Dennis Prager: Equality ‘Is A European Value, Not An American Value’
Dennis Prager: Equality ‘Is A European Value, Not An American Value’
Right-wing radio host Dennis Prager spoke before an audience of 3,000 at Minneapolis’ Orchestra Hall, during which he attacked the “left” for constructing “a grand edifice of lies about America.” One of those lies, according to Prager, is that “equality” is an American value:
Equality, which is the primary value of the left, is a European value, not an American value. Let me tell you that right now. I know this sounds offensive to half of my fellow Americans, because they have been Europeanized in their values. The French Revolution is not the American Revolution. The French Revolution said Liberty, Fraternity, Equality. The American Revolution said Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. We have lost touch with what our distinctive American values are. We have distinctive American values. … We have a better value system, and this is being protected by one of the two parties: the Republican party.
Watch it:
It’s a good thing Prager was there to explain the ideals behind the American Revolution. Otherwise, Americans might have relied on “Europeanized” documents like the Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal…
Or if they had looked to the United States Constitution, they may have erroneously thought “equality” was an important American value:
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Thankfully, Dennis Prager is here to protect and defend American inequality.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
I’d like to know what made right-wingers think that all they have to do is say something to make it true?
October 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pm“The American Revolution said Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.”
Sadly, Prager and his ilk equate Happiness with wealth and power.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:45 pmSome animals are more equal than others.
Wanna guess which one Prager’s equal to?
(Hint: it’s not humans.)
October 29th, 2008 at 1:46 pmPrager: Equality, which is the primary value of the left, is a European value, not an American value.
– - The Republican Party of 2008 is floundering and wallowing in self-recriminations, looking to blame someone for their malaise.
Look no further than to Karl Rove.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:47 pmWell said!
America was founded on the Principle of The Divine Right of Kings.
The idea that All Men Were Created Equal is nonsense. If the monarchy could hear you today, sir. Off with you head!
October 29th, 2008 at 1:47 pmSo everything I have been taught about “all men being created equal” is not true here in the USA? Dennis is smoking something.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:47 pmPeople like this speak as if the confederacy won. Someone needs to tell them that they lost – over 150 years ago. Jeez, talk about anti-American, that would be Prager and anyone who believes such bs. That name sure sounds ‘European’.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:49 pmWhy are the neo-cons so determined to destroy the Constitution and everything it stands for?
Is it because they know that if, indeed, equality is a standard by which we run things, then there is no such thing as patronage and nepotism, and all their little sandcastles would be destroyed by the tides of change?
October 29th, 2008 at 1:50 pmKing George III was a firm advocate of equality.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:51 pmThese unamerican dickheads should be taken off the radio waves.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:52 pmNo more hate radio!
Somewhere along the line, these right-wingers became confused and started using the term “American” when they mean “Republican”.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:54 pmSo the words in the US Constitution are wrong and the Founding Fathers made a mistake. Now far back will the Republican Party so? I hope Mr. Prager let’s the Military soldiers dying for the US, know their not equal as the Republicans see it. Now what if those who aren’t equal decided not to pay taxes? The nuts are coming out of the wood work.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:54 pmWe have lost touch with what our distinctive American values are. Corruption, Bigotry, Hate, Fear, Homophobia, Cronyism, Racism, Hive Mentality, War & Death, Giving our 8 year old automatic weapons, Booze and Cigarettes is upheld by one of the two parties: the Republican party.
There, that is what he was implying.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pmWhat stunning stupidity.
Prager….what kind of name is that? Doesn’t sound Amurkin…
October 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pmI actually used to be quite a fan of Dennis Prager’s. Many years ago (”eight”, if you’re counting), he has very much a Centrist, or as he would put it, a “passionate Moderate”.
Unfortunately, I’ve had the displeasure of witnessing his descent into total Right-Wing talking-head hackery. It appears to me that he started witnessing the financial success of the Limbaugh and Hannity crowd, and completely sold himself out. It was actually a very sad thing for me to watch.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pmI have several repub acquaintances and they are clear on this issue. Most non-repubs are not equal to them. This group includes anyone who looks different from them and anyone who believes equality of freedom in America. They believe they are “entitled” to take advantage of anyone they can because they are just smarter and if that fails, they are in political control and will impose their will on others.
October 29th, 2008 at 1:58 pmOne of the posters here at TP once said about Rush Limbaugh’s salary, “You don’t get paid $400 million for telling the truth.”
October 29th, 2008 at 1:59 pmNow what was that bs about all men being created equal again?
October 29th, 2008 at 2:00 pmSEIG HEIL, HERR PRAGER!
What a nazi stooge.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pmI’m sure that Prager’s audience was relieved to know that equality isn’t an American value, and that it’s perfectly OK for them to be better than everyone else (and therefore entitled to more).
I’m also sure everybody there thinks they’re superior to others — I wonder how many of them actually are?
October 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pmWhat about that Republican socialist who said this:
October 29th, 2008 at 2:03 pm“Four score and seven years ago, our forefathers brought forth on this continent a new nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created EQUAL …”
What a maroon. “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness” are not the “American values.” They are “AMONG” the “certain inalienable rights” with which men — not Americans — are “endowed by their Creator.”
Wotta dork.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:05 pmHeh. I attended an event featuring a live debate between Stephanie Miller and Dennis Prager after the 3rd Obama-McCain debate here in southern California a couple weeks ago.
Prager pulled every stupid, flatulent cliche about the left out of his capacious ass and condescended to dump them on our heads, presumably to educate us iggerant and evil lefties about the virtues of the right.
Prager is a pompous, condescending ASS. And he can kiss mine.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:05 pmWhere do all these crazy right wingers come from?
October 29th, 2008 at 2:07 pmWe have lost touch with what our distinctive American values are. We have distinctive American values.
I’d love to hear what Prager thinks are these “distinctive American values”, which apparently are equal to “Republican values” -whatever that might mean.
Is he talking about values such as want-on invasions and occupations? Incarceration without due process? Torture, rape, and murder of prisoners? Scapegoating of minorities (religious and otherwise)? Cronyism, corruption, tax cuts for the wealthy?
If I didn’t know, I’d think Prager is actually talking about some 3rd world country -seems like a military junta type of regime is the type of government he wants…
October 29th, 2008 at 2:07 pmWhat a fascist!
