ThinkFast: October 3, 2008
ThinkFast: October 3, 2008
The Labor Department announced that 159,000 jobs were lost this past month, marking the 9th straight month of job losses. Three-quarters of a million jobs have been shed so far this year. “September’s job losses were much more severe than predicted by Wall Street economists.”
At least eight lawmakers who voted against bailout legislation earlier this week “now say they would support the measure.” “Four others say they may switch their ballots before the House votes again, at about 12:30 p.m. today on the bill, which failed by a dozen votes on Sept. 29.” Additionally, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) says “he’s talked to some lawmakers he didn’t name who’ve agreed to change their votes.”
Mark Buse, now Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) Senate chief of staff, earned $460,000 as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac in 2003 and 2004. Buse joins McCain’s campaign manager Rick Davis in having close ties to the mortgage giant: Davis received more than $2 million for lobbying related to Fannie and Freddie, and received monthly payments of $15,000 up to this August.
The Pentagon “will pay private U.S. contractors in Iraq up to $300 million over the next three years to produce news stories, entertainment programs and public service advertisements for the Iraqi media in an effort to ‘engage and inspire’ the local population to support U.S. objectives and the Iraqi government.” contracts are part of the U.S. military’s “information/psychological operations” in Iraq for the future.
On the trail today: Barack Obama will talk on the economy in Abington, a Philadelphia suburb. Joe Biden speaks at a deployment ceremony in Dover, DE. John McCain will hold a town hall meeting at Colorado State University-Pueblo, and Sarah Palin will attend fundraisers in Dallas and San Antonio.
According to data obtained by the AP, “the Army and Marine Corps doled out nearly $640 million” to entice recruits in the fiscal year. Recruits were buoyed by incentives that can be as high as $40,000 each, which in total, “increased the costs of Army and Marine bonuses by 25 percent over last year.”
Yesterday, an Alaska judge “refused to block a state investigation into whether Gov. Sarah Palin abused her power when she fired her public safety commissioner this summer” and “denied the Alaska attorney general’s challenge of legislative subpoenas.” Chief legislative investigator Steve Branchflower, is scheduled to present his report on Palin in one week.
Yesterday, a federal judge refused to dismiss charges against Sen. Ted Stevens (R-AK). The judge explained that while “prosecutors had violated a rule requiring the sharing of exculpatory evidence,” that he was “‘not persuaded’ that the violations were serious enough to declare a mistrial.”
Rep. William Jefferson (D-LA) is seeking a 10th term in the U.S. House this Saturday “even though he was indicted last year on multiple federal corruption and bribery charges and is preparing to stand trial in December.”
And finally: Bill O’Reilly flipped out and did it live last night. The vituperative Fox host screamed and cursed at Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), hurling all sorts of personal insults and name-calling in his direction. Frank told O’Reilly his “stupidity gets in the way of rational discussion.” Watch O’Reilly’s screed here. “Be sure to strap on your helmet and elbow pads before watching this one.”
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The Pentagon “will pay private U.S. contractors in Iraq up to $300 million over the next three years to produce news stories…
All of which will be promptly canceled by the Obama administration. Gawd Obama sure is going to have a lot of garbage to clean up when he takes office. And Bush seems determined to continue to pile on as much more garbage as he can before he leaves office.
October 3rd, 2008 at 9:58 amJoe Biden Wins VP Debate
Biden gave the far superior debate performance by any objective standard. He focused largely on McCain, not Palin, and by doing so showed respect. Biden also put critical focus on the fact that John McCain voted and supported George Bush policies. Policies that showed his judgement has been wrong on every major issue over the last eight years. When the discussion moved to foreign policy, at any rate, her relentless strategy of talking only about tax cuts and energy policy, peppering her lines with plenty of Joe six-pack humor, which did not go over well with the independents. From the Iraq section onwards, she sometimes seemed to be clinging on by her fingertips.
I found her mockery and cutesy act over the top. The blowing a kiss to the audience before the debate-not only made me cringe but-it is so unprofessional for a person seeking the second highest office in the land. It offends me when women resort to tactics like that instead of using their brains and abilities.
I admit my opinion went up also of Joe Biden after the debate. I have to say I haven’t felt this way in a very long time, but it will be an honor to have Joe Biden as our next Vice President.
Videos and Reviews at The Zoo
October 3rd, 2008 at 9:58 amAnd finally: Bill O’Reilly flipped out last night. The vituperative Fox host screamed and cursed at him at Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), hurling all sorts of personal insults and name-calling in his direction.
Which once again brings up the question as to why Democrats even go on his show. That’s something I will never understand.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:00 amBeginning of the end?
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:01 amMcCain pulls money and resources out of Michigan, a supposed “swing state”, that’s obviously swinging towards Obama!
#Freedom Rebel Says:
Joe Biden Wins VP Debate
Biden gave the far superior debate performance by any objective standard.
