Palin: Being Gay Is A ‘Choice’
Palin: Being Gay Is A ‘Choice’
Yesterday in her interview with CBS’s Katie Couric, Gov. Sarah Palin (R-AK) spoke on homosexuality, saying that she won’t “judge people,” but it is still a lifestyle choice that she would not make:
I have, one of my absolute best friends for the last 30 years who happens to be gay. And I love her dearly. And she is not my “gay friend.” She is one of my best friends who happens to have made a choice that isn’t a choice that I have made. But I am not gonna judge people. And I love America where we are more tolerant than other countries are. And are more accepting of some of these choices that sometimes people want to believe reflects solely on an individual’s values or not. Homosexuality, I am not gonna judge people.
Watch it:
Homosexuality is not a choice, as all major mainstream medical and mental health professional organizations have concluded. According to the American Psychological Association, “[M]ost people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.” Also, despite saying that she won’t “judge” gay people, she backed a state constitutional ban to deny spousal benefits to the same-sex partners of public employees.
As Couric pointed out, Palin’s church, the Wasilla Bible Church, also takes the position that homosexuality is a choice. In fact, it has sponsored a conference by James Dobson’s Focus on the Family to help gays “overcome” their homosexuality through prayer and covert them into being straight. These programs are also opposed by every major medical association.
Couric: Your church sponsored a conference that claimed to be able to convert gays into heterosexuals through prayer. Do you think that gays can be converted, governor?
Palin: Well, you’re absolutely wrong, again, on the facts. My church, I don’t have a church, I’m not a member of any church. I get to visit a couple of churches in Alaska when I’m home, including one, Wasilla Bible Church, and that’s the one that you’re talking about.
Couric: Right. I think James Dobson’s group … had a convention or a meeting there. And your church –
Palin: No, I think they –
Couric: — supported it.
Palin: The Wasilla Bible Church had a flyer that was part of a bulletin or something –
Couric: But you know what? That doesn’t even matter. Let me just ask you the question.
Palin: Well, it matters, though, because, Katie, when the media gets it wrong, it frustrates Americans who are just trying to get the facts and be able to make up their mind on, about a person’s values. So it does matter –
Couric: — you’re correcting us.
Palin: But you are talking about, I think, a value here, what my position is on homosexuality and can you pray it away ’cause I think that was the title that was listed in that bulletin. And, you know, I don’t know what prayers are worthy of being prayed. And I don’t know what prayers are gonna be answered or not answered. But as for homosexuality, I am not going to judge Americans and the decisions that they make in their adult personal relationships.
I have, one of my absolute best friends for the last 30 years who happens to be gay. And I love her dearly. And she is not my “gay friend.” She is one of my best friends who happens to have made a choice that isn’t a choice that I have made. But I am not gonna judge people. And I love America where we are more tolerant than other countries are. And are more accepting of some of these choices that sometimes people want to believe reflects solely on an individual’s values or not. Homosexuality, I am not gonna judge people.
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science means nothing in the face of religious fanaticism.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:38 pmOh, great. Now we’ll never get rid of Daryll, aka “RaptureReady”.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:41 pmSarah showed us what it’s like to lie to your face. All this talk about God yet she has no church. All this talk about gays without a clue to what she’s saying. Like McCain she thinks it will get her votes. Now her so called gay friend might start thinking twice about her. It’s so funny I remember in the old days people would say I have a black friend so that mean’s I’m not prejudice right.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:42 pmI wonder… does Sarah’s “friend who is not her “gay” friend” believe that her sexuality is a choice?
Does Sarah care?
October 1st, 2008 at 12:42 pmSo were dinosaurs able to choose their sexual orientation 6,000 years ago?
October 1st, 2008 at 12:42 pmMore crazy talk from the reich…P.B.& J
October 1st, 2008 at 12:43 pmSo I guess being straight is a choice also???
October 1st, 2008 at 12:43 pm*banging head on desk*
Oh, for the luvva Jebus. The batshit crazy is strong in this one.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:44 pmMy choice: not to vote for this dumb homophobic, racist phuck.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:45 pmWow! Palin has a gay friend! I bet she has a black friend, too.
She sure does throw that word “choice” around a lot…
PEACE
October 1st, 2008 at 12:45 pmThat’s OK, Ms UninformedPalin.
The American people are going to make a choice on November 4th.
Buh Bye!
October 1st, 2008 at 12:46 pmBut clearly these organizations and their findings (based upon actual investigation and research) are not as conclusive as Sarah Failin’s opinion and gut. Where have we heard this before?
We’ve all said it before, but it bears repeating:
Why on Earth would ANYONE in this world CHOOSE to be something that relegates them to second class citizen status?
October 1st, 2008 at 12:47 pmHey Dump Brain, see my previous comment.
Thanks for bringing Scientology into this. The Republican Party and the Religious Reich in this country bear so many striking resemblances to the oppressive, secretive, and criminal organization that is the Church of Scientology that it is frightening.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:48 pmre:#9
sorry I threw around the “ph” word.
This post infuriated me.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:50 pm(being a gay male)
Dump-Truck Says:
Everybody knows we are just a bunch of animals that have no control over our natural instincts. Scientology spells this out very clearly. Mans development is purely influenced and created by Aliens. We can change climate and go to the moon but not our sexual preference.
*
read that back you yourself.
#
slowly.
^
October 1st, 2008 at 12:51 pmKay,
No apologies needed. You euphemized it for us so our fragile little psyches wouldn’t have to see the bad word.
phuck phuck phuck tiddy phuckity phuck.
Oh noes! Not da bad wordz!!!
October 1st, 2008 at 12:51 pmthanks :)
October 1st, 2008 at 12:52 pmI feel better.
Palin? Inserted a fundie Christian outright lie of a talking point in her comment to Katie Couric? Like tossing a bone to a dog, her Christian base?
No one could have EVER predicted!
October 1st, 2008 at 12:52 pmRe Dump-Truck…
The stupid! The stupid!! It burrrrrrrrrnnnnnnssssss!!!!!! AAAAH!!!
October 1st, 2008 at 12:53 pmYou cannot even control your violent nature. That would seem to be a first step towards being civilized.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:53 pmAnd in Flailin’s case, being a stoo-pid, intellectually lazy, homophobic, End-of-Times believer are all choices too?
I do think gene pool pollution has had something to do with it. (Or maybe drinking too much Alaskan moose-p!ss tainted water.)
October 1st, 2008 at 12:55 pmDump-Truck Says:
Do you know what IS a choice DT? Being an ignorant, brainwashed hivemind moron. You have obviously made that choice. Sucks to be you. Ignorant, brainwashed, and without decency is no way to go through life you loaf. Try this, first turn of AM hateradio, then allow a BIT of reality into the cramped confines of Planet Wingnut, just a bit at first we dont want to cause shock to your system. Then a little more. One day you MAY even come to recognize reality. You might even one day recognize higher brain function. Clearly and sadly performing the function will ever be far beyond your sad capabilities but once you recognize it perhaps you can turn the corner and know the day when you can leave your mommys basement and ask people if they want fries with that. You moron loser.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:56 pm“One of my absolute best friends is gay” sounds like complete bullshit to me.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:56 pmI remember years ago when I was struggling with my sexuality. I was working at a movie theater. And there was this guy I worked with one Monday said to me something like, “I came out to my parents over the weekend” — I said “Jeff. Your straight” — He said –”I know. I told them I was straight and they said didn’t we raise you better than that!!”
October 1st, 2008 at 12:57 pmAnd DumpBrain official nukes the fridge!!! Gay people are like terrorists now?
Explain to me how “choosing to be gay” is an EASY thing to do? What with all the fear, bigotry, and discrimination that follows such a “decision.” Doesn’t seem like an easy thing to do to me. Seems like the EASY thing to do would be to just ‘choose’ to be straight so no one would discriminate against you by:
1) Firing you
2) EQUATING YOU WITH TERRORISTS (see: YOU)
3) Blaming you for the 9/11 attacks (see: Falwell, Robertson)
4) Refusing you next of kin and power of attorney rights as it pertains to your spouse (see: Hospitals)
5) Refusing you the right to fight and die for your country proudly (see: DADT)
6) Outright murdering you (see: Matthew Shepherd)
7) Claiming that every soldier that dies in Iraq or Afghanistan is God’s punishment for America tolerating your existence (see: Westboro Baptist Church)
8) Denying you even exist (see: Ahmadinejad, there you go right-wingers, that one was a gift)
9) Denying you the right to marry a consenting adult of your choosing (see: AMERICA)
I could go on.
Phuck you Dump Brain.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:57 pmWait a minute here.
If Palin feels there’s a choice between homosexuality and heterosexuality, then that means she, at one point, she at least contemplated an alternative lifestyle!
Oh dear, that paints a visual that should have our reich wing trolls too busy with their right hand to type!
blech!
October 1st, 2008 at 12:57 pmDump-Truck Says:
Same reason people choose to become terrorist. Its easy and they feel its the right thing to do!
October 1st, 2008 at 12:51 pm
______
Is that the same reason you chose to become a moronic conservatroll?
October 1st, 2008 at 12:58 pmKay Says:
re:#9
sorry I threw around the “ph” word.
This post infuriated me.
(being a gay male)
You’re a man?
October 1st, 2008 at 12:58 pmgalmud Says:
“One of my absolute best friends is gay” sounds like complete bullshit to me.
Yeah, it reminds me of people who say, “I’m not prejudiced, I have a black friend”, or some crap like that.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:59 pmDump-Truck Says:
liberal traitor Says:
Same reason people choose to become terrorist. Its easy and they feel its the right thing to do!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wow you really are trying for World Record stupid arent you. You are ignorant no question. Stupid as brass bubblegum but the trolls here have set the bar pretty high. Your ignorance is still middle of the road. I think I hear the shortbus honking for you. Remember to play nice with the other special children.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:59 pm#30 what the hell is that supposed to mean?
October 1st, 2008 at 12:59 pmLiberal Traitor, you forgot Katrina.
All brought on because of the upcoming Gay Pride Parade.
Wonder what Galveston was planning earlier this month? Musta been pretty bad…
PEACE
October 1st, 2008 at 1:01 pmLet me put it so the dizzy moosekill can understand.
Did your baby choose to have Down Syndrome?
October 1st, 2008 at 1:01 pmapparently it’s ok to choose how gay you want to be but not
October 1st, 2008 at 1:01 pmok to choose whether or not you want to have a baby after
you’re raped.
Being a self important uninformed a$$ is a choice. Please just stay in church if you must prattle this nonsense.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:02 pmWhen I was about 8 years old I went to see the movie One Million BC. One of the worst movies ever made. I think they only made it to run Raquel Welch around in basically nothing and show off her body. I was too young to be thinking about sex but I thought I had a fever. All I could think of was I got to get me one of THEM. Now that big hairy guy? Not so much. I know my sexuality was no choice for me. I dont see how others who would quickly say it wasnt a choice for them go right to saying it IS a choice for gay people. Its STUPID but then the rightwing MAJORS in stupidity. I think Dumpy lettered in stupid in high school.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:04 pmKay Says:
re:#9
sorry I threw around the “ph” word.