Equality is a human value, a value of every religion of which I have knowledge.
Treating all members of the human race equally makes life on this planet worth living.
It sure beats the Republican “value” of I got mine, screw the rest of you.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:09 pmhmmmmmmm, I wonder, why would Prager be bringing up equality at this particular time?
It wouldn’t have to do with a certain candidate’s skin color, would it?
Or his policy to distribute the wealth to all?
Well, anyways, it’s good to realize that the brave men who died during our Revolution were NOT fighting for “all men are created equal” and “certain unalienable rights”.
Man, I think the Repugs own the copyrights for rewriting history.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:11 pmGregor Samsa,
October 29th, 2008 at 2:12 pmI think his definition of American values would include the right of any CEO to screw his employees out of their hard earned retirement.
I also think that his definition would include a big FCK YOU! to anyone not making the prerequisite $250,000.
Good grief. If I didn’t already know what kind of useless nutjobs sat in the audience applauding, I might actually be terrified.
“folks”
October 29th, 2008 at 2:13 pm.
Just who is applauding this ReichVing Nut?
.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:14 pmSince when?
October 29th, 2008 at 2:15 pmJust to show you the lemming mentality in the conservative crowd, I bet no a single one of the attendees even considered that Prager could have been talking down to them -the fact that he would consider them beneath himself, didn’t even cross their mind.
They probably though of something alongthe lines of “of course equality is not an American value. I am not equal to that guy running for president”. Ignorance is bliss indeed.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:17 pmDRxJ Says:
I think his definition of American values would include the right of any CEO to screw his employees out of their hard earned retirement.
No kidding. Because you know that CEO didn’t get there because he was born with a silver spoon, but thanks to his hard work, self-reliance, and personal responsibility.
He deserves that big, fat paycheck, the bonuses, the perks, and the executoys (planes, yatchs, etc.)
/sarc off
October 29th, 2008 at 2:19 pmSince this right-wing knucklehead brought up the French Revolution, let’s take a look back at that era. The American Revolutionaries were very closely allied with the French. Meanwhile, the colonial right-wingers were called Tories, and wanted to remain under the rule of England. During the Revolutionary War, most of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were ratted out to the British by their Tory neighbors. They and their families were captured, tortured, and their homes were burned.
After the war, these Tories were attracted to the Federalist party, which became cozy with our former British masters. The Republican-Democratic party of Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin remained closley allied to France after the French Revolution.
Of course, the Federalists, under John Adams became totalitarian, and ceased to exist, only to be reincarnated decades later as the Republican party.
Always keep in mind that the right-wing Republicans of today would have been called Tories in the late 18th century, and they would have been fighting against the American Revolution, not for it.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:19 pmThe Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen defined equality as:
The law must be the same for all, whether it protects or punishes. All citizens, being equal in its eyes, shall be equally eligible to all high offices, public positions and employments, according to their ability, and without other distinction than that of their virtues and talents.
Man, those Frenchies are so unAmerican.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:19 pmDennis Prager: continuing to give Jewish intellectuals a bad name.
This schmuck still hasn’t learned from the Ellison controversy 2 years back.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:22 pmStrange how elitists like Obama and other Democrats believe in equality. And men of the people like Republicans don’t. I guess I’m just too stupid to understand.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:23 pmAt this point they’re starting to just make shit up on the fly. No message other than “us against them”. If they dont know something just make it up, nobody will ask any questions.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:23 pmLet’s get to the core of Prager’s stupid argument:
He basically states that the Repugs are the party protecting the core values of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Life? I know of 4,000 brave men and women who are no longer in this particular category. I know of thousands more who will never LIVE a normal life again. All based on lies and misinformation by…..THE REPUGS!
Liberty? As in illegal spying? Wiretapping? Outing a CIA covert agent? Brought to you by…. THE REPUGS!
Pursuit of happiness? Are you happy? 88% of the country is NOT happy. In fact, they’re rather fearful of their money. And you can’t pursue what you can’t attain. Again, caused by (guess who?)….THE REPUGS.
So, in conclusion, if the right is the party that’s supposed to protect our values…
October 29th, 2008 at 2:23 pmTHEY SURE AS HELL FAILED!!!
These radio propagandists have become a threat to the Union. The signature of the propaganda here is that they don’t ever give you the upshot. They lead the mind to a place but don’t ever explicitly say “now do this”. They’ll say Obama “pals around with terrorists” but stop short of saying he IS a terrorist or what to do about him being a terrorist.
Ultimately though I think these radio hatemongers need to be legislated against because they are fomenting a movement of citizens who have essentially seceded from the Union. They are intentionally dividing the country against each other, now having gone so far as to literally delineate the borders of Real America and Liberal (Fake) America. This is sedition.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:27 pmEver since these guys rode the short bus to school they think that their “special education” made them smarter than everybody else and we’re the ones who don’t get it.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pmRepublicans hate America and the freedoms and her freedoms.
Republicans are “The Enemy Within”
October 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pmAnd just when I thought the stupid couldn’t hurt any more than it already does, Prager opens his mouth and spews more.
Where do they find these people?
October 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pmBe sure to click through the second link and read the article from the Minnesota Independent. Prager was not alone on the stage, but was joined by two other notable fatheads in support of some of Minnesota’s stupidest politicians.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
.
WHEN, in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s GOD entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the Causes which impel them to the Separation.
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their CREATOR, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate, that Governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present King of Great-Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.
Very Eropean of John Hancock… eh Dennis?
.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:32 pm.
Way to put Country first Dennis…
.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:35 pmI have always thought that conservatives did not think all people were equal. They were opposed to women and African-Americans voting, it was perfectly all right if 1% owned 42% of the wealth, they didn’t like other races, they didn’t like other religions or the non-religious, southerners didn’t like northerners, etc., etc.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:37 pmYikes. What an ugly, ugly political party.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:43 pmDivide and conquer , right out of the Rove playbook ! If it doesn’t win an election perhaps with the loss of Posse Commitatus through the use of a signing statement and the subsequent activation of the American Army as of Oct.1 2008 on American soil a small state of emergency can be imposed and martial law declared ?