I wasn’t able to watch the whole thing because listening to her is like fingernails on a blackboard for me. But what I did watch I found embarrassing. And I was especially embarrassed by Gwen Ifill. She did a horrible job as a moderator. She asked no follow-up questions and allowed Palin to get away with not answering the questions. After she went into a rehearsed talking point about energy in response to Ifill’s question about the bankruptcy law, Ifill should have followed up with “Thank you for that Governor Palin, now will you answer the question I asked about the bankruptcy law”.
The other embarrassing part of Palin’s performance were her winks and throwing kisses to the audience. She really did think she was in a beauty contest, not a debate.
Finally, about the “debate”. Since when are opponents allowed to bring notes into a debate?
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:05 amApparently McCain aligned Board members who advised Fannie Mae on regulatory manners to the tune of $1.8 million are off limits. Ken Duberstein helped McCain with his Presidential run in 2000. He served on the board when they approved those pay and severance packages.
As usual the Lyndie England’s are outed, but not the big boys.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:10 amLeft my thoughts of last night’s debate on the previous thread.
Congratulations to Joe Biden.
Some believe that Palin coming out looking like she wasn’t in remedial mode made her a great success. This is an insult to the concept of debating. She favored dramatic showboating over the facts, and that is the reason why her performance will not pass muster — it will officially be pronounced dead before a return to the presidential debates on Tuesday. Those so “relieved” that she didn’t stumble too much (heavily sequestered coaching and canned talking points will do that to you) will eventually have to acknowledge that her performance will not stand the test of time.
Biden’s knowledge was ingrained and the polls show it.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:11 amFreedom Rebel:
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:13 amYou just hate it that she’s hot…
“The Pentagon “will pay private U.S. contractors in Iraq up to $300 million over the next three years to produce news stories, entertainment programs and public service advertisements for the Iraqi media in an effort to ‘engage and inspire’ the local population to support U.S. objectives and the Iraqi government.” contracts are part of the U.S. military’s “information/psychological operations” in Iraq for the future.”
Maybe actually DOING something positive in Iraq like keeping the running water flowing or assuring steady electrity rather than talking about it with the use of psy-ops would help. Hey, you know what else might help? GET OUR SOLDIERS THE FCK OUT OF THEIR COUNTRY! President Obama needs to strip funding from ALL of these “contractors” on day one! Talk about a waste of taxpayer money, these contractors have had a negative effect on Iraqi’s perception of America and it needs to end!
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:14 amFolks, Wall Street’s toxic assets are nearly everywhere. Giant hospital corporation HCA has a professional liability insurance subsidiary loaded with junk. They have $1.6 billion in level 2 or 3 investments, including derivatives and $652 million in auction rate securities.
Bain Capital, KKR, & Merrill Lynch PE took HCA private in November 2006. They saddled it with debt, raised interest expense $1.4 billion a year, cut taxes from $730 million to $360 million. That’s the model being pushed to save our financial system.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 am**I managed to see it all (while playing Palin Bingo!) Once again, by coming out before the debate claiming Ifill might be “predisposed” to Obama”, the repukes put everyone on the defense. Biden NEVER attacked back, Ifill NEVER called Palin on not answering the questions. And they (repukes) claim media bias and sexism? By allowing her to get away with this crap, I guess they are right! A male candidate would NOT be allowed to get away with this. So now, with one Lehrer-moderated debate and one Ifill-moderated debate under our belts, we have…ta da…Tom Brokaw??? Are there no decent moderators out there at all???
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:19 amI will be honest. Yesterday, I watched the VP debate with an open mind. Well, as open minded as one can get after spending the afternoon on a golf course, and indulging in a few selections of barley and hops (Yeah, call me an elitist!).
I do give credit to Palin for sticking to the Republican’s talking points, almost verbatim.
She is definitely intelligent, but alas, she admitted that these last 5 weeks, doesn’t know the ways of Washington. That should send warning signals to the “fence” voters.
Of the debate itself (and again, being honest, I fell asleep the last half hour), here are some things I noticed.
1) Biden kicked major a$$! He is intelligent, knows his stuff, came prepared, and man, his $hit eating grin whenever Palin attacked, was priceless!
2) The ultimate Bridge to Nowhere comment. May go down as one of the best in any debate history!
3) Does anyone not think she was peppered with the talking point of “Maverick” before the debates? I think America is growing tired of this faux claim.
4) She never countered Biden’s assertion that McCain was for deregulation. If the “fence” voters where paying attention, this may be the nails on the coffin for the (R)’s candidate.
5) She stated that McCain knows how to win wars. How? By being captured and giving information to the enemy?
6) She implied that we have yet to achieve victory in Iraq, countering what she had said earlier in the week. She also said that leaving Iraq would be akin to failure. How? If your team wins the big game, they don’t play extra innings just for kicks.