This post infuriated me.
(being a gay male)
You’re a man?
October 1st, 2008 at 1:04 pmHa, you’re a funny fool. Got a pointy hat and shoes with bells?
Seriously, bush just killed a million human beings without justification.
Abortion clinic bombings, gay murders, etc.
You are a fool on a fools errand.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:06 pmHey Dumpster,
Is that all you got? None of those actions has killed anyone, unlike what your NeoCon BushCo butt-buddies in the WH has done in Iraq. Over 4100 Americans killed, 0ver 20,000 wounded, 100’s of thousands of Iraqi’s dead and wounded.
You might want to be careful what you write, maybe review it for a reality check?
And I ask you again, why did you quit using the “Obama empty suit” picture? Must have been the debate, huh?
October 1st, 2008 at 1:06 pmDo you even understand what the word ‘coherent’ means?
“Obama Declares War”: He told his SUPPORTERS to get aggressive in their political discourse. He never encouraged violence. Nice try.
“Obama’s Code Pink Fundraiser Met With Ahmadinejad”:
-Rabbis Meet with Ahmadinejad http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=24516§ionid=351020101
Guess what dude? That’s what world leaders do. They MEET with each other. It’s called FOREIGN RELATIONS and DIPLOMACY.
I also fail to see anything related to VIOLENCE here…
“PETA urges Ben & Jerry’s to use human milk”:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:06 pm-Again, where is the violence?
-PETA is f’ing crazy and is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nice try
I’ve said it here before, and I’m now going to say it again.
Heterosexuality is not a choice, neither is homosexuality.
I never came across a Y in the road of my sexuality, and had to “choose” whether to veer right towards hetero, or turn left for homo.
I just was/is. The sight of a female body makes me all giddy, tingly, and to be honest, sometimes even stoopid!
October 1st, 2008 at 1:06 pmThe sight of male? Nope. Nada. Nothing.
Dump-Truck Says:
Same reason people choose to become terrorist. Its easy and they feel its the right thing to do!
Speaking from experience, troll?
Are you and Bin Laden sharing the guest room at the Bush ranch.
Fitting handle, by the way.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:08 pmMy parents named me after Kay Kyser (band leader of Swing)
October 1st, 2008 at 1:08 pm“I am not gonna judge people.”
Ya just did, honey. Katie Couric must be shaking her head that this is the quality of an American VP candidate in 2008.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:09 pmThe headline should read “Palin is Pro-Choice!!”
But, really, she should tell us the name of her Best friend who is gay, so that her other best friends don’t suffer from being suspected as being THE ONE.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:09 pmForgot the riots at the RNC, but it doesn’t matter. I’m almost positive you didn’t read anything about the reports of planted agents provocateur in the crowds that instigated the violence.
Not to mention the fact that anyone who does engage in violence like that is an ANARCHIST and they are not affiliated with us either, just like I’m sure you’ll say that even though they lean right the KKK and the Aryan Nation are not officially affiliated with the Republican Party.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:09 pmDump-Truck Says:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
WOW now you are blazing all new trails of stupid. You are a liar and a fool
Riots @ the 2008 RNC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yeah police riots. That is why they arrested so many journalists.
Obama Declares War: Orders Followers To Argue And Get In Their Face
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So now arguing is violence? I dont think that word means what you think it means. Adult education look into it. Better start at about a second grade level.
Obama’s Code Pink Fundraiser Met With Ahmadinejad
PETA urges Ben & Jerry’s to use human milk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And the violence is where in these two examples? You do know you are incredibly ignorant dont you? Meanwhile YOUR side has Ann Coulter who says we should beat liberals with baseball bats, poison a sitting supreme court justice. Drop daisy cutters at random in the middle east. The Wienerdog Savage who says we need to kill one hundred million Muslims apparantly in an attempt to demote Hitler to the minor leagues of evil. Yeah in your surreal world of abject stupidity it is our side that is violent. You have no brainpan. I see more higher brain function from the stuffed Toucan on my desk than you have ever shown in any post you have ever made. I appologize to morons everywhere for calling you a moron. You clearly need to gain a couple of dozen IQ points to join the marching morons society
October 1st, 2008 at 1:10 pmThe choices Palin has made in her life are not to be examined according to Palin and the old fella. Whatever happened to discussions of the POPULATION BOMB that we studied in the 1970’s.? Gone the way of Jimmy carter’s alternative energy plans and the solar panels he put on the White House. This country is just now trying to shake off the Raygun dementia. Palin and Grumpy old man McCain want the delusion to continue.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pmAnyone know if the GOP has filed for Chapter 11 yet? That dump-truck is going to come in handy in five weeks, after the voters sell off their remaining assets.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pmPer usual, Dumpster just took a quick dump here and slithered off. It has the same level of intellectual stamina as Flailin.
Explains the troll-love it gives her.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pmDump-Truck Says:
Last i checked your side is the most violent!
October 1st, 2008 at 1:00 pm
______
Remind me – whose side is it that shot up a Unitarian church and sprayed poison gas onto children at a mosque?
October 1st, 2008 at 1:13 pmYeah, that was pretty funny, the second-grader comment. She’s attempting make fun of Biden’s age…
Biden.
Biden who is 6 years YOUNGER than her running mate…
October 1st, 2008 at 1:15 pmQueuing Parodaryyl-RuptureReady in 3..2..1..
October 1st, 2008 at 1:15 pmOr did it already appear in a new Dumbtruck?
Dump-Truck Says:
Last i checked your side is the most violent!
Riots @ the 2008 RNC
Obama Declares War: Orders Followers To Argue And Get In Their Face
Obama’s Code Pink Fundraiser Met With Ahmadinejad
PETA urges Ben & Jerry’s to use human milk
Hey Dumphuck
1-e police rioted at the RNC, they arrested journalists for no reason, they peppersprayed non-violent protesters, they prememptively arrested leaders of groups for no reason other than they knew they could get away with it, you nazi.
2-too pointless and random to respond rationally, sooo,
McCain orders followers to eat puppies!!!!
3-CodePink is not affiliated with the Obama campaign. you doofus.
4-Again, WTF?
5-right wing terrorists gas nursey in a house of worship in Dayton Ohio.
6-White Supremists plan assisnation of Obama at 2008 DNC convetion
7-Right wing Nut Job shoots up church in Knoxvile because he hates liberals
8-Right wing terrorist Tim McVie blows up federal building in OKCity to avenge the self imolation of right wing crackpots in waco texas.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:17 pmJust keep breeding and praying to Jeeeesus and of course slinging empty slogans like, “Country First”, “Freedoms on the march”, “Freedom isn’t Free”, “love it or leave it”, “Drill baby drill, etc. Sick, frightened, weak, uninformed, delusional, that’s the GOP.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:17 pmyesterday he was ChuckySchmucky,
today he’s Dump-Truck,
tomorrow he’ll be Sarah’s G-Spot.
^
the name may change
but the message is boringly
familiar.
*
October 1st, 2008 at 1:18 pmContinuing for you, HT.
Remind me, which side was it that gave no-bid contracts to companies like Blackwater, which is headed by a staunch Republican, which is responsible for so many unnecessary (as if there is any other kind) civilian deaths in Iraq that not even the REPUBLICAN President and REPUBLICAN Congress could keep it a secret forever?
Remind me, which side of the American political spectrum has the folks who always say “Bomb them back to the stone age” and “Kill the towelheads” and “Turn the middle east into a parking lot” and “Kill ‘em all, let God sort ‘em out”?
October 1st, 2008 at 1:19 pmKatie Couric for VP!
October 1st, 2008 at 1:19 pmBuckie Boy Says
October 1st, 2008 at 12:43 pm
So I guess being straight is a choice also???
___________________________________________________________
Oh, it must be (in homophobialand). We need to ask Palin when she made the “choice” to be straight.
And for good measure, let’s also ask her how much prayer it would take to “pray her heterosexuality away”.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:20 pmjb Says
October 1st, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Katie Couric for VP!
___________________________________________________________
Well, she’s obviously more qualified than that piece of work she’s been interviewing…
October 1st, 2008 at 1:21 pmDumper must think Gandhi is a repuke.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:22 pmliberal traitor Says:
Forgot the riots at the RNC, but it doesn’t matter. I’m almost positive you didn’t read anything about the reports of planted agents provocateur in the crowds that instigated the violence.
As long as we’re a step above those godforsakenthirdworldcountries we must be the greatest country in the world. We used to be several notches above failed states before Bush took office. Funny how those who rail against tyranny and persecution by governments spy on their own citizens without warrants, ignore memos detailing imminent threats against their own citizens, and play on the fears of those citizens to destroy their goodwill around the world by preemptively attacking a country where no imminent threat exists.
Liberty is for conservatives. Stick the national guard on the rest of ‘em.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:22 pmsateriev,
There’s an interesting post over on DailyKos that deals with your last point. The gist is that palin’s lack of qualifications actually reinforce her belief that she should be president because she sees the hand of God guiding her to this point. scary stuff. (I looked for the diary, but it’s off the list.)
October 1st, 2008 at 1:23 pmDump-Truck Says:
Last i checked your side is the most violent!
October 1st, 2008 at 1:00 pm
uMM, LAST TIME I CHECKED, OUR SIDE WASN’T GASSING CHILDREN AT RELIGIOUS SERVICES…ASSHAT.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:26 pmplain watches too many “Girls Gone Wild” videos.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:28 pmDoes Dumper think the mass murderer, Jabba the Hut look-alike, Henry Kissenger, is on the democratic side? Kissinger and Palin in one room is one of the most repulsive things imaginable.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:30 pmFrom a previous thread, broken down piece by piece to illustrate the true Palin experience:
You know, there are man’s activities that can be contributed to the issues that we’re dealing with now, with these impacts.
THAT’S NOT EVEN TECHNICALLY A FU(KING SENTENCE! I’m sure she ment to use the word Attributed there, rather than CONtributed…but that still isn’t even a coherent thought.
I’m not going to solely blame all of man’s activities on changes in climate
Except that man’s activities ARE affected by changes in climate. In the southern hemisphere people don’t general wear thick coats for half the year because their climate is a great deal warmer, which is not the case in a lot of the northern hemisphere…
Oh wait, I’m sorry, I think she meant to say she doesn’t blame changes in the climate solely on man’s activities…is she dyslexic?
because the world’s weather patterns are cyclical and over our history we have seen changes there.
EXACTLY. Over the course of our history we’ve seen the changes in our climate patterns due to the activities of man!
DA STOOPID, IT HURTS MY BRAIN!
October 1st, 2008 at 1:30 pmSarah Palin nude painting
Sarah Palin painted in the nude at Old Town Ale House in Chicago
And here, the uncensored full image:
Uncensored Image
Only for people who can stomach strong images /Snark
No, seriously now, isn’t so hard, but really one must have some marbles loosing to display it…
October 1st, 2008 at 1:31 pmKay Says:
My parents named me after Kay Kyser (band leader of Swing)
Cool!
October 1st, 2008 at 1:33 pmEvil Spaniard Says:
It’s funny, that looks like a crayon drawing of Peggy Hill from King of the Hill.
