————————————————–
I think it’s an honest question.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
OH I WISH I HAD BEEN ON HERE EARLIER!!!
HOW ABOUT THE WHORE OF BABYLON IS PALIN?
ANYONE CAN TWIST RELIGIOUS STATEMENTS, THAT WHY THERE’S FANATICISM IN RELIGIOUS DOCTRINES POPPING UP ALL OVER THE PLACE. WACO, EXTREME ISLAMIC VIEWS, SNAKE HANDLERS, YOU GET THE IDEA.
YOU WANT TO PLAY THE RELIGION GAME WITH ME-BRING IT ON. I AM GETTING MY MASTERS IN THEOLOGY AND HISTORY AND I LIVE TO KNOCK THE SHINY ZEALOTRY OUT OF THE EYES AND MINDS OF IDIOTS LIKE MARWICK AND HIS ILK.
WHAT’S NEXT MARWICK? THAT LAME TWIST OF “LEOPARDS NOT CHANGING THEIR SPOTS” THAT THEY USED TO USE TO SUPPORT THE IDEA OF SLAVERY?
September 29th, 2008 at 1:15 amFine, we’ll use Wikipedia.
Islamic tradition, however, has a very positive view of Ishmael, giving him a larger and more significant role. The Qur’an views him as a prophet, and as the actual son that Abraham was called on to sacrifice, as opposed to Isaac.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:16 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael
Idyll, The Book of Genesis doesn’t mention anything about the Muslim religion. The Muslim religion is not mentioned anywhere in the Christian bible. The Muslims consider Jesus to be a great prophet, maybe that’s partly what’s confusing you.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:16 amYep, that’s exactly what I said. Mohammed was BSing when he claimed his people descend from Abraham.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:17 amHussein McCain Says:
Idyll, You’ve really gotta read more.
More Wikipedia?
September 29th, 2008 at 1:18 ammiatch Says:
Yep, that’s exactly what I said. Mohammed was BSing when he claimed his people descend from Abraham.
Can you provide a source?
September 29th, 2008 at 1:19 amI’d just encourage you to read anything that’s non-fiction. The fictional (ie Genesis) seems to confuse you.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:19 amThe Qu’ran. Written by Mohammed.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:20 amIdyll, Christians believe in prophets who existed before Christianity was born. Same deal with Muslims. You just gotta keep reading and think things through a little more.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:22 am“Fort Hill, SC Mayor Danny Funderburk…”
With a name like Funderburk, he’s GOT to be good!
September 29th, 2008 at 1:24 amMiatch, you’re so cute. “The Qu’ran. Written by Mohammed.” is your source for saying Mohammed was BSing?
September 29th, 2008 at 1:24 amIshmael, son of Hagar and Abraham, is considered to be the founder of the basis of the Muslim religion. It is in Genesis. He is not the son of the covenant, so his religion is outside of the covenant the tribe of Abraham held with God.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:25 amThe Qu’ran is the first time an Arab claimed his people descended from Abraham. He learned this from an angel (Gabriel in fact) who he said was whispering that idea into his ear.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:27 amthe Lone Voice of Reason Says:
Careful, you’ll be accused of not reading enough.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:27 amYou can debunk people’s ideas about religion all you want, it simply has no place in politics. When people get that out of their heads the world will be a better place
September 29th, 2008 at 1:27 amIdyll, You’re confusing me. Are you saying you believe Mohammed? Are you Muslim and Christian? If you are, I admire that.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:28 amThe right wing can’t stand the fact that Obama is a better
September 29th, 2008 at 1:29 amchristian than McCan’t.
John McCain is a traitor because I was “just curious” if it was true:
“I was just curious if there was any validity to it,” I said said in a telephone interview. “I was trying to get documentation if there was any documentation to back it up.”
I’m just wondering. What happened to those living GIs left behind in Vietnam that Johnny knew about? Hmmm. What is Johnny hiding? Hmmmmm?
http://www.truthout.org/article/mccain-and-pow-cover-up
“John McCain, who has risen to political prominence on his image as a Vietnam POW war hero, has, inexplicably, worked very hard to hide from the public stunning information about American prisoners in Vietnam who, unlike him, didn’t return home. Throughout his Senate career, McCain has quietly sponsored and pushed into federal law a set of prohibitions that keep the most revealing information about these men buried as classified documents. Thus the war hero who people would logically imagine as a determined crusader for the interests of POWs and their families became instead the strange champion of hiding the evidence and closing the books.”
….
September 29th, 2008 at 1:29 amthe Lone Voice of Reason Says:
You can debunk people’s ideas about religion all you want, it simply has no place in politics. When people get that out of their heads the world will be a better place.
That deserves a very ironic “bingo!”
September 29th, 2008 at 1:31 amHussein McCain Says:
September 29th, 2008 at 1:32 amI haven’t been saying anything about my religion. Why do you ask?
Obviously, this SC mayor has time on his hands and his crystal ball is broken. Memo to SC mayor: Obama is not even a Muslim. You may want to talk to the clown President since the idiot believes he is the anti-Christ or the Chosen One. Man, the lunatics are certainly crawling out of the woodwork.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:34 amFor anyone who thinks Wikipedia is a reliable source, this entry references Miatch’s disbelief:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael#Jewish_traditions
“The Israelites regarded the supposedly freedom-loving and bellicose descendants of Ishmael as inferior because Abraham had expelled Ishmael and his mother.[16][1]
Miatch believes this isn’t true. ”
See? Anyone can write anything on Wikipedia.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:34 amThat preacher is going to hell!
September 29th, 2008 at 1:37 amIdyll Says:
the Lone Voice of Reason Says:
Careful, you’ll be accused of not reading enough.
I know a lot of people who lip sync the Bible, picking and choosing phrases and passages that help them expound their points of view, but just because you say you are a good Christian, Muslim, or Jew does not mean that you are. Word and deed go hand in hand.
I read extensively to get a better understanding of others as well as myself, because the greatest thing holding us down is IGNORANCE.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:38 amIdyll, you just added my name to Wikipedia?
Alright, that is pretty funny
September 29th, 2008 at 1:38 amThe Lone Voice of Reason, “outside the covenant of the tribe of Abraham” does not equal Muslim. Mohammed was the first Muslim. He had to convince others to become Muslim. He didn’t like the prevailing morality/religion of his time and place. His life story is interesting and informative. I’m not trying to be rude by suggesting you read more. I think I should read more too.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:38 amAlthough, I must say I never said anything about Jewish beliefs regarding Ishmael.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:39 amIdyll, About your religion, I’m just trying to understand where you’re coming from. About Wikipedia, you’re right, it’s easy to sabotage. Still, overall it’s a pretty good source, and can lead you to more reliable sources.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:44 amThat was a good trick, though.
It’s ridiculous. Having been born in and lived the first 47 of my 53 years in SC (in the 3rd Congressional District where Lindsey Graham was first elected to congress, btw), I grew up with folks in the church that my parents took me to in my youth being aghast if someone believed in evolution or did not believe in “THE RAPTURE” Had a Sunday School teacher, who happened to be my uncle, who referred to the SCOTUS at the time as the “evil kings” which he said were cited in the book of Revelations as being the harbingers of the end-times. This was around 1968. Desegregation of schools was being enforced at the time.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:44 amUnfortunaely, I think I have a number of relatives whom I love a lot who still believe in this stupid stuff.
Hussein McCain, my religion has nothing to do with anything I’ve said. I’m not speaking from a religious perspective at all, but from (albeit arguably) a historical one.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:46 amLincoln got it wrong. He should have let South Carolina secede from the Union. Or, at least let Sherman burn it to the ground too.
http://www.bloggerradio.com/2008/09/fort-hill-sc-ma.html
September 29th, 2008 at 1:46 amIslam
September 29th, 2008 at 1:47 am“religious system revealed by Muhammad,” 1818, from Arabic, lit. “submission” (to the will of God), from root of aslama “he resigned, he surrendered, he submitted,” causative conjunction of salima “he was safe,” and related to salam “peace.” Islamic is attested from 1791. Earlier Eng. names for the faith include Muhammadism (1614) and Ismaelism (1604), which in part is from Ishmaelite, a name formerly given (esp. by Jews) to Arabs, as descendants of Ishmael (q.v.), and in part from Arabic Ismailiy, name of the Shiite sect that after 765 C.E. followed the Imamship through descendants of Ismail (Arabic for Ishmael), eldest son of Jafar, the sixth Imam.