All in all, from what I watched, I’d say Joe won easily.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:19 amThe Pentagon “will pay private U.S. contractors in Iraq up to $300 million over the next three years to produce news stories,…
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:25 amFox plans to be on the take during the Obama administration
Good morning, satirev.
The burning question is, will these ever-swinging independents
give more weight to style or will they go with Biden’s substance. The initial answer is style. That’s where some are easily moved. The answer on election day will probably be substance. We all have to come to our senses at some point. Palin was so desperate to make an impression as evidenced by her rambling (and they accuse Biden of having a runny mouth?) that screamed “Look at me, I’m not that stupid after all! Look at me!!”
Given the heavily sequestered cramming sessions she underwent at McCain’s luxurious home(s), watch, she’ll probably forget everything by the time she returns to the campaign trail.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:25 amsatirev #9.
Yup!
from something I was working on this morning:
Palin had the format and a script to thank for not being figuratively gutted like a moose.
Biden on the other hand seemed to be largely unrestricted by the format.
With almost every question and rebuttal period he spoke knowledgeably about the given issue, exposed McCain’s and Palin’s weaknesses and explained Obama’s strengths whilst his words and manner spoke volumes about himself.
When Palin played the “main street” and ‘mommy’ cards Biden had the personal experiences to meet compete for the ‘sympathy vote’ that Palin was striving for.(end)
Gore had to get out of politics and get into a global crisis before he found his voice as a public speaker.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:25 amBiden hit a combination of professional and personal notes that I’ve never seen before in a VP candidate of either party.
With all the messes we are in Obama, though I’ve plenty of confidence in him, will be in much better shape with Biden as a partner in the WH, and the US will be better off for it.
“September’s job losses were much more severe than predicted by Wall Street economists.”
As they have been for the last 9 months basically.Wall street economists should STFU.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:27 amsatirev Says:
“Sarah CheatSheet either didn’t answer the question or read from her “script” the entire time. Pretty sad.”
The Palindrone
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:30 amFinally, about the “debate”. Since when are opponents allowed to bring notes into a debate?
Freb, good morning! Is bringing notes to a debate ever allowed? Just to make sure, did Biden have any notes on him?
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:32 ama selection from Financial Tsunami: The End of the World as We Knew It by F. William Engdahl -
As respected economist, Nouriel Roubini pointed out, in almost every case of recent banking crises in which emergency action was needed to save the financial system, the most economical (to taxpayers) method was to have the Government, as in Sweden or Finland in the early 1990’s, nationalize the troubled banks, take over their management and assets, and inject public capital to recapitalize the banks to allow them to continue doing business, lending to normal clients. In the Swedish case, the Government held the assets, mostly real estate, for several years until the economy again improved at which point they could sell them onto the market and the banks could gradially buy the state ownership shares back into private hands. In the Swedish case the end cost to taxpayers was estimated to have been almost nil. The state never did as Paulson proposed, to buy the toxic waste of the banks, leaving them to get off free from their follies of securitization and speculation abuses.
Paulson’s plan, the one essentially rejected on September 29 by the House of Representatives, would have done nothing to recapitalize the troubled banks. That recapitalization could cost an added hundreds of billions on top of the $700 billion toxic waste disposal.
Serious conservative banker friends I know who went through the Scandinavian crisis of the 1990’s are scratching their head trying to imagine how crass the Paulson TARP scheme was. That crass and politically obvious bailout of Wall Street by the taxpayers, what some refer to as ‘Bankers’ Socialism—socialize the costs of failure onto the public, and privatize the profits to the bankers—is a major factor behind the defeat of the TARP compromise version.
But there is an added element. John McCain decided to boost his flagging Presidential campaign by trying to profile himself as a ‘political Maverick’ one who opposes the powerful Washington vested interests. He flew into Washington days before the TARP was to be approved by a panicked Congress and conspired with a handful of influential Republican Senate friends, including Banking Committee ranking member, Senator Shelby, to oppose the Paulson TARP. What emerged, with McCain’s backing, was a political power play that may well have brought the United States financial system to its knees, and McCain’s Presidential hopes with it.
Power and greed are the only visible juice driving the decision-makers in Washington today. Acting in the long-range US national interest seems to have gotten lost in the scramble. As I wrote last November in my Financial Tsunami five part series on the background to today’s crisis, all this could be foreseen. It is what happens when elected Governments abandon their public trust or responsibility to a cabal of private financial interests. It will be interesting to see if anyone in Washington realizes that lesson. Whatever next comes out of Washington, however, one thing is clear, as reflected in what German Finance Minister Peer Steinbrück told the Bundestag. This is the end of the world as we knew it. The American financial Superpower is gone. The only important question will be what and how will the alternative be.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:33 amsatirev #31
Well I was worried about who Obama’s pick would be and I was satisfied when he picked Biden, but now I’m more than pleased by the choice, and it surely IS going to take two to handle Bush’s screw-ups.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:36 amsatirev…
yeah that more power for the VP was a stunner. An just before that… “Of course I know what the VP’s job is…”(you silly man!)was a beauty… “…because I;ve spent the last week being told what the job is, so there!”
