CNN fails to identify former Bush homeland security official in report on torture.
CNN fails to identify former Bush homeland security official in report on torture.
CNN aired a story this afternoon reporting that human rights groups are urging President-elect Obama to “investigate whether the Bush administration is guilty of war crimes,” specifically, torture techniques that were approved for use against terror suspects. CNN reporter Kelli Arena noted that human rights groups argue that torture should never be used, but that “[i]ntelligence experts say that would be a mistake.” Which “expert” did Arena turn to to make that case? Former White House Homeland Security adviser Fran Townsend. At no point did CNN identify Townsend as a former Bush official. Instead, she was labeled an “intelligence expert” and “CNN national security contributor.” Watch it:
CNN was either too lazy to find another “intelligence expert,” or they didn’t have any luck finding anyone else to say it’s okay to torture.
Transcript:
ARENA: The government admits that at least three top al-Qaeda operatives were waterboarded or made to feel like they were drowning, a technique the CIA says it no longer uses.
Officials say other detainees were kept awake for days, forced to stand for hours or exposed to extreme cold. Human rights groups say none of it should be allowed. Intelligence experts say that would be a mistake.
TOWNSEND: Some of these tools will be rarely used, but it doesn’t mean you don’t want to have them for that rare instance where your experts and advisers tell you that it might be effective in thwarting a plot and saving American lives.
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They are really really afraid of facing up to their actions concerning torture. To the point of dragging out this disgraced hack and trying to pass her off as an expert.
November 18th, 2008 at 9:50 pmSo, we shouldn't have waterboarded Khalod Sheik Mohammed?
First of all, waterboarding isn't even torture as it is normally defined. Second, had we not waterboarded the mastermind of 9-11, thousands of people would have likely died as the result of the terror plot that was discovered as a result of our lawful interrogation!
There is simply no contest here. If I were President I would have authorized the waterboarding and more. Whatever it took to protect the lives of my fellow citizens.
November 18th, 2008 at 9:53 pmA question:
How many terrorists have we waterboarded. Can anyone answer that question?
November 18th, 2008 at 9:54 pmCNN was either too lazy to find another “intelligence expert,” or they didn’t have any luck finding anyone else to say it’s okay to torture.
Or, you could read "Manufacturing Consent" and understand why the MSM version of news makes little rational sense....
November 18th, 2008 at 9:59 pmA question:
November 18th, 2008 at 10:03 pmHow out of touch with reality is Timmy Vacuous? The reason why we don't know how many Terrorist SUSPECTShave been waterboarded is because the number has been classified by the Crimminal in the White House. Safe to say though, it is probably many.
Jim Wolf359,
Wrong. You failed to see the link posted on a recent thread.
Try again!
November 18th, 2008 at 10:13 pmIs the reich wing now waterboarding their trolls in koolaid? Waterboarding not torture? Only a frigging low life moron scum would say that! Go get some mental help you delusional dipshit.
To the rest of my fellow posters, sorry for the tirade. I try not to sink to that level but this a$$hole touched a nerve.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:14 pmJim Wolf359, TV is WAY out of touch with reality. He is just spewing bullshit he cannot back up as well as having NO CLUE about justice and what this country stands for.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:15 pmJust another example of how the ruling class rules.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:16 pmThanks LV . Appreciate the comment. By the way Tim, what link would that be? Put up or STFU Vacuous.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:17 pmAnother Question (or 2 ) for our resident Torture Advocate.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:24 pm1-Why isn't Waterboarding torture as is normally defined?
2-Do you have personal experince that informs your statement about the technique Tim? Please enlighten us if you do.
3-If the answer(s) is either no or not forthcoming, would you plese crawl back into your hole and not bother us again?
shouldn't these bush flunkies be unemployed? for poor job performance, if nothing else. lying about how great bush was doesn't work anymore.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:29 pmThat's just the officail number......so do you have a point? Are you going to tell us that one is ok or two is ok or 10,000 is ok?
November 18th, 2008 at 10:34 pmTim Vaculik Says:
As usual you are completely full of it.
So, we shouldn’t have waterboarded Khalod Sheik Mohammed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No tortue is evil. If you have to torture someone to save my life let me die. I would rather keep our National integrity which you obviously care NOTHING about.
First of all, waterboarding isn’t even torture as it is normally defined.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pure baloney. An out and out lie. It was toture when it was used during the Spanish inquisitions it was torture when we sentenced a Japanese officer to prison for doing it to OUR soldiers during the second world war. NOW you want to redefine it because you have no decency.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/04/AR2006100402005_pf.html
Twenty-one years earlier, in 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.
"Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor," Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) told his colleagues last Thursday during the debate on military commissions legislation. "We punished people with 15 years of hard labor when waterboarding was used against Americans in World War II," he said.
YOU are a liar and a fool.
Second, had we not waterboarded the mastermind of 9-11, thousands of people would have likely died as the result of the terror plot that was discovered as a result of our lawful interrogation!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No evidence this is true. Even the CIA said some of the info we got from him was unreliable (same source)
Inside the CIA, waterboarding is cited as the technique that got Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the prime plotter of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, to begin to talk and provide information -- though "not all of it reliable," a former senior intelligence official said.
In fact we KNOW that what he told us about Saddam working with AQ to make ricin gas was bogus.
There is simply no contest here. If I were President I would have authorized the waterboarding and more. Whatever it took to protect the lives of my fellow citizens.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Then you are disgusting and would deserve to go to prison for warcrimes. You have no way of knowing that normal interregation techniques would not work we DO know they will say anything to stop the torture. We didnt torture Nazis during WW2. In fact interegators said they got their BEST information by establishing rapport with their prisoners. They are defined by what THEY do WE are defined by what WE do. We will NOT overcome evil by becoming evil and the fact YOU have no decency doesnt mean America wants to be a country with no decency. We could have won the war with Iraq very quickly by just nuking them but there are somethings that come at too high a cost. YOU dont care because you are a disgusting soulless brainwashed moron.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:35 pmTim Vaculik Says:
A question:
How many terrorists have we waterboarded. Can anyone answer that question?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Absolutly TOO MANY. Because torturing ONE person is too many. I dont know the exact number AND NEITHER DO YOU.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:36 pmDid we not prosecute Japanese military officers and convict them of torture because the waterboarded? It is our shame we resorted to torture. Plus, human beings will say anything to get the torture to stop. Waterboarding produces very unreliable information that also not admissible in a court of law. And it is against the Geneva Conventions. Who trusts a country that tortures?
November 18th, 2008 at 10:36 pmThose that advocate torture are traitors.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:37 pmO.K., which of the following would you folks consider to be torture?
1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.
2. Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.
3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.
4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.
5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.
6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Well assuming I did any of them to your kid, what would you say Tim?
November 18th, 2008 at 10:41 pmTorture is listening to some sick phuck try and justify the use of torture.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:42 pmreading past your inane posts.........not interested in a discussion of what makes up torture.....take off your nazi helmet and go to bed.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:42 pmAs usual, the resident bomb-thrower has me in his sights. Well, I think that people who would rule out enhanced interrogation techniques under any circumstances are simple-minded fools.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:45 pm15 years hard labor....if it was good enough for the Japanese it ought to be good enough for us.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:46 pmThe answer is we subjected THREE terrirists to waterboarding. Three.
Three and you ninnys think the sky is falling!
November 18th, 2008 at 10:48 pmTimmy's scared and he wants to hurt somebody.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:48 pmWas the treatment given to some prisoners at Abu Ghraib torture?
November 18th, 2008 at 10:50 pmSo I guess it's ok for our adversaries to torture out guys...they wouldn't want someone to call them ninnys.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:50 pmI never advocated torture. The question is what constitutes torture.
Despite some of you folks having firmly made up your minds, there are still differences of opinion in the intelligence community, among our representatives, within the government, and amongst the public at large.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:50 pmMeant to add to my last post: We lose all legal standing in the Civilized World when we condone that which we ourselves oppose. And that Civilized World includes the Middle East.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:51 pmNo more episodes of 24 for you, Little Mister.
How to Tell Your Party Is Dead:
November 18th, 2008 at 10:51 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qi4ezdmO08
Not in the legal world, Tim. and yes, you are an advocate of torture.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:52 pmJim Wolf359,
By what definition is the "middle east" part of the civilized world? Some parts are, bur even so-called modern countries over there are barbaric by any standard of civilized societies.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:53 pmI wonder if this a$$clown troll is even posting from the US? He does not appear to be able to grasp the concept of torture being evil. What a depraved low life. Seek help you sick bastard.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:54 pmDid CNN vet their Homeland Security expert? What expert does a Hurricane Katrina Lessons Learned report and omits the hospital with the highest patient death toll post landfall? Frances Townsend did.