October 29th, 2008 at 2:44 pmDonnerwetter
The Right Wing needs to be utterly crushed. Ground into the dirt with no hope of returning. I didn’t used to believe in the Fairness Doctrine but bring it back. We should crush the Right Wing and never, ever let them hold office again.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:50 pmI must have missed all the excitement the day the flying saucers landed. Was it recently? How fast do these creatures reproduce? Seems like they are everywhere now…
October 29th, 2008 at 2:51 pmA friend of mine identified the name of the country Dennis belongs to–and that’s Aynrandistan.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:56 pmSIEG HEIL!
… what a completely scary dude he is.
he’s got that nazi speech rhythm completely down.
wow.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:57 pmThis lends credence to the rumor that the most outspoken patriot on the senate floor after 911 , one Paul Wellstone was assassinated for opposing the very fascists that Norm Coleman and Michelle Bachman shared the stage with at this event !
October 29th, 2008 at 2:59 pmGod help our democracy !
We came from England..which is in..Europe??
October 29th, 2008 at 2:59 pmJust what America needs – another right-wing crazy hinting at rascism being ok along with classism and all of the other ‘isms’ that keep us divided. He’s probably one of those guys that gives ammo to the skinheads and the KKK.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:01 pm.
Dennise Prager… Who’s speaking of unamerican sentiments now?
.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:03 pmObviously Reconstruction was a mistake. I’m wondering if we’re witnessing a modern “Birth of a Nation”. Where is all this going? Because it sure a hell is going somewhere….
October 29th, 2008 at 3:08 pmPrager just loves to stir the pot. I guess Limbaugh was just getting too much attention. Here’s one of the controversies that he stirred up which managed to result in a lot of media responses, as well as involvement by the Congress at times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_U.S._Holocaust_Memorial_Council_and_the_Quran_Oath_Controversy_of_the_110th_United_States_Congress
October 29th, 2008 at 3:12 pmThe event was hosted by Mike Wiener/Savage’s local affiliate. Nuff said.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:13 pmscytherius Says:
The Right Wing needs to be utterly crushed. Ground into the dirt with no hope of returning. I didn’t used to believe in the Fairness Doctrine but bring it back. We should crush the Right Wing and never, ever let them hold office again.
Among the many ironic comments on this thread which supposedly is intended to defend Equality as an American virtue, this one wins the prize. Yeah, legislate those people out of existence – that’s Equality, okay!
October 29th, 2008 at 3:15 pmMax-1 Says:
.
.
.
October 29th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
While bit agrees with this, he doesn’t think the modern interpretation – the government will make all men equal in the areas of “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness – by insuring that the citizens get all the stuff they want – is what was intended, and bit has a simple reason for this.
The Declaration would not have been written with the intent to violate number 10, which follows, of the BigTen, the Decalogue:
The tenth commandment is sometimes summed up with the word covetousness, and since covetousness is just a couple down from “You shall not murder” and “You shall not commit adultery” and “You shall not steal,” it must be there to prevent some rather serious repercussions.
Seems to bit that BHO is teaching his supporters to violate this commandment. To bit BHO is promising to get his supporters, Democrats, the things they desire, but to which they are not entitled, which would be a violation of this commandment. If BHO is telling his supporters equality means that all people should have the same stuff, he’s teaching them to covet.
Shouldn’t BHO, as a Christian, know this?
TPers should remember that respect for private property has been a hallmark of the American experience.
bit expects that with the wholesale violation of the Decalogue in our age this one will also be violated.
Before any TPer reminds bit of the excesses of modern corporate leaders, let bit remind TPers that covetousness is not limited to those who don’t have much. In fact, there may be more covetousness in those who have much.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:17 pmLet DRxJ remind bitblt(the idjit) that this thread is about Pragers assertion that the right protects the values of America, and not about the Ten Commandments.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:24 pmDRxJ also would like to point out that Prager’s bases for argument is his belief that America does not stand for equality, and not about coveting thy wife.
RUCerious Says:
These unamerican dickheads should be taken off the radio waves.
No more hate radio!
October 29th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Haven’t you read, or were you not paying attention?
If you don’t believe in abortion, don’t get one.
If you don’t believe in gay marriage, don’t marry someone of your gender.
Therefore, if follows, consequentially,
if you don’t like what you hear on the radio, turn it off.
Will you soon be advocating for thought police?
October 29th, 2008 at 3:25 pmShouldn’t BHO, as a Christian, know this?
TPers should remember that respect for private property has been a hallmark of the American experience.
It would be easier for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
If you have 2 coats and your neighbor has none , give him one .
October 29th, 2008 at 3:28 pmJesus
Lay not up your treasures where dust and rust doth collect ,for where a man’s treasures are there is his heart also. jesus
October 29th, 2008 at 3:29 pmSeek first the kingdom of heaven than all things will be added unto you .
October 29th, 2008 at 3:32 pmwhat would it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul ?
Jesus
bitblt Says:
Therefore, if follows, consequentially,
if you don’t like what you hear on the radio, turn it off.
Will you soon be advocating for thought police?
October 29th, 2008 at 3:25 pm Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
You know where is forbidden nazi hate speech by law? In Germany. Why? Because they know first hand the evils of nazism and nazism spreaders. They had their country destroyed to ruins, a whole generation of young men dead and their territory divided.
Explain me again why spreading nazism is allowed in the USA.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:33 pmBit’s grasp on religion is tenative at best .
October 29th, 2008 at 3:33 pmfreeman Says:
.
.
.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
freeman Says:
.
.
.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
These are what bit would expect a Christian to say.
As far a bit can recall, BHO has not justified this distribution of wealth on Christian ideals, but on the idea of getting votes by promising to take from the rich and give to the poor. Believe this take from the rich and give to the poor is more a Democrat ideal than a Christian ideal. The Christian idea is convince someone to give it freely…without the take part.
An as you know, the U.S. is not a Theocracy. We know this because if the U.S. were a Theocracy, the preaching the Gospel would be the most important task.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:36 pmdenny was such a funny
guy when he was on
“the half hour comedy hour”
*
what happened?
^
keltoi, you’re a connoisseur
of comedy, your thoughts?
