Financial Bailout Deal Fails 205-228 (Updated)
Financial Bailout Deal Fails 205-228 (Updated)
The Congress has just voted down the proposed bipartisan bailout package. 95 Democrats and 133 Republicans rejected the plan:
The Roll Call vote is here.
The vote failed in part because the Republican leadership failed to deliver the 70-100 votes needed from the conservative side. Before the vote, House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) implored his GOP colleagues to vote in favor of the negotiated bailout proposal, almost breaking down into tears. Watch it:
When asked what might happen if the $700 billion dollar rescue plan failed to pass, billionaire investor Warren Buffett said today, “Heaven help us.” The Dow Jones Industrial Average “dropped more than 700 points as ‘no’ votes mounted,” later stabilizing around 500 points.
UPDATE: Yglesias: “Given that the House GOP didn’t deliver the 80 (or whatever) votes that Democrats were making substantive concessions in order to achieve, now I really don’t see why the Democratic leadership doesn’t tear this thing up and start writing a progressive bill. Not only might that produce a good outcome in the end, but it also seems to me like the thing that would be most likely to convince recalcitrant House Republicans to get with the program in order to preempt something more left-wing.”
UPDATE II: Rich Lowry says Pelosi is at fault because she gave a “partisan speech” prior to the vote. In a GOP press conference, Reps. Boehner and Eric Cantor made the same argument.
UPDATE III: View Pelosi’s speech here. Her speech mentions the word “Republican” once: “Over the past several days, we have worked with our Republican colleagues to fashion an alternative to the original plan of the Bush Administration.”
UPDATE IV: After looking at Pelosi’s speech, CNN’s Ed Henry said he couldn’t “find the partisan thing that they say sort of inflamed Republican members.” Watch it:
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I thought McCain suspended his campaign to lead his party to this agreement. Quite a leader, that guy
September 29th, 2008 at 2:14 pmTime for John “I’ve never been afraid of stepping in to solve problems for the American people and I’m not going to stop now.” McCain to “suspend” his campaign again?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:14 pmI, for one, am glad. It will be hard rough road with or without the bailout–but, I believe, in the long term, better without–and many economists agree.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:15 pmMaybe realizing exactly what this type of leadership has brought us is necessary. Truthfully, the horrors of war, poverty, unemployment, etc. escape many Americans. Our world is rich, while others struggle for water.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:16 pmWell, we’ll see whether this is going to cause the market to tank, or if this was just smoke, mirrors and scary stuff.
I’m ready to grab my retirement fund and run…
September 29th, 2008 at 2:16 pmHad they couched this as “Hey, Mr & Ms consumer? Are you planning to buy a new or used car in the next year?”
Casue without this action, the chances are pretty good that you won’t.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:19 pmI do not trust “Bawlin Johh” Boehner.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:20 pmWall Street didn’t price risk adequately the last 5-6 years. Uncle Sam proposed to take a big chunk of it, in an effort to prevent a major interest rate resetting.
Expect borrowing rates to soar.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:23 pmTracy__5 Says:
95 Democrats voted nea. Pelosi sure did deliver.
Trace,
what you are seeing is how a true bi-partisan system works in this county. The days of the DeLay “Hammer” tactics are gone. We will see members vote their conscience and what their constituents want them to.
This is a very complex and difficult issue, and there is no one ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ answer.
Get used to it.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:25 pmI too am glad it failed. Let their precious free markets take care of it. Enabling this now will make it worse, not better, in the long run.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:25 pmNo matter how this bailout fiasco turns out, remember:
THE REPUBLICANS OWN THIS MESS.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:25 pmTime for HOLC and trickle up economics!
September 29th, 2008 at 2:26 pm“The vote failed in part because the Republican leadership failed to deliver the 70-100 votes needed from the conservative side.”
Trolls? Care to defend this? This is YOUR administration and YOUR representation that have been carrying out the economic policies that YOU wanted.
What’s the matter – hiding under your beds again?
You are all cowards. Yellow, pee-soaked cowards.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pmThe democrats AND republicans that were listening to their phones ring off the hook killed this.
Over the past 8 years the Wall Street wealthy and the Industrial Military Complex have raked in many many billions of dollars…
It is time they put it back into the system or else they should go to jail asap for FRAUD.
WE didnt do this. THEY did. They should pay for it. I sat there years ago watching the rediculous commercials offering $100,000s for morgages being given out like candy… it seemed like a scam to me …and it was after all.
Years ago NPR and others reported that appraisers were being pressured to falsify their estimates to jack up the values of homes… it was FRAUD.
Given them a choice… caugh up the money you made off FRAUD or go to jail… dont make We the People pay for your FRAUD…
September 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pm>THE REPUBLICANS OWN THIS MESS.
Right. And I really, really, hope that the dem leadership is somehow, someway, for once playing it smart, sandbagging this, and letting the collapse happen.
There is no doubt in my mind that bush is trying to get the dems to help bail him out and allowing the republicans to use their help to try and score points on the campaign trail.
Im no economist, but my lay opinion is that I think the financial devastation will be inevitable, based on the idiotic policies of de-regulation
September 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pmthis administration has persued, and the only thing this bailout will do is punt the coming economic choas down to the next president..