Considering the attributes of the character Peggy Hill…it’s quite an accurate depiction of Sarah Palin actually.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:33 pmSarah-
Being gay is not a choice. Being ignorant is a choice.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:33 pm.
Since sexual orientation is a choice…
.. I’d like to see Sarah “choose” to not be heterosexual.
.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:35 pmjoe cantwell Says:
yesterday he was ChuckySchmucky,
today he’s Dump-Truck,
tomorrow he’ll be Sarah’s G-Spot.
^
the name may change
but the message is boringly
familiar.
*
HAHAHAHAHA
palin needs to get out of people’s bed, she is so trite.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:36 pmWell it would be easier for a gay person to ACT straight than it would be for Palin to ACT intelligent.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:40 pm“who happens to have made a choice that isn’t a choice that I have made.”
So Palin is a lesbian who chose to live a “strait” lifestyle and get married?
October 1st, 2008 at 1:45 pmDump-Truck Says:
Your choice is obvious!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes being ignorant IS a choice. It IS obvious you have chosen to be assilated into the Limborg. Your stupidity is as obvious as the Sun.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:45 pmDump-Truck Says:
Same reason people choose to become terrorist. Its easy and they feel its the right thing to do!
October 1st, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Apparently, stupidity is a choice as well.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:46 pmI don’t know Daryll, why are you and your “wife” infertile? God must be very angry at you.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:48 pmRaptureReady Says:
“Libs, explain why homosexuals can’t conceive?”
The world is overpopulated. There are 4 Billion more people on the planet than there are resources to care for. God may know this and has devised a form of natural population control.
Breeding is not the only purpose of existence. Loving one another may well be and gays are just as capable as straits, wether you can see that through your own hatred and bias, or not.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:48 pmOh no Dumpster, you cut us to the bone with that slashing wit of yours.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:49 pmRaptureReady Says:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Moron. Explain why you are so stupid. Your post, ignorant as always is a non sequitur. Is procreation the ONLY reason for sex? Then why is a woman fertile only a couple of days a month? Why are some people sterile? I would hope YOU were sterile so you dont corrupt our gene pool with your high level stupidity. Every time I see your nick I KNOW something monumentally stupid is about to follow. Do you have any idea how badly you embarass THINKING Christians like me? You are a pathetic shill. You are stupider than any other poster on this site and THAT is your singular accomplishment. You embarass our entire species. What a loaf you are.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:49 pmDaryll, you’ve tried to use this stupid [point before, and it’s been shot down every time.
Homosexuals CAN conceive. They conceive all the time.
As it happens, my wife and I cannot conceive. We have tried, believe me. But we were unable. Does this means God hates us? Does it mean we should never have been allowed to marry?
October 1st, 2008 at 1:51 pmIf Palin had chosen to be homosexual at least she wouldn’t have become a baby factory spewing out kids who are vandals, drug heads and unwed mothers.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:52 pmDump-Truck Says:
Your choice is obvious!
What a zinger, eh? This is when the troll decides to reinsert itself after being pummeled for the last 1 1/2 hrs.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:53 pmYep, and I chose to be Black.
Talk about “Unfit for Command” This modern day neanderthal has brought the nation to its highest comedic levels. The world is laughing hard at what John McCain has done to the political arena with this pick. It’s time to open the medical records.
RIP
October 1st, 2008 at 1:53 pmSGT Stephen. R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
RaptureReady Says:
——————————————————————————–
Libs, explain why homosexuals can’t conceive? If homosexuality was natural, wouldn’t God allow homosexuals to conceive without commiting adultery or using another individual’s eggs? God does want us to procreate.
–
October 1st, 2008 at 1:56 pmThe problem here is that you are assuming the existence of a god(s)
Dump-Truck Says:
BuckarooBanzai Says:
——————————————————————————–
Sarah-
Being gay is not a choice. Being ignorant is a choice.
Your choice is obvious!
Indeed! BuckarooBanzai is obviously intelligent.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:57 pmRaptureReady Says
October 1st, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Libs, explain why homosexuals can’t conceive? If homosexuality was natural, wouldn’t God allow homosexuals to conceive without commiting adultery or using another individual’s eggs? God does want us to procreate.
____________________________________________________________
Yes, but I don’t believe that God intended for sex within marriage to be restricted to procreation. If that’s the case, every married couple should be required to get divorced if they haven’t conceived within a year of marriage. Furthermore, married couples should be required to get divorced as soon as their children are grown and as soon as either partner becomes infertile.
Marriage — whether the participants are of the same sex or of opposite sexes — is about so much more than procreation. If you and your wife got married only to make babies, you’re missing out on so much more that a lifetime bond brings.
October 1st, 2008 at 1:58 pmmisshusseinmolly Says:
Yes, but I don’t believe that God intended for sex within marriage to be restricted to procreation. If that’s the case, every married couple should be required to get divorced if they haven’t conceived within a year of marriage. Furthermore, married couples should be required to get divorced as soon as their children are grown and as soon as either partner becomes infertile.
Marriage — whether the participants are of the same sex or of opposite sexes — is about so much more than procreation. If you and your wife got married only to make babies, you’re missing out on so much more that a lifetime bond brings.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
MissMolly that was an intelligent and insightful post. You are a joy to read.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:01 pmUm, basic biology?
Why did god make animals have gay sex then? Monkeys do it, chimps do it, and we’re pretty close biologically to them.
Perhaps god, as was stated above by the inimitable 666lattes, programmed homosexuality into the human race as a means of population control?
Again I ask you, why would anyone CHOOSE to be something that is attacked as much as homosexuality is?
Perhaps gay people were created not to conceive, but say if a child is orphaned? Look up the statistics on gays and adopting children (where they are allowed to that is), you may be surprised.
And speaking of procreation, how’s Bristol’s baby coming along? God sure meant for that to happen I’m sure.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:01 pmHey Ralph.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:03 pmI am so bummed that I have had to work all day. There is so much truely amusing stuff here this day
Here’s more proof–as if we need it–that Palin knows next to nothing about politics or the world. America’s more tolerant than other countries? Like the ones where gay marriage or gay unions are recognized? Canada, South Africa, Belgium, Holland, England, France, Germany (to name just some of them)? Palin is narrow-minded, uninformed and ignorant, the essence of what Mencken called the Booboisie.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:05 pmSorry Daryll, but homosexuals can and do conceive. I know several lesbians who have borne their children.
Return to your compulsive masturbation….
October 1st, 2008 at 2:05 pmYeah, dbadass — you missed Daryll, and he was in fine form, too. But you are just in time for Tracist_5. So chin up, my firend!
October 1st, 2008 at 2:06 pmTracy__5fingers Says:
“Yeah, it reminds me of people who say, “I’m not prejudiced, I have a black friend”, or some crap like that.”
It’s the truth dickhead. Why do you pop off your mouth about something you couldn’t possibly know about?
Because those that aren’t bigots don’t label their friends.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:09 pmThey’re not “gay” friends, or “black” friends, or “Jewish” friends, or “Hispanic” friends.
They’re just friends. Simple as that.
You’re the one who has to emphasize the adjectives, not us.
But, good to see in a gay thread your infatuation with a certain “tip” of the male anatomy.
Oh, the irony.
Tracy__5 Says:
#31
“Yeah, it reminds me of people who say, “I’m not prejudiced, I have a black friend”, or some crap like that.”
It’s the truth dickhead. Why do you pop off your mouth about something you couldn’t possibly know about?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Strawman alert. Who said it wasnt true? The point is does that give her any special insight into the issue that SHE Is popper her mouth off about when she cant POSSIBLY know about it? You are constantly popping YOUR mouth off about things you know nothing about you ignorant jerk. The stupid in your posts radiates like light from the Sun.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:09 pmProof? Did you not see Daryll’s psts above? (Okay, he now posts as “RaptureReady” but most people here recognize him for his fine work as The Performance Artist Known As Daryll”™).
There’s your proof right there, Tracist.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:13 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
“Marriage — whether the participants are of the same sex or of opposite sexes — is about so much more than procreation. If you and your wife got married only to make babies, you’re missing out on so much more that a lifetime bond brings.”
Exactly right. Getting married is NOT all about having children. Children is but a single great product of marriage but, should not be main reason for getting married. There is nothing in the Bible that says that married couple MUST have children RaptureReady.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Good points, good post
October 1st, 2008 at 2:14 pmTracy__5 Says:
It’s the truth dickhead. Why do you pop off your mouth about something you couldn’t possibly know about?
I am Native American and have dealt with ignorant F_ckwits like yourself, who want to call me a spic, wetback and crap like that, because they assume everyone with darker skin is a Mexican.
Why don’t you keep your trap shut when YOU obviously do not know what the f_ck you are talking about every time you post your drivel, dumbass.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:14 pmTracist__5
BS!
You’re the one who labeled your friend as black, not us!
You emphasized color, not us.
You’re the one who said “black” friend, not us.
Again, tolerance and acceptance. Something you know nothing about.
But wait, tell us again how a single mother going to college to better educate herself, is not a contributing member of society.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:17 pmBecause that was soooooooo not sexist!
Wait a minute… aren’t you the guy who demands “proof”?
Please indulge us with the proof of these statements and proper attribution.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:18 pmTracy__5 Says:
#112
“Who said it wasnt true?”
I am sure Wayne, llama boy, and DRxJ can fill you in on exactly what they said.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Then it isnt related to this thread specifically. Fine. The POINT is that having a black friend doesnt preclude racist preconceptions nor having a gay friend doesnt give any special insight that means you all of a sudden can say with any real certainty that being gay is a choice. THAT is the trick Sarah is trying to pull off here and it is a logical fallacy. Trying to make up for a weakness of argument with a spurious claim to authority.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:19 pmOnce again, I must ask that YOU “fill us in” on what we have said.
Fair’s fair, right? How can you demand proof and yet be unwilling to provide it? You have made the accusation, please provide the substantiation.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:21 pmTracy is whining again.
As proof, I cite this thread as Exhibit A.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:21 pmTracist__5 Says:
#112
“Who said it wasnt true?”
I am sure Wayne, llama boy, and DRxJ can fill you in on exactly what they said.
Boy?
October 1st, 2008 at 2:22 pmDid you just call a poster who you have differences with, boy?
Freudian slip there Tracist. Freudian slip!
It’s the truth dickhead. Why do you pop off your mouth about something you couldn’t possibly know about?
Tracist’s head is about to explode. His party is about to go down in big defeat, and they have nothing but American Carol and other cheap insults in lieu of admitting their failures.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:23 pmThe next question to Palin should have been, “Do you remember the moment when you chose to become heterosexual?”
October 1st, 2008 at 2:25 pmNice strawman, Tracist__5.
No one here has ever, EVER claimed your best friend is not black.
We’ve had issues with you labeling your best friend as black.
And I hope you don’t refer to him as BOY during debates or arguments.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:26 pmTracy__5 Says:
I am sure Wayne, llama boy, and DRxJ can fill you in on exactly what they said.
Funny you popped off you mouth about my comment and I wasn’t even taking about you, idiot.
