GOP congressman: Obama wants to go ‘down the road’ of Hitler.
GOP congressman: Obama wants to go ‘down the road’ of Hitler.
In July, Barack Obama proposed a “civilian national security force,” an idea backed by President Bush and intended to expand AmeriCorps and other national service programs. But today in an interview with the AP, Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA) compared the idea to a Gestapo-like force:
“That’s exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it’s exactly what the Soviet Union did,” Broun said. “When he’s proposing to have a national security force that’s answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he’s showing me signs of being Marxist.”
“We can’t be lulled into complacency,” Broun said. “You have to remember that Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic Germany. I’m not comparing him to Adolf Hitler. What I’m saying is there is the potential of going down that road.“
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“We can’t be lulled into complacency,” Broun said. “You have to remember that Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic Germany. I’m not comparing him to Adolf Hitler.
Um, yes, you are. That’s how the English language works.
You don’t get to say that you’re not saying what the words you choose mean when placed in the order you’ve chosen to place them.
November 11th, 2008 at 3:47 pmHOW are there SO many morons in this country that this idiot can hold public office?
On the other hand, hope he keeps it up. It’s a good thing that the GOP looks wild-eyed and insane.
November 11th, 2008 at 3:49 pm“We can’t be lulled into complacency,” Broun said. “You have to remember that Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic Germany. I’m not comparing him to Adolf Hitler. What I’m saying is there is the potential of going down that road.“
Uh bush was elected too and look at Blackwater. What a moron this guy is.
November 11th, 2008 at 3:49 pmIt is so interesting to watch knuckle-draggers like Broun emerge from the shadows following Obama’s election.
I really had no idea that so many Congressional republicans apparently have nothing to do but listen to right-wing rant-radio all day and get whipped up into a frothy tantrum over the disinformation they hear there.
There really should be a minimum IQ requirement for House and Senate election contenders.
November 11th, 2008 at 3:50 pmGeorge W. Bush has ALREADY ‘gone down the road of Hitler.’
There Broun, I fixed it for you.
November 11th, 2008 at 3:50 pmRep. Paul Broun (R-GA) compared the idea to a Gestapo-like force:
– - Can we PLEASE sell our Georgia to Asia’s Georgia. They won’t have to change any nametags or license plates. Sounds like a peachy idea to me.
November 11th, 2008 at 3:54 pmNovember 11th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA) compared the idea to a Gestapo-like force:
– - He’s no doubt got a large supply of Broun shirts.
November 11th, 2008 at 3:55 pmI am not suggesting that Applebee’s may be symbolic of all things wrong with the USA. What I am saying is that their is potential of going down that word
November 11th, 2008 at 3:55 pmwhether you agree with heir broun or not — and i don’t care how sweet the post-election kool-aid is — a civilian national security force is scary.
November 11th, 2008 at 3:56 pmhow did there become their and road word?
November 11th, 2008 at 3:56 pmI’ll try that again…
“In July, Barack Obama proposed a “civilian national security force,” an idea backed by President Bush…”
What happened to the National Guard?
Oh, wait…..
…never mind…..
November 11th, 2008 at 3:57 pm“When he’s proposing to have a national security force that’s answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military…”
How can there possibly be a force – especially a civilian force – that’s as strong as the US Military?
This guy really is a moron.
November 11th, 2008 at 3:58 pm“That’s exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it’s exactly what the Soviet Union did,”
It’s probably not a good idea, Congressman, to pose with a national Russian Icon, the bear, when accusing others of soviet intentions….
D’ohh!
November 11th, 2008 at 3:59 pmBroun’s Four-Way Test
I am committed to protecting the constitutional rights and pocketbooks of every American. I will apply the following four-way test to every piece of legislation that comes before the House for a vote:
1) Is it Moral / Right? 3) Is it Necessary?
2) Is it Constitutional? 4) Is it Affordable?
Hmmmmmm, where was this litmus test when legislation came up that the Bush administration wanted desperately? What about the Iraq War? FISA? the bankruptcy bill? The Patriot Act?
November 11th, 2008 at 3:59 pmYeah, kind of like a suspension of Habeas Corpus is scary. Or a government program of wiretapping Americans without a warrant. Or the suspension of Posse Comitatus.
Oh, you weren’t scared of those things? Why not? Because Bush is a Republican? Or because he’s a white man?
November 11th, 2008 at 4:00 pmYep, Obama’s going to invade foreign nations without cause and round people up to put them in concentration camps too — oh wait, that was Bush.
-AF
November 11th, 2008 at 4:01 pmAndrew Sullivan Is A Fraud
Because that’s where the money is, Dr. Matt. That’s where the money is. Of course, they have to pretend to love America in order to get access to the money.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:02 pmGotta love the disclaimer, “I’m not comparing him to Adolf Hitler..”
After at least three statements that do exactly that.
What a fricking moron.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:03 pmThis sort of speech is way, way beyond the pale and should not be tolerated in political discourse.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:03 pmThis assclown doesn’t even know what Marxism is.
He’s hilarious. But he’s certainly not comparing Obama to Hitler…..while he’s comparing Obama to Hitler.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:08 pmscytherius Says:
“HOW are there SO many morons in this country that this idiot can hold public office?”
welcome to america.
in a perfect world the bear would have ripped his shit-for-brains head off and flung it across the room.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:09 pmSuch rubbish! Such hogwash! LMAO! This is too funny! Now Obama is being compared to Hitler by Broun?! The jokes never end!
November 11th, 2008 at 4:12 pmIt’s all good because we’re getting to see who all the “crazies” are in the GOP.
I see a fun game here. Let’s all compare things while not really comparing them shall we?
November 11th, 2008 at 4:12 pmOh, gimme a break. Has Obama actually outlined the scope of this civilian security force? How large? How would their organization be set up? To whom would they report? What exactly would their objective be? What checks and balances would be placed on them?
I cannot find any such details. I can only find that Obama mentioned it in a general way during a speech last summer. I am assuming this idea is still in the early planning stages, if it’s in any stage at all.
So — since we don’t have anything on this except for a rather blurry concept, would it kill Rep. Broun to wait for some specifics instead of screaming prematurely that this is going to be like Napoleon the Pig’s pack of trained dogs?
Oh, of course it would. Broun considers it his job to discredit the incoming president as much as he can before he’s even sworn in.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:12 pmDesperation much?
I think you could compare Bush and Cheney much better.
What country did we invade without cause? How many dead Iraqi’s? Torture who?
Illegal spying on what? The American public? Do tell.
Repukes are sh!tting all over themselves.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:13 pmI think the drubbing they took at the polls has some republicans losing their senses. Broun is a good example of hysterical hyperbole from a politician who has seen his party disintegrate, and their only hope for salvation may lie with an Alaskan moose-hunter, with ethical challenges, and personally questionable character.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:14 pmWho cares what this moron has to say? These idiots are a dying breed…….Go away nobody cares what you think!
November 11th, 2008 at 4:16 pmI think all conservatives are facists but I’m not calling them facists.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:17 pmAmerican Service Corps is a far cry from military forces. Bush, however, has already deployed army forces in the northern quadrant to maintain order in our streets.
United States President George W. Bush deployed the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team to a new role on United States soil (in early October), training for dealing with national crises. Critics claim that act of the Executive Branch violates the Posse Comitatus Act, which prohibits military participation in domestic matters.
In 2007, the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act was introduced; it overturned the Posse Comitatus Act by allowing the Commander in Chief to suppress ‘insurrection’ and ‘restore order’. When it was repealed in 2008, Bush stated that he did not respect the later repeal.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:19 pmWhy does Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA) hate the founding fathers?
“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”-2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution
November 11th, 2008 at 4:20 pmHm. Wonder if this fits into Michelle Bachmann’s criteria of “Anti-American members of Congress”
One would think comparing your commander-in-chief to Adolph Hitler is pretty damn treasonous.
Could you imagine the outrage on the right if a Dem compared Bush to Hitler?
November 11th, 2008 at 4:21 pm“I’m not comparing him to Adolf Hitler. What I’m saying is there is the potential of going down that road.”
Rep. Paul Broun
There was this potential after 9/l1 and luckily liberals, progressives and other decent citizens didn’t fall in line. This guy should be thanking us.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:23 pmThe funny thing is that Broun felt safe under George W. Bush.
**eyes rolling**
November 11th, 2008 at 4:23 pmand they wonder why
they keep losing elections.
^
November 11th, 2008 at 4:24 pmI thought it was all about “youth movements”. I guess they’re bound and determined to get from Point A to Point B one way or the other.
That being said, what the hell is Obama talking about when he says a “civilian natioanl security force”. Isn’t that the CIA (and/or the FBI, the State Department and the Deparment of Homeland Security)?
November 11th, 2008 at 4:24 pmI really don’t understand how so many idiot republicans get in office! Or why republicans are so stupid in general!
November 11th, 2008 at 4:25 pmThis supports the case that we really need to spend more money on education in this country.
From the AP yesterday
“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set,” Obama said in July. “We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”
The Obama transition team declined to comment on Broun’s remarks. But spokesman Tommy Vietor said Obama was referring in the speech to a proposal for a civilian reserve corps that could handle postwar reconstruction efforts such as rebuilding infrastructure — an idea endorsed by the Bush administration.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:25 pm………………………………
Obama is being quoted out of context here , however the loss of posse comitatus through a signing statement has resulted in the Army being activated on American soil as of Oct. 1st for a year . We can only hope Obama will rescind this order and reign in blackwater international , which has already seen active duty in New Orleans after Katrina .