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:40 amWhen I hear the sound bite from Pallid re: joe sixpack all I can think of how she is trying to attract the lowest common denominator. She is so insulting? And they don’t even know it? These are the people paying for their $700B swindle.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:43 amsatirev…
It’s going to be the to-do list from hell. Come top think of it, on the first Monday of February they should put up a list in the papers and on the web of all the crap they will have to take care of–it could be called ‘The Bill of Wrongs‘
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:45 am#42.
It wasn’t meant to be a question. This women is so damn insulting. It’s scary.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:48 amAnd the beat goes on Says:
Once again, by coming out before the debate claiming Ifill might be “predisposed” to Obama”, the repukes put everyone on the defense. Biden NEVER attacked back, Ifill NEVER called Palin on not answering the questions. And they (repukes) claim media bias and sexism? By allowing her to get away with this crap, I guess they are right! A male candidate would NOT be allowed to get away with this.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:19 am
________
I don’t know if that’s Ifill’s fault, though. That was the “debate” format the parties and the Commission on Presidential Debates agreed upon. It wasn’t designed for follow-up questions or to allow the candidates to attack back. That’s the way corporate America likes it, and that’s what they got.
Last night’s bit of political theater wasn’t a debate. It was a dual stump-speech with moderator interruptions.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:48 amjust talked to my mom, 84, normally R until this time… she is voting for OBAMA…
BUT…
she told me she thought palin did great… that maybe it was god’s way of getting a woman prez…
uuuuuuuuhhhg…
but that’s just the reaction i’m expecting from the wingers…
she’s their sweetheart, all right…
good gawd, the bar is so low…
that woman is wily and willful and a flirt… just their type…
she’s a great local pol, but nationally, worldly, NO WAY.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:48 amKay Says:
Whatever next comes out of Washington, however, one thing is clear, as reflected in what German Finance Minister Peer Steinbrück told the Bundestag. This is the end of the world as we knew it. The American financial Superpower is gone. The only important question will be what and how will the alternative be.
____________
And thus Osama Bin Ladin and George Bush successfully defeat the greatest superpower in the history of the world, in just eight short years.
MISSION INDEED ACCOMPLISHED!!!!
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:49 am#5 Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
#Freedom Rebel Says:
Joe Biden Wins VP Debate
Biden gave the far superior debate performance by any objective standard.
I wasn’t able to watch the whole thing because listening to her is like fingernails on a blackboard for me. But what I did watch I found embarrassing. And I was especially embarrassed by Gwen Ifill. She did a horrible job as a moderator. She asked no follow-up questions and allowed Palin to get away with not answering the questions. After she went into a rehearsed talking point about energy in response to Ifill’s question about the bankruptcy law, Ifill should have followed up with “Thank you for that Governor Palin, now will you answer the question I asked about the bankruptcy law”.
The other embarrassing part of Palin’s performance were her winks and throwing kisses to the audience. She really did think she was in a beauty contest, not a debate.
Finally, about the “debate”. Since when are opponents allowed to bring notes into a debate?
Very good poing Bilbo… She looked many times to be scrambling threw her notes…. I don’t ever recall in the past that in debates nominees had notes. If they did I never noticed it before. Palin absolutely needed hers.
I agree with you completely Bilbo, In a true debate she would have been kicked out for not answering the questions put forth to her. That part of the debate bothered me also very much. I felt Gwen should have called her on it as non-responsive. I found it rude….that Palin even said she was going to do it her way and not follow the rules… That really ticked me off..
Good to see you Bilbo :)
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:50 amThree quarter million jobs lost just this year. Tax cutting doesn’t creat jobs. Money in the base of the economy creates jobs. Good wages for workers not CEOs create jobs. Low taxes on high earners create millionaires and billionaires many of whom will take much of their money off shore.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:52 amWhy is the world treating this broad with kid gloves? Hillary would not have.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:52 am#12 madmax Says:
Freedom Rebel:
You just hate it that she’s hot…
LOL- I’m thinkin’ no…
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:53 amkaty: that woman is wily and willful and a flirt… just their type…
the ones that aren’t closeted gay men you mean :)
I think ‘Jezebel’ fits.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:53 am?I’m a proud registered Liberal, occasional MoveOn volunteer, and have supported Barack Obama financially as much as is practical on my budget. When I came across this site about 3 years ago, I was happy to find like-minded people in a time when I felt surrounded by the hate and intolerance of the Right. After awhile, I started to see some of those traits more and more frequently here. I saw trolls who might have come to see a more progressive point of view if they had not been relentlessly insulted. I even saw a victim of a name jacking mercilessly attacked due to one posting he did not make, even though day after day he put forward thoughtful comments that most agreed with. It didn’t stop until someone pointed out that it was obviously a troll using his name. Because of incidents like these, I stopped reading comments altogether.