#
October 29th, 2008 at 3:39 pmBe well advised my friends these are the thoughts and voice of the whacked out far right. These are the people who are willing to destroy the US Constitution and enslave others who don’t see things the way they do. These are the folks that would willingly establish concentration camps and a police state to back it up. These people do not belong here and are only protected from incarceration by the vision of equality that is embodied in the US Constitution.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:41 pmEvil Spaniard Says:
Explain me again why spreading nazism is allowed in the USA.
No problem:
“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ”
So long as your speech does not incite others to violence, it is protected, at least in theory. Neat, huh?
October 29th, 2008 at 3:42 pmLook at the lillies of the field , they do not toil neither do they spin but I say unto you , Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed as one of these . jesus
October 29th, 2008 at 3:44 pmBit care to reconcile your religion with the supreme rights of private property . Care to attempt to explain how your rights as a property owner are in line with National security letters and your phone being tapped .
I get it, it’s a gag……….right ?
American values ? I thought the christian right were represented by the republican party .
?
Why do so many, self-professed, Christians stumble on the “bear false witness” part? Could it be that their entire existence is founded on a pack of lies? Perhaps they are so godawful confused that they can’t sort the shyte from shinola?
October 29th, 2008 at 3:44 pmMr. Prager, we’re going to have to ask you to relinquish the European portion of your genetic makeup – you will be free to keep what’s left over. Don’t worry, it’s just so we can be certain you’re a real American.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:44 pmMark701 Says:
——————————————————————————–
Be well advised my friends these are the thoughts and voice of the whacked out far right. These are the people who are willing to destroy the US Constitution and enslave others who don’t see things the way they do. These are the folks that would willingly establish concentration camps and a police state to back it up. These people do not belong here and are only protected from incarceration by the vision of equality that is embodied in the US Constitution.</em>
Wow! Sorry scytherius, someone just stole your irony prize!
October 29th, 2008 at 3:45 pmBit’s talking to himself in the 3rd person is probably where he gets his incredible debating skills from .
October 29th, 2008 at 3:47 pmbitblt Says:
——————————————————————————–
Believe this take from the rich and give to the poor is more a Democrat ideal than a Christian ideal. The Christian idea is convince someone to give it freely…without the take part.
First of all, “Democrat” is a noun. Stop making a fool of yourself by using it as an adjective.
Secondly, the Christian idea may be to convince someone to give it freely…without the take part. The Republican idea is to grab everything you can possibly get your greedy little paws on, regardlees of who gets hurt in the process, then to hoard your treasure, and worship those who have a bigger pile of booty.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:50 pmFreeman Says:
.
.
.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
If there was a question, or if there were questions, in this post for which you truly wanted a serious answer, could you clarify it, or them?
October 29th, 2008 at 3:51 pmbitblt Says:
——————————————————————————–
If you don’t believe in abortion, don’t get one.
If you don’t believe in gay marriage, don’t marry someone of your gender.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
These are self evident. Others are allowed to make decisions you dont like.
Therefore, if follows, consequentially,
if you don’t like what you hear on the radio, turn it off.
Will you soon be advocating for thought police?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Are YOU advocating STUPIDITY? The airwaves BELONG TO THE PEOPLE. They are OURS. Anyone making THEIR profits on OUR resource are obligated to do so performing a publilc service it is OUR decision if they are upholding that obligation. It is a democratic decision and you can weigh in but to tell us its some kind of thought police thing to even have the discussion is plain ignorant. Its telling us we have no right to the discussion if it is in the public interest in how our resource is used. I tell you what I think I will put up a liberal billboard in YOUR front yard and if YOU dont like it then you can look the other way.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:54 pmThat’s the problem, Keltoi. One can make a very strong argument that the more radical voices of the Right DO incite violence. When’s the last time a Lefty bombed an abortion clinic? Burned a cross on a lawn? Planned a nationwide killing spree based on race?
And where do these sick morons, who do such things, get their inspiration? Just take a look at the list of hosts for AM 1280. Can you find a single one who would say, “take care of yourself and don’t blame others for your failures”? Nope.
It’s all, “leftists this and leftists that and leftists are destroying the country”. I guess it wouldn’t bother me if what they said was true but, it’s a pack of divisive lies. And, for the life of me, I don’t understand why a gig on talk-radio, or FAUX, is a license for slander.
http://am1280thepatriot.townhall.com/
October 29th, 2008 at 3:55 pm2 questions
October 29th, 2008 at 3:56 pm1. Care to attempt to explain how your rights as a property owner are in line with National security letters and your phone being tapped .
2. Care to explain why Jesus was so un materialistic ?
Tithing is socialism.
October 29th, 2008 at 3:56 pmChristian religions have redistributed more wealth than all governments combined. Fight the socialism of the church!
October 29th, 2008 at 4:00 pmPrager talking about values – hahahahahahah.
Equality is a “european value” as if that is a pejorative.
Our Constitution and Declaration of Independence as well as the Pledge of Allegiance all deal with equality — “all men are created equal” (not just American Republicans) “one nation indivisible” (except when the Republicans can advocate divisiveness for their own purposes).
Someone needs to call these demagogues out for their anti-American subversive proprganda.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:01 pmpete Says
Tithing is socialism.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:01 pm……………………………
Amen brother and hallelujah .Maybe someday people like bit will realize that spirituality is the life of religion when the dogma is dropped and the message is finally understood.
Love is not a word , and the true name of god is unpronouncable.
bitblt Says:
Believe this take from the rich and give to the poor is more a Democrat ideal than a Christian ideal. The Christian idea is convince someone to give it freely…without the take part.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bit is a MORON who doesnt know his bible. What else can I expect from someone so stupid he doesnt even know the NAME of the largest political party in the United States? Like Jeremiah 5
28′They are (AU)fat, they are sleek,
They also [b]excel in deeds of wickedness;
They do not plead the cause,
The cause of the (AV)orphan, that they may prosper;
And they do not defend the rights of the poor.
29′(AW)Shall I not punish these people?’ declares the LORD,
‘On a nation such as this
Shall I not avenge Myself?’
Notice God saying should he not avenge himself on a nation that does not defend the rights of the poor. The VERY kind of nation Bit would make America. What a tool
October 29th, 2008 at 4:02 pmpete Says:
That’s the problem, Keltoi. One can make a very strong argument that the more radical voices of the Right DO incite violence.em>
If they break a law, they should be punished. If the argument is so strong that they are engaging in hate speech, there are surely liberal prosecuters in this country who would pursue charges. Even the actual American Nazi party has first amendment rights, let alone right wing talk radio hosts who merely get hit with the Nazi patina by their Left wing opponents.
