Turley: By Refusing To Pardon Torture Officials, Bush Is Allowing Democrats To Repair His Legacy
Turley: By Refusing To Pardon Torture Officials, Bush Is Allowing Democrats To Repair His Legacy
Last night on MSNBC Rachel Maddow highlighted a report from the Wall Street Journal that said that President Bush is unlikely to pardon any officials involved in engineering or executing the Bush administration’s torture program. According to the Wall Street Journal report, the White House believes that the Justice Department’s torture memos give the officials all the legal cover they need.
Maddow’s guest, constitutional legal scholar Jonathan Turley, said that he also believes that Bush is unlikely to pardon his torture officials, but for reasons that have little to do with the torture memos:
TURLEY: What the administration is doing is they know that the people that want him to pardon our torture program is primarily the Democrats, not the Republicans. The Democratic leadership would love to have a pardon so they could go to their supporters and say, “Look, there’s really nothing we could do.”
Well, the Bush administration is calling their bluff. They know that the Democratic leadership will not allow criminal investigations or indictments.
Turley explained that without the pardons, Bush is clearing the way for Democrats to repair the president’s torture legacy. Bush will be “able to say there’s nothing stopping indictments or prosecutions but a Democratic Congress and a Democratic White House didn’t think there was any basis for it,” Turley said. Watch it:
But not all of the Bush administration’s torture critics are on the same page. Jack Goldsmith, the individual responsible for withdrawing the torture memos and author of the Terror Presidency, penned an op-ed in today’s Washington Post entitled, “No New Torture Probes.” Goldsmith argues today that rather than initiating criminal investigations or even a bipartisan truth commission, the next administration should simply let the current torture investigations conclude and release their findings:
[The current] investigations were politically necessary, and the Obama administration should let them continue. When they are complete, the administration should disclose the facts and documents (including legal opinions) that can be made public without jeopardizing national security.
He explains that in his view the “danger now is that lawyers will become excessively cautious in giving advice and will substitute predictions of political palatability for careful legal judgment.”
As Goldsmith notes, many of the facts related to who engineered Bush’s torture programs are already public. Whether or not Congress initiates new investigations, Bush will likely remain the torture president.
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Let the Democrats come in and amend Bush’s atrocious record on torture. Let us decide if we will authorize the continuation of investigations and ensure that these crooks do not just receive a mere pardon, but a probe into their actions on torture policy that will satisfy reasonable Americans.
Transparency needs to re-enter government.
November 26th, 2008 at 1:34 pmDemocrats in Washington learned the wrong lesson from Kenneth Starr and the following impeachment proceedings against Clinton. The American people rallied behind Clinton because they perceived him to be a man unjustly hounded over nothing.
Torture is more like Watergate: a serious transgression of the law.
The American people *would* support an effort along the lines of Watergate. A full and impartial investigation followed with any appropriate sentencing for those found guilty of crimes.
Grr! Democrats!
November 26th, 2008 at 1:40 pmYeah, I saw Turley say that, and I must say I agree with him.
LIEberman got a pass and so will this criminal administration.
¶ AIO
November 26th, 2008 at 1:42 pmLet’s not reach conclusions. The Democratic leadership could decide to launch a lower-scale investigation, because I don’t think they would want to risk tarnishing their reputation in Washington. Obama took a strong stance on transparency, and I trust that he’ll hold enough sway over the party to ensure that those responsible for Bush’s terror policies receive a swift kick from the law.
Plain and simple. Let’s see what happens.
November 26th, 2008 at 1:42 pmYou might think this is in favor of the Republican criminals but what ever the case it leaves a clear case of guilt for the United Nations. Remember these crimes were done against innocent people for other countries. We have held and tortured kids as well as tortured and raped woman.
November 26th, 2008 at 1:43 pmObama took a strong stance on transparency, and I trust that he’ll hold enough sway over the party to ensure that those responsible for Bush’s terror policies receive a swift kick from the law.
Comment by SwedishSkinjer
No way; my money says Obama plays ‘nice’.
¶ AIO
November 26th, 2008 at 1:51 pmFrom what I’ve seen, there are two directions this could take. Obama could certainly play “nice” with the pardons he may or may not issue, but I also know that it’s plausible when I hear someone say he could take a more aggressive stance to satisfy Americans more opposed to the war and unnecessary terror policies.
November 26th, 2008 at 1:57 pmI think everyone needs to go over to change.gov and tell Obama that your vision for this country is one that honors the rule of law and doesn’t torture. But also one where people are held accountable for their illegal actions.
