GM execs give up some private jets after embarassing hearing.
By on Nov 21st, 2008 at 4:15 pm
GM execs give up some private jets after embarassing hearing.
Earlier this week, Big Three automaker CEOs were ridiculed by members of Congress for taking private jets to Washington to plea for a federal bailout. Today, ABC reports that GM is putting two of its five corporate jets out of service allegedy “in response to the planes not being used” and not a reaction to the harsh treatment from Congress. Watch Rep. Gary Ackerman (D-NY) criticize the auto execs:
Despite the downsizing, GM CEO Richard Wagoner “will still fly private for all business and personal travel” for “security reasons,” ABC notes.
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That's nice...for now.
So have the Republicans given up their smug attitudes to keep the good will going?
Or would that be the ultimate Christmas miracle?
November 21st, 2008 at 4:20 pmDespite the downsizing, GM CEO Richard Wagoner “will still fly private for all business and personal travel” for “security reasons...”
He wouldn't want Michael Moore getting close enough to talk to him. ;)
November 21st, 2008 at 4:20 pmJust what exactly is the security threat these poor bastards are subject to?
November 21st, 2008 at 4:21 pmi still say this story takes away from the REAL story of losing jobs and breaking the unions...
and private jets don't even come close to the obscene CEO salaries that need eliminated...
November 21st, 2008 at 4:23 pmWhat security reasons? If they want the American taxpayers help, they better deep-six ALL their corporate jets. If the rest of us can fly commercial, so can they. OR, they can buy their own small personal jets out of the millions and millions of dollars they've been paid. Better yet, let them conduct their meetings via video.
November 21st, 2008 at 4:23 pmSecurity = 100+ people on a regular plane identifying them and going loco on them
November 21st, 2008 at 4:23 pmOOf course, big auto CEO's made a mistake of flying private jets to D.C. Does anyone recall a recent event where private planes littered the runway for an important political event? Picture time!
Rep. Brad Sherman should be highly educated about the reasons "important people" fly private jets. His intern shuttled DNC dignitaries from their private planes at Denver International to ground transportation.
And how did Brad arrive at the DNC? His intern is shown standing next to John Kerry's private plane, but no shots of Brad's mode of transporation. I'm sure the folks at TP can dig up the answer.
Enough leaders ground big auto execs into the sidewalk for their flying preferences to make it look like an orchestrated theme. The question is who they want to pay, the corporate chiefs or the labor unions. As they move toward a deal, the details will point to the target of their shoe grinding.
November 21st, 2008 at 4:24 pmOut of service does not mean sold, or that they'll not be using them in the near future (like after they get that loan!). These, like almost all CEOs across the board are totally out of touch with anyone resembling the old 'rank and file'.
November 21st, 2008 at 4:25 pmWhat amazes me is that these jerks still defend their exorbitant compensation packages. They believe that they are entitled to them. It's time to re-write the rules about what's an acceptable use of corporate funds. Corporations are artificial entities created on paper. The rules can be written anyway we want. They have no constitutional right to make so much money, and they need to change their thinking if they think they do. (They act like they think they do.)
November 21st, 2008 at 4:29 pmZooey Says: Despite the downsizing, GM CEO Richard Wagoner “will still fly private for all business and personal travel” for “security reasons…”
He wouldn’t want Michael Moore getting close enough to talk to him. ;)
- - As someone who HAS worked and sat next to Micahel Moore for several days, I'd have to say in this case Wagoner would have a good point. Moore's a good guy but emits an unfavorable "aura."
November 21st, 2008 at 4:34 pmsecurity reasons?
wtf is that about?
November 21st, 2008 at 4:35 pmSecurity reasons??? If this guy has managed to p!ss so many people off that he fears for his safety, perhaps he's not the guy who should be in charge. Or is that too simple a concept for the GM board to understand?
November 21st, 2008 at 4:39 pmthere are two letter Rs in "embarrassing"
November 21st, 2008 at 4:41 pmWhat security reasons, really? I somehow doubt anyone on the plane would recognize him in the first place, let alone attack him.
I must be missing all the news reports about Detroit CEOs that have secret blueprints that are being taken out by spy operatives.
November 21st, 2008 at 4:46 pmstateofthedivision Says
November 21st, 2008 at 4:24 pm
OOf course, big auto CEO’s made a mistake of flying private jets to D.C. Does anyone recall a recent event where private planes littered the runway for an important political event?