Fun discussion, but I gotta go. Have a good one.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:03 pmThe republican party seems to have a monopoly on the exterior (dead)part of religion .
October 29th, 2008 at 4:05 pmDemocrats are on the whole , it would seem drawn to it’s spirit , even those which profess atheism .
Religion is a finger pointing at the moon ,
people look at the finer and say ….what a beautiful moon .
Zen parable
Religion is a finger pointing at the moon ,
October 29th, 2008 at 4:05 pmpeople look at the finger and say ….what a beautiful moon .
Zen parable
Nice way to slip a punch, Keltoi. On the offhand chance you return to this thread, how is it not slander for Reichwhiners to claim that Sen. Obama supports infanticide? Every last one who spread that awful lie should be facing a court date and, probably, be suspended until the cases are adjudicated. But? It ain’t gonna happen.
Why? Because the legion of “lefty lawyers” is a myth. The lawyers on retainer by the big telecoms, however, are very real and very well paid. And they have powerful friends in high places.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:11 pmIf ANYBODY in the whole USofA deserves a COck-Punt at the earliest opportunity, it is that reeking bag of shit, Dennis Prager…I wish to hell that these shitwhistles who so badly misunderstand the principles of the foundation of the ountry would just….die…
October 29th, 2008 at 4:17 pmIsn’t this the same idiot who started the ruckus about a new congressman swearing in on the Koran. He then had to be informed that no such requirement exists for swearing, and in fact no Bible is used for swearing in. His lack of knowledge of the US Constitution is profound and frightening. Only 7 more days until these idiots get the trouncing they so rightly have earned.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:17 pmYo bitblt:
October 29th, 2008 at 4:19 pmWhat up? I am feeling sort of lazy today. Wanna bring me up to speed as to how you found a way to weasel abortion into this conversation? I don’t really know if you did or not but I am willing to bet. So an interest in a shared common good is a democratic idea and not a christian one I see. Okay, glad to know as I knew I was not ment to be a christian
and the true name of god is unpronouncable.
and you do not know what you cannot say…
October 29th, 2008 at 4:20 pmAnd with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all.
For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales
and lay them at the apostles’ feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need.
bltblt, why do you hate the Bible? Oh I forgot! There is a liberal bias to Acts 4:33-35…
October 29th, 2008 at 4:21 pmDoe any of you REALLY think that an Obama victory is going to make any difference to the Phuquetard Right?
An Obama win will be like golden manna falling from the heavens upon Rupert Murdoch, Roger Ailes, Falafel Bill, Handjob, Feckless, and the rest…They’re going to make PILES of money, grow HUGE audiences, and lead the fascist restoration in ‘12…
Count on it…sorry to say,..
October 29th, 2008 at 4:23 pmKeltoi Says:
If they break a law, they should be punished. If the argument is so strong that they are engaging in hate speech, there are surely liberal prosecuters in this country who would pursue charges. Even the actual American Nazi party has first amendment rights, let alone right wing talk radio hosts who merely get hit with the Nazi patina by their Left wing opponents.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Exactly WHAT are you talking about? Hate speech is not against the law in the US. Hatecrimes are enhancements added to other crimes. So no prosecuters of ANY KIND would go after someone for what they say. Are you really snivelling about how badly the poor rightwing screechmonkeys are treated? I guess its FINE for the Oxymoron to call women Feminazis or Ann Coulter to say we should poison a sitting Supreme Court justice and beat liberals with baseball bats or the Savage Weinerdog to call us brownshirts and basically anyone he disagrees with Nazis but WE are somehow obligated to treat THEM with respect. Your post was idiotic. I assume you know that.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:23 pmIt seems to me the Jesu-tards make distinctions between the “bible” which is the so-called Old Testament, and the Scriptures, or the so-called “New Testament,” and have got a compact or something by which they declare that Jesus was a nice guy, and a helluva fella, but He was no GOD, ya know?
October 29th, 2008 at 4:26 pmI can’t think of a better example of the basic un-American nature of this GOP at the begining of the 21st century. Goopers, you’re time in the wilderness is long overdue. Prager, you’re just a sad sack of sh*t, and your time is over.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:29 pmSpeaking of Zen.
Son to Father: “What would you like me to be when I grow up”?
Father to Son” “Honest”.
Paraphrased (it’s been about twenty years) from Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:30 pmI’m taking bets on when (not if) this story appears:
” says, ‘If Obama wins, we’re all gonna die!’”
October 29th, 2008 at 4:46 pmI’m taking bets on when (not if) this story appears:
”{Insert republican name here} says, ‘If Obama wins, we’re all gonna die!’”
October 29th, 2008 at 4:48 pmI always enjoy your sunny outlook. You must be such a happy person.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:52 pmHow come our media never starts stories about these kooks with the obligatory “radical cleric _________ ? Does Al Sadr have a copyright on that shit or what? Damn these dudes are freaks…
October 29th, 2008 at 4:54 pmWe have distinctive American values. …
And they have been defined and promoted by the conservatives and Republicans as:
. the suppression of dissenting opinion;
. the systematic dismantling of government regulations designed to protect all and maintain a level playing field;
. the persistent ridicule of anyone with intelligence and education;
. the continual “trust-us-and-ask-no-questions” mantra of the administration
. the installation of the right wing agenda at every level of the judicial and executive branches of government;
. the belief that those who make the laws are above them and exempt from their enforcement;
. the condemnation of anyone and everyone who goes up against those in positions of power;
. the politicization of the military forces for the gain and benefit of the administration;
. the perpetuation of lies and innuendo to install confusion and cast doubt amongst the citizens and electorate;
. the placing of blame of every inconvenience on the Democrats/Hollywood/and your-name-goes-here;
. and no doubt there are many more.
Mr. Pragar should study the root cause of the French Revolution and realize that a continuation of this path established but the Republicans and conservative is likely to bring about an American version of the same.
To the Bastille and off with their heads! Vote the bastards out!