November 26th, 2008 at 2:01 pmHere’s what I wrote at change.gov
November 26th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
So Dinkledorf is relying on the gutless Dems not to pursue any legal action against him. That is a good bet. He, or somebody, knows what they are doing.
November 26th, 2008 at 2:18 pmJust because Bush doesn’t pardon them doesn’t mean that we can’t still prosecute them.
The new Congress and President should make it a priority to bring to justice those who are accountable for tarnishing the image of this great nation and putting all Americans at risk for kidnapping and torture in retaliation for the torture performed on terrorist suspects.
November 26th, 2008 at 2:19 pmI still want them all to go to trial, they are WAR CRIMINALS and deserve to be treated as such….
….but PRESIDENT Obama has his hands full with the Economy right now and probably doesn’t need the distraction….
….but still they need to be brought to justice.
November 26th, 2008 at 2:24 pmStrategically, the Democrats should not start any investigations during the Bush Administration because this could and almost certainly would trigger pardons.
Politically, the priorities right now should be to turn around the policies of the Bush Administration and fix the problems created by those policies – from torture to deregulation.
That said, I hope that there are investigations, indictments, and incarcerations (triple I, if you will) in the next year or so.
November 26th, 2008 at 2:25 pmBuckie Boy Says:
I still want them all to go to trial, they are WAR CRIMINALS and deserve to be treated as such….
….but PRESIDENT Obama has his hands full with the Economy right now and probably doesn’t need the distraction….
That’s why I like the idea of a commission to look into crimes that were broken. And I don’t think that he will appoint a “toothless” commission looking to exonerate anyone. That way Obama doesn’t have to take time away from fixing the financial mess and then when the Commission lays out the crimes that were committed, “we the people” can demand that they be prosecuted. That will give Obama cover so that the Republicans can’t scream “Partisan Politics” or “Partisan Witch-Hunt”.
November 26th, 2008 at 2:30 pmIt is hard to imagine this conversation in a civilized world.
November 26th, 2008 at 2:31 pm.
What’s the difference between a CON man and a Statesman?
I tell ya, it ain’t lipstick or a a pig… But instead, a spine!
.
November 26th, 2008 at 2:44 pmWe need a Truth and Reconciliation Committee to investigate the many crimes and misdemeanors of the Bush Administration, from top to bottom. From pre-9/11 incompetence to lying our way into Iraq to Hurricane Katrina to politicizing the judiciary to …. all of it needs to be examined and those who are responsible for failure need to be brought to account, including bringing criminal charges against them if necessary.
The only way to move forward is for us to acknowledge the failures of the past and learn from them, and to help the average American citizen understand just how much damage has been done to the country that we love.
November 26th, 2008 at 2:46 pmTurley is spot on:The dems are too chicken to investigate anything Bush has done criminally,remember the esteem Pelosi & others in the Dem leadership were aware of renditions of many innocent peoples & said not a word.The crimes are there but the Dems can’t afford to embarras their leadership in congress.I say F-it & let the chips fall where they would but it ain’t gonna happen folks.We have a very corrupt Govt no better than any Banana Republic.
November 26th, 2008 at 2:52 pmThose that ordered and participated in torture should be investigated and prosecuted for any deranged wingnut’s perceived idea we seek “revenge” but for the restoration of Rule of Law in this country and to repair the badly damaged reputation of this country around the world. We are now seen as hypocrites in the eyes of the World because of the Bush Administration’s actions and War Crimes.
Hopefully Obama will not take the “we must move on” attitude that happened after Watergate and Iran/Contra. If that happens again, then the same people behind the monstrosity of the Bush Administration will be back the next time this country is stupid enough to elect a Republican President again.
November 26th, 2008 at 2:58 pmTurleys last sentence says it all: …Democratic leadership will not allow criminal investigations or indictments. There are only four reasons Reid and Pelosi want this behind them, and they’re not mutually exclusive. 1) Open US Congress & the gang of 8 to more ridicule for caving to BushCo., 2) Time consuming, costly, 3) Cause rift in US populous (those who support the Government no matter what vs those who want the rule of law to prevail) and 4) CYA.
Obama, via his unnamed advisers, seem to favor #3, not caring that failure to investigate and prosecute, where warranted, will cause irremediable damage to the Republic, the rule of law, and our standing in the world.
Unless his background in community organizing, government reform and lecturing in Constitutional law in Chicago was lip service to greater political heights (how high can he go) he would know he must insist on the rule of law. Maybe he’s playing down this sad episode until he feels the timing right to appoint a special prosecutor over some overt law breaking and let follow on prosecutions stem from picking the low fruit.
