Would Bush pre-emptively pardon Rumsfeld?
Would Bush pre-emptively pardon Rumsfeld?
The Wall Street Journal reported that the White House is “isn’t inclined to grant sweeping pardons” for former officials involved in its torture program. ThinkProgress wondered whether former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was seeking a pardon anyway, but a person close to him, who requested anonymity, vehemently dismissed such speculation:
Are you serious? You’ve now officialy [sic] spent too much time among the fevered minds of the Kossacks and ThinkProgress crowd … It’s good to know that the election of Obama hasn’t dampened the delusionary fantasies of the far left.
Considering that he personally approved the use of torture against al Qaeda suspects, Rumsfeld is certainly putting a lot of faith into the torture memos that the White House believes make blanket pardons “unnecessary.”
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Didn’t old Rummy have to flee France for war crimes??
http://www.alternet.org/story/66425/
I mean Bush can pardon all he wants to it isn’t going to make a war crimes tribunal car any more or any less. I suppose they’ll have to get used to staying in the US.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:12 pmBush wasn’t inclined to sign a $700 billion rescue plan, which morphed into a $5 trillion big money boy bailout.
His inclination means nothing in “unprecendented” times. He’ll look after his friends and rich donors.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:14 pmThe angry response reminds me of something Ghandi said. Something like, “first they mock you, then they hate you, then they lose to you.”
November 25th, 2008 at 12:22 pmAre you serious? You’ve now officialy [sic] spent too much time among the fevered minds of the Kossacks and ThinkProgress crowd … It’s good to know that the election of Obama hasn’t dampened the delusionary fantasies of the far left.
So, the horrid treatment of wounded veterans that is finnaly getting reported and war crimes ordered by Bush and Rummy are the product of “fevered minds”?
Funny, I may be liberal for social issues, but I have always been fairly middle of the road on everything else. I am far from “far left”, unless you are comparing me to the fascist hitlerites in the Republican Party.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:24 pm“… the delusionary fantasies of the far left?”
Interesting observation. When those of us who have questioned overt violations of US statutes, our treaty obligations and the Law of Land Warfare raise these issues, we are the ‘delusional’ ones?
I think not. It’s patently obvious—to any reasonable observer—who is delusional here. The larger question is actually why so few care about these issues?
November 25th, 2008 at 12:30 pmWow…that response suggests that Rummy is scared Cheney-less that he’s going to be indicted. Lets hope its true and lets hope it happens on January 21 when Bush is safely hiding in Paraguay.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:32 pmIt’s good to know however that the election of Obama has dampened the delusionary fantasies of the far right…..
November 25th, 2008 at 12:32 pmLove the attack from the anonymous source. So typcical- no balls.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:36 pmIf Bush pardons somebody, they lose their fifth amendment right to self-incrimination (since they can no longer be sent to jail for what they say) and can thus be forced to testify against others. If you’ve been paying any attention to Washington over the last 15 years, you may have noticed that almost nobody gets convicted for what they did, but they usually get convicted for lying under oath about what they did. And pardons don’t cover something you do after the pardon is granted. Also, it’s almost impossible to consistently keep a secret in today’s hyper-media age. Which means a pardoned person put on the stand would be putting themselves in great danger by not ratting out everybody else.
Whether or not to pardon anybody this close to the top of the administration is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t, situation.
Unless he just pardons everybody in the Executive branch all at once, which I wouldn’t put past him.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:42 pmThey won’t issue pardons unless there are charges and investigations.
Scooter Libby? You betcha.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:43 pmRumsfeld? Not unless the dead-ass dims get after the feculent Phuque…
How about if we throw Rumsfeld off the roof and see if Bush screwed up gravity too?
November 25th, 2008 at 12:49 pmOh – and Rummy? DROP DEAD, you evil old barstid!!!
November 25th, 2008 at 12:53 pmJeebus, Rummy sure is an arrogant, hateful, sociopathic SOB, ain’t he??
Yeah, boy, I sure am delusional because I want to see the perpetrators of TORTURE prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
It’s only bad, horrible, unacceptable war-worthy torture when evil dictators like Saddam Hussein do it — but, hoo-boy, we Amurkins are totally justified in using torture to protect Amurka!!
Yeah, I’m delusional, all right. My bad.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:53 pmfar left = a lable for anything that is true and typically a root cause of a serious issue affecting the nation, but that the mainstream media and politicians don’t have the courage to discuss and face directly.
I can’t think of any other definition.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:55 pm666lattes Says:
far left = a lable for anything that is true and typically a root cause of a serious issue affecting the nation, but that the mainstream media and politicians don’t have the courage to discuss and face directly.
I can’t think of any other definition.
How about, “far left = anyone not neocon”
November 25th, 2008 at 12:57 pmWhether Obama persues this torture matter or not, the freedom of information act will be put back in place and interested parties will be able to persue it…..
I know tokin liberal……obama’s just like bush and we won’t get the freedom of information act restored, right?
I’m not so pesimistic. I believe enough light will be allowed to shine on these crimes that something will be done.