EnnuiDivine Says:
——————————————————————————–
Could you imagine the outrage on the right if a Dem compared Bush to Hitler?
Or Stalin? Or both in one breath?
How about Hitler and Stalin? Who do you think would be more pissed off about being compared to a Democratic black man?
November 11th, 2008 at 4:26 pmPathetic, Frightening, Schizo!
He’s a Muslim! He’s a Terrorist! He’s a Marxist! He’s a Facist! He’s a Communist!
Jesus, Mary and the Donkey – next week he’ll be an Alien from Outer Space!!!!!!!!!
Pathetic, Pathetic, Pathetic!!!
Klaatu – Where are you when we need you?!?!?!?!?!?
November 11th, 2008 at 4:29 pmWell, isn’t this kinda like the first brigade thing that Bush brought the people back for? Sorry, can’t remember the name at the moment.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:30 pmLet republicans know that this is already happening and to tell their representatives to reinstate posse comitatus and keep Blackwater under the control of our elected officials and liable under the uniform code of military justice .
November 11th, 2008 at 4:31 pmStanding up for the constitution is vital , which ever party is in power , it was enacted to protect us from tyranny !
I’m not comparing Broun to Jeff Gannon. What I’m saying is there is the potential of going down that road.
Well, what do you know, that is fun.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:32 pmPerhaps Broun sees brownshirted folks as competition for his fellow whiterobes.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:33 pmhttp://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-scahill16-2008jun16,0,5769512.story
November 11th, 2008 at 4:33 pmWell, if this Civilian Security Force’s task is to round up Republicans and lock them up – where do I volunteer??
November 11th, 2008 at 4:33 pmIf you haven’t read Jeremy Scahill’s book here is a good link to an in depth news article written by him on blackwater.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:37 pmhttp://www.alternet.org/story/49307/
Somebody should let the good people of Georgia know he’s again’s the Second Amendment. They’d be Trampling over each other to vote him out!
November 11th, 2008 at 4:37 pmImpeach, while There’s Still Time!!!!!
#43, Southernbelle,
November 11th, 2008 at 4:40 pmLast month the Daily Onion had an exclusive story. Batboy is really the President-Elect’s half brother. I’m amazed the Repubs haven’t started running with that mess yet.
Has Obama made any specific references to Posse comitatus or for that matter presidential signing statements ? According to the WSJ and based upon his broken promise over FISA he may well leave in place or even enlarge domestic spying .
November 11th, 2008 at 4:42 pmhttp://online.wsj.com/ article/ SB122636726473415991.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Hitler was a Marxist?
Where did these idiots go to school? Shouldn’t there be some kind of basic aptitude test for public office?
November 11th, 2008 at 4:43 pmZooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
The funny thing is that Broun felt safe under George W. Bush.
**eyes rolling**
I agree Zooey but lets not be lulled into a false sense of security .The constitutional issues we have been blogging about before this election are all still in play . Make sure to remind the democrats we do not just desire a dictatorship with good social services .
November 11th, 2008 at 4:47 pmhi ralph,
yes, i’m scared of all those things, too. not to triangulate the matter, but i’m not a republican or a democrat; i see the two parties as different tentacles of the same monster. and i’m not necessarily attacking obama, i am questioning the idea of mandatory service. in fact, i like millions of others am inspired by the hope of an obama presidency – but he voted for FISA, for the iraq war, for the bailout, and he denounces iran’s right to nuclear energy programs (enriching uranium for energy).
you and i know both know that he’ll implement changes to improve our healthcare system, implement sweeping changes to help the economy and stimulate the green technologies market, provide tax cuts that favor the ever-shrinking middle class, and hopefully restore some of the precious civil liberties we’ve lost… but that doesn’t mean every one of his ideas are exempt from scrutiny.
adults can discuss the merits and faults of these things without all the smears and personal attacks, right? so, i’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and just ignore the reference to racism in your post.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:48 pmProjection. Projection. Projection.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:48 pmfreeman Says:
this was all ok when bush was in power. let the gop sweat it out until they agree to get on board and make this bullshit stop.
I’m a lot less afraid of Obama with that kind of power than I am of bush.
They made it possible for bush to do this and now want to cry foul……..what’s good for the goose, etc.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:49 pmStay calm Mr. Broun, the men in white coats will be with you shortly. I here the institutions in DC are top notch.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:50 pmWe change , I agree !
November 11th, 2008 at 4:51 pmPaging Ms. Bachman, we seem to have an un-American member of the House here. I tink he’s your long lost brother.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:53 pmHell. The bear is more qualified to serve the people of the Georgia 10th than this moron.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:54 pmI need clarification. Is the one wearing a tie Rep.Broun or is he the other one?
November 11th, 2008 at 4:54 pmCompared to Hitler, Broun is rather similar, making scurrilous, false, and incendiary remarks.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:55 pmIf I was to compare, mind you…
freeman Says:
wearechange Says:
You guys are jumping the gun. Your fears were well founded when we were talking about bush……he actually did the things you seem to fear the most.
projecting that fear onto Obama without even letting him get inaugurated is a little premature.
I would go so far as to say that it sounds like an agenda on your part for even bringing it up.
Are you just republicans who want to project or are you so-called indies who hate everyone who might take power except nader or someone else that didn’t win?
November 11th, 2008 at 4:56 pmSaxby Chambliss, now this guy. Georgians must be beaming with pride!
November 11th, 2008 at 4:56 pmA National Service Corps doesn’t necessarily mean militaristic.
Our great Nation’s infrastructure is, in some cases, a result of WPA projects. For you youngsters, that was the Works Progress Administration under FDR, and built many thousands of our schools, bridges & highways.
If Obama is going to subsidize college tuition, we need a return on our investment; namely service in return for assistance with tuition.
November 11th, 2008 at 4:56 pmParanoia runs deep…
wearechange Says:
whether you agree with heir broun or not — and i don’t care how sweet the post-election kool-aid is — a civilian national security force is scary.
Sure is scary. I mean, do YOU trust Blackwater?!
November 11th, 2008 at 4:56 pmHasn’t Bush already empowered the military to engage in domestic “security” ops? I think G Greenwald had something on this.
I must earn a living or I’d look it up….
November 11th, 2008 at 4:59 pmhell no. i am against any paramilitary force.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:01 pmI’m not comparing Broun-eye to a child molesting coprophiliac. What I’m saying is he has the potential of going down that road.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:01 pmHitler is a bit extreme comparison. So is Stalin. He seems more like Jimmy Carter. Except Carter had much more experience coming in, while Obama hasn’t ever had a job. But Obama is a gifted speaker, and the people seem to value that over skills/experience.
Obama has made a lot of promises.
I’m keeping track of them at my blog. We’ll see how many he keeps vs. breaks. Should be interesting to follow.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:01 pmFred ,
November 11th, 2008 at 5:02 pmOur democracy is too important to let our guard down , even for a moment . The power of the internet must be brought to bear continuously in that endeavor . I too am hopeful ,but we agreed to keep the heat on the democrats after the election was over .The good party’s track record on this score has been abysmal which accounts for the Congress having worse approval ratings than the most unpopular president in American history .
You have said I am naive . Perhaps trusting a politician at his word is also naive . Remember FISA and don’t let the democrats forget it either .
carver Says:
——————————————————————————–
I need clarification. Is the one wearing a tie Rep.Broun or is he the other one?
Caver,hand me that needle and thread,I just split a gut!!!..lololol
November 11th, 2008 at 5:03 pmThis clown has misinterpreted the message, but then he’s a idiot. . .besides, unlike the bush/cheney secret society, Obama’s proposals for spending American dollars will actually be discussed in open and decisions made in front of the public.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:03 pmFred
November 11th, 2008 at 5:03 pmAre you just republicans who want to project or are you so-called indies who hate everyone who might take power except nader or someone else that didn’t win?
No.
Obama Tours White House, McCain Senate.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:03 pmFred ,
November 11th, 2008 at 5:12 pmAre you so convinced that supporting the other party is all we need to do in order to maintain our democracy ?
I have posted some very troubling news items here today , by other progressives . Obama plans to expand domestic spying , Obama supports Lieberman and his first act as prez. elect is to appoint a hawk , in favor of everything Israel and of a strike on Iran as his Chief of staff .This is a bit hard to swallow as a progressive .
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance .
wearechange, my apologies. I took my cue from your line, “i don’t care how sweet the post-election kool-aid is”.
Sounded quite trollish to me.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:12 pmRepubliKKKanz are a danger to America and the world.
They MUST be contained further come 2010!
November 11th, 2008 at 5:17 pmapology accepted and i can see the logic of your interpretation. didn’t mean it that way, so sorry if it was misleading.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:17 pmso why can’t we wait till they actually do something before criticizing them? You seem awfully anxious to show that Obama will make a bad leader, that’s all I’m saying.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:20 pmI continue to believe that with the amount of money floating around in Washington the 2 party system is a rigged game . I supported Obama in this election because a 3rd party candidate had no chance of winning and because it was vital to remove the republicans . I handled the democrats with kid gloves for months for that very reason . It made me feel a little like the FOX news guy that said he couldn’t reveal to the American public that Palin didn’t know Africa wasn’t a continent till after the election . Obama won .I will not be a cheerleader from the side lines any longer .