?Some time passed, and I felt eager to read and share in a wider variety of perspectives once again. I had been gone so long, I had forgotten my password and needed to create a new log in. Now I’m saddened to say I can no longer even hope to believe that the Right has a monopoly on hate, intolerance and all the ugliness it entails. I’ve tried to treat people with some degree of respect, though at times it was hard, considering the likes of MightyAphrodite, IRightI, and Seixon.
Apparently not everyone has the same standard. I’m still stunned by the way I was treated last week simply because I disagreed with someone. My disagreement was neither political nor directly related to the posted topic. Yet I was called dumb, uneducated, not well read, a twit, a troll, and probably a few other names after I logged out for the night. All this from the party of tolerance? Ironically, if I’m not mistaken, one name caller was the person I mentioned above who
was “name jacked.” One latecomer had obviously not even read anything I posted, but merely jumped into the fray. Talk about lock step! When I found myself becoming defensive and sinking to their level, I made my decision to once again avoid the comments. I’m still here daily, reading the articles. I appreciate what Think Progress does in showing sides of the issues I never find anywhere else.
?When David Letterman spoke recently of McCain’s canceled appearance on his show, he said he felt sullied. That sums it up for me. I feel sullied and saddened.
~Lily
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:55 amOMG, check out that Billo & Barney Frank clip — Frank emasculates Billo on his own show. :-D
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:56 amThe Pentagon “will pay private U.S. contractors in Iraq up to $300 million over the next three years to produce news stories, entertainment programs and public service advertisements for the Iraqi media in an effort to ‘engage and inspire’ the local population to support U.S. objectives and the Iraqi government.”
Ummm, no they won’t.
Not under Obama’s administration, anyway.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:58 ammadmax Says:
——————————————————————————–
Freedom Rebel:
You just hate it that she’s hot…
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:13 am
Then she should be posing for Playboy , because that’s where her IQ level is…………..
BTW
The 1 thing I found the most repugnant last night was Bible Spice’s referrencing Biden’s dead wife and using her own religious beliefs to claim that Biden’s wife has been “rewarded” by being admitted to “heaven” ; what a fu(king moronic jackass…………….
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:58 am#27 5th Estate
Gore had to get out of politics and get into a global crisis before he found his voice as a public speaker.
Biden hit a combination of professional and personal notes that I’ve never seen before in a VP candidate of either party.
With all the messes we are in Obama, though I’ve plenty of confidence in him, will be in much better shape with Biden as a partner in the WH, and the US will be better off for it.
5th Estate, It was one of the highlights when he talked about his family. I agree, he hit the perfect pitch and set the tone for the whole debate. No attacks at Palin that could have come back later by the pundits as he was being mean.
I liked it when he spoke so intelligently about all the problems and solutions in the Middle East… I respect him for his knowledge and his thoughtful insight into matters concerning Pakistan and Iran…
Good Morning :)
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:00 amFR, I also found it wierd that Palin basically blew the moderator off right from the start, saying she wasn’t going to answer questions the way the moderator requested.
I wish Gwen Ifill had smacked her down a bit on that note.
It was clear she had her talking points memorized, and was told to stick with them, no ad libbing.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:02 amShe’s pathetic.
She also lied her ass off about Obama’s voting record, forcing Biden to spend time he could have been answering questions to defending Obama against her bullshit.
Idyll, Sorry I hurt your feelings.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:03 amIdyll Says:
——————————————————————————–
When David Letterman spoke recently of McCain’s canceled appearance on his show, he said he felt sullied. That sums it up for me. I feel sullied and saddened.
~Lily
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:55 am
Want a crying towel ?
I’d offer to play violin , but I’m merely a guitarist …….
Letterman was outright lied to ; anyone who criticized you did so under their regular posting name here.
At least you were confronted as honestly and as much as is allowed on an anonymous political blog site ; and you’re claiming to share feelings with Letterman ?
Christ , what the hell is with some of the people that post here ?
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:04 amHow come nobody brought up the obvious successful witchcraft prevention that her pastor performed?
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:04 amShe was protected from witches all night long, not a single one appeared out of thin air to lay any sleeping death curses on her, only on the audience.
Idyll, it’s sad that you’re saddened by the harsh treatment that some posters get when disagreeing, but on a lighter note, I’ve got some barely used rhino skin I could let you borrow?
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:05 am#33 McWars Says:
Finally, about the “debate”. Since when are opponents allowed to bring notes into a debate?
Freb, good morning! Is bringing notes to a debate ever allowed? Just to make sure, did Biden have any notes on him?