You assumed, since you have used the “I have a black friend” thing that I was talking about you.
Not everything is about you, moron.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:29 pmRaptureReady said, ‘Libs, explain why homosexuals can’t conceive?’
This one can be shot down from so many angles I hardly feel I should waste time on it, but here goes.
This implies that marriage under any circumstance is soley for the purpose of pro-creation.
If a heterosexual couple can’t have children should they be allowed to marry?
How about elderly couples?
Should people have to prove they are ‘procreation capable’ in order to receive a marriage certificate?
Some people actually commit to relationships because they simply love each other.
AND finally, homosexuality exists throughout nature. GOD did in fact create this state of being throughout the world, RaptureReady just is too ignorant to see this because it would require picking up a book other than the bible.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:30 pmSo Racist_5 is Darryl’s friend who shows up when his black, spermless friend Daryll runs off like a whipped puppy after we point out that God must hate him and that’s why he can’t give his wife a baby?
October 1st, 2008 at 2:31 pmTracy,
I’m sure that no one truly doubts that you know black people, or that one of them is your ‘best friend,’ why would we? Just as no one doubts that Palin has a ‘best friend who happens to be gay.’
What is difficult to believe is that you truly think that your friendship with a ‘black’ person or ’someone who happens to be gay’ insulates you from criticism and entitles you to pontificate on matters racial and homosexual… I have a best friend who is a theoretical physicist, should I expect my paper on why string theory is a bunch of crap to be taken seriously?
That’s stupid, like claiming I know all about the softwood lumber crisis with Canada ’cause on a clear day I can see Canada from my house… and the funny thing is that I suspect that both you and Palin know it’s stupid and weak to argue that.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:31 pmOf course, we know how Republicans love to use these wedge issues like gay rights, abortion, gun laws, affirmative action to rile their clueless base to get them to the polls meanwhile the real issues like the economy, war, environment, constititional rights etc. get clouded over
jeesh.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:31 pm______
EugeneDebs Says:
——————————————————————————–
Tracy__5 Says:
#112
“Who said it wasnt true?”
I am sure Wayne, llama boy, and DRxJ can fill you in on exactly what they said.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Then it isnt related to this thread specifically. Fine. The POINT is that having a black friend doesnt preclude racist preconceptions nor having a gay friend doesnt give any special insight that means you all of a sudden can say with any real certainty that being gay is a choice. THAT is the trick Sarah is trying to pull off here and it is a logical fallacy. Trying to make up for a weakness of argument with a spurious claim to authority.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:19 pm
October 1st, 2008 at 2:32 pm______
She didn’t use the gay friend to claim insight to the origin of homosexuality. She cited the friend as proof that she doesn’t judge people even though they’ve made a choice that she feels is wrong.
Tracy__5 Says:
You know nothing about my friends and for you to keep bringing up the BS lie claiming that one of my best friends couldn’t possibly be black is a low class lie on your part.
And where in my post did you see I was referring to you? Exactly where?
I didn’t even see your lame posts before I posted, I was responding to another poster.
Do you feel as stupid as you are yet?
October 1st, 2008 at 2:32 pmChrisSEA Says:
If a heterosexual couple can’t have children should they be allowed to marry?
How about elderly couples?
Should people have to prove they are ‘procreation capable’ in order to receive a marriage certificate?
October 1st, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Hell, they shouldn’t even be thinking about the dirty, dirty sex.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:33 pm/sarc
Wayne.
You beat me to it.
I reread your post from earlier today, and it in no way accuses Tracist__5.
He’s like the cheating spouse, who always gets defensive when adultery is brought up.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:34 pmOr accuses the other of fooling around.
Why is that, Tracist?
Kay Says:
Of course, we know how Republicans love to use these wedge issues like gay rights, abortion, gun laws, affirmative action to rile their clueless base to get them to the polls meanwhile the real issues like the economy, war, environment, constititional rights etc. get clouded over
jeesh.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Republican politicians will NEVER let issues like gay rights and abortion be resolved either way — it’s the only way they can keep the sheeple voting against their own interests.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:36 pmI find it “amusing” watching Gov. Palin (and her supporters) using the word “choice.”
She chose to carry a disabled child to full-term.
Her daughter chose to conceive a child out of wedlock, and (apparently) to keep the baby once it’s born.
Her friend chose to be gay (and Sara must have chosen to be straight).
Amusing.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:38 pmupright left.
Again, how does she know it’s a “choice”.
That’s the whole semantics of the argument.
And she stated that it was the wrong choice. By whom?
Well, Palin’s standard of course.
Why did she even need to bring up her “friend”?
October 1st, 2008 at 2:39 pmCould not she have expressed her beliefs without bringing up her very close “gay” friend?
Yes, Sarah, but do you believe that when the rapture comes next [______ fill in the blank] ryou gay friend will be left behind?
October 1st, 2008 at 2:46 pmWhy won’t Palin ever give a Press Conference? It’s been 33 DAYS since her selection, 33 DAYS!
Why is Palin stonewalling the Troopergate investigation?
Why won’t Palin release her Tax Returns and Medical Records?
What is Sarah Palin covering up? WHAT IS SARAH PALIN HIDING?!
Where is her “Reform, Accountability and Transparency in Government” she keeps talking about?
October 1st, 2008 at 2:46 pmShayne, you know I love ya! But if I may be a tad bit critical…
October 1st, 2008 at 2:50 pmI know your attack on Parodyll was all in fun, but there are others here, included myself, that have suffered infertility problems with their spouses. And it is quite frustrating, especially when friends and relatives are conceiving left and right.
There’s really not alot of sympathy and understanding for childless couples who are trying.
Some take it in stride, some feel devastated.
Just my way of asking to choose your words carefully so that not to offend those that are suffering, is all.
______
DRxJ Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left.
Again, how does she know it’s a “choice”.
That’s the whole semantics of the argument.
And she stated that it was the wrong choice. By whom?
Well, Palin’s standard of course.
Why did she even need to bring up her “friend”?
Could not she have expressed her beliefs without bringing up her very close “gay” friend?
October 1st, 2008 at 2:39 pm
______
Obviously, it’s Palin’s opinion. Why bring up the friend? What would have been the reaction, just from those posting here, had she omitted that and simply said she doesn’t judge people. Posters would have said she was lying and/or that simply expressing her opinion of the choice is judging. Presumably, she mentioned the friend to head off those comments. She is saying she disagrees with the choice (in her opinion) that her friend made, but still treats her as she does those who don’t choose to live that lifestyle.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:51 pmDRxJ,
what uppy is saying is that
he made a choice to be gay.
and that sarah, while firmly
believing that he was wrong
to make that choice, is still
uppy’s friend. and that’s
fine with him.
^
got it?
#
October 1st, 2008 at 2:51 pmupright left:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:55 pmIf she was just expressing how respectful she is of others and their “choices” why did she express interest in the librarians potential book banning opinions. Is she less respectful of people’s “choices” of reading material?
DRxJ ~ Tracers is just projecting, as usual.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:59 pm______
joe cantwell Says:
——————————————————————————–
DRxJ,
what uppy is saying is that
he made a choice to be gay.
and that sarah, while firmly
believing that he was wrong
to make that choice, is still
uppy’s friend. and that’s
fine with him.
^
got it?
#
October 1st, 2008 at 2:51 pm
______
Joey! How are you this fine day, bud? Where are your “good lucks” and “have funs” on this thread? I sure hope your mood improves. ;)
October 1st, 2008 at 3:07 pmTracy__5 Says:
You guys made the claim that there is no way I am color blind when I choose my friends.
No, you made the assumption I was talking about you, like some idiot, when you or your friend was not even mentioned in my post that you got so heated up about.
Now do You have a guilty conscience or are you just nucking futz?
October 1st, 2008 at 3:10 pmNot even a good dodge. My point was that you’re quick to demand proof for statements you claim we made, yet you are yourself unwilling to demonstrate evidence that supports your own claims, such as the one quoted above.
So let’s recap, shall we?
1) you failed to provide the proof you demand of others, and
2) you made another unsubstantiated claim of a type that, had it been made by one of us, would be required by you to be proven.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:11 pm______
dbadass Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left:
If she was just expressing how respectful she is of others and their “choices” why did she express interest in the librarians potential book banning opinions. Is she less respectful of people’s “choices” of reading material?
October 1st, 2008 at 2:55 pm
October 1st, 2008 at 3:14 pm______
Excellent question. I didn’t comment on her level of respect for anyone or anything. I just pointed out that she didn’t claim any special insight into the choices of gay people.
I think I will just go with the opinion Tracy is nucking futz, since he does not even have the honesty to see he was wrong in his assumptions and apologize for his idiocy.
He is too little of a man to admit when he is wrong.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:14 pmIf being gay is a choice, then blue eyes is a choice.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:15 pmTracist__5,
Let’s do a brief summary of your posting today.
Wayne posts to no one in particular.
You call Wayne a dickhead.
You claim posters here state your best friend cannot be black.
We counter that you should call him your friend, not “black” friend.
You call ralph “boy”, which can be derogatory and racist.
And now you want proof of Zooey’s credentials?
Why? So you can cyber stalk her?
You.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:15 pmAre.
A.
Sick.
Individual.
In.
Need.
Of.
Serious.
Psychotic.
Help!
Once again, Tracist, you have things confused in your mind. I’ve made very clear that my calls for proof of your claims are anchored to your own standards. You were the one who first called for proof from us of anything. I am simply asking you to live up to the standards you would set for others.
As for Zooey, I have no reason to doubt her self-characterization. Not only is it not relevant to most discussions, but she has also proven herself to be an intelligent, insightful and caring commenter, even if she does get a bit bawdy (but which of us doesn’t, eh. Tracist?) So I trust her and what she says.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:15 pmOh Tracist, Tracist, Tracist.
It appears we’ve hit a nerve, eh?
Kind of like calling the adulterer a cheater, and he/she gets mad.
I, for one, am amused at your self righteousness clouded by anger.
But, since you have an infatuation with Zooey (our trolls usually do…..she’s HOT!), might you explain to us why you felt it necessary a few weeks back to divulge her information, and then state that she performs no benefit to society?
October 1st, 2008 at 3:22 pmI remember when my psychology professor said “being gay is a choice”, and I responded with “So, what age were you when you decided to be sexually attracted to the opposite sex?”
His “deer in headlights” look was priceless!
October 1st, 2008 at 3:23 pmNo one chooses to be gay.
People that are gay are genetically predisposed to be attracted to their own gender. Just as heterosexuals are predisposed to be attracted to the opposite gender.
I do understand the argument that even though some are born gay, they could choose to suppress their sexuality. But, I give it as much credence as I would someone telling me that I could suppress my own sexuality.
Sarah. Using the tact that homosexuals choose to be gay, as a justification to limit their liberty, is still an affront to liberty. And a misinformed affront to liberty, at that.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:23 pmTracy__5 Says:
#126
“No one here has ever, EVER claimed your best friend is not black. We’ve had issues with you labeling your best friend as black.”
The thread long ago dealt with people here claiming that there was no way I was color blind when choosing my friends. I said that one of my best friends was black and some here said that is “what all closet racists say”. May have been shoeless. I forget. Your “issues” with me saying “one of my best friends is black” has nothing to do with “labeling” and you know it.