I’m not a particularly religious person, but if GW isn’t the anti Christ, I don’t believe there is one.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:48 amIdyll, Do you think of the Christian bible as historically accurate?
September 29th, 2008 at 1:48 amExcellent, you are interested in history. That’s great! Now, you are going to have to accept the idea that the Torah, the Bible, the Qu’ran, none of these are historical texts. They are fiction that has impacted history.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:49 amSorry, just wanted to make my point about the Ishmael thing. Still like to take those who throw biblical idiotics into politics and whack them upside the head a few time.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:50 amThe Lone Voice of Reason, Good points, well made, but I can’t condone the head whacking unless it’s done with a big fat holy bible.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:54 amHussein McCain Says:
Idyll, Do you think of the Christian bible as historically accurate?
September 29th, 2008 at 1:55 am“(albeit arguably)” should have tipped you off. Suppose we had been having a discussion about some other book? One that is undoubtedly fiction, and someone posted here that event A happened before event B. If I corrected that person, with references, does that mean I think that work of fiction is historically accurate?
miatch Says:
Excellent, you are interested in history. That’s great! Now, you are going to have to accept the idea that the Torah, the Bible, the Qu’ran, none of these are historical texts. They are fiction that has impacted history.
Please see my response to Hussein McCain at #92.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:57 amIdyll, I respect your personal views on the possibility of the anti-christ in the form of GW. I’m sorry I underestimated your wisdom.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:58 ammiatch Says:
Idyll, you just added my name to Wikipedia?
Alright, that is pretty funny
And let’s see if it’s still there next week.
This is a lame way of rebutting an argument.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:59 amScary thing is, there are those who would like a position of power that they could use to try to drive us and the world to their belief of what would be the End Times. I’d bet money that Cheney’s one. Either that or he’s got no soul left.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:59 amThere is no reason to apologize. Religion was constructed for political reasons. As someone who has studied these things for 20 years, here is my conclusion:
Judaism was invented around 700 BC, in order to solve the politics of a rapidly expanding Jerusalem, filled with refugees from the north escaping Syrian expansion. The king needed to construct a history in which they were all one people, and that those people were justified by god, in taking the land conquered by Syria.
Christianity was invented by Greeks in the 1st century, who needed a story that would allow them to control non-jewish populations with largely jewish orthodoxy. If Judaism refused to be missionary, they constructed a story within it to allow them to missionize. This was political.
Islam was invented by Mohammed around 600 AD. It was a way to unite various polytheist arab tribes, take what he liked from the established powers of Christianity and Judaism, and create a political unity.
It’s all politics.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:00 amthe Lone Voice of Reason Says:
Sorry, just wanted to make my point about the Ishmael thing. Still like to take those who throw biblical idiotics into politics and whack them upside the head a few time.
Thank you. I’ve noticed the claims that I don’t know what I’m talking about have stopped since you posted.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:03 amI agrees, Miatch, It’s all politics when you get down to it. People taking advantage of the need of others to be led rather than to lead.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:04 ambarfly, you consider Wikipedia a reliable source? Just curious.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:06 amIdyll, You’re right, “albeit” should have tipped me off, but it’s still not clear how Genesis indicates the existence of Muslims before Christianity. If I have a vision and realize that the first great prophet of God was an ancient Egyptian mythological being, and God reveals a bunch of new stuff to me to boot, and I start a new religion, that doesn’t mean my religion and it’s adherents date from the time of ancient Egypt.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:10 amHussein McCain Says:
Idyll, You’re right, “albeit” should have tipped me off, but it’s still not clear how Genesis indicates the existence of Muslims before Christianity. If I have a vision and realize that the first great prophet of God was an ancient Egyptian mythological being, and God reveals a bunch of new stuff to me to boot, and I start a new religion, that doesn’t mean my religion and it’s adherents date from the time of ancient Egypt
ONLY IF YOUR MORMAN
September 29th, 2008 at 2:12 amIdyll Says:
barfly, you consider Wikipedia a reliable source? Just curious.
I consider it a resource, that can be influenced in the short term.
Does that answer your question?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:12 amHussein McCain Says:
Idyll, You’re right, “albeit” should have tipped me off, but it’s still not clear how Genesis indicates the existence of Muslims before Christianity.
I thought the Lone Voice of Reason cleared it up.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:12 amIdyll:
Do you consider the various media to be reliable? They can also be influenced in the short term.
What in your view is the difference?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:14 amThe unfortunate thing is, these ancient politicians constructed religions to solve their short term political problems, and yet they constructed idea machines that are still causing us trouble.
I honestly think if I could sit down with the 6th cent BC King of Jerusalem, and explain that while he is solving a short term refugee problem, he is creating war that would continue for 2500 years, maybe he’d find a different solution?
I’d hope so.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:15 amAnybody can write Wikipedia articles. If I send an article to my local news station, I don’t think they’ll give it air time.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:19 amAny time a troll sites Wikipedia, he’s instantly criticized. With good reason.
We are hardwired to believe in a creator. Somewhere, someone in time will take advantage of that because people choose to be ignorant and led by their noses, probably deriving from feelings of self-worth or the lack thereof.
Was it PT Barnum who said there is a sucker born every minute?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:20 amIdyll, No, the Lone Voice of Reason made a good post concerning the history of the Muslim religion. I don’t think it supports your line of reasoning. I think, along with the joke about Mormons, it does the opposite.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:21 amBut maybe I’m too dense to understand what you’re really saying. Ive been wrong before, even if on purpose, just to see what it feels like.
Hey, where’d Marwick go? He started this. Yoo-hoo, trollie, where are you?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:22 amIdyll Says:
Anybody can write Wikipedia articles. If I send an article to my local news station, I don’t think they’ll give it air time.
Any time a troll sites Wikipedia, he’s instantly criticized. With good reason.
Oh, really?
We both know that editorial pages are bad arbitors of political opinion.
As are local TV stations – unless you’re trumpeting their ideological perspective.
In that sense, they are no better or worse that Wiki.
You can do better, I assume?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:23 amI see where you are coming from, but I don’t agree. We are hardwired to seek the easiest solution to a problem, and then to stick by it until it is undeniably proved wrong. I’m no neurologist, but I think the part of the brain that is comfortable with God is the same part of the brain that speaks to imaginary friends.
And at some point in your life, you accept that your imaginary friends are in fact, imaginary.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:26 amHussein McCain, glad you thought the Morman thing was funny. I don’t want to attack anyone’s religious views, you can believe what you wish as long as you are not using it to hurt others. I just think these bible-based rumors can be hurtful to a campaign that seems to be hinging on a bunch of numbskulls who haven’t figured out that the devil we know (McDepends) is trying to get in office
September 29th, 2008 at 2:28 amYou can find bullsh*t in wikipedia. You can find bullsh*t in good old fashioned encyclopedias, too. I love wikipedia and I love encyclopedias. Like anything you read, you’ve got to use critical thinking and investigate to try to determine what’s valid and useful.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:29 amAnother Joe @2 Says:
Damn – if he was payin’ any attention, he would KNOW that chimpy is the antichrist.
I figure the antichrist would have to be a trinity — most likely Cheney, Bush and Rove, in that order.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:30 ambarfly, I’m saying I have no influence over what’s broadcast on the news or written in the paper. I’m not referring to Letters to the Editor.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:30 amAnyway, save your opinions, Idyll. I’ve got to be at work early tomorrow, so I’m hitting the sack.