Not being an expert on the economy, I was never sure whether or not such a bill would help resolve the credit crisis. I can see adding liquidity to the markets, but liquidity needs to be added from the bottom up, as well. That’s a jobs program, for instance. A Manhattan style project to green America, which would impact almost every industry…energy and construction especially. Money in the peoples’ pockets that would allow them to pay their mortgages and other debts should be a number one step. Not money GIVEN to people, but real jobs. But as that idea was not floated as THE solution…
This bill failed to pass with 67% of the Republicans, and 40% of the Democrats voting against it. It think that large percentage of Dems with a no vote surprised people…including the Dem leadership. Pelosi and Hoyer should have known about it before the vote, but evidently didn’t.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pm> The Republicans wanted this to barely pass
> so they could hang it around the necks
> of the Democrats.
Bingo. I hope to god enough democrats are smart enough to figure this out..
September 29th, 2008 at 2:31 pm.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=235
Monday, September 29th, 2008
The Rich Are Staging a Coup This Morning …a message from Michael Moore
.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:31 pmBoth parties have enough blame on this. More than one Liberal Blog (ie Daily Kos) railed against it. Yeah the repulicans might own this mess, but there’s enough blame on both parties. Not passing it was stupid, both economicly and politcally. You know McNumbnuts, now gets to put his Superman cape on again…Obama better beat him to it, or the ‘big” issue, it’s the economy stupid, just might wind up McNunbnuts.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:32 pmSo what did the Republicans (and a bunch of Democrats) vote against, exactly?
The $700 billion total would be broken into stages, with an immediate $250 billion made available to Wall Street, followed by an additional $100 billion released anytime at the request of the president, followed by a remaining $350 billion made available by Congress.
- Congress could disapprove the last $350 billion, but only through a disapproval resolution that would be subject to a presidential veto. There is no timetable for the remaining $350 billion, meaning that the entire $700 billion could be made available quickly and simultaneously.
- House Republicans’ idea for an insurance pool to protect mortgage-backed securities = expanded to include other troubled assets – and funded by premiums on financial institutions is in the plan, supervised by Treasury officials who will set premiums. The program would be voluntary for companies.
- Taxpayer equity in the companies, intended to let taxpayers recover their investment as the companies recover.
- Executive pay limits intended to prevent “golden parachute” scenarios for the executives of failed companies.
- An oversight board would be established, with seats for the Treasury Department secretary, Securities and Exchange Commission chairman, Commerce Department secretary and Federal Reserve chairman.
(the guys who ignored the problem for over a year)
- Bankruptcy provisions for which Democrats had fought hard are not in the plan. Known as “cram-downs,” the provisions would have allowed bankruptcy judges authority to revise the terms of mortgages.
(http://www.truthout.org/092808B)
This does seem to be a crap sandwich–there’s nothing good in this (going by the above only) that I can see, but I wonder what the for and against votes were actually for and/or against?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:32 pmBuckle those seat belts, the roller coaster ride is about to begin.
Thank George “Hoover” Bush and the Deregulating Republicans for the upcoming crash and burn.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:34 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
If Congress and the president think we have $700,000,000,000.00 to fluff the CEO’s with, what’s this about a National Health Care Bill being socialized medicine? I mean, if there’s enough money to pay off the rich, why isn’t there enough money to help Americans?
.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:34 pmBoehner and Blount are blaming Pelosi for the vote. One said it’s about the economy, not Republican or Democrat, yet his followers took offense at Nancy’s speech.
Doesn’t that make it about politics and not the economy?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:35 pmThe official Republican EXCUSE (excusemaking has become their only product over the last 20 years)
“that mean nancy pelosi hurt our sissy-baby feelings with her speech, so we had to vote against the bill”
What incredible sissies.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:36 pmWhat lameass excusemakers.
Republican’s are sticking to the talking point that they would have voted for this, if only Nancy hadn’t given a speech.
It’s madness!
September 29th, 2008 at 2:37 pmthat Kantor from VA is a bigger crybaby than crocodile tears Boehner.
I’d be ashamed to be their Dads.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:38 pmhttp://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/news/economy/financial_rescue_101/index.htm
If any of these “investments” had a chance of paying off, so you think the Wall St. “investors” would want to push them off onto the taxpayers?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:38 pmCantor blames everyone else, putz! Yes, it was about politics and not the economy.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:38 pmA program with too little oversight, too little control and too few limitations on Executive Compensation got shot down. This will cause problems but, hopefully, better and more comprehensive legislation will come from this. Congress got an earfull from angry voters who, Finally, are speaking up. Hopefully Congress will remember the first Great Depression and revisit that legislation that they helped repeal. It will be a tough choice, but these are the times that try men’s souls.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:39 pmImpeach Cheney and Bush and Save the Constitution!
Impeach Palin and Restore the Rule of Law!
“I really don’t see why the Democratic leadership doesn’t tear this thing up and start writing a progressive bill.” – Yglesias
Here’s why from Glenn Greenwald.
On the most consequential and fundamental questions that define the country, the establishment/leadership of both political parties are in full agreement, and insulate themselves from any political ramifications by acting jointly. Democrats in particular jump eagerly into line when told they must cooperate with the White House to avert whatever the Disaster du Jour is (and in this case, House Republicans were most impressive in defying these orders until they, too, were basically whipped into line), but ultimately, the differences between the parties at the level of their leadership are impossible to detect.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:40 pmThis is the most blatantly partisan report I’ve seen. There is not mention that the bill failed because many Dems also voted against it. If that error goes unfixed I’ll be forced to mention you in the same breath as Fox news as political shills.
Progressives are supposed to be above this crap, that’s why I like them, usually.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:40 pm>BULL!!!!!