LifeCare Hospital lost 24 patients. The Carlyle Group purchased LifeCare Hospitals just weeks before Katrina struck. No mention in the several hundred page report.
Tenet Healthcare owned Memorial Hospital. LifeCare rented a floor of the hospital for their long term acute care unit. Tenet lost an additional 12 patients. No mention in the several hundred page report.
George W. Bush served on the board of Carlyle affiliate CaterAir in the early 90's. His brother Jeb landed a spot on Tenet's board in the last year.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:56 pmDoes waterboarding cause long-term effects to the health? Can waterboarding cause death?
November 18th, 2008 at 10:56 pmFran Townsend is a Bushie and hardly qualified for anything other than worshiping the ground that W stands on.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:57 pmYou're the only one pushing this foolish notion and as usual the republican insists on the high road as he hurts people and rationalizes it.
No there is not. Only the imperialists who just got shown the door for.....well, being fools think that brutality is a positive charactor nuance.
You are a member of a dying breed of people who consistantly make the world a worse place to live.......
Take a seat in the back of the room and just listen for a while. You might learn something. You definatly have shown us how not to do things....
November 18th, 2008 at 10:57 pmLiberalVoter,
So what is torture in your book, bub?
I live in a Red state, how's that?
November 18th, 2008 at 10:57 pmI agree that true torture is evil and I would never condone it.
Torture like Saddam and his sons practiced for example.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:58 pmI see Tim keeps asking questions. Guess he can't answer them himself.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:59 pmYou do not understand what torture is so there is no point in explaining it to you, bub. Just how did you damage your frontal lobes so as not to be able to tell right from wrong?
November 18th, 2008 at 10:59 pmIs Tim Vaculik actually a real person? Is it some sort of satirical joke??? If you are in fact a human being and not a fictional character in some sort if elaborate prank then I must ask, are you an employee of some government or political entity.....I am just trying to explore possibilities other than the obvious fact that you are a severe sociopath...I'm sorry, that's an out-dated term. You suffer acute anti-social personality disorder. Self preservation is above all other priorities and values right, Timmy? I seem to remember reading something about self preservation being the highest law in some sort of text........does anyone else know what that text is?
November 18th, 2008 at 11:00 pmFran sits on Bush's Intelligence Advisory Board. She was appointed for her ability to agree with "such a man".
November 18th, 2008 at 11:00 pmFred,
So what can I learn from a bunch of panty-waisted girly men like I see here?
Ohhh, ohhh, we should put our own President in jail for WAR CRIMES!!!
You folks are the sick ones. Truly sick and demented.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:00 pmTim. Are they are they not toture when I inflict them upon your loved ones? Just answer the question.
May I remind you that your integrity is only reflected in your inner honesty
November 18th, 2008 at 11:00 pmWhat is the definition of is? There is much debate so go ahead and torture. Forget the Geneva Conventions. Throw away the last shreds of USA respectability for a bit of coerced unreliable, unlawful shaky information.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:02 pmDoesn't sound very patriotic to me.
dhed317,
I'm a conservative living in a Red state. I am a well-adjusted, highly educated professional.
I do not condone torture, but I am in favor of using enhanced interrogation techniques WHEN WARRANTED.
I'm for squeezing every last ounce of quality intelligence from any terrorist under our control whether it be at Club Gitmo or elswhere.
These terrorists seem to have a lot of friends on this blog. I'm not one of them.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:04 pmOh I see...our torture good, their torture bad.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:05 pmdhed317,
"...acute anti-social personality disorder"
So your a psychiatrist who can diagnose people you've never even met? Are YOU a real person?
November 18th, 2008 at 11:06 pmTim Vaculik Says:
There isnt any QUESTION that waterboarding is torture. No QUESTION it is a warcrime which is why WE put Japanese officers in prison for doing it to OUR men. The answer to this is simple. Would you be comfortable or OUTRAGED if it were done to YOUR son? What about sodomizing them with chemical lights like happened at Abu Ghraib? If it were YOUR son? The concept of decency isnt that complicated for those of us who are NOT morally retarded.
As for each example here is what torture is according to the Convention against torture
For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
They shouldnt be beaten. They should be treated as we would want OUR soldiers to be treated and make no mistake the way our soldiers WILL be treated could easily be determined by how WE treat our prisoners. Fighting the al Queda types is not likely to be the ONLY kind of war we ever fight again.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:06 pmAnd you are a climate scinetist?
November 18th, 2008 at 11:06 pmTroll, try using your internet connection for looking up the following the following:
1. U.S. Constitution (HINT http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html)
November 18th, 2008 at 11:06 pm2. Geneva Convention (HINT http://www.genevaconventions.org/)
3. A primer on how to debate
Well the likelihood of you being a climate scinetist is as likely as that of you being a climate scientist...
November 18th, 2008 at 11:07 pmreading your posts...
You want to talk about the title of the thread? Why are the bushies dodging the issue of torture for all they are worth now? Why are they trying to get others to say it was ok?
Answer and discuss that or go get some more cheetoes and go to bed little one.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:09 pmIt might interest you folks to know that our own military get subjected to waterboarding so they will know how to cope with it. Most of them would tell you it is very unpleasant, but hardly the big deal you folks make out of it.
If it were truly torture, why would our military use it as a training technique on their own people?
November 18th, 2008 at 11:09 pmWhat is the "Inhanced interrogation techniques" bullcrap? Its TORTURE and it does not provide reliable information. It destroys the credibility of the USA. Anybody advocating for these banned techniques is not a friend of the USA.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:09 pmBush and Cheney could use 15 years of hard labor. The error of their ways might sink in in that amount of time.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:10 pmTim Vaculik Says:
As usual, the resident bomb-thrower has me in his sights. Well, I think that people who would rule out enhanced interrogation techniques under any circumstances are simple-minded fools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Considering I would have to get a lobotomy to be HALF as stupid as you that just doesnt mean much to me. Not ONLY are you ignorant you also dont have a single shred of decency. I read your other posts where you called us morons and incredibly ignorant but you are now WHINING about me throwing bombs. Why do cons as stupid as you think that ONLY you ought to be able to call US names but when we treat YOU the way you treat US it is somehow being SO mean and out of bounds. I guess I can add hypocrite to the list along with stupendously ignorant and stupid beyond all comprehension.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:11 pmFred,
Well, I'm trying to stay on topic. What Townsend said was true. It's also true that there are professionals withing the intelligence community and the military that want the techniques available to them if they believe the need to use them is justified, then approved on a case by case basis.
Where's the beef?
November 18th, 2008 at 11:11 pmHow to win an election and put people like you out to pasture.....heh.
Getting to feelin kinda tuff are we? I think you're a bluff behind a screen. Really a pussy to make statements like that on a blog.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:12 pmWaterboarding is outlawed by the Geneva Conventions to which our Country is a Signator as well as an advocate of. That is until the Crimminal in the White House decided to tear it up along with our Constitution.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:13 pmFred,
I try not to touch the Cheetos this late...
I will, however have that last glass of wine.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:14 pmQuick everyone, put on your jammies, grab the cheetos, and head for mom's basement - Timmy's here! Flee, flee, we are all in danger.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:14 pmTim Vaculik Says:
The answer is we subjected THREE terrirists to waterboarding. Three.
Three and you ninnys think the sky is falling!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:15 pm<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
And morons like YOU think we ought to take the Bush administrations word just because they admit to THIS many that is all? How many did we send to OTHER countries with the express understanding they BE tortured? What proof do you have that these three are terrorists has this been established in a court of law or is the rule of law now defunct along with all standards of decency. Suppose one of those three were your SON, would you be willing to take one for the team. You are a real peice of white hot ignorance Timmeh, that is certain.
Calling us "panty-waisted girly men" when you're the one so scared you're willing to sell out the moral standing of your country. Wow.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:15 pmJim Wolf359,
Enemy combatants of the terrorist variety are not entitled to be treated as P.O.W.'s subject to the Geneva Conventions.
They are just lucky we do it anyway! I hear the Culturally appropriate meals at Club Gitmo are realy fabulous.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:16 pmLiberalVoter,
Your a funny guy! (?) Thanks for the laugh! I have been smiling throughout the entire session, but it's great to see SOME people here still have a sense of humor!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:18 pmTim Vaculik Says:
I agree that true torture is evil and I would never condone it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
You are a liar and a fool you HAVE condoned it
Torture like Saddam and his sons practiced for example.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is among the most ignorant of all the braindead talking points that demented propaganda parrots like YOU have ever tried. So the fact that people have done WORSE things means its ok to do just BAD things? Why do we even arrest murderers? They could just say they werent as bad as Timmothy McViegh or the BTK killer. I guess embezzlement shouldnt be criticized because its not as bad as murder. You really are a moron Timmeh. I expect MORE of MY country than saying Well we have joined the evil doers club but we arent as bad as Saddam or his sons. Since you dont have a shred of decency I guess you dont really get this obvious and simple concept.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:19 pmAlright. Let's quite f ucking around. Tim Valucik is a fraud. No normal person could claim such awkward and goofy ideas.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:19 pm15 years hard labor.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:19 pmThis is how they tried to rationalize it but it failed. Torture is one reason the republicans were run out of DC.