My final point is Curveball.
Was it Wikipedia that told us that his fantasies were fact?
I believe it was the traditional media…
September 29th, 2008 at 2:31 amWerd! I do use wikipedia constantly, but I try to verify. As they say, in the long run the markets are right, and in the long run we are all dead. I think, though, that Idyll is the first person to make me part wiki, so I have to appreciate that.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:31 ammiatch Says:
#
#
the Lone Voice of Reason Says:
We are hardwired to believe in a creator.
I see where you are coming from, but I don’t agree. We are hardwired to seek the easiest solution to a problem, and then to stick by it until it is undeniably proved wrong.
SOUNDS LIKE YOU DESCRIBED A REPUBLICAN
September 29th, 2008 at 2:32 amIdyll Says: Anybody can write Wikipedia articles.
While not perfect, the Wikipedia is reliable enough to be used as a starting point, or general reference.
It has already been subjected to that kind of scrutiny, and has fared fairly well:
The free online resource Wikipedia is about as accurate on science as the Encyclopedia Britannica, a study shows.
Wikipedia survives research test
It has also been found that vandalism (like you cute little edit) is repaired fairly quickly.
Now, regardless of the content and/or reliability of the Wikipedia, fact remains that 1) your statement “The Muslim religion started the same time as Judaism” is completely false, as it is well documented that Mohamed started spreading Islam in the 7th century and 2) you haven’t even tried to bring any sort of evidence to back up your assertion.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:33 amAnd how many of them ever owned up to their mistake?
Wikipedia, indeed…
September 29th, 2008 at 2:33 amHussein McCain, while scrolling up to find a post, I see one of mine is awaiting moderation. I’m not sure if its contents would clear anything up or not, but why not reread LVoR’s post at 1:25 am?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:34 amFort Hill, SC Mayor Danny Funderburk said he forwarded a chain email suggesting Barack Obama is the antichrist because he was “just curious” if it was true:
“I was just curious if there was any validity to it,” Funderburk said in a telephone interview. “I was trying to get documentation if there was any scripture to back it up.”
This has to be the biggest crock of shit I have ever read or heard of…….
Who forwards a chain e-mail that is only based upon suggestion in an attempt to verify the truthfulness in it ?
Chain e-mails aren’t ever sent back from its source of origin ……..What a liar.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:35 amAlso, fact remains that the Book of Revelation does not say that the antichrist will be Muslim.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:35 amAs we’ve been discussing, it couldn’t Revelations written 1st centuty, Islam being invented 7th century.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:38 amBACK TO THE ORIGINAL IDEA, THANK YOU MCMETAL
THEY ARE PRETTY DESPERATE AREN’T THEY, TO TRY SUCH LOW TACTICS. MAYBE WE GOT THEM MORE WORRIED THAN THEY ARE LETTING ON? HOPE SO. THEY ARE RESORTING TO STEALING MY YARD SIGNS AND BUMPER STICKERS LATELY, TOO, THE A**HOLES
September 29th, 2008 at 2:39 amThey’re nuts.
Everyone knows that the Anti-Christ is Ann Coulter.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:39 amGregor Samsa Says:
——————————————————————————–
Also, fact remains that the Book of Revelation does not say that the antichrist will be Muslim.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:35 am
It said that Kermit the Frog was a pretty suspicious character….
September 29th, 2008 at 2:40 amMy understanding of Revelations is that it was written by an exile tripping on mushrooms in a cave.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:42 amGregor Samsa Says:
Now, regardless of the content and/or reliability of the Wikipedia, fact remains that 1) your statement “The Muslim religion started the same time as Judaism” is completely false, as it is well documented that Mohamed started spreading Islam in the 7th century and 2) you haven’t even tried to bring any sort of evidence to back up your assertion.
I provided a link.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:42 amIdyll, I’ve reread it, but don’t see it proving your point. Ishmael being rejected by Abraham didn’t make him Muslim.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:44 amDon’t see no link idyll
September 29th, 2008 at 2:44 ammiatch Says: As we’ve been discussing, it couldn’t Revelations written 1st centuty, Islam being invented 7th century.
Exactly; which is exactly what I told Idyll here.
Instead of trying to provide some substance to his claim (which he can’t) he attacks the reliability of the Wikipedia -a very trollish thing to do, IMO.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:44 amthe Lone Voice of Reason Says:
Ishmael, son of Hagar and Abraham, is considered to be the founder of the basis of the Muslim religion. It is in Genesis. He is not the son of the covenant, so his religion is outside of the covenant the tribe of Abraham held with God.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:44 amSeptember 29th, 2008 at 1:25 am
I sited Wikipedia Gregor Samsa. And since the Lone Voice of Reason is well respected here, I now sited him as well.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:47 amIdyll Says: I provided a link.
Which says nothing about when Mohamed started spreading Islam. It only mentions that Islam shares many traditions with Judaism -which is why it is also a Judeo-Christian religion.
By your logic, Christianity started at the same time Judaism did.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:47 amIdyll Says: I sited Wikipedia Gregor Samsa.
I believe you mean “cited”.
And what the the Lone Voice of Reason stated in no way proves that Islam began at the same time as Judaism -only that Islam is based on Judaic traditions. Which we already knew.
Do you have reading comprehension problems?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:49 amIdyll Says:
——————————————————————————–
the Lone Voice of Reason Says:
Ishmael, son of Hagar and Abraham, is considered to be the founder of the basis of the Muslim religion. It is in Genesis. He is not the son of the covenant, so his religion is outside of the covenant the tribe of Abraham held with God.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:25 am
September 29th, 2008 at 2:44 am
Ummm , no …………
Actually Islam’s fundamental belief is that Muhammad was the restorer of the original monotheistic faith of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other prophets , and that Christanity and Judaism are perverted versions of Islam ……………
September 29th, 2008 at 2:50 amAnyway, the main point is that Mayor FarkerBarker is an a$$hole.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:50 amBy the way, most of the Bible wasn’t codified until after the 1st century, and the man who wrote Revelations probably isn’t the man most attribute it to. Revelations really had to do more specifically with the time period of that writer in respect to the occupation of the Romans in lands they held at that time. It was politically motivated and is still used so to this day.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:52 amAnd since you are citing the Wikipedia:
Islam is a monotheistic Abrahamic religion originating with the teachings of the Prophet of Islam Muhammad, a 7th century Arab religious and political figure.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:53 amIslam
Yes Gregor Samsa, my misspelled word proves I must be wrong.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:55 amTell me, is dbadass a troll?
agreed, but honestly I do enjoy a religious debate, Clearly Idyll thinks that there was a Muslim identity prior to Mohamed, and there really wasn’t.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:55 amIdyll Says: Yes Gregor Samsa, my misspelled word proves I must be wrong.
Did I say your misspell proves you wrong? No, I didn’t.
Try reading the rest of my post, if your attention span allows you to do so.
Nice try at changing the subject, once again.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:57 amdbadass Says:
kmukhar:
September 29th, 2008 at 2:58 amHighchools do not even allow wikipedia as a accepted source. The point of proper citation is reasonable but I would worry about a candidate who employs speechwriters who might think wiki is a “source”
August 11th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
OK, wiki aside, Idyll, do you believe there was an Islam prior to Mohammed? If so, you are wrong.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:03 amWould you read the King James version of the Bible if you knew it was authorized by an English king who was a known homosexual, who didn’t wash EVER so his hands looked like black satin, and who liked to stomp in the animals he killed so the blood ran down his legs?
You ought to see the horrified looks I get when I tell Bible thumpers that
September 29th, 2008 at 3:04 amJudaism pre-dates all montheistic religions , followed by Christianity and then Islam …………..
Jesus practiced Judaism ; Christianity was started by the apostle Paul ………Muslims believe the prophet Muhammad received the word of “God” through the angel Gabriel and wrote the Qur’an ; any questions ?
