New NIE warns that ‘victory’ is not certain in Iraq.
By on Oct 8th, 2008 at 11:23 am
New NIE warns that ‘victory’ is not certain in Iraq.
A new National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) reportedly “warns that unresolved ethnic and sectarian tensions in Iraq could unleash a new wave of violence, potentially reversing the major security and political gains achieved over the last year.” McClatchy notes that the NIE’s findings “cast doubts on McCain’s frequent assertions that the United States is ‘on a path to victory” and instead echo Gen. David Petraeus, who has objected to using the word “victory” for war in Iraq.
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Well, to be fair, McCain never did say who was actually getting the victory….
October 8th, 2008 at 11:26 amVictory in Iraq is a buzzword like their lapel pins. It means nothing.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:27 amAdults wouldn’t be talking about victory when discussing war. This administration has done a fine job dumbing down the conversation.
Wars are fought with strategies and tactics which may be successful or unsuccessful, still other times you are not able to gauge the success of a particular mission. But victory and defeat are senseless. This is not High School football we’re talking about.
These guys would assume if each “enemy” is dead, we’ve won. Really?
October 8th, 2008 at 11:30 amDefeat has already occurred . . the Iranians are in full control and are trying to get us to leave without starting another firestorm that they will be left to clean up.
Did anyone catch this interview with former CIA agent Robert Baer (Syrianna) and Terry Gross on NPR where he states matter of factly “of course he’s (Bin Laden) dead!”?
http://www.radiodujour.com/mp3/ishedead.mp3
October 8th, 2008 at 11:31 am(2 minute mp3 audio clip – should launch your media browser – not a link to another site)
Surge, baby, surge. Moose, baby, moose. Drill, baby, drill. Die, retirees, die. Fascism, baby, fascism.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:34 amNew NIE warns that ‘victory’ is not certain in Iraq.
Obviously , the memo was not sent to either the GOP or McDepends’ campaign headquarters ………
October 8th, 2008 at 11:37 amMcCain fails to realize that there are many reasons why the Iraqi insurgency calmed down. The Surge no doubt was a factor. But so was “the surge” in jobs offered by an expanded Iraqi public sector. As well as bribes paid to combatants like the Muqtada al-Sadr’s Mahdi Army. Why should Obama kowtow to McCain’s narrow and incomplete (at best) analysis of the military situation in Iraq? What gets me is why Obama does at least have surrogates counter McCain’s assertions. Unless he figures that ignoring McCain on that point is the best tactics for now. Or if a valid counter to McCain is offered that will almost certainly be seized on as evidence of Obama’s defeatism and anti-Americanism.
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October 8th, 2008 at 11:37 amIf only someone could ask Sarahcuda what she thinks of this NIE.
“In what respect, Charlie?”
October 8th, 2008 at 11:38 amBible Spice believes the NIE stands for the “New International Eye-Wink Federation”………..
October 8th, 2008 at 11:40 amradiodujour Says:
It doesn’t matter if bin laden is dead or not. The terrorists were never in Iraq and mccain and bush never intended to deal with the terrorist problem. It was an excuse to invade Iraq.
Iraq will go down in history as the biggest military blunder in the history of the world.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:40 amSays it all.
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October 8th, 2008 at 11:40 amI feel that this Iraq situation is quite similar to Vietnam. No matter if we stay 10 more months or 10 more years, the results will be the same. We can tamp down the violence, but the Sunnis and Shias hate each other and will continue to fight until one of the groups come out on top. I do not think they are intersted in democracy, they are only interested in their side being in charge. W. led us into a lose-lose situation.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:43 am“U.S. officials familiar with the new National Intelligence Estimate said they were unsure when the top-secret report would be completed and whether it would be published before the Nov. 4 presidential election.”
Bush had no problem leaking the summary conclusions of the 2002 NIE in October as he made his case for war
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/29/mcclellan-bush-authorized-declassification-of-2002-nie-and-leak-of-valerie-plames-idenity/
but in all other years the NIE has been purposely delayed and often manipulated of course.
I imagine at this time however, not a whole hell of a lot of people care too much about what the NIE might say but Bush and McCain will care because it will certainly say that “the Surge” has achieved nothing that was intended ( apart from reducing US deaths by the simple expedient of actually reducing vulnerable patrols–which didn’t need an extra 35,000 troops to accomplish!) .
October 8th, 2008 at 11:45 amlarkohio Says:
I do not think they are intersted in democracy, they are only interested in their side being in charge. W. led us into a lose-lose situation.
___________
Gee… wasn’t that pretty much the standard opinion of everyone who knew anything at all about Iraq? That the US couldn’t possibly achieve a “traditional” military victory in the midst of such nasty, entrenched sectarian hostility?