You guys have many ways to rationalize brutality against helpless humans but it has been exposed for the vile act that it is......
November 18th, 2008 at 11:20 pmTim Vaculik Says:
It might interest you folks to know that our own military get subjected to waterboarding so they will know how to cope with it. Most of them would tell you it is very unpleasant, but hardly the big deal you folks make out of it.
If it were truly torture, why would our military use it as a training technique on their own people?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
WOW even for YOU that is really stupid. Do you REALLY think there is no difference between a training excersice where you KNOW they arent going to hurt you and a situation where they CAN kill you if they want and since they are the enemy MIGHT kill you? Your stupidity the whole hog of cretinism
November 18th, 2008 at 11:20 pmAh, I see Tim, your channeling Rush Limpballs. Explains alot their. Especially your ignorance and stupidity.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:21 pmHey Tim.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:21 pmTell us about you climate expetise again...
kooky...
Bush/Chenney adminiatration are guilty of War Crimes and should be held accountable for them. They should face execution. That is if the USA is serious about regaining its international image, if not, just let them walk away and work for FOX.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:23 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Timmy says his preacher told him it was ok to torture certain people.....
November 18th, 2008 at 11:23 pmdbadass, agreed. The troll is just using up bandwidth. Time to ignore it.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:23 pmjb,
O.K., I get the point you and others are making. But I have to ask whether you really think our moral standing has been compromised or is it closer to the truth to say that it's simply an unfounded assertion that this is so?
Look at what our country does for people all over the globe. We are in many cases the ONLY nation that stands up for the oppressed in this world. We are the fist on scene for disasters, first with the aid, first with the money, etc.
I am suggesting that those who are already ashamed of their country, who denigrate it at every turn, are the ones who think our "moral" underpinnings have been compromised!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:24 pmAgain, the beauty of the enemy NOT knowing what you might subject him to is invaluable!
Maybe waterboarding is no longer of any use because the extensive media coverage has resulted in everyone except those living in caves to know that you can't DIE from being subjected to it!!!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:25 pmJim Wolf359,
I never listen to Rush's show.
Nice try.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:26 pmAw comon guys, I'm enjoying reminding timmy of how his little facist empire has crumbled and how irrelivant he has become now that intelligent people are in charge......
I like to see him squirm in his own fecal matter while rationalizing brutality.
I've put many a young bully in his place and this one isn't even a challenge.....he's pathetic really.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:27 pmFred,
Thet's funny, you haven't put forth any refutation of what I've been saying...
Should I just be able to SENSE your brilliance and superior intellect?
November 18th, 2008 at 11:28 pmIt takes more than praising jeebus and throwing a few dollars here and there to have moral standing. I'm glad you agree that torture denigrates our country at every turn.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:28 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Was the treatment given to some prisoners at Abu Ghraib torture?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Of COURSE it was when they were sodomized by chemical lights or had their genitals shocked as Taguba reported that was torture lets see what REPUBLICAN Senator Lindsey Graham and Donald Rumsfeld said about the photos WE have never seen from Abu Ghraib
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/08/iraq/main616338.shtml
Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told reporters, "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. we're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience."
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/07/iraq.abuse.main/index.html
Rumsfeld told Congress the unrevealed photos and videos contain acts "that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman."
Appologies for torture make my skin crawl. You dont have an ounce of decency and are a disgusting piece of filth
November 18th, 2008 at 11:28 pmFred, have at him. Enjoy yourself. :-)
November 18th, 2008 at 11:29 pmMaybe they were just stories, but I remember hearing how Nazi troops surrendered willingly to US forces because they KNEW they would be treated humanely.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:29 pmI wish I would have started a log with all the personal comments that have been thrown my way since I lannded here!
I can just see all of them strung together in one Looonnnnnggg paragraph! Funny in the extreme!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:30 pmCNN is just embarrassing. I've met Ted Turner and chatted with him and he wouldn't tolerate the crap on here now. It's not news anymore, it's Fox Lite.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:32 pmThat's right Tim, these colors don't run.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:32 pmTimmy, we have done no such things.....death and destruction have followed where the republicans have lead us abroad.
perfect example......the fools errand of bringing democracy to Iraq.....what a cost and it will be a shiite sectarian suedo democracy as Egypt is.....allying with Iran....way to go brownie....
Need I mention Iran contra where the republicans helped the facist government defeat the nationalist gurilla's......
How about columbia.......a facist state next door to Venesuala, a leftist nation that has the same ideals and values as most Americans truth be told.
etc......
You're a loser timmy....with a losers mentality.
You know when everyone in the world is disagreeing with you it might behoove you to reconsider your undesirable position.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:32 pmSince when did the news become largely jingoistic propaganda?
November 18th, 2008 at 11:32 pmTim Vaculik Says:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred,
So what can I learn from a bunch of panty-waisted girly men like I see here?
Ohhh, ohhh, we should put our own President in jail for WAR CRIMES!!!
You folks are the sick ones. Truly sick and demented.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
OOOH an internet toughguy. It take so much courage for one of the 101 fighting keyboard commandos to talk about how WE arent tough because we have a shred of decency and dont want people tortured. You arent tough. You are a coward. In insignificant weasel with a yellow streak a mile wide. Hiding under mommys bed snivelling. Torture , maim do anything to save me from the scary turban guys. WWWWAAAHHHHH please keep me safe WWWWWAAAHHHHHHHH I dont care what laws you have to break or standards of decency you have to ignore just keep me safe WWWWWWAAAAHHHHH and by the way anyone who doesnt agree is a girlyman. You are the very definition of a PUNK Timmeh. No guts, no brains, no decency. How can you live with yourself? Do the world a favor take one of those guns you are so crazy about and make the world a better place by going into your garage and doing the right thing.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:33 pmjb,
You are exactly correct. The enemy on the battle fields of the world still do that today. Witness the first Gulf War.
I think people forget just how professional and morally upright our fighting forces are. Sure, there are instances of abuse and worse, but they are the exception, not the rule.
So while we are on the subject of our nation's MORAL standing, how could we have justified the wide-scale firebombing of Axis cities during WWII?
Wasn't that a heinous crime against humanity?
November 18th, 2008 at 11:36 pmOh god, the whining and playing the vicim start now......how predictable.
This is a discussion about something pretty serious and you can't take it seriously. What does that say about you? That you are part of the problem that we just put behind us, thankfully.
See, your kind don't get any input anymore......Americans rejected you and your hate....
November 18th, 2008 at 11:37 pmTim Vaculik Says:
These terrorists seem to have a lot of friends on this blog. I’m not one of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
YOU are the only friend the terrorists HAVE on this blog. Only cowards like YOU are helping them. THEY have no ability to defeat us militarily. They need to recruit people to do horrific things and to do that they have to paint us as monsters. Inhuman cruel beasts like you would have us act. See your astonishing stupidity plays right into the hands of terrorists. Osama gives thanks every night to Allah for morons like YOU
November 18th, 2008 at 11:37 pmDid I justify what occurred at Abu Ghraib? No.
Did I ask a simple questio? Yes.
Someone needs to take their meds...
November 18th, 2008 at 11:38 pmWe are the only nation to have used nuclear weapons. The world has not forgotten or forgiven.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:39 pmjb,
O.K., so was it immoral to have used the ultimate weapon on Japan?
How can we call ourselves a moral nation since we are the only nation to have done this?
November 18th, 2008 at 11:40 pmAn oldie but a good one:
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:42 pmBenjamin Franklin - one of the Founding Fathers
Tim Vaculik Says:
Jim Wolf359,
Enemy combatants of the terrorist variety are not entitled to be treated as P.O.W.’s subject to the Geneva Conventions.
They are just lucky we do it anyway! I hear the Culturally appropriate meals at Club Gitmo are realy fabulous.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As usual you show just how ignorant you are Timmeh. An AMERICAN got a brain injury POSING as an Arab at Gitmo. An FBI agent DESCRIBED what he saw going on there TORTURE TECHNIQUES. He was mad that the DOD was POSING as the FBI to do them and was afraid THEY would be blamed. You are ignorant Timmeh. Ignorant and without decency. Hang your head in shame if you have the capacity for such an emotion. You are disgusting.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:44 pmAnyone who thinks that terrorists are created by actions we take is living in the land of denial.