Brilliant reasoning as usual trace. Between Bush, blue dogs faux democrats in congress who vote with the republicans when the price is right, and lieberman, you guys have been running every aspect of this show for the past 8 years. Your heroes money-grubbing ponzi schemes are coming home to roost…
September 29th, 2008 at 2:40 pmCNBC reported, “No word from John McCain!”
September 29th, 2008 at 2:40 pmThis is just terrible, I can believe this could actually happen. My heart and prays go out to those that have their
September 29th, 2008 at 2:41 pmlife savings and homes on the line.
For me, I guess today is the only day I will not feel so
bad I don’t have any investments.
I guess the Chymp’s Wall St. buddies will flooding tears in their beers tonight.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:41 pmI disagree with conservatives on everything or everything I can think of. However, I admire the fact that right or wrong, they stand up for what they believe in and damn the consequences. They are almost always wrong, but they have backbone.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:41 pmIt’s all boehner’s fault. If he had broke down and had a fit crying like he’s done before, they would have voted yes just to shut him up.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:43 pm37- The D’s didn’t supply all the votes, but the supplied enough votes – that is what a bi-partisan resolution should look like – “we’ll pony up half our guys, and you pony up half of yours”.
R’s went back on their word and didn’t supply the # of votes they knew would be necessary adn that they agreed they’d supply.
It’s called COMPROMISE – Look it up and cool your jets.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:43 pmGet ready for Cheney’s Sequel : 9/11 Part deux
September 29th, 2008 at 2:44 pmIt would be wonderful to see the ‘free markets’ pay the price for their foolishness if only the ‘free markets’ were some kind of separate entity which had no bearing on our lives. Sadly, that’s not the case. When the markets suffer, we all suffer. Here’s a little of what we may have to do without in the near future: new/used cars; college loans; new homes, home improvements, and home repairs; pensions and retirement funds; and for many of us, jobs. Sound like fun? Do you need a new roof? Is your kid a senior in high school? Is your car reaching the end of its life?
The bailout bill was flawed, but it was vastly improved over the original ‘plan’ by Paulson, and was, I suspect, better than nothing. I hope I’m wrong, because my kitchen needs serious work, my kid’s a junior in high school, and my husband’s hoping to retire within the next five years.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:47 pmphaedrus Says:
This is the most blatantly partisan report I’ve seen. There is not mention that the bill failed because many Dems also voted against it. If that error goes unfixed I’ll be forced to mention you in the same breath as Fox news as political shills.
Progressives are supposed to be above this crap, that’s why I like them, usually.
Pelosi warned the Republicans if they cannot pony up 100 votes it won’t pass, and guess what happened….
How is that TP’s fault?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:48 pmI wonder if behind the scenes they are just squabbling about who’s going to get what amount. With that amount of free money everyone wants to have the lion’s share for themselves and their friends. These people make me sick.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:48 pm.
Citigroup to buy Wachovia banking operations
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/ap_on_bi_ge/wachovia_citigroup
.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:48 pm#46 ~ SEE INTEREST RATES (ARTIFICIALLY DEPRESSED GREENSPAN 2002 – 2006)…
September 29th, 2008 at 2:48 pmMaybe Rumsfeld will “find” the 3.2TRILLION missing from the Pentagon on 9/10/01 that everyone forgot about. They could use this.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:48 pmYou actually think that the problems with the financials started in 2001?
Whose names are on the deregulation legislation?
Three republicans – or didn’t you know?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:49 pmAn oversight board would be established, with seats for the Treasury Department secretary, Securities and Exchange Commission chairman, Commerce Department secretary and Federal Reserve chairman.
The “oversight” board with the same people on it that overlooked the impending crisis is a no-go for me. It doesn’t even make any sense. These are the people that will be mandated to exercise regulatory rules, and the Treasury Sec is the guy doing all the buying. What kind of oversight it THAT? The oversight board should include non-partisan economists…EXPERTS, who will not have a hand in the actual distribution of the $700 billion. The appropriate committees in the House and Senate should interact with the oversight board.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:49 pmThe thing that really really scares me, is there is a financial collapse and Dumbya and Darth Cheney declare martial law and the SCOTUS backs them up…not that should get some votes for it!!!lol
September 29th, 2008 at 2:49 pmI guess we need St John to phone in the answer. Where is St John when we need him?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:49 pmLet freedom rin……
I mean, let chaos ring!
I was planning on dropping dead on the job anyways, so what me worry?
Wait! I have the answer:
CANCEL THE VP DEBATES!!
Yeah, that’s the ticket!
September 29th, 2008 at 2:50 pm#52
(oops. 2.3TRILLION)
September 29th, 2008 at 2:50 pmTracy__5 Says:
#38
“…you guys have been running every aspect of this show for the past 8 years.”
You actually think that the problems with the financials started in 2001?
Watch, this is tracy’s precursor to blaming Clinton, or the democratic Congress, even though it was Bush who was lax on enforcing regulations on the market.
This troll is so predictable
September 29th, 2008 at 2:50 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
Could drowning American economics in the bathtub include come at the expense of Multi conglomerate mergers?
1/3 of ALL Americans savings are now in the hands of 3 banking institutions…
… I smell major Corporate consolidation.
.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:52 pmTracy__5 Says:
Perhaps the logic circuit is damaged on the Mark 5 model.
