I see.

Whatever.

If that was the only verse then your unique interpretation might make some sense, but the very next verse totally contradicts you:

Matthew 6:5… And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

In any event, if you want to say “Merry Christmas” to people then by all means go for it, but you and Bill O’Reilly shouldn’t be offended if others fail to accommodate you by saying “Merry Christmas” instead of “Happy Holidays,” in my opinion.

November 8th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
_______

My interpretation is hardly unique. Check a few commentaries. Jesus was speaking to those who are tempted to do things for their own glory. Do you really think, in verses 3-4, Jesus meant to never give in public? Did he mean we are to ignore anyone we see in need because we can’t give in public? You have to take scripture in context.

I’m not the least bit offended whether people say Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, have a nice day or nothing at all. The complaints against “Happy Holidays” began with reports that businesses were telling employees not to say Merry Christmas as they were raking in Christmas shopping dollars. If customers are offended by “Merry Christmas,” are they not also offended by all the Christmas decorations and Christmas sales? Where is the retailers’ concern in that case? As usual, it’s the hypocrisy that is the root of the problem.

Mia Kulper Says:
It appears that Jesus wants us to pray in private.
Matthew 6:5: And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

upright left Says:
The key to the verse you quoted is “…that they may be seen by others.” Jesus was speaking against those who prayed publicly for appearance sake. It isn’t an admonition against public prayer, only hypocritical public prayer.

If that was the only verse then your unique interpretation might make some sense, but the very next verse totally contradicts you:

Matthew 6:5… And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

In any event, if you want to say “Merry Christmas” to people then by all means go for it, but you and Bill O’Reilly shouldn’t be offended if others fail to accommodate you by saying “Merry Christmas” instead of “Happy Holidays,” in my opinion.

You’re entitled to your opinion on that but my point of that sentence is that talk is cheap and saying ‘Merry Christmas’ instead of ‘Happy Holidays’ doesn’t actually accomplish anything to help those less fortunate than ourselves. Insisting, as Bill O’Reilly does, that retailers bid a ‘Merry Christmas’ to holiday shoppers is pointless and hollow.

upright left Says:

It doesn’t appear that Jesus wants us to hide away our faith in Him:
“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:32

It appears that Jesus wants us to pray in private.
Matthew 6:5:
And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
November 8th, 2008 at 7:38 am

I believe the point of wanting Merry Christmas as opposed to Happy Holidays is that retailers depend upon a Christian holiday to carry their business, but some don’t want to acknowledge Christianity. That is a separate issue from doing things to help others. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

The key to the verse you quoted is “…that they may be seen by others.” Jesus was speaking against those who prayed publicly for appearance sake. It isn’t an admonition against public prayer, only hypocritical public prayer.

Mia Kulper, Your poem makes some good points about the commercialization of Christmas. There are a couple of problems, though.

“So for this “War on Christmas,” don’t shy from the fight
Tell them “talk’s cheap, just DO what is right.”

Jesus’ idea of right differs somewhat from the liberal idea of right.

You’re entitled to your opinion on that but my point of that sentence is that talk is cheap and saying ‘Merry Christmas’ instead of ‘Happy Holidays’ doesn’t actually accomplish anything to help those less fortunate than ourselves. Insisting, as Bill O’Reilly does, that retailers bid a ‘Merry Christmas’ to holiday shoppers is pointless and hollow.

upright left Says:

“Cause He belongs in our hearts, not up on some wall.
Not stamped upon money, or in City Hall.”

“He knows us by deeds, not by prayers that we shout.
What we DO unto others, is what it’s about.”

It doesn’t appear that Jesus wants us to hide away our faith in Him:

“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:32

It appears that Jesus wants us to pray in private.

Matthew 6:5:
And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

Aside of that, your point is taken.

And thanks for all the KUDOS from everyone! Feel free to share it with your favorite wingnut.

Your poem makes some good points about the commercialization of Christmas. There are a couple of problems, though.

“So for this “War on Christmas,” don’t shy from the fight
Tell them “talk’s cheap, just DO what is right.”

Jesus’ idea of right differs somewhat from the liberal idea of right.

“Cause He belongs in our hearts, not up on some wall.
Not stamped upon money, or in City Hall.”

“He knows us by deeds, not by prayers that we shout.
What we DO unto others, is what it’s about.”

It doesn’t appear that Jesus wants us to hide away our faith in Him:

“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:32

My views are socially moderate/conservative and fiscally moderate. If that’s odd, so be it.

i copied and pasted that short clip @28 from the google search page…
i didn’t go to the site to read the rest of the reference…

it doesn’t even matter – MY point was that the fleur de lis is a FRENCH symbol, and i found it odd that billo would hence use it…
given his aversion to everything french… he touts… at times…
…

fantastic poem, Mia Kulper!

upright left Says:

So sorry about the wiki reference in my post, but it was necessary since I responded to Katy’s citation of it. Wiki and I aren’t the only ones aware of the religious connection with the symbol. Google it and you’ll find others. But I suppose the fact that some don’t recognize it is reason enough that no one should use it. I made no argument. I simply pointed out that there is a religious connection contrary to several previous posts.