Islamic extremists, "Islamofascists" if you will need NO excuse whatsoever to hate us. In fact, they consider us infidels by the mere fact we are not Muslims.
Some of you need to read up on your history about Islam. You can start with the Crusades and why the Christian Nations of Europe had to act against the Muslims in that age.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:44 pmBoy that's a definative statement.....
Basically yes, you have. Do you really think it was a few loose cannons? No, rummy sanctioned it.......
November 18th, 2008 at 11:45 pmTim Vaculick says:
Fist. Nice Freudian panties, dude.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:47 pmFor one thing we can not torture. For another we can not initiate unjust wars of aggression. We can live by our laws, starting with the Constitution. What happened to Habeas Corpus? Does a moral USA have a Gulag like Gitmo and other black sites? We got a long ways to go to reach moral high ground and we seem to be losing.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:47 pmoh boy, here comes a history written by timmy lesson.
one word...Israel. Now I'm done with your foolishness.
timmy, get some help would ya. You're a sick, sick fella.
remember, we're all in this together and I'm pullin for ya but you got to get up off your ass and quit pretending that you know stuff......it makes ya look really pathetic.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:49 pmTim Vaculik Says:
jb,
O.K., I get the point you and others are making. But I have to ask whether you really think our moral standing has been compromised or is it closer to the truth to say that it’s simply an unfounded assertion that this is so?
Look at what our country does for people all over the globe. We are in many cases the ONLY nation that stands up for the oppressed in this world. We are the fist on scene for disasters, first with the aid, first with the money, etc.
I am suggesting that those who are already ashamed of their country, who denigrate it at every turn, are the ones who think our “moral” underpinnings have been compromised!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My GOD you get stupider and stupider WE ARE TORTURING people how is that NOT going to hurt our moral standing as for the good we HAVE done how is that relevant? Do you think when you do GOOD things you get a chit that you can turn in to make you immune from criticism for doing EVIL THINGS? I am suggesting that moral cowards, like you that are morally retarded and just expect us to be TREATED as if we are perfect and never deserve criticism are delusional morons who dont CARE if we really ACT like a good nation, you just demand we be SEEN and TREATED like we are a good nation. You are ignorant. The Bush administration is NOT America. We will recover from the shame he has brought on us. We will do so DESPITE moral cowards like you that think Bush IS America and whatever we do is moral because you say so. You are disgusting
November 18th, 2008 at 11:49 pmI'm sure most of you here, especially the really smart ones can tell us all about the theory of "critical mass" regarding the percentage of Muslims in any given society.
There have been thoroughly researched books written on just this aspect of Islam and the effect it has on countries that don't keep it under control.
They don't call it the "REligion of Peace" (tongue in cheek) for nothing! There will be peace all right. The peace that comes with the end of your life if you do not accept and be converted to Islam should the Islamic extremists gain control of your country!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:49 pmChristians have done their fair share of butchery.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:50 pmWill Rogers said he had never met a man he didn't like but he hadn't met timmy
November 18th, 2008 at 11:51 pmFred,
It's good to know it's nothing personal with you.
I'll be checking in at Bill Ayer's re-education camp of the Southwest tomorrow! All expenses paid, of course! Ha!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:51 pmTim Vaculik Says:
I wish I would have started a log with all the personal comments that have been thrown my way since I lannded here!
I can just see all of them strung together in one Looonnnnnggg paragraph! Funny in the extreme!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Are you whining AGAIN that after calling us girly men, morons, ignorant and all hosts of other things WE are insulting YOU? Let me translate from MORON. WWWWWWAAAAAHHHHHH its so mean when you treat me the way I treat you WWWWWWAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH only us cons get to toss out insults WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH God gave us conservatives the exclusive franchise on personal attacks WWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHh. You do know you are pathetic dont you?
November 18th, 2008 at 11:52 pmFlagged for racism. I had one of your kind tell me that they want to come here to rape our daughters......fear, hate, fear, hate.....sad to be you.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:52 pmNice article: Democracy, human dignity incompatible with torture
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2004401423_neem09.html
Excerpt
Democracy is premised on a simple claim: All people, by virtue of their humanity, are entitled to respect and to be treated with basic dignity. This is why Thomas Jefferson and other Founding Fathers believed that all people are born equal and have the same natural rights.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:53 pmMaybe it's not too late to start cutting and pasting...
November 18th, 2008 at 11:53 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Did I justify what occurred at Abu Ghraib? No.
Did I ask a simple questio? Yes.
Someone needs to take their meds…
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Sorry Timmeh. Meds will do you no good. There is no MED for stupid and there is no med for the loss of your soul or your decency. You are out of luck. Please. The point of asking if what happened at Abu Ghraib was torture WHILE arguing for torture was WHAT again? Gotta remember Timmeh, we arent as stupid as you.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:54 pmSo scared of the brown Muslims....willing to pi$$ on our country.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:54 pmjb,
C'mon, now. Club Gitmo a gulag?
Oh well, not to worry. The annointed on e has stated it will be closed anyway. Just think, some of who are lucky might get to host a few of the detainees as our guests!
I promise to be nice. heh, heh, heh...
November 18th, 2008 at 11:55 pmFred,
You dope! Islam isn't a RACE... Good Lord, what have you been smokin?
November 18th, 2008 at 11:58 pmThe self made man:
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.
All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer’s medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too.
He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.
In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.
Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air.
He walks on the government-provided sidewalk to subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.
Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union.
If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn’t think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.
It is noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.
Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe also forgets that his in addition to his federally subsidized student loans, he attended a state funded university.
Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards to go along with the tax-payer funded roads.
He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers’ Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans.
The house didn’t have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification.
He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to.
Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn’t mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: “We don’t need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I’m a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have.”
November 18th, 2008 at 11:58 pmTim Vaculik Says:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jb,
You are exactly correct. The enemy on the battle fields of the world still do that today. Witness the first Gulf War.
I think people forget just how professional and morally upright our fighting forces are. Sure, there are instances of abuse and worse, but they are the exception, not the rule.
So while we are on the subject of our nation’s MORAL standing, how could we have justified the wide-scale firebombing of Axis cities during WWII?
Wasn’t that a heinous crime against humanity?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It was what was being done by both sides at the time. The argument COULD be made but Colonia, was the same as Dresden. London bombings werent much different than Tokyo. NOBODY but soulless morons like YOU are advocating TORTURE today.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:58 pmI'm sure you would not mind an indefinite stay in GITMO whether you did anything or were just turned in for a bounty. No legal process...just a pen with culturally appropriate chow. Just the place for a fun loving guy like yourself Tim.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:59 pmFred, are you a Red Green fan?
"remember, we’re all in this together and I’m pullin for ya"
November 18th, 2008 at 11:59 pmcopy and paste can work both ways....from your own ignorant mouth:
November 19th, 2008 at 12:00 am
Fred,
WTF, dude. You are not making any sense.
The reference to Islam being the "Religion of Peace" is right on. Read the Koran for starters.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:01 amFred,
I don't have a problem with Muslims practicing their religion, but I'll never acquiesce to the destruction of our society by the infiltration of Sharia Law, etc..
Look at what's happening already! Foot washing stations at airports!!! What the hell. What comes next?
Oh yeah, calls to prayer over LOUDSPEAKERS in Hamtramick, Michigan for instance.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:01 amYeah and road rage is caused by Billy Graham bumper stickers.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:01 amTim Vaculik Says:
I am sure you can tell us about all sorts of Academic support for bigotry. Can you say Bell Curve? Islam is not the problem and only the truly ignorant like YOU want a holy war with Islam. They call it the religion of peace because the word Islam MEANS peace. You really are ignorant you do know that dont you? Before you tell me it means submission like the good little propaganda parrot you are no it doesnt it means THE PEACE that comes from submission to God which is a form of peace not a form of submission in Semetic languages when the consonants of a word are the same it is because they have the same root like SaLaaM, peace and iSLaM peace. My GOD you are stupid
November 19th, 2008 at 12:02 amyep.......a lot more fun than playing tiddley winks with tim the basement nazi.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:05 amjb,
We've repatriated hundreds from Gitmo as of months ago. Most of the ones who remain are such bad actors that we can't even release them to their native countries.
I don't have to take a vacation to Gitmo because I'm an American citizen, not an enemy combatant.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:06 amFran's White House record is clear for even CNN to find.
She's currently a member of the President's Intelligence Advisory Board.
She was on vacation as Hurricane Katrina approached the U.S. Gulf Coast. Bush put his Homeland Security Adviser on a plane to Saudi Arabia while the last hospital patients were fished out of dead facilities, nearly five days after landfall.