October 29th, 2008 at 4:59 pmpete Says:
Nice way to slip a punch, Keltoi. On the offhand chance you return to this thread, how is it not slander for Reichwhiners to claim that Sen. Obama supports infanticide? Every last one who spread that awful lie should be facing a court date and, probably, be suspended until the cases are adjudicated. But? It ain’t gonna happen.
Why? Because the legion of “lefty lawyers” is a myth. The lawyers on retainer by the big telecoms, however, are very real and very well paid. And they have powerful friends in high places.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Apparently there are those who believe BHO supports infanticide.
Caution: This is one of Dr. Dobson’s websites.
http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000007034.cfm
Obama Blocked Born Alive Infant Protection Act
by Jill Stanek, guest reporter
In bit’s opinion Christians don’t think this way.
As to your post…
EugeneDebs Says:
.
.
.
October 29th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Surely you read the beginning of Jeremiah 5 which succinctly summarizes the chapter?
bit thinks BHO’s and EugeneDebs’ interest in justice and truth only extends to the ease with which they can manipulated these ideals.
You don’t believe anything you read in scripture, do you EugeneDebs?
October 29th, 2008 at 5:03 pmFred, you misunderestimate me. Really…
I’m a very happy dude, most of the time. Jolly, even. Smiling, laughing, joking around. I’m great company. A funny guy.
I’m just not distracted or deluded by the smoke-blowing happy talk of hope, change, and all the rest of the transparent crapola that gets spread around as political discourse by star-struck sycophants of quite ordinary pols…
October 29th, 2008 at 5:04 pmThis is why you are considered a joke here….that and your username.
October 29th, 2008 at 5:05 pmAbortion.
Safe, legal, on demand, no questions asked…
That’s the only acceptable solution.
You hate abortions, then don’t have one…
Chuy…
October 29th, 2008 at 5:06 pmYour condecention begs to differ.
October 29th, 2008 at 5:07 pmCondescension, fred…
He said condescendingly
October 29th, 2008 at 5:09 pmYou don’t believe anything you read in scripture, do you EugeneDebs?
October 29th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Me? I beleive every “an,” every “one,” every “the,” every “there.”
the rest of it is mythological fantasy and delusion…
October 29th, 2008 at 5:09 pmKeltoi: “So long as your speech does not incite others to violence, it is protected, at least in theory. Neat, huh?”
My, my, how characteristically obtuse. I think the point was that spreading “nazism” IS, almost by definition, an incitement to violence. After all, both plots we have heard about in the media to kill Barak Obama involved men involved in the neo-nazi “movement” here in our country. What’s the difference between neo-nazis and al Qaeda?
As far as the constitutional enumeration of equality, that’s been decided a century before last with the 14th. If the Founders didn’t want us altering the constitution with amendments, whey wouldn’t have put the first ten in amendment form. The only thing we have to fix about the 14th is the absurd contention that corporations deserve protection under it.
October 29th, 2008 at 5:10 pmThe only thing we have to fix about the 14th is the absurd contention that corporations deserve protection under it.
that’s not in the 14th Amendment…
It is a head-note scribbled atop a late-19th Century decision, SOuther Pacific vs County of Santa Clara, iirc…
Corporate “citizenship” appears NOWHERE in the founding documents of the Nation…
The revolution was fought, in large measure, to throw off the oppressive yoke of royal corporations…
October 29th, 2008 at 5:14 pmbitblt Says:
Well bit you are an IGNORANT piece of garbage arent you? First there are people who BELIEVE the world is flat that doesnt mean anyone with the sense God gave a piece of lint doesnt understand they are nutbags. I Do believe in scripture you ignorant whackdoodle moron. YOU apparantly dont. It isnt manipulating ANYONE to read the plain langauge of that scripture. YOU only care about IGNORING any scripture that doesnt conform to your rightwing delusions and they are LEGION. Your arrogance is stupendous. I mean almost as astonishing as your ignorance. Did you think that YOUR intepretations of scripture were somehow the ONLY ones that are legit? I have seen how stupid you are. Its possible that you THOUGHT God put YOU on a pedestal to tell us mere mortals what scripture means but Jeremiah 5 is pretty clearcut. Without twisting the words beyond any meaning it is simply impossible to evade the FACT that God is asking why he would not punish a nation that acts in the EXACT way YOU would have America act. You are ignorant, you are selfish and you are disgusting. The thing is those are your best features. I pity anyone who has to even be in your putrid presence
October 29th, 2008 at 5:16 pmEugeneDebs Says:
.
.
.
October 29th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
bit understands that everyone likes to do what they do best! Thanks for the demonstration.
October 29th, 2008 at 5:23 pmbitblt Says:
Bit doesnt understand ANYTHING he is a moron. Thanks for the demonstration. You cant even BEGIN to deny the point I made. YOU would make America into the kind of nation that God CLEARLY says he should punish. Its that simple. YOU can dance, dodge and pretend this is something other than what it CLEARLY is all you want. You seem to do that because you are MORE concerned with your rightwing delusions than the bible. Its ok with me. Everyone here can see you are an idiot and a hypocrite and that you wouldnt know justice if it bit your sack.
October 29th, 2008 at 5:30 pmBit, you ignorant tit, support for infanticide would be a stated position that says, “I support infanticide”. Lacking such a statement, any claims that I do, in fact, support infanticide are slanderous. It’s really not a very complicated concept.
BTW, the provision you freaks are so fond of espousing is already covered under existing law. So? One can only assume that all the screeching is just idiotic, partisan, blatantly dishonest, hate-mongering.
October 29th, 2008 at 5:31 pmThe concept of Democracy is owed to the Athenians.
The republican bicameral system is owed to the Romans.
The Bill of Rights (including habeas corpus) is derived from the Magna Charta.
The structure and application of the legal system derives from a thousand years of English Common Law.
The combination and importantly the codification of all the above was unique to America at the time,but that’s it.
And the Republicans have nearly destroyed all these noble and practical institutions in just a decade.
October 29th, 2008 at 5:39 pmIf the “equality” being expressed here is material equality then there can be no “liberty” since this material equality would have to be achieved through force. So, Prager, the equality being spoken of here is equality with respect to the law. The law applies equally to everyone. This is the same “equality” being expressed in “All men are created equal.”