Sounded to me like an argument. The point I made was hardly “the fact that some don’t recognize it is reason enough that no one should use it.” Odd that your original post depended on reading comprehension of a certain level, yet you seem unwilling to make the effort in return.

In any case, allow me to clarify, so you’ll have a better chance of “catching my drift”: the fact that the symbol is not widely recognized as a religious one is reason enough to question its inclusion in this strange design. Sure, one can research it and discover that the French monarchy used it to reflect its own religious ties, or one can rely on one’s own sophisticated vocabulary of religious iconography, as you obviously do, but when serving a general audience (or in the case of the War on Christmas, a decidedly downscale audience) one might be well advised to deliver information as snappily and immediately as possible. If research is required, that tends to limit the audience it’s going to reach.

Odd positions? Well, you aren’t the first person here to have difficulty understanding how I can possibly agree with Dems on some issues and Repubs on others.

Who said I had “difficulty understanding how I can possibly agree with Dems on some issues and Repubs on others”? I said “many of the odd positions you choose”. Not sure where you drew your conclusion from, out of that. Look at it this way, uptighty: the issues on which ou agree with “Repubs” are generally the ones I find odd, and that I attribute to your curious logical process.

Make more sense now?

OutSTANDING

Also being a Christian, and a colonial America buff, I recognize it as the symbol for the French monarchy, prominently displayed on the battle flag of French troops in America in the 18th century. Not to mention the helmets of the aforementioned Saints.

Your argument seems to be that, since wikipedia and you both note secondary religious connotations for the symbol, then it makes perfect sense to use it as the sole graphical element on a bumper sticker celebrating the War on Christmas.

If that’s the kind of argument that makes sense to you, it’s no wonder you choose so many of the odd positions you espouse here.

November 7th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
______

So sorry about the wiki reference in my post, but it was necessary since I responded to Katy’s citation of it. Wiki and I aren’t the only ones aware of the religious connection with the symbol. Google it and you’ll find others. But I suppose the fact that some don’t recognize it is reason enough that no one should use it. I made no argument. I simply pointed out that there is a religious connection contrary to several previous posts.

Odd positions? Well, you aren’t the first person here to have difficulty understanding how I can possibly agree with Dems on some issues and Repubs on others.

http://thelieshavenotimproved.blogspot.com/

I have copied your poem, Mia, and will post it on the Zoo closer to Christmas — giving you proper credit, and linking to this thread.

OUTSTANDING!

So I wrote one.

Like to hear it? Here it goes:

‘Twas the Month Before X-Box and all through the land,
the fake “War on Christmas” goes according to plan.

It’s always the same, no matter the facts.
Fake Christians pretend that they’re under attack!!!1!

Say “Merry Christmas” they shriek, or we’ll boycott your stores.
We’ll go on Fox News and call you all whores!

We’ll go on talk radio and create such a clatter,
to distract and divide you so nothing else matters.

And they conquer and divide us in all sorts of ways,
so that no one will notice how well their crime pays.

They run up our debts, with deficits galore.
While they cut their own taxes and stomp on our poor.

They preach Peace On Earth, and Good Will Towards Man.
But they dream of war profits, and invading Iran.

And with war in Iraq, and more dead every day,
their biggest concern is whether you’re gay.

But the whole War On Christmas is just this month’s ploy,
to profit from hate as Sears profits from toys.

And if Jesus was born in this day and age,
He’d die of starvation, on minimum wage.

But if He survived and grew to a man,
they’d call Him liberal and toss His Book in the can.

They’d call Him a commie, a pinko and worse,
then slap both His cheeks and send Him off with a curse.

They’d sue Him in court to trademark His name,
and sell Him on Wall Street for money and fame.

So for this “War on Christmas,” don’t shy from the fight
Tell them “talk’s cheap, just DO what is right.”

‘Cause He belongs in our hearts, not up on some wall.
Not stamped upon money, or in City Hall.

He knows us by deeds, not by prayers that we shout.
What we DO unto others, is what it’s about.

upright left Says:

I’m not sure what most people think when they see it. Being a Christian, I recognize that it is used as a religious symbol. Football fans may think of the “Saints”. Nothing religious there. Did you miss the reference to the Trinity and the Virgin Mary in the quote? And a connection between Gabriel and Jesus? Ridiculous! ;)

Also being a Christian, and a colonial America buff, I recognize it as the symbol for the French monarchy, prominently displayed on the battle flag of French troops in America in the 18th century. Not to mention the helmets of the aforementioned Saints.

Your argument seems to be that, since wikipedia and you both note secondary religious connotations for the symbol, then it makes perfect sense to use it as the sole graphical element on a bumper sticker celebrating the War on Christmas.

If that’s the kind of argument that makes sense to you, it’s no wonder you choose so many of the odd positions you espouse here.