September 29th, 2008 at 3:05 amIdyll, Now you’re trying to use dbadass against us? That’s just plain mean, and a little creepy.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:05 amI wonder how the troll knew about that post in that thread, that is about a month old.
Could it be the Idyll is really Tripleprick? If so, he is obviously one hungry-for-abuse little twit.
And by the way, Idyll, dbadass’ post still doesn’t shore up your assertion that Islam is as old as Judaism (just thought I’d point that out for you).
September 29th, 2008 at 3:09 amHow in the hell can the Moslem religion be as old as Judaism when Muhammad wasn’t born until around the year 600 ?
September 29th, 2008 at 3:11 amMCMetal,
You’ll have to ask out friend Idyll/Tripleprick, who is bent on proving Islam is as old as Judaism. Although he is doing a lousy job at it. Must be that the pay cuts don’t do much for motivation in the troll ranks…
September 29th, 2008 at 3:14 amGregor Samsa Says:
——————————————————————————–
MCMetal,
You’ll have to ask out friend Idyll/Tripleprick, who is bent on proving Islam is as old as Judaism. Although he is doing a lousy job at it. Must be that the pay cuts don’t do much for motivation in the troll ranks…
September 29th, 2008 at 3:14 am
That is simply ridiculous
I already posted that Judaism is indeed the oldest monotheistic religion known to mankind ; it’s origin is somewhere around 2000 years PRIOR to Christ’s own birth , which Christianity revolves around . And even Muhammad and the Moslem religion mention Christ as a prophet , not as “God’s son” or “God” himself ; how would that be possible before Jesus’ own conception and birth and his living his life ?
September 29th, 2008 at 3:19 amHussein McCain, I used db’s post because no one seemed to believe that many people who post at TP have claimed Wiki isn’t the most reliable source. I’m sure you’ve seen them, though maybe you’ve forgotten.
Last post:
slam (Arabic: ???????; al-’isl?m (help·info); pronounced: [?s.?læ?m]) is a monotheistic Abrahamic religion originating with the teachings of the Prophet of Islam Muhammad, a 7th century Arab religious and political figure. The word Islam means “submission”, or the total surrender of oneself to God (Arabic: ?????, All?h).[1] An adherent of Islam is known as a Muslim, meaning “one who submits [to God]“.[2][3] The word Muslim is the participle of the same verb of which Isl?m is the infinitive. There are between 1 billion and 1.8 billion Muslims, making Islam the second-largest religion in the world, after Christianity.[4]
Muslims believe that God revealed the Qur’an to Muhammad, God’s final prophet, through the angel Gabriel, and regard the Qur’an and the Sunnah (words and deeds of Muhammad) as the fundamental sources of Islam.[5] They do not regard Muhammad as the founder of a new religion, but as the restorer of the original monotheistic faith of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other prophets. Islamic tradition holds that Jews and Christians distorted the revelations God gave to these prophets by either altering the text, introducing a false interpretation, or both.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam
The Qur’an describes many Biblical prophets and messengers as Muslim: Adam, Noah (Arabic: Nuh), Moses (Arabic: M?s?) and Jesus (Arabic: ??s?) and his apostles. The Qur’?n states that these men were Muslims because they submitted to God, preached his message and upheld his values.
The Qur’an describes many Biblical prophets and messengers as Muslim: Adam, Noah (Arabic: Nuh), Moses (Arabic: M?s?) and Jesus (Arabic: ??s?) and his apostles. The Qur’?n states that these men were Muslims because they submitted to God, preached his message and upheld his values.
Islamic tradition, however, has a very positive view of Ishmael, giving him a larger and more significant role. The Qur’an views him as a prophet, and as the actual son that Abraham was called on to sacrifice, as opposed to Isaac.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:21 amIslamic tradition, however, has a very positive view of Ishmael, giving him a larger and more significant role. The Qur’an views him as a prophet, and as the actual son that Abraham was called on to sacrifice, as opposed to Isaac.
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but didn’t this whole thing start out as a political debasement of a popular candidate by some idiot mayor no one has even heard about until now?
Can’t play anymore, gotta get some shut eye so have fun slugging it out :)
September 29th, 2008 at 3:24 amSorry about the duplicate lines. I thought I had copied the urls.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim link for second to last paragraph.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael is the link for the last paragraph.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:24 amIdyll Says:
——————————————————————————–
September 29th, 2008 at 3:21 am
I have already written most of that ; how in the hell can the Islam that Muhammad “reminded” everyone of as the supposed “true religion” , be as old as Judaism if Jesus is part of the Muslim belief that he was a prophet ?
How many “prophets” or apostles came after the New Testament ?
September 29th, 2008 at 3:25 amIdyll, Thank you for a fine post.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:25 amIdyll/Tripleprick,
Are you usually this slow, or are you making a special effort tonight?
You failed to notice that the Wikipedia entry you quote clearly states that Islam “is a monotheistic Abrahamic religion originating with the teachings of the Prophet of Islam Muhammad, a 7th century Arab religious and political figure.”
It doesn’t matter if he “restored” something or not. Fact remains that Islam didn’t exist before Mohamed’s preaching of his version of the Judaic tradition. Duh.
And while you are googling for something that comes close to helping you in your argument, you may want to also spend some time looking for that passage in the Book of Revelations that talks about the anti-Christ as being in his 40s and Muslim.
Because most of us recall the version with the number “666″ as the mark of “the beast”. See? No Muslims there…
September 29th, 2008 at 3:29 amWhere’s Rightpunch when you need him? Hope you guys haven’t forgotten him.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:30 amGoodnight
Gregor Samsa Says:
And while you are googling for something that comes close to helping you in your argument, you may want to also spend some time looking for that passage in the Book of Revelations that talks about the anti-Christ as being in his 40s and Muslim.
I’m definitely going to bed after this. You might want to spend some time looking up anything I’ve posted that even remotely suggests I believe anything of the sort.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:32 amGoodnight, Sweet Prince.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:33 amSo, Idyll, at this point do your believe a religion invented in the 7th century (which like all religions falsely claimed an earlier pedigree) could have been describe in a book written 14 centuries earlier?
September 29th, 2008 at 3:34 amIdyll babbles: You might want to spend some time looking up anything I’ve posted that even remotely suggests I believe anything of the sort.
Then why spend any time trying to prove Islam is as old as Judaism?
Or are you simply inclined to random acts of stupidity?
September 29th, 2008 at 3:37 amAh, dirty king Jim… when he wasn’t trying to decide between his 15 year old wife and which of his ‘favorites’ to shag, was busily penning this little ditty: Daemonologie
Inbred, indecent, insane.
“Mankind shall not be free until the last king is strangled in the entrails of the last priest. ” -Diderot
September 29th, 2008 at 3:55 amThese Christians claim to be “People of The Book”, yet they do NOT read. They thump the Bible. They put their family names in the Bible. They carry the Bible ostentatiously all over creation. But do they read the Bible containing the inerrant word of their blessed Lord and Most High Poobah? Nope. They might dust it occasionally, and polish the gilt edges, but they do not read it.
They rely upon Bible-thumping preachers such as Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Pat Robertson, Richard Roberts, Ken Ham, Ted Haggard, Joel Osteen, John Hagee, Jerry Falwell, etc. and etc., to tell them what the Bible says, because they themselves never learned how to read!
The Protestant reformation was based upon translating the Bible from Latin into the vernacular… precisely so that ordinary people could read and think and believe for themselves without some mumbling priest telling them what to believe. Men died so that Christians could read their own Bible.
If any of these yahoos bothered to open the pages and read what they claim as treasured and sacred and infallible writings they would discover that nowhere, NO flippity-floppin’-where, in the Old Testament or in the New Testament is there ANY mention of Mohammed, Islam, Muslims, Allah, or any other possible reference to a religion founded 600 years in the future.
They can’t count either.
600 years is more than they have fingers.
So they send chain letters and believe the latest bit of gossip with a credulity that would be laughable in a child.