She omitted the hospital with the highest death toll from her investigative report. The Carlyle Group's LifeCare Hospitals must be grateful.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:06 amTim is deeply insulted by those fish signs on the passing cars. He will never stand for such imposition.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:07 amjb,
We've repatriated hundreds from Gitmo as of months ago. Most of the ones who remain are such bad actors that we can't even release them to their native countries.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:07 amtimmy.....from the article.
The same intelligence experts that said sadam had WMD's......aint that a kick?
ps we have new guys.....some with some actual intelligence experience.....rest easy. Remember, 911 happened while these so called intelligence experts were on the job.....
November 19th, 2008 at 12:09 amThat was big of us.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:09 amTim Vaculik Says:
Anyone who thinks that terrorists are created by actions we take is living in the land of denial.
Islamic extremists, “Islamofascists” if you will need NO excuse whatsoever to hate us. In fact, they consider us infidels by the mere fact we are not Muslims.
Some of you need to read up on your history about Islam. You can start with the Crusades and why the Christian Nations of Europe had to act against the Muslims in that age.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Timmeh its time to come to grips with the FACT you are bone ignorant. Even the PENTAGON says they hate us because of our policies.
http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2004-09-Strategic_Communication.pdf
'Muslims do not hate our freedom, but rather they hate our policies [the report says]. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the long-standing, even increasing, support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan and the Gulf states. Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy.'
You are so stupid. You think you are educating US by regurgitating the stupidity you were told to think by your Limborg master. You are only showing just how ignorant you are. How little you EVER know what you are talking about.
The STUPID, THE STUPID it hurts my head. The main reason for the Crusades were to get a land route to India for Europe moron. The Crusades were EUROPE invading the ISLAMIC countrys you are SO STUPID. Whatever their self serving excuses it was European expansionism, which was what was going on at the time all the empires were trying to do this I am not saying this makes Europe bad just not the noble liberators. JEWS fought on the SIDE of their Islamic countrymates during the Crusades. YOU actually need to read something other than biased propaganda and stop pretending you get anything but BRAINWASHED from your Am HateRadio brainwashing sessions
November 19th, 2008 at 12:10 amWell, my last post on the topic of the "Religion of Peace" is to make perfectly clear what I mean.
The more extreme practictioners of this religion are nothing more than bloodthirsty savages. They would just as soon slit your throat as look at you and if you think you are going to reason with them, then you go for it. I'm bringing an AR-15.
One last thing. They have every justification for the things they do... it's right there in their Koran.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:12 amOne last recommendation for those of you who seem to promote reading.
Go read about the Muslin invasion and occupation of Christian European nations prior to the Crusades. Start with Spain.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:14 amDamn. The Tim troll is a whiny-assed titty baby, with a hard-on for some torture.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:15 amTim Vaculik Says:
Fred,
WTF, dude. You are not making any sense.
The reference to Islam being the “Religion of Peace” is right on. Read the Koran for starters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I HAVE read the Koran have YOU? For instance I HAVE read where it says that people of the book, that is Jews and Christians have nothing to fear from Allah on judgement day if they are good people and beleive in judgement I have read where it says some people of the book are of good character and others are liars and cheats. There is some pretty violent imagry there but have you read the Old Testament pretty much the same thing. Let me guess you HAVENT read the Koran have you. You read cherry picked out of context passages from some rightwing hatesite, RIGHT? You really are an idiot Timmeh.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:15 amhey timmy, those same intelligence experts said we could defeat al kaeda by hitting them in Iraq........they weren't there......ain't that a kick.
Not only that but they have reconstituted stronger and better funded than ever along the pakistan/afgan border.......
who could have predicted that? Oh yeah......everybody except the bush admin and thier "intelligence experts"
bin laden said after 911 that he would lure bush into a war and bankrupt America.....
Guess what, you could find bin laden right now by going to the cave where the champaign is being delivered.
Are you happy yet timmy?
November 19th, 2008 at 12:16 amTim Vaculik Says:
Well, my last post on the topic of the “Religion of Peace” is to make perfectly clear what I mean.
The more extreme practictioners of this religion are nothing more than bloodthirsty savages. They would just as soon slit your throat as look at you and if you think you are going to reason with them, then you go for it. I’m bringing an AR-15.
One last thing. They have every justification for the things they do… it’s right there in their Koran.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No there isnt you are a liar and a fool. Yeah many of the nutbags are savages. When you try to turn Islam itself into the problem is where you show what a moron you are.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:17 amFred,
Your reading assignment is to learn about National Socialism and to understand what the term "Nazi" really refers to.
Read up of Fascism while you are at it.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:19 amTimmeh you are an ignorant disgusting piece of the primoridal ooze of the first stupid. Even the Pentagon says they hate us for our POLICIES. You want a holy war but one that since you are a cowardly PUNK someone else will fight while you hide snivelling and whimpering from under your mommys bed. You are without decency and without a functioning cerebral cortex. I pity anyone that ever has to be in your pathetic presence
November 19th, 2008 at 12:21 amOh please, Tim troll, tell us all about the National Socialists.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:22 amHelp me out here Timothy...
Are you afraid of the liberal leftists Socialist terrorists, or the fundamental Islamo-facists?
Don't you think if we get a critical mass of both, they would kind of cancel each other out? Like Kryptonite and anti-Kryptonite...
But seriously, why would you want to be on the side of the torturing bastards that set us up to be so hated, therefore to be potential victims of terrorism? Don't you see that they only have that power because you let them?
If a person has to hurt another person to get what they want, then that person loses the moral right to get what they want. You learn that in kindergarten, but apparently you had the measles that week.
It must suck to be so morally bankrupt. I feel really sorry for you to be so stuck in that lower plane. Hope you wise up someday. Change is in the air, after all.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:24 amAt least when I read it is without bias and I also read for comprehension. Maybe you could take a reading comprehension class and then try again.........it couldn't hurt....just sayin.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:24 amTim Vaculik Says:
Fred,
Your reading assignment is to learn about National Socialism and to understand what the term “Nazi” really refers to.
Read up of Fascism while you are at it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well of course Mr STUPID, who never knows what he is talking about and just repeats the talking point of the week as is his hivemind assignment goes to the Nazis were leftys. A paricularly IGNORANT talking point but there is NOTHING to stupid for Timmeh to repeat. I dont have to read up on anything because I KNOW that Nazis put REAL socialists and communists in concentration camps right next to homosexuals and gays. I have READ the rightwing agenda in the form of the 14 points of Fascism. You are one truly ignorant and brainwashed imbecile Timmeh.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:25 amOnce again, I will simply state an undeniable truth.
Islamic extremists are RELIGIOUS extremists. They do the things they do because they believe (correctly I think) that their religion directs them to do so.
The precepts found in the Koran, Sharia Law, Fatwas, etc. are no accident! There's one thing you have to give the extremists credit for, and that is that they are totally committed to what they perceive is God's law, God's direction to them personally.
Anyone who takes the time to read and really study Islam and all of its manifestations will conclude that Western, Christian societies ignore it at their peril.
Take some time and start reading what the Islamists say themselves at:
http://www.memri.org
Oh, stupid me! I FORGOT! I'm too stupid to know anything!
November 19th, 2008 at 12:26 amTimmy, a person showing symptoms of an anti-social personality disorder see's himself as somehow superior to others and can be counted on to value his own safety and rights above those of other regardless of the cost. This person may view other peoples basic human rights simply as obstacles. This person lacks empathy in any form and any kindness that he may show others will almost always have a hidden agenda. This person fails to identify with others. Does this sound familiar? Do we do unto others as the would do\have unto us? OR do we treat all with compassion and dignity as human being NOT unlike us I assume Mr. Timmy red state conservative is a man of Christian faith, most likely Evangelist. Did I hit that one on the nose also Timmy?" Have you forgotten that Christianity is the way of compassion? Did you miss the ENTIRE point of the crucifixion? Why is it that Christian values spew forth in the political forum on topics like gay marriage and abortion but never on issues of compassion and human rights? How do you determine which values to adhere to and which to reject. There comes a time when you must choose a side and draw a line in the sand. I am loathe to use words like good and evil as they are dualistic, misleading and often destructive once all cards are played, but at times it becomes necessary. You have to choose. You cannot cherry pick your values or shift your ideals to suite a certain situation or as you feel may be convenient or they become meaningless. We have to ask do we want to be better, worse or the same. Do we want to add additional embarrassing chapters in the book of American history. Don't you remember how you felt as a child learning about some of our nation darker moments? Would you not like to think we have moved passed that crap? Once we have obtained useful information via questionable tactics shall we resurrect lynch mob justice? Of course that is ridiculous but how ridiculous is it? Where is the line in the sand? If we bend a little now how far will we bend next time? Changing and redefining words has no change on reality....thing about it Timmy
November 19th, 2008 at 12:26 amFred Says:
hey timmy, those same intelligence experts said we could defeat al kaeda by hitting them in Iraq……..they weren’t there……ain’t that a kick.