________________________________________________________
I think you may be missing the point. Nobody is saying that people shouldn't travel by private jet (even though an argument could be made about fuel consumption). What some people find galling is that these guys traveled by private jet to Washington to tell Congress that they need money and that they have really, really cut back on operating expenses.
If any of these execs were flying their own personal jet and paying for it out of their own pocket, that wouldn't raise any complaints.
If these three guys had even bothered to "jet-pool" together (they WERE coming from approximately the same place, after all), that would have been an improvement. If they flown commercial -- even if they went first-class -- that would have been better yet.
But when they exhibit such obscene excess for their own comfort and convenience while asking for handouts, a reasonable person might ask what the handout is going to be used for. It's like a woman driving her Rolls Royce and stepping out of it in her mink coat to go apply for welfare. Most people would find that disturbing, and question her ability to manage her finances.
Furthermore, Kerry is operating his own plane (well, most likely his wife's), and he's not asking for any taxpayer handouts. There's a difference.
November 21st, 2008 at 4:51 pmToo little. Too late. Too expensive. Too polluting. Too outta' touch. Too much bad urban planning. Too much crap we don't need.
November 21st, 2008 at 5:09 pmYeah sure. Security reasons, huh? I seem to remember that Bush destroyed the Constitution based on our security. He invaded Iraq based on our security. He gave away $3.2 trillion to Wall Street to help with our economic security. Bush spies on me, for my own security. Bush looks at my medical records, for my own security.
Heck, why not have a munti-millionaire fly around at $3000 per hour. Its just the standard GOP tactic: Good for me, not for thee.
November 21st, 2008 at 5:11 pmNo wonder these idiots have no idea what cars America wants and needs. Like Bush, they never leave their bubbles.
This is in no way about personal security. We're talking about maximum personal comfort. First class is secure enough for movie stars, politicians (past and present), many captains of industry and big time pro athletes. It's certainly secure enough for anybody in Wagoner's position. Fer crissakes, I could trip over Wagoner and his pals and not recognize them.
If circulating among the great-unwashed masses is such a major threat to these guys' security, they need to seriously re-examine their business practices. Better yet, the Big Three need to find new GMs.
-AF
Andrew Sullivan Is A Fraud
November 21st, 2008 at 5:11 pmAs far as I can tell, there should be a ton more hearings before any money is granted.
Couldn't they at least agree to share one damn plane to get to DC?
November 21st, 2008 at 5:20 pmWhen you factor in the burdened hourly cost of corporate execs, and some are a burden, it's more cost effective to fly them either through a corporate flight department or a fractional ownership. HP for example flys a corporate airline from KSJC (San Jose) to KLHM (Lincoln, CA) for admins, execs et. al.
Bet your bippy if any of the Big Three dump their corporate aircraft, they'll buy into fractional ownership so they don't own nor lease the aircraft they fly but still incur the cost.
November 21st, 2008 at 5:29 pmPerhaps they could drive to DC next time if they wish to make a point.
November 21st, 2008 at 5:29 pmMiss Hussein Molly, thank you for your points. They are well made.
I still have questions. Why do people who regularly fly in private jets vilify others doing likewise on national television? Is it part of a theme? If so, who do they want to get with the predictable negative public reaction?
I still don't know how Brad Sherman travelled to the DNC. That's another question in my mind.
November 21st, 2008 at 5:30 pmpaleolib Says
November 21st, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Perhaps they could drive to DC next time if they wish to make a point.
_____________________________________________________________
Especially if they drive a high-mileage car (surely Detroit makes those?) and if they carpool.
November 21st, 2008 at 5:32 pmPerhaps they could drive to DC next time if they wish to make a point.
---
November 21st, 2008 at 5:33 pmIn a Japanese made hybrid
Folks, something's funny. Yes, the private jet thing is galling. And it's one great reason not to approve a stinking cent for those rich auto execs.
But the reason for not acting quickly is Congress' need for a plan showing future viability. Wall Street and the financial sector got $700 billion without such consideration. Many of the recipients of TARP money are tanking. Why? The street doesn't know how they will make money in the future.
I know our Congress is not known for being consistent and they love to transfer public anger to a ready scapegoat, but something more may be going on. If they break one or more of the big three auto makers, who will suffer? It could be a back door way to bust union power.
November 21st, 2008 at 5:37 pmThey can't even position their sacrifice of their extra jets properly! They completely blow even the slightest opportunity to improve their public image by showing they're both capable of change and willing to make concessions.