And the preachers say “let us prey” as they look upon the fatted sheep.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:17 amSouth Carolina. Figures.
====
September 29th, 2008 at 5:23 amA mayor just as intectually sharp as Sarah Palin? Who’d a thunk it?
Let me provide that identitify to this soofus of the anitcrhrist – IT IS GEORGE BUSH!
September 29th, 2008 at 7:10 amWouldn’t you know, Curious Dan has a son-in-law named Tucker.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:18 amPalin’s the Whore of Babylon. Spread the word :0
I just don’t think that most Democrats can stoop as low as most of the Republicans. Tell the little sobs to quit messin’ with my yard signs and being juvenile.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:38 amNothing wrong with curiosity
But I’m curious if Mayor Funderburk would have been equally curious about an e-mail claiming John McCain or Sarah Palin is the biblical Antichrist. And would he had searched for that claims “validity” by helping to circulate the e-mail?
September 29th, 2008 at 8:38 amI am kind of curious, too. Does Foxy Funderburk eat young children for breakfast? With a name like Funderburk, you never can tell.
September 29th, 2008 at 8:41 amIF the Book of Reveleations is a “prophecy”, and it is part of the “word of God”, then it is NOT a false prophecy. Right? Therefore it would not be possible to alter the events given there: they must transpire, and any attempt to interfere with these God-ordained events from transpiring would be to seek to alter the Will of God.
Why do Christians hate the Will of their God?
Christians are so silly.
September 29th, 2008 at 8:49 amthe Lone Voice of Reason Says:
Palin’s the Whore of Babylon
Heh, heh…..
The Whore of Babylon and the son of Cain (Mc = “son of”). Where is the Christian fear over THIS combination?
September 29th, 2008 at 8:51 amIsn’t there the whole thing about the Temple being rebuilt in Jerusalem before the appearance of the Anti-Christ there?
Maybe it’s going to be one of those pre-fab things…
September 29th, 2008 at 9:37 amWhat? I thought Obama was a foot washer!
Is anyone else sick of this “The One vs. Anti-Christ” crap? Yes, I know it’s branding from our two pathological political parties. But it still stinks!
September 29th, 2008 at 9:37 amBush is responsible for the death of a million people in Iraq and 2 million refugees. Who is the antichrist if there ever were one? Islam did not even exist when the Bible was written. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Embarrassingly dumb.
September 29th, 2008 at 9:56 amWell.
If he’s the Antichrist, then it’s written in the Bible and ya might as well vote for him. Because unless the Antichrist comes into power, there can be no second coming and therefore no rapture, right?
And if he’s NOT….
Well, he just might fix our country, eh?
Either way, Obama/Biden 2008!!!!!!
September 29th, 2008 at 10:11 amThe Antichrist is to come from the north. Palin is from the North…..I am just wondering if Palin is the Antichrist????
September 29th, 2008 at 10:27 amPS –
I just e-mailed the Mayor. I wish I would have rememembered to send him the web address for Snopes political rumors. Here is his e-mail address — dfunderburk@fortmillsc.org — maybe someone else could send him that information?
September 29th, 2008 at 10:35 amGood morning, Mr. Mayor!
He wants to hear from you.
September 29th, 2008 at 10:36 amDanny Thunderbird…”TODAY’S WORST PERSON IN THE WOOOOOOOOORLD!”
September 29th, 2008 at 10:36 am…since my link didn’t work, here’s his email address:
dfunderburk@fortmillsc.org
September 29th, 2008 at 10:37 amFirst of all, if this nut knows anything about the bible then he would know that the bible is clear on this; the antichrist will come out of “Rome” , you big dummy. Out of the roman catholic church. Yes, I said it, the catholic church so check your history nutcase!!!!
Obama will win because he has to usher us back into the quite time period where he will fix everything back and then all hell will break loose whom ever comes after obama!! My suggestion is to keep looking over in Europe because that is where he will come from!!
September 29th, 2008 at 10:42 amMan, absolutely insane.
The funny thing is that these e-mails about what supposedly is in the Bible only affect those that supposedly are close to God and care deeply about the Bible. Shouldn’t they instantly know this isn’t in there?
I’m not surprised, it’s just incredibly stupid.
September 29th, 2008 at 10:43 amI would have said this guy is unsuited to hold public office, but then again, Sarah Palin got elected Governor, so obviously a complete lack of critical thinking skills isn’t a problem to being elected.
September 29th, 2008 at 10:47 amThe wonderful thing about religion is that it probably gives a very satisfying explanation for how the book of revelations could be talking about Islam when that religion wouldn’t be founded for another 500 years.
September 29th, 2008 at 10:51 amEver been to Fort Hill, SC ?? Cesspool of the continent. Are we sure that it was Mr. Funderburk speaking from under that white, pointy hat??
September 29th, 2008 at 10:55 amCool. My first time in moderation. :-D
September 29th, 2008 at 10:56 amThis is the crap that church leaders and their goons use to frighten the gullible in their congregations who lack intelligence to study the Bible for themselves. The evangelical bloc endorsed Bush, who had claimed to be one of them — just see how he and his cohorts have sought to destroy the soul of America!
September 29th, 2008 at 11:08 amThe church leaders don’t know which way is up. And the sheep they pastor are just incapable of seeing that the antichrist argument is a dumb, stale and tired tactic used to demonize others they don’t favor.
Congrats, Zoo!
Moderation is the place to be.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:14 amI am a Christian and I do believe in the Bible; however, I know that before Barack came on the scene you racist religious right nuts were saying that the anti-christ was half Jewish from the European Union and someone that everyone would love. It isn’t that Barack is loved by all; it is the fact that he is hated by sick racist that disguise themselves as Christians.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:26 amAn Open Letter to All Republicans From a Former Religious Right Activist
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/an-open-letter-
September 29th, 2008 at 11:28 amto-all-rep_b_127709.html
I’m not curious, obviously the Mayor has sold his soul to the Devil!
September 29th, 2008 at 11:32 amWell that is what you get for mentioning Middle Class Tax Cuts
September 29th, 2008 at 11:38 amat least 999 times in the campaign. If they turn that upside down you know, there is something there.
Satan has fooled you all, the anti-Christ is a women
September 29th, 2008 at 11:39 amIt is Gov Palin. She speaks in tongues, claims to know
God will. Had her witch doctor Pastor lay hands on her for
special powers.
In case anyone wants to let the mayor know what a butt he is, here is his email address dfunderburk@fortmillsc.org and also the email address from his personal website Mayor@DannyFunderburk.com . You might let him know that his use of religion to subvert the election is not passing unnoticed.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:49 amTEACH THIS BIGOT MORON A LESSON!
BOM HIM OUT WITH EMAILS:
Concerns, questions or suggestions? Contact:
Mayor@DannyFunderburk.com
Website: http://www.dannyfunderburk.com/
September 29th, 2008 at 11:50 amA lot of people are confused as to the identity of the anti-Christ. The current theme is that the anti-christ will come and make a covenant with Israel. These spurious theories are spread our pulpits, taught in our seminaries, and printed in our news papers.. We give Obama more power than he deserves. The pope has a lot more power than Obama.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:52 amhttp://joeland7.wordpress.com/2008/07/11/the-truth-about-the-beast-of-revelation-identified-666/
This kind of shit makes me wonder how the hell human beings ever made it this far.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:16 pmAlright – haven’t read all comments, but the first person is not smart… the article is not about NC… it’s SC — different state, “hanshiro”. NC may be still a bit backwards in parts, but we’re no SC!!!
September 29th, 2008 at 12:39 pmI’ve heard SC Mayor (Danny Funderburk) is Muslim, and he looks Muslim to me.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:54 pmSome churches are thinking of preaching from the pulpit about who their congregations should vote for, it was on the news. That concerns me because they are not above such references to the End Times to influence their flock (flock as in sheeple). If they do, then these churches should permanently lose the nontax status that they enjoy. Hey, a little bit more tax money for the economy!