When is the new 6 model supposed to be hitting the boards?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:54 pmThe two areas that are out of kilter, subprime mortgages and credit derivates, grew by leaps and bounds since 2001.
http://stateofthedivision.blogspot.com/2008/09/mccain-wants-to-spread-underwater-pain.html
Credit default swaps reached $62 trillion, when they were in the tens of billions a decade ago. At least Senator Elizabeth Dole said such in the Senate Banking Committee.
Keep learning Tracy__5! Research credit default swaps and off balance sheet items.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:54 pmThe investment banks are the ones holding worthless paper… not people asking for car loans… people asking for loans at our level work and pay back what we borrow… the investment banks commited FRAUD… and sold FRAUDulent paper to others. Bailout those that invested in this paper and take to court those that commited this FRAUD… penalties include ALL their money and jail time.. THAT is what a true FREE MARKET would do… punish law breakers… gamblers that take risks LOSE their money… the rest of us that dont do these things go on with our lives.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:56 pmhaven’t seen this – though i’m not able to pay close attention:
listening to ed – did you know that it is UNconstitutional for an elected official to have oversight of this type of plan.
something found out in the process of these negotiations…
TP, someone – please elaborate?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:56 pmFINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 674
September 29th, 2008 at 2:56 pmWhy doesn’t Johnny Boy ask Phil Gramm what to do? He’s Johnny’s expert isn’t he?
Oh wait, that dumbfck was the one who pushed the deregulation that brought on this collapse. Never mind.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:56 pmThis all sort of points to an inevitable coming on of another Great Depression, the 700B will not fix what is so severally broken that it can’t be fixed.
Get your camp gear ready, you just might be needing it real soon.
September 29th, 2008 at 2:57 pmBoehner blames Pelosi?!?!?! These chicken$h!ts won’t take responsibility for anything. You don’t suppose Boehner’s characterization of the bill as a “crap sandwich” had anything to do with its failure do you?
September 29th, 2008 at 3:01 pmThis was all designed so the Big Destroyer (Bush) could line his Wall St. buddie’s coffers on the way out.
It’s not rocket science.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:01 pmThe value of these credit derivates etc were FRAUDulently estimated to be worth more and more and more until they were in the many 10s of TRILLIONS of dollars… 700 billion wont pay that all off.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:02 pmTracy__5 Says:
You actually think that the problems with the financials started in 2001?
September 29th, 2008 at 2:45 pm Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
I do know that the (shivers) Community Development Act (shivers) was weakened from that point, throwing to shit the recent favorite wingnut talking point.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:02 pm42 – No they don’t, and they never did. They are a dog that wags it’s tail right up until it bites you. There is nothing to admire in their ideology or their acumen.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:04 pmSorry, I’m sitting here with my guidedog. Bush and right wingers like the abysmal T1-99, never cared about the disabled or the fragile elderly in this country.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:04 pmSo,even if it sounds selfish, f##k all the wall street fat cats and T5’s of the world.
tony and lido
Weren’t things going better before McCain got went to DC? Whatever happens now it’s on his shoulders.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:05 pmThe house.gov servers are slammed. Response times are in the minutes if it loads at all.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:05 pmHere is a solution that is circulating the internet:
> Hi Pals,
September 29th, 2008 at 3:06 pm> I’m against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
> Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We
> Deserve It Dividend.
> To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide
> U.S. Citizens 18+.
> Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and
> child.. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
> So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals
> $425,000.00.
> My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It
> Dividend..
> Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
> So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%.
> Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
> That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
> But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
> A husband and wife has $595,000.00.
> What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
> Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.
> Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads
> Put away money for college – it’ll be there
> Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
> Buy a new car – create jobs
> Invest in the market – capital drives growth
> Pay for your parent’s medical insurance – health care improves
> Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else
> Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks
> who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that
> is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed
> Forces.
> If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s really do it…instead
> of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( ‘vote buy’ ) economic incentive
> that is being proposed
> by one of our candidates for President.
> If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail out every
> adult U S Citizen 18+!
> As for AIG – liquidate it.
> Sell off its parts.
> Let American General go back to being American General.
> Sell off the real estate.
> Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
> Here’s my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn’t.
> Sure it’s a crazy idea that can ‘never work.’
> But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block P arty!
> How do you spell Economic Boom?
> I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
> We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in
> Washington DC
> And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because
> $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
*
THE REPUBLICANS OWN THIS MESS.
*
September 29th, 2008 at 3:06 pmMaybe if McCain would have offered Palin as a raffle prize for those Republicans who voted “yes” for the bailout package, it would have succeeded with ease.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:07 pm*
“FAILED BUSH ECONOMIC POLICY”
*
September 29th, 2008 at 3:08 pmLOL The “Solution” I copied has bad math. Sorry for the long pointless post.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:09 pmThrowing money to the top will not make these remorseful greedsters learn their lesson and start giving a damn about the retirement accounts etc. they manage.
Truth is, your not going to revive the economy by keeping name brands afloat, you have to put a halt to the suffering of the individuals holding assets in these companies, about to lose their homes, experience job losses. It even boils down to the child who can’t go to school with full supplies because mom and dad are out of work and scrimping.
If the taxpayers are going to see their money spent to the tune of $700 billion, they will need to see it work for them.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:14 pmExcuse my language, but Bush’s Corporate Wall St. Buddies have Financially Raped this country. I am glad this bail-out failed. We’ve been living in a false economy the last 8 years. It’s time to wake up and get our civilian economy back.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:15 pmAmerica’s Military budget is 48% of the entire world’s military budget.