November 11th, 2008 at 5:20 pmAs a footnote I would like to add that that should not be a reason to doubt my integrity .
OT, sorry.
Uncle HO, if you’re around. I answered your per diem question on the Lieberman thread. Comment was @5:14
Just read it, just got off work.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:21 pmjust getting back, to this headline… first reactions:
“damn! those dems got to it before WE did!”
or… and/or
there’s still time for duby’s own army to be activated…
maybe this is a … what’s the term? to prepare us for what’s coming…
and
there are some REALLY really stupid people out there just lapping up this crap…
November 11th, 2008 at 5:22 pmFor anyone who cares what this national civilian force is comprised of, perhaps you can check this out:
The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps.
http://change.gov/americaserves/serves_section/
November 11th, 2008 at 5:23 pmSo didn’t you kinda throw your integrity out the window already?
November 11th, 2008 at 5:24 pmThanks for that heads-up. Sure does sound scary, don’t it?
November 11th, 2008 at 5:25 pmI am what I appear to be , a progressive very worried about the state of our union .The election is over ,it appears that fact has left a vacuum that has yet to be filled on TP’s comment section.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:25 pmanother thought:
we, the lefy bloggers, have been pointing out, all these years, just how close bushco is to fascism…
it’s like we wrote the script for these goopers…
‘cept they’ve twisted it around, and the idjits don’t know any better…
November 11th, 2008 at 5:28 pmPutting Obama in the Hitler of the Month Club is impressive. Hitler isn’t even Hitler anymore. The anti-Christ of the Month Club should be coming soon. Then Satan of the Month. After that, there should be a considerable backlash against off-the-wall, grasping for straws hyperbole. Surely people tire of this.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:31 pmThis guy came into the House because of a special election in 2007. Anybody know when he’ll run again?
November 11th, 2008 at 5:32 pmSeeing as how Herr Busch did such a good Hitler imitation, the fascist dictator bar is set pretty damned high..
November 11th, 2008 at 5:33 pmYou just seem a little too anxious to fill it. We’ll wait for real cause…….you know like the things bush did that we fearded for good reason.
This hitler reference is dispicable and you should be offended by that if you are a progressive.
That’s what this thread is about today. Read impeachcheneythenbush’s link at 87 and tell me why this is ok and then tell me why you aren’t screaming bloody murder over it mr progressive.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:38 pmFred that’s condescending .
November 11th, 2008 at 5:38 pmI believe earlier today someone was called an it because they had voted for a 3rd party candidate in a safe state . Is it to be the case that everyone here must suspend dis belief and critical thinking in order to tow the party line ?
Where’s that at ?
There is a congress woman in Minnesota who this guy should hook up with. The differnce was that she was brave enough to speak out prior to the election, and wise enough to shut up and even backtrack in the days just before the election. The electorate barely allowed her to remain in office. She has been silent since.
On the other hand, this cowardly quack kept his mouth shut until after being elected, and shows no wisdom regarding the impact of his words (or apparently the ability to understand them himself). There are some cold and lonely quarters in Congress; perhaps these two will meet in one of them and entertain each other while the rest of this great country moves forward toward brighter days.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:41 pmYou’re the one who brought up integrity while in the same breath said you voted for someone you didn’t believe in….just sayin.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:41 pm54. El Bruce,
Today’s newsmakers from Georgia (Broun and Chamblis) they are both elected Republican officials from Georgia – State Motto, “Thank God for Mississippi.” And I might add, make me think that there may be a secret tunnel between Georgia and Oklahoma.
Your question about their schooling is quite on the mark. As I am a Georgia Tech Alum, I have to admit that their degrees from UGA explain a lot. Not to mention that Braun grew up and went to Athens schools.
From Broun’s bio http://broun.house.gov/about.shtml Paul attended Athens High School and graduated from the University of Georgia in 1967 with a B.S. in Chemistry. In 1971, …Medical Doctor degree from the Medical College of Georgia in Augusta. He represents the 10th district.
For Saxby Chamblis http://chambliss.senate.gov/public/index.cfm Chambliss earned a Bachelor’s degree in Business Administration from the University of Georgia in 1966 and earned his Juris Doctor degree from the University of Tennessee College of Law in 1968. Chambliss and his wife, Julianne, have been married since 1966, and reside in Moultrie, Georgia.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:44 pmI’m not comparing libertarians to cheap pricks too lame to pay their taxes. What I am saying is there is a potential for going down that road…
Come on gang, this is fun….
November 11th, 2008 at 5:44 pmNational Service programs could be a boon to graduating high school students who can’t afford University tuition, and would by virtue of their service get both experience and college tuition…
November 11th, 2008 at 5:44 pmMarwick – Except Carter had much more experience coming in, while Obama hasn’t ever had a job.
You need to get much more intelligent and informed before you try to track anything on your blog…which isn’t likely to get many hits from anyone with a brain…if this post is any example for your expertise.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:46 pmOkay, what am I missing? Won’t the Armed Services be answering to P-E Obama once he’s President? Why is “answering to him” such a concern??
November 11th, 2008 at 5:47 pmfreeman Says:
I’m not saying you’re a concern troll because you want to sniff and disect every fart that Obama lets before he even takes office, I’m just saying there is a danger of going down that road.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:48 pmWhat is the danger Fred ?
November 11th, 2008 at 5:49 pmFred says ,
so why can’t we wait till they actually do something before criticizing them? You seem awfully anxious to show that Obama will make a bad leader, that’s all I’m saying.
Appointing a hawk with dual citizenship, breaking his promise on FISA and supporting joe lieberman IS doing something Fred . The jury is still out ,but after his broken promise on FISA I am not willing to give him a free pass .He has allowed my civil liberties to be violated , which I place a very high value upon .
November 11th, 2008 at 5:50 pmfreeman Says:
November 11th, 2008 at 5:51 pmI’m not saying that this thread is about a republican accusing Obama of being like hitler and you are not the least concerned about that and that worries me a lot, I’m just saying there is a danger of going down that road.
I don’t believe for a minute that freeman is a troll. But freeman…really, I share your concern about our civil liberties and especially since the experience of the past almost 8 years. But can you at least give it a rest until Obama actually takes office, when he’ll actually start governing? That’s 70 days away. Give up the fear for awhile, and be hopeful. If you’re right, we’ll all find out soon enough.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:53 pmI’m not saying that you will not be happy no matter what Obama does, I’m just saying there is a danger of going down that path.
November 11th, 2008 at 5:53 pmMaybe when some of the other poster get so nasty you can give me and other progressives the benefit of the doubt and remind them to be civil ? Perhaps that should apply even to republican or conservative posters ?
November 11th, 2008 at 5:57 pmI believe there is a danger to the progressive message getting out by being dismissed through the childish game of wack a troll dominating the posts here .No kidding I really have had educated people tell me they don’t read our posts because of the crudeness .
Honestly .
I’m not saying that Fred has got it down. I am just saying that it appears that way…
November 11th, 2008 at 5:57 pmNo, no NO, RUC, you’re apparently missing the B i i i g picture.
It’s scary, I tell you!
S C A R Y!!!! Be afraid!
November 11th, 2008 at 5:59 pmhe’s showing me signs of being Marxist.”
Yeah, there is nothing more Marxist than Nazi doctrine. /sarc
Whatever.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:04 pmDon’t bank on it. I’m not saying that you are distracting from the title of the thread, I’m just saying there is a chance that you might be doing just that.
Why not explain why you are not outraged over the hitler reference. Do you consider that to be part of the civil discourse you want us to engage in?
November 11th, 2008 at 6:07 pmI can only assume from the posts here that YOU FOLKS will be the lining up to join Obama’s new “civilian corps” or whatever it ends up being called.
You folks should do your homework first to see what he intends to model it after. I don’t have the information readily available, but it appears Obama has done his research and If I remember correctly, he has studied certain well-known authors of the Marxist/Socialist persuasion. A Canadian was one of them I think.
Anyway, I think a lot of you folks will make great COMRADES in the cadres!!!
November 11th, 2008 at 6:07 pmHi Tim Vaculik
linky linky?
November 11th, 2008 at 6:08 pmThis is exactly like the tactic used by Fox News. For instance, I heard this once on Fox and Friends, or maybe it was Brit Hume:
“We aren’t saying that Barack Obama voted for infanticide, but what if he did?”
November 11th, 2008 at 6:09 pmTim Vaculik Says:
and If I remember correctly, he has studied certain well-known authors of the Marxist/Socialist persuasion.
It is called Law School.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:09 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
I can only assume from the posts here that YOU FOLKS will be the lining up to join Obama’s new “civilian corps” or whatever it ends up being called.
You folks should do your homework first to see what he intends to model it after. I don’t have the information readily available, but it appears Obama has done his research and If I remember correctly, he has studied certain well-known authors of the Marxist/Socialist persuasion.
Tim, why do you hate the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution? And, why do you call America’s Founding Fathers Marxist/Socialists?
“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
November 11th, 2008 at 6:13 pmMarxist/Socialist persuasion? Welfare mothers make better lovers.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:13 pmJuan C.
Yeah, that too…
November 11th, 2008 at 6:14 pmdbadass,
I’ll have to go look. I listen to Quinn & Rose on XM and the information was given out one morning a couple of weeks ago.
The deal is, this “civilian corps” idea is not a good thing at all from my perspective.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:17 pmshoeless,
Please. How in the world did you make that connection in your mind?