September 29th, 2008 at 1:20 pmIt’s very possible Mayor Funderburk is using a diversion
September 29th, 2008 at 1:25 pmtactic, so everyone will take their eyes off of him. He
may very well be the anti christ hiding in plain sight.
Mayor@DannyFunderburk.com
is this the email for that mayor?
this may be his # 803-547-2116
September 29th, 2008 at 1:27 pmask him why he’s a bigot?
It’s actually Fort Mill, not Fort Hill. Since you didn’t catch the typo in the post, I am assuming you have never been there either. Nice try Winski.
September 29th, 2008 at 1:31 pmAnd we should care what an ignorant religious cracker thinks, why?
God Is Just… PRETEND!
September 29th, 2008 at 2:03 pmthe Lone Voice of Reason Says:
My understanding of Revelations is that it was written by an exile tripping on mushrooms in a cave.
That’s my understanding too. A guy gave him a “small scroll” and had him eat it. Well, “small scroll” is not a bad phrase to describe a curled up piece of dried mushroom.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:21 pmI think I have read it all. It has come to pass that the powers that be have succeeded. This is a nation “dumbed down”. I cannot believe the illiterate commentary of many of the people who have written into this blog. People, people, people, get yourselves back to school and actually learn something this time. The commentary here is pure uneducated hatred and ignorance. There is no place in society for prejudice, but I can see that wherever most of you were raised and education that basic human decency has been lost. Stop with the Muslim crap and the black crap. Barack Obama is a very intelligent man running for President. Yes, just a man, take him or leave him, but leave your idiotic prejudice out of it. He is after all….half white also. Although if you are the standard for being white, I would much rather be anything but that….!!!! And yes, i am a white woman.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:22 pmOne more comment: If he were Muslim what difference would it make. Just because someone is a different religion doesn’t make him/her an extremist. I would say that Sarah Palin is much more extreme than Barack Obama. After all I haven’t heard him say he is going to pray away anyone’s gay, he hasn’t asked to ban any books. Yes I know she didn’t try to ban books, but she did ask about it. That alone should have raised a huge red flag. I guess if you want to live in Naziland then it would be OK, but I personally don’t want to go there. Just think about some of the idiot stuff you are talking about….Let’s separate church from state like originally intended. Keep religion in the church where it belongs and out of politics.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pmI think a lot of non-Muslims don’t realize that Muslims start their history from the very beginning also, and not just the 600s AD. Islam means “submission” [to the will of God]. The only thing that has changed is the definition of what God will us to do. At first, it might have entailed just believing in one God. As time went on, and civilizations grew, we received other commandments and codes of conducts. So submission then entailed living according to all of those new directives as well.
Muslims regard Adam as a prophet. We believe that Islam (in the days before Muhammad) meant anyone who believed in the existence of One God and followed the commandments that were in place at that time (in whatever time they lived).
We believe the followers of Moses, prior to Jesus, to be our predecessors.
We also believe, just the way that Christians believe, that the Old Testament was “updated” (or abrogated) when Jesus came, and some of what was previously ordained had changed.
We believe the followers of Jesus, who followed his teachings and believed in the one God, to be our predecessors also who had received the updates from Mosaic law.
After Jesus died, his teachings became lost and/or muddied by mistranslation, etc. We regard modern Christianity more of a religion about Jesus, and not necessarily the religion of Jesus. We do believe that there are many truths contained in the Bible, but since so much has been lost or mistranslated, we don’t know which parts are accurate and which are not.
In the 7th century, we believe that God sent another “update” to his last message with a new messenger. The Qur’an corroborates a number of things in the Bible. Where it is in agreement with the Qur’an, we believe that part of the Bible to be true. Where it differs, we believe in the Qur’an.
Prayer and fasting always existed in some form, but the establishment of the time-frame, exact method, etc were all put into place by Muhammad. We consider him to be the last prophet, and all Muslims are required to believe in all of the prophets who came before Muhammad and the messages/scriptures they brought.
I hope that clears things up.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:39 pm“jaymark Says:
“It’s ridiculous. Having been born in and lived the first 47 of my 53 years in SC (in the 3rd Congressional District where Lindsey Graham was first elected to congress, btw), I grew up with folks in the church that my parents took me to in my youth being aghast if someone believed in evolution or did not believe in “THE RAPTURE” Had a Sunday School teacher, who happened to be my uncle, who referred to the SCOTUS at the time as the “evil kings” which he said were cited in the book of Revelations as being the harbingers of the end-times.”
Jaymark:
I love it here and I prefer our kooks. They make me laugh.
I have a friend who is trying to find Lindsey a wife. I think she needs to
September 29th, 2008 at 2:52 pmgive up that idea.
Don’t you miss it here?
The antichrist will wrap him/herself in a flag and be clutching a bible. Who does that remind you of?
September 29th, 2008 at 4:03 pmScaryBrownHusseinChick (ThinkOutsideTheBush) Says
September 29th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
__________________________________________________________
Your post is a good explanation, and I thank you for that.
However, this casts even more doubt on the legitimacy of the e-mail that triggered this whole discussion. If “Muslim” merely means “one who submits [to the will of God]“, then the e-mail is making a claim that the antichrist is one who submits to the will of God? Doesn’t that sort of kill the entire agenda of an “antichrist”?
Ah — no amount of pretzel logic is too much when creating lies with a religious veneer to justify prejudice.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:06 pmOur problem is “extremists” who want to force their brand of religion on all others. Everyone should be able to worship the god(s) of their choice. As long as someone does not tell me how to worship, then they can worship whoever/whatever they please.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:15 pmI understand Mayor Funderburk is a disciple of Judas.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:38 pmI just want to say that I am from the Deep South – Northeast Alabama to be precise – and not all of us down here believe that Barack Obama is the Antichrist. Some of us think it’s George W. Bush. Then again, that’s sort of an insult to Antichrist’s everywhere, isn’t it? Sorry, Antichrists.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:52 pmOh, sorry – Antichrist’s should not have had an apostrophe in there on that last post. That’s one of their pet peeves. Oh, I’m going to get SO much hate mail from the Antichrists.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:53 pmIdyll Says: “There were Muslims long before there were Christians. I’m not sure where you guys are getting the info that it didn’t exist at the time the Book of Revelations was written?”
Idyll, please save the dawah-ganda for ill-informed or weak-minded; those of us that have left Islam for Lord Jesus know better. Nonetheless I find Muslims attempting to impose their indoctrination less offensive than the backbiting Christians.
For the love of love of everything good, I cannot understand why Christians would attempt to deny Obama (and perhaps other former Muslims) what Christ Jesus has promised to those who call him Lord. However I will speak for the former Muslims and say; Lord Jesus acceptance of us, is infinitely superior than that of Man’s and we are content with His promise. I am also content with the knowledge Lord Jesus will deal justly with the likes of Funderburk and others that profane his Holy Name for political expediency.
regards, joseph
September 29th, 2008 at 5:29 pmWhat choice do Mulsims have but to believe the Bible is corrupt. It’s not like Islam can make a case for itself without the accusation. However let’s set that aside and see if we can put the Muslim double-speak to rest. If Muslims supposedly existed prior to the bringer of Islam, then person need not believe Mohammed is a prophet to be a Muslim…correct?
regards, joseph
September 29th, 2008 at 6:35 pmNot possible. I’ve already proved, beyond a theological doubt, that my neighbor is the anti-christ. At over 250 flabby lbs, he insists on working in his yard everyday with his shirt off. This might be acceptable if it were over 90 degrees or he were actually accomplishing anything. He also feels a need to clear his throat with this bizarre hacking noise outdoors that is so loud, you can hear it from five houses away. If you study the Bible, you will find all the telltale signs are there.