Got stupidity?
October 8th, 2008 at 11:49 amVictory in Iraq is as possible as McCain telling the truth on an issue.
No Honor can ever be achieved by an illegal invasion.
OT/ New Wall Street motto:
October 8th, 2008 at 11:51 am‘Socialize our Losses while we Privatize our gains’
“I hate the smell of NIE in the morning—it smells like no victory” Rear Vice Poop-Deck Admiral John Maverick (retd.)
October 8th, 2008 at 11:51 amDont blink – just wink!
October 8th, 2008 at 11:53 amDoes that mean that they (whomever the NIE authors are) are beginning to realize military action won’t by itself end the problem in Iraq?? Surge (or is it escalation?) or not.
How about maybe diverting some of those billions used by the military to their economy for reconstruction of the country or at least encourage their own government to engage in a economic development plan that they can afford themselves?. They do have a surplus economy unlike us. The work should be done by Iraqis instead of by US corporations (Bechtel, Halliburton, etc..).
They have a worse economy than us with high unemployment and lots of time to seethe in their differences as well as anger to the US. Give them jobs and some sense of hope and maybe they will start forgetting to kill themselves. It will take generations before there will be any kind of stability.
Besides, didn’t we already “win” the war? It’s the peace we can’t seem to be able to achieve.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:54 am“And you know who doesn’t believe there’s any intelligence in the NIE, which disputes our victory and the success of the surge? That one” (says McSame, pointing into a mirror…).
October 8th, 2008 at 12:01 pmSome people decided to make sure we knew about this before Election Day. I don’t think they were giving away any secrets, because those of us paying attention to Iraq already know the problems Bush wants to cover up. The reason for keeping the new Iraq NIE under wraps is to prevent an official confirmation of the all bad news from coming out.
October 8th, 2008 at 12:07 pmNot to mention the US made things much worse by pissing off the Sunnis as soon as they had toppled Saddam. And now 5 years and one bloody Sunni-Shiite civil war later sectarian tensions and strife is much worse than they ever were under Saddam.
Heckuvajob Dubya
October 8th, 2008 at 12:08 pmlarkohio: I do not think they are interested in democracy,
I imagine the first thing any national public is interested in, after having had their country physically destroyed by war and then occupied by a military directed by self-serving incompetents who have attempted to impose an order of society by imperial fiat, is in creating some order out of the chaos and developing some structure to their shattered lives. They need to find order locally before they can establish it nationally.
October 8th, 2008 at 12:13 pmThe only reason bush invaded was to kill SH who tried to kill
October 8th, 2008 at 12:16 pmhis daddy. He got SH hung “mission accomplished”.
You guys misunderstand… It’s only “defeat” if we elect a Democrat and he withdraws from Iraq. It is “victory” if a Repulican is elected and he withdraws.
The sad thing is that this “logic” is actually working on such a (relatively) large percentage of Americans.
October 8th, 2008 at 12:20 pmPHUCK Mcwars and VICTORY, bring our soldiers home and put that money towards V.A. benes and our infrastructure.
October 8th, 2008 at 12:24 pmOK — effective immediately, every politician and pundit who uses the term “victory in Iraq” should be required to define it.
When will our media journalists and interviewers start demanding that?
October 8th, 2008 at 12:27 pmcluserphucktim-FLAGGED AGAIN you asswhole!
October 8th, 2008 at 12:30 pmIs that because “the surge” was such a success, like mr. mccain-and-abel likes to brag??
October 8th, 2008 at 12:40 pmWhy do the U.S. ingelligence agencies hate America?
October 8th, 2008 at 1:11 pmI can’t wait for St. McCain or King George to say how he doesn’t agree with the NIE or that it’s just wrong.
October 8th, 2008 at 1:13 pmHow exactly would we win an occupation? Would every Iraqi have to be waving a white flag at the same time?
October 8th, 2008 at 1:13 pmOh what a surprise! My history books tell me that sectarian tensions have hovered over Iraq for a thousand years. McCain is older than dirt, maybe he remembers when it all began.
October 8th, 2008 at 1:29 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
Five and a half years later they still can’t get an NIE on Iraq to agree…
… MISSION ACCOMPLISHED?
.
October 8th, 2008 at 1:34 pmunresolved ethnic and sectarian tensions in Iraq could unleash a new wave of violence
But, But, the SURGE!!
October 8th, 2008 at 2:06 pmKing George couldn’t even win the oil contracts.
October 8th, 2008 at 5:57 pm4180 dead.
Petraeus is not sounding like he supports McCain — he sounds more like he agrees that Obama has the better approach.
October 8th, 2008 at 6:11 pm