There should be NO MONEY AT ALL for any bailouts of any kind without a clear and specific (to the penny) explanation of WHO gets the money, WHAT it is to be used for, and HOW that will help the economy. Non-partisan regulators to oversee that it is used as declared. Investigations and criminal prosecutions of any and all illegal activity in the matters leading up to this. And the money back to America WITH INTEREST (these are, mostly, savings and loans, right? I didn’t hear any of them offering interest-free loans with options to not pay it all back).
Just sayin’.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:16 pm> You actually think that the problems
> with the financials started in 2001?
Before 2001 laws and regulations against greedy actions by rich people were actually being enforced. with this administration? not so much….(or, at all, really)
September 29th, 2008 at 3:17 pmTracy__5 Says:
“THE REPUBLICANS OWN THIS MESS.”
BULL!!!!!
So how is this NOT the Republican’s fault? It happened under a Republican President. It happened because the Republicans have been deregulating the financial market for years. It happened because the Republicans who run Wall Street are a bunch of crooks.
So, how is it NOT the Republicans fault?
September 29th, 2008 at 3:20 pm*
“THE GREATEST HEIST IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND”
*
… once again, it’s history, folks…
.
and nancy’s truthiness hurt the repugs feelings…
it’s all her fault, the dishonest ones say…
the honest ones say they feared for their jobs…
(h/t randi)
September 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pmWhose going to bail-out Bush this time? It’s been the story of his life and so it continues on!
September 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pmSo…. if the Reps had delivered 5 more votes to reach the promised threshold of 70, the bill still would not have passed. Would the headline have read – Dems fail to support bailout bill?
No, putting the blame on the failure of this bill totally on the Reps, when 40% of Dems voted against is purely partisan spin.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pmThis is good news for our country. Congress can do much better – there’s absolutely no reason to rush this.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pmThe more I hear about this plan the more I oppose it. Apparently this is exactly what Hoover did to stave off the Great Depression, and it only worked for months before all of the banks collapsed anyway.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:23 pmThen FDR was elected and purchased the bad mortgages allowing people to keep their homes. Also, in Britain, under similar circumstances the gov’t took over the companies they bailed out and owned them.
This is nothing more than a giveaway to the financial markets, or Bush’s “base.”
What bull.
#82 Kay,
To put it in perspective:
The US military budget is larger than how many of the countries of the rest of the world combined?
A: The US military budget of $623 billion is larger than the budgets of all the countries in the rest of the world put together. The total global military budget of the rest of the world is $500 billion. Russia’s military budget is $50 billion, South Koreas is $21 billion, and Irons is $4.3 billion. GlobalSecurity.org.
Or how about this:
1n 1965, CEOs in major companies made 24 times more than the average worker. In 1980, CEOs made 40 times more than the average worker. In 2007, CEOs earned how many times more than the average worker?
A: Today’s average CEO from a Fortune 500 company makes 364 times an average worker’s pay and over 70 times the pay of a four-star Army general. Executive Excess 2007, page 7, jointly published by Institute for Policy Studies and United for Fair Economy, August 29, 2007. The 1965 numbers from State of Working America 2004-2005, Economic Policy Institute.
For more fun facts, check out this social quiz at The Zoo
September 29th, 2008 at 3:27 pmAll I can say is that I am very glad all my retirement savings and my mortgage are with my Credit Union. My Credit Union has foreclosed on exactly one property in the last 50 years.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:29 pmFor 8 years Bush’s buddies have had a party and what a party!
And now it’s time to pay the piper.
Everything this man come in contact with: he destroys.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:29 pmThe Great Destroyer.
Barney Frank was hillarious about the poor crybaby GOP dirtbags. Because wimpy Nancy called them names and told the truth, they decided to make the entire COUNTRY suffer. what a bunch of puzzies. What happended to the men of the GOP. I certainly can see that John and W are NO LEADERS. they cannot even lead the group that backs them, how is John McBush going to lead the ENTIRE country.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:31 pmHey Phaedrus, go listen to Rush for Faux News. They’ll feed you the lies you’re so desperate to hear.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:33 pmThat’s what I’m saying, Shayne. Fauz news spins things for partisan gain, everyone knows that and no one with discernment bases accepts what they say. I hurts me to see liberal news outlets do the same.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:35 pmTHE REPUBLICANS OWN THIS MESS.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:37 pmGGibson, credit default swaps only come due when company fails. A swap on $10 million in Lehman Brothers means the holder ponies up that amount should Lehman go bankrupt. Last year investment house CDS’s sold for $100,000. Ten days ago, they cost $900,000.
AIG held a bunch of swaps on other companies, but didn’t reserve adequate funds. They didn’t set aside money to pay for failures.
Paulson and Bernake said in their testimony that the credit derivative market wasn’t able to deliver on their promises. If you or I sold a product and service and didn’t come through, we’d be arrested for fraud. Not the swap holders.
When Lehman failed, swaps or “the insurance” came due. It scared alot of folks.
That became a market changer. The remaining Wall Street houses package swap “peace of mind” with their credit. The cost of swaps soared 8 times last summers level. This meant pay day loan like effective interest rates.
Big boys don’t pay that level, so credit dried up. The money houses quit lending to each other. They saw too much risk in their peers.
Uncle Sam voted to not pick up that risk, at least not yet. We have panic selling on the exchanges.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:40 pmWow.
The Republicans were the less despicable party on this vote.
Democrat assholes are clearly in bed with the big money interest (and Bush).