Not only that but they have reconstituted stronger and better funded than ever along the pakistan/afgan border…….
who could have predicted that? Oh yeah……everybody except the bush admin and thier “intelligence experts”
bin laden said after 911 that he would lure bush into a war and bankrupt America…..
Guess what, you could find bin laden right now by going to the cave where the champaign is being delivered.
Are you happy yet timmy?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And if you go to the prayer area of that cave you will find Osama's pin up poster of Georgie Bush. He most likely gives thanks to Allah every night that Bush is a stupid as Timmeh
November 19th, 2008 at 12:27 amtimmy is the kind of guy who used to eat buggers just to gross people out and get attention....any kind of attention, even negative attention.
Timmy: look at me, listen to me, I know stuff, kinda....well at least what I remember from rush on the am radio.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:28 amWe're waiting to be educated about the National Socialists, Tim troll.
Hurry up, we need some learnin'.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:28 amTim Vaculik acknowledges:
I’m too stupid to know anything!
We couldn't agree more, Mr. BSculik.
Now please leave. You're stinking up the place.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:29 amSo is the radical cleric pat robertson, Jerry falwell, etc. you fail to make a point.
Do you know anything about national socialists?
November 19th, 2008 at 12:31 amTim Vaculik Says:
Maybe it’s not too late to start cutting and pasting…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Its clearly too late for you to start THINKING. What with your complete inability for higher brain funciton and all. Just keep repeating what you were TOLD to think. What you do here is the equivelent of vomiting on the message board. You are an ignorant punk
November 19th, 2008 at 12:35 amDamn, I wish Tim would tell us all about the National Socialists. I have such a thirst for knowledge...
November 19th, 2008 at 12:35 amI'd even settle for a Wiki copy & paste...
November 19th, 2008 at 12:37 amYou know, we could outlaw the Koran. And the Bible, and the Torah, and the other various religious books. The world would probably be better off.
But that would be just as fundamentally wrong as those religions are.
Poor Timmy, so terrified for all the wrong reasons.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:37 amSKdeA,
All I'm saying is that the things we do don't cause the Islamic fundamentalists to hate us, they already hate us and have hated us for CENTURIES.
Actually, hate is probably too strong a word. They see themselves as righteous and infidels as unrighteous.
Our tactics may be used as examples for their propaganda, but they would use just about ANYTHING we do or say for their own purposes.
Look, go to http://www.memri.org and read some of the translated articles for yourself! After just a short time it will become apparent to you that these folks lie like DOGS!
The stuff that comes out of the minds of "Islamic Scholars" is breathtaking. Some of it is just pure evil, but a lot of it just makes one laugh. Of course, you can only laugh until you realize the uneducated Muslim masses are lapping this anti-American, anti-Semetic vitriol up like it was a hearty soup.
In fact, it's a toxic soup made up of outright lies about the West and what kind of people we really are.
Go read and learn.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:37 amTim?
Hello? Is this thing on...?
November 19th, 2008 at 12:37 amDon't drink the paste, Zooey. It tastes bad.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:38 amZooey,
Did you actually say something? I think not.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:38 amFred,
Funny how there have been no incidents of Christian fundamentalists committing murder in the name of Jesus!
November 19th, 2008 at 12:39 amOh well, Tim is too busy pissing his sweatpants, and hiding under his dripping bed.
I sure wish I could get some edumakation on the National Socialists!
November 19th, 2008 at 12:41 am# 2 & 3 Tim Vaculik
you have fallen prey to the terrorist right hate America machine. WE, US, are the terrorist nation of the world.
And... I do trust the opinions of those around the world as they get the real news.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:42 amAgain, you fail to make a point. The jews feel the same way about us......somehow, we are friends with them.....hmm.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:42 amTim Vaculik Says:
Fred,
Funny how there have been no incidents of Christian fundamentalists committing murder in the name of Jesus!
November 19th, 2008 at 12:39 am
Now that's just funny. Damn, I wish I could stick around for this, but I have a Statistics exam in the AM.
Toodles!
November 19th, 2008 at 12:42 amYes, and don't you see that this will continue, and they will win, because you are doing exactly the same thing?
Where does the cycle of hate end?
Education. Compassion. Treating people with dignity and respecting their autonomy. That will stop the terrorists and not all the torture in the world will.
My America, the real one, doesn't torture. We have to find a better way to win. Otherwise, they have already won.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:42 amEugeneDebs, I disagree with your statement Timmy is logically backward, morally bankrupt and quite possibly insane on a basic level but I truly do not think he is ignorant at all.
It is such pity when an otherwise intelligent individual become hopelessly entrenched antiquated and fundamentally flawed ideas.....but they will go extinct in time along with the other creatures that were unwilling or unable to EVOLVE
November 19th, 2008 at 12:44 amYou clearly ARE too stupid to know anything Timmeh. For instance the MEMRI is a propaganda site with links to Isreali intelligence. In fact it was FOUNDED by a retired Colonel from Isreali intelligence, Yigal Carmon they have an AGENDA that is to scare ignorant punks like YOU. You know NOTHING about the Koran. For instance NO MUSLIM has any obligtion to listen to a Fatwa or any religious leader nor any but his own concience. My GOD you are ignorant. What MEMRI does would be the equivelent of taking quotes from Micheal Savage and Ann Coulter and trying to pass them off as mainstream American media. Now people as ignorant and brainwashed as YOU might think thats reasonable but us normal humans know better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEMRI
Islamic extremists ARE dangerous. Islam is NOT. YOU are a moron all those statements are clearly true. No one is going to forget about al Queda nor the Islamic terrorists. Hopefully they will laugh at morons like YOU that try to equate them with Islam itself. Ben Laden no more speaks for Islam than Jim Jones spoke for Christianity. You really are stupid Timmeh I mean you DO know you arent very good at this dont you?
November 19th, 2008 at 12:44 amNight, Zooey!
November 19th, 2008 at 12:44 amMe too, I have to work early and play two gigs ..
have a nice evening everyone. Even you, Timmie. You make me appreciate nice people so much.
O.K., time for blood pressures to go down... the blog cleaning crew just showed up to clean up the remnants of lost opportunities for learning here.
I'll tip them as I leave...
November 19th, 2008 at 12:45 amChristian extremists want to force Christian laws on the USA. And then use the US military for their own.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:46 amabortion clinic bombings.......try again.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:47 amTim Vaculik Says:
SKdeA,
All I’m saying is that the things we do don’t cause the Islamic fundamentalists to hate us, they already hate us and have hated us for CENTURIES.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yeah that is what you are saying BECAUSE YOU ARE STUPID. Because you dont know ANYTHING that Rush didnt TELL you to know. I already LINKED to a Pentagon study that said DIRECTLY that they hate us for our POLICIES and NO they havent hated us for centuries. The largest Islamic nation in the world is Indonesia a strong ally with us since the 60's. You mistake brainwashing for knowlege and stupidity for wisdom. Your ignorance is palpable and your capcity for self delusion is simply astonishing
November 19th, 2008 at 12:48 amTim Vaculik Says:
SKdeA,
All I’m saying is that the things we do don’t cause the Islamic fundamentalists to hate us, they already hate us and have hated us for CENTURIES.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wow Timmeh. I am impressed. I wouldnt believe it but you have managed the impressive feat of being STUPIDER AND STUPIDER by the post. Ever hear of the INQUISITIONS? Witch burnings? How abot Koresh? Jim Jones? Abortion dr murders? Abortion bombings? You dont expect the religion WITH the political power to spawn the same kind of fantatics as those who feel persecuted for their religion or face political persecution. Then again you wont get this because not only are you ignorant and brainwashed you only believe those things that fit with your delusional fantasies. You are bone ignorant.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:55 amdhed317 Says:
Then we disagree as I think Timmeh is CLEARLY ignorant. Its the old saying. Taint what a man don't know that hurts him; it's what he knows that just ain't so.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:05 amTimmy left hopefully but I find it amusing that he lectures and tells us to read and then makes a statement like the above quote..
guess he has never heard of the crusades or the spanish inquisition just to name a couple.......
bye bye timmy.......get some help dude.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:06 amFred Says:
I find myself wondering what Timmeh would do with a brain if he had one
November 19th, 2008 at 2:27 am.
Fran Townsend said:
.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:19 amNot all of us live in the 24 world...