Wagoner & friends get all petulant and say "we're bagging our private jets not because you busted our cajones. We're getting rid of these jets only 'cuz we don't use them. The timing is purely coincidental."
It would've been a far more effective gesture towards Congress and taxpayers to say "You know you're right. This is piggy. We top execs must tighten our belts too. As the first step of many, we're selling X amount of our jets and putting the money back into our companies. Now how's 'bout a little help here."
Idiots.
-AF
Andrew Sullivan Is A Fraud
November 21st, 2008 at 5:41 pmThe sad fact is that they had to be embarrassed into doing so. The AIG people are still feeding at the trough of our tax dollars.
In the total picture, these expenses are a drop in the bucket - we're talking millions -- the bail out is billions.
But the appearances are important - these rich bas-tards don't think their sh!t stinks -- it never occurs to them that they are being ostentatious, that they are being careless and cavalier -- they have played too long at their game. They need to come down and be forced to work for a living.
November 21st, 2008 at 5:42 pmGM CEO + using private jets for security reasons = BS
And who pray tell want to harm or attack the GM CEO: Al Queda? Does all of the CEOs in every corporation, large or small in corporate America own their own corporate jet for security reasons? I don't think so.
GM CEO is blowing smoke. He simply doesn't to give up his toys in order to help his company from going under and preventing more employee layoffs.
November 21st, 2008 at 5:48 pmMaybe they can get Sarah Palin to help them sell the jets on eBay.
November 21st, 2008 at 5:54 pmHeh. Security...?
They were probably afraid of being recognized --- and tarred and feathered by enraged American taxpayers.
November 21st, 2008 at 5:55 pmMake them all drive GEO Metros
November 21st, 2008 at 6:49 pmSo, they only retire the jets AFTER they were called on it.
November 21st, 2008 at 7:18 pmTypical.
I'll bet the Big Three are republicons, which makes giving up their corporate jets a token gesture.
Token gesture = gopee platform
November 21st, 2008 at 8:15 pmstateofthedivision Says
November 21st, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Why do people who regularly fly in private jets vilify others doing likewise on national television? Is it part of a theme? If so, who do they want to get with the predictable negative public reaction?
____________________________________________________________
I'm not sure that Ackerman uses a private jet to get around -- I'm really not sure what mode of transportation he uses. And even if he DID use a private jet, I don't know who pays for it. As far as I know, the only member of the House who gets a private jet at taxpayer expense is Nancy Pelosi, and she's already been raked over the coals because Murtha asked for a bigger jet for her than Hastert got (she didn't get it).
But let's pretend that Ackerman gets around in a private jet, and he's vilifying the Big Three CEOs for the same. There's a difference. Ackerman would be paying for his own jet, and he's not looking for a taxpayer handout.
If Ackerman is flying around in a jet that he isn't paying for, then a lobbyist or somebody else is paying for it. And that's a whole 'nother matter. But I'm going to wait for evidence before making accusations.
Now, all that said -- it's offensive to many that CEOs with private jets are coming to Washington for handouts and claiming they are cutting expenses to the bone (as Judge Judy would say, "do I have STUPID written on my forehead?"). However, I believe there are many factors that are going into the decision of whether or not to give money to the automakers, and CEO transportation isn't the biggest one.
November 21st, 2008 at 8:28 pmI can't understand why the shareholders aren't calling for the heads of these guys! Getting rid of the bonehead CEOs would be a significant gesture of good will that shows they are ready to change and compete in the new energy economy.
November 21st, 2008 at 8:34 pmOf course, the airlines are also in trouble. Shouldn't these execs help out their fellow industry by flying business class ? They want help but won't help out others.
But of course, then the execs would have to wait in long screening lines and be restricted on the amount of liquids they could carry on the plane. Definitely not something someone of their tender nature should have to endure.
November 21st, 2008 at 9:24 pmI can't resist wondering why they didn't pool in with Diddy? Wasn't he getting some kind of fuel deal?!? :)
November 21st, 2008 at 9:35 pmOy Vay.
Give me a break on the jets. If the big three can't use a private jet, who can? That's not the issue. Maybe they should fly coach. So what. What should we do about the state of the US auto industry overall. (We can take away the jets later.)
November 21st, 2008 at 9:41 pmAs usual, 99% of you posting here are either totally clueless or just having your daily bout with class warfare verbal Diarrhea.