November 11th, 2008 at 6:18 pmOh well. Too much lightning here … I gotta sut down for a while!
November 11th, 2008 at 6:18 pmhere comrade…..since you seem to be incapable……be very afraid.
It really sounds scary to me. You know, all those people helping and working within their own communities for the benifit of everyone.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:18 pmWell than go look because when you say shit as if it is factual and then backpedal when the bluff is called you look weak…
November 11th, 2008 at 6:19 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
The deal is, this “civilian corps” idea is not a good thing at all from my perspective.
See any polyps from your perspective?
November 11th, 2008 at 6:20 pmdabadass, you know Tim Vacuous doesn’t DO links.
Timmeh’s arguments are obviously so strong that all he has to do is repeat what he thought he heard on right-wing radio, and that should be good enough for all of us.
Right?
November 11th, 2008 at 6:20 pmor worse yet run away with a really lame mommy is calling excuse…
November 11th, 2008 at 6:20 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
shoeless,
Please. How in the world did you make that connection in your mind?
Can’t help you there Tim. You need at least two brain cells to make a connection.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:21 pmEnough with the repub kneejerk allusions to Hitler and appeasement and soviet communism. The rest of the world cringes. Ignorant American leaders remind me of the The Last King of Scotland when when McAvoy’s character says to Whitiker’s Idi Amin “You’re a child. That’s what makes you so f-ing scary.”
November 11th, 2008 at 6:22 pmAnd just to set the record straight, Hitler was never democratically elected. It’s a common error, though, that I used to make myself before I looked into the history.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:23 pmI’m delighted Obama won.
Now, it is time to restore the Constitution, and undo the excessive concentration of power in the executive branch of our government. If it is going to require putting up with idiots (who were perfectly happy to deify georgejr), so be it. The Democratic Congress was unwilling to stand up for us (scared of being called names, like “soft on terror”), so they enabled Bush in all his atrocities, effectively repealing the Constitution in the process.
Say what you will about congressional Republicans, they do fight tough. If they are worried enough about Obama inheriting the power Congress (both Democrats & Republicans) so willingly ceded to the presidency during Bush’s term, maybe they will now reinstate our Constitutional rights, and force this country to return the rule of law. So, if this guy is worried about Obama having control over a “security force”, maybe he’ll help in eliminating Blackwater and others of their ilk…..
Precedents are precedents, especially when it comes to governmental power, including presidents’.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:24 pmRighties can’t choke down the hard fact that a Democrat like Obama is a lot better-liked by people than someone like Dubya ever was, and they’re afraid his initiatives will make him even more popular, which they likely will.
To them, if he’s popular, then it must be a dangerous kind of popular. That’s all they can get their distincly un-imaginative minds to grasp.
Hysterical ninnies, if you ask me. And enormously entertaining.
I can only wish that some of the old bull-trolls would come back and have that post-election conversation they promised us oh-so long ago. Mssrs. Bigfoot and I-Right-I and Mighty Aphrodite….I hope they’re all doing well in their bunkers now, and invite them to come and chat a bit.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:24 pmsuperid Says:
facists/totalitarian precepts….republicans make better dictators.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:25 pmVaculik = VAC-U-SUCK!
Go give yourself an emergency enema…with a hand grenade. Just to clear your mind out.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:25 pmHey, any word about Exley so far?
November 11th, 2008 at 6:27 pmSince the election the Republicans have searched for any excuse that would assuage their resounding defeat and have found nothing but a bunch of “isms.” The Republican losers claim President-Elect Obama represents Socialism, Communism, Marxism, Anarchism, and every other “ism” except one. There is one word, one concept, one ideal, one way of life, one solution, one “ism” that will eliminate all the other “isms,” and truly express what this Country represents. That word is AMERICANISM. Think about it people, and live up to your obligation as an American!
November 11th, 2008 at 6:31 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
The deal is, this “civilian corps” idea is not a good thing at all from my perspective.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Which is why you should have removed your head from your ass long ago ……
November 11th, 2008 at 6:32 pmTim Vaculik Says:
I can only assume from the posts here that YOU FOLKS will be the lining up to join Obama’s new “civilian corps” or whatever it ends up being called.
———————-
You can only assume because your whole mind is devoid of facts.
I already served this country and still bear the scars, while you probably were hiding in your mom’s basement
———————–
You folks should do your homework first to see what he intends to model it after. I don’t have the information readily available, but it appears Obama has done his research and If I remember correctly, he has studied certain well-known authors of the Marxist/Socialist persuasion. A Canadian was one of them I think.
———————-
I think you should do your homework, because you are completely devoid of facts in this part also.
Obama has a law degree and was also a constitutional law professor, so he has probably read a lot of books with words too big for you to understand.
You think?
Hardly.
———————–
Anyway, I think a lot of you folks will make great COMRADES in the cadres!!!
———————–
And you would make a great village idiot, if you could only find a village that would want you.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:33 pmThe welfare mother better lover thing was a Neil Young line, no disrespect meant. Just thought Tiny Tim V should humanize a little, him talking about persuasions and smack, he sounds like what he supposedly fears. Hmmm. More repub repression?
November 11th, 2008 at 6:33 pmNot that I’m giving Broun credit as a deep thinker, but this is the same sort of hyperbolic crap that even conservative intellectuals try.
Read Hayek if you want a straw man argument about excessive state intervention, stretched to its illogical conclusion.
They say they want freedom, but their ideal world is a straight ticket back to feudalism.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:33 pmNot so sure of that, MCM. I’m trying not to imagine what is being held back by the obstruction.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:34 pmfreeman says:
Appointing a hawk with dual citizenship, breaking his promise on FISA and supporting joe lieberman IS doing something Fred .
Actually, it turns out he didn’t make a promise on FISA. Rather, this leftist support made an assumption about his stand on FISA, which turned out to be incorrect. I’m disappointed too, but no explicit promise was made.
As to this “dual citizenship” charge, no evidence has been provided anywhere, and believe me, I’ve looked for it. All I’ve found is anonymous assertions that such evidence exists somewhere else.
As for the Lieberman thing, I’d love to see Joe horsewhipped, but Obama’s nicer than most of us. He’s the guy Lieberman attacked, and it’s his prerogative to forgive him if he wants to.
Tim Vaculic says:
You folks should do your homework first to see what he intends to model it after.
I entirely agree. Hey, if anybody has any issues or concerns about the aims, scope and implementation of Obama’s forthcoming service initiatives, feel free to check out change.gov on a regular basis as that information rolls in. You know, instead of just jumping to conclusions and freaking out.
I’ve never heard any mention by anyone (except for tinfoil hatters) of compulsory service in any form. All this stuff is just for free college.
Tim Vaculic says:
If I remember correctly, he has studied certain well-known authors of the Marxist/Socialist persuasion.
I recommend you study those authors as well. If you don’t know the details of what you’re arguing against, you can’t effectively argue against it. People who don’t know what they’re talking about are easily identified by those who do. And willful ignorance is not the same thing as intellectual integrity – in fact, it’s exactly the opposite.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:34 pmTP; about your moderation,
BITE ME!
November 11th, 2008 at 6:42 pmFred # 115
November 11th, 2008 at 6:42 pmhave you read my post and links at at #41 , 45 and 50. I am less outraged than unsurprised at a republican taking Obama out of context and calling an untested leader Hitlerian in light of the fact that Bush has been a perfect replica of our dear Adolf .
This can be used against those who sought to pull the wool over the voters eyes in order to destroy our democracy . Republicans should also be afraid of losing our freedoms !!!
I advocate enlisting them in the struggle through education . Tell them to write letters over signing statements and posse comitatus to their new legislators , who are most likely democrats, to let them know the people are no longer sleeping and will not tolerate it .
I have tried to do this very thing armed with articles on these issues from major news outlets and the ABA which I have explained 100’s times or more to all the lawyers in my area and the ministers and pastors ,newspaper editors and radio news people as well , in person .
Want the links ? Got a printer ?
Tim Vaculic
=
Vial Tic Cum
:)
November 11th, 2008 at 6:43 pmEL bruce , all the dem’s running for the nomination made the pledge on FISA in public during their debates .
November 11th, 2008 at 6:44 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
MCMetal Says:
Tim Vacuous Says:
The deal is, this “civilian corps” idea is not a good thing at all from my perspective.
Which is why you should have removed your head from your ass long ago ……
Not so sure of that, MCM. I’m trying not to imagine what is being held back by the obstruction.
Since Timmy is posting from a computer, but posts ” I don’t have the information readily available, but…”, it seems he does not even know how to use “dubya dubya dot google dot com”.
So my conclusion is whatever is being help back by the obstruction has backed all the way up into that empty cavity where his brain should be.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:48 pmEl bruce
November 11th, 2008 at 6:51 pm” Emanuel’s father had emigrated from Israel in the 1950s, where he had been a member of the terrorist group Irgun, which had been responsible for a series of terrorist attacks against Palestinian and British civilians in mandatory Palestine during the 1940s. Emanuel himself served in a civilian capacity as a volunteer for the Israeli army in the early 1990s. ”
From alternet I can repasste the link at the cost of extreme redundancy if you would like .
As to Lieberman , the majority of progressives dis agree in the extreme , and it does give the appearance of a certain coziness with AIPAC , no ?
November 11th, 2008 at 6:53 pmfreeman Says:
Your effort has the feel of anger and the desire to destroy.