So because some other poster, Loooong ago, made this claim, you attack my post which did not even refer to you or your friend?
And you still excuse your behavior rather than apologize when you are obviously wrong?
Yep, you are nucking futz, and too little of a man to admit when you are wrong.
I bet you think everything that happens to you in your life is always someone else’s fault too.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:27 pmGood point, DRxJ — I neglected to mention that, aside from being intelligent, insightful and caring, Zooey is also flamin’ HOTTTTT!
October 1st, 2008 at 3:28 pm#159 – backup Says:
——————————————
No one chooses to be gay.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:23 pm
What’s even more interesting is that when some people “chose” religion, that’s protected by the Constitution, but when the right-whiners claim that sexual orientation is a “choice” that’s something that should have no protection at all. I guess some “choices” are more important than others.
Another argument I used in response to a “pray the gay away” claim was “So, if you pray for God to make you gay, would it make your heterosexuality disappear?” That one always gets the right-whiners in a twitter! ;-)
October 1st, 2008 at 3:29 pmThere was a running joke on Sanford and Son. When was introduced to a white person, like Swanhouser, the cop (he called him Swaney), he’d always claim some of his best friends were white.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:30 pmJust like Tracey 1-99.
The main difference being, Fred knew he was fulll of shit
take care tony and lido
Tracy~
The issue here is that when something that should go with out saying is said, for example “I don’t pick my friends based on the size of their breasts- I like all breast sizes equally- I’m breast-blind… always have been.”
People naturally start to wonder why you felt the need to say that thing that should go without saying, for example “Belac really has a hang up about breasts, huh? Wonder what that’s about?”
Ya see, it doesn’t make me a breastist- but the very fact that it was mentioned is odd and questionable… ‘me thinks the lady doth protest too much’ and whatever…
October 1st, 2008 at 3:31 pmwhen Fred……
October 1st, 2008 at 3:34 pmDemocrat Soldier Says:
——————————————————————————–
#159 – backup Says:
——————————————
No one chooses to be gay.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Another argument I used in response to a “pray the gay away” claim was “So, if you pray for God to make you gay, would it make your heterosexuality disappear?” That one always gets the right-whiners in a twitter! ;-)
October 1st, 2008 at 3:29 pm
______
There’s no reason that question should be a problem for a Christian. The simple response should be, “no, God wouldn’t remove something that is His will.”
October 1st, 2008 at 3:34 pmProof, please? Can you cite a single instance when I expressed such a doubt?
I’m only asking you to live up to the standards to which you would hold others, Tracist. For some reason you stubbornly refuse to do so.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:34 pmPalin is to science as
October 1st, 2008 at 3:34 pmHitler is to sainthood.
#168 – upright left Says:
———————————————————
There’s no reason that question should be a problem for a Christian. The simple response should be, “no, God wouldn’t remove something that is His will.”
October 1st, 2008 at 3:34 pm
I agree, but you’re talking about TRUE Christians. I’m talking about those who falsely cloak themselves in piety and mouth the words for how they feel others percieve them.
I’m quite comfortable with my Christianity, and my relationship with God. What others may claim about my faith is meaningless to me, and I don’t let it interfere with my spirituality. I’m also comfortable with my partner of almost 9 years who’s agnostic/pagan! ;-)
October 1st, 2008 at 3:39 pmDemocrat Soldier. Or how about this: If God created you. And you’re gay. And you deny your homosexuality. Are you denying God’s design?
October 1st, 2008 at 3:39 pm#172 – backup Says:
———————————————————-
Democrat Soldier. Or how about this: If God created you. And you’re gay. And you deny your homosexuality. Are you denying God’s design?
October 1st, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Ohhh, good point! I’ll have to use that the next time I’m confronted by the “God” argument!
Thanks for that suggestion!
October 1st, 2008 at 3:45 pmhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/22/AR2006112201079.html
There is no science in this article, only the opinions of professional organizations including AAP, APA, and AMA. These are expert opinions but none refer to any scientific study that claims to have found a cause for homosexuality, and expert opinions of professional organizations are based on more that science.
This means, in short, that most are not promoting the type of practice done by Greg House – maverick last-ditch effort medicine. They promote standard and commonly accepted practices. The type that would by pleasing to Cuddy, administrator of House’s hospital. This minimizes liability. Interestingly, one of the reason a professional organization will have an expert opinion is to minimize professional liability of its members.
When a court refers to accepted practices the court will turn to a professional organization to find out what that practice is. So there’s much more involved that scientific research.
Further, these organizations are not free of internal politics.
Professional organizations have members with agendas. The APA famously didn’t discover that homosexuality was “normal” until around 1971 or 1973. Who would be surprise that the organization had some members with an agenda – members who suffered with the heretofore un-normal malady of homosexuality? So APA changed the definition.
Since that time much of the scientific research into the cause of homosexuality has been done by those with something to prove. Unfortunately, they have yet to prove what they’re looking for.
The APA brochure on homosexuality, partly quoted above by TP, makes it clear that at the present time the cause remains unknown.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:52 pm
bit believes this quote honestly reflects APA state of understanding, especially the last sentence.
Be that as it may, there are those who are claiming to offer reparative therapy.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:52 pmTracy__5 Says:
.
.
.
Exactly right. Getting married is NOT all about having children. Children is but a single great product of marriage but, should not be main reason for getting married. There is nothing in the Bible that says that married couple MUST have children RaptureReady.
October 1st, 2008 at 2:08 pm
While bit doesn’t necessarily disagree with your remark, he’s hesitant to, “second the motion,” so to speak.
Here’s a scripture that is really about having children, bit thinks.
The prophet is speaking for God.
http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Malachi+2
October 1st, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Tracist, Tracist, Tracist.
Now your falsely claiming I don’t believe you know blacks, or that your best friend is black.
Au contraire, mon fraire!
In fact, I’ve even acknowledged the fact, by stating you should not label such friends.
Nice try, tho.
I’m curious, why the sudden outrage to Wayne?
October 1st, 2008 at 3:56 pmHis post had nothing, NOTHING, to do with you. Can you at least admit you jumped the gun on that one?
| Report Abuse
——————————————————————————–
Democrat Soldier Says:
——————————————————————————–
#168 – upright left Says:
———————————————————
There’s no reason that question should be a problem for a Christian. The simple response should be, “no, God wouldn’t remove something that is His will.”
October 1st, 2008 at 3:34 pm
I agree, but you’re talking about TRUE Christians. I’m talking about those who falsely cloak themselves in piety and mouth the words for how they feel others percieve them.
I’m quite comfortable with my Christianity, and my relationship with God. What others may claim about my faith is meaningless to me, and I don’t let it interfere with my spirituality. I’m also comfortable with my partner of almost 9 years who’s agnostic/pagan! ;-)
October 1st, 2008 at 3:39 pm
______
I’m glad you are secure in your faith. OT, but is it your 9 yr relationship that you are comfortable with or the agnosticism or both.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:57 pmHow coincidental is it that the only times bitblt shows up to post seem to be threads in which Daryll has recently left?
ralph finds that curious.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:58 pmWhat a day Ralph!
October 1st, 2008 at 4:00 pmNothing like all things gay to bring out the favs…
and when all is lost, and Rapture Ready Parodyll disappears, in comes bitblt to further the false prophecies agenda.
DRxJ grows tired.
Maybe DRxJ should get back to work.
And then, afterwards, DRxJ should take his children to a church function tonight.
Which means DRxJ and Mrs. DRxJ will be alone in the house!
Whoo hoo! It could mean some non procreation time in the DRxJ household.
DRxJ will return tomorrow, hopefully with a gleam in his eye, and an all day silly smile.
True dat!
October 1st, 2008 at 4:00 pmTracy__5 Says:
#133
“I didn’t even see your lame posts before I posted, I was responding to another poster.”
Who?
Obviously you also have a reading comprehension disorder, why don’t you try rereading the post you responded to again, very slowly.
Its showing as # 29 at this time.
I won’t hold my breath for your apology.
October 1st, 2008 at 4:05 pmOT, but here’s something to offer the trolls when they claim that the Left is so much “more vicious” than the Right…
Kathleen Parker writes:
After 20 years of column writing, I’m familiar with angry mail. But the past few days have produced responses of a different order. Not just angry, but vicious and threatening.
What did she do to inspire this outpouring of hate? Insult the “Messiah”? No. What she did was suggest that Sarah Palin is out of her league and should consider stepping down.
October 1st, 2008 at 4:06 pmWayne @ 115
My good buddy is Iranian. It is a riot when he quietly waits out all the stupid shit he has to put up with from idiots who think he is Mexican. The look on their simpleminded faces when he politely says “Oh, by the way, I’m Iranian” is hilarious.
October 1st, 2008 at 4:12 pmAmerica, please, this woman is so close to getting in to the White House!
We in the rest of the world are totally and utterly terrified by this. Thank god (your god maybe) that British politicians would ruin their careers if they said anything this stupid. OK, so all they talk about these days are issues like the height of garden hedges and campaigns to give free tea bags to retirees, but at least my rights are safer than they would be under McCain/Palin.
America, we love you. You can give us your tired, your poor, your hungry… Exile in the UK isn’t that bad. Sodomy’s just fine here… we get at least 20 vacation days a year… and we just love our abortions… (don’t all us liberals?)… There’s something to be said for life in a godless, post-Christian society.
[One of the reasons I live here with my American partner is because our relationship isn't recognized in the US. And yes, I know we can get 'married' in some states, but immigration is covered by federal law, not state. We're in de-facto political exile. Mook.]
Hold on a minute, got a little distracted there. OMFG - this Palin woman could be months away from being one of the most powerful people in the world!!! Do something people, do something!
October 1st, 2008 at 4:13 pmStill, in this day and age? Jesus Christ.
October 1st, 2008 at 4:14 pmbitblt:
October 1st, 2008 at 4:15 pmFar more evidence exists to think a biochemical origin of most gender preference than does to support the belief in the real existence of any god/s. Is it inconclusive? At this time but the impact of hormones at key window of development does seem to have the capacity to feminize or masculinize the brain…
dbadass Says:
bitblt:
Far more evidence exists to think a biochemical origin of most gender preference than does to support the belief in the real existence of any god/s. Is it inconclusive? At this time but the impact of hormones at key window of development does seem to have the capacity to feminize or masculinize the brain…
October 1st, 2008 at 4:15 pm
That’s what you usually say, but with a nice variation on the wording.
Ready to declare it causal?
As to the “…real existence of and god/s,” you probably know that bit thinks that the material, physical word ( Something like “The cosmos is all there is and all there ever was.” from Carl Sagan) is the extension of the spiritual word. That is, the spiritual word is “more real” than the physical word. Believe the Apostle Paul supports that view. More and more it looks as if the physical world cannot reach outside into the spiritual world.
October 1st, 2008 at 4:26 pmRalph is unsure what bit is trying to say. Is bit trying to make an argument of belief appear to be an argument of evidence?