November 25th, 2008 at 1:06 pmIt’s not known if he’ll be an unknown or known pardon, but it is known that others know he knew ahead of time to know better than to torture.
November 25th, 2008 at 1:07 pmtokin librul Says:
They won’t issue pardons unless there are charges and investigations.
Bush will be out of office by then. Preemptive pardons happen all the time, Ford’s pardon of Nixon being the most infamous example.
November 25th, 2008 at 1:13 pmStep back and understand that all of the offensive pardons are going to be issued *secretly*
Whenever a secretly pardoned official finds him/herself in legal jeopardy, they’ll whip out a pardon letter.
You see, the Constitutional power of the President to pardon is absolute – and not reviewable by Congress, Supreme Court, no one.
The whole “pardon attorney” setup at DOJ is efficient for outsiders seeking pardons — but entirely unnecessary, and not a Constitutional requirement. Bush could route some pardons through the pardon attorney while saving some for his own consolidated review and signature.
Think about it.
November 25th, 2008 at 1:14 pmBush will pardon, for all practical purposes, his entire administration, including Dick Cheney. But before his administration actually ends, he will resign, allowing Cheney to succeed him, simply for the purpose of pardoning Bush himself.
November 25th, 2008 at 1:22 pmThe perpetrators of the horrendous crime spree known as the Bush Presidency would never take the chance they would be prosecuted for an impressive list of felonies, including fraud and criminal negligence causing great loss of life.
By the way, it can’t possibly be true that a presidential pardon is unreviewable and cannot be questioned. There is no such thing as absolute power in the United States, a government based on the idea that governments forever remain on a revocable probation. A simply hypothetical example could be devised that would dispose of this silly idea.
Why would Bush pardon anyone in his administration?
Haven’t they told already us, all these years, time and again, that they have done nothing wrong?
They didn’t torture, didn’t detain anyone illegally, didn’t illegally listened in on the conversations by private US citizens or by the heads of allied nations, didn’t invade and occupy a country against international law, didn’t grant no-bid contracts to enrich their cronies….
See? There is nothing to pardon.
Silly libs
/sarc off
November 25th, 2008 at 1:33 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
I thought you could only be pardoned for a crime you had been charged with.
Read up on Ford’s pardon of Nixon….
November 25th, 2008 at 1:36 pmI believe we will see a number of 11th hour, 59th minute pardons by Boosch, and I’m sure Rumpy will be one of them.
November 25th, 2008 at 1:41 pmImpeach Rumsfeld, along with Cheney, Rove, Libby, and Gonzo. It doesn’t matter whether they are in office now, since part of the penalty is a permanent bar from holding office in the government again.
After January 20, the House and Senate can decide whether to proceed or let the matters drop.
November 25th, 2008 at 1:43 pm. . . and under Art II, Sec. 2, Cl. 1, they can’t be pardoned.
November 25th, 2008 at 1:48 pmCitiDC Says:
Step back and understand that all of the offensive pardons are going to be issued *secretly*
I wouldn’t put that past them either.
However, the whole “secret Presidential action” thing is itself iffy in court. The question of exactly when a power is exercised would need to be addressed – does the President do X when he signs a piece of paper, or when it’s announced/presented that he did so?
If you allow that, it could be a forgery. Anybody could produce “secret Bush pardons” for the next fifty years, and if there’s no public record of who he pardoned, you’d have to take them all at face value. Or none of them.
November 25th, 2008 at 1:54 pmI heard that members of the Bush administration have had charges filed against them several times in Europe. The judges keep dismissing the cases because there is not sufficient evidence that they can not be brought to justice in the U.S. Since pardons would provide incontrovertible evidence that they cannot be prosecuted for their crimes by their own country, the pardons would seemingly make them vulnerable for prosecution in foreign courts.
November 25th, 2008 at 1:57 pmRummy is a wanted man in many countries and he will be stolen in the night and tried for his crimes. He didn’t get enough money from that fake flu medication they put out. It was a smooth move as Rummy invested 5000 dollars and the Govenment put the fake stuff on the market which Rummy cashed in his shares and got 5 million dollars. The old man did good.
November 25th, 2008 at 6:32 pmAnd what crime would the boy Bush be pre-emptively pardoning Rumsfeld for? Wouldn’t the boy Bush need to name a crime in order to pardon? Is this pre-emptive pardon kind of confession where the priest pardons the penitent of all their sins?
November 25th, 2008 at 7:11 pmWayne – I’m not sure that Bush pardoning Rumsfeld pre-emptively would be the same as Ford pardoning Nixon. Richard Nixon was a Congressional vote away from being impeached. Articles/charges were already in place and waiting for a vote from Congress when Nixon resigned. He could have still face criminal charges when Ford pardoned him. There are no charges or articles against Rumsfeld at this time. Ford pardoned Nixon after Nixon left office. I’m not convinced that Bush can pardon Rumsfeld in the absence of charges.
November 25th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
PARDONS MAY BE UNNECESSARY
The Military Commissions Act of 2006 already insulated all Americans from War Crimes prosecutions, criminal or civil.
Thank you Congress….
:P
November 25th, 2008 at 8:27 pm