November 11th, 2008 at 6:55 pmonly getting to the 100s…
i gotta say this…
freeman – stop with the whining! if you’re so sure of it, quit pleading your case, over and over and over again…
state your case, your opinion, and move on… jeez.
.
as to the FISA vote – randi explained it, again, to another caller, and i can’t do it justice but i will try…
the vote for FISA gave the spying back to the courts.
without the latest FISA vote there was no record.
now there is a RECORD of the spying.
i’m gonna trust that the whole situation will be revisited after jan.20, 09…
if not, THEN go after the president and congress to do so.
till then, move FORWARD.
PLEASE.
November 11th, 2008 at 7:00 pmIn college one person would take one side of an issue and argue in favor of it and another would argue the opposing view.
The next day we would switch and argue the other side of the issue.
Drove our girlfriends/wives crazy.
It is hard to walk in another persons shoes and I have trouble now days trying to understand the perspective that the right wing argues from.
November 11th, 2008 at 7:03 pmPretty funny all this fear about Marxists Socialists gun-snatching etc.
Namby-pambies with castration complexes running around in a sweaty panic bumping into each other knocking each other cold.
People who’ve lost their sense of reality are like the guy you try to save from drowning who can’t swim and tries dragging you down so you have to conk him over the head.
But gently. Sweat dreams…
====
November 11th, 2008 at 7:05 pmvaculips sez “I listen to Quinn & Rose”…
no wonder it’s so fookin’ stoopid.
http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/search_results?qstring=quinn+%26+rose
November 11th, 2008 at 7:06 pmBroun is a nutjob. A neo-Confederate. Figures…
====
November 11th, 2008 at 7:08 pmMebbe it’s just me, but I wouldn’t be much in favor of a “civilian national security force.”
Aamof, the more i think of it, the less i like it.
Chuy! Who would the recruit? The same drooling, xenophobic, sloppy-fat morons as those who staff the HSA at airports?
COmpletely SCREW THAT!
November 11th, 2008 at 7:09 pmAnything that Obama suggests is going to cause insane statements to flow from the patriotic pie-holes of people like Rep. Paul Broun and the loons who man the underground talk radio bunkers. The U.S. needs new programs that harness the energy of millions who are willing to help straighten things out – but these ideas, even if espoused by the ghost of Reagan himself, will be called socialist or National Socialist by the bigoted Republican base. SplendidMarbles
November 11th, 2008 at 7:10 pmFDR had to put up with the same rightwing reactionary claptrap. Even threats of coup d’etat. Especially after his first term. Among other slanders, Thomas Jefferson was accused of wanting to bring the guillotine to America. ( I wish he had…! )
====
November 11th, 2008 at 7:16 pm“So, when I’m president, I will set a goal for all American middle and high school students to perform 50 hours of service a year… and for all college students to perform 100 hours of service a year.
That’s two hours a week. It’s not a lot.
And by the time you graduate, though, it adds up. You will have done 17 weeks of service. And we can reach this goal in several ways. At the middle and high school levels, we’ll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service plans, and give school resources to offer new service opportunities.”
Barack Obama
Colorado Springs, July 2, 2008
Hmmmm… Looks like Federal arm twisting to me.
November 11th, 2008 at 7:19 pmTim Vaculik Says He’s An Idiot
November 11th, 2008 at 7:24 pmThis article says it better than I can:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74462
November 11th, 2008 at 7:24 pmNo timme, a federal arm twisting looks like the bailout that bush had to have to save our economy after his policies failed miserably.
November 11th, 2008 at 7:24 pmFrom WorldNetDaily
November 8, 2008:
Hmmmmm….
November 11th, 2008 at 7:26 pmClick here to see what it looks like and check back with us.
November 11th, 2008 at 7:27 pmAm I getting warm?
The bottom line is, you have to look at who Obama associates with to understand where he’s coming from!
Like I’ve told may people – read Saul Alinsky; read William Ayers, then compare some of their beliefs and tactics to Obama’s record!
November 11th, 2008 at 7:29 pmFred Says:
In college one person would take one side of an issue and argue in favor of it and another would argue the opposing view.
The next day we would switch and argue the other side of the issue.
We did this in college as well as in high school, on the debate team. You really have to know both sides of an issue to really understand it.
To this day I still may take the opposite side ( devil’s advocate ) just for fun to test someone’s argument.
That really drives some people nuts, heh.
I really miss the few trolls that actually had enough brains to give your debate skills a bit of a workout. Seems those days are long gone now.
November 11th, 2008 at 7:29 pmtombaker Says:
I can only wish that some of the old bull-trolls would come back and have that post-election conversation they promised us oh-so long ago. Mssrs. Bigfoot and I-Right-I and Mighty Aphrodite….I hope they’re all doing well in their bunkers now, and invite them to come and chat a bit.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo! (think colbert)
please, NOooo!
November 11th, 2008 at 7:29 pmTim Vaculik Says:
From WorldNetDaily
Hahahaha
he posts from word nut daily as if it is a viable source of factual news.
Hahahahaha
November 11th, 2008 at 7:30 pmTim Vaculik Says:
From WorldNetDaily
Hahahaha
he posts from word nut daily as if it is a viable source of factual news.
Hahahahaha
Hence the term, “Tim Vaculik is an idiot”.
November 11th, 2008 at 7:34 pm#103, all he’s done as senator is campaign and go out on fundraisers. He does that well. I bet he does a lot of that the next 4 years.
President Fundraiser
November 11th, 2008 at 7:45 pmcheck out the C&L version of this story;
The looming Obamahitler dictatorship: Deja vu all over again
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/looming-obamahitler-dictatorship-dej
great picture there… also lotsa links…
November 11th, 2008 at 8:01 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Anyway, I think a lot of you folks will make great COMRADES in the cadres!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And I think a lot of you rightwing morons make great cells in the Limborg hivemind. My GOD you are ignorant
November 11th, 2008 at 8:04 pmTim Vaculik Says:
When you cite WorldNUTdaily you out yourself as too stupid to be believed. Just go whole hog and cite the Rush Limbaugh homepage.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:06 pmTim Vaculik Says:
WorldNUTdaily AGAIN? You do know you are a waste of precious oxygen that someone with a functional cerebral cortex could be using dont you?
November 11th, 2008 at 8:10 pmEugeneDebs Says:
Tim Vaculik Says:
When you cite WorldNUTdaily you out yourself as too stupid to be believed. Just go whole hog and cite the Rush Limbaugh homepage.
Or the Drudge Report, lmao.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:15 pmIn case some of you didn’t notice, the WorldNetDaily article was quoting an Investors Business Daily article…
But that really doesn’t matter, does it?
You folks can disagree with me or anyone else, but what you can’t do is hide behind a fake sense of “moral superiority” or simply denigrate the intelligence of your opponents. That just reflects back on you.
I am very well informed, but I just see things differently than a lot of you.
But that doesn’t really matter does it?
November 11th, 2008 at 8:24 pm“Paul Broun and his paranoia of renown” -Keith Olberman
ha! …
November 11th, 2008 at 8:25 pmRep. Broun made Keith’s worse person list tonight.
Go figure.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:26 pmmarwick,
if you’re not raising
funds then no one will
send you money.
how nice of you.
:)
thank you.
^
November 11th, 2008 at 8:28 pmI may end up being wrong about various things our new President wants to do, but if that turns out to be the case I will be the first to admit it. In the mean time, I will continue to evaluate things as they unfold.
For example, I see that Obama will immediately rescind the executive order prohibiting federal dollars from going towards embryonic stem cell research.
This is an abridgement of MY rights. I have moral objections to abortion or the destruction of any human life. My objections stem from my faith.
Obama, by rescinding this order (which is totally unnecessary by the way) will be trampling on the rights of all Christians and anyone else whose faith respects the sanctity of human life.
So he’s not starting off on a good note in my book. Don’t even get mestarted on his infanticide vote.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:30 pmIt’s a common misconception that President Bush banned embryonic stem cell research. This is simply not the case.
All the President did was prohibit the use of FEDERAL dollars for this type of research. The research itself continues, but there is a lot of disagreement over whether or not it shows the type of promise other stem cell research has been proven to give.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:33 pmif you’re against abortion, i suggest that you don’t have one.
your faith has nothing to do with anyone else’s right to safe, legal abortion. welcome to the 21st century, timmy.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:36 pmTim BSculik babbles:
In case some of you didn’t notice, the WorldNetDaily article was quoting an Investors Business Daily article…
Is it the same Investors Business Daily that asked “Would Obama put African tribal or family interests ahead of U.S. interests?” claiming it is a valid question, and pretending it has no racist undertones?
The same publication that claimed Obama’s religion is “lapsed Muslim, new Christian or some mixture of the two”?
Apparently, it’s no more better source of information than the WorldNutDaily -and no more accurate either.
I am very well informed,
Given that you rely on publications that can publish the claptrap above, you are obviously not.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:37 pmTim Vaculik Says:
I may end up being wrong about various things
From what I have seen, you have been wrong about everything. And you do not want to know the truth, which is worst than just being ignorant by itself.
This is why you are the subject of ridicule
November 11th, 2008 at 8:39 pmbut i’ll bet you’re pro-war on terror, right, tim?
you want a bib for that frothing problem?
November 11th, 2008 at 8:40 pmTim BSculik babbles:
This is an abridgement of MY rights.
Impeding stem cell research is one of *your* rights?