November 19th, 2008 at 4:41 amMax-1 Says:
Basically he gave us the tickinig time bomb scenario. Has this EVER happened in our history? IF you know enough to KNOW they have such information you already know enough to investigate on your own. Most experts say torture isnt reliable. If you cant trust it then what is the point? The bottom line goes like this. No matter WHAT you do there can always be unintended consequences. IF you go with what is right IF you take the morally correct route and it all goes bad then at least you know that you TRIED TO DO THE RIGHT THING. IF you eschew the morally supportable route and THEN things go sideways then not only did it go bad but you also cant say you at least TRIED to do the right thing then you were unethical AND it blew up in your face. I see no justification for torture. I have heard all the arguments for it and flat out cannot support torture PERIOD.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:43 amImagine a parallel universe in which a Democratic adminstration is caught using waterboarding...
Is there any doubt they would call it torture?
November 19th, 2008 at 6:14 amPerry logan Says:
Imagine a parallel universe in which a Democratic adminstration is caught using waterboarding…
Is there any doubt they would call it torture?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No there is no doubt. There is also no doubt that if it were used against OUR soldiers when THEY were prisoners it would be called torture since WE DID when it was
November 19th, 2008 at 6:56 amOh I see....Tim above will be fine if President Obama started next year rounding up neocons in America and abroad to torture relentlessly or to the death who threaten him and our country. Right Tim? You will stand firm for President Obama in his quest, correct?
Torture "was defined" by Alberto Gonzales as: NOT CAUSING ORGAN FAILURE. So, as of right now, President Obama can, if he chooses to because you neocons are domestic terrorists, he can instruct his people to:
BREAK YOUR ARMS
BREAK YOUR LEGS
BEAT YOU SENSELESS
PULL YOUR FINGERNAILS OFF
WATERBOARD YOU
DRAG YOU BEHIND A TRACTOR
HANG YOU BY YOUR ARMS FOR DAYS
KEEP YOU SLEEP DEPRIVED
TORTURE YOU WITH POWER DRILLS
RAPE YOU WITH A TOILET PLUNGER
HANG YOU BY YOUR FEET FOR DAYS
STRIP YOU NAKED AND LAUGH AT YOU
FEED YOU YOUR OWN FECES
RIP YOUR ARMS OUT OF THEIR SOCKETS
CUT YOUR HANDS OFF
CUT YOUR FEET OFF
SHOW YOU A VIDEO OF YOUR FAMILY BEING TORTURED
You'll be find with this, huh Tim, because you being the true patriot you are, believe that any American president has a right to exhibit such inhumane and illegal treatment of humans who haven't been charged with a crime...just labeled by him/her so he/she can torture you.
Way to go patriot! We'll have to remember your words when President Obama starts rounding up you white supremacist morons!
November 19th, 2008 at 7:16 amFormer White House Homeland Security adviser Fran Townsend. At no point did CNN identify Townsend as a former Bush official. Instead, she was labeled an “intelligence expert” and “CNN national security contributor.”
There really is no other way to force the media into doing their jobs (short of creating a government office to oversee the entire news industry), than a retooled Fairness Doctrine.
Were a new Doctrine in force, they wouldn't even try to recyle Bush officials in this manner.
November 19th, 2008 at 7:35 amHuckabuck's on C-Span, calling his own book prophetic!
The call-ins are bound to be lively.
November 19th, 2008 at 7:38 amMike Huckabee is a right wing lunatic, so let's hope he and Sarah Palin join forces for 2012! We can call them the American Taliban Ticket.
November 19th, 2008 at 7:46 amToo lazy? Or just couldn't find a non-partisan expert? Let's try a third explanation: Townsend was chosen to be the expert because Ms Arena (and CNN) knew what her answer would be. That's why they pay Townsend. You have to stop thinking that CNN is any different from FoxNoise....it's just a hair more subtle sometimes, that's all.
November 19th, 2008 at 7:47 am#18 Tim Vaculik Says:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
O.K., which of the following would you folks consider to be torture?
4, 5 and 6 are torture. 1, 2 and 3 are assault crimes under US law. do you have another stupid point to make!
November 19th, 2008 at 8:03 am#178 Fred Says:
You forgot to mention the pro-lifers that have bombed clinics and shot and killed doctors is the name of their christian fundamentalism.
Tim is just a simple minded crap disturber.
November 19th, 2008 at 8:08 amWow, that is a shocking omission. Let's face it, Francis Townsend has been an official spokesman for torture. You couldn't get a less neutral opinion outside Dick Cheney's office.
November 19th, 2008 at 8:37 amWell, I know dick Cheney hasn't been waterboarded.
November 19th, 2008 at 9:07 amTim Vaculik Says:
November 19th, 2008 at 9:09 amIt always comes down to , girly men won't torture nah nah real men get their nuts off cause they love torture. I noticed you never once answered why it was we prosecuted Japanese for it because we called it torture but when we do it just enhanced interrogation
The Obama Adminstration is going to continue this dark, dark road.
November 19th, 2008 at 9:16 amThe character of this transition team is in keeping with the real intentions of the incoming Obama administration: the continued occupation of Iraq by tens of thousands of US troops and a sharp escalation of the ongoing colonial war in Afghanistan.
The same picture emerges with the transition team at the Central Intelligence Agency. According to published reports, the leading figure in that effort is John Brennan, who headed up what is now known as the National Counter-Terrorism Center and previously served as CIA deputy executive director and former CIA Director George Tenet’s chief of staff. He left the agency in 2005.
It must be assumed that Brennan, a senior operator in the so-called global war on terrorism, was intimately familiar with and involved in decisions to carry out torture, assassinations, extraordinary rendition and domestic spying that were implemented during his tenure at the CIA.
November 19th, 2008 at 9:21 amTimmeh,
Would you torture Jesus?
November 19th, 2008 at 9:49 amAnd since Jesue knows of the end times, he knows of a plot that will end the whole of the world. So, ergo, he needs to be tortured...to get the "REAL story" out of him. Not this leftist claptrap of loving each other blah, blah. We need to know the times, dates and actions of this plot to end the world. What re you gonna use a bomb, a death ray? God Damn it Jesus tell us....
-To be continued-
November 19th, 2008 at 9:51 amGWB sure would torture Jesus if it meant the continuation of his damn Bogus "War on Terror".
November 19th, 2008 at 10:11 amWhat waterboarding feels like.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:48 amYou're as bad as timmy the troll. What a foolish and self-serving lie.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:50 amTim V says:
Well, I will not address the issues already fully, and appreciably, discussed already. I will ask, rhetorically, how Christain fundamentalism and Zionism is NOT in the same category as:
"Islamic extremists are RELIGIOUS extremists. They do the things they do because they believe (correctly I think) that their religion directs them to do so."
(and, yes, murders upon murders, as well as all sorts of other atrocities commited in the name of these religions -- in fact, Christianity is easily argualbly the number one greatest cause of human suffering and death in the history of humanity).
But I do want to point out that little Timmy made a patently false statement (probably heard it on Rush). U.S. soldiers are NOT subjected to waterboarding as a part of training. Sorry, try again. The fact that you are one of the great armchair warriors who believes in agressive military action, yet is too scared to actually go fight (just like Bush and Cheney) is patently evident in such a statement. Not even in escape and evasion exercises (where Psyops get to practice field interrogations) does any soldier get waterboarded, because IT IS NOT ALLOWED. Psyops do not get waterboarded, nor do the Rangers, the green berets, nor any other group of US soldiers as a course of regular training.
Do not lie about the US military as it greatly disrespects the soldiers and the veterans, all of whom you rely on to protect you and your country.
Tim -- you are good at asking questions (mostly based on a variety of logical fallacies), but you are short on answering questions from others. You are not holding a discourse, and are not supporting your arguments. In particualr you do not continue dicussions that others try to have with you -- you simply avoid that and ask more ridiculous questions.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:56 am"...waterboarding isn’t even torture as it is normally defined..." And you would know this from first-hand experience? How do you "normally define" torture? Do you use the "Alberto Gonzalez" protocol? Or, do you use the "John Yoo" concordat? How about the "Dick 'pull their toenails out' Cheney" methodolgy? Obviously, you don't understand Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention!!
BTW, General McArthur executed Japanese officers who used water-boarding on American and Philipino POW's during WW2.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:57 amOne is one too many.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:58 amGol durn librul!
November 19th, 2008 at 11:01 amSee my previous post: McArthur executed several Japanese officers for waterboarding US and Philipino POWs during the Japanese occupation of the Philipines.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:01 amThree that we know of.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:02 amTim, have you ever heard of the "Crusades"?
November 19th, 2008 at 11:13 am"The answer is we subjected THREE terrirists to waterboarding. Three. Three and you ninnys think the sky is falling!"