Help Cindy Sheehan remove Nancy Pelosi from Congress.
Impeachment and war crimes prosecutions need to go back on the table.
The duopoly/corporate state would like your grandchildren’s money. Are you going to give it to them?
ARREST THEM ALL.
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/
September 29th, 2008 at 3:55 pmWTF? How is it a partisan “attack” if the story says, “The vote failed in part because the Republican leadership failed to deliver the 70-100 votes needed from the conservative side“? Especially when the updates include the Republican response that Pelosi torpedoed the deal by her remarks?
September 29th, 2008 at 3:57 pmTHE REPUBLICANS OWN THIS MESS.
THE REPUBLICANS OWN THIS MESS.
THE REPUBLICANS OWN THIS MESS.
THE REPUBLICANS OWN THIS MESS.
I figure we can’t say this too often. ;o)
September 29th, 2008 at 3:59 pmThe republicans just single-handedly voted themselves out of the White House with this vote, come November.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:59 pm#100, because that is factually false. If the Reps had provided 70 votes, the bill still would have failed. Pointing out the the Reps didn’t pony up the votes without also pointing out the lukewarm participation of the Dems (40% Nay) is being partisan.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:05 pmScrap the bailout–push HOLC II!!!!!!!!!!!
September 29th, 2008 at 4:11 pmTracy__5 Says:
“THE REPUBLICANS OWN THIS MESS.”
BULL!!!!!
September 29th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Hey, that’s almost as succinct an argument as “Oh yeah!?”
Well done, dipshit.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:16 pmHow it must suck to be a troll. It’s bad enough to be cursed with a stunted intellect and warped desires but to see all that one worships crumble into decay? That’s gotta hurt.
Here’s the deal trolls. What we are witnessing is the culmination of decades long efforts to rig the economy so that a select few collect all the profit. And, since those select few make the decisions, they gear their operations to maximize profit at all expense. That’s where greed must be tempered, if not by reason, then by oversight.
So, the oversight has been systematically reduced and, since Bushco assumed control, virtually abandoned. Make no mistake. If existing regulations had been competently enforced while proactive actions had been taken this disaster could have been lessened if not averted.
Do Democratic lawmakers bear some of the blame? Yes. However, one can not understate the level of stubborn denial in Bushco’s Federal Reserve and economic policies. Most non-partisan economists have been screaming their heads off since Chimpy took office and Rebublicans have successfully blocked any chance of reform since 06.
Meanwhile, despite the knowledge of all the bad debt, Chimpy’s Federal Reserve kept gambling by lowering interest rates and encouraging more debt. And, apparently, no one ever thought to tell banks “NO!”. So? No matter how you add it up, Bushco and Republican lawmakers, going back decades and with the aid of many Dems, have dropped this ball as spectacularly as the invasion of Iraq. They not only own the crisis today. They’ll own it for all history.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:17 pm#106
Dude, this is right in the middle of your screed :
“No matter how you add it up, Bushco and Republican lawmakers, going back decades and with the aid of many Dems”
Now, that’s being honest, it’s MOSTLY the Reps fault, but many Dems have screwed things up too. If this article’s reporting had made the same observation I would have no beef, but blaming the failure ONLY on Reps not giving X amount of votes ignores that 40% Dems voted against it as well. That’s partisan spin.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:34 pmUm, phaedrus? You do realize that this was a version of the plan submitted by the White House? And you do realize that Chimpy and Boner were urging Reps to vote for it and were, in fact, counting on party loyalty? And you do realize that the House Reps voted against their President and Party leadership?
I guess I fail to see why it would be necessary to say anything other than “The vote failed in part because the Republican leadership failed to deliver the 70-100 votes needed from the conservative side“. And it’s most certainly not inaccurate.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:36 pm107, blaming the failure ONLY on Reps not giving X amount of votes ignores that 40% Dems voted against it as well. That’s partisan spin.
In the words of your benevolent VP…
SO?
September 29th, 2008 at 4:41 pmThe use of “in part” as a qualifier makes it implicit that Republicans are not solely to “blame” for the bill’s failure and, in fact, I don’t see any opinion offered on the bill’s merits. Though one could draw the conclusion that the majority of House Republicans don’t share the opinions of the party leadership.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:43 pmActually, that is inaccurate. The conservative side would have needed more than 70 votes.
It would have been just as accurate to say, “the vote failed in part because the Democratic leadership failed to deliver the (put in numbers here) votes needed from the liberal side”. (please ignore the false linking of R=Conservative, D=liberal). Everyone here would have recognized THAT as spin.
Here’s what MotherJones said :
“Maybe the problem was that the bill was not very good and that a bipartisan majority (for very different reasons) couldn’t swallow it. Now members of Congress are considering another vote (on what might be another version of the bill) later in the week. In the meantime, expect lots of spin.”
Seems the most accurate of all, to me.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:44 pmTracy__5 Says:
#105
“Hey, that’s almost as succinct an argument as “Oh yeah!?””
It’s far more truthful than “THE REPUBLICAN OWN THIS MESS”.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Prove it.
Start with Ronald Reagan’s deregulation hard on.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:05 pmTo all appearances, the House actually functioned as it should and voted down a bad piece of legislation on it’s merits despite strong pressure to pass it. Perhaps we should be saluting the people from both sides of the aisle who voted “no”? Anyway, it’s still accurate to say that the bill failed, “in part”, because the GOP leadership didn’t get the lockstep panic vote they wanted.