Future press release: Our future as a beacon of freedom and the resounding demand of our Citizens require an immediate appointment of a Special Prosecutor to investigate and bring to justice, those who failed in their duty to uphold their oath of office, the rule of law and the Constitution of the United States of America….
Yeh, right!
November 26th, 2008 at 2:58 pmBah, I should preview before posting:
November 26th, 2008 at 3:00 pmThose that ordered and participated in torture should be investigated and prosecuted NOT for any deranged wingnut’s perceived idea we seek “revenge” but for the restoration of Rule of Law in this country
Another thought or two: If the spineless leaders of the Democrat party don’t want to risk their ‘reputations’ on investigation and prosecution of criminal activity, then the citizens of the U.S. should petition the United Nations for action.
November 26th, 2008 at 3:03 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
That will give Obama cover so that the Republicans can’t scream “Partisan Politics” or “Partisan Witch-Hunt”.
A Special Prosecutor can accomplish that as well. The 9/11 Commission and other previous “Commissions” do not leave me alot of hope that that route would be effective and not used as just another political coverup tool.
November 26th, 2008 at 3:04 pmceltic cynic Says:
Another thought or two: If the spineless leaders of the Democrat party don’t want to risk their ‘reputations’ on investigation and prosecution of criminal activity, then the citizens of the U.S. should petition the United Nations for action.
Pelosi should be sentenced to being slammed though an “Impeachment Table” by a “roid wrestler on live television for her covering for Bushco. ( much as I ridicule “pro wrestling” heh ) IMHO =)
November 26th, 2008 at 3:09 pmGuido the Loving OBGYN Says:
Rove WOULD have been indicted except for a fluke. At a party his lawyer heard some gossip talked to Rove and Rove went back to Fitz and ‘amended’ his testimony saying he had gone over his notes and saw that he misremembered things. He did this the night before indictments came down at the eleventh hour and THAT is the only reason he WASNT sitting right next to Scooter at a trial. The Grand Jury term was about to expire and it was too late for any further deliberations. Rove got lucky
November 26th, 2008 at 3:41 pmThats because Nancy Pelosi and other democrats knew about the torture, pretty well from the start, so any investigation would likely high light this point, so there will be no investigations.
November 26th, 2008 at 3:48 pmhttp://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/29285
November 26th, 2008 at 3:50 pmOf course he’s letting other people do the heavy lifting for him… it’s the story of his life.
November 26th, 2008 at 4:33 pmBush seems to be the master at escaping justice for his immense crimes. Whoever can bring him to justice finally will be a world hero.
November 26th, 2008 at 5:01 pmIt’s official, Bush did not lie us into war and order torture, Bill Clinton did not have sex with that woman, Reagan did not have anything to do with Iran-Contra, Nixon did not order the Watergate break-in, etc, etc, etc. “If the president does it, that means it is not illegal.” So, relax, Obama, you can do nothing wrong, you will never be punished for anything you do in office. House republicans, FORGET ABOUT EVEN THINKING ABOUT TRYING TO IMPEACH HIM.
November 26th, 2008 at 9:33 pmIt is likely that the united states government will never prosecute anyone for these crimes for various political reasons.
The best alternative thing for President Obama to do would be to join the International Criminal Court in the Hague, to promise to coorperate with that court and to hold a commission to make public the secret internal documents of the Bush administration pertaining to these torture practices. And then sit back and wait for the indictments to start rolling in.
The ICC’s jurisdiction would not be affected by any American presidential pardons anyway.
November 27th, 2008 at 2:11 amIgnore matters of national security, the only security that has ever been protected is the security of the administration from criminal procecution.
November 27th, 2008 at 8:31 am32. The only thing wrong about that is that the GOP will conjure up a faux scandal to impeach Obama with…
November 27th, 2008 at 10:10 pm>>Turley: By Refusing To Pardon Torture Officials, Bush Is Allowing Democrats To Repair His Legacy<<
I don’t think this headline has anything to do with motivation for Bush to decline to pardon officials in his administration behind the torture policy. W wants them in the fire with him defending the administration’s past practices. Without a pardon, they have no choice but to fight to the last man. It’s like Cortez burning the boat on the shore at Vera Cruz. There will not be life raft for Bushies from W.
We need a truth commission to sift through the mountain of illegal acts compiling a historical records of the heinousness that was the Bush Administration.
November 28th, 2008 at 10:15 am