Aren't the right always yapping about the dangers of moral realitivism????
November 19th, 2008 at 11:20 amAfter Obama gave his fawning speech in front of AIPAC I said myself he sold himself to the Israeli Lobby. Our reckless foreign policy is being coninued by Obama -- just look who he chose for as his chief of staff, Emmanuel. (another Zionist).
November 19th, 2008 at 11:21 amI know it's more complicated than I can say here. But, our civilian economy is crushed by our booming economy.
oops.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:22 amI know it’s more complicated than I can say here. But, our civilian economy is crushed by our booming military economy.
Kay, you lost credibility when you claim that Obama will continue the torturing........sorry.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:36 amObama lost credibility when he voted for the FISA Amendment Act of 2008, chose Biden as his running mate, Rahm Emmanuel as his chief of staff, continued to vote for funding for Iraq. Hence morphing from a once left of center candidate (anti-war) to establishment Clintonesque political figure.
Obamamania will run out of gas circa June '09.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:02 pmTorture is morally repugnant and anyone saying otherwise will not be accepted into the Kingdom of Heaven. It is that simple. There is no grey area here at all. Once that slippery slope is stepped upon, all is lost and there is no turning back. The attacks on our country were horrific, but not so much so that we need to turn away from the very basic idea of individual liberty which we were founded on.
Once torture is decided upon, all who participate are tainted for life. That stain will not wash out.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:12 pmTim Vaculik Says:
1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.
2. Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.
3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.
4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.
5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.
6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner’s face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.
Well, Timmy, and all other apologists who claim that these acts are definetely not torture and that these acts extract actionable and accurate intelligence, don't you then believe that these should all be methods used by civil law enforcement then? If they are not torture and they produce quality information and confessions of guilt, then would it not be a good idea to allow the police to use them on suspects? And, particularly, on those who are assosciated with suspects (though not suspects themselves)? That, by your claim, would be effective in stopping many crimes (to include many murders). Should not the police be able to use any or all of these methods on YOU if they beleive that you may have done something wrong or may have knowledge about someone who has done something wrong? We don't even need to change other procedures, as you can be held without charges for 48 hours.
Perhaps you do feel that would be o.k.. If so, you are much more like Saddam and Bin Laden than a true American.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:53 pmFrances Townsend indicated her availability to work for the Obama administration:
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/spytalk/2008/11/fran-townsend-comes-to-eric-ho.html
November 19th, 2008 at 5:55 pmCageyCretin,
"...But I do want to point out that little Timmy made a patently false statement (probably heard it on Rush). U.S. soldiers are NOT subjected to waterboarding as a part of training."
Maybe I stated it incorrectly as any number in the military HAVE been subjected to waterboarding. Perhaps I mis-heard the interview and it is done voluntarily. All I know is that it IS used for training.
Just ask some Special Forces guys.
November 19th, 2008 at 8:19 pmHi Tim Vaculik.
November 19th, 2008 at 8:32 pmI know you were asked by someone but I must have missed the response. Why did we think it torture when the Japanese were into it?
Tim Vaculik Says:
You made several FLAT OUT FALSE STATEMENTS. It has been noted several times that WE considered waterboarding tortue and a war crime when we prosecuted Japanese officers for doing it to OUR soldiers. Also when we prosecuted OUR soldiers for being involved in it during Vietnam. The PENTAGON study said DIRECTLy that Islamc groups hate us for our POLICIES and that it is a blatantly self serving statemnt to say they hate us for our freedoms yet you tell us we are naive unless we understand they just hate us and it has nothing to do with what we do. I think it axiomatic that the Pentagon knows a lot more about this than YOU DO. You are spewing propaganda. Weak propaganda and the only thing you continually demostrate is that you never know what you are talking about.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:00 pmWell, I have no doubt that Islamists hate us for our policies among other reasons, but the the key point is that they are NOT going to stop hating us just because we change a few policies!
Get it? This isn't hard to grasp folks. REad your history - hell, I'd be happy if some of you could even correctly recall RECENT history with regards to the Islamic Terrorist threat.
Perhaps if you lefties could stop bashing your own country long enough to do a little rational thinking, you would see the truth.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:36 pmdbadass,
There is absolutely no comparison between our limited use of enhanced interrogation techniques and what the Japanese did during WWII. Nobody with a shred of decency could compare what we have done with what they did.
Period.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:41 pmHi Tim:
November 19th, 2008 at 10:43 pmMight I refer you to number 209?
Did any of you read Zawahiri's statement directed at our new President today?
Since it didn't come from the Middle East Media Research Institute, perhaps the deniers here will actually believe what he said as reported.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:45 pmdbadass,
... and your point is, what?
November 19th, 2008 at 10:47 pmOnly that a moral compass always points consistently in the same direction
November 19th, 2008 at 10:50 pmoh and as to 221. Blow me. I just did.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:51 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Well, I have no doubt that Islamists hate us for our policies among other reasons, but the the key point is that they are NOT going to stop hating us just because we change a few policies!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ya just get stupider and stupider Timmeh. No amount of facts or logic will get in the way of your delusional fantasies. Fundamental extermists and terrorists are a huge problem and we arent going reach them but we can MARGINALIZE THEM if we stop doing stupid things like say invading countries that have nothing to do with current terrorism. How many Muslims did we radicalize when we overthrew the first Isamic democracy in the middle east the wildly popular Mohamed Mossedegh? Did that cause more problems than it brought benfits? If we stop doing STUPID things like that it can help. Insane terrorists like Ben Laden NEED their comunities and the support of reasonable Muslims like fish need a sea to swim in. We can dry that up if we stop the stupid policies that radicalize otherwise moderate and reasonable Muslims. AND if we call out MORONS like you that keep wanting to make it about Islam and the Koran. We dont have to make this into a Holy war and your rhetoric makes it seem like that is EXACTLY what we want.
Get it? This isn’t hard to grasp folks. REad your history - hell, I’d be happy if some of you could even correctly recall RECENT history with regards to the Islamic Terrorist threat.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
You wouldnt know rational thinking if it slept with your wife you insufferable moron. Perhaps if you brainwashed rightwing psychophants didnt worship at the alter of chanting our NAME instead of trying to assure each administration follows the VALUES good people associate with our country we could stop some of the STUPID foriegn policy fiascos that do us more harm than good. Now I said good people because you arent one of them. You have no decency and dont CARE if we conform to American values or not only what is good for YOU. Since you are a bone ignorant piece of garbage I dont expect you to understand the difference between who we are as a nation and what this or that administration sometimes does. There is of course a HUGE difference. Bush is not America. You are too stupid to see that which is why you are such a useful idiot to the rightwing screechmonkeys that do your thinking for your. You just repeat whatever talking point is assigned you like us lefties bash our country because we bash Bush. I mean its really dumb and only the most brainwashed and stupid sheeple could possibly take it seriously but that YOU Timmeh. Arent you proud?
November 19th, 2008 at 11:27 pmTim Vaculik Says:
dbadass,
There is absolutely no comparison between our limited use of enhanced interrogation techniques and what the Japanese did during WWII. Nobody with a shred of decency could compare what we have done with what they did.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Did you REALLY think that if you post something as unquestionably STUPID as you did in this post with conviction then wrote period it would magically become true? You need help Timmeh. Seek the help of a mental health professional immediatly. You are always going to be stupid but you dont have to be completely insane.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:38 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Did any of you read Zawahiri’s statement directed at our new President today?
Since it didn’t come from the Middle East Media Research Institute, perhaps the deniers here will actually believe what he said as reported.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Perhaps you are brainwashed enough to think we ought to listen to al Queda terrorist as if he SHOULD be able to effect OUR political process. Catch him, kill him, jail him. The only thing he has to say that has ANY meaning to me is GUILTY. Until he is standing in front of a judge if he lives that long, I dont CARE what he has to say and only a shameless appologist would use anything he says in any way in the context of OUR policies.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:44 pmYes Eugenedebs,
This is PROOF POSITIVE tha timmeh and those like him/her/it are traitors and need to be sniffed out and then snuffed out by the neck.
Arrest, Try and Hang the Traitors, Bush, Cheney and those that materially supported them.
November 20th, 2008 at 12:28 amTim Vaculik Says:
Just ask some Special Forces guys.
Timmy: I AM a special forces guy. I am speaking from experience. You are just repeating what another non-military partizan political pundit told you. Perhaps some CIA personell can volunteer for such training, but it is not standard (or optional) fare in the services (standard or special forces). It sounds hard-core (STRC), and very cinematic to imagine, but it is simply not the case.
November 20th, 2008 at 8:41 amCageyCretin,
Well, then the military guy I heard with my own ears is liar, right?
Thank you for your service and I mean that sincerely.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:15 pm