Did you skip civic lessons while in school? Because you did go to school at some point in your life, didn’t you?
Don’t even get mestarted on his infanticide vote.
I know you may have problems seeing the difference between the two, but a stem cell is *not* an infant by any stretch of the imagination.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:42 pmThis is an abridgement of MY rights. I have moral objections to abortion or the destruction of any human life. My objections stem from my faith.
How many infertility clinics have you picketed?
None, you say?
Hypocrite.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:42 pmActually, George Bush went against the rights of those individuals who are suffering from diseases where stem cell research would benefit. Oh wait! You neocons don’t care about REAL life, you know, THE LIVING BREATHING OUTSIDE THE WOMB KIND OF LIFE!
Yep, kills thousands of Iraqis and it’s okay. Touch a stem cell and the right wingers drop to the ground holding their stomachs as if they’ve been kicked.
Dumbasses. Hypocritical, ridiculous, ironic…dumbasses.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:43 pmAnyone who says ” I have moral objections to abortion or the destruction of any human life. My objections stem from my faith.” and doesn’t, in the same sentence, call for laws to make infertility clinics illegal, is a hypocrite of the first order.
Is that you, Tim?
November 11th, 2008 at 8:45 pmI have moral objections to abortion or the destruction of any human life. My objections stem from my faith.
Says the twit who supports the occupation of Iraq, and the destruction of human life there…
Then again, those are just brown people, and/or out of the womb. Reichwingers don’t care for either.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:49 pmAnyone who says they’re are against the destruction of life and is calling themselves a republican is the biggest hypocrite on the planet and is one who was gleeful seeing dead Iraqi men, women, and children on their televisions/online and who could have cared less that almost 3,000 Americans died on 9/11. Yep, it’s all about the unborn zygote to these people!
November 11th, 2008 at 8:50 pmTo get back to the original post:
REPUBLICANS ARE DESPERATELY TRYING TO TAKE THE HEAT OFF GEORGE W. BUSH WHO RAN A HITLER-LIKE FASCIST REGIME FOR 8 YEARS, SO THEY’RE DEFLECTING THIS BY MAKING BARACK OBAMA OUT TO WHAT GEORGE IS/WAS.
The End.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:50 pmTimmeh, I have moral objections to wars of choice and invasions of nations that posed no threat to us.
What do you suggest I do about THAT abridgement of MY rights?
November 11th, 2008 at 8:51 pmTim Vacuous is a fun troll. I like him.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:52 pmTim BSculik is a slow wit. Maybe even slower than that other troll, Tracist_5.
And they both fancy themselves well informed, as they babble about how Iraq’s WMD were found…
November 11th, 2008 at 8:56 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Tim Vacuous is a fun troll. I like him.
I think you’re just out of shape, ralph. You just like him because he’s too stupid to go away.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:56 pmYou’re probably right, gum.
I am a bit out of shape after this long troll dry spell. Maybe I just like Timmeh because he’s so good at lofting softballs that we all can smack against the scoreboard.
Still, you gotta admit it’s fun, even if not much of a challenge.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:59 pmGregor Samsa Says:
Tim BSculik is a slow wit. Maybe even slower than that other troll, Tracist_5.
And they both fancy themselves well informed, as they babble about how Iraq’s WMD were found…
It’s part of the standard model, without any useful options. Assertions of intelligence and a wide range of knowledge are made, and constantly self-refuted by references to worldnet, newsmax, et al.
November 11th, 2008 at 8:59 pmI’m thinking something along the lines of the slower, stupider brother of Otto, Kevin Kline’s character in A Fish Called Wanda.
November 11th, 2008 at 9:01 pm“That’s exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it’s exactly what the Soviet Union did,” Broun said. “When he’s proposing to have a national security force that’s answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he’s showing me signs of being Marxist.”
What private, Soviet security force is he talking about”
Spetznatz?
They weren’t private, were they?
November 11th, 2008 at 9:06 pmTim Vaculik Says:
This is an abridgement of MY rights. I have moral objections to abortion or the destruction of any human life. My objections stem from my faith.
Your rights?! What about the rights of the millions of people that that stem cell research may help? The way you put it, your rights are more important than theirs. If you ever should become pregnant then by all means carry the baby to term. And does your objections to the destruction of any human life include war? Your faith is yours for whatever reasons. They are not mine and likely not of most any other person in this country. Tax dollars should benefit everyone equally, not just people of your faith. Your faith does not make you more special or more deserving than me or anyone else.
Obama, by rescinding this order (which is totally unnecessary by the way) will be trampling on the rights of all Christians and anyone else whose faith respects the sanctity of human life.
How is this trampling on the rights of Christians? You have a right to align yourselves with any religious faith. You just don’t have a right to force your religious beliefs upon the whole of the nation. This sanctity fo human life thing you seem to cling to is a joke. That would infer all life, adults included. Again, what about the millions of civilian men, women and children that are mercilessly maimed and slaughtered in war? Especially the needless one in Iraq.
So he’s not starting off on a good note in my book. Don’t even get mestarted on his infanticide vote.
Infanticide. Nice, horrible sounding word to try to bolster your argument, but not applicable. Infanticide is the killing of an infant, already born, alive and has a viable chance of becoming an adult with proper upbringing. Most undesired pregnancies are terminated within the first trimester. Hardly an infant. And contrary to your selfish beliefs, no one that I know of is pro-abortion. Abortion is a difficult decision of last resort left to that individual and anyone they choose to consult for personal support. If there is a god then their decisions will affect how their god judges them at the appropriate time (generally accepted as upon death).
So, Tim, how does the decision of a young woman with a promising future that is experiencing an unwanted pregnancy to have that pregnancy terminated affect you and your life? If you don’t want women to have access to safe abortions (which are legal I might add) then why don’t you promote safe sex with any one of the proven birth control methods available to us today? Oh, I forgot, you don’t want people to have sex either unless they’re married and only for the purpose of procreation.
November 11th, 2008 at 9:11 pmgum, ralph,
You might both be right. Heh….
November 11th, 2008 at 9:15 pmGee, was Broun as concerned when the McCain/Palin rallies started to represent the Brownshirts? Was this bonehead as concerned when the Patriot Act undermined our Bill of Rights? Was this jerk-off from Georgia this worried when our government finagled the law so it could spy on citizens? Sorry Broun, but you’re simply a country fried idiot who just saw your precious GOP get a$$kicked nationally and now you’re simply nothing more than a home grown terrorist when you talk this kind of crap.
November 11th, 2008 at 9:17 pmAs a law professor, President-elect Barack Obama was a constitutional scholar.
Until Obama gives me reason to distrust him (and his honoring his oath to uphold and defend our constitution from both foreign and domestic enemies), to distrust him as much as we’ve all grown to distrust lame-duck President George W. Bush and his crack(pot) crew of equally lame-duck right-wing thugs and sycophants, then I trust that President-elect Obama, when he becomes president in January, will not only reverse all the right-wing assaults on our constitution and freedoms under George W. Bush, but will actively seek to expand our freedoms to that level we enjoyed before Bush and Cheney, and their right-wing fascist friends, slithered into our nation’s executive branch in January 2001.
I will wait and see (as with any president, no matter what party), but the right-wing “spin” that a President Barack Obama would even entertain the idea of continuing any of the fascist policies of the outgoing Bush/Cheney administration is really far-fetched…especially if President Barack Obama wants to get re-elected as U.S. president in 2012. The last thing our country needs is anyone acting like Bush or Cheney in our executive branch, or anyone looking like Bush- or Cheney-lite…or Joe Lie-berman.
November 11th, 2008 at 9:23 pmWhat a complete DUFUS! It’s obvious he doesn’t know diddly about Obama’s “civilian national security force,” about as benign as you can get.
Isn’t Sarah Palin’s stupidity enough for Republicans? Must yet ANOTHER one run off at the mouth about something he knows nothing about? He certainly knows nothing about Marx if he thinks a civilian service corps is “Marxist”.
Send these idiots back to school, keep a paddle handy, and MAKE them study.
November 11th, 2008 at 9:41 pmWell, well, well. Some predictable responses to my last post I see.
I wasn’t equating infanticide with stem cell research. Seems like all of you missed a key word “… Obama’s vote.” I was referring to his vote against partial-birth abortion, which is just a fancy word for infanticide. It’s a fact that Senator Obama is even more extreme wnen it comes to the pro-abortion stance than every other Senator in Washington!
Next, about the war. SORRY, but you don’t get to equate wars and national defense with individual rights. And like I said, medical researchers were free to continue embryonic stem-cell research under the Presidents order, but not with tax dollars paid by people who have strong moral objections to the use of human embryos.
Seems like a lot of you don’t know much about this subject…
November 11th, 2008 at 10:23 pmI’m picking up on another undercurrent here…
If you folks think that the new President will give up the precedents put in place by his predecessor, I’ve got ocean-front property in Arizona to sell you!
What I’m talking about, of course are executive orders, laws, etc. that give the President power to handle things related to the internal security of our nation. In fact, I think the new President is going to find the Homeland Security agency QUITE useful.
You folks are DREAMERS!
November 11th, 2008 at 10:29 pmI’m not comparing Paul Broun to the pucker of my anus, but I am invoking them both within the same sentence, so I think you take my meaning…
November 11th, 2008 at 10:33 pmBack on topic.
I don’t think what the new President wants to do is reminiscent of Hitler’s Germany. If anything, it would be more like what happens in communist countries.