Good Morning McWars :) Biden seemed like he had only one page. He never moved it either, just looked like he was marking off issues he wanted to make sure he addressed…
At least that is the way it appeared to me anyways…
I guess they can have notes since they were put on the podiums in advance. I just never noticed in the past that any candidate had ever used them before..
Good to see you as always :)
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:05 amDoc Rock Says:
Three quarter million jobs lost just this year. Tax cutting doesn’t creat jobs. Money in the base of the economy creates jobs. Good wages for workers not CEOs create jobs. Low taxes on high earners create millionaires and billionaires many of whom will take much of their money off shore.
Well said. Assuming that the wealthiest are most productive — as evidenced by the GOP’s tax plans — is patently misleading. Pay for productivity has been out of order for a long time in this country. Wealthy people don’t even seem to deliver in spending power – they like for their money to sit out in assorted accounts.
This “wealth redistribution” crap irks my nerves because the right refuses to reward THE hard working people in our country. The rich want wars for which they refuse to pay. That is economically unprecedented and unsuitable.
Besides, I don’t get what the fuss is all about. The right clamors to return to the Reagan days, and in this case they would get to pay no more in taxes than they did then.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:07 amIdyll Says:
I’ve tried to treat people with some degree of respect, though at times it was hard, considering the likes of MightyAphrodite, IRightI, and Seixon.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:55 am
_______
Who the hell are they? Never seen these screen names before.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:07 amAnd yet the McCain-Palin coven keep trying to connect Obama-Biden with Freddie Mack including the nefarious lie about “three top Obama economic advisors” circulating virally among the Limbaugh entranced. Rove has clearly devised the attack-your-opponent-with-what-you’ll-be-accused-of tactics and the Repunantlicans have been using that since back in early Dubya times when trying to pass the obscene tax cuts Dick Cheney warned Dems would cry, “Class War,” which, of course, those cuts were!
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:07 amMcMetal, I think Palin was referencing Biden’s present wife and her job as a teacher. I just defended Palin, I feel so dirty!
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:09 amGood Morning poster’s,….I started watching the debate and five minutes into it had to put on a movie and shut it down….All the profesional women I have known DO Not USE cutsie little winking trick’s to make a point, femanin while’s in business are so old time walin palian is showing she is 1950ish…If a person can stand more than 5 minute’s of her terrible voice and dumbass sophmoric trick’s they indeed have my respect for their armor against sillyness…Kill the wolve’s, pretend wonder woman is far to immature for this old woman to tolerate….
159,000 more lost job’s….Month’s of these losses are showing across the country..We never had this during the Clinton year’s..Make’s me wonder as all the unemployed run out of benefit’s and the homeless population increses what is going to happen going into another terrible winter with no food and shelter for so many…
Next stop the war’s…Notice how little is being written or covered about all the dieing…It has to make mr evil in charge very happy that no one is watching his scurring around and shredding everything while we are all busy looking at the magic man’s cute bimbo barbie running mate he and the rest of this evil administration are stealing us all blind and getting more people killed..
One other tiny thought, I think rove and cheney must be very pleased mcnut’s picked a female version of bull shit bush for their next possible pres…There is a lot similar in comparing bull shit bush and walin palin, point one, they are made up charicture’s with dumb ass language directed to the voter’s that do not pay close attention to American or world view problem’s…Pound the bible, wave the flag and spew short pretend patriot line’s while they steal away our country and constitution….
It’s Friday and my world of hugging tree’s, feeding bird’s and walking Oso is first on my list…Have a good day posting…Sorry for the length….P.B.& J
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:09 amToasty, old, worn out, discarded trolls who don’t come back under their old names any more.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:09 amSen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) Senate chief of staff, earned $460,000 as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac in 2003 and 2004
Let’s see – the people are against high priced CEOs who drive a company into the ground and walk away with a fat check. And McCain has:
1/2 mill lobbyist – check (although still low by CEO standards)
Former disastrous head of HP – check
etc. etc.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:11 amShe was constantly glancing at her notes, Freb. I’m not a presidential history buff, but that may have been the most coached debate performance ever witnessed.
As for Gwen Ifill, I’m very disappointed. It’s as if the right was successful in telling her to know her place.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:11 amHave a good day, Freb.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:13 amA billion plus dollars to recruit for our overused and abused military forces and for blatant propaganda to fool the Iraqis and, yes, the American public that things are hunky-dorey! But no money for childrens’ medical expenses, to help victims of predatory lending enabled and condoned by our government!
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:13 am#58 RUCerious Says:
FR, I also found it wierd that Palin basically blew the moderator off right from the start, saying she wasn’t going to answer questions the way the moderator requested.
I wish Gwen Ifill had smacked her down a bit on that note.
It was clear she had her talking points memorized, and was told to stick with them, no ad libbing.
She’s pathetic.
She also lied her ass off about Obama’s voting record, forcing Biden to spend time he could have been answering questions to defending Obama against her bullshit.
