Poor thing, all she has is bumper-sticker-philosophy. What happens when she runs out of bumper stickers to read? Will she simply keep repeating the same tired old speech she gave at the RNC? Bless her heart!

Isn’t a statement about the proper expression of human sexuality an implicit comment on other, improper expressions of human sexuality such as homosexuality?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No it isnt. If I say it is appropriate for a couple to go to Las Vegas on their honeymoon it ISNT in any way saying that it is improper to go anywhere ELSE. Your attempt is desperate and frankly not even a good try.

“In addition the Bible, the New Testament, contains the most wonderful story ever told: salvation through Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.”

This is one of the sillier notions put forward by Christians. So god decides to throw away huge numbers of humans that have never nor will ever hear of Jesus.

.
.
.
. No one these days would dare think about killing another human being for believing something other than what (or whatever you interpret) the Bibles says, but it does say to murder people who worship other gods.
Besides, the BIble has been used to justify all kinds of terrible things including slavery.
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:19 am

The New Testament, the source of Christianity, does not instruct Christians to kill people who are not Christian, and as far as bit can tell, only those people whose history is recorded in the Old Testament were instructed to kill other people. They were instructed to do this by God, according to the Bible.

Further, the Bible has been used to justify all kinds of wonderful things including the abolition of slavery and untold acts of kindness. Isn’t that interesting? Some of the worst and some of the best human actions have been justified with the Bible. Makes one want to question the intentions of those who use the Bible to justify their actions, doesn’t it?

Do you suppose there would still be slavery in the U.S. if Christian based societies hadn’t struggled to abolish slaver? Notably, the Apostle Paul in the NT says that slaves and masters are equal in Christ.

bit thinks the industrial revolution would have taken care of slavery.

Slavery incidentally is still alive and well around the world. bit doesn’t think there are many slave owners these days who use the Bible as justification for the practice.

In addition the Bible, the New Testament, contains the most wonderful story ever told: salvation through Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.

Seems obvious to bit that you don’t put much respect in the Book. You got something better?

No, actually it’s not clear. There’s significant disagreement among scholars around this point.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibg.htm

Anyone who wants to do some research should look at the above link which looks at both sides of this story.

But again, who cares what the Bible says? Like I said, it’s an archaic document that clearly shows the limited world view of humans 2 or 3 thousand years ago. It’s fully of petiness and sheer stupidity from stem to stern. No one these days would dare think about killing another human being for believing something other than what (or whatever you interpret) the Bibles says, but it does say to murder people who worship other gods.

Besides, the BIble has been used to justify all kinds of terrible things including slavery.

Homosexuality is not about sexuality. It’s about who you are attracted to emotionally as well as physically. You guys are just obsessed with procreation for some reason.

And it doesn’t matter one bit what the bible says or doesn’t say. Anyone who thinks the bible is the end all be all of a subject lacks serious intellectual capacity. Actually what is says is a person who hasn’t taken the time to critically look at the document (or rather mish-mash of cobbled together documents) called the Bible. It is contradictory, error ridden, mistranslated (actually there are no original docs for the new testament), altered over time and just plain made up at others.

I would recommend people read Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman Ph.D.

If you claim to be Christian. If you claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ. And he said nothing on the topic of homosexuality. (Although he warned plenty about judging others). Does it really make sense to be putting the words in his mouth?
If Jesus didn’t say it, who is speaking for Jesus?
October 1st, 2008 at 7:45 pm

Jesus did use the word Sodom in a comparison. Sodom was a city destroyed by God because of the wickedness of its inhabitants. This is recorded in Genesis around the fourteenth chapter. The narrative in Genesis makes it clear that the inhabitants were homosexuals. This city, and its subsequent destruction, gives us the name Sodomy to describe a class of crimes.

Since Jesus uses the name in a comparison where the name Sodom is used as an example of a really bad example, believe it’s reasonable to say that Jesus indirectly addresses the issue of homosexuality.

That’s bit opinion.

Using your logic, Jesus didn’t say that the destruction of Sodom was a mistake.

If you claim to be Christian. If you claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ. And he said nothing on the topic of homosexuality. (Although he warned plenty about judging others). Does it really make sense to be putting the words in his mouth?
If Jesus didn’t say it, who is speaking for Jesus?
October 1st, 2008 at 7:45 pm

bit doesn’t believe that one can categorically say that Jesus didn’t say anything on the topic of homosexuality. bit does believe that one can categorically say that Jesus didn’t directly address the topic of homosexuality in the New Testament. See you’re already a better Bible scholar.

At the end of the book of John, John makes it clear that not everything Jesus did was recorded. John says that if all the things Jesus had done were put in books they would fill the earth. I assume John was using hyperbole, but metaphorically everything Jesus did does fills the earth now. John says what was recorded in his book was to make believers.