And is bit using the Apostle Paul as an authority on this question?
ralph hopes not, because that would seem to be a silly thing to do.
October 1st, 2008 at 4:33 pmTracy__5 Says:
Maybe you could provide llama boy some proof of you single with children and continuing your education status. He demands proof of these kinds of personal things.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Since I have credibility, it’s not necessary.
October 1st, 2008 at 4:33 pmHeh. Yeah, gay is a choice all right.
BULLSHIT.
If it is truly a choice as all these godsmacked idiots claim, tell me – why on EARTH would Mary Cheney have chosen to be gay…??
October 1st, 2008 at 4:42 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
.
.
.
Ralph is unsure what bit is trying to say. Is bit trying to make an argument of belief appear to be an argument of evidence?
And is bit using the Apostle Paul as an authority on this question?
ralph hopes not, because that would seem to be a silly thing to do.
October 1st, 2008 at 4:33 pm
bit was trying to jazz up an old idea: science can neither prove nor disprove God.
dbadass said that there was more evidence for a hormonal cause of homosexuality than there was evidence for the existence of God.
Sagan said that there’s nothing but what we observe.
And, bit says “Whatever!” we’re here.
The Apostle Paul, in Ephesians, says there is a bigger existence that what we experience.
What bit said is not about science, it’s about faith.
bit believes one can reason himself up to faith, but not into faith.
This seems to be the nature of the Creator. As the Bible says, “His ways are higher that our ways.”
October 1st, 2008 at 4:43 pmbit’s point was somewhat convoluted, but seems sound on further elucidation.
ralph agrees that, as the Bible says, “His ways are higher than our ways,” yet ralph is puzzled by so many Christians who assume that His ways align so neatly with their own beliefs.
October 1st, 2008 at 4:49 pmbit believes one can reason himself up to faith, but not into faith.
Faith is a lack of reason. It’s believing without proof. No one can reason himself up to or into faith. Reason suggests that faith is false hope.
I don’t have faith that bit will reason this out for himself but I do have hope that bit will reason it out.
October 1st, 2008 at 4:49 pmObviously, since the assumption was wrong, it wasn’t as safe as you thought.
October 1st, 2008 at 4:50 pmTracy__5 Says:
“You assumed, since you have used the “I have a black friend” thing that I was talking about you.”
Well it was a safe assumption considering you have called me a racist before.
You are an idiot. You were not on this thread when Wayne made his post. You are projecting it onto yourself. Do you really think Wayne, or anyone here, makes posts about you when you are not known to be here? You continue to show various definitions of idiotic behavior.
I can’t recall off the top of my head if you have made racists comments, but your extreme sensitivity on Wayne’s comment makes me think that you could very well have race issues.
October 1st, 2008 at 4:54 pmDear Miss Leftside Annie( advice columnist extraordinaire ):
So there’s this photo in the paper of a Pride Parade, and this guy is wearing a scooped necked, sleeveless form fitting dress. It’s orange. It’s accentuated with gloves over the elbows and a large brimmed hat. Gloves and hat are white and in the state where the photo was made a very common combination of colors.
So, what’s that all about?
Would you say there’s something natural or genetic in a man wanting to wear this outfit in a parade.
Help an ol’ boy understand this paradin’ about Miss Annie.
Best,
Vigor
P.S. – Thought the combo worked Ok except for the really black beard he had.
October 1st, 2008 at 4:58 pm..bitbit sayeth:
This seems to be the nature of the Creator. As the Bible says, “His ways are higher that our ways.”
You would think so, since HE is the Creator of the entire fu(king universe and all. Yet HE punishes homosexuals when he gave them the genes and hormones that made them homosexual.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:02 pmI know you’re not very bright, Tracist, so I’ll explain this patiently: the claims I was talking about (most with a solid grounding in reading comprehension would have picked this up) were those that you hurled in my direction and the directions of DrxJ and even shoeless, who wasn’t participating in the discussion.
For instance, you claimed that I doubt your claims of knowing black people. This is the kind of claim for which, if the positions were reversed, you would demand proof. And so i ask you to live up to your own standards and provide said proof of me expressing such doubt.
Understand now?
Again, Tracist, the demand I place on you is in response to your repeated calls for proof of my claims, even claims I never made. Surely you can understand that if you demand proof of others’ claims, you should be willing to meet that same level of responsibility for your own words?
October 1st, 2008 at 5:03 pmBeing gay is not a choice. Having a tramp for a daughter who gets knocked up and has children out of wedlock IS a choice.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:06 pmTracy__5 Says:
“You assumed, since you have used the “I have a black friend” thing that I was talking about you.”
Well it was a safe assumption considering you have called me a racist before.
Yep, you are a little man AND nucking futz.
Be sure you make your appointment to see your shrink, he really needs to adjust your meds, little man.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:08 pmSo, what’s that all about?
It’s all about living in a free society where you don’t have to hide from who you are and can show who you are in any reasonable fashion (see below) and can even pretend to be something else if you choose. During the parades in New Orleans do you think all the guys dressed up in fancy outfits are all gay? Do you also question the Africans that put huge rings in there bottom lip?
Note on reasonable fashion: It would not be reasonable to go to the parade with all your guns hanging around your neck. But frills and hats would be reasonable.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:10 pmTracy__5 Says:
Which people are you referring to?
People like my ex’s father.
I just do not waste my time thinking about you when I post, especially when I post before even seeing any of your posts.
You were not even on my radar, idiot.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:10 pmif you saw yourself in my post then it is YOU that has a problem, little man.
Time for bed, Tracy… you’re ‘being a b*tch’ and a nap would do you good.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:11 pmCome back when you’ve had some rest.
dbadass believes that bitblt can believe whatever the hell bitblt wishes yet it makes little sense to have selected one religion/cult/sect over any other. Why did bitblt not reason himself up any of a great number of faiths?
October 1st, 2008 at 5:13 pmI’ll vouch for Zooey not that she needs it and I will attest to her being an extreme hottie as well…
October 1st, 2008 at 5:15 pm“Yeah, it reminds me of people who say, “I’m not prejudiced, I have a black friend”, or some crap like that.”
Which people are you referring to?
Oh let me answer this one for our trouble one:
The people he is referring too (of course, I am assuming here because Wayne and I are on a read only relationship but I believe my assumption to be correct) are …. get ready for it Tracy…… RACISTS.
Tracy, you may or may not be a racist, but you definitely have comprehension problems.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:15 pm#178 – upright left Says:
———————————————————-
I’m glad you are secure in your faith. OT, but is it your 9 yr relationship that you are comfortable with or the agnosticism or both.
October 1st, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Comfortable with both. ;-)
October 1st, 2008 at 5:16 pmWhat a total dipshit our troll is.
Thousands of homosexuals have kids.
Where do homosexuals come from? Straight parents, you fool.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:31 pmdbadass Says:
dbadass believes that bitblt can believe whatever the hell bitblt wishes yet it makes little sense to have selected one religion/cult/sect over any other. Why did bitblt not reason himself up any of a great number of faiths?
October 1st, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Huh?
Short answer: “There is no other name under Heaven by which one can be saved!” Referring to Christ.
Don’t assume that every religion/cult/sect offers or understands salvation the way it’s offered and understood in Christianity.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:32 pmTracy,
We know your thin-skin isn’t your fault- you were born that way.
And I understand your problems dealing with it… Heck, some of my best friends are thin-skinned.
But I am confident that with determination and prayer you can overcome the natural offense you take at the slightest suggestion of insult… you may not be able to change your thin-skin but you can choose to turn the other cheek and follow the Lord’s path, Halley Lou Ya!
October 1st, 2008 at 5:34 pmupright left Says:
______
She didn’t use the gay friend to claim insight to the origin of homosexuality. She cited the friend as proof that she doesn’t judge people even though they’ve made a choice that she feels is wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Actually I dont think you are correct this is the first part of her statement
I have, one of my absolute best friends for the last 30 years who happens to be gay. And I love her dearly. And she is not my “gay friend.” She is one of my best friends who happens to have made a choice that isn’t a choice that I have made.
So she goes seamlessly from she is one of my best friends to she made a CHOICE. To me that clearly is trying to use the fact her friend is gay as a sort of authority or insight into making what EVERYONE KNOWS is a controversial judgement. That being gay is a choice. She only LATER talks about her not judging. So I dont see it the way you do and I think I am right that she is trying to make up for a weakness of argument with a spurious claim of authority. In context it looks pretty straight forward to me.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:39 pmupright left Says:
Obviously, it’s Palin’s opinion. Why bring up the friend? What would have been the reaction, just from those posting here, had she omitted that and simply said she doesn’t judge people. Posters would have said she was lying and/or that simply expressing her opinion of the choice is judging. Presumably, she mentioned the friend to head off those comments. She is saying she disagrees with the choice (in her opinion) that her friend made, but still treats her as she does those who don’t choose to live that lifestyle.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
OR it is Palins opinion based on NOTHING except her prejudices. She brought up her friend to head off THAT argument. I dont see it. She talks about the choice FIRST and the non judgement as an afterthought when CLEARLY she is judging. Her OPINION about homosexuality being a choice could be based on nothing else. What do YOU think the chances are her friend told her it was her choice or THINKS it was a choice since no gay person I have ever known has seen their sexuality as a choice.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:44 pm______
Democrat Soldier Says:
——————————————————————————–
#172 – backup Says:
———————————————————-
Democrat Soldier. Or how about this: If God created you. And you’re gay. And you deny your homosexuality. Are you denying God’s design?
October 1st, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Ohhh, good point! I’ll have to use that the next time I’m confronted by the “God” argument!
Thanks for that suggestion!
October 1st, 2008 at 3:45 pm
______
Christians who believe that homosexuality is wrong generally don’t believe that God created anyone to be homosexual, but that it is the result of sin in the world as is everything bad in the world.
______
Democrat Soldier Says:
Comfortable with both. ;-)
October 1st, 2008 at 5:16 pm
______
Any concern about “…no one comes to the Father, but through Me.”? Not judging, just asking.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:50 pmbitblt Says:
Your entire argument is specious at best. First there is no known cause of left handedness either. No lefthanded gene is known but NOBODY in the medical community believes it to be a CHOICE. Second. Since it is you WINGNUTS that want to deny rights to gay people it is up to YOU to PROVE your assertion that it is a choice and not a predisposition. IF you want to say gay people cannot marry for instance it is YOUR burden of proof to say why it would be detrimental. Since the only basis for this counterintuitive argument that being gay is a choice is to get around the FACT that no argument the right has yet presented for not allowing gays to marry differs in ANY way from the rightwing arguments about miscegentation laws they want to distance their arguments from that comparison. To say why it isnt a 14th amendment issue. So they HAVE to say its gay. Since they want to make that argument it is THEIR burden of proof to PROVE it true NOT to toss it out there and say prove it ISNT true.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:53 pmvigor Says:
What I think is you are a bigot and a moron and no one in their right mind cares what you think.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:59 pmEugeneDebs Says:
Actually I dont think you are correct this is the first part of her statement
I have, one of my absolute best friends for the last 30 years who happens to be gay. And I love her dearly. And she is not my “gay friend.” She is one of my best friends who happens to have made a choice that isn’t a choice that I have made.