Good Morning RUC :)
I was upset by that fact also that she lied about the facts over and over again. It was almost like if I say it enough I can convince the public that I’m telling the truth…
Plus, it is unfair in a debate to not follow the format that has been set in place. I agree with you Gwen did a very poor job controlling this debate. In the presidential debate that wouldn’t have been allowed. I don’t understand why they relaxed the rules for this one.. For me it sets a very bad precedence in allowing the debaters to choose which questions they will answer and which they will completely ignore.
Good to see you RUC, have a good day…
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:16 amI believe we lost around 750,000 jobs just this year. This is really a sad time for America. People need to wake up.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:17 amGood Morning witch1 :) I agree, Palin is the feminine version of Cheney… She wants to expand executive VP powers and she isn’t even in office yet…. WOW
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:18 amI’m curious, with all the political discourse, and issues regarding the upcoming election, Idyll writes a post basically asking for sympathy.
Why?
This is not an attack, but a suggestion.
Thick skin. Don’t take what someone calls you as personal.
It’s a blog, where most are free to post whatever they want as long as it stays withing the parameters of the “terms”.
Most “attacks” at any blog are more prominent because of no actual face to face contact. I believe most attackers here would not be so aggressive when confronted with an actual person, but that their inner anger surfaces with the face of anonymity.
That said, I’m sorry you feel this way. Most here care what you have to post, as long as it’s not done with “trollish” intentions.
Heck, I love to debate opposing view points, and have had respectful “arguments” in the past with the likes of Exley and hackerbob.
But please don’t lump us all into “hate” when even yourself admitted it was only one or two posters.
As for myself, I usually only swing when I, or others, have been swung at, although with the absurdity of Parodyll’s posts, I admit to allowing myself a free for all with his stupidity.
And, as Spencersmom always ends with:
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:21 amPEACE
Hussein McCain Says:
——————————————————————————–
McMetal, I think Palin was referencing Biden’s present wife and her job as a teacher. I just defended Palin, I feel so dirty!
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:09 am
You’re correct ; I screwed up that entire post.
I meant to post that Bible Spice completely ignoring Biden’s tear-up mentioning of his 1st wife and her arrogance in believing that Jill Biden is ticketed for “heaven” ; how the hell does she know that ?
Palin is a total shitstain………
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:22 amWitch, your post could be triple the size and I would have still read. Great interwoven thoughts. The country is hard-pressed right now while the sinister version of optimists rub their well-being in the face of struggling people.
McCain never meant “ingenuity of the American worker” in his ignorant “fundamentals of the economy are strong” comment. Why would the American worker care to be complemented on their ingenuity when they have no place (read: job) to showcase their abilities?
Food and a decent place to live are so much a part of the very basic American standard-of-living that being homeless or being at risk of being homeless should be entirely something of the past.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:23 amMcWars & WitchyOne, great points.
For those less fortunate than I, we need to reach out and make sure their lives aren’t shattered beyond recognition by the dastardly policies of BushitCo.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:29 amhussein toasterhead Says:
Idyll Says:
… the likes of MightyAphrodite, IRightI, and Seixon.
Who the hell are they? Never seen these screen names before.
count your blessings…
…
but speaking of seixon – have you heard about the mass murdering shooter in finland? wasn’t that seixon’s home base then?
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:29 amSarah Polecat’s (sp?) performance (and that’s *exactly* what it was – a performance) last night totally pissed me off; she was snarky, rude, condescending and totally sexist.
She was completely disrespectful toward Joe Biden and to Gwen Ifill – for all the world like a snickering 4th grader mouthing off to the teacher for the benefit of his little classmates – secure in the fact that because she’s a GIRL neither Joe Biden nor Gwen Ifill would smack her down like she deserved to be smacked down. (Hard.)
Made me want to burn my Vagimerican card. *barf*
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:33 amBack at ya,..McWars, Thank you!.I alway’s read your post’s as well, very insightful and well written….I envy you and all the good poster’s that can spell and write far better than I…Maybe envy isn’t the correct word, let me change it to admire..
Good morning Freedom….Yep!..Everything the reich doe’s is slight of hand and magic trick’s while they sell the country out and dismantel the constitution..
RUCerious, good to read you here this morning as well..Had to laugh at the witch hunting stuff….Witche’s are very busy now until the full moon..LOL…Blessings all.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:40 am“Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.” – Andrew Jackson
This game is an old one.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:43 amAlejandro ~ Bravo!
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:52 amDRxJ Says:
Beginning of the end?
McCain pulls money and resources out of Michigan, a supposed “swing state”, that’s obviously swinging towards Obama!