RE-education camps are gonna be so much fun!
November 11th, 2008 at 10:36 pmOff topic:
a Petition for Writ of Certiorari has been filed with the U.S. Supreme Court to force Senator Obama to produce evidence he is a U.S. Citizen.
Some of you may be following Philip Berg’s quest to have the good Senator prove his citizenship by producing a real birth certificate.
Interesting story!
November 11th, 2008 at 10:42 pmI think this site might help you.
November 11th, 2008 at 10:47 pmTim Vaculik Says:
NO Tim you are NOT well informed. You are BRAINWASHED they are not the same thing. NO ONE who was well informed would still be trying to sell the Atta in Prague idiocy or say the Czech intelligence still stands by it when in fact THEY told our intelligence they didnt believe it. Not to mention that the FBI said they knew where Atta was at this time and it wasnt in Prague. You have willing turned your brain over to the screechmonkeys. THEY tell you what to think and you dont CARE about the truth or factual reality only the propaganda value and how something conforms to the delusional fantasies you have made up in your head so NO you are not well informed you are brainwashed and that is like the opposite of well informed. Simply put you are an idiot. It is extra pathetic though that while you call us names you whine so piteously that we dont treat YOU with the utmost respect. Cowboy up or just STFU
November 11th, 2008 at 10:51 pmStop whining. We live in a democracy and our tax dollars go to all sorts of things that we may not like. If you don’t like what Barack is doing, don’t vote for him in 2012.
November 11th, 2008 at 10:51 pmNat Says: #214
Well done!
November 11th, 2008 at 10:52 pmTim Vaculik Says:
I may end up being wrong about various things our new President wants to do, but if that turns out to be the case I will be the first to admit it. In the mean time, I will continue to evaluate things as they unfold.
For example, I see that Obama will immediately rescind the executive order prohibiting federal dollars from going towards embryonic stem cell research.
This is an abridgement of MY rights. I have moral objections to abortion or the destruction of any human life. My objections stem from my
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
This is another reason you are an idiot. That was a completely logic free statement. It is NOT an abridgement of your rights. Its plain STUPID to say either you do things MY WAY or you are abridging my rights. No one is going to make you USE whatever breakthrough comes from stemcell research. Feel free to DIE of Parkinsons or whatever they cure with stemcells if that ever happens. No one is MAKING you do anything or STOPPING you from living in your way they just arent being constrained by what YOU think they should do. Its plain STUPID to say that is an abridgement of YOUR rights. When they demand YOU harvest stemcells get back to us.
November 11th, 2008 at 10:56 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Next, about the war. SORRY, but you don’t get to equate wars and national defense with individual rights. And like I said, medical researchers were free to continue embryonic stem-cell research under the Presidents order, but not with tax dollars paid by people who have strong moral objections to the use of human embryos.
Seems like a lot of you don’t know much about this subject…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
YOU dont know much about ANY subject you are bone ignorant. I guess YOU dont get to decide what IS a violation of YOUR rights but what ISNT a violation of my rights using your specious and ludicrous logic then fighting wars of aggression and making nuclear weapons are an abridgement of MY rights because I have religious objections to them. Blessed are the peacemakers not the nuclear weapons makers. I appologize to real logic for using the term in the same post as an answer to YOU.
November 11th, 2008 at 11:01 pmoh, Timmeh, I just knew I’d have to explain it to you.
See, Timmeh, unless you were forced to experiment on embryonic stem cells or abort a fetus, the only “rights” of yours that were trampled stemmed from government support for these activities using your tax dollars — and in the case of abortion, not even that.
So you object to activities being funded by you. In a similar way, I object to my tax dollars being used to fund an immoral war (which was NOT in any justifiable way connected with defense of the nation, Timmeh).
So please explain how YOUR objection to the way your tax dollars were spent is in any way more important than MINE.
Thanks.
November 11th, 2008 at 11:03 pmTim Vaculik Says:
I’m picking up on another undercurrent here…
If you folks think that the new President will give up the precedents put in place by his predecessor, I’ve got ocean-front property in Arizona to sell you!
What I’m talking about, of course are executive orders, laws, etc. that give the President power to handle things related to the internal security of our nation. In fact, I think the new President is going to find the Homeland Security agency QUITE useful.
You folks are DREAMERS!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And if YOU think you can read minds or predict the future then YOU are as stupid as, well, as you are. We will see but YOUR I Ching doesnt convince me of anything. We will SEE if he continues for instance warrantless wiretapping. Maybe he will but you tellins us WE are dreamers just means you are projecting and judging others by your ethically challenged worldview
November 11th, 2008 at 11:06 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Interesting story!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No STUPID righwing desperation. His birth record has been produced I have seen a notice in the local paper from his birth. It is sad and pathetic how you wingnuts will go to any lenght to show there is no level of moral depravity you wont sink to but its not interesting except in a look at the pathology sort of way
November 11th, 2008 at 11:08 pmWhat’s the big deal, Timmeh? It was cool with you guys when it was the functional moron Bush at the controls, right?
If you’ve got nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to worry about. Isn’t that how the saying goes, Timmeh?
November 11th, 2008 at 11:10 pmExplain? Timmeh? Thats like asking for higher brain function from a lump of wet sand. Regurgitate what he was TOLD to think is as far as Timmeh can go
November 11th, 2008 at 11:11 pmI know, EugeneDebs, I know. But I want to give Timmeh every opportunity to demonstrate some form of higher brain function.
Still waiting, of course…
November 11th, 2008 at 11:15 pmTimmy, Timmy, Timmy…sigh
There is NO SUCH THING AS PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION. None at all. Do your homework a bit more. It’s an outright lie bandied about by religious idealists, easily debunked. My high-school aged daughter did a paper about it in ninth grade.
November 11th, 2008 at 11:20 pmIf I cared, I’d think it was disturbing how supremely comfortable and confident the Tim troll is with his ignorance.
November 11th, 2008 at 11:21 pmZooey Says:
If I cared, I’d think it was disturbing how supremely comfortable and confident the Tim troll is with his ignorance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If I didnt think there were a few million brainwashed hiveminders like Timmeh I would feel the same but never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups
November 11th, 2008 at 11:28 pmFOR THE IDIOT TROLLS–HERE IS SOME HOMEWORK FOR YOU
Stems cells used in research are not embryos–they are embryoblasts and there is a big difference, and they are DEFINITELY NOT ABORTED FETUSES.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blastocyst
And that is all the time I deign to waste on you mouth-breathers on this topic. I only used wikipedia because I figured you could read it more easily given your limited IQs-and the fact that it has a picture might help your comprehension
November 11th, 2008 at 11:39 pmralph the wonder llama Says
November 11th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
So you object to activities being funded by you. In a similar way, I object to my tax dollars being used to fund an immoral war (which was NOT in any justifiable way connected with defense of the nation, Timmeh).
______________________________________________________
I think you may have hit on something here, Ralph. Since the far right claims that there is no “ban” on stem-cell research, just so long as it’s not funded by taxpayer money, perhaps we could say that there’s no “ban” on keeping a military presence in Iraq — just so long as it’s not funded by taxpayer money.
November 11th, 2008 at 11:46 pm______
the Lone Voice of Reason Says:
Timmy, Timmy, Timmy…sigh
There is NO SUCH THING AS PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION. None at all. Do your homework a bit more. It’s an outright lie bandied about by religious idealists, easily debunked. My high-school aged daughter did a paper about it in ninth grade.
November 11th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
______
Of course there is no procedure that is medically called partial birth abortion. The procedure is actually called dilation and extraction or D&X. Sounds innocuous enough. Unfortunately, no matter what one calls it, it still involves “…dilating the woman’s cervix, then pulling the fetus through it feet first until only the head remained inside. Using scissors or another sharp instrument, the head was then punctured, and the skull compressed, so it, too, could fit through the dilated cervix.” What’s in a name?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5168163
November 11th, 2008 at 11:53 pmFrom your link, upright- a direct copy
But “partial-birth” is not a medical term. It’s a political one, and a highly confusing one at that, with both sides disagreeing even on how many procedures take place, at what point in pregnancy, and exactly which procedures the law actually bans
November 12th, 2008 at 12:08 amI am not for abortion, but I also do not think anyone has a right to tell someone what they can do with their body because of religious ideals that they want to foist off on others. Religion like that is theocracy. Theocracy is for the medieval ages and belongs there.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:11 amOkay Tim the TrollMan answer me this. I work with a woman who is pro-Palin (OMG abstinance only, abortion is a sin) kind of person. I don’t know if you’ve read about the recent babies born alive who are stabbed to death by their birth mothers but……….
According to her, both “mothers” answers to the whole horrendous turn of events is that they “just should have said ‘no’” to begin with. Problem solved, case closed.
So, you being a manly man and all, how exactly would you deal with a gal who had gotten you all hot an bothered? What if this gal perhaps had gotten a bit turned on and lost her inhibition to “just say no”.
You freakoids really p*ss me off. Sex is a human function. Whether it’s between one man and one woman or two women and one man or whatever, two consenting persons able to determine their own sexuality (don’t cum in your pants now junior) ….. it just doesn’t really matter.
What matters is the life society can provide for that child once IT IS BORN. Are these babies really any better off now because their mother’s stabbed them to death after birth or would it have been more merciful for their mothers to have aborted them before they were fetuses and mearly embrios?