So she goes seamlessly from she is one of my best friends to she made a CHOICE. To me that clearly is trying to use the fact her friend is gay as a sort of authority or insight into making what EVERYONE KNOWS is a controversial judgement. That being gay is a choice. She only LATER talks about her not judging. So I dont see it the way you do and I think I am right that she is trying to make up for a weakness of argument with a spurious claim of authority. In context it looks pretty straight forward to me.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:39 pm
OR it is Palins opinion based on NOTHING except her prejudices. She brought up her friend to head off THAT argument. I dont see it. She talks about the choice FIRST and the non judgement as an afterthought when CLEARLY she is judging. Her OPINION about homosexuality being a choice could be based on nothing else. What do YOU think the chances are her friend told her it was her choice or THINKS it was a choice since no gay person I have ever known has seen their sexuality as a choice.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:44 pm
______
I highly doubt that her friend ever told her she chose to be gay. My comment was that she isn’t using her gay friend to say that she has any special insight into whether it’s a choice or not. Her belief that homosexuality is wrong is based upon the Bible. Presumably, like most conservative Christians, she believes that God doesn’t make people gay; that it results from sin in the world. Presumable, when she refers to choice, she refers to the choice to act on homosexual inclinations. Her comment about her friend and judgment was intended to show that, while she thinks the choice to live that way is wrong, she doesn’t harbor ill feelings toward the people who do so. She was attempting to head off that argument. Similarly, I’ll point out that I’m voting for Obama to head of any who might misconstrue my comment to be support for McCain/Palin.
October 1st, 2008 at 6:12 pmSorry DRxJ I’ve been away from the computer for a while. I had a 10 year struggle with that issue myself which is why Daryll’s proposals drive me crazy. I don’t believe one of these trolls has a wife so I wasn’t thinking that way really. Sorry again.
October 1st, 2008 at 6:17 pmupright left Says:
I highly doubt that her friend ever told her she chose to be gay. My comment was that she isn’t using her gay friend to say that she has any special insight into whether it’s a choice or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes that is what you are CLAIMING but as I pointed out it doesnt make sense according to the context. IF her friend didnt tell her that she made a choice to be gay then the point of her bringing it up looks CLEARLY to give credence to a claim EVERYONE knows is controversial at best. The statement that being gay was a choice she made follows her talking about her friend directly.
Her belief that homosexuality is wrong is based upon the Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes I am sure this is true but IRRELEVANT. Since her belief about right and wrong isnt the issue here. ONLY her BELIEF that being gay is a choice. What in the world could THAT be based on?
October 1st, 2008 at 6:21 pmThis may be totally off base, but i know a number of fundamentalist Christians who assume that any woman or man who is ‘unattached’ for any length of time is ‘gay’ and their ‘gayness’ is commonly discussed as fact; and it is not outside the realm of possibilities that she is assuming someone to be gay who is not gay.
October 1st, 2008 at 6:28 pmbitblt says:
“There is no other name under Heaven by which one can be saved!” Referring to Christ.
October 1st, 2008 at 6:31 pm—
Says who?
EugeneDebs Says:
upright left Says:
I highly doubt that her friend ever told her she chose to be gay. My comment was that she isn’t using her gay friend to say that she has any special insight into whether it’s a choice or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes that is what you are CLAIMING but as I pointed out it doesnt make sense according to the context. IF her friend didnt tell her that she made a choice to be gay then the point of her bringing it up looks CLEARLY to give credence to a claim EVERYONE knows is controversial at best. The statement that being gay was a choice she made follows her talking about her friend directly.
Her belief that homosexuality is wrong is based upon the Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes I am sure this is true but IRRELEVANT. Since her belief about right and wrong isnt the issue here. ONLY her BELIEF that being gay is a choice. What in the world could THAT be based on?
October 1st, 2008 at 6:21 pm
______
Absent a statement from her, we will continue to see this differently. I took it to mean choosing to act on gay feelings rather than choosing to have gay feelings. If she is saying she believes choosing to act on the feelings is wrong and then mentions the friend, it makes sense that she is making the point that she doesn’t have ill will against people because they choose to live in a way that she believes is wrong. Your interpretation makes sense if she believes people choose to have the feelings.
October 1st, 2008 at 6:41 pmIf I say Tracy_5 is not a racist will this shit come to an end? In my experience Tracy_5 has tended to be more of a selfish class based capitalist.
October 1st, 2008 at 7:02 pmOh, Tracist, you really aren’t having a good day today, are you?
You claimed that I doubted tat you had “a black friend”. I asked you to provide proof of such a statement from me.
Now, I know this might be above your head, but reprinting posts of mine that reflected a judgment of your tendency toward prejudice in your comments (and even some that don’t reflect any such judgment) really does not provide the proof I was looking for.
You can try to draw an equivalence with a statement like “Considering you think I am racist, it doesn’t seem logicial that you would believe me when I say “One of my best friends is black” but let’s face it, Trace; you’re not really well suited to determine what seems “logical” and what doesn’t. And it unequivocally fails to prove your earlier claim.
But I admire the effort, Trace. I really do.
October 1st, 2008 at 7:22 pmIf you’re Christian and you feel that homosexuality is wrong, please explain this to me:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Jesus didn’t say anything about homosexuality.
Homosexuality predated Jesus and I believe that it was mentioned in the old testament. I believe many of the justifications for condemning homosexuality come from the old testament or from Church leaders hundreds of years after the death of Jesus.
Jesus rebelled against much of the status quo of the Jewish Church of his time. Ideas that might have included the condemnation of homosexuality. We don’t know.
Isn’t it Jesus Christ that is the basis of Christianity and not the old testament or church leaders that came hundreds of years after?
The obvious question is this: If homosexuality is as grave a sin as many of today’s christians might have us believe; why didn’t Jesus say one word about it?
Doesn’t his lack of address on the subject speak volumes as to it’s relative importance?
I’m asking because I don’t know. What are the church’s justifications that homosexuality is sin. Where does the idea come from?
October 1st, 2008 at 7:23 pmBitBit you clearly don’t know many gay people. As a gay person myself I can tell you it’s not something I chose. In fact after having been raised in a completely bizarre Christian (er, ‘good’ Christian) home, I ended up going through a so-called ‘Reparative Therapy program’ whereby they try and ‘de-gay’ you.
you know what, I’m still gay. 20 years later.
And please stop quoting your strange and odd bible to us. No amount of repeating it makes it true.
October 1st, 2008 at 7:33 pmBeing stupid and unable to answer questions to make sense is a choice, in which case Palin chose that way.
October 1st, 2008 at 7:36 pmChrisSEA:
October 1st, 2008 at 7:38 pmI missed it at first as many of us did and it is easy to do but it is bitblt not bitbit. I am glad you survived to continue to be the fine person I am sure you are. If you don’t mind I am sort of curious as to what these bullshit reparative therapy programs actually are like if you are comfortable sharing. Stay gay and proud my friend…
upright left Says: 235
Yes I get that you DECIDED to take it that way I am just saying the context of the statement doesnt SUPPORT you doing so. She talked about her friend being gay then went DIRECTLY to it being a choice. THAT is pretty clear.
October 1st, 2008 at 7:42 pmIf you claim to be Christian. If you claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ. And he said nothing on the topic of homosexuality. (Although he warned plenty about judging others). Does it really make sense to be putting the words in his mouth?
If Jesus didn’t say it, who is speaking for Jesus?
October 1st, 2008 at 7:45 pmFrom Sermon on the Mount:
I’m not Christian. But, what I’m not getting from his teachings, is a ‘we’ve got to crack down on gays’ vibe.
October 1st, 2008 at 7:57 pmbackup, good work, good posts.
I don’t think it would come as a surprise to you that such arguments seldom have much impact on True Believers.
After all, if they had to explain it logically, why would they bother believing with the fervor that they do?
For what it’s worth, I am a Christian, with a good deal of training, although no longer practicing. And I think you have a pretty good idea of what Jesus was all about.
October 1st, 2008 at 8:14 pmYou really are dumber than a bag of hammers, aren’t ya, Trace?
What do I have to go on to form my judgments about people here other than their comments?
No, Trace. It’s not logical. It may be common sensical to someone of your ilk, but “logical” means something very specific; it means it follows the rules of logic. You tried to claim that because I have judged your comments to be those of a racist, then “logically” I refused to believe your claim that you had a black friend.
This does not follow logically. To clarify; you didn’t claim that I would refuse to believe it. You claimed that I HAD refused to believe it. To logically make that claim, you would have to have heard (or read) words from me that stated such a thing. I challenged you to produce such a statement.
You could not. So in desperation, you dug up some older posts of mine in which I judged, based on your comments that you had a racist streak (which you undoubtedly try to hide, racism being so commonly accepted to be an abomination these days in most polite company).
I realize it’s probably frustrating for you to try to make yourself understood when you think a word like “logical” means something and I’m telling you it means something else. That’s gotta be tough for you. But stick with it. Eventually a little light will dawn for you.
October 1st, 2008 at 8:56 pmralph. It just seems that those that want to spread their faith, should at a minimum, know their faith.
The burden should be on them.
I’ve still got an open mind, but every serious conversation I have had with believers (usually monotheists), ends with them saying that their belief requires faith.
I’ll paraphrase what I think their position is: I believe something. I can’t prove it. It doesn’t logically make sense. But, I just believe it. And because I believe it, you should too. And there’s something about your not believing, that concerns me or threatens my belief.
Gotta go to bed. But, I will pray for you all. Good night.
October 1st, 2008 at 9:05 pmI am not any good at it so can someone summon DumpTruck or somebody to get stuff back on track around here? Thanks…
October 1st, 2008 at 9:10 pmI’m with ya there, backup. I am a believer, as I said. My beliefs these days tend toward more ecumenical, even exotic ideas, but I still retain the basic moral framework that you recognize as Christianity.
The problem as I see it (and I’m sure you see it too) is the step you mention, “because I believe it, you should too”.
That’s the step that’s troubling. That’s a step that requires arrogance and an utter lack of a sense of the mystery of the ineffable.
October 1st, 2008 at 9:11 pmOh Shit, now I have to get all serious and acknowledge #250
October 1st, 2008 at 9:16 pmNO worries, dbadass.
No need for seriousness. It’s just backup.
October 1st, 2008 at 9:31 pmRalph, Of all people I would have thought you would have caught the true honor and respect that is presented in the reverse. It is the most thoughtful idea I have seen today
October 1st, 2008 at 9:36 pmdbadass, thanks for the correction.
Well, I lost some good years of my life to the psychological distress caused by these sham programs.
Sham is really the best and only word to adequately describe them. I was a very young and brainwashed (by religion) kid and went into the program like a lamb to a slaughter, to use a phrase.
In a nutshell they use shame as a way of convincing you there is something fundamentally wrong with you. Your orientation is the result of ‘gone bad’ psychology as a result of bad parenting.
So you walk away from these ‘programs’ thoroughly believing you are fundamentally flawed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y-LocO_YpQ&feature=PlayList&p=3BE04DBA31709238&index=0
I’ve done some podcasts on my experience which you can hear on YouTube.