I just read your comments and wonder where you people come from, what kind of education you had, what your parents taught you and where you get your information (if indeed you actually seek out knowledge of the real world.)
Pathetic.
November 21st, 2008 at 9:49 pmThe most chilling Marxist comment award goes to Wayne at #9.
Good GOD, man! Are you for real? How can any sane thinking person make such statements???
November 21st, 2008 at 9:52 pmThe truth is, it doesn't matter what you dolts think. God help us if any of you are ever in a position to run anything.
November 21st, 2008 at 9:55 pmFederal Bailout... a crime scene as big as 9/11!
November 21st, 2008 at 10:59 pmRichard Wagoner should do a few weeks on the assembly line at the same pay as the other workers. He might learn something or he might continue to be the bloated bag of greed and entitlement that he is today.
November 22nd, 2008 at 12:14 amPerhaps they could have Turkey Girl Palin sell those jets on eBay.
November 22nd, 2008 at 12:15 amTim Vaculik Says:
As usual, 99% of you posting here are either totally clueless or just having your daily bout with class warfare verbal Diarrhea.
I just read your comments and wonder where you people come from, what kind of education you had, what your parents taught you and where you get your information (if indeed you actually seek out knowledge of the real world.)
Pathetic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Are we really getting this idiocy from the most ignorant uninformed piece of garbage poster on this site. You are a moron Timmeh. The word stupid is far too tame to encompass the totality of your intellectual inferiority. Graphic diarrhea, not verbal you imbecile we arent talking vocally here is your stock and trade. No one here posts the volume of garbage or blatant stupidity that you do. So what YOU think of our posts really doesnt mean much to normal human beings you loaf
November 22nd, 2008 at 12:18 amTim Vaculik Says:
The most chilling Marxist comment award goes to Wayne at #9.
Good GOD, man! Are you for real? How can any sane thinking person make such statements???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The most ignorant and cluelessly stupid comment of the day goes to Timmeh as usual. A moron so incredibly ignorant he thinks that even after TANKING their industries telling the top three uppper management they are overpaid is somehow Marxist. Obviously our betters by dint of GETTING THE JOB it doesnt matter in the LEAST how incompetent they are at it to even discuss that they are overpaid is just beyond the pale. Admit it Timmeh. You are really a leftwinger here trying to make rightwingnuts look ignorant beyond all comprehension. Its either that or you are SO brainwashed you carry water for powerful interests by reflex. What a fool you are.
November 22nd, 2008 at 12:22 amTim Vaculik Says:
The truth is, it doesn’t matter what you dolts think. God help us if any of you are ever in a position to run anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It would be a whole lot better than YOu being in charge of ANYTHING. You are the most ignorant, brainwashed, moronic piece of stupid to ever come down the pike
November 22nd, 2008 at 12:23 amWere there any Republicans who praised these CEO's for "living the American dream", and for ignoring the "socialist, liberal, gay marriage loving bastards?".
November 22nd, 2008 at 1:39 amThese auto executives could buy a lot more credibility with the public (at least the dumb as a stump crowd...which is a lot of people) if they had celebrity valets to escort them around Washington.
Then the story wouldn't be them, but the female stars on their arms. Never underestimate the stupidity of the public. The GOP almost got away with it with Palin. And "The View" and "Oprah" hug these celebrities like instant ratings and ATM machines.
If Mary Hart could ask the First Family-elect inane questions, she's meant to chatter with the Ford's about when we should expect the first 18 karat gold Ford Focus interior.
November 22nd, 2008 at 2:32 amIronically, Richard wouldn't even have "security reasons" if he hadn't gotten the private jet in the first place. Wherever you need to be Richard, email seems to work just fine for me, get your unworthy sociopathic feet back on the ground.
November 22nd, 2008 at 6:53 amIn the 70's I worked for Mobil Oil at the Mobil Bldg in mid-town. When the gas shortage hit, the top guys put all of the limos up on blocks. They really didn't need to stand in line for gas and a dozen limos didn’t make a difference. But the message was sent that everyone has to make a sacrifice.
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:53 amgee, that must be rough!! having to fly only ONE jet? mean while i don't have enough money to fix my 91 honda, and you know what, no matter what we think, congress will ask questions but the auto guys and wall street will get their money and the rest of us are screwed, capitalism works so well
November 22nd, 2008 at 2:13 pm