Palin was the beginning of the end for McIdiot, as the American people realized there really was no vetting process. As for the debate, I could barely stand not to throw a brick at my tv–her “gee shucks” snarky replies and idiotic winking were so unprofessional. Thank you God that many of the people in my home state are smart enough to see through the bs moniker that is the McCain campaign. It gives me hope for the other states that may also swing towards Obama.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 pmDid anyone see an earpiece (or cord) on Palin at last night’s debate? Wouldn’t surprise me a bit, since Chimpy used one against John Kerry in 2004. Speaking of the Kerry-Bush debate, I would love it when Kerry would be shooting holes in Bush’s stance on certain topics, and the look Bush would have on his face!
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 pmNo earpiece that I could see and, trust me, I was looking for it. She did seem to have A LOT of notes though, and it did seem that Biden had a single piece of paper in front of him. I also saw they both had a pen in hand, and both were marking off something each time the other talked.
I say BRAINS BEFORE BEAUTY!! KUDOS TO BIDEN
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:14 pmIs it known for a fact (sourcable, please) that the candidates were allowed to use pre-prepared notes?
It sure looked like Palin was using them, but I didn’t see that as part of the debate rules.
Also, I didn’t see her writing ANYTHING during the entire debate, yet she constantly looked down at them there notes.
I would really like to know if this is a guess, cheating, or if they were actually allowed to bring cheet sheets.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:15 pmI had debate in high school and the first couple of times we were allowed a couple of notes, on a 3 x 5 index card, but that was only in the beginning and that’s it. My debate coach would have killed us if we had continued to use them. I wish I knew if he was still around so I could ask him about it.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:20 pmUmm, quick question. How long does a comment usually get held up “awaiting moderation”? I’d never noticed it before, but I’ve had a couple of posts (neither of which contained anything that I would regard as being out of line with the general content and character of the debate on this site) that seemed to disappear into some black hole.
Are there any posted guidelines of things the moderators would wish us to avoid? I respect the job of reporting and fact-checking that ThinkProgress provides for its readers, and I love reading the lively commentary, but every time I try to participate, things don’t go so well. I’m not ranting, I just want to add my voice to the discussion here from time to time.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:23 pmSahu:
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:29 pmModeration is like carousel. You never get rejuvenited. It is most likely that you used some variant of the word which may not be written
IRightI — yeah… gone to rehab for confused christio-fascist mysogenic retards. Still, occasionally he would enilven a conversation, as is the case with ‘trolls’ on occasion: sometimes they are usefult o stimulate conversation and thought. …sometimes…
October 3rd, 2008 at 1:08 pmThe Pentagon “will pay private U.S. contractors in Iraq up to $300 million over the next three years to produce news stories, entertainment programs and public service advertisements for the Iraqi media in an effort to ‘engage and inspire’ the local population to support U.S. objectives and the Iraqi government.” contracts are part of the U.S. military’s “information/psychological operations” in Iraq for the future.
Isnt this what the Nazis did during those dark years ?? What gives another country the right to imposes its values on another? And right now America’s values are not looking too good.
October 3rd, 2008 at 1:08 pmdeebaser Says:
“Is it known for a fact (sourcable, please) that the candidates were allowed to use pre-prepared notes?”
I haven’t heard anything, but my take was that she memorized her notes and wrote them down as fast as she could. From the cutaways, I could see that she was writing as furiously as she could during Biden’s first answer and from then on.
From her manner, my perception was that she wasn’t writing anything she felt or was responding to, it was just stuff she memorized and seemed too afraid to forget.
So, I’m not really buying the cheat sheet argument, but I do think it was a variation of that, in it’s own way… as if she had spent a lot of time memorizing what to write down for a cheat sheet.
October 3rd, 2008 at 1:09 pmIn retrospect, methinks Palin and Couric put on a real good act over the past week or so. Last night Palin was well-coached and confident, previously she was a blithering idiot. Looks like a ratings play.
BTW, they’re both blithering idiots.
October 3rd, 2008 at 1:15 pmdbadass,
LOL @ Logan’s Run reference…
Incidentally I have a Black Longsleeve fleece with a Large Frontal Gray Block on it that I’ve taken to wearing a black longsleeve fleece with a gray block on the chest for my friends 30th birthdays.
October 3rd, 2008 at 1:16 pmSahu,
The rule of thumb is never EVER spell correctly any words that contain exact spellings of a certain human body orifice (an*l).
EVER!
Moderation deems that inappropriate.
No can*l, no an*lyze, and certainly no an*lysis.
Dumb, we know. But nothing has yet been done.
October 3rd, 2008 at 1:37 pmThe bill passed the house full of extra goodie’s to the tune of an added hundred billion with not a penny for job’s among other badly needed social program’s…Now watch after the party, no good bill’s will go forward…They could of done much better if any one back there gave a shit about our country and her people..
Welcome to A C of A…That is Authoritarian, Capitalism of America….Blessings…So long Republic and democracy it was nice knowing ya.
October 3rd, 2008 at 1:48 pm