If anyone thinks these programs are in some way helpful, they can come talk to me. I’ll set them straight…
So to speak.
October 1st, 2008 at 10:06 pmWow. My comment at 253 is already outdated…
October 1st, 2008 at 10:10 pmChrisSEA:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:13 pmHow do people end up in there? No adult could legally be forced into this crazy shit, right? So what gives? What about kids? Can parents force it against the will of a minor child?
dbadass, you assume that an adult is something psychologically an adult. By the time I was 21 or so I was still very much like a 12 year old. I was brainwashed, seriously brainwashed. I went into this ‘program’ because I didn’t know any better… You’ll notice that these programs always prey (an unfortunate word) on people who have already been brainwashed by religion. I was raised by religious people who scared the crap out of us as children into believing if we didn’t do and behave and think exactly like they did then we were lost for all eternity.
It’s really very, very difficult to describe the hole I had to dig myself out of. When I say brainwashing I really do mean brainwashing. I was raised Mormon which, much to some people’s chagrin, is just another version of the larger cult of Christianity.
I was somewhat lucky in that I didn’t have to go through the electroshock ‘aversion’ therapy that some guys did.
October 1st, 2008 at 11:15 pm______
backup Says:
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ralph. It just seems that those that want to spread their faith, should at a minimum, know their faith.
The burden should be on them.
I’ve still got an open mind, but every serious conversation I have had with believers (usually monotheists), ends with them saying that their belief requires faith.
I’ll paraphrase what I think their position is: I believe something. I can’t prove it. It doesn’t logically make sense. But, I just believe it. And because I believe it, you should too. And there’s something about your not believing, that concerns me or threatens my belief.
Gotta go to bed. But, I will pray for you all. Good night.
October 1st, 2008 at 9:05 pm
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The Bible says “…make disciples of all the nations…” I’ve never known a Christian who wanted to force their religion on others. I’ve only known Christians who share their faith with those who are willing to hear out of a sense of duty (meaning they are uncomfortable approaching people) or because they feel a burden for the lost. I’ve certainly never known a Christian whose faith is in any way threatened by the unbelief of others. Perhaps you are misinterpreting their concern for your salvation.
Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.”
He changed the need for sacrifices for sin, but not all the previous laws. We cannot put words in Jesus’ mouth. Nor can we try to make it ok to do everything that He didn’t specifically prohibit.
This is hardly the forum for an in depth explanation of that subject. If you truly want to know, call some local churches and speak to a variety of pastors. That should answer some of your questions. If you are looking for concrete proof of God’s existence, you are wasting your time. God requires faith.
“It was because of these newfound understandings- that religious commitment did not require me to suspend critical thinking, disengage from the battle for economic and social justice, or otherwise retreat from the world that I knew and loved- that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ one day and be baptized.”
Barack Obama
October 1st, 2008 at 11:39 pmThe Audacity of Hope
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Hey Darryll,
Q U E S T I O N:
… Then why didn’t Jesus instruct us to HATE and CONDEMN our neighbor?
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October 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 am#220 – upright left Says:
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Any concern about “…no one comes to the Father, but through Me.”? Not judging, just asking.
October 1st, 2008 at 5:50 pm
UprightLeft, not troubled by your question, as others have asked the same of me previously.
I do question my partners beliefs, but they are his to reconcile with himself. I’ve talked with him about what he believes, and he’s told me his perspectives, and we’ve found areas in which we respectfully disagree with each other.
I practice what I preach, and I live how I would have others treat me. He’s told me that I’m the first Christian that hasn’t tried to tell him how wrong he is or that he’s going to Hell because of his faith.
To me, false faith is worse than no faith at all, and trying to get him to agree with me would be forcing him against his faith.
Trust me, it’s not all roses at the casa! ;-) If my example leads him to God, so much the better. I’m not going to shove his face in my faith, just as I wouldn’t want anyone else trying to tell me that my relationship with God is false because they don’t agree with my orientation.
It’s not always an easy road to follow, but noting in life ever is easy! Peace!
October 2nd, 2008 at 9:04 ambackup Says:
If you claim to be Christian. If you claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ. And he said nothing on the topic of homosexuality. (Although he warned plenty about judging others). Does it really make sense to be putting the words in his mouth?
If Jesus didn’t say it, who is speaking for Jesus?
October 1st, 2008 at 7:45 pm
bit doesn’t believe that one can categorically say that Jesus didn’t say anything on the topic of homosexuality. bit does believe that one can categorically say that Jesus didn’t directly address the topic of homosexuality in the New Testament. See you’re already a better Bible scholar.
At the end of the book of John, John makes it clear that not everything Jesus did was recorded. John says that if all the things Jesus had done were put in books they would fill the earth. I assume John was using hyperbole, but metaphorically everything Jesus did does fills the earth now. John says what was recorded in his book was to make believers.
Jesus did address the topic of appropriate sexual expression in Matthew 19. bit is paraphrasing here when he recalls that Jesus said that the Creator intended for a man and a woman to be one flesh in marriage. This “one flesh” is a relationship that only a man and a woman can achieve. These Genesis verses, which Jesus quoted in his remark, are the authority for marriage.
Isn’t a statement about the proper expression of human sexuality an implicit comment on other, improper expressions of human sexuality such as homosexuality?
October 2nd, 2008 at 9:50 ambackup Says:
If you claim to be Christian. If you claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ. And he said nothing on the topic of homosexuality. (Although he warned plenty about judging others). Does it really make sense to be putting the words in his mouth?
If Jesus didn’t say it, who is speaking for Jesus?
October 1st, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Jesus did use the word Sodom in a comparison. Sodom was a city destroyed by God because of the wickedness of its inhabitants. This is recorded in Genesis around the fourteenth chapter. The narrative in Genesis makes it clear that the inhabitants were homosexuals. This city, and its subsequent destruction, gives us the name Sodomy to describe a class of crimes.
Since Jesus uses the name in a comparison where the name Sodom is used as an example of a really bad example, believe it’s reasonable to say that Jesus indirectly addresses the issue of homosexuality.
That’s bit opinion.
Using your logic, Jesus didn’t say that the destruction of Sodom was a mistake.
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:00 ambitblt, you really just don’t seem to get it.
Homosexuality is not about sexuality. It’s about who you are attracted to emotionally as well as physically. You guys are just obsessed with procreation for some reason.
And it doesn’t matter one bit what the bible says or doesn’t say. Anyone who thinks the bible is the end all be all of a subject lacks serious intellectual capacity. Actually what is says is a person who hasn’t taken the time to critically look at the document (or rather mish-mash of cobbled together documents) called the Bible. It is contradictory, error ridden, mistranslated (actually there are no original docs for the new testament), altered over time and just plain made up at others.
I would recommend people read Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman Ph.D.
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:05 amBitBlt wrote, ‘The narrative in Genesis makes it clear that the inhabitants were homosexuals.’
No, actually it’s not clear. There’s significant disagreement among scholars around this point.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibg.htm
Anyone who wants to do some research should look at the above link which looks at both sides of this story.
But again, who cares what the Bible says? Like I said, it’s an archaic document that clearly shows the limited world view of humans 2 or 3 thousand years ago. It’s fully of petiness and sheer stupidity from stem to stern. No one these days would dare think about killing another human being for believing something other than what (or whatever you interpret) the Bibles says, but it does say to murder people who worship other gods.
Besides, the BIble has been used to justify all kinds of terrible things including slavery.
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:19 amChrisSEA Says:
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. No one these days would dare think about killing another human being for believing something other than what (or whatever you interpret) the Bibles says, but it does say to murder people who worship other gods.
Besides, the BIble has been used to justify all kinds of terrible things including slavery.
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:19 am
The New Testament, the source of Christianity, does not instruct Christians to kill people who are not Christian, and as far as bit can tell, only those people whose history is recorded in the Old Testament were instructed to kill other people. They were instructed to do this by God, according to the Bible.
Further, the Bible has been used to justify all kinds of wonderful things including the abolition of slavery and untold acts of kindness. Isn’t that interesting? Some of the worst and some of the best human actions have been justified with the Bible. Makes one want to question the intentions of those who use the Bible to justify their actions, doesn’t it?
Do you suppose there would still be slavery in the U.S. if Christian based societies hadn’t struggled to abolish slaver? Notably, the Apostle Paul in the NT says that slaves and masters are equal in Christ.
bit thinks the industrial revolution would have taken care of slavery.
Slavery incidentally is still alive and well around the world. bit doesn’t think there are many slave owners these days who use the Bible as justification for the practice.
In addition the Bible, the New Testament, contains the most wonderful story ever told: salvation through Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.
Seems obvious to bit that you don’t put much respect in the Book. You got something better?
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:58 amBit, you make my point. The Bible is used according to whomever is interpreting it according to how they read it. People have used it to justify slaver and people have used it to condemn it. The point is that the bible is completely open for interpretation. I’ve always asked how a god can supposedly create something of such dire importance and then leave it so nebulous and archaic. Just doing a comparison of the 4 gospels shows that contradictions abound in the bible.
“In addition the Bible, the New Testament, contains the most wonderful story ever told: salvation through Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.”
This is one of the sillier notions put forward by Christians. So god decides to throw away huge numbers of humans that have never nor will ever hear of Jesus.
October 2nd, 2008 at 1:11 pmbitblt Says:
Isn’t a statement about the proper expression of human sexuality an implicit comment on other, improper expressions of human sexuality such as homosexuality?
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No it isnt. If I say it is appropriate for a couple to go to Las Vegas on their honeymoon it ISNT in any way saying that it is improper to go anywhere ELSE. Your attempt is desperate and frankly not even a good try.
October 2nd, 2008 at 3:02 pmHasn’t anyone noticed that Sara Palin doesn’t really answer direct questions? She re-directs those questions back at the interviewer, or panders. She can’t coherently form an answer to a directed question.
Poor thing, all she has is bumper-sticker-philosophy. What happens when she runs out of bumper stickers to read? Will she simply keep repeating the same tired old speech she gave at the RNC? Bless her heart!
October 2nd, 2008 at 6:17 pmAs a retired man reflecting on my choice to be gay, I recall at age 11 or so seeing several older boys grabbing a neighborhood boy they called a queer. They pinned him against a telephone pole and began punching him in the gut and kicking him in the shins. When they finished with him, he slumped to the ground in pain, crying and moaning. Later I discovered what “queer” meant [today the hate word is gay].
December 6th, 2008 at 5:54 pmWhen angry, older boys would call each other queer, whether they were or not. This action many times ended in a fight. As I experienced an erection at night, in the safety of my bed, especially after seeing girls with round bottoms and enlarging breasts, I would shun such thoughts and masturbate to the images of these violent experiences with these “queers.” I chose the violence, the strange taste of male ejaculate, and the never ending prejudice of other males in my society; I enjoyed being called “queer,” well, not exactly, but, what the hell, this was what I wanted. A few times, after losing a few jobs, the total renunciation by my family for choosing to be “queer,” I have experienced regret, but having no place in the church or in society has been a wonderful choice for my life. My life, my choice. Right, Mrs Palin?