Personally. I don’t want this gang of idiots to pass any long-term legislation. This administration and this congress have proven incompetent, regardless of who’s fault it is.
And you’ll have to do better than that TraTroll. Bushco still controls the Federal Reserve and the SEC. And all attempts to reign them in, including since the Dems have a had a nominal majority, have been blocked.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:06 pm>Yes and for the last two years the
>Dems have been in charge of the financial
> and banking committees.
Comitees dont enact laws you twit. For all intents and purposes, republicans control both chambers, or at the very least have enough sentate pull to obsctruct anything they want. You guys have set the record for fillibustering this term. You want to name all the economic legislation penned by democrats and enacted into law the last 8 years.
> Everyone is to blame here both Republicans and Democrats.
ah, welcome to the new republican meme, once it gets impossible for even THEM to deny reality….”mommy, its everyones fault”
sorry pal, these past 8 years have pretty much been all you guys calling the shots, and blocking everything else..
September 29th, 2008 at 5:32 pm>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act
hey trac, your showing about as much debating skill as your hero Palin..remind us of your educational pedigree again?
September 29th, 2008 at 5:35 pm>What attempts?
So now tracy the moron blames democrats for not doing enough to undo the damage his idiot heroes did to the country..
September 29th, 2008 at 5:36 pmTracy__5 Says:
“Prove it.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act
September 29th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
You don’t prove ANYTHING with a Wiki link, moron.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:36 pm>Pressure from Democrats to loosen
> lending restrictions
awww Tracy did those mean democrats put a gun to the poor lending companies head and force them to make questionable loans?
besides, isnt loosening restrictions on businesses all what you “free market” types are about? or only when republicans do it..
September 29th, 2008 at 5:39 pmTracy__5 Says:
BTW the pushing for home loans to people had no business taking them on was a Democrat effort.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Show where the Dems forced the few regulators we had left to fail to do their jobs.
No Wiki links.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:41 pmTracy__5 Says:
I know it’s complicated but even with your limited education you can read and understand this….I hope.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
I understand that you’re incapable of backing up anything you say.
Loser.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:41 pm>Cite specific legislation in regard to this financial crisis >that the Dems tried to pass and the Republicans blocked.
im talking about the entirety of the financial mess you twit. im pretty sure trying to get rid of corporate wellfare and stopping massive payouts to big oil would help with the horrendous deficit bush ran up.
your argument basically revolves around “your has bad as me because you didnt try hard enough to stop me”…..once again, perfect republican attempt to shift the blame..
September 29th, 2008 at 5:44 pm>No, I am blaming Democrats for doing NOTHING.
Have the stats about how much fillibustering and threatened fillibustering your side has been doing recently?
September 29th, 2008 at 5:45 pm> I know it’s complicated but even
> with your limited education
I’ve seen the Z lady use enough big fancy 5 dollar words to make me seriously doubt your educational pedigree could stand up to hers. Where exactly did you go to school again?
September 29th, 2008 at 5:46 pmFunny how things work. For as long as they could, Bush supported would talk about the wonders of the Bush economy and give him credit for the supposed economic boom.
But now that it’s hit the fan, it’s the Democrats fault.
I say, if Bush is going to take the credit, he should also shoulder the blame.
Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan -as the saying goes.
September 29th, 2008 at 5:56 pmAh! The famous “they had no right to own a house” fallacy. While it’s true that foreclosures are up, that’s not solely because of people making bad investments. What one must consider is that the bad investment made by banks has led to a lack of liquidity. These banks would be refinancing, instead of foreclosing, if they could make their own payments. Plus they have exacerbated the problem by bundling debt. Many “bad” loans are not in default and the owners are in their homes and making payments but, the bank who holds the paper is insolvent.
Then one must consider the overall collapse of the economy in the face of the outright denial by our leaders and media. Going to war without a “war economy” bears it’s share of blame plus the government could have taken more proactive steps if it were not so financially strained by Bushco’s policies. One mustn’t forget the effect on the dollar and energy/food prices too.
And as for those relative few who made bad personal decisions, as opposed to being caught by circumstance, many of them would be able to restructure their debt if their bank had made better decisions.
A good ana!ogy would be a bar owner. If one person is served too much and causes an accident? One could find little fault with the owner. Stuff happens. But, if several people a day get into their cars staggering drunk? It’s time to assume the owner is the problem. And if it’s not stopped? It’s time to blame the cop on the beat.
September 29th, 2008 at 6:12 pmGood!!!!!!!
September 29th, 2008 at 6:38 pmPlus, around these parts, single family homes are hurting but holding out. It’s the, condos, duplex’s, townhomes, and even some apartment buildings, along with other commercial properties that are in jeopardy or standing vacant. They aren’t the typical self-owned single family homes.
And it seems that nationally many of the individual homes in foreclosure are second homes, “upgrades”, and rentals. I don’t recall the source so I won’t quote a figure but I was surprised at how few of the “bad debts” are single family homes. Once again, these must be subtracted from those who made bad decisions based on the data they received.
There are those who wish to pin the collapse on those who just skipped a payment or two to splurge at Walmart and then got caught by food/gas and credit cards but, that’s simply not the truth in many cases.
And blaming irresponsible home buyers is ludicrous when the whole economy has been crumbling since the day Chimpy was elected and our credit rating went down internationally. Claiming such a thing would, in fact, display a profound ignorance of the financial trends and policies in this country over the last four decades or so.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:09 pmBlaming ONLY irresponsible home buyers would be ludicris tec.