You’re the Judge Man Tim. So judge thee lest ye be judged. Life is real easy in hypothiticals so puzzle me this Batman and please don’t give me “the girl should have been responsbile and used birth control or kept her legs together” crap. Play YOUR role in the whole mess.
If you truly want to END abortion in the Unitied States, how does our US policy need to address single parents AND single parents whose birth father has chosen to abandon HIS responsibility?
I’ll wait but doubt you’ll have a response.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:21 am______
the Lone Voice of Reason Says:
From your link, upright- a direct copy
But “partial-birth” is not a medical term. It’s a political one, and a highly confusing one at that, with both sides disagreeing even on how many procedures take place, at what point in pregnancy, and exactly which procedures the law actually bans
November 12th, 2008 at 12:08 am
______
I agreed in my previous post that the term partial birth abortion doesn’t exist in medicine. The procedure that the term refers to is the same no matter what one calls it. That is also unchanged by how often it happens and at what point in a pregnancy it happens.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:23 amApparently Herr Draculik doesn’t seem to think that folks like myself, who are retiring in ten or twelve years would consider doing some national service in our retirement?
November 12th, 2008 at 12:28 amGeez.
Me and hubby are right with you RUC. But we’re a bit closer, say 5 years. We’d love to put our educations toward national service. With nothing (hear us trolls, NOTHING, in return). It’s time to be Americans again.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:36 ami heard a woman tell her story about her pregnancy going horribly wrong… she was in a medical emergency and heavily drugged… her husband had to make the decision to save HER life – and a future together to try again for another baby – or allow her to die so that the life of the baby could POSSIBLY be saved…
how dare anyone judge that man for his decision to save his wife and marriage and future together…
stupid fools who talk about “partial birth abortion” are the most incredibly uninformed and sanctimonious hypocrites in the world.
at first mention of the term, the ignorance is obvious…
November 12th, 2008 at 12:39 ama signal that such a person cannot be taken seriously…
except to be kept from making and promoting any kind of policy.
I hear you Katy. It’s hard to find ANY Doctor willing to perform a second term LET ALONE third term abortion. It just doesn’t happen, at least in Minnesota.
Most women KNOW they’re pregnant in the first three months. In my opinion, if you haven’t figured out what you’re going to do with the pregancy in three months, you’ve already made your decision (unless it involves your life of course).
This “late term abortion” crap is just a myth staged to get the fanatics in a frenzy.
BTW, if the Republicans were TRULY sincere about having abortion abolished, didn’t they have the PERFECT opporunity from 2000-2006? The Republicans ruled both houses, the executive branch and the court. It WAS THEIR TIME. So you morons who vote for the R’s because they “will end abortion”. Good freaking luck. They had their chance. They didn’t do it. They only use abortion too hook YOU in to vote against your own best interest. Feel used? You should.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:00 am______
katy Says:
stupid fools who talk about “partial birth abortion” are the most incredibly uninformed and sanctimonious hypocrites in the world.
at first mention of the term, the ignorance is obvious…
a signal that such a person cannot be taken seriously…
except to be kept from making and promoting any kind of policy.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:39 am
______
Of course, as the Supreme Court ruling pointed out, “In addition, if intact D&E is truly necessary in some circumstances, a prior injection to kill the fetus allows a doctor to perform the procedure, given that the Act’s prohibition only applies to the delivery of “a living fetus,”
November 12th, 2008 at 1:07 amSee, no problem.
Well, HI Trixie!! Haven’t heard from you in a while and it’s good to do so! Hope you are having better days since the last time I saw your posts here :D
And the abortion issue as you stated above is the exact same argument I try to use with these smooth-brains. Like bashing one’s head against a wall, but we must keep trying.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:08 amUptight, if you are a man, and I use that term loosely with you, you have absolutely no sway in the matter of abortion. I mean, unless you had some odd sex change thing, you will never have to deal with it personally, right? Unless there’s some family tie issues or something you could be worried about?
November 12th, 2008 at 1:11 amWell, I’ve waited nearly an hour and haven’t heard a peep from “TimTheEmbryoMan”. I’m going to bed and will be wondering….will this brave masked man be able to explain his disconnect from his own reality and what’s fed to him through the RNC? Will he ever be able to reconcile the reality of his perceptions from the BS he’s being fed? Stay tuned. Same Bat Time. Same Bat Channel.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:16 amNice to read you too LVR. Keep up the good fight!
November 12th, 2008 at 1:19 amNight, night and sweet dreams for a better tomorrow, Trixie. I’m heading to bed soon myself. Troll whacking done make my own head hurt.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:20 am______
the Lone Voice of Reason Says:
Uptight, if you are a man, and I use that term loosely with you, you have absolutely no sway in the matter of abortion. I mean, unless you had some odd sex change thing, you will never have to deal with it personally, right? Unless there’s some family tie issues or something you could be worried about?
November 12th, 2008 at 1:11 am
______
I responded to your claim that “There is NO SUCH THING AS PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION. None at all.” It exists, only under a different technical name.
What difference does one’s gender make? You are of the opinion that a father has no say in the life or death of his child? Presumably, you also believe that a man can’t be made to pay support for a child that he didn’t want?
As I noted previously, the Supreme Court ruling pointed out that all a doctor has to do is use an injection to kill the baby first, then he is free to do as he pleases. The ban is only against partially delivering and puncturing the skull of living babies.
“This traditional rule is consistent with Casey, which confirms both that the State has an interest in promoting respect for human life at all stages in the pregnancy,and that abortion doctors should be treated the same as other doctors. Medical uncertainty does not foreclose the exercise of legislative power in the abortion context any more than it does in other contexts. Other considerations also support the Court’s conclusion, including the fact that safe alternatives to the prohibited procedure, such as D&E, are available. In addition, if intact D&E is truly necessary in some circumstances, a prior injection to kill the fetus allows a doctor to perform the procedure, given that the Act’s prohibition only applies to the delivery of “a living fetus,”
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/06pdf/05-380.pdf
November 12th, 2008 at 1:38 amActually, I think that if a parent carries a child to term, that there should be legislation protecting the other parent’s rights, including the right to not have to pay child support if it can be agreed upon within a legal time period–whole other topic here
Her body, her choice–same with the wishes of a patient to have or not have cancer treatments. When it comes out of her body, viable and breathing, then the other person can have a say. Just because a woman is the one who bears the child does not mean religious idealists can force her to do so. Theocracy has no place in democracy.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:48 amHis grandaddy Prescot Bush did business with Hitler…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
November 12th, 2008 at 1:50 amFigure out a way to stick that baby inside the man and I’d be all for it.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:52 amYou’re right phatbenetar, I have totally gotten off topic on this thread. My apologies.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:56 am______
the Lone Voice of Reason Says:
Theocracy has no place in democracy.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:48 am
______
One doesn’t have to be religious to believe that life begins at conception. Even so, one law based upon the religious beliefs of the majority hardly constitutes a theocracy.
“Surely, secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering the public square…”
“To say that men and women should not inject their “personal morality” into public-policy debates is a practical absurdity; our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition. What our deliberative, pluralistic democracy does demand is that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion specific, values.”
Barack Obama
November 12th, 2008 at 2:01 amIf there are any people in power recently that could even reasonable be compared with Hitler then its the neocons.
November 12th, 2008 at 5:34 amPNAC + full spectrum dominance I do believe might have impressed Hitler..
AbleCluster:
November 12th, 2008 at 8:41 amEver been beaten around the head and neck with a broken bottle?
It’s a rotten shame that most folks were never told that our President George W Bush own grandfather (Prescott Bush) helped Hitler finance his “Tomorrow the Vorlt” dream. Now the Bush republican’s twist that truth to place it on genuine leaders that want the best for the People.
November 12th, 2008 at 6:32 pmLone Voice,
That’s odd, I found a definition at Wikipedia:
Intact dilation and extraction (IDX or intact D&X), also known as intact dilation and evacuation (intact D&E), dilation and extraction (D&X), intrauterine cranial decompression and controversially in the United States as partial birth abortion, is a surgical abortion wherein an intact fetus is removed from the uterus via the cervix. The procedure may also be used to remove a deceased fetus that is developed enough to require dilation of the cervix for its extraction. [1]
Though the procedure has had a low rate of usage, representing 0.17% (2,232 of 1,313,000) of all abortions in the United States in the year 2000, according to voluntary responses to an Alan Guttmacher Institute survey,[2] it has developed into a focal point of the abortion debate. In the United States, intact dilation and extraction was made illegal under some circumstances by the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act, which the U.S. Supreme Court upheld in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart.
November 12th, 2008 at 8:32 pmTrixie,
Well, I’m not sure exactly how to respond because you haven’t formulated a coherent question.
Let me just re-state the (obvious) basics and the moral principle involved:
The most basic of all rights is the right to life, would you not agree? This is enshrined in our Constitution as well.
There is really no question as to what constitutes human life. If a woman is pregnant and carrying life within her, ask yourself, “what kind of life is it?”
Is it some sort of parasite on the mother? No.
Is it of any other form than Human? No.
Can it live outside the mother’s body? Not until it develops sufficiently.
So, this is very basic stuff. Either a woman is carrying a beating human heart inside a developing human being or not. Which is it?
Therefor, I submit that NO ONE has the right to terminate this life just because they want to. Men have just as much of a right as women to weigh in on this crucial moral issue.
November 12th, 2008 at 8:44 pm