Jesus did address the topic of appropriate sexual expression in Matthew 19. bit is paraphrasing here when he recalls that Jesus said that the Creator intended for a man and a woman to be one flesh in marriage. This “one flesh” is a relationship that only a man and a woman can achieve. These Genesis verses, which Jesus quoted in his remark, are the authority for marriage.

Isn’t a statement about the proper expression of human sexuality an implicit comment on other, improper expressions of human sexuality such as homosexuality?

October 1st, 2008 at 5:50 pm

UprightLeft, not troubled by your question, as others have asked the same of me previously.

I do question my partners beliefs, but they are his to reconcile with himself. I’ve talked with him about what he believes, and he’s told me his perspectives, and we’ve found areas in which we respectfully disagree with each other.

I practice what I preach, and I live how I would have others treat me. He’s told me that I’m the first Christian that hasn’t tried to tell him how wrong he is or that he’s going to Hell because of his faith.

To me, false faith is worse than no faith at all, and trying to get him to agree with me would be forcing him against his faith.

Trust me, it’s not all roses at the casa! ;-) If my example leads him to God, so much the better. I’m not going to shove his face in my faith, just as I wouldn’t want anyone else trying to tell me that my relationship with God is false because they don’t agree with my orientation.

It’s not always an easy road to follow, but noting in life ever is easy! Peace!

Hey Darryll,

Q U E S T I O N:

… Then why didn’t Jesus instruct us to HATE and CONDEMN our neighbor?

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ralph. It just seems that those that want to spread their faith, should at a minimum, know their faith.

The burden should be on them.

I’ve still got an open mind, but every serious conversation I have had with believers (usually monotheists), ends with them saying that their belief requires faith.

I’ll paraphrase what I think their position is: I believe something. I can’t prove it. It doesn’t logically make sense. But, I just believe it. And because I believe it, you should too. And there’s something about your not believing, that concerns me or threatens my belief.

Gotta go to bed. But, I will pray for you all. Good night.

October 1st, 2008 at 9:05 pm
______

The Bible says “…make disciples of all the nations…” I’ve never known a Christian who wanted to force their religion on others. I’ve only known Christians who share their faith with those who are willing to hear out of a sense of duty (meaning they are uncomfortable approaching people) or because they feel a burden for the lost. I’ve certainly never known a Christian whose faith is in any way threatened by the unbelief of others. Perhaps you are misinterpreting their concern for your salvation.

Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.”
He changed the need for sacrifices for sin, but not all the previous laws. We cannot put words in Jesus’ mouth. Nor can we try to make it ok to do everything that He didn’t specifically prohibit.

This is hardly the forum for an in depth explanation of that subject. If you truly want to know, call some local churches and speak to a variety of pastors. That should answer some of your questions. If you are looking for concrete proof of God’s existence, you are wasting your time. God requires faith.

“It was because of these newfound understandings- that religious commitment did not require me to suspend critical thinking, disengage from the battle for economic and social justice, or otherwise retreat from the world that I knew and loved- that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ one day and be baptized.”

Barack Obama
The Audacity of Hope

It’s really very, very difficult to describe the hole I had to dig myself out of. When I say brainwashing I really do mean brainwashing. I was raised Mormon which, much to some people’s chagrin, is just another version of the larger cult of Christianity.

I was somewhat lucky in that I didn’t have to go through the electroshock ‘aversion’ therapy that some guys did.

Well, I lost some good years of my life to the psychological distress caused by these sham programs.

Sham is really the best and only word to adequately describe them. I was a very young and brainwashed (by religion) kid and went into the program like a lamb to a slaughter, to use a phrase.

In a nutshell they use shame as a way of convincing you there is something fundamentally wrong with you. Your orientation is the result of ‘gone bad’ psychology as a result of bad parenting.

So you walk away from these ‘programs’ thoroughly believing you are fundamentally flawed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y-LocO_YpQ&feature=PlayList&p=3BE04DBA31709238&index=0

I’ve done some podcasts on my experience which you can hear on YouTube.

If anyone thinks these programs are in some way helpful, they can come talk to me. I’ll set them straight…

So to speak.

No need for seriousness. It’s just backup.

backup Says:

I’ll paraphrase what I think their position is: I believe something. I can’t prove it. It doesn’t logically make sense. But, I just believe it. And because I believe it, you should too. And there’s something about your not believing, that concerns me or threatens my belief.

I’m with ya there, backup. I am a believer, as I said. My beliefs these days tend toward more ecumenical, even exotic ideas, but I still retain the basic moral framework that you recognize as Christianity.

The problem as I see it (and I’m sure you see it too) is the step you mention, “because I believe it, you should too”.

That’s the step that’s troubling. That’s a step that requires arrogance and an utter lack of a sense of the mystery of the ineffable.