Excuse the Hell out of me, you vapid, simple, tit.
September 29th, 2008 at 7:42 pmGet the names of the 95 brave democrats and 133 republicans and publish them across the land as leaders to send back to Washington. Fire the rest by voting the bums out! Party aside, 205 congressional scoundrels, lead by Nancy “Pelousy”, nearly sold you and me and our great, great, great grandchildren into indentured servitude! Let the American public decide who else to send to represent them, but have a litmus test and press their candidate to see if the rep will vote to sell out the American taxpayer. Time for another tea party, come November 4th!
September 29th, 2008 at 7:47 pmQuizmos:
September 29th, 2008 at 8:01 pmI happened to catch Chuck Todd on NBC news saying that the vote broke very sharply along lines of current/recent and close elections. Those who are fighting/have recently fought for re-election in a close battle voted against the bailout because their constituents loudly raised their voices in opposition. Very interesting, huh?
Quizmos Says:
Get the names of the 95 brave democrats and 133 republicans and publish them across the land as leaders to send back to Washington. Fire the rest by voting the bums out!
I agree 100%
Kucinich was the best in this:
“The $700 bailout bill is being driven by fear not fact. This is too much money, in too short of time, going to too few people, while too many questions remain unanswered. Why aren’t we having hearings…Why aren’t we considering any other alternatives other than giving $700 billion to Wall Street? Why aren’t we passing new laws to stop the speculation which triggered this? Why aren’t we putting up new regulatory structures to protect the investors? Why aren’t we directly helping homeowners with their debt burdens? Why aren’t we helping American families faced with bankruptcy? Isn’t time for fundamental change to our debt-based monetary system so we can free ourselves from the manipulation of the Federal Reserve and the banks? Is this the US Congress or the Board of Directors of Goldman Sachs?”
Ron Paul has a few good zingers too:
In conclusion, there are three good reasons why Congress should reject this legislation:
a. It is immoral – Dumping bad debt on the innocent taxpayers is an act of theft and is wrong.
b. It is unconstitutional – There is no constitutional authority to use government power to serve special interests.
c. It is bad economic policy – By refusing to address the monetary system while continuing to place the burdens of the bailout on the dollar, we can be certain that in time, we will be faced with another, more severe crisis when the market figures out that there is no magic government bailout or regulation that can make a fraudulent monetary system work.
September 29th, 2008 at 9:07 pmWait! There’s more, Sheehan speaking on Peloosy:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080926/laf527.html?.v=4
In issuing the call, Sheehan pointed out a clear conflict of interest on the part of her opponent, Nancy Pelosi (D-SF), and other members of the Democratic Party leadership pushing the corporate bailout forward. Pelosi is one of more than 50 members of Congress with investments in the companies embroiled in the current financial quagmire.
“My opponent has half a million dollars in stock invested in AIG alone, which is included in this so-called bailout,” said Sheehan. “We need elected officials who will stand up for our interests, not protect their own pockets or the pockets of the very same people who got us into this mess in the first place.”
September 29th, 2008 at 9:11 pmConflict of Interest? Nah. Never. Not in this country. What do you think this is? A country where the elected representatives abdicate their oversight duties to the very administration that needs to be investigated?
September 29th, 2008 at 10:04 pmTracy__5 Says:
Everyone here is to blame. Pressure from Democrats to loosen lending restrictions to people who had no business owning a home or getting loans,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Whose pressure? This is from George Bush himself:
“THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, all. Thanks, for coming. Well, thanks for the warm welcome. Thank you for being here today. I appreciate your attendance to this very important conference. You see, we want everybody in America to own their own home. That’s what we want. This is — an ownership society is a compassionate society.
More and more people own their homes in America today. Two-thirds of all Americans own their homes, yet we have a problem here in America because few than half of the Hispanics and half the African Americans own the home. That’s a homeownership gap. It’s a — it’s a gap that we’ve got to work together to close for the good of our country, for the sake of a more hopeful future. We’ve got to work to knock down the barriers that have created a homeownership gap.
I set an ambitious goal. It’s one that I believe we can achieve. It’s a clear goal, that by the end of this decade we’ll increase the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million families. (Applause.)
Some may think that’s a stretch. I don’t think it is. I think it is realistic. I know we’re going to have to work together to achieve it. But when we do our communities will be stronger and so will our economy. Achieving the goal is going to require some good policies out of Washington. And it’s going to require a strong commitment from those of you involved in the housing industry.
Just by showing up at the conference, you show your commitment. And together, together we will work over the next decade to enable millions of our fellow Americans to own a piece of their own property, and that’s their home.”
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021015-7.html
Of course Bush was lying from the beginning. Struggling to keep up with a mortgage is not the same as “owning a home”.
September 29th, 2008 at 10:54 pmt5 and the other trolls remind me of blaming a prosecutor because there isn’t enough proof to convice…..their solution….the prosecutor must be a criminal.
September 30th, 2008 at 12:29 amBottom line: This is bush’s economic policy of cutting taxes and deregulation failing before our eyes. They tried to push it back till after the election but they had already pushed the wagon over the cliff.
Then, bush sends his treasury secretary to congress to beg. You would think the republicans would be leading but instead they use it to hold the American people hostage once more to try to get more tax breaks etc…..in other words, the same shit that got us into this mess…..
they got balls, no sense, but they got balls.
September 30th, 2008 at 12:35 am