September 29th, 2008 at 11:43 pmJoseph Jibran Says:
What choice do Mulsims have but to believe the Bible is corrupt. It’s not like Islam can make a case for itself without the accusation. However let’s set that aside and see if we can put the Muslim double-speak to rest. If Muslims supposedly existed prior to the bringer of Islam, then person need not believe Mohammed is a prophet to be a Muslim…correct?
regards, joseph
I’m not here to argue which religion is better. I was simply trying to provide some prospective on a point that a couple of other people were debating. Putting down others’ beliefs seems to be your agenda, but it is not mine. Leave me out of it, please.
Peace.
(And I will not be checking this thread anymore.)
September 30th, 2008 at 12:47 amGet this straight HusseinChick, I took issue with your article (and with other Muslim posters) for the reason it was nothing more than typical Islamic propagation produced for western consumption. Not only is it apparent you know very little about Christianity but even less about Islam. I am willing to venture you’re a convert (or should I say revert?) to Islam and with superficial knowledge of Islam, at best. Just so you may know: my mother and siblings are Muslims; and as should be expected, dear to me. So spare this forum of your insight on my agenda. I did not visit this forum to engage in debate with Muslims. but neither should I be expected to remain silent on Muslim postulations. Nonetheless, you had an opportunity to confirm the truthfulness of your claim and declined to answer.
regards, joseph
September 30th, 2008 at 2:52 amhes pretty close to the antichrist as far as im concerned. that satenist mantality seems to show
September 30th, 2008 at 5:01 amIf you believe this kind of thing, it would seem that the hypnotically deceptive spin continuously used by the right, projecting all their ills onto any opponent and claiming morality and integrity where there is none, would be more indicative of anti-Christian behavior.
September 30th, 2008 at 8:45 amI would like to thank you for teaching me something about your religion. I find that the pseudo christians in our society support ideals that go against the very ideals and teachings that they claim to support. They also seem to go against the very ideals that our founding fathers deemed important, mainly the 1st Amendment.
First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances
Freedom of Religion only seems to apply to them as long as you want to be a hypocritical christian.
Peace
September 30th, 2008 at 10:43 amsuzie_z@hotmail.com Says:
One more comment: If he were Muslim what difference would it make. Just because someone is a different religion doesn’t make him/her an extremist. I would say that Sarah Palin is much more extreme than Barack Obama. After all I haven’t heard him say he is going to pray away anyone’s gay, he hasn’t asked to ban any books. Yes I know she didn’t try to ban books, but she did ask about it. That alone should have raised a huge red flag. I guess if you want to live in Naziland then it would be OK, but I personally don’t want to go there. Just think about some of the idiot stuff you are talking about….Let’s separate church from state like originally intended. Keep religion in the church where it belongs and out of politics.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Separation of church from state, or separation of church and state, is not in the U.S. Constitution. Further, it seems clear from the writings of the founders that their desire was that religion, Christianity, would influence the government, but the government would not influence Christianity. The influence of church on the state and state on the church was the European model where the church, the Roman Catholic church, was heavily embroiled in politics with many negative consequences.
That Christianity was their expectation seems more certain when early state oaths of office are examined. Many of these oaths required that the oath taker affirm that he was a Christian.
Nothing that bit reads in the founders writings’ about religion suggests twenty-first century understanding of this subject, as expressed by most TP posters, agrees with eighteenth and nineteenth understanding.
To put it plainly, nothing in the US Constitution was intended to support immortality, but most often, the understanding expressed on TP, is used to support and encourage immorality. Many posting here take the First Amendment to be a license for licentiousness.
It appears that the First Amendment was written with the expectation that the predominant religion was and would remain Christianity. As an example of this expectation of a predominant religion consider what
George Mason, often called the “Father of the Bill of Rights,” proposed as the wording for the First Amendment.
Quoted from
Rowland, Kate (1892), The Life of George Mason (New York: G.P. Putnam’s Sons).
If anyone has any reference to any document written in the U.S. from about 1776 to present time, which suggests that a Mohammedan could, would, or should be President of the U.S., bit would appreciate seeing it?
September 30th, 2008 at 1:38 pmNeither is Trinty ever mentioned in the Bible, but how many Christians deny the doctrine? Separation of church and state is a legal doctrine intended to create a wall between church and state; notwithstanding too many church officials telling Christians to check their brain in at the door.
First of all ease your mind and prejudice; Obama is as much Christians (perhaps more) as you perceive in yourself, family and friends. Bitblt, I don’t want to sound mean but you have a reasoning problem. You do understand when Christians engage in logic fallacies to make a case, our witinessing for Lord Jesus becomes null and void?
I would appreciate seeing the legal documents which suggest non-Christians are barred form becoming US President. Listen, the US Constitution is about liberties, not shackles, esp. the right to self determination and freedom of conscious. This individual right was fought for and died for, by people of all color and creeds including Atheists; the very liberty that has allowed me leave Islam without fear of harm and accept Lord Jesus. OMT: Most of the founding fathers were not Christians and I can found no legal or political document attributed to them, mentioning Lord Jesus.
regards, joseph
September 30th, 2008 at 4:03 pmOMT: Most of the founding fathers were not Christians and I can found no legal or political document attributed to them, mentioning Lord Jesus.
bit believes you’ve been mislead about the founding fathers not being Christians!
To get an idea to the extent you’ve been mislead visit
http://www.wallbuilders.com.
You seemed to have missed my sentence…
One of the recurring themes among founders was that the government they proposed would only work with a religious, moral people. This would seem obvious if the context from which they thought was based in Christianity. To bit it also seem reflected in the state oaths of office affirming that the oath takers were Christian. There are themes in our early government that office holders are accountable to God.
Christ and Christianity is frequently mentioned in the founders’ writings – often private correspondence between people.
bit believe that what you’ll find is the U.S. is a government for a Christian people. What do you think? Would there be a U.S.A without the influence of Christianity and the Bible?
How imbued is this influence in early America?
The quotes are from “New England Primer”, a text book used from the late 16xx to late 18xx.
bit wasn’t thinking about BHO when he wrote about a Muslim being president.
Here’s a rewrite on bit’s question:
bit does take some offense to this:
but since this is anonymous posting, bit will get over it.
BHO has a 100% approval, or some sort of political ratings, from NARAL. Believe the acronym means National Abortion Rights Action League. It’s easy to find on the INet and they’re proud to endorse BHO.
Further, there are those who say BHO is for, promotes or doesn’t condemn, infanticide. Believe BHO has voted four times against “born alive” bills. These are bills to protect babies who survive abortions. Usually when this happens, a baby survives an abortion, they are left to die from exposure. It’s facetiously been described as a post abortion abortion. It’s infanticide.
BHO himself, when asked when life begins, answer, “That’s above my pay grade.”
This promotion of abortion, to bit, is incompatible with Christianity.
September 30th, 2008 at 4:49 pmJoseph Jibran Says:
.
.
.
Neither is Trinty ever mentioned in the Bible, but how many Christians deny the doctrine? Separation of church and state is a legal doctrine intended to create a wall between church and state; notwithstanding too many church officials telling Christians to check their brain in at the door.
.
.
.
September 30th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
You might be surprised the number of U.S. citizens who think that the phrase “…separation of church and state…” is in the U.S. Constitution.
The questions remains though whether or not we understand the First Amendment in the twenty-first century the way it was intended in 1789. bit believes we miss here.
If memory serves, the famous separation of church and state doctrine is from a 1947 SCOTUS decision. bit recognizes it as the law of the land, but doesn’t think this legal doctrine reflects the intent of the founders. Further, bit doesn’t think this 1947 interpretation has benefited the nation – as a whole.
bit’s reading leads him to conclude that the intent of the founders was that the government would not exercise control of religion
- the federal government is not going to pick a Christian denomination that way many of the colonies had –
while at the same time expecting Christianity to influence the government
- we want leaders who are accountable to God.
The wall of separation in Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptist Association was a one-way wall: religion was protected from government.
September 30th, 2008 at 5:07 pmJoseph Jibran Says:
.
.
.
September 30th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
You might appreciate the religious history of the US as shown in this U.S. House bill.
http://www.thomas.gov
Search on H.RES.888.IH.