October 29th, 2008 at 5:46 pmAnd your political discourse is that there is no point? How does that make you a superior debater? Are you really clairvoiant? Do you know what will happen tommorrow?
Will you admit you might have been wrong when we don’t remain the warring nation that we are under the bush administration.
or if civil rights in America start to be strengthened again…..will you admit it?
I could go on but what is the point. I will admit it when the time comes if I am wrong but I see no point in writing it before it happens.
I also strongly believe that these changes are coming. I have hope.
transparent crapola…..that’s your superior debating skill?
October 29th, 2008 at 5:58 pmHey, Bit – the Bible *is* a load of fabricated, drug-induced, unadulterated CRAP.
October 29th, 2008 at 6:46 pmAnd 2000 year old CRAP, at that.
October 29th, 2008 at 6:47 pmYo bitblt,
October 29th, 2008 at 6:56 pmdbadass wonders why he always misses the amusing yet odd posts of bitblt. dbadass finds them sort of weird yet intriquing? dbadass wonders just what the hell bitblt is on…
dbadass Says:
Yo bitblt,
dbadass wonders why he always misses the amusing yet odd posts of bitblt. dbadass finds them sort of weird yet intriquing? dbadass wonders just what the hell bitblt is on…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bitbit is an idiot. He crawls in here spewing his false piety and psuedoreligious reasons why its SO moral to be a selfish goon then when you slap him upside the head with facts or logic he shifts to this passive-aggressive attack about what is wrong with YOU never coming within MILES of addressing the argument. I figure mostly because he is too stupid to even try
October 29th, 2008 at 7:07 pmwhy’s my comment at #128 “awaiting moderation?”
Just out of curiosity? Too condescending?
October 29th, 2008 at 8:30 pmDid you keyboard the word that must not be keyboarded?
October 29th, 2008 at 8:38 pmoh I forgot to add tits ass nutsack cumshot asslick
October 29th, 2008 at 8:39 pmdb, i’m beginning to think ‘fred’ is a sort of pet in these parts, kind of a mascot, somebody’s favorite, not very bright nephew, mebbe…
October 29th, 2008 at 10:27 pmdb look at his last reply to me…at 126
mine at 128 (and 127, too) was a reply to that…
and i dint use the forbidden monosyllable…i have learned that lesson many a hard time…sometimes i have forgotten and rued my forgetfulness…mebbe i can smuggle it in this way?
October 29th, 2008 at 10:30 pmI think Prager the Pious was referring to another conservative lie: that liberals demand equality of outcome in addition to equality of opportunity.
October 29th, 2008 at 10:43 pm#65 bitblt,
Keep your christofascist god off our country.
If bitblt was intelligent, bitblt would notice that the word “CREATOR” was deliberately used our Founders to infer beliefs of ALL origins, NOT JUST CHRISTIAN! Thus, EQUALITY to ALL belief systems. So your christofascist values, according to our Founders, have no ruling upon me or how I choose to live my life, especially when your christofascist belief system infringes upon MY INALIENABLE RIGHT to LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS… K?
Now, if you wish to disagree with the Founders of America, then you are free to go found your own country. Try the AIP, I hear they need new members… However, to attempt to impress your christofascist values upon Americans is… well… antithetical to what America was founded upon.
Simply put,
NO AMERICAN SHOULD HAVE TO BE MEASURED BY ANY RELIGIOUS COMMANDMENTS…
… IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A THEOCRACY, GO LIVE IN IRAN!!!
WHY DOES bitblt HATE AMERICAN VALUES?
Now, however if you wish to measure yourself to your christofascist values, where did Christ say we have to follow His Father’s Ten Commandments? I thought Christ was asked which commandment was the most important… NO? What then, did Christ say?
Sorry bitblt, you drank the tang. You judge and conditionally love. You get to deal with God on that one… Have fun arguing your defense!!!
.
October 30th, 2008 at 1:00 amWell conservatives do believe in inequality and always come up with reasons to oppress those whom they oppress. So Prager was brutally honest when he said that equality was not a value they shared. Hell, they would bring back slavery if they could.
October 30th, 2008 at 1:17 am.
bitblt,
Since the modern Bible was translated by a Europeans, does that mean you follow European values, too?
.
October 30th, 2008 at 1:28 amI assume everyone knows that Dennis Prager is a Zionist crackpot?
Maybe not. In case you didn’t, you do now. Did you know that Zionists believe that the goyim (all non-Jews) should serve them? The inequality that he is advocating has nothing to do with making more of yourself than another person, but to do with the assumed superiority of the Jews. They want you to accept their notion that you have masters. Them.
But don’t believe me. Google “Zionist philosophy.” It helps if you read their stuff with a stiff drink.
October 30th, 2008 at 2:12 amUh,
“All men are created equal”
Except those that are two thirds a man?
There are those that are blessed by God monetarily because they are royalty and thou shalt not question their words?
Oh boy………………
Digging a hole and digging it deep.
Its going to be expensive for the conservative wealthy donors to keep these neo cons on air for 8 years with poor ratings and poor advertising on their shows stations.
October 30th, 2008 at 3:51 amMax-1 Says:
.
.
.
October 30th, 2008 at 1:00 am
If bitblt was intelligent, bitblt would notice that the word “CREATOR” was deliberately used our Founders to infer beliefs of ALL origins, NOT JUST CHRISTIAN! Thus, EQUALITY to ALL belief systems. So your christofascist values, according to our Founders, have no ruling upon me or how I choose to live my life, especially when your christofascist belief system infringes upon MY INALIENABLE RIGHT to LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS… K?
bit is sorry that Max-1’s understanding of U.S. religious heritage is so devoid of meaning.
Do you have any support for your assertion?
Do you have any references to any writing from any founder that remotely suggests that “…equality to ALL belief systems,” is what was meant in the Declaration of Independence?
In fact what is the earliest reference you can find in the U.S. that “…equality to ALL belief systems” is what was intended by the founders or by the document from which you quote?.
You’re using twentieth-first century understanding to read an eighteenth century work, and bit suspects that it’s an understanding that believes the Constitution was written to allow licentiousness.
bit thinks the word Creator is used because this is how Christ referred to God in Matthew 19. Creator is a good word because it addresses the relationship people have to God. Simply put the title Creator recognizes that God is the Creator of all we know. bit believes this is how Christ used the word and how the founders used the word.
The following from the will of John Dickinson illustrates what bit said:
This quote is from
http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=78
This web page has numerous quotes from founders about their Christianity.
Christianity has made the U.S. way of life work up to this point. If you have something better, something that will make the U.S. work better or hold it together or insure its future, just say what it is.
From the link above:
October 30th, 2008 at 10:11 am
bitblt Says:
Bit is wrong, Bit is a moron. The word CREATOR is the way Deists refer to God. Benjamin Rush? John Dickenson?
Lets hear from some of the founding fathers we have actually HEARD OF.
How about John Adams?
“We should begin by setting conscience free. When all men of all religions … shall enjoy equal liberty, property, and an equal chance for honors and power … we may expect that improvements will be made in the human character and the state of society.” (John Adams)
“The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses….” (John Adams, 1787)
“…Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.” (ibid)
Thomas Paine
“As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensable duty of government to protect all conscientious protesters thereof, and I know of no other business government has to do therewith.” (Thomas Paine, the Rights of Man)
“All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish [Muslim], appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise; they have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime. He takes up the profession of a priest for the sake of gain, and in order to qualify himself for that trade he begins with a perjury. Can we conceive anything more destructive to morality than this?” (Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason)
Every man “ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.” – George Washington (Letter to the United Baptist Churches in Virginia in May, 1789)
“Question with boldness even the existence of a god.” – Thomas Jefferson (letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787)
“Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error
all over the earth.” – Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)
“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.” – James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)
“As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” – (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 – signed by President John Adams.)
Not only is bit a moron bit NEVER knows what he is talking about
October 31st, 2008 at 7:36 pmPaine, who probably doesn’t qualify as a Founding father, but as the Father of the American Revolution because of his writing, was not liked or admired by all of his contemporaries.
Early Americans address their president and their understanding of religion in the new nation…
Letter from the Danbury Baptists:
The address of the Danbury Baptist Association in the State of Connecticut, assembled October 7, 1801.
To Thomas Jefferson, Esq., President of the United States of America
Sir,
Among the many millions in America and Europe who rejoice in your election to office, we embrace the first opportunity which we have enjoyed in our collective capacity, since your inauguration , to express our great satisfaction in your appointment to the Chief Magistracy in the Unite States. And though the mode of expression may be less courtly and pompous than what many others clothe their addresses with, we beg you, sir, to believe, that none is more sincere.
Our sentiments are uniformly on the side of religious liberty: that Religion is at all times and places a matter between God and individuals, that no man ought to suffer in name, person, or effects on account of his religious opinions, [and] that the legitimate power of civil government extends no further than to punish the man who works ill to his neighbor. But sir, our constitution of government is not specific. Our ancient charter, together with the laws made coincident therewith, were adapted as the basis of our government at the time of our revolution. And such has been our laws and usages, and such still are, [so] that Religion is considered as the first object of Legislation, and therefore what religious privileges we enjoy (as a minor part of the State) we enjoy as favors granted, and not as inalienable rights. And these favors we receive at the expense of such degrading acknowledgments, as are inconsistent with the rights of freemen. It is not to be wondered at therefore, if those who seek after power and gain, under the pretense of government and Religion, should reproach their fellow men, [or] should reproach their Chief Magistrate, as an enemy of religion, law, and good order, because he will not, dares not, assume the prerogative of Jehovah and make laws to govern the Kingdom of Christ.
Sir, we are sensible that the President of the United States is not the National Legislator and also sensible that the national government cannot destroy the laws of each State, but our hopes are strong that the sentiment of our beloved President, which have had such genial effect already, like the radiant beams of the sun, will shine and prevail through all these States–and all the world–until hierarchy and tyranny be destroyed from the earth. Sir, when we reflect on your past services, and see a glow of philanthropy and goodwill shining forth in a course of more than thirty years, we have reason to believe that America’s God has raised you up to fill the Chair of State out of that goodwill which he bears to the millions which you preside over. May God strengthen you for the arduous task which providence and the voice of the people have called you–to sustain and support you and your Administration against all the predetermined opposition of those who wish to rise to wealth and importance on the poverty and subjection of the people.
And may the Lord preserve you safe from every evil and bring you at last to his Heavenly Kingdom through Jesus Christ our Glorious Mediator.
Signed in behalf of the Association,
Neh,h Dodge }
Eph’m Robbins } The Committee
Stephen S. Nelson }
Letter of Oct. 7, 1801 from Danbury (CT) Baptist Assoc. to Thomas Jefferson,
Thomas Jefferson Papers, Manuscript Division,
Library of Congress, Wash. D.C.
Many scholars count up to 250 individuals as founding fathers. These include signers of the declaration and the constitution, supreme court justices, state governors, and others.
If one were to reference the quotes of those who have remarked that there would not be a U.S. without the influence of Christianity, the remarks on the pro side would be overwhelming.
For instance, ( bit is working from memory here ) Newsweek magazine Dec 1984 p66 in an article entitled, or an article about, the “Origins of American Constitutionalism” says that in 15,000 documents written by the founders, the Bible is the most commonly references document.
TP readers might appreciate this work:
Donald S. Lutz, Colonial Origins of the American Constitution: A Documentary History [1998]
http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=694&Itemid=27
This is collection of government documents from early American, for the 1600’s, which display the thought and understanding of our predecessors. Throughout these documents uprightness – Christian religion – and commonality of experience are emphasized over and over.
TPers might note the laws against buggery and Catholic priests ( search the .pdf with bishop).
November 3rd, 2008 at 11:38 amYes, All men are created equal. All babies are pure and innocent and wonderful.
December 5th, 2008 at 8:55 pmThe thing is, when we reach adulthood (you “progressives” don’t seem to have reached that stage yet) we are only what we make of ourselves. It is up to each of us to take responsibility for our lives. Live it however you want, but people who put fun and feelings over hard work and character usually don’t make it very far, and it’s not up to a big bureaucratic government to give everyone who fails a handout. If well off people want to do something to help, that’s fine, but the state getting involved to make sure “everything is equal” is nothing but trampling our rights. And I’m not talking about human rights, which are inherent and recognized almost universally by humanity.
Geniuses, the load of you