This bill succinctly lists many facets of Christian influences and displays in the U.S. Government.
It’s fascinating.
Expect that this bill has been indefinitely tabled.
September 30th, 2008 at 5:25 pmJoseph believes you think with repetition a false statement will become true. Your link is dead, so I will run a few names by you: Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, John Adams, James Madison, Benjamen Franklin; and the Father of his Country, George Washington. And not among the former but should not be precluded Abraham Lincoln; the greatest American president, ever. I am ready and willing to listen.
Missed?….I wish such was the case. I am wondering how you managed to strangle the words of the 1st Amendment; why you demand legal documents from posters that disagree with you but appeal to private writings to support your case. You do know there are Constitution writers private correspondence that are contrary to your argument?
No one here doubts from the beginning we’ve had Christians that wanted Christianity as national religion and for America to be Christian nation rather than people of faith and nation of Christians. Now you if you want submit a text book as sound evidence then Jefferson Bible should be more than sufficient to disprove your point
Joseph wasn’t thinking about BHO, either. Sure.
Anonymous posting?…perhaps speaking for yourself. The forum name I use is also stated on my 1040. Joseph doesn’t care that you are offened or will get over it.
Very good answer……..now, what is your agreement or disagreement?
Promotion of abortion….so you say. Being single issue is incompatible with Chrsitianity, and more so, the hate which is all too often preached in America’s churches; yet white Christians are only repulsed by Rev Wright’s language. Nonetheless I cannot think of anything more asinine and repugnant than voting Republican being the acid test of person’s identity to Christ. All in all, if the only reason you will not vote for Obama is because of abortion position, I applaud you.
regards, joseph
September 30th, 2008 at 7:39 pmMy surprise or an understandable mistake is not the issue. But here is what surprises me, Bit: I can find more atheists than Christians that can make a coherent defense for the Doctrine of Trinity and give a sound reason on how Genesis had a right. What I find on the other side (read Christians); McCain completely clueless on what his Christian faith means; Palin believing man hunted or was hunted by dinosaurs,
That is not the question, that is the debate; unless you are saying you’re undecided. I am not sure what governs your argument but I am sure your thoughts are mile wide and inch deep. Should we not also ask of intention in 1789 as it pertains to slavery, universal suffrage, poll taxes, etc? Nonetheless, I am not a clairvoyant nor can I speak to the dead.
So we should assume Bit has own opinion, correct?
I got news for you, who ever leads America or any nation will most certainly be accountable to God, and so will be the rest of us. However, isn’t that the wonderful thing about American; we’re welcome to have our opinion but not impose our will on others. Kinda reminds me of what Chrsitianity is supposed to stand for. Let’s face reality, Bit; Christianity has always been and will always be miserable failure when it comes to governance, just like the religion of Islam.
Yes, and I just fell off the turnip truck…..Sure, everyone knows Thomas Jefferson was a champion of Christianity, Bible, and Church. There is no such thing as one way wall, that is merely a product of logic chopping. How is it possible to separate government interference in people’s beliefs if religion takes over the government, who will guard the guard?
regards, joseph
September 30th, 2008 at 10:00 pmYou would think that if they were calling anyone the anti-christ then it would be Bush..Not Obama! He is the one that has drove this country into the ground.
September 30th, 2008 at 11:00 pmJoseph Jibran Says:
.
.
.
September 30th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
bit has read your comments, and he’s convinced that you’ve been misled.
Here’s the wallbuilders link again.
http://www.wallbuilders.com/
The link is working fine for bit this am.
If for some reason you can’t find it, google it.
Here’s the front page quote this morning at 8:35 am CST.
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
John Adams
Which religion do you suppose he’s talking about?
October 1st, 2008 at 9:37 amJoseph Jibran Says:
.
.
.
There is no such thing as one way wall, that is merely a product of logic chopping. How is it possible to separate government interference in people’s beliefs if religion takes over the government, who will guard the guard?
.
.
.
regards, joseph
September 30th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
If it’s metaphorical wall, there certainly can be a one way wall, and Jefferson was describing the First Amendment metaphorically.
The Danbury Baptist Association, to whom Jefferson wrote the letter describing the First Amendment as a wall, was looking for assurance that the Federal Government was not going to interfere with their worship. They needed assurance that the Federal Government was not going to pick one Christian denomination over another the way many of the colonies had picked one Christian denomination to be the “state” religion.
Jefferson did not write the First Amendment, and he wasn’t part of the Constitution Convention.
That’s what the First Amendment says. We, the Federal government, are not going to establish a state religion.
Though many people describe the U.S.A. as a Christian nation, bit does not. So if you’re reading this in what bit posts, that’s what you’re doing…reading this in. bit is more concerned about the U.S.A. losing the influence of Christians and the Bible that he is about the U.S.A. becoming a so-called Christian nation.
Christian is characteristic of a person.
bit describes the U.S.A. as a nation for a Christian people.
Concerning “..the wall of separation…” as a metaphor, others have their opinions. Like this one:
Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38 (1985), [On-line], URL: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ff1#ff1.
October 1st, 2008 at 10:35 amJoseph Jibran Says:
.
.
.
regards, joseph
September 30th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
You might find this interesting.
This is the document that governed the new U.S.A. before the U.S. Constitution was written.
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel04.html
Be sure to check out the seal designs suggested by Franklin and Jefferson. They’re further down the page.
October 1st, 2008 at 11:01 amBit, are you familiar with the terms confirmation bias and superfluous arguments?
I am equally convinced you are Islamizing and Jim Jones-zing Christianity and hoping for Iran like democratic-theocracy (?) Speaking of Jim Jones, I think you may need to appoint a Christian Khalifa or Ayatollah to rule on what constitutes Christianity. Michael Travesser may be a candidate, doncha’no. Listen, Bit, I left a tyrant religion much like you seek (it’s spooky how Islamic you sound) which pervades every aspects of person’s God giving life and liberties, for the freedom in Lord Jesus. It is my faith in Christ governing me, not US laws, church laws, pastors, priests or sayings of Chairman Hagee. Unlike yourself, I do not desire the governance of what grieves the Lord; religious men or women who believe they are holier-than-thou. Perhaps you have read the Lord Jesus told those who dressed religiously, acted religiously, governed religiously and believed they had a monopoly on morality, they are headed to hell. No thanks; I don’t want your grape kool-aid.
Make that case to the comatose, most conscious people will question how your one way metaphorical wall will protect them from the reality of abuse in the name of God. The terms and definition of “one way wall” or “metaphorical wall” is nothing more than dishonest and disingenuous use of language that appeals to and is cheered by the ignorant. You have yet to answer the question, who will guard the guard? Please don’t say “Christian leader accountable to God” I trust in the One and Only and there is no person in Christianity meeting that criterion.
You’re on high-horse or dead horse but either way, it’s time to dismount.
regards, joseph
October 1st, 2008 at 6:46 pmJoseph Jibran Says:
.
.
.
October 1st, 2008 at 6:46 pm
In short, bit can see nothing in himself that you describe.
A Christian nation and a nation for Christian people, are not the same thing.
A nation for a Christian people means a nation where the the predominant influence is from Christian people. bit doesn’t intend for this to mean Christianity is in control, and this is the reason for not answering the “who will guard the guard” question.
The references to the history of our nation are to suggest that the reason we, the U.S., got to where we are is because of the influence of Christianity. This is bit’s belief. Other TP posters can find no positive influence of our faith in the U.S.
bit is certainly not looking for a “democratic-theocracy” nation.
You don’t seem to understand, Joseph, that bit’s posts are about the consequences of the influence of Christianity being completely remove from the U.S., which is what many TP posters want. In bit’s eyes many of the consequences are now being manifest. bit’s post are more about Christianity surviving in U.S. rather that taking over the U.S.
Nonetheless, bit likes your style and what you have to say about faith in Christ. So, he hopes you keep posting.
October 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 am